SWTOR Marauder DPS Class Guide

A guide to SWTOR Marauder Annihilation, Carnage, Rage and Hybrid specs for PvE. Written and edited by Invinc and Vindrik of Harbinger.

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Overview

The Marauder is one of the most commonly played classes; since launch it has always been one of the best dps classes, with access to the best group dps buff and the best group mobility buff in the game. Add this to incredibly good defensive cooldowns, a high potential for burst while still maintaining decent consistent damage, as well as relatively simple gameplay, and you can begin to understand why the Marauder is such a popular choice. A mediocre Marauder is often better than, or just as good as, decent players from other, more difficult classes, however although the basics for the Marauder are easy to grasp, the skill ceiling for those wanting to achieve excellency is still very high. Marauder have 4 viable raiding specs, each with different advantages over the others:

  1. Annihilation’s entire rotation depends on dots, Annihilator buffs and Juyo form stacks. It has a slower build up time than the other specs, but once it gets going deals excellent sustained damage over time. Generally speaking, Annihilation is best for movement heavy fights with a high boss uptime.
  2. The Carnage rotation cycles around Gore windows, focusing on exploiting the 100% armor penetration that it grants to deal devastating burst damage with its hardest hitting abilities, and using decent fillers until the next Gore becomes available. RNG is generally not a factor, but can occasionally play against you.
  3. Rage has the lowest overall single target dps of the 3 specs, however its AoE capabilities far exceed the others, utilising incredibly hard-hitting Smashes, and brainless Rage management, its normally used more as a fun spec than a serious spec.
  4. The Hybrid Rage spec is the newest of the Marauder’s options, using a combination of Rage and Annihilation talents to focus on buffing Smash and applying dots, making it both very reliable and powerful.

Offensive Cooldowns:

  1. Bloodthirst: Grants all ops members within 40 meters a 15% increase to all damage and healing done. Requires and consumes 30 stacks of Fury.
  2. Berserk: Activates a unique bonus with 6 charges, based on your lightsaber form. Requires and consumes 30 stacks of Fury. With the 4 piece set bonus, also increases all damage done by 4% for 15 seconds.
  • Juyo Form: Your bleed effects have a 100% chance to critically hit. Each critical hit from a bleed consumes a charge.
  • Ataru Form: 30% increased Alacrity. Each charge is consumed on using an ability.
  • Shii-Cho Form: Each charge generates 2 Rage every 0.5 seconds (12 Rage over 3 seconds). Also immediately grants 3 stacks of Shockwave.

Defensive Cooldowns:

  1. Predation: Grants all ops members within 40 meters a 50% increase to movement speed (80% if specced as Carnage) and increases their melee and ranged defense by 10%. Requires and consumes 30 stacks of Fury.
  2. Cloak of Pain: Reduce all damage taken by 20% and reciprocate a small amount of damage to the enemy when attacked. Lasts 6 seconds, but refreshes with each hit taken, up to a total length of 30 seconds.
  3. Saber Ward: Increase your melee and ranged Defense chance by 50%, and reduce all Force and Tech damage taken by 25%.
  4. Undying Rage: Reduces all damage taken by 99% for a few seconds. When the effect ends, you lose half your current HP.
  5. Force Camouflage: Reduces your threat, as well as reducing damage taken by 50% and increasing movement speed by 30%.
  • Annihilation: Increased duration, movement speed bonus increased to 40%.
  • Carnage: Breaks all movement impairing effects upon activation.

Tricks of the Trade:

  1. Intimidating Roar: 6 second AoE incapacitate
  2. Frenzy: Immediately gain 30 stacks of Fury
  3. Obfuscate: Reduce your target’s melee and ranged Accuracy by 90%
  4. Brooding (Talent): Builds up to 30 Fury while using Channel Hatred

Annihilation

Annihilation (36 / 8 / 2 ) http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/marauder#122132322102212203320-3230-2

swtor-annihilation-marauder-dps-class-guide-build

1.1 Rates (1-10):


  • Single Target Dps: 9
  • AoE Damage: 4
  • Group Utility: 9
  • Rotation Difficulty: 7
  • RNG Dependant: No
  • Burst: 6
  • Sub 30% Talent or Ability Buffs: Yes

1.2 Gearing & Stats Priority:


  • **Must Have** Accuracy: 110% Force – 100% melee (1% from companion + 3% from talent = 6% from Gear)
  • **Must Have** 0 Alacrity
  • 68-74% Surge
  • 0-250 Critical Rating
  • All other secondary stats in Power
  • **Must Have** Augments: Strength (Might)
  • Relics: Serendipitous Assault & Focused Retribution
  • Alternate Relic: Boundless Ages
  • Set Bonus: 4 piece Weaponmaster’s
  • Juyo Form

1.3 Gearing Overview:


  • Reaching the Accuracy cap should be your highest priority
  • The dps bonus given by Alacrity rating is low enough that, even with the high amount of diminishing returns it will suffer, Surge rating will always be better. Also, considering that your resource pool does not regenerate over time, that aspect of Alacrity is wasted.
  • The difference in overall dps between 0 Critical rating and 120 Critical rating is minimal, but having any in general will negatively affect your overall dps, so avoiding it wherever possible is suggested
  • Choice of relics should be made on a fight-to-fight basis. Serendipitous Assault and Focused Retribution will give you a greater overall damage increase, while Boundless Ages will allow you to focus your burst into a short window for fights with tight burn phases
  • Getting your set bonus as quickly as possible is highly recommended. It will increase your dps substantially enough that having lower item level armorings with the set bonus is still a better option than higher item level armorings without it.

1.4 Ability Explanation:


  • Berserk (Juyo Form) gives you 6 charges which cause your dots to have a 100% critical hit chance, and each crit additionally heals your group for 1% of their max HP.
  • Deadly Saber is your most important ability, as it is the hardest hitting dot in your rotation, and constitutes a significant portion of your overall damage. The dot lasts for 6 seconds and stacks up to 3 times, and it’s activation doesn’t respect the GCD so it’s usually paired with Force Charge, as these abilities have an equal CD and synergise well together. Using as many Berserk charges with 3 stacks of this dot active is a considerable dps increase, however it can be difficult to micromanage, and delaying the use of Rupture during a berserk window is never recommended. It is a affected by a variety of talents:
    1. Juyo Mastery: Has a 3% increased critical hit chance per stack of Juyo Form (18% at max stacks)
    2. Hungering: Critical hits heal you for 1% of your max HP
    3. Bleedout: Increases Critical damage dealt by 30%
    4. Agonizing Sabers: Applying a bleed effect reduces the target’s damage dealt by 5%
    5. Hemorrhage: Increases damage dealt by 6% and has a 30% chance to generate 1 Rage each tick, with an internal CD of 1.5 seconds
    6. Bloodlust: Your direct damage critical hits on bleeding targets generate 1 Rage
    7. Short Fuse: Increases the amount of Fury built by 2
  • Rupture is your second most important dot, and using this ability on CD is a must, however you should not clip the dot when it procs. Keeping this dot up as much as possible is a dps increase, however as noted, when it procs you should wait until your previous Rupture has expired before activating it again. It is affected by a variety of talents:
    1. Juyo Mastery: Has a 3% increased critical hit chance per stack of Juyo Form (18% at max stacks)
    2. Hungering: Critical hits from the dot heal you for 1% of your max HP
    3. Bleedout: Increases Critical damage dealt by the dot component by 30%
    4. Deep Wound: Increases the direct damage component by 30%
    5. Agonizing Sabers: Applying a bleed effect reduces the target’s damage dealt by 5%
    6. Hemorrhage: Increases damage dealt by the dot component by 6% and has a 30% chance to generate 1 Rage each tick, with an internal CD of 1.5 seconds
    7. Bloodlust: Your direct damage critical hits on bleeding targets generate 1 Rage
    8. Dual Wield Mastery: Offhand lightsaber damage is increased by 36%
    9. Short Fuse: Increases the amount of Fury built by 2
  • Annihilate is another very important ability in your rotation. It is the hardest hitting single ability you have, but also has a high cost, and early in the rotation has a relatively long CD. The Annihilator buff will reduce this CD incrementally up to to 4 stacks, so there is a significant amount of setup time, but once you have all 4 stacks, being able to Annihilate faster will lead to higher damage, but larger Rage consumption. Keeping this buff up is absolutely necessary, even if that means hitting immune targets or random mobs during transitions, because having to rebuild your stacks will lower your damage output significantly. Annihilate also has a chance to refresh the CD of Rupture, so these two abilities usually work very well together. It is most common to use Rupture first to gain the full advantage of this talent, however Annihilate shouldn’t be delayed for this. It is affected by a variety of talents:
    1. Pulverize: Has a 66% chance to refresh the CD of Rupture, with a 6 second internal CD
    2. Short Fuse: Increases the amount of Fury built by 2
    3. Enraged Slash: Refunds 1 Rage when used
    4. Dual Wield Mastery: Offhand lightsaber damage is increased by 36%
    5. Indefatigable Onslaught: Annihilator now stacks up to 4 times
  • Force Charge in Annihilation spec is the only time that this ability will be used regularly. It has no minimum range and generates additional Rage, making it an excellent method of Rage generation to replace Assaults. It is affected by several talents:
    1. Blurred Speed: Reduces the CD by 3 seconds
    2. Close Quarters: Reduces minimum range by 10 meters
    3. Enraged Charge: Generates 1 additional Rage
  • Vicious Throw is your sub 30% ability. When Rage and procs allow, you should be replacing Vicious Slash with Vicious Throw as often as possible since it does more dmg and has higher chance to proc Pulverize. It is affected by three talents     
    1. Pulverize: Has a 66% chance to refresh the CD of Rupture, with a 6 second internal CD
    2. Short Fuse: Increases the amount of Fury built by 2
    3. Enraged slash: 100% chance to refund 1 Rage
  • Ravage is another key part of your rotation, however it is not as important as it is in other specs. It still deals a high amount of damage, and it can be hard to fit into your rotation comfortably, but using it regularly is useful. It is normally used after Annihilate, when you have enough Rage that the next portion of your rotation won’t be delayed.
  • Dual Saber Throw is your preferred filler, as it deals significant damage without a Rage cost, making it the best option you have when Rage is not an issue. It is affected by one talent:
    1. Dual Wield Mastery: Offhand lightsaber damage is increased by 36%
  • Vicious Slash is the worst filler in your rotation and generally only has space to be used before you finish stacking Annihilator. It has a chance of refreshing the CD of Rupture, so it has some extra utility besides its mediocre damage, but it should still have a low priority. It can only be used when you have too much Rage and nothing to spend it on, but using Vicious Slash to drain Rage too quickly is a common mistake, as it can seriously delay your rotation. It is affected by several talents:
    1. Pulverize: Has a 33% chance to refresh the CD of Rupture, with a 6 second internal CD
    2. Dual Wield Mastery: Offhand lightsaber damage is increased by 36%
    3. Short Fuse: Increases the amount of Fury built by 2
    4. Enraged slash: 100% chance to refund 1 Rage
  • Battering Assault is your main Rage builder. You should use it on CD to ensure that you always have enough Rage for your rotation, and so that you never have to delay your more powerful abilities due to an unnecessary lack of Rage.
  • Assault is your secondary Rage building ability, and is used relatively frequently to keep your Rage high.

1.5 Ability Nomenclature and Rotation Priority:


  1. Deadly Saber: DS
  2. Rupture: RT
  3. Annihilate: AN
  4. Force Charge: Charge
  5. Vicious Throw: VT
  6. Ravage: RV
  7. Dual Saber Throw: DST
  8. Vicious Slash: VS
  9. Battering Assault: BA
  10. Assault

Offensive Cooldowns:

  1. Bloodthirst
  2. Berserk
  3. Frenzy

1.6 Opening Rotation:


Charge / DS + BA + RT + AN + RV + RT (proc) + DST + Charge / DS + VS + Assault + AN + Once you get 30 Fury use Adrenal / Relic / Bloodthirst / Frenzy + Berserk

swtor-annihilation-marauder-dps-class-guide-opening-rotation

1.7 Rotation Strategy:


Annihilation’s rotation focuses around applying dots and slowly building up your stacks of Juyo Form and Annihilator. Annihilate’s CD starts off slow until you reach 4 stacks of Annihilator, at which point the cooldown is significantly decreased, and should be used on cooldown. Vicious Slash is generally only used as a filler ability between 0-3 stacks of Annihilator, as once you have such a short Annihilate CD, there is almost no room for any other fillers. Rupture should be used on CD since its one of your most powerful abilities, and both Vicious Slash and Annihilate have a chance to reset its cooldown. You should only re-apply Rupture once the previous Rupture dot has finished. Dual Saber Throw is your best filler ability, and as such should be used as close to its cooldown as possible. Deadly Saber doesn’t respect the GCD and has the same length CD as Force Charge (which can also be used while in melee range thanks to Close Quarters), so you should be using Force Charge on cooldown to generate Rage, and on that same GCD activating Deadly Saber. Battering Assault is your main Rage builder and should be used whenever it is available to maximise your Rage. Annihilation has a tendency to go through spikes of heavy Rage usage due to the costs of Annihilate and Rupture. As such, it is generally a good idea to try and keep your Rage as high as possible so that you don’t delay the use of these powerful abilities.

15-20 second rotation (10-14 GCDs, no opener). Full stacks of Annihilator and Juyo Form.

AN + RT + Charge + DS / BA + AN + RV + DST + AN + Charge + DS / Assault + RT + AN

swtor-annihilation-marauder-dps-class-guide-rotation

Video of rotation on training dummy

1.8 AoE Ability Priority:


  1. Dual Saber Throw
  2. Smash
  3. Sweeping Slash
  4. Single target abilities

1.9 Sample Parse Analysis:


swtor-annihilation-marauder-dps-class-guide-sample-parse

  • The highest section of your damage dealt is shared between your two hardest hitting abilities; Deadly Saber and Annihilate. Considering the numerous buffs that your dot effects have, the damage dealt by these abilities should generally be relatively close to one another, however Annihilate should be slightly ahead.
  • The second portion is accounted for by the dot component of Rupture, and Ravage. Although it seems as though Rupture deals less damage than your biggest two abilities, when you factor in its initial damage, it is actually on par with both of them, and as such accounts for a significant portion of your damage. Ravage, on the other hand, has nothing special about it besides its significant damage output, and using it as a filler should lead to it being in fourth place in a regular parse.
  • The third section is lead by Vicious Throw, as this ability becomes very important in the rotation once the target is below 30% HP, giving you a dps increase when used correctly. Having it deal too much damage, however, is generally a sign that you overused it and delayed your other abilities due to its Rage consumption. It should be followed by Rupture’s direct damage, despite its slight dependence on RNG.
  • The final section contains your weaker filler abilities, such as Vicious Slash, Dual Saber Throw, Assault, Force Charge and Battering Assault. Depending on your luck, Rage management, fight mechanics and other variables, the exact position of these abilities in a parse may vary. For example, fights with multiple adds can lead to a benefit for Dual Saber Throw. Although Vicious Slash will generally deal the most in this section, and Force Charge will generally deal the least, their precise damage is largely irrelevant. The most important note is that if your Vicious Slash or Assault damage is too high, this may be a sign of poor Rage management.

1.10 Tips and Tricks:


  • Sith Warrior resources work differently from all of the other classes, and it’s sometimes difficult to manage well and deal the best possible dps. The fact that you have extra Rage to spend when your important abilities are on CD doesn’t necessarily mean that you should be spending it all, or even any of it. If you have a total of 5 Rage and the next major section of your rotation requires 8, you are better off using a few GCDs immediately to generate the extra Rage that you need so that you can go directly into the next part of your rotation as soon as possible, rather than spending the Rage that you have and significantly delaying your higher priority abilities.
  • Both Juggernauts and Marauders have the best overall defensive cooldowns in the game for any class, so make sure you are using them to their greatest extent to avoid damage, or when you are required to off-tank to mitigate as much damage as possible. This could give your ops the valuable time it needs to possibly rez a fallen group member and continue the fight as per usual.
  • Although Ravage has a 3 second channel time, the damage that it deals does not actually require the full 3 seconds. One of the most important tricks for Warrior dps is to take advantage of the fact that while the animation takes 3 seconds to complete, the final tick of damage (there are 3 ticks of dmg and 6 hits in total – 3 main hand and 3 off hand),happens around the 2.5-2.8 second mark. Once you see that third hit in the combat text, regardless of whether the animation is done or not, you should use your next ability. Doing this, and practicing exactly when to stop the channel based on your personal latency, is an excellent way to maximise your damage output.
  • You can use Retaliation as a replacement filler in fights that have any mechanics that may trigger its usage, as it is useful to improve your burst dps due to being off the GCD.
  • Force Camouflage is an excellent threat drop, just like any vanish abilities from a stealth class, however this component of the ability only works if you are being targeted.
  • Once you know all your talents well enough and can reposition your hotkeys quickly, you can respec into Carnage for the Brooding talent, use Channel Hatred to generate 30 stacks of Fury, then quickly respec back and reset your hotkeys to have a full stack of Fury for use at the beginning of a fight. This is particularly useful for difficult fights, or those with an important burn phase at the beginning of the pull.
  • Predation’s increased Defense chance, in addition to the movement speed buff, is an excellent tool to help increase your tank’s mitigation during moments of heavy melee and ranged burst damage.
  • You will not gain stacks of Fury while you have any charges of Berserk active.
  • Undying Rage is an excellent tool to help avoid lethal damage. It is often used while at exceedingly low HP to try and survive for as long as possible, however if you are about to take lethal damage, even if you are only at half HP, you are better off using Undying Rage to mitigate as much damage as possible, even if it means that it will cost you a greater amount of HP at the end of the effect
  • Cloak of Pain is not only your best overall damage reduction cooldown, but it also deals a moderate amount of damage to the enemy that hits you. As such, using it during phases where you will are consistently hit by the boss or by ticks of AoE damage will increase both its duration and your dps.

Carnage

Carnage (7 / 36 / 3 ) http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/marauder#200320-1233022210221212023230-3

swtor-carnage-marauder-dps-class-guide-build

2.1 Rates (1-10):


  • Single Target Dps: 9
  • AoE Damage: 8
  • Group Utility: 8
  • Rotation Difficulty: 8
  • RNG Dependant: Yes
  • Burst: 10
  • Sub 30% Talent or Ability Buffs: Yes

2.2 Gearing & Stats Priority:


  • **Must Have** Accuracy: 110% Force & 100% melee (1% from companion + 3% from talent + 3% from Ataru Form = 3% from Gear)
  • **Must Have** 0 Alacrity
  • 68-74% Surge
  • **Must Have** 0-60 Critical Rating
  • All other secondary stats in Power
  • **Must Have** Augments: Strength (Might)
  • Relics: Serendipitous Assault & Focused Retribution
  • Alternate Relic: Boundless Ages
  • Set Bonus: 4 piece Weaponmaster’s
  • Ataru Form

2.3 Gearing Overview:


  • Reaching the Accuracy cap should be your highest priority
  • The dps bonus given by Alacrity rating is low enough that, even with the high amount of diminishing returns it will suffer, Surge rating will always be better. Also, considering that your resource pool does not regenerate over time, that aspect of Alacrity is wasted.
  • The difference in overall dps between 0 Critical rating and 60 Critical rating is minimal, but having any in general will negatively affect your overall dps, so avoiding it wherever possible is suggested
  • Choice of relics should be made on a fight-to-fight basis. Serendipitous Assault and Focused Retribution will give you a greater overall damage increase, while Boundless Ages will allow you to focus your burst into a short window for fights with tight burn phases
  • Getting your set bonus as quickly as possible is highly recommended. It will increase your dps substantially enough that having lower item level armorings with the set bonus is still a better option than higher item level armorings without it.

2.4 Ability Explanation:


  • Berserk (Ataru Form) grants significantly increased Alacrity for 6 abilities (Gore doesn’t use a charge). This ability isn’t very complicated; using it regularly is necessary, and using it during Gore windows will increase your dps even more, as it allows you to fit another ability into the Gore window. This allows you to get up to 4 abilities in a single Gore, or 3 with a Ravage.
  • Gore is your most important ability, as your whole rotation revolves around Gore windows. It has a relatively long CD, but your Ataru Form strikes have a chance of refreshing its cooldown every 20 seconds. This means you should always be mindful if intending to delay a Gore, as it can cause the proc to overlap with the ability and reduce your overall damage. Gore doesn’t respect the GCD and lasts 4.5 seconds (3 GCDs, or 4 with Berserk), however due to this you can use Vicious Throw or Dual Saber Throw before activating Gore, and due to their travel time will allow you to fit another ability into the Gore. Getting the timing right on these abilities is an important part of maximising your dps, however a poor connection can make this exceedingly difficult. It is affected by one talent:
    1. Slaughter: Ataru Form strikes have a 45% chance to refresh the CD of Gore. Can occur every 20 seconds.
  • Ravage is a hugely important part of your rotation, however it shouldn’t be used on CD, instead saving it to combine with Gore. You should never delay a Gore for a Ravage, and similarly you should never use Ravage outside a Gore window. It should always be the first ability used in a Gore window when it is available.
  • Vicious Throw is a key ability thanks to the Slaughter talent, which makes it a regular part of your rotation, and it simply becomes more frequently used when your target falls below 30% HP. Using it before Gore and timing its activation allows you to fit another ability into your Gore window, which is an important trick to master in order to maximise your dps. Keep in mind that although it is free with Slaughter, regular uses still cost Rage. It is affected by several talents:
    1. Enraged Slash: 100% chance to refund 1 Rage
    2. Slaughter: Ataru Form strikes have a 45% chance to refresh the CD of Vicious Throw, and make your next Vicious Throw free and usable on any target. Can occur every 20 seconds
    3. Short Fuse: Increases Fury built by 2
  • Force Scream is your most important filler during Gore windows, and its CD is rather conducive to doing so. However, if you happen to have Force Scream available and Gore will remain on CD for more than 6 seconds (no Slaughter proc available), you can use it outside of Gore windows at your own discretion, but keep in mind that you should be aiming to use Force Scream in every possible Gore window, buffed with your Execute proc. It is affected by a variety of talents:
    1. Execute: Ataru Form strikes have a 30% chance to make your next Force Scream deal 10% more damage
    2. Blood Frenzy: Generates 1 Rage when Execute is consumed
    3. Towering Rage: Execute makes Force Scream a guaranteed critical hit
    4. Rattling Voice: Reduce the CD by 3 seconds and Rage cost by 2
    5. Sever: Increases Critical damage dealt by 30%
    6. Short Fuse: Increases Fury built by 2
  • Dual Saber Throw is your free filler that is generally used to greatest effect during Gore windows. As previously explained, when AoE is not important, Dual Saber Throw can be used before activating Gore as an extra ability in your Gore window, maximising not only its own damage but your overall dps as well. It is free of cost, and should be kept on CD regularly due to its high damage output.
    1. Dual Wield Mastery: Increases damage dealt with offhand attacks by 36%
  • Rupture is a somewhat counterintuitive filler ability. It has a low cost and deals higher damage than Massacre as well as generating additional Fury, and if you spec into Hungering, it also heals you when the bleeds crit, giving your relics a chance to proc on a separate rate limit from your damaging abilities. Rupture should replace a Massacre in your rotation between Gores, but you should always try to maintain the Massacre buff in order to maximise Execute procs and Ataru Form strikes.
  • Massacre is your general filler ability, and totally replaces Vicious Slash, since it does higher damage and has more utility, at an equal cost. Using Massacre between Gores is necessary, not only because you don’t have much else to use but also to increase the proc rates of Ataru Form strikes, and subsequently Execute. It has a very low priority during Gore Windows, but should still take precedence over Battering Assault, Assault or Rupture. It is affected by a variety of talents:
    1. Enraged Slash: 100% chance to refund 1 Rage
    2. Sever: Increases Critical damage dealt by 30%
    3. Short Fuse: Increases Fury built by 2
    4. Dual Wield Mastery: Increases damage dealt with offhand attacks by 36%
  • Battering Assault is your main Rage builder, and using it regularly outside of Gore windows is necessary to keep your Rage high, so that you can deal as much damage as possible during Gore. It is affected by one talent:
    1. Enraged Assault: Reduces the CD by 3 seconds
  • Assault is your secondary Rage builder, but is used very frequently in this spec. Because Gore windows account for the vast majority of your dps, your main focus between these times is to ensure that you have enough Rage to do a full rotation during Gore. Used in combination with Massacre and Battering Assault, this is the core of your rotation between Gore uses.

2.5 Ability Nomenclature and Rotation Priority:


  1. Gore
  2. Ravage: RV
  3. Vicious Throw: VT
  4. Force Scream (proc): FS
  5. Dual Saber Throw: DST
  6. Rupture: RT
  7. Massacre: MS
  8. Battering Assault: BA
  9. Assault
  10. Force Charge (Close Gaps): Charge

Offensive Cooldowns:

  1. Bloodthirst
  2. Berserk
  3. Frenzy

2.6 Opening Rotation:


Pre-build Fury stacks + Charge / Berserk + BA / Frenzy + Bloodthirst / Adrenal / Relic + DST + Gore / MS + RV + Assault + VT / Gore (proc) + MS + FS + MS + BA + RT

swtor-carnage-marauder-dps-class-guide-opening-rotation

2.7 Rotation Strategy:


Carnage Marauders are the perfect combination of one of the most powerful burst rotations followed by decent filler abilities, making it an excellent spec for both burst and sustained dps. Gore should be used as close to on CD as possible, according to the abilities that you have available to use in conjunction with it. Gore lasts for 4.5 seconds and doesn’t respect the GCD, so it essentially lasts for 3 abilities, or 4 if you have Berserk activated. Ravage should only ever be used during a Gore window, and has top priority. Force Scream should only be used in conjunction with its proc, and should be your next priority after Ravage. Due to Slaughter procs, Vicious Throw is free and generates 1 Rage, and it will always proc with a Gore, so unless the Gore is a non-Berserk Ravage + Force Scream, it should always be used during the Gore window that it procs. Dual Saber Throw is your next filler during a Gore window, as it’s free and does better damage than Massacre. Massacre is your general all-purpose filler ability, as it will trigger Ataru Form strikes and Force Scream procs, as well as dealing decent damage. When Ravage, Force Scream, Vicious Throw and Dual Saber Throw are all on cooldown, Massacre is your final ability to use during a Gore window. The final ability in your rotation is Rupture, which you should only be using when Gore isn’t active, as a filler ability instead of a Massacre.

Gore Windows Priority:

  • Vicious Throw (Used before gore)
  • DST (Used Before Gore)
  • Rupture (Used Before Gore)
  • Force Scream (With Execute)
  • Ravage
  • Vicious Throw
  • DST
  • Massacre
  • Anything Else

Outside Gore Window Priority:

  • Massacre (Keep the Buff up)
  • Force Scream (if CD 6 seconds or more)
  • Battering Assault
  • Assault
  • Rupture (1-2 GCD Before Gore)
  • Vicious Throw (used right Before Gore)
  • DST (Used Right Before Gore)
  • Vicious Throw (under 30% Only replacing Massacre with buff up)

15-20 second rotation (10-14 GCDs, no opener). Considering 2 possible cases:

Above 30% HP, full ability rotation, opening with 5 Rage and 30 stacks of Fury:

Berserk / DST / Gore + RV + MS + FS (proc) + BA + Assault + RT + VT (proc) / Gore + MS + MS + FS (proc)

swtor-carnage-marauder-dps-class-guide-rotation-1

Below 30% HP, full ability rotation, opening with 7 Rage and 30 stacks of Fury:

Berserk / VT / Gore + RV + MS + FS (Proc) + BA + assault + RT + VT (proc) / Gore + MS + DST + FS (proc)

swtor-carnage-marauder-dps-class-guide-rotation-2

Video of rotation on training dummy

2.8 AoE Ability Priority:


  1. Gore + Dual Saber Throw / Sweeping Slash spam
  2. Smash
  3. Sweeping Slash

2.9 Sample Parse Analysis:


swtor-carnage-marauder-dps-class-guide-sample-parse

  • The first section is comprised of your two core abilities; Force Scream and Massacre. if you manage to get 100% crit chance on Force Scream it should always be in first place, however this is not always possible due to RNG. Regardless, these two should always top your parse.
  • The second portion contains Ravage, Ataru Form procs and Vicious Throw. Ravage damage is usually consistent due to its regularity, but depending on crit rates and the fight, it is possible for Ravage to take second place in your parse instead of third. Ataru Form procs are relatively variable due to RNG, however its damage in a normal parse should be floating in this area even though the specifics are rather variable. Vicious Throw is also slightly variable due to its increase when multiple targets are under 30% HP throughout a fight.
  • The third and final section consists of your other general filler abilities. Usually, Dual Saber Throw would be on top of this list, followed by Assault, Gore’s direct damage, Battering Assault, and both of Rupture’s damage components. The specifics for this section are not particularly important, and although increased damage on Dual Saber Throw generally indicates an overall dps increase, if any others exceed 6-7% of your overall damage, it should indicate that you are doing something wrong in your rotation.

2.10 Tips and Tricks


  • Sith Warrior resources work differently from all of the other classes, and it’s sometimes difficult to manage well and deal the best possible dps. The fact that you have extra Rage to spend when your important abilities are on CD doesn’t necessarily mean that you should be spending it all, or even any of it. If you have a total of 5 Rage and the next major section of your rotation requires 8, you are better off using a few GCDs immediately to generate the extra Rage that you need so that you can go directly into the next part of your rotation as soon as possible, rather than spending the Rage that you have and significantly delaying your higher priority abilities.
  • Both Juggernauts and Marauders have the best overall defensive cooldowns in the game for any class, so make sure you are using them to their greatest extent to avoid damage, or when you are required to off-tank to mitigate as much damage as possible. This could give your ops the valuable time it needs to possibly rez a fallen group member and continue the fight as per usual.
  • Although Ravage has a 3 second channel time, the damage that it deals does not actually require the full 3 seconds. One of the most important tricks for Warrior dps is to take advantage of the fact that while the animation takes 3 seconds to complete, the final tick of damage (there are 3 ticks of dmg and 6 hits in total – 3 main hand and 3 off hand), happens around the 2.5-2.8 second mark. Once you see that third hit in the combat text, regardless of whether the animation is done or not, you should use your next ability. Doing this, and practicing exactly when to stop the channel based on your personal latency, is an excellent way to maximise your damage output.
  • You can use Retaliation as a replacement filler in fights that have any mechanics that may trigger its usage, as it is useful to improve your burst dps due to being off the GCD.
  • Force Camouflage is an excellent threat drop, just like any vanish abilities from a stealth class, however this component of the ability only works if you are being targeted.
  • Predation’s increased Defense chance, in addition to the movement speed buff, is an excellent tool to help increase your tank’s mitigation during moments of heavy melee and ranged burst damage.
  • You will not gain stacks of Fury while you have any charges of Berserk active.
  • Undying Rage is an excellent tool to help avoid lethal damage. It is often used while at exceedingly low HP to try and survive for as long as possible, however if you are about to take lethal damage, even if you are only at half HP, you are better off using Undying Rage to mitigate as much damage as possible, even if it means that it will cost you a greater amount of HP at the end of the effect
  • Cloak of Pain is not only your best overall damage reduction cooldown, but it also deals a moderate amount of damage to the enemy that hits you. As such, using it during phases where you will are consistently hit by the boss or by ticks of AoE damage will increase both its duration and your dps.

Rage

Rage (5 / 5 / 36 ) http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/marauder#320-230-123231211322011022223

swtor-rage-marauder-dps-class-guide-build

3.1 Rates (1-10):


  • Single Target Dps: 5
  • AoE Damage: 10
  • Group Utility: 8
  • ● Rotation Difficulty: 3
  • ● RNG Dependant: No
  • ● Burst: 9
  • ● Sub 30% Talent or Ability Buffs: Yes

3.2 Gearing & Stats Priority:


  • **Must Have** Accuracy: 110% Force – 100% melee (1% from companion + 3% from talent = 6% from Gear)
  • **Must Have** 0 Alacrity
  • 83-89% Surge
  • **Must Have** 0-60 Critical Rating
  • All other secondary stats in Power
  • **Must Have** Augments: Strength (Might)
  • Relics: Serendipitous Assault & Focused Retribution
  • Alternate Relic: Boundless Ages
  • Set Bonus: 4 piece Weaponmaster’s
  • Shii-Cho Form

3.3 Gearing Overview:


  • Reaching the Accuracy cap should be your highest priority
  • The dps bonus given by Alacrity rating is low enough that, even with the high amount of diminishing returns it will suffer, Surge rating will always be better. Also, considering that your resource pool does not regenerate over time, that aspect of Alacrity is wasted.
  • The difference in overall dps between 0 Critical rating and 60 Critical rating is minimal, but having any in general will negatively affect your overall dps, so avoiding it at all costs is suggested
  • Choice of relics should be made on a fight-to-fight basis. Serendipitous Assault and Focused Retribution will give you a greater overall damage increase, while Boundless Ages will allow you to focus your burst into a short window for fights with tight burn phases
  • Getting your set bonus as quickly as possible is highly recommended. It will increase your dps substantially enough that having lower item level armorings with the set bonus is still a better option than higher item level armorings without it.

3.4 Ability Explanation:


  • Berserk (Shii-cho Form) grants 6 Rage and 3 stacks of Shockwave immediately, plus an additional 6 Rage over 3 seconds. It should be used regularly, and is a core part of your rotation. It is affected by one talent:
    1. Shockwave: Grants 3 stacks of Shockwave, increasing the damage dealt by and reducing the cost of your next Smash by 33.3% per stack
  • Smash is your hardest hitting ability in this spec, as it has significantly buffed damage as well as being a guaranteed crit. In addition, it gets a reduced CD from your ability use, is free, and your rotation cycles between reducing its CD and buffing it, so using it as soon as it’s available and fully buffed is necessary for maximum dps. It is affected by several talents:
    1. Decimate: Increases damage dealt by 20% and reduces CD by 3 seconds
    2. Cascading Power: Increases all damage dealt by 9% for 6 seconds
    3. Overpower: Assault, Battering Assault, Vicious Slash, Vicious Throw and Force Scream reduce the active CD by a second
    4. Short Fuse: Increases Fury built by 2
  • Force Crush is your second Smash buffing ability, but it also deals high damage itself, so using this ability during the Cascading Power window whenever possible is ideal. Its damage is spread over 3 seconds, dealing 3 ticks of equal damage followed by a larger instance after the final tick, so to properly capitalise on the Cascading Power buff, you have to use it immediately following Smash. If you are unable to use it in that window, you should delay it until Cascading Power has expired, as an ability such as Force Scream, Obliterate or Vicious Slash would gain significantly more benefit from this buff than a single tick of Force Crush. It is affected by two talents:
    1. Shockwave: Each instance of damage grants a stack of Shockwave, increasing the damage dealt by and reducing the cost of your next Smash by 33.3%. Stacks up to 3 times
    2. Gravity Manipulation: Reduces cost by 1
    3. Short Fuse: Increases Fury built by 2
  • Force Scream is one of your filler abilities. As with several others, it reduces the active CDs of Enrage, Obliterate and Smash, however Force Scream additionally gains a buff from your Obliterate and Force Charge that makes it free. As such, using this as your primary damage filler is a must, and it’s also an ideal ability to use during your Cascading Power window. It is affected by two talents:
    1. Overpower: Reduces the active CDs of Obliterate and Smash by 1 second
    2. Battle Cry: Obliterate and Force Charge make your next Force Scream free
    3. Short Fuse: Increases Fury built by 2
  • Obliterate is a core part of your rotation due to the significant buff it gives Smash, as well as dealing high damage and leaping towards the target. Keep in mind that this charge has the potential to get you killed in certain situations due to AoE or movement mechanics, so ensuring you use it at the right time is imperative. Just like Force Crush and Berserk, using this ability correctly and in synergy should always result in an Obliterate between each Smash. It is affected by a variety of talents:
    1. Decimate: Reduces the CD by 3 seconds
    2. Saber Strength: Increases damage dealt by 6%
    3. Dominate: Causes your next Smash to be a Critical hit
    4. Gravity Manipulation: Reduces cost by 1
    5. Battle Cry: Makes your next Force Scream free
    6. Force Jump: Can be used while immobilized
    7. Overpower: Assault, Battering Assault, Vicious Slash, Vicious Throw and Force Scream reduce the active CD by a second
    8. Short Fuse: Increases Fury built by 2
  • Vicious Throw is your sub 30% ability, and whenever this ability is available it should replace Vicious Slash. When available, it should also be your first priority to use during Cascading Power. It is affected by a variety of talents:
    1. Brutality: Increases Critical chance by 7.5%
    2. Overpower: Reduces the active CDs of Obliterate and Smash by 1 second
    3. Saber Strength: Increases damage dealt by 6%
    4. Enraged Slash: Refunds 1 Rage on use
    5. Short Fuse: Increases Fury built by 2
  • Ravage deals great damage, however it is of much less significance than for other specs. Using it during Cascading Power is a ideal, but you should use it as a general filler. Keep in mind that it won’t reduce the CD of your other abilities, but it generally fits well into your filler sections. Considering it is free of cost, the best uses for Ravage are either during Cascading Power, or during the Force Crush portion of your rotation, as you will have the least amount of Rage at this time, but during the Berserk portion will likely lead to you wasting a significant amount of Rage. If you happen to have Ravage available during the Berserk window, it is recommended you delay it until your next Cascading Power, however this is not an absolutely necessary decision. Ravage will gain the most benefit from Cascading Power out of all of your abilities.
  • Vicious Slash is the most important filler in this spec, as it reduces the CD of your most important abilities, as well as dealing improved damage. Spamming this ability as much as you can when everything else is on CD is necessary to reduce the time until your next Smash, however it will always be low on your priority list, and partially replaced by Vicious Throw when it becomes available. It is affected by a variety of talents:
    1. Brutality: Increases Critical chance by 7.5%
    2. Overpower: Reduces the active CDs of Obliterate and Smash by 1 second
    3. Saber Strength: Increases damage dealt by 6%
    4. Force Lash: Deals additional Force damage
    5. Enraged Slash: Refunds 1 Rage on use
    6. Short Fuse: Increases Fury built by 2
  • Rupture is a standard filler ability, however it has a very limited field of use. Overall, a Rupture would do more damage than a Vicious Slash, however it has no extra utility. The best way to maximize your damage is using Rupture as Smash is less than 1.5 seconds from finishing its CD, as reducing its CD at this point is not useful. This also allows the Rupture dot to gain the benefit of Cascading Power. It is affected by one talent:
    1. Short Fuse: Increases Fury built by 2
  • Dual Saber Throw is your free filler ability. It generates 2 Rage in this spec, however it’s often not necessary except for certain boss mechanics or AoE phases. It deals more damage than Vicious Slash, so it’s best used during Cascading Power windows to maximize its dmg dealt, however it gives no CD reduction. It is affected by one talent:
    1. Force Vigor: Generates 2 Rage
  • Battering Assault is your primary Rage generator, and fits into your regular rotation during your Force Crush phase. It should allow you to maintain high enough Rage to never require Assaults, and you should avoid using it during Cascading Power. It is affected by one talent:
    1. Overpower: Reduces the active CDs of Obliterate and Smash by 1 second

3.5 Ability Nomenclature and Rotation Priority:


  1. Smash (with Shockwave)
  2. Force Crush: FC
  3. Force Scream: FS
  4. Obliterate: OB
  5. Vicious Throw: VT
  6. Ravage: RV
  7. Vicious Slash: VS
  8. Rupture: RT
  9. Dual Saber Throw: DST
  10. Battering Assault: BA
  11. Assault
  12. Force Charge (gap closer): Charge

Offensive Cooldowns:

  1. Bloodthirst
  2. Berserk
  3. Frenzy

3.6 Opening Rotation:


Considering 2 possible cases:

Opening rotation with Bloodthirst:

Pre-cast Frenzy / Charge + Bloodthirst / Adrenal / Relic / FC + FS + Smash + BA + OB + VS + DST + VS + Assault + FS + OB + Berserk / Smash + FC + VS + VS + VS + OB + Smash

swtor-rage-marauder-dps-class-guide-opening-rotation

Opening rotation without Bloodthirst (recommended if there is another Marauder to use it):

Pre-cast Frenzy / Charge + Adrenal / Relic / Smash + FC + RV + FS + OB + RT + VS + Smash + VS + VS + OB + Berserk / FS + VS + Smash + FC + DST + VS + OB

swtor-rage-marauder-dps-class-guide-opening-rotation-2

3.7 Rotation Strategy:


As a Rage Marauder, you should be focusing on buffing your Smash to have a nice damage burst, with decent filler abilities between Smashes. The whole rotation has 2 sections: Force Crush + Obliterate + Smash + Fillers, and Berserk + Obliterate + Smash + Fillers. Force Crush should be used on cooldown (with the exception of the opening rotation) to get a buffed Smash, while the next Smash will be buffed by Berserk. Obliterate should always be used before any Smash to give it an automatic critical hit, and if the rotation is done well, the timer for Obliterate should always be up at the same point relative to your Smash. This may mean that it’s directly before or directly after, depending on your rotation. Dual Saber Throw should be used as a filler ability to build Rage, as, it does more damage than Vicious Slash and generates the same amount of Rage due to your talents. Battering Assault is the usual bulk Rage generator during the non-Berserk portion of your rotation. Ravage is a personal choice as a Rage Marauder, as you should only use it immediately after a Smash, however generally speaking it is more effective to be using other abilities instead, so Ravage would normally only be used for a section of quick burst, perhaps during a few seconds of increased damage taken by the boss. Vicious Throw is used in conjunction with Vicious Slash in the rotation as a filler when the target is below 30%.

15-20 second rotation (10-14 GCDs, no opener). Considering 2 possible cases:

Above 30% HP, full ability rotation:

Smash + FS + FC + OB + VS + VS + Smash + DST + FS + VS + OB + Berserk / VS + Smash

swtor-rage-marauder-dps-class-guide-rotation-1

Below 30% HP, full ability rotation:

Smash + FS + FC + OB + VT + VS + Smash + DST + FS + VT + OB + Berserk / VS + Smash

swtor-rage-marauder-dps-class-guide-rotation-2

Video of rotation on training dummy

3.8 Cascading Power Ability Priority:


How Cascading Power functions: Cascading Power is a buff triggered by your Smash, however the ability explanation can be a little confusing. The talent says that it lasts 6 seconds after using Smash, which means it would last 4.5 seconds considering Smash’s GCD, but this is false. It triggers when the Smash actually deals damage at roughly the end of the GCD, giving you, in theory, up to 4 GCDs. Unfortunately, like Smash, most of your abilities have delayed animations after you activate the ability before they actually deal their damage, so even if you use 4 abilities in the 4 GCD window, the last ability used will often hit a few milliseconds after you lose the Cascading Power buff. The only abilities that fit in this 4th GCD window is Force Scream, but all the others; assaults, Vicious Slash, Vicious Throw, the final tick of Ravage, and Obliterate will be delayed too long to be affected by Cascading Power.

  1. Rupture – RT (best used before Smash and not during the window itself)
  2. Ravage – RV (only in the first 2 GCDs, Ravage counts as 2 GCDs when used)
  3. Force Crush – FC (only in the first 2 GCDs)
  4. Vicious Throw – VT (1st – 3rd GCDs)
  5. Force Scream – FS (best used at 4th GCD)
  6. Obliterate – OB (1st – 3rd GCD)
  7. Dual Saber Throw – DST (1st – 3rd GCD)
  8. Vicious Slash – VS (1st – 3rd GCD)

Ideal Cascading Power Rotations (from best to worst):

Note: VT, VS, OB, DST and FS are all interchangeable between the 1st, 2nd or 3rd GCD, while FC, VS, OB, VT, DST and FS are interchangeable in the 1st or 2nd GCD. All the Cascading Power Rotation Starts with Rupture + Smash + Rotations below to fully Maximize its dmg output.

  1. FC + RV + FS
  2. VT + RV + FS
  3. OB + RV + FS
  4. DST + RV + FS
  5. FC + RV
  6. VT + RV
  7. OB + RV
  8. DST + RV
  9. RV + (Filler) + FS
  10. RV + (Filler)
  11. FC + VT + OB + FS
  12. FC + OB + DST + FS
  13. FC + OB + VS + FS
  14. FC + VT + VS + FS
  15. OB + DST + VT + FS
  16. OB + DST + VS + FS
  17. OB + VT + VS + FS
  18. OB + VS + VS + FS
  19. OB + VT + (Filler) + FS
  20. OB + DST + (Filler) + FS
  21. OB + VS + (Filler) + FS

Note: Using a filler (Assault, Retaliation, Battering Assault etc) duing the 3rd GCD when Force Scream is available can be a good idea, considering that Force Scream will hit on the 4th GCD, but no other abilities will.

3.9 AoE Ability Priority:


  1. Single Target Rotation
  2. Sweeping Slash

3.10 Sample Parse Analysis:


swtor-rage-marauder-dps-class-guide-sample-parse

Translation:

  1. Zerschlage Smash
  2. Bösartiger Hieb Vicious Slash
  3. Auslöschen Obliterate
  4. Verwüstung Ravage
  5. Machtschrei Force Scream
  6. Zerschmettert (Macht) Force Crush
  7. Bösartiger Wurf Vicious Throw
  8. Zweifacher Lichtschwertwurf Dual Saber Throw
  9. Wilder Ansturm Battering Assault
  10. Machtpeitsche Force Lash
  11. Ansturm Assault
  12. Machtvorstoß Force Charge

Note: Although this parse was the best available due to this spec rarely being used for PvE testing, it does contain a few mistakes. For example, Rupture isn’t used prior to Smash, and Assault should not have been necessary.

  • The first section contains Smash and Vicious Slash, which are obvious choices. Vicious Slash is your general filler, and Smash is both regular and significantly buffed, meaning their high damage and frequency of use causes them to deal such a significant chunk of your overall damage.
  • The second portion contains the remainder of your fillers; Ravage, Force Scream, Force Crush, Vicious Throw, and Obliterate. The damage split between these abilities should remain relatively stable across parses, and only really differ according to crit rates, especially during Cascading Power. Vicious Throw damage is the most variable, and depends highly on how long your targets are below 30% HP for.
  • The final section is comprised of the remainder of your abilities, whose damage are largely stable and inconsequential. Though this parse is missing Rupture, its direct damage and dot are both part of this section, as are Dual Saber Throw, which should be at the top, Battering Assault, and Force Lash damage from Vicious Slash.

3.11 Tips and Tricks:


  • Sith Warrior resources work differently from all of the other classes, and it’s sometimes difficult to manage well and deal the best possible dps. The fact that you have extra Rage to spend when your important abilities are on CD doesn’t necessarily mean that you should be spending it all, or even any of it. If you have a total of 5 Rage and the next major section of your rotation requires 8, you are better off using a few GCDs immediately to generate the extra Rage that you need so that you can go directly into the next part of your rotation as soon as possible, rather than spending the Rage that you have and significantly delaying your higher priority abilities.
  • Both Juggernauts and Marauders have the best overall defensive cooldowns in the game for any class, so make sure you are using them to their greatest extent to avoid damage, or when you are required to off-tank to mitigate as much damage as possible. This could give your ops the valuable time it needs to possibly rez a fallen group member and continue the fight as per usual.
  • Although Ravage has a 3 second channel time, the damage that it deals does not actually require the full 3 seconds. One of the most important tricks for Warrior dps is to take advantage of the fact that while the animation takes 3 seconds to complete, the final tick of damage (there are 3 ticks of dmg and 6 hits in total – 3 main hand and 3 off hand), happens around the 2.5-2.8 second mark. Once you see that third hit in the combat text, regardless of whether the animation is done or not, you should use your next ability. Doing this, and practicing exactly when to stop the channel based on your personal latency, is an excellent way to maximise your damage output.
  • You can use Retaliation as a replacement filler in fights that have any mechanics that may trigger its usage, as it is useful to improve your burst dps due to being off the GCD.
  • Force Camouflage is an excellent threat drop, just like any vanish abilities from a stealth class, however this component of the ability only works if you are being targeted.
  • Once you know all your talents well enough and can reposition your hotkeys quickly, you can respec into Carnage for the Brooding talent, use Channel Hatred to generate 30 stacks of Fury, then quickly respec back and reset your hotkeys to have a full stack of Fury for use at the beginning of a fight. This is particularly useful for difficult fights, or those with an important burn phase at the beginning of the pull.
  • Predation’s increased Defense chance, in addition to the movement speed buff, is an excellent tool to help increase your tank’s mitigation during moments of heavy melee and ranged burst damage.
  • You will not gain stacks of Fury while you have any charges of Berserk active.
  • Undying Rage is an excellent tool to help avoid lethal damage. It is often used while at exceedingly low HP to try and survive for as long as possible, however if you are about to take lethal damage, even if you are only at half HP, you are better off using Undying Rage to mitigate as much damage as possible, even if it means that it will cost you a greater amount of HP at the end of the effect
  • Cloak of Pain is not only your best overall damage reduction cooldown, but it also deals a moderate amount of damage to the enemy that hits you. As such, using it during phases where you will are consistently hit by the boss or by ticks of AoE damage will increase both its duration and your dps.

Hybrid

Hybrid (11 / 2 / 33 ) http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/marauder#10210322-20-3231211322011022223

This hybrid spec, also known as Dotsmash, was invented by Charadith of Ebonhawk

swtor-hybrid-marauder-dps-class-guide-build

4.1 Rates (1-10):


  • Single Target Dps: 9
  • AoE Damage: 10
  • Group Utility: 8
  • Rotation Difficulty: 6
  • RNG Dependant: No
  • Burst: 8
  • Sub 30% Talent or Ability Buffs: Yes

4.2 Gearing & Stats Priority:


  • **Must Have** Accuracy: 110% Force & 100% melee (1% from companion + 2% from talent = 7% from Gear)
  • **Must Have** 0 Alacrity
  • 66-70% Surge
  • **Must Have** 0-60 Critical Rating
  • All other secondary stats in Power
  • **Must Have** Augments: Strength (Might)
  • Relics: Serendipitous Assault & Focused Retribution
  • Alternate Relic: Boundless Ages
  • Set Bonus: 4 piece Weaponmaster’s
  • Shii-Cho Form

4.3 Gearing Overview:


  • Reaching the Accuracy cap should be your highest priority
  • The dps bonus given by Alacrity rating is low enough that, even with the high amount of diminishing returns it will suffer, Surge rating will always be better. Also, considering that your resource pool does not regenerate over time, that aspect of Alacrity is wasted.
  • The difference in overall dps between 0 Critical rating and 60 Critical rating is minimal, but having any in general will negatively affect your overall dps, so avoiding it wherever possible is suggested.
  • Choice of relics should be made on a fight-to-fight basis. Serendipitous Assault and Focused Retribution will give you a greater overall damage increase, while Boundless Ages will allow you to focus your burst into a short window for fights with tight burn phases.
  • Getting your set bonus as quickly as possible is highly recommended. It will increase your dps substantially enough that having lower item level armorings with the set bonus is still a better option than higher item level armorings without it.

4.4 Ability Explanation:


  • Berserk (Shii-cho Form) grants 6 Rage and 3 stacks of Shockwave immediately, plus an additional 6 Rage over 3 seconds. It should be used regularly, and is a core part of your rotation. It is affected by one talent:
    1. Shockwave: Grants 3 stacks of Shockwave, increasing the damage dealt by and reducing the cost of your next Smash by 33.3% per stack
  • Smash is your hardest hitting ability in this spec, as it has significantly buffed damage as well as being a guaranteed crit. In addition, it gets a reduced CD from your ability use, is free, and your rotation cycles between reducing its CD and buffing it, so using it as soon as it’s available is necessary for maximum dps. It is worth noting that although only ever second Smash will be buffed, you should still be using it on CD. It is affected by several talents:
    1. Decimate: Increases damage done by 20% and reduces the CD by 3 seconds
    2. Cascading Power: Increases all damage dealt by 9% for 6 seconds
    3. Overpower: Assault, Battering Assault, Vicious Slash, Vicious Throw and Force Scream reduce the active CD by a second
    4. Short Fuse: Increases Fury built by 2
  • Deadly Saber is your most important ability in this spec, and to maximize its damage it should be used slightly before a Smash to gain full advantage of the Cascading Power buff. Similarly, utilising abilities such as Smash and Force Scream during the second stack application allow a few extra dot ticks before refreshing the dot for the third stack. Using it on CD is necessary.
    1. Short Fuse: Increases Fury built by 2
    2. Hungering: Critical bleeds heal you for 1% of your max HP
  • Vicious Throw is your sub 30% ability, and whenever this ability is available it should replace Vicious Slash. When available, it should also be your first priority to use during Cascading Power. It is affected by a variety of talents:
    1. Brutality: Increases Critical chance by 7.5%
    2. Overpower: Reduces the active CDs of Obliterate and Smash by 1 second
    3. Saber Strength: Increases damage dealt by 6%
    4. Enraged Slash: Refunds 1 Rage on use
    5. Short Fuse: Increases Fury built by 2
  • Ravage deals great damage, however it is of much less significance than for other specs. Using it during Cascading Power is a ideal, but you should use it as a general filler. Keep in mind that it won’t reduce the CD of your other abilities, but it generally fits well into your filler sections. Considering it is free of cost, the best uses for Ravage are either during Cascading Power, or during the non-Berserk portion of your rotation, as you will have the least amount of Rage at this time, but during the Berserk portion will likely lead to you wasting a significant amount of Rage. If you happen to have Ravage available during the Berserk window, it is recommended you delay it until your next Cascading Power, however this is not an absolutely necessary decision. Ravage will gain the most benefit from Cascading Power out of all of your abilities.
  • Obliterate is a core part of your rotation due to the significant buff it gives Smash, as well as dealing high damage and leaping towards the target. Keep in mind that this charge has the potential to get you killed in certain situations due to AoE or movement mechanics, so ensuring you use it at the right time is imperative. Just like Force Crush and Berserk, using this ability correctly and in synergy should always result in an Obliterate between each Smash. It is affected by a variety of talents:
    1. Decimate: Reduces the CD by 3 seconds
    2. Saber Strength: Increases damage dealt by 6%
    3. Dominate: Causes your next Smash to be a Critical hit
    4. Gravity Manipulation: Reduces cost by 1
    5. Battle Cry: Makes your next Force Scream free
    6. Force Jump: Can be used while immobilized
    7. Overpower: Assault, Battering Assault, Vicious Slash, Vicious Throw and Force Scream reduce the active CD by a second
    8. Short Fuse: Increases Fury built by 2
  • Rupture is a standard filler ability, however it has a very limited field of use. Overall, a Rupture would do more damage than a Vicious Slash, however it has no extra utility. The best way to maximize your damage is using Rupture as Smash is less than 1.5 seconds from finishing its CD, as reducing its CD at this point is not useful. This also allows the Rupture dot to gain the benefit of Cascading Power. It is affected by two talents:
    1. Short Fuse: Increases Fury built by 2
    2. Hungering: Critical bleeds heal you for 1% of your max HP
    3. Seeping Wound: Has a 50% chance to reduce target’s movement speed by 50%
  • Force Scream is one of your filler abilities. As with several others, it reduces the active CDs of Enrage, Obliterate and Smash, however Force Scream additionally gains a buff from your Obliterate and Force Charge that makes it free. As such, using this as your primary damage filler is a must, and it’s also an ideal ability to use during your Cascading Power window. It is affected by two talents:
    1. Overpower: Reduces the active CDs of Obliterate and Smash by 1 second
    2. Battle Cry: Obliterate and Force Charge make your next Force Scream free
    3. Short Fuse: Increases Fury built by 2
  • Dual Saber Throw is your free filler ability. It deals more damage than Vicious Slash, so it’s best used during Cascading Power windows to maximize its dmg dealt, however it gives no CD reduction.
  • Vicious Slash is the most important filler in this spec, as it reduces the CD of your most important abilities, as well as dealing improved damage. Spamming this ability as much as you can when everything else is on CD is necessary to reduce the time until your next Smash, however it will always be low on your priority list, and partially replaced by Vicious Throw when it becomes available. It is affected by a variety of talents:
    1. Brutality: Increases Critical chance by 7.5%
    2. Overpower: Reduces the active CDs of Obliterate and Smash by 1 second
    3. Saber Strength: Increases damage dealt by 6%
    4. Force Lash: Deals additional Force damage
    5. Enraged Slash: Refunds 1 Rage on use
    6. Short Fuse: Increases Fury built by 2
  • Battering Assault is your primary Rage generator, and fits into your regular rotation comfortably. It should allow you to maintain high enough Rage to never require Assaults, and you should avoid using it during Cascading Power. It is affected by one talent:
    1. Overpower: Reduces the active CDs of Obliterate and Smash by 1 second

4.5 Ability Nomenclature and Rotation Priority:


  1. Smash
  2. Deadly Saber: DS
  3. Vicious Throw: VT
  4. Ravage: RV
  5. Obliterate: OB
  6. Rupture: RT
  7. Force Scream: FS
  8. Dual Saber Throw: DST
  9. Vicious Slash: VS
  10. Battering Assault: BA
  11. Assault
  12. Force Charge (Close Gaps): Charge

Offensive Cooldowns:

  1. Bloodthirst
  2. Berserk
  3. Frenzy

4.6 Opening Rotation:


Pre-stack Fury (with Frenzy or respec) / Berserk / DS + Charge + RT / Bloodthirst (if available) / Adrenal / Relic + Smash + OB + RV + FS + VS + BA / DS + Smash + DST + OB + VS

swtor-hybrid-marauder-dps-class-guide-opening-rotation

4.7 Rotation Strategy:


The hybrid Marauder rotation strategy focuses on buffing your Deadly Saber charges more powerful abilities with Cascading Power, giving you the benefit of having both activated abilities and dots benefiting from the damage boost. Unfortunately without Force Crush only every other Smash benefits from Shockwave, however the automatic critical strike from Obliterate will still occur and it will still proc Cascading Power for your other abilities. Deadly Saber should be used at every opportunity, but using it a few GCDs before a Smash will give you the most benefit. Rupture is the best ability to use immediately before a Smash, and combining Rupture and Deadly Saber with your regular abilities will give you a huge boost from Cascading Power. Obliterate should be used between each Smash, and Smash should be used on CD to ensure that you are buffing your damage as much as possible. Dual Saber Throw, Force Scream and Ravage are your usual fillers during Cascading Power, each with a different priority during the buff, but obviously all best used while buffed. Vicious Slash is your best filler to use outside of the buff to reduce Smash’s CD.

15-20 second rotation (10-14 GCDs, no opener). Considering 2 possible cases:

Above 30% HP, full ability rotation:

RT + Smash + OB + VS / DS + VS + FS + BA + Smash + VS / Berserk + OB + VS / DS + VS + RT + Smash + DST + RV + FS

swtor-hybrid-marauder-dps-class-guide-rotation-1

Under 30% HP, full ability rotation:

RT + Smash + OB + VT / DS + VS + FS + BA + Smash + VT / Berserk + OB + VS / DS + VS + RT + Smash + VT + RV + FS + DST

swtor-hybrid-marauder-dps-class-guide-rotation-2

Video of rotation on training dummy

4.8 Cascading Power Ability Priority:


How Cascading Power functions: Cascading Power is a buff triggered by your Smash, however the ability explanation can be a little confusing. The talent says that it lasts 6 seconds after using Smash, which means it would last 4.5 seconds considering Smash’s GCD, but this is false. It triggers when the Smash actually deals damage at roughly the end of the GCD, giving you, in theory, up to 4 GCDs. Unfortunately, like Smash, most of your abilities have delayed animations after you activate the ability before they actually deal their damage, so even if you use 4 abilities in the 4 GCD window, the last ability used will often hit a few milliseconds after you lose the Cascading Power buff. The only abilities that fit in this 4th GCD window is Force Scream, but all the others; assaults, Vicious Slash, Vicious Throw, the final tick of Ravage, and Obliterate will be delayed too long to be affected by Cascading Power.

1. Deadly Saber – DS (Best used before to have 3 stacks for the longest duration)

2. Rupture – RT (Best used immediately before Smash and not during the window itself)

3. Ravage – RV (Only in the first 2 GCDs)

4. Vicious Throw – VT (1st – 3rd GCDs)

5. Force Scream – FS (Best used at 4th GCD)

6. Obliterate – OB (1st – 3rd GCD)

7. Dual Saber Throw – DST (1st – 3rd GCD)

8. Vicious Slash – VS (1st – 3rd GCD)

Ideal Cascading Power Rotations (from best to worst):

Note: VT, VS, OB, DST and FS are all interchangeable between the 1st, 2nd or 3rd GCD, while VS, OB, VT, DST and FS are interchangeable in the 1st or 2nd GCD. All the Cascading Power rotations ideally start with Deadly Saber already applied, Rupture + Smash + Rotations below, to fully maximize damage.

  1. VT + RV + FS
  2. OB + RV + FS
  3. DST + RV + FS
  4. VT + RV
  5. OB + RV
  6. DST + RV
  7. RV + (Filler) + FS
  8. RV + (Filler)
  9. OB + DST + VT + FS
  10. OB + DST + VS + FS
  11. OB + VT + VS + FS
  12. OB + VS + VS + FS
  13. OB + VT + (Filler) + FS
  14. OB + DST + (Filler) + FS
  15. OB + VS + (Filler) + FS

Note: Using a filler (Assault, Retaliation, Battering Assault etc) during the 3rd GCD when Force Scream is available can be a good idea, considering that Force Scream will hit on the 4th GCD, but no other abilities will.

4.9 AoE Ability Priority:


1. Single target rotation

2. Sweeping Slash

4.10 Sample Parse Analysis:


swtor-hybrid-marauder-dps-class-guide-sample-parse

  • The first section has your 3 most important abilities. Smash should take first place, followed by Deadly Saber and Vicious Slash. There isn’t much to interpret here, as each of them should be used regularly, and the only thing that would cause their damage to differ wildly would be missed timings throughout the rotation, such as not timing Deadly Saber to be up during Cascading Power or overusing Vicious Slash.
  • The second portion consists of Ravage, Obliterate and Vicious Throw. Since Ravage and Obliterate should both be used at regular intervals throughout your rotation, their damage should remain relatively steady. Vicious Throw is by far your most important and hardest hitting filler, and under 30% it should be used as often as possible, especially during Cascading Power. Obviously, the longer you have targets available with less than 30% HP, the more overall damage Vicious Throw will end up dealing.
  • The third section contains the remainder of your abilities, and their specific order isn’t overly important. Force Scream usually does high damage, followed by the bleed from Rupture. Note that since Rupture is very situational and should not be used on CD, higher Rupture damage is not necessarily ideal, but maximising its uptime during Cascading Power is a benefit. Dual Saber Throw, Battering Assault, Rupture’s direct damage and Force Lash account for the remaining damage, which is largely inconsequential.

4.11 Tips and Tricks:


  • Sith Warrior resources work differently from all of the other classes, and it’s sometimes difficult to manage well and deal the best possible dps. The fact that you have extra Rage to spend when your important abilities are on CD doesn’t necessarily mean that you should be spending it all, or even any of it. If you have a total of 5 Rage and the next major section of your rotation requires 8, you are better off using a few GCDs immediately to generate the extra Rage that you need so that you can go directly into the next part of your rotation as soon as possible, rather than spending the Rage that you have and significantly delaying your higher priority abilities.
  • Both Juggernauts and Marauders have the best overall defensive cooldowns in the game for any class, so make sure you are using them to their greatest extent to avoid damage, or when you are required to off-tank to mitigate as much damage as possible. This could give your ops the valuable time it needs to possibly rez a fallen group member and continue the fight as per usual.
  • Although Ravage has a 3 second channel time, the damage that it deals does not actually require the full 3 seconds. One of the most important tricks for Warrior dps is to take advantage of the fact that while the animation takes 3 seconds to complete, the final tick of damage (there are 3 ticks of dmg and 6 hits in total – 3 main hand and 3 off hand),happens around the 2.5-2.8 second mark. Once you see that third hit in the combat text, regardless of whether the animation is done or not, you should use your next ability. Doing this, and practicing exactly when to stop the channel based on your personal latency, is an excellent way to maximise your damage output.
  • You can use Retaliation as a replacement filler in fights that have any mechanics that may trigger its usage, as it is useful to improve your burst dps due to being off the GCD.
  • Force Camouflage is an excellent threat drop, just like any vanish abilities from a stealth class, however this component of the ability only works if you are being targeted.
  • Predation’s increased Defense chance, in addition to the movement speed buff, is an excellent tool to help increase your tank’s mitigation during moments of heavy melee and ranged burst damage.
  • You will not gain stacks of Fury while you have any charges of Berserk active.
  • Undying Rage is an excellent tool to help avoid lethal damage. It is often used while at exceedingly low HP to try and survive for as long as possible, however if you are about to take lethal damage, even if you are only at half HP, you are better off using Undying Rage to mitigate as much damage as possible, even if it means that it will cost you a greater amount of HP at the end of the effect
  • Cloak of Pain is not only your best overall damage reduction cooldown, but it also deals a moderate amount of damage to the enemy that hits you. As such, using it during phases where you will are consistently hit by the boss or by ticks of AoE damage will increase both its duration and your dps.

How Taunts and Threat Drops Function:


It is unfortunately common for decent dps to not have a proper grasp of how taunts and threat drops work, which leads to mistimed use of abilities and a far more difficult job for the tanks. Although tanks should be capable of holding threat against any dps regardless of their skill, in some fights where taunts need to be strategically held for other mechanics, the dps understanding the mechanics behind threat helps a great deal. There are 3 types of threat drops in the game, and knowing which you have access to and when to use them is key to a successful raiding career.    

  • AoE Threat Drop (E.g. Cloud Mind | Chaff Flare | Diversion): Unlike targeted threat drops, using these abilities will lower your threat on all enemies and not only your current target. Each use will lower your threat by a percentage of your total, but calculated individually based on each enemy’s threat meter.
  • “It Wasn’t Me” Threat Drop (Force Camouflage): Marauders | Sentinels don’t have access to a standard threat reduction ability. Instead, they have a more powerful threat drop that will essentially reset your threat, making it very difficult for you to steal aggro again. This mechanic, however, only works for enemies that have previously targeted you at some point of the fight. Because of this, using Force Camouflage as a conventional threat drop is not suggested, and it should instead be saved until you either pull aggro and require an immediate threat drop, or to utilise its damage reduction utility.
  • Removal From Combat (E.g. Force Cloak): This is the most powerful threat drop in the game, and is subsequently one of the reasons why classes with this kind of threat drop should never steal aggro, taking advantage of this ability’s strength as part of their opening rotation. Activating this type of ability will remove you from combat, resetting your current threat on all targets to 0.

All taunts function in the same way; any target affected by a taunt will cause the user’s threat level to become 10% higher than the target’s highest current threat, in addition to forcing them to attack the user for the next 6 seconds. It will always put the user of the taunt at the top of the threat meter, but gains significantly more power as threat levels improve due to the 10% extra threat generated. Although the target is forced to attack the taunter for the next 6 seconds, threat generation continues regularly, and should another person have the highest threat level when the debuff wears off, they will become the new target

Dps knowing when to drop threat is an important skill. Whenever a tank taunts, the taunt icon will appear as a debuff on the target (the icon is always the same, regardless of class), so you will always know when a taunt has been used. A well timed threat drop is not necessarily used immediately after your best CDs or at the end of your opening rotation. You should always wait to use your threat drop until after you see that the tank has taunted the boss, and not necessarily the first time that they do (remember that they often use 3 taunts in a row as part of their opening rotation), as this signifies that their threat gain has been maximised. If you use your aggro drop as soon as you pull aggro on the boss but before the tank can taunt, their taunt will therefore become less effective and you may put yourself, or another player, at risk of pulling aggro again immediately afterwards. Also keep in mind that the higher your own threat is when you use your threat drop, the more significant the amount of threat lost will be.

Combat removal abilities such as Force Cloak should of course be used according to their place in your opening rotation, and not when you pull aggro, for the same reason as above. For Marauders | Sentinels, while it is also not recommended that you use Force Camouflage once you steal aggro in your first rotation, you have a slightly different timing window. Your threat drop will only actually work if you are being targeted when you use it, so you should save it until such time as you are targeted a second time and the tank can no longer instantly taunt off of you. Doing so will still help to maximise the tank’s threat, and will also drop your threat significantly enough that you shouldn’t have to worry about pulling aggro for the remainder of the fight.

About the Authors


Invinc and Vindrik are both members of <Hatred> on Harbinger, an endgame progression guild with world 3rd clear of Nightmare S&V, World 2nd clear of Nightmare TFB, world 1st speed clear (under 2 hrs) of Nightmare S&V, and numerous server firsts at the 8m level.

Invinc is the guild leader of <Hatred> and mains an operative DPS but plays pretty much every and all classes for operations. He currently leads the parses on operative lethality DPS on multiple boss fights and dummy parses. Also known as Carlenux, Carlenix (sniper), Carlenx (Sorcerer), Pyrotec (Powertech)

Vindrik mains an operative healer and is the raid leader for group B in <Hatred> (World 5th speed clear of Nightmare S&V). He is the former raid leader of <Notorious Synergy> on Dalborra, one of the world top guilds pre-2.0 (World 4th).

While the information here are mostly written by these two players, numerous other Hatred raid members and guides were consulted. Questions, comments, concerns will be answered by Invinc, who goes by the name of Carlos Eduardo Mata in the comments section below.

  • Starkie

    Define “more difficult classes”.

    • Carlos Eduardo Mata

      classes that have to do more, focus more, to do less dps. in most cases an average marauder knowing how to play their class just good, nothing special would beat almost every other “harder classes” in this case PT, Sorc, Ssin, jug that might be better than him…. Basically think of it this way, which class is played by almost everyoen? mara, which class isnt as dps… those ones up top… which classes usually have better performance with an average player, mara or those classes?… mara… so thats what “more difficult classes” means.

      We all know there are great players everywhere and all classes can beat others, but for the majority on average players, some classes are hardest or worst than others, theres a reason why people usually play more X class than other :). Because if i am an average player i would rather be “decent” with a marauder, than being Bad with another class that i dont have enough skill to make it good enough :D.

  • Hotsauce

    Good discussion of threat drops, among other things; today I learned that I’ve been using force Camo incorrectly. I have been using it preemptively as a carnage marauder, as I can predict when a gore burst is coming up (with a burst of threat along side it). Now, after reading this, I’ll use it more as a reaction, ie if target of target switches to me after a gore burst.

    • Carlos Eduardo Mata

      there was a discussion about this on the jug thread, i tested and confirmed that force camo works that way, however inside raid operations things may change, i / we dont know if after pulling a raid boss he is forced to target / trigger every player, or his mechanics forces him to do so, but Most of the time on “normal Threat Raid bosses” it will work 99% of the time just using anytime… however for non normal threat raid bosses like Dread guards Nightmare in TFB where Heirad has no threat pool for example, it doesnt work, reason why i believe the dmg reduction on camo doesnt work either on his explosion… so the only way it worked was waiting for him to target you… so we dont know exactly how it works in operation to make it work taht way. However the only thing i am sure i tested is that Camo by definition, works that way :)

  • Lacusar

    I’m not sure if skilling “Hungering” is so usefull as Carnage, event it’s more an Annhiliation-point as fo carange. I would put it in Decimate for Add-groups more it’s more usefull.

    Anyway better guide than both dot-guides for Madness Sorcerer or Balance Sage (both guides are still shit).

  • Havik79

    Sorry to nit pick, but in the first spec you say Vicious Throw is affected by 2 talents but list 3, the first one is for rapture.

    • http://dulfy.net/ Dulfy

      ty, corrected

  • David Newton

    The Rage pie chart and breakdown are in German!

    • http://dulfy.net/ Dulfy

      Yes it is in German since it is hard to find good PvE rage mara parses. A translation is provided though

    • Carlos Eduardo Mata

      wuuut? dont we all know german :P?… lol unfortunately almost no one parse Rage mara lol, and even when i believe that parse have quite a few mistakes that i explain in the parse analysis, its the best there is, and my mara is not close to BiS gear to do a fair analysis about it with my own Parse so had to go to that German – English Translator :P.

      • Veco

        Just ask Beast to re-spec and bust out a parse for you

      • David Newton

        Oh I know German alright, it’s just that I thought that there wasn’t a translation when I originally posted the note. Since one of the previous guides had a similar pie chart, etc in French I thought it worth pointing out.

  • Detropia

    Good guide, but i’m not too okay with the two points spent in Phantom in the Annihilation tree: the second you disappear, you lose your aggro, so no need for speed boost or duration boost. it’s way better to put the two points in Defensive Roll in the Carnage tree: 30% less damage on AoE => Goood….

    • Zakiro

      You can’t move points out of Phantom and into Defensive Roll only 36 points are in the annihilation tree in the only spec I see with Phantom meaning you would be giving up annihilate and a point from something in the second from the top row for Defensive Roll or out of duel weild mastery

      • Detropia

        Yeah I’m not too convinced about the 2 points in the right tree neither, I’d put them into the Cut skill, 6sec cooldown instead of 8….

    • chameleon2000

      I beg to differ: Most AoE Damage is avoidable by good positioning <- which is easier with the speed buff in Anni tree. Only in fights with unavoidable Aoes (e.g. Dread Guards) I'd go for that. In many other fights the 30% speed buff is golden: Running to the Mercenary Demolitionist in Thrasher NiM, getting to a stone near the next boss position in Titan NiM, Running from Brontes to Kephess clones (as force leap won't be ready for one way) in Dread Fortress, Chasing Grob'thok when tank pulls him to next position, Running out of Corruptor's Gravity field in time, returning from bridge teleport on Raptus… In all those cases you win 1 or several GCDs of dealing damage that you wouldn't have without that talent :-)

      • Detropia

        Humm you have a point, but I personnally deal with these situations without phantom skill

        • Tann

          For current content there’s plenty of situations you can deal with without certain skills. That doesn’t mean leaving them out is idea.

    • Carlos Eduardo Mata

      beside the fact that Def roll in fact is good talent…. the way you are seeing at Phantom is wrong, first the Threat is never an issue, the talent is not there to Reduce more threat… it helps on movement if thats something… Force camo has 50% dmg reduction on duration, 2 more seconds = more dmg reduction, on everything that hits you, and all the fights have something that hit you, so there is no logic why it wouldnt help if u lose aggro or not, beside theres nothign else to put points on something there.

      if you want Def roll for specific fights just take 2 poitns from Rage tree into that for a 36/10

      Also if you mean Cut by the talent for disruption 2 sec less CD, thats the most useless talent ever, anni mara already have 2 Interrupts in their rotation with Charge + 8 Second Disruption, not to mention disruption is used in 1 fight per Operation AT MOST, where most of the time 2 seconds is not a difference, and obfuscate is rarely usable as well where you would need a shorter CD, remember berserk is only active like 30% of the fight duration, the other 70% of the fight you are using Deadly saber and Rupture Dots on the target full time, and they are force dmg, same with Force Charge, so increasing their dmg potential is a must.

  • darkfather

    Carnage tree is all about spamming Massacre. You only have it being used 2 times in a “rotation” and it’s more like 10. Using it for one hit is a complete waste.

  • Borachev

    I’m very confused as to your Carnage opener. What has been tested, theorycrafted and tested further by some of the best parsers involves a bit different timing on your abilities. Starting off, why would you waste a charge of Berserk on Battering Assault? This is not Annihilation where you want Deadly Saber on target as soon as possible, you want to save Berserk Charges for you harder hitting abilities initially. Also, there is no rigid opener for Carnage, but there is one that maximizes your abilities going off and takes advantage of Berserk. You definitely do not want to use a focus generator in one of your Gore windows right off the bat. This is a flat DPS loss.

    In an ideal world, your opener would be:
    Force Charge > Battering Assault > Berserk + Frenzy + Bloodthirst + Relic + Adrenal + Gore + Massacre (hurray laundry list, stagger Bloodthirst/adrenal usage with the next GCD if you have problems hitting all these in 1.2 seconds) > Ravage > Force Scream if procced else, Dual Saber Throw > Assault > Gore + Vicious Throw > a combination of 3 of (Force Scream if you have not used it yet/Massacre/Dual Saber Throw if Force has already been used) after this you start alternating Massacre and Assault until Battering Assault comes off cooldown.

    The reasoning behind using Massacre before Ravage involves the increased chance to proc Ataru Form and thus and increased chance to proc your auto crit on Force Scream. This also maximizes the usage of the Gore window by allowing for Massacre, all 6 hits from Ravage and one extra hit to be thrown into the window while giving you setup time for the second Gore window.

    Given the cooldown of Battering Assault, the position you have it in for the second usage is impossible to occur. The cooldown will always reset after your second Gore window.

    As far as the priority list goes, you may want to consider doing a Gore window priority list and an outside Gore window priority list.

    Gore window:
    1) Berserk
    2) Procced Force Scream
    3) Vicious Throw
    4) Ravage
    5) Massacre
    6) Dual Saber Throw
    7) Anything else

    Outside Gore window:
    1) Berserk
    2) Massacre to maintain buff
    3) Procced Force Scream if >6s before Gore comes off c/d
    4) Vicious Throw
    5) Ravage
    6) Rupture
    7) Massacre when all else is on cooldown
    8) Dual Saber Throw

    9) Battering Assault
    10) Assault

    The caveat to the outside Gore window rotation is you always want to have a minimum of 6 Rage for the Gore window, so there is quite a bit of decision making to go on during this time.

    In regards to your build, there are certain fights where Cloak of Carnage over Unbound will be of great use given proper Cloak of Pain timing resulting in significant DPS gain due to the extra Rage generation. For example, the DoT on Nefra, Lots of Missiles on Titan 6, Missile Barrage on Corrupter Zero, or for that matter any fight with predictable raidwide damage.

    • Carlos Eduardo Mata

      for the berserk it is : force charge / Berserk this mean berserk mid air. there are few logical reasons for this: first charge wont eat a charge second.. Berserk / frenzy / Bthirst / Gore are all non GCD CD, so basically u could just use all 4 in the same time but you cant, because berserk + Frenzy have a delay after for Bthirst (like 0.1-0.2 secs), more often than nothing for most players there are three choices: either you do it right…. or you Dont activate Bthirst (for the delay, if using quick keybinds) or notice Bthirst didnt activate and use it during ravage … so 2/3 cases are waste of dps for 1 Berserk charge that wont change your dps at all, the dps increase buff goes for 15 seconds, berserk itself is just alacrity, and for the 2 Gore Windows you have X amount of Rage, so even if u managed to have an extra berserk charge on 2nd Gore, you have nothing to fill in thats worth it… to be honest, for a raid i would do Bthirst + charge + BA + Frenzy / Berserk, just because wasting 2 GCD before using Bthirst means a huge dps lost for the group with the orbitals and huge openers.

      The last GCD inside the Gore usually miss half its attack, in this case Battering assault, your First section of the opener is “right” however that doesnt mean its the best or most reliable. for most of the people this is an RNG spec, most of the time, you wont have Execute on the third GCD after ravage, and if u use DST in that GCD unless you were super quick with the Gore/massacre you will miss it anyways… Remember Gore is a non GCD ability which activates instantly on you. therefor using Gore + something is usually a mistake. your rotation should be Massacre / Gore, this way while massacres doing animation (not hitting yet) to gain a few seconds on that gore window, that way after Ravage if scream doesnt proc you are sure your DST will hit the target.
      the opener is Exactly the same just with different Order and minimizing the RNG from Execute my gore windows: DST + MS + RV + 1 possible hit of Assault … yours: MS + RV + DST…. Second mine: VT + MS + FS + possible one hit no MS.
      Yours: VT + MS + FS.

      Heres the thing, some abilities activate later than others, FS is one of those abilities that always hit during Gore/Cascading power since its quick, normally used as last GCD Works better than the rest, however it is an important ability thats not worth the risk (Lag)… Other abilities in this case: VT and DST have delayed hit animations, also Massacre multiple hits, half of it does too… this means using this ability before Gore Window will give you like 0.1-0.3 Sec advantage that if used correctly can help you fit some extra Dmg in the gore Window.

      So where you see my gore window as: RV + MS + Assault AKA mistake on Rage Filler… it is Actually DST + RV + MS + Assault… while yours is MS + RV + DST (lets just go with FS not happening) and Assault will pretty sure miss the window.

      Same with second where u see: MS + FS + MS… is actually VT + MS + FS + MS… where yours is: VT + MS + FS and last massacre actually misses.

      I tested this like 70 times with my combat log, Vicious throw is easier to fit before Gore, while DST has to be super quick, however it still gives you few 0.x seconds to play with… in other words your opener and mine are the same with different order and mine exploiting Gore a bit more, without playing with Execute RNG on first Gore that is most of the time really unlikely to happen.

      The massacre before RV is actually smart, i missed that thanks, even when i am playing it safe just with FS at second rotation, it gives 3 its more chance to proc.

      The gore priority window list looks good i should have added that, however DST > Massacre.

      also the non gore priority window, i mean is right, but you wont use any of that, MS and FS > 6 Sec are right… DST / RV / VT are usually never used off Gore windows (beside VT under 30% which might fit sometimes with Rage)… rupture fits best at 3 sec to go Gore Window for the Dot dmg.

      on the build, yaeh ill agree with that but there is no point just putting 4 different specs on stuff so simple, thats the usual way to go spec, people should be smart enough to know the extra talents that are left around for their raids IMO, specially when its just utility stuff like that :D.

      • Borachev

        Did I put DST after Massacre? Woops. Good catch. I’ll agree with the RNG factor on the opener, it’s a bit chaotic since you have to make so many decisions based on what procced. So far, great guide! Thanks for listening to my comments.

        • Carlos Eduardo Mata

          yeah it happens, Never underestimate the difficulty of writing down Rotations… 9/10 you make a mistake… thats the story of my life >.< lololol

  • Rydarus

    I disagree with the ratings for rage spec and dotsmash, dotsmash’s single target exceeds the normal specs by a pretty significant amount, there are already 3900s flying around.

    And Rage spec’s single target, while not stellar, is definitely up to par. I believe a friend of mine does 3400 in Rage, not sure if she has a mainhand, but I honestly doubt it.

    • Carlos Eduardo Mata

      mmm why? i dont think any of the rotations have a 10 actually, anything that goes Above 3800+ usually just have a 9… some of the ratings were fixed for the 2.6 changes and ill be edited soon as well, but as far as i remember i dont think anything has a 10 not even Pyro merc :D.

      3400 is really decent, that goes with a 5… just like arsenal merc probably… assassins and sorc probably do more dmg so has a higher rating :D.

  • Element

    Couple of things i wanted to point out about the Annihilation portion of this guide. First thing is that on the point where you talk about Juyo mastery you state taht 12% is max when its actually 18% 3% per stack 6 stacks = 18%. the 12% is the overall DPS increase to (melee attacks not force attacks) from juyo at max stacks 2% damage buff per stack 6 stacks =12%. Second you dont mention anywhere in the guide that i saw that Vicsious Throw actually Procs rupture at a 66% rate just like annihilate does Which adds utility to the ability as well. Next thing i want to touch on is that you say not to delay Annihilate in order to use rupture IMO this is incorrect. Not just from opinion but from Parse as well. Reason being (in my current gear Mostly 78s) Rupture does a total 3879-4108 with inital damage and bleeds added together. Annihilate does 5450-6288. This is with no crits or anything so yes Annihlate does more damage per hit. Hoever you also have to take into account that Over half of ruptures damage has less DR going aginst it because it is internal damage where as annihilates full damage is affected by more DR. Which lessens the gap that Annihlates damage is higher.

    Ok with all that being said If you use Rupture (4k damage) Then Annihilate (6k) Damage and it procs ruptre allowing for you to use Rupture again Immediately as soon as its tick drops off, So that you can then use ruptre 2 more GCDs after that. Where as soon as you use rupture again Then Annihlate for another high chance to proc rupture your overall dps will increase drastically ofver the course of the fight. If you use Annihilate first and happen to proc ruptre when it was already off CD you waste 6 seconds of bleed damage that has at least a 40% crit chance or so with no crit in your gear. Thats alot of dps so to delay Anni for one GCD in order to use rupture (Which will also increase rage generation from Bloodlust and hemmorage that will increase your DPS greatly over the course of a fight.

    Last thing i would like to touch on is never use Battering Assault if you have over 4 rage. It has to much potential to waste rage. It builds A minimum of 6 rage. But it can build more from direct damage crits because of bloodlust. It is hard to see but this attack has 4 total hits when you use it. Bloodlust has no rate limit on it to how many rage it can give to you on crits. So the ability has the Potential to give you up to 10 rage. I have only ever had it give me the full 10 a handful of times as it is nearly impossible for this to happen but it is not rare for me to get 8 rage from using this ability which is why i say no more than 4 rage when you use it anymore and you waste rage. Assault does less damage but if you have Annilate coming up 5 is enough to cast it and if you have 100% up time on your bleeds will get another from those in the time it takes you to use annilate which leaves you with 2 rage at the end which would be enough to use Rupture if it procced and you needed to. Then you can use Battering assault and burn rage with your abilities.

    Please comment back to this as i would like to hear your thoughts and if you agree/disagree and why.

    • Carlos Eduardo Mata

      you are right on the first two comment, confused the talent crit chance with the actual dmg boost thanks and yeah Vicious Throw should have that, idk if it got lost in the editing or i just forgot to add it.

      Rupture has higher priority than annihilate however it should never clip its existing dot, thats why annihilate explanation also says Rupture has higher priority but should never delay it… If you have Rupture running there is no need for you to use Rupture + Annihilate, when u can do the other way around and gain more dps.

      however this rarely happens if you go with the opener and follow the rotation you will have most of the time rupture + fillers + Annihilate (proc) + Rupture…

      if you DONT have a dot running, Rupture has priority as it is explained in the rotation, if you have a dot running, delaying works, considering Annihilate Short CD, if yo have 2-3 secs on dot + annihilate (1.5) + Rupture (6 seconds long) + filler + filler + Annihilate (proc) you will still have uptime on the dot while not delaying annihilate… if you do the other way around rupture + anni, is the same, but you delayed anni for no reason to clip an existing Dot… this is up to RNG too, u might proc on first or second, or might proc on none of them :)…

      Battering assault thing is true, also goes with all other abilities, usually Battering Assault / Force Charge go with Either DS or followed by AN so there is Rarely a Rage lost in this part of the rotation if u do it right, you rarely have BA + Filler in the rotation since for that you would just use Filler + BA in that case (with 4 Rage)… and in the cas eu have 4 Rage + anni + DS + Rupture coming, with or without Force Charge your only choice is BA, otherwise 4-3 + 3 you are short for anni, delaying it also for rupture, u are better off doing BA / DS 7 + anni 2 + Rupture + keep going IMO.

      • element

        i knew not to clip it. i meant to not clip but always use rupture first if it needed refreshin i must have misread in your guide i thought that you said to always use anni first before rupture except in opening.

        glad i could help with the other two points though.

  • Random Marauder

    just saying do you think you could credit Charadith of the Ebon Hawk server for discovering the hybrid spec

  • oofalong

    FYI, Ravage has a total of 6 hits – 3 MH & 3 OH. There are four hits in the first GCD – MH, OH, MH & OH – followed by two hits in the second GCD – MH & OH. The latter two hits are equal to the combined four hits. Specifically, the final MH hit equals 2x of one of the earlier MH hits. And, the final OH hit equals a little bit more than 2x one of the earlier OH hits as the final hit does not seem to suffer from the OH penalty. (I am pretty sure this is a bug too.)

    • Carlos Eduardo Mata

      that is right, and yeah ive noticed that, i always like to think of it like the last hit is just a combination of both hits (on OH) since the dmg is higher… however does this information changes something in the guide :)? rotations or anything?, in non of the rotations Ravage is clipped from the last hit (that would be really dumb >.<) lol so not sure where to Fix that :D.

      • oofalong

        In the description of Ravage you state there are three hits; I was just pointing out there are 6. Accurate information is a good thing, right?

        • Carlos Eduardo Mata

          oh thats right, i guess divided in 3 sections would be more accurate than 3 hits, since they are infact 6 you are right :D thanks

          • oofalong

            I personally like thinking about it as damage per GCD. For one, this means the first GCD is useful even if you have to break the channel before the 2nd GCD as it is still hard hitting and resource neutral. (If anything you might gain resource due to Bloodlust.)

            In addition, you might want to mention that while Ravage is a melee ability – meaning you must be within 4m to activate it – once activated its damage is up to 10m. Thus, it can be a great ability to use even when the boss is on the move.

            • Carlos Eduardo Mata

              agree, the 4-10 Meter is right, however i find that too, idk hard for an average player? if you tell them that information they will start thinking they can use it at 10 Meters and a rain of hating comments will drop on that, i think those kind of practical stuff should be learned by the player playing the class in a raid IMO.

              will try to think on a way to add that to make it sounds “right” for an average player.

              the thinking on GCD is good as far as annihilation spec, however for the other specs its not, basically without the 3rd pair of hits the dmg on Carnage and both rage/hybrid is lost since there are better fillers than those and Gore / Cascading Power buff would increase the last hit dmg by a lot.

              so in general i prefer to think about it as a 2 Fillers with the hard hit at the end on a 2.7 Second Channel :D.

            • Dak’nos

              Would going 0 crit rating in my gear up my dps or should i keep my crit rating for now? Playing annhi atm with 20~% cfit

              • oofalong

                What is your crit rating? I believe there is very little difference between 0 crit rating and 200 crit rating so little that you can not observe the difference

  • Noroxus

    Please give credit where credit is due for the Hybrid build. Charadith of the Ebonhawk server, guild Puzzles.

    • Carlos Eduardo Mata

      no one is taking credit from anything in this guide, it is just explaining rotation, whoever wants to find out who invented what can go to the forums and find out, people here cares about guide and rotation now who came up with what idea… the same goes with pretty much all Operative tricks in all operatives guides from me, or whoever invented the C.Dart MM spec, or whoever had Hybrid sniper idea, Whoever had Hybrid Powertech, great job for them to find out, but that has nothing to do in this guide :D.

      • Noroxus

        It’s disappointing that dulfy would not give credit to the person who invented the spec, and figured it out. Unfortunately by not doing this, it is presented in a way that makes it appear it was created here.

        Also, other guides do give credit, when the information is known. Such as Swtorboard.org I hope you will be as respectiful as they are.

        • Carlos Eduardo Mata

          no one cares who invented something, do you remember who invented hybrid sniper and hybrid PT?… i dont see a single credit in the Operative guide there for me where 99% of that are taken from my ideas.. i was the first to use Acid blade in lethality, i was the first to use the Kolto Injection Talent for the extra TA for the Opener…. and i pretty much theorycrafted everyting written there, when and when not to use WB… the 3 Culls on WB buff are my ideas too, the rest of operatives pretty much learned from my stuff there and parses.

          so your argument is completely invalid whoever wants to know who invented what can go to the forums, this is not a guide to give credit to anyone, no where in my guide says “we invented” or “came up with the idea” of anything, there is a spec thats useful, and theres an explanation, thats about it.

        • Carlos Eduardo Mata

          People Invent, or find out something to help the community, this is not a vanity contest it is a guide… i dont see anywhere in my guides where i take credit from anything, not even for the things i found out in the operatives guide that everyone copied from me, i dont care, people use that and become better players thats all i care… i wont go guide by guide saying ” i invented this, where is my credit” who cares? if he cares so much about that he can go Trademark the Spec so we have to pay him for his :)

    • http://dulfy.net/ Dulfy

      I added a section below the Hybrid spec with the credit.

  • JediTev

    Hey Carlos, is there a Sentinel guide coming out? I know I could convert it over but that would give me a major headache. Thanks for your wonderful guides.

    • http://dulfy.net/ Dulfy

      Yes, there is a sentinel one coming soon, likely later this week as I need to format it

      • JediTev

        Yay!!! Thank you very much for these guides, they’re very awesome!!!! And thank you to the guys who took the time to create them, I used the guide on my Deception Assassin DPS and I’ve jumped up over 1000 dps!!!

      • Siks6

        Should you need any assistance. You know how to contact me Dulfy.

  • Endprogram

    In all of the Gearing Overviews, it says that having Critical rating will negatively affect my overall dps. “The difference in overall dps between 0 Critical rating and 120 Critical rating is minimal, but having any in general will negatively affect your overall dps, so avoiding it wherever possible is suggested.” Can somebody explain that to me? because that just doesn’t seem to make sense in my head.

    • Siks6

      Basically, you do not need ANY crit rating for Watchman/Annihilation spec. That and I noticed in her runs that her hard hitter is on top instead of her burns. Interesting. You should be stacking on power instead. Have at most four Power augments in your build. Rest should be might. That way you can be more balanced with your Crit chance. Your surge should be at most of 74% considering that you start hitting the DR around that. 100% accuracy is a must.

  • idnewton

    This comment:

    Although
    Ravage has a 3 second channel time, the damage that it deals does not actually require the full 3 seconds. One of the most important tricks for Warrior dps is to take advantage of the fact that while the animation takes 3 seconds to complete, the final tick of damage (there are 3 ticks of dmg and 6 hits in total – 3 main hand and 3 off hand),happens around the 2.5-2.8 second mark. Once you see that third hit in the combat text, regardless of whether the animation is done or not, you should use your next ability. Doing this, and practicing exactly when to stop the channel based on your personal latency, is an excellent way to maximise your damage output.
    In 1.10 is 100% false. If you look at any Marauder parse using 0% alacrity, it takes the full duration of Ravage for the last hit to take effect. Juggernaut’s Ravage can be clipped. Marauder’s cannot.

    • Tann

      Not true at all. I clip my Master Strike all the time and get all 6 hits.

      An example:
      23:13:48.849 Siir activates Master Strike.
      23:13:48.850 Siir gains Unshakable.
      23:13:49.232 Siir’s Master Strike hits Operations Training Dummy for 2644 energy damage, causing 2644 threat.
      23:13:49.232 Operations Training Dummy dodges Siir’s Master Strike, causing 1 threat.
      23:13:49.525 Siir’s Master Strike hits Operations Training Dummy for 2646 energy damage, causing 2646 threat.
      23:13:49.525 Siir’s Master Strike critically hits Operations Training Dummy for 629* energy damage, causing 629 threat!
      23:13:50.227 Siir loses Blade Rush.
      23:13:51.480 Siir’s Ataru Form hits Operations Training Dummy for 846 energy damage, causing 846 threat.
      23:13:51.487 Siir’s Ataru Form critically hits Operations Training Dummy for 1524* energy damage, causing 1524 threat!
      23:13:51.536 Siir’s Master Strike critically hits Operations Training Dummy for 9146* energy damage, causing 9146 threat!
      23:13:51.536 Siir’s Master Strike hits Operations Training Dummy for 1211 energy damage, causing 1211 threat.
      23:13:51.641 Siir loses Unshakable.
      23:13:51.643 Siir cancels Master Strike.

  • Nikolas Mandaji

    Hey, awesome guide guys!!! Hey Carlos, I’m such a noob, can you explain me why don’t use force scream after rupture at gore effect? (Carnage). I’m still level 32, and i was using: gore + rupture + force scream… Is that wrong even for a level 32? Ah, and an off question: Are you Brazilian, I mean, your name…

    • Carlos Eduardo Mata

      Venezuela, not brazil… and simple, Gore reduce Armor AKA increase armor penetration, abilities with Kinetic/energy dmg will get more benefit from it since Internal/elemental is not mitigated by the armor itself, so basically using rupture (direct hit is weak, dot is internal) is a waste of dmg in the Gore widnow, using before is better and keep Scream / Ravage / Massacre / Vicious Throws and DST inside Gore window.s

      • Nikolas Mandaji

        Oh, sory, I mistyped it, I’m actually using this sequence at level 35: gore > ravage > force scream at the first time, and then, when the CD of gore ends, I do gore > force scream… Is that wrong??? Oh, ok, Venezuela is close to here hehe sometimes I forget that you guys share some names with us hehe

        • Carlos Eduardo Mata

          thats just an opener, you want scream only with Execute proc 100% crit chance, and it triggers from Ataru hits, and ataru hits have higher chance with massacre, so using a scream that early would just mean you didnt crit it most of the time, considering the second Gore is refreshed usually right away during the first gore, at that point you should have your Scream available to auto crit

      • Nikolas Mandaji

        i mean, your guide says to use this rotation: “gore > massacre > ravage > assault > vicious throw” then the second window of gore: “gore > massacre > force scream…”. I mean, is that wrong to use force scream after ravage? Sry, i’m really new to this game…

  • Mortúùs

    I’ve got a question about the carnage spec, is it absolutely vital to have at least 100% accuracy? I have 99.55% at the moment, and will have slightly more when I can switch one of my enhancements from a 72 to a 78. If I wanted to up my accuracy with another enhancement, I would have to sacrifice surge, which is currently at 77.35%.

    • Mortúùs

      Also, assuming you do answer these questions, how did you figure out the nature of force camo as a threat dump? I had no idea it worked that way.

      • Ulysses

        I think that the ability says that it drops threat.

        • Mortúùs

          Yes, but it doesn’t say that the enemy is required to have targeted you in order for it to work.

          • Veco

            My threat table goes to zero on every parse engine I use (torparse, parsec, etc) when I hit force camo but its possible thats just a programing thing. I swear Carlos talked about how they figured out it only works if you have been targeted but I can’t find it.

            • benny

              You can’t cause that is not how it works

              • Carlos Eduardo Mata

                dont be like the guys on the jug thread saying stuff you dont know / test… in the jug tanking i believe Dulfy guide theres a complete argument where i provide multiple Combat logs explaining how it works and how it doesnt work, also discussing the anomaly that it might have inside operations (where it tends to work most of the time regardless).

                But unfortunately on our tests, Massacre, as an ability, works that way, with combat logs to prove it. IF the Environment or boss mechanics change it or force it work a different Way, thats a possibility because it seems like it does, but thats like Saying Cloaking screen “not necessary” drop you out of combat because on some fights you get pulled in right before from mechanics, where this is false, it drops you out of combat reason why your medpac CD restart. Same for Camo, it doesnt work on mobs that have not targeted you and it doesnt drop you off combat :).

              • benny

                Felt the need to respond as someone who loves this game and cannot stand misinformation being spread. As you seem not to be someone to listen to reason I decided to go to the source itself.
                Cameron Winston
                Technical Combat Design for Bioware
                Assisted the Primary Class designer with implementation, design, and look/feel for Class abilities and skill trees in Star Wars, the Old Republic.

                As a Technical Designer, I was responsible for maintaining and enforcing scripting standards used throughout the project. In addition, I was of of the primary designers for the AI Pipeline tools revamp, enabling more designers to work on AI development at a a time.

                Threat is calculated based on damage done, plus or minus certain modifiers, with one damage translating directly into one point of threat. These modifiers are always called out in the abilities which adjust them.

                Healing generates less threat than damage and is split evenly among all enemies you are currently fighting.

                De-taunt abilities reduce your threat level by a flat percentage of its current value.

                Threat drops work on all mobs that are aggroed to you but not necessarily targeting you.

              • http://dulfy.net/ Dulfy

                Can you link the source for this sentence ” Threat drops work on all mobs that are aggroed to you but not necessarily targeting you.” because the source you are using stops at De-taunt abilities reduce your threat level by a flat percentage of its current value. Healing generates less threat than damage and is split evenly among all enemies you are currently fighting.

                http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-april-20th-2012

              • Carlos Eduardo Mata

                mmm right, this is a very simple way to explain how threat works what does this prove your point?… threat is genated by X points depending on abilities, and threat drops, drop threat by a % amount when used? that doesnt say anything actually thats just the way to explain new players how threat works.

                did you bother taking your time to read the other comment and the logs? or you found the “source” for that too?… because unfortunately it totally proves it wrong, because i have logs where i have X amount of threat generated and Camo doesn’t reduce any, so i recommend you reading through the logs instead of finding a “source” that doesnt explain anything, he just says “de-taunt abilities reduce your threat lvl by a flat percentage” anyone knows that, there are different types… warriors unfortunately dont have a “real Thread drop”, both are in combat abilities that have this secondary effect.

                all classes but warriors have an ability which only effect is “reducing threat towards your enemies, or all enemies” depending, however this doesnt necessary means they are the only abilities that does that. Cloaking screen for example, it is not a threat drop, however dropping from combat is a threat drop. Operatives have TWO threat drops. One that drops a % amount and one that drops 100%..

                so if instead of finding an useless source that explains nothing, and doesnt say “force camouflage” anywhere, go read the logs, the logs are clear there how it works and how it doesn’t, dont call misinformation something that you just havnt taken the time to analyze the right way.

                Again saying Force Camouflage will always force you to Drop threat on all targets, its like saying Cloaking screen is a 100% threat drop, both are false, they just happen to work that way depending on an environment. Cloaking screen drops you from combat on a fight, if you in a raid yo uwill remain in the operation, where you can stealth rez or heal, but anything will pull you back in combat like mechanics, heals and Dots. While outside of a Phase you will just drop out of combat and reset the fight, in fact the only reason fight is not reset is because boss is fighting 8-16 players. on the other hand Force camouflage in most cases on boss fights will drop your threat simply because the Raid mechanic / environment Forces you to be targeted by the boss, while if you go in a group or with someone else, let him get the threat of an enemy you can do 1351321351 dmg, if the target never targeted you, and you force camouflage, you will get exactly 0 threat dropped… its tested there in the logs… The way it works or doesnt work in an operation is different, i am not a coding expert to analyze why / how it works specially there, but unfortunately, thats not how the ability seems to work in all cases.

                Edit: seems like torparse removed the logs up there since their stupid server transfer has been a mess, if you are still skeptic on how it works, i will go find them again later to show you :D.

              • Carlos Eduardo Mata

                here you go:

                the way it work is interesting, but unfortunately you must give
                things proper try before giving wrong
                information, let me show you:

                you will need to go to Log then Ctr + F and type down “camouflage”

                camo on dummy, hes not targeting you

                http://www.torparse.com/a/5472
                no threat.

                camo on a full group pulled by me alone

                http://www.torparse.com/a/5472… threat drop

                camo on a group pulled by dulfy, i had initial threat on group (first targeted me) then on dulfy… threat drop on all

                http://www.torparse.com/a/5472

                dulfy pulled, they never saw me, all group was alive, i had threat on 1 of them.. only 1 threat drop

                http://www.torparse.com/a/5472

                dulfy pulled and had aggro, boss never targeted me… no threat drop.

                http://www.torparse.com/a/5472

                Same mob, i pulled at the beggining, dulfy gained aggro after (during Camo), it dropped threat

                http://www.torparse.com/a/5472

                Same mob, dulfy had aggro, i gained aggro, she took it after, mob saw me, however was not the actual target.

                http://www.torparse.com/a/5472

                pulled an elite, dulfy pulled him, had initial aggro, i didnt attack,
                i let it hit me with an “AOE” ability, he never targeted me… no
                threat drop

                http://www.torparse.com/a/5472

                Dulfy pulled, she had aggro, i took AoE dmg AND stole aggro after, he targeted me, dropped threat.

                http://www.torparse.com/a/5472

                last one, first cmouflage, dulfy pulled i took the AoE dmg, he never targeted me, no threat drop
                second camouflage, i stole aggro from him, he targeted me, i force camo, threat dropped

                http://www.torparse.com/a/5472

                so yeah the information says, it has to be targeting you, thats a
                typo, it has to HAVE targeted you at any point…. Boss fights often
                have mechanics where boss would AoE dmg or aoE debuff or some kind and
                will often target you, some have this, most of them, this is why it
                happens in raids, however the ability doesnt work as you say..

                theres a reason why force camo doesnt work like force cloak or the
                other kinds, because it is different, camo and op vanish drop you from
                combat, 100% threat lost, in other words it is not negative, it is
                reduced to 0, you will start from scratch after doing that being
                overpowered as well as leaving u out of combat to refresh certain stuff
                like medpac or exploit recklessness on assassin, while force camo when
                it works, does the same effect, however it doesnt refresh your threat to
                0 because u never drop combat, instead of that it has “apparently” a
                really high formula that decreases its threat with negative points, to
                make sure your you wont steal aggro anytime soon to be just like force
                cloak.

                compare with a operative log, the one from my other raid night, go to the log and Find Cloaking Screen,
                http://www.torparse.com/a/5472
                it
                doesnt drop threat, it Drops from combat / gains stealth / enter
                combat, however this doesnt reduce threat, it just vanish you from the
                threat table, u go from 165465132 threat u had, to “dead”, exit combat,
                0, your next attack will be 0 + X threat, often putting you on the
                bottom of the list, so in order for camo to be just as good the threat
                reduced has a formula that reduce it by an incredibly high amount, but
                doesnt drop u from combat, and target has to have had targeted you at
                some point of the fight to work. force camo if you was targeted at some
                point will go from 250k threat – 1.5 mil threat… eventually being in
                -1.250.000 threat, all the threat u gain after that will be -1.250.000 +
                X Threat basically making it impossible for you to steal aggro ever
                again and giving you that awkward negative threat numbers. BUT boss or
                whatever had to have targeted you at any point, from any mechanics, or
                thanks to any ability that forces the boss to target you, otherwise it
                doesn’t work.

    • Carlos Eduardo Mata

      you should keep 100% acc all the time, there are discussion where people agree 99.60%> is doable, and it is however, it is up to RNG, basically you miss 1 attack per fight, but if that 1 attack is a auto crti Force Scream on Gore window for 9k dmg on an add that had 8K hp in an important fight, MAybe, just maybe, missing that ability will wipe your group, because the add killed you, or the mechanics required you to kill him that exact GCD. so yeah, doable, not recommended

  • Nérévar

    errrrrrr ! There’s something wrong in each specs you’ve reviewed. Guess… ;)

    • Carlos Eduardo Mata

      Where Exactly :)

  • Macedonicus

    I don’t see how you can make the case Carnage is RNG reliant when Annihilation isn’t. Carnage obviously has problems when Execute doesn’t proc and Slaughter procs too soon or too late. However Annihilation also has problems when Pulverize doesn’t proc or when it doesn’t get much Rage from RNG.

    • Carlos Eduardo Mata

      i guess thats true, IMO i think both are fine without RNG proc, i dont believe Carnage is RNG dependent, but when i put no in there everyone jumped on me like HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT lol, so ill just go with what make people happy, in theory almost all spec are RNG dependent, To be honest, anni has the less, at least for me, changes in my dps parses from pulverize than, the dps lost on a bad carnage opener :S. i guess both could be tied to RNG, i also think Arsenal Merc would laugh at us discussing these two specs have RNG :P

  • Koen

    Could you explain why 3 points in Malice for Carnage spec. It increases force critical chance, but only force ability is force scream which you should never use without execute proc anyway. Shouldn’t it be better to put those points elsewhere ?

    • Macedonicus

      The Rupture dot counts as Force, and it is the only talent to choose from that can improve your DPS. If you also spec into Hungering it makes it more likely to get the extra relic proc from Healing if the dot crits.

  • Tann

    Why time Rupture prior to your Gore window? I’m pretty sure the bleeds are internal and therefore not affected by armor to begin with. Wouldn’t it be better to go into your Gore window by refreshing your Blade Rush buff? I usually use Rupture..well Cauterize, cuz good guy..at the beginning of the downtime between Precision windows.

    • Carlos Eduardo Mata

      force scream or blade rush will usually be up each Gore window, you will rarely have time to use outside of the Gores, and if you do, you wont be able to use it at 1st CGD in next gore. The rupture even if not affected directly by the gore, it helps the dps for two reason:

      first you need those two fury points, it happens very often that you get a Gore window with 1 GCD left of fury for a berserk.

      Carnage rotation whole dps cycle on Gore windows, basically it is Fillers + Gore + Fillers + Gore, where Fillers are very weak, in this case usually you tend to use Gores on important parts (never delaying it, but when experienced you will time it to be used on important parts) avoiding just random adds for example, or burning through hard phases, so basically Using Rupture in the Fillers section, is just another GCD maybe on a random Add, on an non important part of the rotation (also massacre is better if you want to proc Execute), So if you have 1 part of the rotation that does 3200 dps and other that burst to 5000 dps in the important parts, i would like to maximize the dmg output of my important part of the rotation, in this case Rupture (berserk) + DST / gore + MS + RV + FS its better than filling rupture between Assaults + Rupture + Assault + Massacre in the fillers. All this is considering your MS + Assaults in the fillers triggered your Execute of course, so Rupture > Massacre when it comes as last GCD before Gore. Basically IMO it is better to have 3150 vs 5050 dps (filler vs Gore) than 3200 Vs 5000 Dps (filler Vs Gore) because Gores are usually done in the most important parts.

  • Eban

    Ello all, looking at the Carnage skill tree..the title says 5/36/5 but the image is 7/36/3…if your going by the image skill tree, then abit confused about putting points in hungering—seems a waste of 2 points, I read below some one saying about the heal helping proc your relics but we have roughly 27% force crit to even get the heal and then its 30% the relic will proc due to the heal plus the relics do say ‘healing an ally or performing a damaging attack..’ that hungering only heals yourself not an ally…and all we do is damaging attacks throughout so chances are 99.9% of the time those relics are proc’ing due to attacks and not the odd self heal..(plus 1% self heal is not even worth talking about its so small) ..wouldn’t it be better to use those 2 points say in Decimate to up your smash or Cloak of Carnage to get a couple of rage points every now and then(can never have enough rage bonus’s)…anyway just a thought..love the website and guides btw

    • Carlos Eduardo Mata

      the talent tree is good, the points given outside were wrong. decimate is useful if you have an AoE fight thats for sure, thats up to the raider to chooes also for cloak of carnage if they find the extra Rage more useful than it.

      However you are mistaken on the relic chance, each crit will give a 100% self heal that has 30% trigger extra relic. Rupture has 6 ticks * 27-30% crit chance = at least 2 crits with a 30% trigger per relic (if using both you have 30+30 / 30 + 30 %) you do have a HUGE chance of double procing it, Think of it this way, 1 Proc, only 1 proc, is a 5-7 dps increase at least (in theory)… thats more dps than decimate (0) and Cloak of carnage “in general” depending on fight will give you. Basically if Jug dps uses their Endure pain 1 Heal each 2 minutes to try to trigger their relic, and it works, pretty sure 6 /30% chance heals every 15 second (9 downtime) is a dps increase.

      I am not a big fan of using Def CDs as dps abilities, at this point ive seen more people waste Cloak of shadows for that talent on a Random weak hit to get rage or even seen them just taking extra dmg (unnecessary) to proc the talent, and then not having the CD needed for a more important part. theres a space for everything depending on the fight, so it will find its use for sure in some fights and dps pushes, however, i would rather have my Cloak sitting there ready for when i need it for Defensive, than extra rage that You, me and everyone know, it is not needed, since the rotation works perfectly well without it :D.

      It is a valid point, however i prefer keeping my Def Cd as Defensive and Offensive as Offensive, you can find use for it in many fights too :)

      • Eban

        Heh Carlos thanks for the reply, think I understand your point but are you saying ‘double proc’ as in if the relic is ticking through a damage attack and rupture crit ticks a heal it reproc’s..because that be very interesting. Was under the impression once the relic is activated that it runs then cooldown or do you mean ‘double proc as in proc’ing both relics together?

  • Kaelandros

    Annihilation Spec – I simply have a recommended change in the talent tree. Currently you have 2 points in Phantom and 0 points in Subjugation. I find that I need the shorted CD on Disruption a lot more than I need a longer cloak effect or faster run speed. I had pretty much the same for everything else with the exception of swapping those two points.

    • Carlos Eduardo Mata

      disruption is used….0 times in an operation… for the only class/ spec that has two reliable Interrupts (8 sec + Force Charge) it is a complete waste of talent, maybe there will be that one fight where you can use anni mara to interrupt 3 straight things (we can think back to NiM EC minefield fight) but thats just a case.

      • Sciclex

        I would not include Force Charge as an Interrupt for Annihilation as it is used in normal rotation, and would be unreliable as an interrupt. For fights like Draxxus and Corruptor Zero the quick interrupt is VERY important, allowing other DPS to focus elsewhere and not have to call out or find a rotation for interrupts.

        I would say it should be on a fight by fight basis, so there should be a note added such as other specs that it can be traded between the 2 depending on the situation.

        • Kaelandros

          Those are the current endgame fights I was thinking of. It will be no doubt that much more important when nightmare is released

  • Eban

    Another little question…Carnage wise why chose the might augments? When I swapped all my might augments to overkill I get an increase in stats for primary damage/Melee bonus damage/force bonus damage and only 1% crit drop….or am I missing something ? :)

    • KeyboardNinja

      Might augments are slightly better than power augments for all four specs. And by “slightly” I mean like “2 DPS”. Power augments are perfectly viable, though they will generally produce a higher top-end parse at the expense of some reliability (the variance between your best and worst parses will be much higher).

  • KeyboardNinja

    A couple things…

    I agree with Macedonicus: Annihilation is pretty RNG-dependent. I think it’s probably still less RNG-dependent than Carnage (failure to proc Execute going into your first Gore really sucks), but the RNG element is still very prominent. This is particularly true during the execute phase.

    A minor quibble on when specs should be used… I find that Annihilation actually works best on bosses with interrupted uptime. Carnage is very, VERY uptime sensitive, since you need to be hitting the boss during your Gore window (duh), and you need to be hitting the boss during not-your-Gore window (to proc Execute and to build rage), which basically means that you’re pretty screwed if you have enforced downtime that’s hard to predict. A good example of a boss like this is Tyrans, where you’re forced away from the boss at various intervals that don’t line up well with your rotation. I generally parse a LOT higher in Watchman than in Combat when I’m doing Tyrans, despite the fact that I know Combat a heck of a lot better.

    Your Combat spec is good, though I would move one of the points from Hungering into the Cloak of Pain talent. You don’t need to max the talent in order to get the double proc, and the extra rage from Cloak of Pain is insanely valuable. I really can’t overstate how much I abuse this talent. On some fights, correctly timing CoP has literally made a difference of 300+ DPS. That’s a pretty impressive offensive CD. If it weren’t for the double proc thing, both points should be in that talent.

    Using Dual Saber Throw before your first Gore is a HUGE risk. You’re playing with fire because Slaughter isn’t on ICD when you open, and so it can proc off of three separate abilities in your opener before you get to Gore. If you remove Dual Saber Throw, that number shrinks to just one (Force Charge), since you can cheat Gore forward a bit such that it is activated before the Ataru hit from Battering Assault. The minor DPS increase due to having DST before your first Gore is massively overshadowed by the loss of DPS from losing half of your Gore uptime in the opener.

    Also, the opener given is mistimed. With Berserk up, you can squeeze two abilities *and* a Ravage under your first Gore, which means that your opener has us assaulting under Gore. A better opener is as follows:

    Charge > Battering > Gore + Massacre > Ravage > Force Scream OR Dual Saber Throw OR Massacre > Gore + Vicious Throw > etc

    You want to get Force Scream as early as possible if it procs due to relic procs, since your relics are almost certainly rolling by the time you get into Ravage. Massacre should be your last ability in the first Gore window if Slaughter *hasn’t* proc’d yet and Execute didn’t proc. Otherwise, if Execute didn’t proc but Slaughter did (sigh…), then Dual Saber Throw is good. There is no need to space the first two Gore windows by a filler GCD, since we only get one Force Scream in the opening pair, and delaying the second Gore in the opener makes things really touchy going into your third Gore.

    It’s worth noting that using Vicious Throw and Dual Saber Throw before Gore will result in a DPS increase if you can pull it off, but I’ve found that this is something that is almost exclusively confined to dummy parsing. On an actual boss with varying hitbox sizes, movement and instance-related lag, I simply cannot reliably implement this strategy. It’s not much of a loss when you fail to do it with Dual Saber Throw, but putting Vicious Throw before Gore in the hopes of getting a fourth ability and then *failing* is a major DPS loss. After a bit of log crawling, I discovered that most of the top-parsing Carnage Marauders (e.g. Ranick) weren’t actually using this trick. That, together with the fact that it’s nearly impossible to replicate on a boss, leads me to not use it at all. I think that if there were a boss with really, really tight DPS requirements, I would probably spend some wipes experimenting with the timing to be able to pull it off, but it’s just not worthwhile otherwise.

    Regarding your Rage spec, 5/5/36 is not actually the optimal spec. With the incredible amount of rage generation built into the spec, there is no reason to spec into the rage refund on Vicious Slash and Vicious Throw. Instead, put those three points into the off hand damage talent (giving you 2/8/36). The DPS jump from that switch is very significant. It also makes the rage management feel a little bit more like a real spec, since you suddenly have to worry about rage management and timing, with the benefit being higher DPS from the off hand damage. It is impossible to Smash more frequently than once every 9 seconds on average (due to the 18 second cooldown on Force Crush), and this frequency is still attainable even with the higher cost on Vicious Slash.

    The single-target damage in rage is definitely low, but it’s a lot higher than most people give it credit for. The spec has a lot of burst control (as you note). More in fact than Carnage does, since delaying burst in Carnage results in a reduction to that burst (due to loss of Slaughter, etc). Delaying burst in Rage results in more burst, since more of your cooldowns will come up in the interim. The burst itself is lower than what Carnage can do, but it’s still appreciable. And of course, AoE. :-) Unless the boss in question is categorically gated by sustained DPS (think: NiM Tyrans will almost certainly be a sustained DPS check), Rage is a perfectly viable choice. If the fight has a lot of stop-and-go burst phases with interrupted uptime, Rage might actually be a better choice than the other two specs even if the fight remains predominantly single-target.

    Of course, Hybrid >> All. :-( I really hope they nerf that soon…

    • Carlos Eduardo Mata

      the cloak talent for 2 on hungering seems like a good idea actually, didnt think of it like on leth spec.

      the anni / carnage dmg uptime on the boss is obvious, considering dots and not dots, pretty much goes with all specs Leth Vs MM or Leth vs Conceal :S.

      i disagree with your rage spec, doing that will give slight dps increase on Offhand, but most of the time you will end up using assaults because the refund on rage does help, every couple rotations you will found out that you proc berserk right on your last 3 Rage available. if you doing a 60+ Vicious Slash per fight, you pretty much losing 60 Rage, which in most cases would end up being 10-15 assaults to fill in non berserk phases :S.

      your DST wont proc Gore because you use them at the same time, the only two abilities that fit before a Gore window are VT and DST and this is the difference between good and awesome dps (sometimes a dummy cant measure this like boss fights considering RNG). so by the time you DST / Gore at the same time u have DST + MS + RV + AS in the gore window… then you have VT / Gore + FS + MS + MS in the gore window.. while an opener not doing this will be: Gore + MS + RV + DST + Assault outside gore window + second Gore… Of course FS used earlier is better, but rarely happens, so i wanted it to play safe, otherwise people will start the discussion “this never happens, you cant put a rotation with RNG” bla bla bla, like no all guides, so basically up to that point you will have your Force Scream up which actually happens the majority of the time.

      it really depends how/when on a boss fight to use DST / VT before Gore, it is possible, it doesnt require much, you just click DST / Gore at the same time, it has absolutely no magic in it, Gore doesnt respect GCD so u can click it anytime, the Gore effect actually triggers before the actual dmg, so there is no animation delay there, not using that is a dps lost (even if small), well timed DST / Gore on multiple adds fights hitting boss + Adds is huge. Same with VT specially under 30%. doing this can be hard and confusing, but so is playing Rollbang in a raid and it gives its benefit for the few 2-3 people that manage to pull it off constantly :). DST is harder than VT to use since it is faster, however VT is super simple to fit in before Gore window, even with boss moving i dont see what extra difficulty would there be on a boss fight to not be able to use this compared to dummy, its like Acid blade, i can click it anytime, up to a point where i sometimes use it twice for clicking twice like an idiot lol, nothing limits it :S.

      i agree that opener is good, thats the usual opener (if FS procs) however i found an increase in dps after way too many parses figuring out DST and VT by almost 20-30 or higher at some points. so anyone who can master this might be the difference between Great and Awesome dps, just like Rhuarc does with rollbang on his raids, no one would encourage it, but there he is :P.

      • KeyboardNinja

        My guildmaster mains Focus spec on her sentinel. She finds that she only has to use Strike/Assault once every 2.5 minutes, despite being spec’d 2/8/36 (and note that she still uses Force Sweep once every 9 seconds). The reason for this appears to be related to focus/rage capping during Zen/Berserk. It’s nearly impossible to avoid capping if you have the cheaper Slash/Vicious Slash, just because you can’t dump focus/rage fast enough. The more expensive Slash/Vicious Slash fixes this problem and dramatically increases your off-hand damage in exchange. In general, the way that you keep up with the focus costs is use Cauterize/Rupture on cooldown. It’s better damage per resource by far, especially when Slash/Vicious Slash is more expensive.

        Also, relating to all of the discussion about the threat drops: Carl, you really should retest the threat drops. Cloud Mind works exactly the same as Chaff Flare. There is no such thing as a “targeted” threat drop, as can be seen quite easily by activating Cloud Mind with no target at all after building some threat (read the combat log). Force Camo also works exactly the same (does NOT require being targeted) except that it also forces a target swap. I have combat logs which demonstrate all of this, and I can offer suggestions for testing threat mechanics rigorously in-game. I sent all of this (including repeatable testing methodologies) to Dulfy, but I’m not sure it got passed along.

        • Carlos Eduardo Mata

          that sounds interesting, would have to test that focus without using the refund, i guess with some dmg taken fury would make up for the fury that might lose from not having it.

          as far as cloud mind yeah some people have actually told me that and i just double checked and they were right “wipes your enemies thoughts” i dont know why i had the impression it was in singular and targeted (thats how i used to do it with my sorc back in the days) so not sure if they changed it a long the way or just fixed it but yeah its AoE.

          as far as camo ive tested it too and ive correctly tested it that in a normal environment it doesnt drop aggro at all if the target has not targeted you… in raid i know it usually works, but other variables are in game too like forcing everyone to enter combat at the same time etc idk… its super easy to test out, just go with someone else, pull a elite mob let him build aggro, then do as much dps as you want and Camo without him targeting (he can even hit you with AoE if you want) and you will see you wont get threat drop at all, According to both parsers and Torparse upload, tested it multiple times, honestly not sure if my logs are fucked up, but thats not how it seems to work, regardless of what it seems to inside of an operation.

          • KeyboardNinja

            I think if you’re not in an instance with someone else, it will probably drop your threat 100% due to the enforced target swap. Being in an instance with someone will retain the fight context, since Force Camo doesn’t actually take you out of combat (unlike Force Cloak). In my message to Dulfy, I suggested testing inside a Heroic instance in some daily area somewhere.

            Aside from that, the game script files themselves actually list Force Camo, Cloud Mind, Intercede, Chaff Flare, and all of the other threat drops using the exact same (character-for-character) description. This isn’t the *most* reliable way of determining what an ability does, but it gets the job done.

            For example, the script files explain why it is that Force Camo (and Undying Rage) don’t work on Lightning Field in Nightmare Mode. Basically, it’s because Force Camo doesn’t increase your damage reduction, it reduces your damage taken. This distinction is significant, because the game considers these to be two different variables. It’s like the difference between Overcharge Saber and Invincible (Overcharge Saber is slightly better, despite claiming to be 25% vs Invincible’s 40%). Anyway, Lightning Field in nightmare mode applies a stacking debuff which most visibly reduces your movement speed down to almost nothing. More invisibly though (as in, not on your character sheet), it actually *increases* your damage taken by almost 400%! So, if your damage taken is increased by 400%, that means it’s starting from 500%, you reduce it by 99% using Undying Rage and you get…401%. So, Undying (and Camo) are both working just fine on Lightning Field, but they don’t feel like they are since you still get absolutely walloped by the resulting damage. I’m fairly certain this was done specifically so that Marauders couldn’t cheese the mechanic (much like how Titan VI’s Launch is changed in NiM into an auto-kill, whereas Carnage Marauders can Camo through it in HM and take about 6k damage).

            • Carlos Eduardo Mata

              answer was too long with logs but heres my answer and how i tested, they way you guys think it works, its false as well :)..

              https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fpliQtcoNi7eVgPoafCanuiUg2NYRElLtRqHlcVFLcE/edit?usp=sharing

              • cmreis

                I tested this yesterday in HM Dread Council and it happens you two have been discussing it. I have examples at the beginning of the fight of Force Camo usage both immediately before pulling aggro and after. Force Camo did no threat drop when I wasn’t targeted and actually was targeted by Bestia a couple seconds after using it. When I used it after being targeted it was like a 651k threat drop.

              • Carlos Eduardo Mata

                yeap i know ive tested it, now its up to everyone who “has a different opinion” to test themselves :). i am pretty sure most of the bosses mechanics forces them to target you to do a debuff / dot / hit which is what cause you to be able to use Camo inside certain boss fights on certain phases.

                there are 3 Types of AoE: Trasher style Equal: whole room X dmg, some like Draxxus big guys which is conal/reticle which targets no one, but does an Area attack that would hit you but doesnt exactly targets you, in these causes i am almost positive this kind of mechanics will not always force them to /target you, since they are basically just doing Terrain AoE.

                on the other hand abilities like P2 D.council Brontes, the lightning rays seem to be hitting each person regardless of where you are which seems to be a personal targeting Attack (single target actually), same with Nefra dot, it seems like boss would be forced to Target you to deploy the dot on you, which in these causes camouflage would work right after.

        • Carlos Eduardo Mata

          i could easily change it if that will make people be less mad but ive tested several times it doesnt work like that in multiple scenarios (beside boss fights), i mean ive done it multiple times, test with a dummy if you want, you do as much dmg as u want and camo and drop 0 threat, while any other threat works drops threat… group with someone and do the same with an elite in oricon, no threat dropped at all… tested over and over and over again… in fact pull an AoE group, have a tank taunt them, Smash them all, and steal aggro from 1, you will notice you will only drop threat on that specific mob. AT LEAST, thats what happened in our tests… maybe my logs or i were drunk every time i read through the logs lol… i could give it a test on a heroic area for example or phase, thats what i am thinking and what ive said multiple times, phases tend to have something that forces you to trigger the effect, but in the normal environment it doesnt. so what is the correct definition? it works inside but it doesnt work outside, we dont know what forces it to work inside an operation most of the time in all bosses.

          Edit: we tested in a heroic area, just not “phased”

          • KeyboardNinja

            Well, I think it’s really just a difference of instanced-vs-not-instanced and the way that the game treats group combat differently in each environment (e.g. not pulling you into combat when your group member agros outside an instance). But aside from that…

            My opinion is that you should explain the way the ability works on bosses. Min-maxing threat drop usage for trash is irrelevant. Min-maxing for dailies is irrelevant. The only thing that matters (from a PvE standpoint) is bosses. If we know that it works on bosses in a particular way, then that is for all intents and purposes the *only* way it works. See also: Obfuscate. :-)

            • Carlos Eduardo Mata

              yeah i agree on the instance vs not instance, i have yet to try on a trash mob and look at it inside the phase other than just a boss.

              yeah i would think that too, but idk i felt the “correct” way is the one that works on every environment (outside phase) since the thing thats changing its use is something from bosses or inside a phase… because under this perspective, then Grapple / force pull (beside threat) should be useless since they dont work with boss immunity or like obfuscate too yeah or Diversion, maybe what works on a boss doesnt work on an add? have you tried a log droping threat on fights like draxxus for example? or grob, not sure how that would work usually not forced to use it on those phases lolol.

              maybe adding an extra line with inside phases it should work all the time or in most boss fights it is not required for him to target you before in order to work… To cover both sides of the effect i guess?

              • KeyboardNinja

                I haven’t tried on Draxus. Come to think of it, I haven’t tried on any fight which involves adds without the special Obfuscate (ops boss) immunity. That would be very interesting. It certainly would be really weird if we discovered that it works one way on Draxus himself and another on his adds. I’ll try to remember to test next time I do DF on my sentinel.

                As for Force Pull, at least it gives threat. :-) I barely even think of it as a repositioning tool anymore (actually that’s not true; explody droids before Grob’thok get yanked every single time).

              • Carlos Eduardo Mata

                yeah i know for bosses works so not sure if its tied to boss mechanics or phase, because i know you will have -16513515 threat as always, but not sure if it actually dropped from adds or not? will try to give it a try myself too.

                and yeah force pull is at least better lol ik, but i have not tried every single aspect of a boss fight (before, after, during, with adds) to really say “it does work all the time” when outside it doesnt :S, ill try to look at more logs and see :P.

              • Carlos Eduardo Mata

                alright so i just did a run with my marauder, and yeah its still more close to what i am explaining than what people think, on trash doesnt matter if you hit them or not, it usually doesnt work unless they have AoE, same with Boss fight adds (most of them)… while on boss, you are not tied to the boss until he does a mechanic that affect you… on other words i have nefra/ calph logs where i camo like 3 seconds in after doing few GCD and no threat drop at all, once he does the Dot, or i get hit by an AoE (comingfrom boss) the rest of the Camo does work… the same with adds, “barriers” forces the mechanic on draxxus, once i hit it, it drops threat automatic, however for the adds, 1 time only 2/3 dropped the rest 4-5…. its a really weird mechanic, but IMO its still closer to what i am explaining, people is just used to use it deeper in the rotation instead of finding out its real use… ill post the logs tomorrow if u want since its too late… now the next real thing is trying if AoE does triggers it… like Trasher or Kell drake with their slams.

  • Larry

    Where are you finding that Cloud Mind only lowers the threat of a single enemy? The following parse has a total of 4 different mobs in it, and it lowers the threat towards all of them. 3 Dread Host Soldiers, as seen by the three “hits” of cloud mind, and 1 Dread Host Slaver. http://www.torparse.com/a/582968/1/0/Threat

    This makes me question what you say on the other threat mechanics as well. You got something so simple to parse wrong.

    • Carlos Eduardo Mata

      the cloud mind threat wipe was just a mistake from old content bug, i usually most of the time auto target an enemy when using it so have not really tested it much, but yeah people is right is just an average AoE threat drops.

  • LordElfa

    Mara DPS guide: Leap+smash.

  • Coradux

    What is the dps value for Hybrid Marauder at the OP dummy?

  • JakeReed

    Almost exactly how I have always played my smash maurauder.

  • Erik

    how much will the hybrid skill set be affected by the class changes in 2.7 is it still viable?

    • Ren Valdez

      It is still viable – just tested it out – pulling on average 2.6k on the ops training dummy in mostly 162 gear with only Unnatural Might up.

  • Eban

    Hi….question about stats.. On Carnage its 68/74% surge so when you hit that what do you gear? Accuracy? I have 100.8% melee accuracy already…does it improve your dps to go higher (say 102%) or should you increase surge above 74%?

  • Macedonicus

    I just wanted to make a note based on what I did on the PTS tonight. An Annihilation Marauder with the 6 second Interrupt can guarantee interrupts on the gold/elite adds on Corrupter Zero (the special ones with casts) with just Disruption. So having an Anni Marauder sit on them isn’t a bad strategy.

    • Macedonicus

      That was meant as a ‘6 second interrupt isn’t really a bad idea’ thing.

  • Mortúùs

    Not sure if anyone is still answering questions here, but I’ve got one. I am Carnage spec, and just got a piece that put my accuracy at 101.05%. Is it worth taking a point out of Narrowed Hatred at the bottom of the Carnage tree to lose this extra 1% accuracy, and should I put it into Hungering, Cloak of Annihilation, or Decimate? (I have two points in Cloak of Carnage instead of the two in Hungering shown here).

    • Ren Valdez

      1) If you’re using set pieces – Go spend some commendations (Elite or Ultimate) on a piece of gear and replace all but armorings*
      2) If not using set pieces – do the same.

      *Set bonuses come from the armorings

  • zulvio

    Dulfy, opening rotation for annihilation is wrong it gives only 28 stacks of fury not 30. Please give the correct one.

  • Guest

    Please condense this page for god sakes.

  • Jinus

    http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=738638 Deadly Saber now requires the Marauder to be in Juyo Form – goodbye DotSmash ;_; ?

  • Jonny

    Now the hybrid is changed Deadly Saber now requires to be in Juyo Form…so what updates hybrid marauders should make? what should change?

    • Zar

      Because of the change hybrid is no longer viable – you’ll want to try another spec. Annihilation will be best for fights with fewer targets (Nefra, Grob, Tyrans, Council) while carnage will be good for fights with multiple transitions (Brontes, Cal, Raptus) and rage will be good for fights with multiple adds (Draxus, Corruptor, Bestia)

  • Ditto

    No mas dotsmash… was fun while it lasted

  • Alex

    Well… I’m almost sure Dulfy no longer answer here :( But I’ll still try my chance at it.
    Why Carnage and Anni has point in Malice?? Carnage only Force attack is Force Scream which is an auto crit. And Anni has no force attack….
    The only reason I can see is if Rupture’s DoT and Deadly Saber’s DoT would be Force. Is that the case? Cause the abilities are classed melee on live.

  • quest

    please fix this, I just used a spec and now read I can’t due to a change? fix these please…….

  • Grayson Thomas

    so no crit for annihilation

  • Quack

    Will you be updating the Carnage guide for the 2.10 changes?

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