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Disciplines Shadow of Revan SWTOR

SWTOR Sorcerer Disciplines and Utilities for 3.0

List of sorcerer disciplines and utilities shown on the Discipline livestream for 3.0. This is a work in progress with more added later.

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Discipline Path

Unfortunately only Lightning discipline is covered in the livestream in detail.

Legends:

  • Circles = Utility Slot, outline is red when unselected.
  • Green Squares = Abilities
  • Blue Squares = Passives

Lightning Discipline Path

swtor-lightning-discipline-path

Note: The Torhead Tooltips used here are pre-3.0 and used to give you an idea of the passive. The passives that are written down are directly from the livestream and are 3.0.

Level Ability/Utility/Passive
10 Chain Lightning (Ability): Delivers an arc of lightning that deals 321-361 energy damage to up to 8 targets within 8 meters. 3s activation, 30m, 50 force, 6s cooldown.
11 Utility Slot
12 Lightning Storm (passive): Lighting Strike, Lighting Bolt, Thundering Blast, and Force Storm grant Lighting Storm when activated. Lightning Storm immediately finishes the cooldown on Chain Lightning and makes your next Chain Lighting activates instantly and consume 50% less Force. This effect cannot occur more than once every 10s.
16 Storm Brewing (passive): Increases the critical chance of Force Storm by 15% and its critical damage bonus by 30%
19 Utility Slot
20 Lightning Effusion (passive): Direct Force attacks grant Lighting Effusion when they critically hit, reducing the Force consumed by your next two non-channeled Force attacks by 75%.
24 Subversion (passive): Reduces the pushback suffered when activating Chain Lighting. Lighting Strike, Crushing Darkness, Thundering Blast, and Lighting Bolt by 75%. Additionally, you have a 25% chance when taking direct damage to gain Subversion, which causes your next Lighting Strike or Lighting Bolt to activate instantly. This effect cannot occur more than once every 8s and lasts for up to 15s.
26 Thundering Blast (ability): Sends a thundering blastwave at a target that deals 239-278 internal damage. Thundering Blast automatically critically hits targets affected by your Affliction. 1.5s activation, 30m, 50 force, 9s cooldown.
27 Utility Slot
28 Forked Darkness (passive): Crushing Darkness has a 30% chance to tick twice and make its target vulnerable for 45s. Vulnerable targets take 5% more damage from Force attacks. In addition, when you activate Thundering Blast, there is a 30% chance the ability will produce a second blast that strikes the same target for 30% damage.
32 Lighting Swarm (passive). Increase the maximum range of your Force attacks by 5 meters. Additionally, Chain Lighting immobilizes all affected targets for 0.5s and slows all affected targets by 50% for 6s.
35 Utility Slot
36 Convection (passive): Force Speed give 2 stacks of Convection which allows Lighting Strike and Lighting Bolt to be activated instantly.
40 Forked Lightning (passive): Lightning Strike, Chain Lightning, Lightning Flash and Lighting Bolt have a 30% chance to produce a second arc of lightning that strikes the same target for 30% damage. Additionally, Chain Lighting overwhelms its targets for 45 seconds. Overwhelmed target takes an additional 10% damage from area attacks.
41 Lightning Flash (ability): Blasts the target with a quick flash of lightning, which deals 247-286 energy damage, and grants Force Flash, which reduces the activation time of your next Crushing Darkness for 0.5s. This effect lasts up to 12 seconds. Instant, 30m, 50 force. 12s cooldown.
43 Utility Slot
44 Focal Lighting (passive): Damage dealt by Chain Lightning and Lighting Flash has a 100% chance and damage dealt by Lighting Strike and Lighting Bolt have a 50% chance to grant Focal Lighting, which increases alacrity by 1%. Stacks up to 5 times. Lasts 15s.
48 Chaos Nexus (passive): Forked Lightning is twice as likely to trigger while Polarity Shift is active. Additionally, increases the duration of Polarity Shift by 5s and reduce its cooldown by 15s.
51 Utility Slot
52 Reverberating Force (passive)
56 Conduction (passive): Each Forked Lighting and Forked Darkness reduces the active cooldown of Polarity Shift by 1s. In addition, being interrupted grants Unshakeable for 4s. This can only occur once every 15s.
57 Lightning Bolt (ability): Hurl a bolt of lighting at the target, dealing 226-266 energy damage. 1.5s activation, 30m, 30 force.
59 Charged Reaction (passive): Direct damage dealt by your Crushing Darkness and Chain Lighting abilities refreshes the duration of your Affliction on affected targets. In addition, Lightning Bolt increases your Force regeneration by 10% for 10s. Stacks up to 3 times.
60 Utility Slot

Madness – Discipline Path

swtor-madness-discipline-path

Note: The Torhead Tooltips used here are pre-3.0 and used to give you an idea of the passive. The passives that are written down are directly from the livestream and are 3.0.

Level Ability/Utility/Passive
10 Death Field (ability): Create a death field at the target location, dealing x internal damage and stealing life from affected targets to heal you for 30% of the damage dealt. Strikes up to 8 targets within an 8-meter radius.
11 Utility Slot
12 Madness (passive): Force Lightning no longer has a cooldown and deals 10% more damage.
16 Sith Efficacy (passive): Reduces the pushback suffered while activating Force Leach by 75% and Force Lightning by 100%. In addition, each time your Force Lightning deals damage, you recover 1% of your total Force.
19 Utility Slot
20 Deathmark (passive): Death Field places a deathmark on affected targets, increasing the amount of damage the target suffer from your next 15 periodic damaging abilities by 10%. Lasts 30 seconds.
24 Wrath (passive): Dealing damage with Force Lightning produces a stack of Wrath. At 4 stacks, Wrath causes your next Lightning Strike, Crushing Darkness, or Demolish to activate instantly, consume 50% less Force and deals 25% more damage.
26 Creeping Terror (ability): Paralyze the target in fear, dealing x internal damage over 18 seconds and immobilizing it for 2 seconds. The immobilizing effect cannot occur more than once every 9 seconds.
27 Utility Slot
28 Pestilence (passive): Death Field Spreads your Affliction and Creeping Terror to the target it damages, as long it daamges target already affected by your Affliction and Creeping Terror. In addition, Death Field overwhelms its targets for 45s. Overwhelmed targets take 10% more damage from area attacks.
32 Disintegration (passive): Increases the critical chance of Force Lightning and Lightning Strike by 5%.
35 Utility Slot
36 Force Horrors (passive)
40 Lightning Burns (passive): Damage dealt by Force Lightning has a 20% chance and damage dealt by Lightning Strike has a 60% chance to apply Lightning Burns to the target, which deals 835 energy damage restores 2 forces after 1 second.
41 Force Leech (ability): Steals life from an enemy, dealing x internal damage to the target and heal you for 50% of the damage dealt. 1.5s activation, 50 force, 30m, 12s CD.
43 Utility Slot
44 Lingering Nightmare (passive): Increase the duration of Crushing Darkness and Demolish by 2 seconds.
48 Creeping Death (passive)
51 Utility Slot
52 Parasitism (passive)
56 Lightning Barrage (passive): When a target affected by your Affliction takes direct damage from your Lightning Strike, Force Leech, or Demolish you gain Lightning Barrage which increases your next Force Lightning to channel and tick as fast. This effect cannot occur more than once every 10 seconds.
57 Demolish (ability): Crushes the target with devasting force, dealing x kinetic damage initially, plus an addition y kinetic damage over 6s. The target also becomes Vulnerable for 45s, increasing the damage taken from Force attacks by 5%. Shares a cooldown with Crushing Darkness. 2s activation, 30 force, 30m, 15s CD.
59 Devour (passive)
60 Utility Slot

Corruption  Discipline Path

swtor-corruption-discipline-path

Note: The Torhead Tooltips used here are pre-3.0 and used to give you an idea of the passive. The passives that are written down are directly from the livestream and are 3.0.

Level Ability/Utility/Passive
10 Dark Infusion (ability)
11 Utility Slot
12 Lucidity (passive)
16 Forceweaver (passive)
19 Utility Slot
20 Force Bending (passive)
24 Efficacious Currents (passive)
26 Innervate (ability)
27 Utility Slot
28 Sith Purity (passive)
32 Reconstruct (passive)
35 Utility Slot
36 Life Surge (passive)
40 Penetrating Darkness (passive)
41 Revivification (ability):
43 Utility Slot
44 Force Surge (passive)
48 Twisted Force (passive)
51 Utility Slot
52 Reverse Corruptions (passive)
56 Seeping Darkness (passive)
57 Roaming Mend (ability): Places a mending Force on a friendly target that heals them for x health the next time they take damage. After healing the target, Roaming Mend travels to another friendly target within 20m. Roaming Mend lasts up to 30s on each target and travels up to 3 times, healing up to 4 targets. Roaming Mend can be only placed on one target at a time. Instant, 50 Force, 30m, 15s CD.
59 Dark Concentration (passive). Crushing Darkness, Lightning Strike, Dark Infusion and Revivification grant Dark Concentration, which causes your next Dark Heal to activate instantly and consume no Force. This effect may not occur more than once every 10 seconds.
60 Utility Slot

Utility Selections

You need to have 3 Skillful utilities unlocked to advance to the Masterful utilities. You need 5 utilities unlocked (from either Skillful or Masterful or both) to advance to the Heroic utilities

These utilities are available to all 3 disciplines within an advanced class.

Tier Utility
Skillful Force Suffusion: Overload heals you and up to 7 affected allies for 191.
Skillful Chain Shock: Increase the damage dealt by Shock by 5%. In addition, Shock gains a 50% chance to produce a second Shock that deals 50% less damage.
Skillful Sith Defiance: Increases damage reduction by 3%
Skillful Tempest Mastery: Increase all damage dealt by Force Storm by 25%
Skillful Empty Body: Increases all healing received by 10%
Skillful Sap Strength: Targets stunned by your Electrocute suffer Sapped Strength when Electrocute wears off, which reduces all damage dealt by 25% for 10s.
Skillful Opposing Force: Lowers the cooldown of Electrocute by 10s. In addition, your Whirlwind affects up to 2 additional standard or weak enemies within 8m of the target.

Tier Utility
Masterful Suppression: Activating Cloud Mind grants Suppression, which increases damage reduction by 25% for 6s.
Masterful Corrupted Flesh: Reduces the damage taken from all periodic effects by 15%
Masterful Emersion: Force Speed grants Emersion, removing all movement-impairing effects and granting immunity to them for the duration.
Masterful Dark Resilience: Reduces the health spent by Consumption by 25%, and increase the healing done by Unnatural Preservation by 30%.
Masterful Backlash: Static Barriers you place on yourself erupt in a flash of light when they end, blinding up to 8 nearby enemies for 3s. The effect breaks from direct damage.
Masterful Electric Bindings: Overload binds its target in electricity, immobilizing them for 5s. Direct damage dealt after 2 seconds end the effect prematurely.
Masterful Lighting Barrier: Increase the amount absorbed by your Static Barrier by 20%.

Tier Utility
Heroic Surging Speed: Polarity Shift increases your movement speed by 50% while active. In addition, Force Speed lasts 0.5s longer and when Force Barrier ends, the active cooldown of Force Speed is finished.
Heroic Shapeless Spirit: Reduces all damage taken while stunned by 30%
Heroic Force Haste: Reduces the cooldown of Force Speed by 5s. Force Slow by 3s and Force Barrier by 30s.
Heroic Force Mobility: Thundering Blast, Innervate, and Force Leech may be activated while moving.
Heroic Conspiring Force: Targets affected by your Affliction are slowed by 30% for its duration.
Heroic Corrupted Barrier: Your Static Barrier, Force Barrier, and Enduring Bastion heal you by 2% of your total heal every second for as long as they last. The healing scales up to 8% with charges for Enduring Bastion.
Heroic Haunted Dreams: If your Whirlwind breaks early from damage, the target is stunned for 2s. In addition, Whirlwind activates instantly.

By Dulfy

MMO guide writer and blogger. Currently playing and covering SWTOR, GW2, and TSW.

164 replies on “SWTOR Sorcerer Disciplines and Utilities for 3.0”

Does the level column on the left mean the level at which we require those abilities? If so, thundering blast at level 26? A bit confused, as that’s currently the sorcerer’s strongest ability, when combined with other skills of the lightning tree. So in other words, are the skills within each tree of any class, no longer built around the top skill of the tree?

Yes the level column is the level when you acquire the abilities and passives. TB in this case would be acquired automatically at level 26 and not any earlier/later

Thanks, just wanted to be sure I was reading things correctly as I’m still trying to wrap my head around it. I hope they let you say if you like it or not when you get to the closed PTS, and yes I think they would be retarded if they didn’t invite you. 😛

I agree, I’m not really looking forward to this and I’m pretty worried it’ll be a letdown. It would be nice to have dulfy’s expert opinion on the situation before it actually hits.

Huh?

Isn’t this Lightning bolt is the same Lightning strike?

Same cost, same cast time. Whats the point? O_o

The only thing that makes difference is passive ability…

But they could make same thing with LS, isn’t it?

It is the same but it will be slightly stronger, thus, replacing lightning strike in the rotation of lightning. They want to give the different specs different abilities. So one might use Strike, the other uses now bolt.

“Force Mobility: Thundering Blast, Innervate, and Force Leech may be activated while moving.”

This, this is a thing of beauty!

Interesting, seem you will be able to have most of your rotation set by level 30 in the Sorc and I image the Sage’s case. If this is the case across the board, this is better then thought they would make it.

The Utility choices a great as well. Hope this is the case in every AC

Am I the only one who feels overwhelmed and stressed by this? It still seems like you have to relearn your entire class. ugh. God forbid you play more then one class too. This replaces that. This you can cast and move, this you can not. This you go to your trainer, this is automatic. It will be quite and adjustment for sure.

After three years this is a welcome change for me. I was hoping combat would freshen up a bit. It brings a certain newness back to playing.

The description of the lvl. 28 talent ” Pestilence” in madness tree sounds a bit gibberish.
Does Death Field refresh Affliction and Creeping Terror on affected targets?

From my understanding it will apply affliction and creeping terror to all the targets it hits as long as one of them already has them.

The best part of the new discipline system that I read above: INSTANT DOT REAPPLICATION! That will seriously make life SOOO much easier for all DoT specs in the game, assuming they all have it.

ahh crap i didn’t catch that. is that what they said on the cast? i missed it so i didn’t even bother finding out about it and then just guessed from looking at the discipline path set up

RIP hybrids. I was hoping they would at least have a utility a healer could select (in place of a healing utility that a healer would want in any raid content) to make dpsing slightly more tolerable in solo or other content that doesn’t require constant healing. 🙁

The follow utility points would give you some extra mobility to evade closing mobs, heal on the move, do additional damage and control:

Tempest Mastery: Increase all damage dealt by Force Storm by 25%

Chain Shock: Increase the damage dealt by Shock by 5%. In addition, Shock gains a 50% chance to produce a second Shock that deals 50% less damage.

Backlash: Static Barriers you place on yourself erupt in a flash of light when they end, blinding up to 8 nearby enemies for 3s. The effect breaks from direct damage.

Electric Bindings: Overload binds its target in electricity, immobilizing them for 5s. Direct damage dealt after 2 seconds end the effect prematurely.

Force Mobility: Thundering Blast, Innervate, and Force Leech may be activated while moving.

Corrupted Barrier: Your Static Barrier, Force Barrier, and Enduring Bastion heal you by 2% of your total heal every second for as long as they last. The healing scales up to 8% with charges for Enduring Bastion.

You’d also have 3 spare utility points to spend.

I noticed Tempest Mastery and Chain Shock would help me do more damage as a healer, but it doesn’t give me more to do (I still use them the same way). Being able to move while casting Innervate will probably only be relevant in high-pressure ops situations. Backlash is amusing, though the stun breaks on damage and if I already use Static Barrier for the shield, again, it doesn’t give me anything extra to do. Basically, while a couple Utilities may make me more effective in solo content, they won’t change the skills that I use to make it more interesting. This is compared to the hybrid spec where I could cast Force in Balance, then throw pebbles to get stacks for instant Mind Crush or Disturbance. Still pretty simple, but more interesting than DPSing in full heal spec, in my opinion.

Fair enough, but chances are most solo content will be fodder and die to a boosted Force Storm/Force Quake. You’ll have everything but FiB then.

Generally you don’t beat anybody by being a pale imitation of them.

You adopt good features and you expand upon them, and offer something up that differentiates you. For BW, that’s story.

So I guess here’s hoping the story is amazing?

And for reference, WoW lifted the collections system and bag sorting features from TOR. I expect TOR to lift the heirloom and homogenisation of stats across disciplines from WoW in a future update. My issue is simply the level of carbon-copy development that is occurring.

Then don’t complain. This is how MMORPG genre works here, just on the exception of a little uniqueness. I am simply stating that SWTOR will and can compete well against WoW, and possibly beat them in their own “turf”.

I see your point, but I think a big problem with major games now is the homogenisation of features and group think.

It’s the same penny pinching accountants and execs demanding staple features at the expense of creative freedom.

If you check and compare the skills WoW and SWTOR has offered, you can also see the complexity of the talent trees of both games. SWTOR came up with a very good system of skill, while WoW comes up with extra talents for you to use and glyphs(which are mostly cosmetic). SWTOR gives you MORE choices on passives, while WoW offers little in glyphs and talent trees, which saddens me that the glyphs will not be affected in the following patch at WOD.In WoW, Garrisons are just another way to call them housing your characters at SWTOR being called GSH, but, I consider the GSH more innovating than garrisons on WoW since it can only be built on Draenor. Somehow, Garrisons are more interactive than GSH since you can do quests there, which is also called conquests, as same here on SWTOR (except it favors strong guilds). Since I have no idea that you mentioned about bagging and collections on WoW, I’ll just follow on with your assumption. WoW barely makes Mystic mode for Raids, which SWTOR already made NiM Operations ages ago. GSF is the new pvp that is really nice (nothing new on pvp at WoW so far). Graphics on WoW improved far better than SWTOR on the following expansion. PvE mechanics on SWTOR is better than WoW for its storyline, rather than doing on WoW (KILL,COLLECT, TURN IN QUEST,REPEAT). So in my opinion, SWTOR is slightly in a better position than WoW.

But the quests in swtor are structured that way. Yes, a little story, nice voicing, but after a while you see someone you thought you saw before on another planet, maybe even with your face. Basically there are just planetary, class, some flashpoints and a pinch of side quests that have a plot.

You can decide.. what side are you’re on when you do storyline, make your choice.

In MoP I never found a single person claiming to have the “best build”. There were a few who gave it a go, but in the paragraph at the end they always claimed “this is better if you X but people who Y more will find this other ability to be loads more productive”. In the cases where an ability actually consistently beat another out for high mobility fights you always could swap just that ability by carrying a stack of “forget me dust”. I felt like all my choices were the best choice for me, but that none of them would be “wrong” for another person. That’s some good design.

A lot of the choices offered here will end up being cookie-cutter for a game mode (PvP, Raiding, soloing, etc…) Percent increase to the damage done by an ability you use regularly? That’s not going to be much of a “choice” for raiders who want to be competitive. That said, this is their first go at the system. Initially WoW’s glyphs had a similar problem.

The other side of the coin is that, while WoW isn’t only trying to offer player housing because of strongholds (it’s been on their “to do” for a long time), they are using them as a place to implement the “follower” system which is straight out of SWTOR playbook (where gathering/crafting is done by queuing up followers).

I’m a huge on GSF, so that’s a big selling point for SWTOR (really, I cannot stress how much I love playing GSF). The story-lines also add something the MMO market has been missing. I love having more options than “Accept” or “Decline”. Unfortunately, being an MMO people expect you to spacebar through it all (which I do while reading quickly so I still get the convo, don’t tell anyone).

The biggest downfall of SWTOR (which I realize not everyone has fully experienced) is that, in spite of the amazing design foresight shown in a lot of areas, their programming and UI teams (which I believe are at least partially outsourced) have created a game that doesn’t run well with some popular graphics cards, crashes randomly, has sound cut out at times, etc…

I played this game since beta, quit when I was mostly into PvP and a patch made my framerate go from 30s to below 10 in warzones (and I tried at least 4 different “fixes” and put my graphics down to low), came back when GSF came out and have been loving it, but haven’t found playing unsubscribed without spending coins to be too difficult for that game mode so I let my subscription fall off again (I haven’t spent a dime to play the way I want to lately, which isn’t good marketing design).

Then 2.10 took my processor from 40% to around 90% regardless of what I’m doing or where I am. I don’t know what they thought was so important to always be running in the background, but it wasn’t necessary before to do what I’m doing and it’s a big drain on my system resources.

I really wish the designers could get a good programming team and, with the lessons they’ve learned, start over with a completely different game engine. It’s a great idea with some serious technical problems.

I feel your problem about SWTOR’s downfall, but that can depend on the computer and settings you use to optimize the game, not to be telling you that you are wrong, no no no, just a prediction. The new system gives you the option to hybridize by selecting the utilities section of the system.

IMO at this point MMO genre just has covered about all sorts of gameplay modes, character set ups, that eventually the games will have similar set ups no matter what. WoW just happened to be doing stuff earlier, or even be the predecessor to all other MMOs that came after

I don’t think it has really covered everything it can do, quest design being an obvious frontier that could change dramatically.

Character wise, there’s a huge trend towards homogenisation so it’s more pick up and play. Then you’ve got a game like Path of Exile (not an MMO per se but obviously an RPG) which has gone in the other direction.

The problem is the competing needs for a sense of diversity and new ideas, alongside a need to allow it to be accessible.

WoW literally broke a huge portion of the ground that SWTOR is using here.

That in itself is fine if you’re using it as a base to build off, which should mean BW is hedging every ounce of creative fibre it has on aesthetics and story, and if RotHC is any indication, that’s not a solid bet.

It’ll be improvement upon that no doubt, but I’m disappointed that they’re not more honest in their language as to where they got the idea for this skill system.

idk how or what u mean.. this is literally Wow with star wars paint.. this is the exact same thing a ton of people hated when Wow dumbed itself down for more casual ppl.. This is going to kill any customization players once had.. and now no more hybrids or even attempting to make your character your own.. now its all just cookie cutter over simplified crap

Nope, you’re wrong. It gives you the option to hybridize your class spec by allowing you to use utilities as a way to make your classes more conventional. This makes the system both simple and complex on the same page as you have more choices to make. But as I said to my friend @Daftvaduhh, this is how the MMORPG genre works in the game industry.

You know… Now DF is REALLY reminds me KoTOR)))
But spread DoT’s all over the targets? Its too damn overpowered to be true -_-”
Of course if other DoT’ers will get similar mechanism or something different but equivalent to DF, it will explain why Madness sounds so OP at this moment.

Sniper class should be the most important part of the new system. Hopefully they give snipers more defensive utilities, snipers have been the most targeted class on any pvp situation.

It seems good, but I was hoping for something that could differentiate you more from all the other players in your same AC. If I’m fighting along side another Arsenal Merc, I’d like to see something that makes me think…”cool, they picked that utility that gives him that different attack which is a good compliment to the one I picked”. We’ll still basically be spamming the same skills in the same rotation with some possible minor differences in how that same ability affects the target.

Since 99% of the players are running around with the same talent trees – just varying in some flavor choices, the right step is to replace antique talents trees with something more modern and easier to manage. And ofc there will be mandatory Utilities for pve to minmax – leaving you with not much choice (exactly like it is now).

well I guess im in the 1% then. so the idea is screw me right. just like they did in swg!!!!!
I guess im done with star wars al together. I’m so sick of put all kind’s of money and time in a game for to change the system on me. Second time and it will be the last. maybe I should just give up on mmo’s.

Its entirely possible that its become baseline for all Inquisitors now. Obviously theres no confirmation, but developers generally do that when streamlining ehavily like this.

They said in the stream that certain buffs that basically everyone took (such as main stat boosts) will be rolled into class passives. They used the +100 force as an example of that

I was wondering about this as well. Especially for the classes that have their primary stat augments together with the boost to make it worth while. We’ll see, perhaps BW will rebalance the amount of crit/dmg primary stats give to compensate for the loss. 🙂

It sounds like they’re saying that for competitive playing, trying to optimize damage output, it will work exactly as it is now, which would imply there is no gain. However, for casual play, losing hybrids is rather unfortunate, as some are still quite enjoyable and add some variety and entertainment when the gear grind gets dull.

What is the benefit to this, other than saving BW time and money on development? I don’t see any actual positive outcome for this decision for the player base, I just see an opportunity for reducing overhead and boosting the bottom line.

well people like myself, get slapped in the face. it really awesome. I’ve been playing for 3 years now. I have tank/dps and heal/dps now I wont be able to jump back and forth. and I don’t use any of the online builds. and a lot of the time im doing better then anyone around me in pvp. now I have to conform to what they think I should be. what did they do higher the same team that killed swg? well swtor it’s been fun, I will miss you. R.I.P swtor………….

you must be one of the people I school all the time :D.. learn how to make a build of your own then you might get a bit upset too. I hope I get to kill you a few more time be for Dec. Cuz I will miss schooling fools like you.

Tssk tssk. You assume much?? This has nothing to do with me getting pwned by some dude who does not know nothing of mechanics on MMORPG’s. “Schooling” me, wont make up for your argument. Sad that you lack the capacity to adapt to new environments SWTOR has setted up. I, however, am a conformist who can be humble about any updates the devs made.

I agree, I don’t like EVERYTHING BW does, but I conform, to the things I like and dislike. This discipline system sounds pretty nice to me, and it messed with hybrids, so hey, if it makes the Devs lives easier, that’s a +

That’s what I mean. The Conquests favors strong guilds, GSF unbalance and lack of initiative, GSH lacks interactive decorations but still has some (which are utilities), prestige has no real meaning, and no new pvp maps. And yet I’m ok with their flaws because they are giving us story content on their following expansion. You can still hybridize, but only in the utilities section of the system.

your so humble? then why are you trolling my post like a 13 yr. old? and how long have you been playing this game? do you have all you 180 gear for two spec’s? and all you pvp gear for two spec that’s going to be useless? I have more then a right to be a bit skeptical after the last major make over in a game (SWG) all the work I had done was worthless. and you might be living with ur mommy and daddy and be able to play all day and take no time at all to recoup. but I work 40-50 hours a week and it’s taken me a long time to get my toon’s where they are.

First, I am no such troll, second, you’re the one trolling me about getting “schooled” by you, third, you still make false assumptions about my life and how I play, fourth, I have 18 years of age,fifth, I don’t live with my parents, and finally, I DON’T CARE ABOUT SWG. You yet don’t get the point where I told you once again that you have zero understanding on how an MMORPG works in the game industry, all you do is just whine about some little insignificant change, that in my terms of knowledge, does NOT affect me. Calling me a troll just because I told you my full honesty about your opinion makes me think you are just a waste of energy to argue with you since you commit a big amount fallacies of your point of theme.

i’m sorry…. I didn’t realize, you where an 18 yr. old I know your a big boy now, and you got it all figured out. I see there’s no point to this conversation. it seems to be a bit over your head. One day you mite get it. see that’s trolling talking shit for no reason. Kind of like you did to start all this……

“make a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.” That is what trolling is. My comments are never deliberate, so your argument there is futile. They consist of honesty and based on what you assume.

How exactly will you not be able to switch back and forth between different roles? If anything, this is the ONE thing that will be a lot easier now. You will be able to press a button and choose a new discipline. Done. And then 7 utilities. Not 45 skill points to remove and add every single time you want to respec, and ONLY if you have a field respec droid.

I just got done reading what the SWTOR team had to say. I guess I misunderstood what was being said here. By the looks of it, it’s going to be a pit better and I will still have the ability to jump from tank to dps 😀 and I will also be able to make a way better hybrid. ”

Say Goodbye to the Skill Trees

After much discussion, the Skill Trees that have been with us since the launch of the game have been removed. While we hope to maintain the feeling of progression with each level, players will no longer get a single point every level to invest in an array of skill boxes that we felt resulted in the burying of class identity, uneven power gains, and crazy-town rotations, depending on where you were in the tree. Instead, we created three Disciplines per Advanced Class, named and themed after the original Skill Trees (for example the three Disciplines for Commando are Combat Medic, Gunnery, and Assault Specialist, all very familiar names, themes, and play-styles from the skill tree era). For each of these disciplines, we took a look at all of the skills from their tree ancestor and imported everything that defined the identity and rotation of that tree and laid them out in a level-based progression, along with quite a bit of combining, cutting, creating new, and balancing along the way. No longer are you forced to purchase skills that are, in essence, necessary for your character to function; you simply get them automatically as you level up and progress down what we call the Discipline Path. Much like the old Skill Trees, each path is made up of active abilities, passive abilities, and a new type of progression concept called a utility selection, which we’ll explain later in the blog.

A Little Discipline is Good for You

From a player’s perspective, interacting with the Discipline system couldn’t be easier. Our goal was to design an elegant system that brings forward class identity without sacrificing the challenge of mastering your role in the process. We have combined the interface and process of taking an Advanced Class and discipline all into a series of linked panels that you access in much the same way you previously accessed the skill tree. Once you are level 10, you can simply open up that interface and are presented with the options for each Advanced Class available to you. After selecting an Advanced Class, the next panel of the interface describes each of the three disciplines available and allows you to select one. You can preview each of them to see what they are all about, and once you see one you like, you simply select and commit it! The chosen discipline path is automatically set to your current level, so if you want to abandon and switch disciplines (similar to resetting skill points on the trees), you can take on the challenge of a new role with ease. To make sure newer characters could immediately feel the identity of their chosen discipline at level 10, we’ve made sure that the very first things you get tend to generate a big impact to the type of character you want to be: healers get a nice heal, tanks get good defense/threat, and DPSers get a nice attack ability for their rotation. Tanks no longer have to grind 30 levels before they really start getting “Tanky” abilities; they can start being tanks right away.

What are Utility Selections

One of the most important goals for Disciplines was to make sure that the player had real choices that actually mattered as they advanced throughout the game. So after we finished pulling out all of the skills that we thought were really important for a Discipline’s play style and rotation, we took the remaining skills from each of the three Advanced Classes, cut some of the extraneous ones, created some exciting new options, polished old favorites, and put them into a selection pool available to all members of that Advanced Class. The end result is greater versatility. As an Engineering Sniper, do you want to gain AE damage reduction when you entrench? Well now you can, it is no longer for Marksmanship only. Each Advanced Class’s utility selections are divided up into three tiers, with each tier requiring a certain number of utility selections before unlocking. We also wanted to make Utility selections quick and easy to change around, so as long as you aren’t in the middle of combat you can bring up your new discipline window, reset your utilities, and quickly choose new ones.

Why the Change

While Skill Trees appear on the surface to provide flexibility and choice, in practicality they give very little of either. Players of a skill tree all tend to take the same skills in roughly the same order, with only minor variations on which utility choices they pick up by the end of their leveling system. With Disciplines, we can focus on creating strong and fun play styles from level 10 on, without having to worry about how people are spending 50 skill points and whether some people are making bad decisions or if others are finding crazy untested combinations that vastly exceed what we want to happen. Attach to that the idea of expanding the amount of and type of utility each player has access to and you get a system that creates better and more balanced characters with a stronger identity while allowing players actual choice. We also continued to run into a significant problem expanding the Skill Trees for level cap increases: development time. Each of the Skill Trees were balanced based on an assumption of points and how players must spend their points to get what they need to perform in combat. When we add more points (as well as more skills themselves) to the trees during a level cap increase, all of that balance is thrown off kilter and must be reset for every Advanced Class. This results in a massive amount of time spent every level cap increase simply redoing and rebalancing the Skill Trees over and over, preventing us from spending time actually doing cool new things. So to sum up, we’ve created Disciplines for stronger and earlier role specialization, more utility, more flexibility, better balance, and more development time for class improvements – letting our designers do more for you!”

I’ve never been very good with builds, but what does anyone think of these Utilities for a Lighting Sorcerer:
Skillful: chain shock, sap strength & opposing force.
Masterful: lightning barrier (and sith defiance from skillful if I can’t find anything else in masterful).
Heroic: two from force haste, corrupted barrier and haunted dreams (not sure which two though).

Force Mobility: Thundering Blast, Innervate, and Force Leech may be activated while moving.

O.O”””” so we are able to cast while moving? Hope we can’t during the use of force speed 😀

Hope they actually do balance the classes/advanced classes. Assassin/Shadow really needs more love at least in PvE…

Some of the choices are rather limiting. If they are going to make things with talents be like in WoW it would have been better to do it all the way. The utility selections should offer new skills to unlock, not just improve old ones or make you spend one of your 7 valuable points in …3% dmg reduction. Some of these are just horribly useless.

The 3% damage reduction is in the “Skillful” tier. Most of the skills in this tier are kind of “meh” buffs. You are forced to choose three of them before getting to the good buffs in the other 2 tiers. It similar to now, where you have to choose weak skills in the bottom of the tree before choosing the good ones at the top.

As Angry Joe put it: “WHAT HAVE YOU DOOOOONNNNEEE!!!!! You B******s, YOU KILLED IT!! NO…..NO……NO”

I HATE that they’ve killed Hybrids. WHY?? It’s so needless. I had a beautiful one for my sniper (23/0/23) called Lethal Mark. I had the best parts of lethality: cull, corrosive grenade, Dot buffs and a few other perks also and the best parts of Marksman: instant snipe in cover, buffed ambush damage, follow through, and great energy saving utility. To bad after 3.0 I won’t be able to do that again. What happened to uniqueness?? Having set disciplines with utilities that do very little to offer you real choice (since they are just the same passive abilities anyway) does NOTHING but create the illusion of choice just like before. So what’s the point ??. Most everyone will be in the same cookie cutter disciplines with little real variation. I was HOPING we would at leased be able to move certain abilities into a different discipline like cull to marksman or explosive engineering to lethality as a “utility”. Question: if I don’t purchase the update expansion will I get to keep the skill trees?? Here’s Hoping. At least bring out a Dual Spec sometime in the future

Apparently YOU don’t but that’s you. Me on the other hand love them. It’s too bad they are getting killed. It’s been real fun mixing specs and seeing what works optimizing my characters in pvp. My other fav for sniper was my engineering/lethality mix

During the livestream, they said that the reason for the change is to get rid of hybrids because they perform better than they intend and they don’t have the time or resources to extensively test every possible hybrid combination and they can’t properly balance against every hybrid combination when there are level increases or re-working of skills.

If you want to keep the skill tree you’d have to not download patch 3.0. So, I guess you won’t be playing SWTOR anymore.

There’s a game like this. It’s called Divekick. Pretty good, everyone gets exactly the same abilities. You’d like it.

Yeah its kinda bad, but with the current skilltrees they waste way too much time on balancing it afterwards when giving a new level cap. Also you really couldnt play your spec properly until somewhat 30+. Now with the new system you will have almost everything of the current live madness spec with 28 already, instead of having to wait until at least 48 before maxing a tree. Im actually looking forward to how this works out, especially for pvp

What kind of bothers me is, that they switched some talent in the trees.
e.g. Focal Lightning is now in the Lightning tree and Lightning Barrage is in the Madness tree.
It looks like Force Lightning no longer has a place in lightning rotations. This takes a lot of fun out of the spec.

Next step let the Nerfing begin!! Ahh SWTOR, how you must enjoy screwing us in the unmentionables lol smh

well… sorcs are just way too OP right now… i wouldn’t say nerf is needed but let other classes to catch up by buffing them up.

this is really weird… if devs were promoting individualism as they have said on the announcement… why is there a single path leading from one to another? is the utility slot is where we get to choose or make our own choices on which skill to have? I am trying to understand this but i guess i’ll just have to wait till it’s out of the box. but yeah, if this is how they decided to set it up, i don’t see how hybrids are ever possible… i was finally hoping for a hybrid jugg…

Yeah, there’s nothing about this that creates more individuality. During the livestream, they came right out and said that the reason for the change is to get rid of hybrids. Hybrids perform better than they intend and they don’t have the time or resources to extensively test every possible hybrid combination and they can’t properly balance against every hybrid combination when there are level increases or re-working of skills. That dev blog tried to spin it as giving players more choices and options but they admitted in the livestream that this is all about squashing hybrids.

The problem is that the more levels and consequently the more total talent points you get the more variation that can happen between combinations of trees. This means a *lot* more time balancing classes that becomes harder as they add more levels.

I personally like this change, you choose one of three paths and then they are designing the utility abilities to be mixed and matched according to those branches. I’d actually guess you get a lot more genuine choices this way vs hybrids anyways.

I was a huge fan of how Rift did things, but I always thought that the talent tree system done by most MMO is pretty horrendous. You typically end up with only 5 or so truly different builds that are effective at all and people will get pressured into the most efficient ones. Either you go all out and let players go crazy, like Rift, and realize there will be balance issues but the sheer volume of choices is a balance for that (a whole lot more than 5 viable builds per class in Rift) or you go something like this. This reminds me a lot of D&D actually… a lot of the classes let you get a base progression (with maybe a few choices here and there to tune it out), then you get something like feats, skills, or what-not to help mix and match and make your character unique.

Again I loved Rift and it’s options, but unless you go all the way a half assed talent tree is pointless so I’d much rather they do this and just build a system designed around having choices in certain areas.

well change is good i quess… more time spend in swtor to relearn how to play pve and pvp. I understand devs trying to get rid of hybrids but wouldnt it been easier just closing tier 3 on other trees once u entered 1? with every change in mmo there will always be pro’s and cons and 1 class being superior over others swtor wasnt an exception to that so i doubt this new system will solve that. That being said i am looking forward to the new patch as i have been to most new patches

The idea is that everyone took the same talents so there was no ‘choice’. Now you get the talents that everyone would take and can make a choice for the others. They can put their resources into making those particular skills more ‘interesting’.

So… there will be 60 levels in the game, 50 if you exclude the base class. And only 24 levels on which something actually happens: you get a skill or a utility slot.

What about the other 26 levels? What’s the point of half of level-ups if all you get is an insignificant stat boost?

in the current system, you have the 0/2 0/3 system.. what we will get is slots maxed out, probably. so its the same in a ‘different’ way

we don’t know that. Sure, my sorc could break stun but then with the multi mega stun fest that’s going on I expect it’s only going to be a bit better but operatives/scoundrels will still be able to stun you just the same 😉

Well here’s hoping they fix the sniper class since it’s the weakest DPS class now since they’re SO CONCERNED about balancing the game. Snipers BETTER get a major buff in their discipline

They are one of the strongest dps classes what are you talking about?! If anything they need to fix scoundrel/operative for pve dps. Or shadow/assasin and tactics for powrtech/vanguard.

In the latest updates, snipers are objectively parsing worse than the other classes. Operatives have gotten a huge DPS buff and are killing it right now. Assassins and Powertechs are also doing very very well.

That said, snipers also do a very good job of getting their DPS numbers, because they have huge range and good mobility. Thus, in raids other than tank and spanks, they are still very viable.

Main a Sniper myself. So, a buff would be nice^^. That said, every class is viable. It’s about skill of the player not the class you have to chose

Love the changes but BUT!!!!!!! CC is already out of control and the utilities will make it even worse.

Forked Darkness (passive): Crushing Darkness has a 30% chance to tick twice and make its target vulnerable for 45s. Vulnerable targets take 5% more damage from Force attacks. In addition, when you activate Thundering Blast, there is a 30% chance the ability will produce a second blast that strikes the same target for 30% damage.

Is the extra thundering blast only when the target is vulnerable or just always?

Always. It works in the same way as the current Forked Darkness talent. They just changed the part with Crushing Darkness.

Resurgence is still there, but it’s now a baseline ability instead of Dark Infusion. You can see it in the live stream.

What still bothers me is the pushback reduction talent in the lightning tree.
Why did they change all pushback reduction talents from 75% to 100% a few months ago, just to go back to 75% now?

So the main tree of discipline will have to be followed by everybody ? And we will only have a choice in the differents utilities ?

Hum, let’s see how it works out then. I can’t see much variety in these choices since the abitities are common for all 3 disciplines but I am looking forward to seeing something different after 3 years.

When WoW did this, a lot of people complained about it. It actually turned out to be very good for the game and balance and allowed them to do more creative things with the utilities.

I think this is the right thing to do, for all the reasons mentioned above.

I think you will find that after it is said and done, you will actually have more fun with it.

My guess is that in the current game the disciplines are the ones that people generally pick anyway. I know hybrids are disappearing but my guess is that the vast majority of players doesn’t really play hybrids and certainly not in endgame. And on top of that most people make pretty much the same choices in their skill trees from what I’ve seen. So what’s the point in having lots of freedom to choose when you’ll choose the same things? There are exceptions of course but for the sake of pvp balancing and such that’s the price they are willing to pay in the new combat system.

I didn’t play consistently recently, but used to pvp a lot before at decent level. Utility list made my mouth water, because they are too good, man. I just wanna pick 1 or 2 more from each tier comparing to max 3/2/2. Mostly choice will depend on style of your play I believe, in which I’ll for sure change them from time to time. The point is, although currently people generally pick those utilities anyway, you are gonna have too much of a choice now to get all you want, and will have to restrain yourself a bit.

Enduring Bastion is the name of the ability that comes up once Force Barrier comes down, it is the 5s shield you get from the Charges built up while channeling Force Barrier.

They did not go over all of the passives in the livestream, they only went over the utility and and few passives,2 from lightning and 1 from madness. i donno where you got all these from. i would like to know.

Just have to say this new system looks like a big shit….I really liked the tree and freedom to put the point where I wanted to put.

What kind of freedom are you talking about? The only talent points you could spend differently are now called Utilities. The only downside is that hybrids will be impossible and and they already explained that balancing hybrids is a nuisance and would mean that the good stuff needs to be high up in the talent trees making the first 30 levels very annoying to play.

Not to mention that leveling a particular spec will be way more fun, as you’ll get the spec abilities earlier in the process

The current talent trees give the illusion of freedom, but there is really very little choice. With few exceptions, there are right choices and wrong choices for each tier. Sure, some people will pick the wrong choices because they don’t know better, and they are handicapped because of it. Is a choice between “1% increase” and “0.5% increase” really a choice? The new system in theory just automatically grants everyone the ‘right’ choices but still lets you pick the few actual choices; thus, the uninformed aren’t handicapped.

Devs hate hybrid builds because there are so many possibilities and they can’t test all of them in advance for balancing. Players love hybrid builds because occasionally someone will find one that outperforms everything else. The devs then nerf that hybrid build, in the process also nerfing the normal builds, eventually requiring a rework of the normal builds. Its a cyclical process that wastes incredible amounts of development time. A real problem is when they add levels. 5 More talent points allows you to go a tier higher, thus expanding the amount of hybrid builds that they try to avoid. To avoid this, they reorganize and add a new tier of fluff at the bottom of the tree. After a few expansions, the first 40 levels are nothing but fluff talents, which is boring for everyone but especially terrible for leveling characters.

I don’t think many people will actually care about the extinction of hybrids after the change is made; most people choose them simply because they provide the best dps. If the best dps is in a normal tree, they will pick that without thinking twice.

All I know is, if this stays like this I’m a be a lot more ridiculous than I already am. Good job Bioware for making me a future Demigod. (Palms hands together and whispers “Excellent…” in a sinister voice).

Say Goodbye to the Skill Trees

After much discussion, the Skill Trees that have been with us since the launch of the game have been removed. While we hope to maintain the feeling of progression with each level, players will no longer get a single point every level to invest in an array of skill boxes that we felt resulted in the burying of class identity, uneven power gains, and crazy-town rotations, depending on where you were in the tree. Instead, we created three Disciplines per Advanced Class, named and themed after the original Skill Trees (for example the three Disciplines for Commando are Combat Medic, Gunnery, and Assault Specialist, all very familiar names, themes, and play-styles from the skill tree era). For each of these disciplines, we took a look at all of the skills from their tree ancestor and imported everything that defined the identity and rotation of that tree and laid them out in a level-based progression, along with quite a bit of combining, cutting, creating new, and balancing along the way. No longer are you forced to purchase skills that are, in essence, necessary for your character to function; you simply get them automatically as you level up and progress down what we call the Discipline Path. Much like the old Skill Trees, each path is made up of active abilities, passive abilities, and a new type of progression concept called a utility selection, which we’ll explain later in the blog.

A Little Discipline is Good for You

From a player’s perspective, interacting with the Discipline system couldn’t be easier. Our goal was to design an elegant system that brings forward class identity without sacrificing the challenge of mastering your role in the process. We have combined the interface and process of taking an Advanced Class and discipline all into a series of linked panels that you access in much the same way you previously accessed the skill tree. Once you are level 10, you can simply open up that interface and are presented with the options for each Advanced Class available to you. After selecting an Advanced Class, the next panel of the interface describes each of the three disciplines available and allows you to select one. You can preview each of them to see what they are all about, and once you see one you like, you simply select and commit it! The chosen discipline path is automatically set to your current level, so if you want to abandon and switch disciplines (similar to resetting skill points on the trees), you can take on the challenge of a new role with ease. To make sure newer characters could immediately feel the identity of their chosen discipline at level 10, we’ve made sure that the very first things you get tend to generate a big impact to the type of character you want to be: healers get a nice heal, tanks get good defense/threat, and DPSers get a nice attack ability for their rotation. Tanks no longer have to grind 30 levels before they really start getting “Tanky” abilities; they can start being tanks right away.

What are Utility Selections

One of the most important goals for Disciplines was to make sure that the player had real choices that actually mattered as they advanced throughout the game. So after we finished pulling out all of the skills that we thought were really important for a Discipline’s play style and rotation, we took the remaining skills from each of the three Advanced Classes, cut some of the extraneous ones, created some exciting new options, polished old favorites, and put them into a selection pool available to all members of that Advanced Class. The end result is greater versatility. As an Engineering Sniper, do you want to gain AE damage reduction when you entrench? Well now you can, it is no longer for Marksmanship only. Each Advanced Class’s utility selections are divided up into three tiers, with each tier requiring a certain number of utility selections before unlocking. We also wanted to make Utility selections quick and easy to change around, so as long as you aren’t in the middle of combat you can bring up your new discipline window, reset your utilities, and quickly choose new ones.

Why the Change

While Skill Trees appear on the surface to provide flexibility and choice, in practicality they give very little of either. Players of a skill tree all tend to take the same skills in roughly the same order, with only minor variations on which utility choices they pick up by the end of their leveling system. With Disciplines, we can focus on creating strong and fun play styles from level 10 on, without having to worry about how people are spending 50 skill points and whether some people are making bad decisions or if others are finding crazy untested combinations that vastly exceed what we want to happen. Attach to that the idea of expanding the amount of and type of utility each player has access to and you get a system that creates better and more balanced characters with a stronger identity while allowing players actual choice. We also continued to run into a significant problem expanding the Skill Trees for level cap increases: development time. Each of the Skill Trees were balanced based on an assumption of points and how players must spend their points to get what they need to perform in combat. When we add more points (as well as more skills themselves) to the trees during a level cap increase, all of that balance is thrown off kilter and must be reset for every Advanced Class. This results in a massive amount of time spent every level cap increase simply redoing and rebalancing the Skill Trees over and over, preventing us from spending time actually doing cool new things. So to sum up, we’ve created Disciplines for stronger and earlier role specialization, more utility, more flexibility, better balance, and more development time for class improvements – letting our designers do more for you!

Hmmm Seems like healers (at least) will receive one less passive than they already have. I currently use: Force Suffusion (Skillful), Sith Defiance (Skillful), Empty Body (Skillful – although I do note the 2% increase, then Emersion (Masterful), Dark Resilience (Masterful), Lightning Barrier (Masterful), then Corrupted Speed (Heroic although redone a bit as Surging Speed) and Corrupted Barrier (Heroic).

That’s 8 abilities now reduce to 7 choices?
Also what happened to Resurgence?

I also find Reverse Corruption to be useless as I never/rarely consume health for force with out a charge of Force Surge

Ah no way, they gave the double speed force lightning proc to madness, wtf?
Lightning sorcs no longer gonna be using force lightning, but now maybe crushing darkness more? That is kinda effed up.

Madness was the higher DPS tree prior to 3.0 and will be in 3.0 too so it really doesn’t matter. Any serious Sorcs in the game would be foolish to go with the Lightning discipline.

Is disciplines going to be good or bad…we’ll see. But I’m curious of some other thing:
How they’ll handle new level caps (as this was their reason) with this system and what you think of the options:
– give you brand new ability/passive that will be most powerful as being the top ones?
– let you add more from the same pool of utilities? imo ending up with a build you don’t need/want/like
– or what?

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