SWTOR 3.0 Lightning Sorcerer DPS Guide by KTap

SWTOR 3.0 Lightning Sorcerer DPS guide by KTap of Harbinger.

Intro to Lightning Sorcerer

Lightning has been returned to its former glory and is once again a very viable option for any PvE content. The new mobility we have, along with all of the old/new utilities we bring to fights, puts Lightning in the best spot that it’s ever been, in my opinion. Very high burst, good sustained damage, lots of useful things for a group and great looking animations, what’s not to like?

You have a lot of utility to bring to any fight, please use it!

Ratings

  • Sustained DPS: 7 (8 on short and/or bursty fights)
  • AoE Damage: 10
  • Group Utility: 8 (9 with no Sorc healer)
  • Burst: 9
  • Rotation Difficulty: 5
  • RNG dependance: 7 (lots of procs)
  • Execute bonus: None

This guide will be updated if they tone down Force Storm. I’m hoping they won’t, but I doubt they want it to be viable for single target dps (there’s also a lot of pvp complaints about it). Will also be updated if I find any errors or I figure out something that I currently don’t know (very probable)!

Passives

  • Electric Induction – Reduce the force consumed by force abilities by 10%.
  • Force attunement – Attuned to the force, your maximum force is increased by 500.
  • Transmission – Increases the range of Force Lightning, Shock, Jolt, and Force Slow by 20 meters. Also increases the duration of Whirlwind to 60 seconds.
  • Lightning Storm (level 12) – Lightning Strike, Lightning Bolt, Thundering Blast and Force Storm grant Lightning Storm when Activated. Finished cooldown on chain Lightning, reduces the force cost by 50% and makes it an instant cast. Available every 10 seconds.
  • Storm Brewing (level 16) – Increases Force Storm crit chance by 15% and critical bonus damage by 30%.
  • Lightning Effusion (level 20) – Direct force attack crits grant Lightning Effusion, reducing the force cost of your next two non-channeled force attacks by 75%.
  • Subversion (level 24) – Reduces the pushback suffered when activating Chain Lighting. Lighting Strike, Crushing Darkness, Thundering Blast, and Lighting Bolt by 75%. Additionally, you have a 25% chance when taking direct damage to gain Subversion, which causes your next Lighting Strike or Lighting Bolt to activate instantly. This effect cannot occur more than once every 8s and lasts for up to 15s.
  • Forked Darkness (level 28) – Crushing Darkness has a 30% chance to tick twice and make its target vulnerable for 45s. Vulnerable targets take 5% more damage from Force attacks. In addition, when you activate Thundering Blast, there is a 30% chance the ability will produce a second blast that strikes the same target for 30% damage.
  • Lighting Swarm (level 32) – Increase the maximum range of your Force attacks by 5 meters. Additionally, Chain Lighting immobilizes all affected targets for 0.5s and slows all affected targets by 50% for 6s.
  • Convection (level 36) – Force Speed give 2 stacks of Convection which allows Lighting Strike and Lighting Bolt to be activated instantly.
  • Forked Lightning (level 40) – Lightning Strike, Chain Lightning, Lightning Flash and Lighting Bolt have a 30% chance to produce a second arc of lightning that strikes the same target for 30% damage. Additionally, Chain Lighting overwhelms its targets for 45 seconds. Overwhelmed target takes an additional 10% damage from area attacks.
  • Focal Lighting (level 44) – Damage dealt by Chain Lightning and Lightning Flash has a 100% chance and damage dealt by Lighting Strike and Lighting Bolt have a 50% chance to grant Focal Lighting, which increases alacrity by 1%. Stacks up to 5 times. Lasts 15s.
  • Chaos Nexus (level 48) – Forked Lightning is twice as likely to trigger while Polarity Shift is active. Additionally, increases the duration of Polarity Shift by 5s and reduce its cooldown by 15s.
  • Reverberating Force (level 52) – Increases critical damage dealt by Chain Lightning, Lightning Flash, Crushing Darkness and Thundering Blast by 30%.
  • Conduction (level 56) – Each Forked Lighting and Forked Darkness reduces the active cooldown of Polarity Shift by 1s. In addition, being interrupted grants Unshakeable for 4s. This can only occur once every 15s.
  • Charged Reaction (level 59) – Direct damage dealt by your Crushing Darkness and Chain Lightning abilities refreshes the duration of your Affliction on affected targets. In addition, Lightning Bolt increases your Force regeneration by 10% for 10s. Stacks up to 3 times.

Offensive Cooldowns

  • Polarity Shift (90 second cooldown) – Grants 20% alacrity and immunity to interrupts for 10 seconds. Use on cooldown assuming you can be attacking for that long (don’t use if there’s only 5 seconds left before some downtime or something).
  • Recklessness (90 second cooldown) – Grants 2 charges of Recklessness, which increases the Force critical chance of your direct attacks and heals by 60%. Each time a direct Force ability critically hits you lose 1 charge. Lasts 20 seconds.
  • Attack Adrenal (3 minute cooldown) – Increases Power by 750 and reduces all healing done by 20%. Lasts 15 seconds.
  • Unlimited Power (5 minute cooldown) – Increases Strength, Presence, Aim, Cunning, Endurance, and Willpower for you and your group members within 40 meters by 10%. Lasts 10 seconds.

Utilities

Skillful – Force Suffusion + Empty Body + Tempest Mastery

  • The AoE heal from Force Suffusion is great for getting a quick ~1-3k heal on everyone it hits (I normally use during downtime to help top everyone off or when the healing gets extremely intensive).
  • Empty Body is a no brainer for Operations in my opinion, 10% healing received is huge.
  • Tempest Mastery currently while Force Storm is so powerful.

Masterful – Suppression + Dark Resilience

  • Suppression is great for instances when you know that you’re going to be taking damage. 25% reduction for 6 seconds can save your life.
  • Dark Resilience is also great for taking damage, whether it’s unavoidable or you make a mistake. I can currently heal upwards of 17k using this Utility, and while they might not say it aloud, your healers appreciate having to heal the dps less during difficult fights!

Heroic – Corrupted Barrier or Force Speed + Force Mobility

  • Corrupted Barrier may not look very impressive on paper, but it’s a very powerful self heal whether used on Static Barrier or Force Barrier. With my health where it is (49.4k), the healing ticks are at 1100 per second, with 4400 healing ticks per second with 4 stacks of Enduring Bastion (the buff after Force Barrier ends). Even if you only use Force Barrier for 1 second to avoid damage, you’re still getting 5 ticks of healing (1 stack, so 1100 per second in my case) after you cancel it. I’d suggest using this if your healers are having a difficult time keeping everyone up during a fight.
  • When the healing isn’t as much of an issue (some fights are healing intensive, some are not), I’d go with Force Speed. If nothing else, you’ll have Force Speed and Force Slow available should you need them.
  • Force mobility is another no brainer to me. Thundering Blast is our highest priority, so getting as many of these per fight on target is crucial. With all the mechanics we must move out of or into during a fight, being able to cast TB on the move is necessary (it works during Force Speed as well).
  • Note – If you do not need Corrupted Barrier or Force Speed for any reason, I’d personally go back and put a point to something else from the Skillful or Masterful options.
  • These are definitely at least partially personal preference. The ones I listed are what I personally use for the hardest content (emphasis on damage reduction and healing). Most fights are about staying alive while executing your priority list, not going for the highest dps of all time.

Operation/Flashpoint Utility and Defensive Cooldowns

  • Unlimited power – Group/operation wide buff, increasing all main stats by 10% for 10 seconds. I recommend using it on your opener. This is assuming mechanics allow for it, your tanks can hold aggro, and you won’t need it for a burn phase within the next 5 minutes.
  • Force Speed – Use when necessary, whether it’s for the speed boost or for the instant Lightning Bolts.
  • Cloud Mind – Aggro drop, use when necessary to reduce threat or to reduce damage taken with the Suppression Utility.
  • Expunge – Use to get rid of cleansable debuffs that should be cleansed. Can be used on other people in your group if necessary.
  • Electrocute – 4 second hard stun, can be useful in Flashpoints and against some trash in operations.
  • Force Storm – Can slow or even stun enemies caught in it, useful in Flashpoints and some trash in operations.
  • Reanimation – Use to revive necessary dead players in your group. You should be reviving teammates, not the healers (coordinate with other revive capable dps so you’re not all trying to revive someone at the same time). Reanimate wisely – if there’s 2 or more people dead, revive the more necessary teammate (normally tank or healer).
  • Extrication – Friendly pull, use when necessary to save somebody from mechanics (they are stuck in a corner, dying in fire/acid, they need to be where you are, etc). Can also be used to lower someone’s threat amount (shouldn’t be necessary).
  • Unnatural Preservation – A free, powerful, instant self heal that is off the gcd (global cooldown). There is no reason not to use this is you’re below 80% life and there’s no current downtime in the fight.
  • Resurgence – An instant heal and an over time heal in one. This is on the gcd so use sparingly during combat, but if there’s downtime, feel free to use this in combination with Dark Heal to help the healers out.
  • Dark Heal – An expensive casted heal. Should only be used during downtime or when absolutely necessary (healers are dead or extremely hard pressed).
  • Overload – The knockback is very situational, and mostly useless for ops, but the heal while using Force Suffusion is definitely a nice utility for some fights. Whether it’s during combat or during downtime, this can really help healers who are hard pressed. It’s capable of being an instant 3k+ heal (with crit) on everybody it hits (up to 8 people including you), which is insane for a dps. It is on the gcd as well, so only use when necessary (or during downtime).
  • Unbreakable Will – Use when necessary to get rid of movement impairing effects or stuns that can be broken.
  • Consumption – Should never be necessary, but if you’re extremely low on force, it can be used to get a quick boost to your force pool.
  • Force Barrier – Use when necessary to avoid damage, whether it’s a giant hit at full health, or if you’re going to die if you get hit again. If you’re confident enough to do the fight without needing Force Barrier for protection, it can be used to avoid mechanics and increase dps (example: ignoring a knockback and getting back to dpsing sooner). Can also be used to heal yourself using the Corrupted Barrier utility.
  • Static Barrier – Use when necessary. For instance, if you get a giant grenade (or some similar unavoidable damage) on you and it’s about to blow up. Also, if there’s no sorc healer, or they’re otherwise occupied, I try and bubble people who are going to take similar unavoidable damage (only for big hitting things like grenades/bombs/etc, not something that’s going to not hit very hard). You can also bubble your tank(s) if they are dying and there’s no sorc healer in the group. Can also be used to heal yourself using the Corrupted Barrier utility.

We do not have issues with our force pool (under normal circumstances), so don’t be afraid to bubble everybody in your group if there’s sufficient downtime and your force pool permits. This is assuming that there is no sorc healer who uses more powerful Static Barriers.

These utilities can make or break a fight, and it’s up to you to decide what to use and when to use them as the fight dictates. They are all situational. Good luck!

Gearing

Accuracy (assuming you have 1% companion bonus. If you don’t, get it!) – Personally I think that anything above 109.5% Force accuracy is sufficient. I’m sure the theorycrafters will come tell me how wrong I am, but I personally do not like going over the accuracy cap, and so I do not. It’s up to you if you can live with a slight miss chance.

What I would personally recommend based on gear level:

  • 186 gear (Dread Master) – 7 Accuracy pieces (~109.57% Accuracy) (add one augment to go over cap)
  • 192 gear (Resurrected) – 6 Accuracy pieces + 1 Accuracy augment (~109.61% Accuracy) (add one more augment to go over cap)
  • 198 gear (Revanite) – 6 Accuracy pieces (~109.63% Accuracy) (add one augment to go over cap)

Crit – I’ve done a lot of crit testing over the years (with game play, not math), and for me, the results are normally about the same on average (unless using insane amounts of crit, then it’s lower). I try to just stick around 25% now and call it good, but there’s probably some ‘optimal crit’ according to theorycrafters that I don’t know. I’m currently at 239 crit rating (24.68% crit chance) and usually hover between 200-300. This could change in bis 198 gear, but I’m nowhere close to that yet!

Power – Everything that isn’t crit.

Surge – At least 3 pieces of gears worth (306-360 depending on gear level). Can go higher if you feel inclined through augments (you’ll start hitting some diminishing returns though).

Alacrity – At least 1 piece of gears worth (102-120 depending on gear level). Can go higher if you feel inclined through augments.

Augments – Based on recent numbers from theorycrafters, they say Power augments are #1, with main stat just behind them. You will have more crit (~1.67% for me with full Willpower) with mainstat, more bonus damage with power, so choose whichever you prefer. I’m currently using Willpower.

Augments are also a good way to make up any stats that you’re missing from gear, or want to otherwise increase. I was a bit low on surge with my current gear, so I dropped some Surge augments in to compensate.

Relics – Serendipitous Assault and Focused Retribution.

Set bonus – 6 piece Force-Master. It’s very possible that the old 4 piece + new 2 piece would be better, but I don’t have the gear currently to test properly.  It will probably get nerfed if people start using it.

Abilities and Rotation

Main damage abilities for rotation

lifedrain Affliction (AF) – A DoT required to get automatic crits on Thundering Blast. Refreshes with CL and CD, so ideally you only need to cast it once per fight, but there are some instances where it will need to be recast after some downtime or target switching.
shadowtechnique Thundering blast (TB) – Our staple attack, and our highest priority, Thundering Blast should be used on cooldown.
dark_embrace Crushing Darkness (CD) – Our second priority (with proc), CD is another must use part of our rotation. The guaranteed damage from it is second only to TB (or attacks using Recklessness).
swtor-lightning-flash Lightning Flash (LF) – A new ability with 3.0, and third on our priority list (assuming CL proc is not about to wear off). With the crit damage buff from Reverberating Force, it’s capable of hitting much harder than LB, which is why I use it before Chain Lightning. I want to use as many of these per fight as I can.
chainlightning Chain Lightning (CL) – Fourth on our priority list, third on priority assuming the proc is about to fall off (it never should be). Gains bonus from Reverberating Force, instant cast with proc, and hits up to 8 targets within 8m making it priority #1 for AoE.
lightningbolt Lightning Bolt (LB) – A new ability given to us to replace Lightning Strike as our main filler during rotation. Available as a cast or an instant cast using Force Speed (or 25% chance on taking damage).
lightningstrike Lightning Strike (LS) – Main filler used until level 57, then it gets replaced by Lightning Bolt.
forcestorm Force Storm (FS) – A channeled AoE that got massive buffs in 3.0, even becoming viable in single target rotations. I generally use on opener and with Recklessness depending on the situation.
shock Shock – An instant cast that can be used with the Chain Shock utility and it does more average damage than Lightning Bolt. Probably ideal for dummy parses or short, bursty fights. I prefer the healing utilities for hard content personally, but if surviving isn’t an issue, Shock is definitely viable to add into your rotation.

Ideal Opener

Precast CD > AF > Offensive Cooldowns > TB > LF > Recklessness > CL > Force Storm > TB > Priority list

swtor-lightning-sorc-3.0-opener

Note – You want to use Polarity shift before your Attack Adrenal (or any cooldown without a timed debuff on your bar). The 20% Alacrity will reduce the cooldown of your adrenal from 3 minutes to 2 minutes and 30 seconds without any additional Alacrity (The math doesn’t seem to add up, but it is indeed 30 seconds and not 36 seconds). It does not work with Unlimited power because you’re locked out for 5 minutes either way.

Ideally you’d also have a merc using their 10% Alacrity buff before the group uses their cooldowns as well for even more time shaved off of cooldowns.

Rotation through first 5 Thundering Blasts

Crushing Darkness > Affliction > Polarity Shift + Attack Adrenal + Unlimited Power > Thundering Blast > Lightning Flash > Recklessness > Chain Lightning > Force Storm > Thundering Blast > Chain Lightning > Lightning Flash > Lightning Bolt > Crushing Darkness > Lightning Bolt > Lightning Bolt > Thundering Blast > Chain Lightning > Lightning Flash > Lightning Bolt > Lightning Bolt > Lightning Bolt > Lightning Bolt > Thundering Blast > Crushing Darkness > Chain Lightning > Lightning Flash > Lightning Bolt > Lightning Bolt > Lightning Bolt > Thundering Blast > Chain Lightning.

swtor-lightning-sorc-3.0-rotation

There’s another promising rotation using Force Storm a lot more, up to ~90 hits on a 1 mill dummy, but I’m not going to go over that here as it’s not nearly as viable for mechanic-filled operations and is in all likelihood getting toned down anyways

Priority List

Assuming your CL proc isn’t about to run off, which it never should be.

  1. Thundering Blast (with Affliction)
  2. Crushing Darkness (with proc)
  3. Lightning Flash
  4. Chain Lightning (with proc)
  5. Lightning Bolt

Mobile Priority List

  1. Thundering Blast (with Affliction)
  2. Lightning Flash
  3. Chain Lightning (with proc)
  4. Lightning Bolt (with proc)
  5. Shock
  6. Force Slow
  7. Electrocute
  8. Overload

AoE Priority (3+ enemies)

  1. Chain Lightning (with proc)
  2. Force Storm
  3. Overload (mobile or low on force)

Recklessness Priority List (Single Target)

  1. Chain Lightning (with proc)
  2. Force Storm (if you can get 3+ ticks on target)
  3. Lightning Flash
  4. Lightning Bolt

Recklessness Priority List (2+ Targets)

  1. Force Storm
  2. Chain Lightning (using this first with 2+ targets will eat both stacks)
  3. Lightning Flash
  4. Lightning Bolt

Force Speed Use

  1. When you need the instant LB for mobile combat (and you’re not going to need Force Speed for the next 15 seconds).
  2. When a relic proc/raid buff/Polarity Shift/whatever is going to wear off before your next LB cast finishes (and you’re not going to need Force Speed for the next 15 seconds). This is highly situational and requires awareness + keybinds to pull off efficiently.
  3. Using Force Speed on cooldown under normal circumstances is not a dps increase. The time before next cast is the same as if you hard casted it.

Sample Parse & Video

I tried to get a parse with as close to average crits as possible to show the percentage of totals that you should expect (I’m at 24.68 crit chance atm). Obviously it will vary a bit with crit and all the rng procs throughout our rotation, but you get the idea!

clip_image002

The ability delay for me is horrible on my ship atm (has been mostly bad since 3.0), but the percentages should be close enough. Apm for dummy parses is highly dependant on how many times you use Force Speed. During an actual PvE fight apm varies wildly depending on a multitude of things, so don’t concern yourself with it too much.

I’ve hit well over 4.5k a few times (ability delay permitting) with this rotation and some decent/nice RNG (gear is a mix of 180/186/192 with a 198 offhand armoring), and I’ve also hit 4k with some terrible rng. Don’t be too worried if you’re doing everything correctly and the numbers aren’t there. This spec is still fairly RNG dependant.

Video

Disclaimer:  After 4 hours of attempts, this was the best video I could get.  The ability delay is still terrible for me on my ship so I may have mistimed one or two things due to that.

About the author

My name is KTap (Currently playing Veijel, formerly Stomach/Handcuff) and I’ve been playing a Lightning Sorc/Telekinetics Sage off and on since RotHC released. I’ve dabbled with other classes and specs, but this spec is by far my favorite in the game and I’m very glad that it’s once again an excellent choice for any group! I’m in the guild Zorz on the Harbinger server.

This guide is a culmination of not just mine, but other people’s ideas as well. I am not all knowing and had plenty of help from other people, whether it was their insights or they inspired me to do something out of the box (too lazy to find and list everyone, sorry).

If you’re looking for pvp advice, I’m probably not the right person to ask. I’m fairly competent at pvp, but there’s definitely more knowledgeable players out there and I’d suggest posting your pvp questions in the swtor pvp forums.

Please feel free to ask any questions, tell me how wrong I am (I wouldn’t be surprised), etc in the comments here or through private message on the swtor forums (I’m KTap there as well).

I hope you enjoy the guide and thanks for reading!

  • Sarigar

    Nice guide, I especially appreciate the gearing recommendations. Most guides point you at a target rating without saying “you need this many Acc/Crit/Surge enhancements to reach this number”. I know it varies a bit depending on gear, but offering real numbers is a big help to non-professional raiders.

    It’s too bad, and more than a little perplexing, that Lightning spec no longer utilizes Force Lightning in any meaningful way. I wish they’d thought about that a bit more before making the most iconic Lightning power obsolete in a spec where it should be king.

    • Cokebeard

      i see you point about force lighting, but it’s THE spammed filler with Lightning strike in Madness. So, while it no longer has a place in the Lightning tree, it’s a focal point in another spec.

    • KTap

      I agree 100%. Seems like the Lightning spec should be getting the iconic channeled lightning ability, but it is what it is!

  • Alex

    Math does add up about alacrity 😉 The correct formula is t/(1+alac) not 1*(1-alac)… 😉

    • KTap

      Yea this was pointed out to me in the TK guide, my mistake!

  • iceberg265

    I think you’ve just made my guild’s Sages very happy, they’ve really been struggling so far this expac. Hopefully this will help them out. Any chance of a mirror guide coming soon?

    • Yes in 1 hr or two

      • Mike

        Hi Dulfy, any news about Assassin guide update ?

        • The deception/infiltration one should be this week. Serenity/Hatred not too sure. Writer has been contacted

  • Илья Шиманов

    One thing is not mentioned at all in the guide: with Upheaval talent Project deals ~7 % more damage than Burst on average. If you are interested in the math I can provide you access to my spreadsheet with math on the whole spec

    • Guest

      Upd. Nvm now I see that it is there:)

  • Илья Шиманов

    A couple of things I wanted to add: you are completely right about no point in getting at least 110 % accuracy; gearingwise: at 186 you want approx 1 alacrity piece per 2 surge, as you get closer to 198 that ratio turns into almost 1 to 1; same with augments: at 186 you want 11 power, 2 surge, 1 alacrity while at 198 it becomes 9-10 power, 2-3 surge and 2 alacrity. I have the math to prove it

    • Prilloth

      Would really like to see that math. Also a comparison with no alacrity gear would be nice too.

      • Илья Шиманов

        Ok, first sorry for wrong info: i ran calculations on pre 3.0 spreadsheet.

        Correct results are even more interesting: 2 surge pieces on all current gear levels is a must, 7-6 is accuracy, rest is alacrity (every piece of accuracy not needed anymore goes into alacrity)

        Augments are: base is power, 1 surge for all gear levels, alacrity rises from 4 pieces at 186 to 7 (!!) at 198. Difference is marginal though but in NiM every drop will count

        Here is spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq3-8S0fAtqedHUyMzcyeVl0Z2tWb1FLTzlQSUxlVGc&usp=sharing

  • Tanjida

    Is the force storm in the rotation canceled after a few ticks or is it casted all the way through?

    • KTap

      When using with just Recklessness or the mega Force Storm rotation?

      For Recklessness, try to line it up so you can get all ticks on target as TB comes back up (and ideally have CD on cooldown for the entirety of the cast).

      • Tanjida

        Ah, I see. It is clearer to me now. Thanks!

  • Quorttase

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the tooltip here for CL is inaccurate, it hits 8 targets within 8 meters, if I remember.

    • KTap

      You are indeed correct! Should be fixed soon™

  • Belankar

    Very helpful guide thank you i have increase my dps a few hundred much needed points I stack all power augments is the only change I would recommend use your gear to get the 110 accuracy and the 25% crit is easy enough just a variation to what you said.
    Force lighting is not gone it is always a blast with trash and grinding just not so much with Op Bosses lol.

  • Darth Stewie

    This guide has a lot of, “I like x option for y reason but I’m sure others will say differently”, etc. I don’t like guides that can’t confidently backup what they are saying people should do. For example, the rationale behind crit being 25%. The author just says, “the results are normally about the same on average (unless using insane amounts of crit, then it’s lower). I try to just stick around 25% now and call it good, but there’s probably some ‘optimal crit’ according to theorycrafters that I don’t know.”

    So yeah, maybe I should see what some other people say I guess?

    • KTap

      I also say personal preference a lot. I’m no theorycrafter, more of a ‘let’s try this 100x and see what happens’ guy.

      I also said I’d edit the guide as necessary, so if I find something more optimal then I will adjust the guide!

      • Ste Davies

        Well in for doing this guide for players.

      • Darth Stewie

        That’s cool. I’m not saying the guide is bad in any way, I’m just pointing out that I would like some basis for WHY you feel something is best. I’ve never, ever seen in-depth guides just give a flat crit % as a recommended number. It’s always about the rating stat since the % can vary based on a number of outside things like Companion buffs, stims, etc.

        But like you said, this is a rough pass and will be updated as you see fit. I appreciate the work, just wanted to offer some criticism on what I thought might be lacking.

        • TheHarbingersKwerty

          An example of some reasoning for you:

          Getting crit chance to 25% means that under recklessness, Force Storm will always crit. 100%. Without it, there is a chance you can miss the crit though – (storm gets +15% crit chance, and Recklessness is +60% crit chance, so together it means you need 25% crit for the guaranteed auto-crit under Recklessness)

          • Ancaglon

            … but only for the first 2 hits, since there’s only 2 charges?

            • KTap

              No, the entire Force Storm channel only eats 1 stack, even on 8 targets.

        • KTap

          Yea, like I said, everything could change once bis 198, and I definitely will update the guide if I find something more optimal. What I put down is my recommendation, and may or may not align with other peoples recommendations.

          3.0 guides are all premature right now due to things that nobody has had time to test properly, only look at it on paper, which I’ve always been skeptical of personally.

          • Lindsay

            It’s been 5 months now… could we get some confirmed input now then?

      • abaddonsmummy

        I think that’s the beauty of your guide mate, it allows us down here to discuss the ins/outs of let’s face a completely new playing experience for us all.

        I’m finding it just mind blowing on all my 8 alts to re-learn the rotations and these guides and accompanying discussions are invaluable. I would be lost without them frankly.

        I think were all learning together, which is exciting and scary all at the same time.

        Good job.

        • KTap

          Thanks, I appreciate that and the logic.

    • Cokebeard

      i don’t like when people shit on someone who’s taking time out of their own day to put together a pretty decent guide as a base for a player to do well. some of the best parts of games like this is personal trial and error based off one’s play style. theorycrafters can be found on the forums. buck says KTap has cleared a shit tonne more content than you.

      So yeah, maybe i should see what some other people have to say on here i guess?

      • Darth Stewie

        I didn’t “take a shit” on anyone. It’s called giving criticism where I see it’s valid. If you don’t like it, then you can just skip what I have to say. People are entitled to criticize as they see fit… just like you did.

        • Cokebeard

          you can take some polish and buff up a piece of shit to a nice high gloss shine, but at the end of the day… it’s still shit.

    • zenight

      So what you’re saying is that if the guide said “this is the best”, “this is optimal” you’ll take it for cash an not question it?

      He was being honest about his findings, based on real testing not theory crafting on an Excel sheet…

      I think what you’re looking for is not a “guide” but someone to hold your hand while you play.

      • Darth Stewie

        Nope. When someone produces a ‘guide’, I expect it to be formulated with a good bit of research, not just ‘I try to stick around (insert misc stat) and call it good’ and then saying there’s probably better options elsewhere.

        • Ancaglon

          Well, I appreciate it. 4.3k is right on the money for any spec, let alone one that’s as bursty as this. If I can get my sorc and sage (shared gear set) to hit that consistently I’ll be happy.

        • Cokebeard

          you’re probably the type of player that needs a guide that spells out exactly what you need to do and unable to decipher for yourself how to optimize… that or you’re just lazy. either way, a waste of any more of my time.

    • Rex

      Game developers are trying to make games where they don’t math out to some “This is exactly how you have to play!” as much anymore. It became a huge problem in WoW for a long time, and now other studios are trying to avoid it.

      So things like personal preference, and how your mind works for playing might make slightly different play styles (higher Alacrity, lower Crit, or Power over Mainstat) viable.

      Theroycrafting has it’s place for sure, but it can almost never properly replicate real world conditions, which can allow players to do what feels good for them to be successful.

  • SirRobinII

    i use force speed in rotation to get the 2 insta LB casts 😛

    • Queenofsexy

      only useful while on the move, otherwise you are wasting a GCD

      • Rokanis

        I don’t believe Force Speed activates on the GCD, actually.

        • Queenofsexy

          After further testing you appear to be correct.

  • Queenofsexy

    Polarity Shift has a 2 minute cool down, 1 minute 45 seconds in lightning spec. It only goes to a 90 second cool down if/when you have either the new 4 piece set bonus or the old 2 piece set bonus. Yes the bonuses do stack, lowering the cool down to 1 minute 15 seconds if you use both sets.

    • Queenofsexy

      And then alacrity can lower the cool down further.

  • Stevensen Liu

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  • norman

    Shouldn’t Lighting Flash be used before Crushing Darkness? It takes 0.5s off the cast time.

    • abaddonsmummy

      I agree, thats what ive been doing in my rotation.
      Also are all those lighting bolt’s hard casts? I use of force speed for instant proc x 2.

      Not dissing the writer i’ve been waiting eagerly for this guide and its excellent.

      p.s also with the ‘Force Haste’ Heroic ability it makes for a quicker rotation with force speed – lightning bolt x 2 instant.

      • norman

        Yeah, my single target rotation so far has been AF>TB>LF>CD>FS>LB>LB.

        • abaddonsmummy

          Yes same here with a chain lightning off proc after TB ofc 🙂
          It seems to flow really well cause by the time thats all been triggered TB is off cooldown and u can start all over again (kinda).
          I don’t run hard numbers, I’ll leave that to the experts like KTAP, however it seems to flow and deliver some nice DPS.

          • norman

            If you’re fighting a single target why bother with chain lightning? Is there some benefit I’ve missed?
            When fighting a group I find it usually works best to send in Xalek (or Khem if you prefer) to draw aggro, spam force storm and proc chain lighting until there’s only the strongest mob left.

            • abaddonsmummy

              Even in single target, Chain Lightning when it procs does a shit ton of damage (5k+ i think) and its instant (procs with TB and LB I think), which fits into the rotation well.
              What i’m finding hard to come to terms with is fitting Force Storm into the rotation as KTAP states for single target. Does it do anything else other than proc Chain Lightning because TB and LB are more usefull imho.

              • norman

                In single target I think it works out as better damage per force not to use chain lightning, but I don’t have the numbers to hand, and I’ve not had to wait on thundering blast’s cooldown. Maybe I’ve just overstacked alacrity and don’t need it to fill the gap, or maybe I just go through the rotation a bit slower than everyone else.
                Also, I don’t get force storm being used in single target either. I only use force storm and chain lightning against groups.

              • KTap

                I would highly suggest trying my rotation and using Force Storm on Recklessness 🙂

                Also, you definitely want to use Chain Lightning on single target, it hits harder than LB or LF.

      • KTap

        Like I said in Force Speed Use, using Force Speed on cooldown isn’t a dps increase unless you have buffs that are about to fall off, or are mobile.

        You get a gcd afterwards, negating any lasting dps increase from the instant damage.

        • orin

          “You get a gcd afterwards, negating any lasting dps increase from the instant damage.”

          Except you do not.

          • KTap

            I meant after the instant LB, not Force Speed.

    • KTap

      Not on the opener. Your tanks should be capable of holding aggro and let people precast abilities for optimized dps (just let them pull right before the cast gets off).

      If they’re not, you might want to 2 second cast it even after they pull, or you’ll get aggro anyways 😛

  • after a bit of testing with my assassin and my sage (yeah I know… assassins are a bit different…) I kind of think that DoTs aren’t the way to go for PvE… do you agree on that? (the DPS values are just minor to deception/lightning…)

    • Alek

      I’m very interested to see some thorough comparisons between Deception/Hatred for Sins and Lightning/Madness for Sorcs. Madness used to be the king at 55, but is negligible now?

      • TBH, I think Madness lost the throne… Deception > Hatred, Lightning > Madness, that’s what my (non refined) values with preliminary, not perfect gear say (still not @ 100% acc)

        • Sharon

          I think you are wrong about the assassins actually, DoT Assassins/Shadow are now better than their direct dmg counterparts, at least in my experience – which is, to be sure, not officially tested and without the max gear.
          I can see and feel the difference both in PvE and PvP (RP remains the same :P)

          • yah, I agree with you :). got the knack of it the day after my comment…. deception is not that bad, but some buffs would be nice… especially because of the awesome utility of hatred ;(

    • KTap

      I agree that Madness/Balance is in a very bad place atm, I can’t speak for Assassins.

      Not sure anyone is even playing those specs right now, but I’d guess Lightning/TK is ~400-500 dps higher (for a dummy parse at least).

      • yeah… well… finally the better looking tree is better 🙂

        • Darth_Ziltoid

          Hatred tree is still the higher DPS spec for Assassins. Though Deception is not half bad now to run in OPS if your are trying to burst things down.

          • Hmm… might wanna give it a try… either it is my rotation (if you want, yours would be an awesome share :D) or my 192/186 mixed gear…
            but deceptions goes for 100-150 dps higher (with repeated parses)…

      • Cory

        I believe the 2 specs are closer than you think. I’m consistently parsing 4.2k on my Madness Sorc and I doubt my gear is as good as yours with your new 6 piece you mentioned having and other gear you mentioned that you have. Plus Madness Sorcs don’t have as much RNG (besides Crit) as Lightning Sorcs which I think makes them better in Ops. I also only have 1 ability in my rotation that cannot be cast while moving which give Madness Sorcs the edge with the mobility laden mechanics of Ravagers and ToS.

        That said, I’m not trying to knock your guide. It’s very informative and helpful and I applaud your work.

        • KTap

          I’ll be doing some Madness parsing at some point, but I’ve hit over 5k with Lightning now and I know Madness won’t be very close.

          Lightning Sorcs are very mobile now, I haven’t had problems in the new ops and have cleared everything besides HM Revan.

          Also, I’m using the old 4 piece / new 2 piece currently (5% Alacrity is good!).

          • Cory

            It’s nice to know that they’re more mobile now. In my past experience with Lightning Sorcs I didn’t feel like they were very mobile. Change is good. I absolutely agree about the Alacrity. I’m still waiting for Bioware to maybe fix that and reincorporate that bonus into the new 6 piece.

  • Pan

    Hello, nice seeing you return back in the game KTap! Your performance (top parser in spec for a significant period) & tips in the forums/sites helped me understand and improve my playing with Sorc/Sage.

    Btw, excellent guide and thank you & others for the effort to bring it on. Two questions: a) do you use force storm only with one charge of recklessness during single target boss fights or you apply it more frequently? b) If yes, in case you have polarity window, but not Recklessness ready would you still go for FS or spam LB?

    • KTap

      a. Yep, only with Recklessness unless there’s AoE happening. It’s probable that Force Storm is a slight dps increase at other points during a fight, but I do so much running around for mechanics/bubbles/aoe heals/revives/etc that I just stick with LB.

      b. Depends on the fight and where it is in the fight I suppose. It would probably be a slight dps increase, but I haven’t really incorporated it into my ops play as of yet.

  • Darth_Ziltoid

    RIP Force Lightning, I will miss you.

    Don’t care for slinging Force Storm in single target, but it was an interesting suggestion. Kinda screws up the “flow” of the spec with the channel time. It does do good damage though.

    Dulfy, I wouldn’t mind taking a run at Mercenary Bodyguard guide. I am well versed (relatively) on Arsenal and I.O. as well, but I am quite good at Bodyguard. Been playing since beta with no breaks Zendie of Sith Praxium, Begeren Colony (formerly Vrook Lamar). Though since you appear to main as a Commando, I’m sure you could put a good one together too. But if you don’t have anybody, I am willing and able. I also can do Sith Assassin Darkness, Deception, and Hatred.

  • Akumakazama

    I have 110 Accuracy, have about the same gear. Doing rotation as stated. Still not seeing these better numbers over a madness rotation I have yet to fix. I know the (madness) rotation will change but unsure how. Never saw them even back before 3.0.

    • KTap

      Are you saying that you’re parsing the same in Madness as Lightning?

      Sorry, I don’t really understand what you’re getting at 😛

      • Akumakazama

        Sorry. I thought it was already established how Lightning is the better spec due to dps numbers you can no longer achieve with madness. My point was in comparison to a Madness spec in which no one has an updated “rotation” since 2.7. I was confused myself in how people can already say Lightning is back on top. (Keep in mind when i followed one of the new Smuggler guide. I see a 1k plus increase to what i was doing before 3.0 was launched)

        A 200-500 increase in parse numbers to me isn’t enough to clearly state that one spec was better. In the gear above I will do about 2.5k with madness vs Lightning in which i can make no mistakes or move and get 2.5-2.6. That’s all i was saying in frustration.

        • TheHarbingersKwerty

          Yeah it wasn’t established Lightning was the better DPS spec cause it gained 200-500dps (well its more like 500-700 but whatever), but also because Madness lost 200-500 dps at the same time. Otherwise, you’d probably be right.

          • Cory

            To say lightning is “better” isn’t really a fair statement. I’m parsing 4.2k on my Madness Sorc with mixed 186/192/198 gear (no new set bonus). While I agree it is lower than the Parsec screenshot above from KTap, I’m fairly certain his gear is better than mine. Additionally, Madness Sorcs don’t have to deal with as much RNG and are the more mobile of the 2 specs which makes them better in the new ops, Ravagers and ToS, due to their mobility laden mechanics.

            I just don’t want to see people that play Madness Sorcs come here and be discouraged when they see inaccurate claims of 500-700 DPS difference between specs.

            • TheHarbingersKwerty

              Lets look at these examples:

              First, the parse you have there combared to Ktap’s. Ktap is currently parsing >5k dps on average in his 198s, and he’s still missing a few pieces.
              Most people putting guides up here aren’t using their record parse, as record parses typically have good crit luck, and as such would only update the parse in their guide if they need to (due to changes in how the spec functions due to buffs/nerfs).
              That 4.2 you’re getting? If you knew how to play lightning properly, you’d be averaging at least 4.7k dps.

              Next up, RNG. Fine, thats a semi-decent point. Until your remember how big the lead is for Lightning, to the extent that it could have no double procs and still be leading the DPS race against madness.

              Finally, mobility. I’m laughing when you say madness is more mobile now. Protip – its not. If a fight needs mobility, you simply spec into Force Speed, and now you have 2 guaranteed Lightning Bolts instant every 15 seconds, to go with your instants of Lightning Flash + Chain Lightning. You also get Force Mobility making Thundering Blast usable while moving, and Shock is actually quite powerful when you pick up the Chain Shock utility, and to top it off if you get hit by something you pretty consistently get an instant Lightning Bolt proc. I’ve done tests, I’ve done the maths, and I can guarantee that Lightning is the more mobile spec now hands down.

              • Cory

                You make some fair points and I will concede, after thinking about it, that maybe Madness Sorcs aren’t MORE mobile of the 2 specs but I will disagree that Lightning is. If anything, they’re both equal in mobility.

                The point of my previous post was not to trash on Lightning spec. Lightning spec is good. I just want people to realize that Madness isn’t as bad as some people would like to say it is. I’ve played with both specs a fair amount and I personally feel like the rotation in Madness is easier and has a bit more forgiveness for mistakes than the Lightning rotation does. Just one mans opinion.

              • KTap

                To be fair, I’m certainly not averaging 5k! Maybe 4850 or so 😛

    • Darth_Ziltoid

      He is saying his numbers are not better than his “old” Madness rotation on the Parse. This is easy to answer.
      1. New gear totals, since you’re not running BiS gear, you may not be parsing as high as you will be with better gear.
      2. ALL damage classes technically got a nerf in their totals, so even in BiS, we will not be doing that much better damage. Best point of this, is that if your in augmented 180/186 gear and running these specs, you should be doing LESS damage than you were before the expansion.
      3. Lightning and Madness are pretty different in their rotations, and it all takes practice. I am sure with a little more time spent running the rotation, the tighter it will be, the better you will parse.

      Good luck!

  • Lithari

    I personally find the lightning to be meh, i just find Madness much more better, but then i am always into dot based specs and i am not all that fussed over big numbers, i mean if you can’t keep getting them reliably, i just don’t like it, i prefer sustained, which the dot spec seems to be, the fact you can use force lightning endlessly makes it even more cooler and fun, but as i said, i play whats fun and right for me, i never go by what others say, i just use this site for a basic rotation and work from that.

    • Akumakazama

      I am just trying to see how “Fun” the other specs are etc. I am not usually the one who assumes there is a magical spec that gives me high dps with no practice. Just wanted to see what the fuss was about. For me i don’t mind “a boring” or standard rotation. That’s one less thing i have to worry about when i am not standing in stuff or adjusting to boss mechanics.

      • Lithari

        That is a good thing to do, instead of just going for the large numbers and then ditching it when it doesn’t do them.

  • JelloPop

    You NEVER go under 110% accuracy as a DPS. That extra 52 power from an augment adds almost no DPS, and if you miss a single shot then you could lose as much as a 5000 damage hit.

    This is not a good guide because as the poster says, he has no experience with the maths or theorycrafting in the game and is basically saying “well the maths don’t support this but this is what I do”. If any DPS came to a HM that I was leading with below 110% I’d kick them out of the group. This is the most basic of all basic things to know in SWTOR.

  • Talor

    I still don’t get the Force Speed stuff.
    If i use Force Speed and then the instant LB i get a gcd
    if i use hard casted LB i get the gcd anyway.
    so shouldn’t the second version take longer?

    • KTap

      You don’t get a gcd if you hard cast it, you’re casting during the gcd time (gcd time for instant one).

      Either way, you’re waiting the same amount of time before next cast, the instant just hits sooner than the casted one.

      • Suzuno

        I’m pretty sure this is specifically wrong. The base gcd is 1 sec, not 1.5. Instant LBs should always be a dps increase.

        • KTap

          It is not, test for yourself if you don’t believe me 😛

          Also, 1.5 seconds is assuming 0 alacrity, but the end result will be the same either way.

          • Suzuno

            I knew i was right, but I did test it just to be sure. The base GCD (thus w/o alacrity) is 1 second, not 1.5. Alacrity will not matter, as it decreases the GCD now as well as cast and channel times. You can test this visually by popping Polarity Shift and watch how fast you can fire off instant abilities in quick succession. So with the base case, 2 LBs in 2 sec after Force speed is vastly superior than 1 hard cast in 1.5 sec.

            • KTap

              I’ve tested it multiple times now (just in case), and it’s definitely 1.5 seconds. I suggest you retest it using a more accurate method.

              It’s not a dps increase under normal circumstances.

              If anything, Force Speed on cooldown lowers your dps by some small margin (can’t queue your next damaging ability ability).

  • CupCake

    I don’t agree with this: “I’ve hit well over 4.5k a few times (ability delay permitting) with this rotation and some decent/nice RNG (gear is a mix of 180/186/192 with a 198 offhand armoring), and I’ve also hit 4k with some terrible rng. Don’t be too worried if you’re doing everything correctly and the numbers aren’t there. This spec is still fairly RNG dependant.”
    You are using all willpower augs, thus allowing more discrepancy and range in your parses (ie 3.5-4.5k parse), with that much of an increase in willpower and crit brings that RNG to this spec where RNG is not really an issue. If you switch to all power augments you will not be saying this, yes you will not hit a “god parse” of 4.5k with all power augs but you will be at a constant 4.1-4.2k dps at full 186s with a clunky rotation.

    • CupCake

      Or am I completely wrong? Haha

    • KTap

      How can you say RNG isn’t an issue with this spec? Just about everything we do has a flat 30% chance to do extra damage.

      I’m averaging 4.4-4.6 now, and haven’t gone below 4.3. Willpower augments are not what causes the RNG problems (even though they add some).

      • CupCake

        I should have stated that better, I do not feel this spec is as RNG dependent as you made it out. ON ANOTHER NOTE the discrepancy on your parses may be because of your augs, because mainstat augs lead to more variance. Can you put on full power and test out for me plz?

        • KTap

          I’ll be doing a lot more testing (and probably a video) once I’m geared properly and the ability delay on ship is fixed. Also, it would cost almost 3 million credits currently to swap out augs 😛

          • Jerac

            3 million? Its only like 12k to remove an aug. it would be about 190k to swap them out. Unless of course you are speaking to having to purchase full sets of augs from GTN.

            • KTap

              I was, sorry 😛

              Overkill augments are still 180k+ on Harbinger (as of yesterday).

              • Jerac

                Wow. They have dropped to about 100k on Shadowlands. And even at that price I’ve had 2 for sale for 2 days and no bites.

              • KTap

                hmm they’re down to 105k today lol, so I’ll probably do some testing with them soonish.

                Trying to make a video… the ability delay is killing me. ~25 fails so far (rip adrenals).

              • nadinä

                i hate the ability delay so much :((( and there is no end in sight

  • Dhum

    full yavin gear with 5 willpower aug and ruusan relic without adrenals how much should parse?
    3.2k
    ?

    • KTap

      Not sure exactly, but I’d guess closer to 4k than 3k.

    • Xzelsius

      something around 3.6-3.8k if you it well and have 110% accuracy!

  • SomeRandomSorcerer

    Nice guide. Quick wondering. Is crit CL > crit 3+ ticks FS? Reason asking is that if it is not then wouldn’t a better, but most strange, opener be:

    pre-cast CD – AFF – Off CDs – TB – Recklessness – FS – FS (clipped but with all the alacrity you should be able to get 3+ ticks) – TB?

    till FS gets nerfed?

    • KTap

      Interesting, I’ll certainly try this out later when the ability delay settles down a bit!

      The Alacrity shouldn’t matter in this case, as it lowers the cooldown of TB as well as decreases channel time for Force Storm (I suppose if you proc’d the old 4 piece after TB went off/before hitting Force Storm it would be slightly different).

      I think you could get 3 ticks, but you might be delaying TB slightly waiting for the 3rd, which isn’t the end of the world if it’s only .something seconds.

      I’ll get back to you after some tests!

      • michael furious

        “…try this out later when the ability delay settles down…”

        That … might be a while.

    • KTap

      I lied, couldn’t resist doing some testing now 😀

      Using new 6 piece and took relics off to prevent some of the RNG with procs. No Adrenals/Unlimited Power. No armor debuff.

      ——————————————

      Normal opener through first 3 TB

      1. 96,516 (0/3 LB crit, 1/2 CL crit, 0/2 LF crit, 0/2 CD crit)

      2. 105,125 (0/3 LB crit, 1/2 CL crit, 0/2 LF crit, 0/2 CD crit)

      3. 116,324 (0/3 LB crit, 1/2 CL crit, 2/2 LF crit, 0/2 CD crit)

      4. 113,294 (1/3 LB crit, 2/2 CL crit, 1/2 LF crit, 1/2 CD crit)

      5. 91,656 (0/3 LB crit, 1/2 CL crit, 1/2 LF crit, 0/2 CD crit)

      6. 107,224 (1/3 LB crit, 1/2 CL crit, 1/2 LF crit, 1/2 CD crit)

      7. 108,154 (2/3 LB crit, 1/2 CL crit, 1/2 LF crit, 1/2 CD crit)

      8. 106,860 (1/3 LB crit, 1/2 CL crit, 1/2 LF crit, 1/2 CD crit)

      9. 109,365 (1/3 LB crit, 1/2 CL crit, 1/2 LF crit, 1/2 CD crit)

      10. 102,718 (1/3 LB crit, 2/2 CL crit, 0/2 LF crit, 0/2 CD crit)

      Average = 105,724 (.7/3 LB crit, 1.2/2 CL crit, .8/2 LF crit, .5/2 CD crit)

      ————————————–

      Double Force Storm (3 ticks on 2nd) opener through first 3 TB

      1. 101,169 (2/3 LB crit, 1/1 CL crit, 1/1 LF crit, 0/2 CD crit)

      2. 96,793 (0/3 LB crit, 0/1 CL crit, 0/1 LF crit, 0/2 CD crit)

      3. 97,091 (0/3 LB crit, 0/1 CL crit, 0/1 LF crit, 1/2 CD crit)

      4. 101,911 (0/3 LB crit, 0/1 CL crit, 1/1 LF crit, 0/2 CD crit)

      5. 99,393 (0/3 LB crit, 0/1 CL crit, 0/1 LF crit, 1/2 CD crit)

      6. 91,554 (0/3 LB crit, 0/1 CL crit, 0/1 LF crit, 1/2 CD crit)

      7. 97,237 (1/3 LB crit, 1/1 CL crit, 0/1 LF crit, 0/2 CD crit)

      8. 101,556 (0/3 LB crit, 1/1 CL crit, 0/1 LF crit, 1/2 CD crit)

      9. 96,236 (1/3 LB crit, 0/1 CL crit, 0/1 LF crit, 0/2 CD crit)

      10. 92,818 (0/3 LB crit, 0/1 CL crit, 0/1 LF crit, 0/2 CD crit)

      Average = 97,576 (.4/3 LB crit, .3/1 CL crit, .2/1 LF crit, .4/2 CD crit)

      ——————————————

      ~8k damage less with double Force Storm (crits were lower though, and I didn’t bother tracking 30% procs)).

      As you can see, there’s still a lot of RNG involved with crits and procs, and I only did 10 tests each, so these numbers are premature, but it doesn’t look to be an increase at this time imo.

      • RNGSorc

        Thanks for the test. Ten tests should be fine for this (not aiming to publish to a journal) as even if you remove outliers the results will still be showing the same (if not a bigger difference).

        I am thinking that this is caused because CL gives overwhelms, so basically CL-overwhelmed FS > FS-FS (clipped); which probably means given the long duration of overwhelm that the 2nd potency time around it might be better to do double FS. But anyway, I don’t see FS remaining as it currently is.

  • Ipe

    I would cast Lightening Flash before Crushing Darkness actually. Lightning Flash gives you a buff to cast Crushing Darkness faster.

    • KTap

      Not ideal on the opener. If your tanks can count down and let people precast abilities, the group will do more damage (just make sure they pull and not you).

    • rngSorc

      And also to further add to KTap’s correct explanation. Why CD and not some other castable ability such as for example (CL, actually you would hard pre-cast CL if there was a group of mobs although you risk pulling their aggro if there is no quick aoe taunt). The reason is that it does single target more damage than your other cast abilities, it has a cd and it is a dot, so getting your dot rolling on non-combat time is a free bonus in damage and you have it earlier on cd. The same thing applies to all dps classes that have cast abilities; you basically choose your highest damage cast to pre-cast it on the pull countdown time.

  • Max

    How much alacrity do you have? Your casting looks very, very fast… and that’s with an ability delay?
    Also, what is your average ping and fps?

    • KTap

      In that parse I believe I had 1 piece, so ~1.54%. There’s some ability delay definitely, can see it a few times in video even.

      Average ping is 27-33 MS, fps during parses is normally 90-100.

      • Max

        Aha, now I see where my problem is (my parses are rather slow comparing to yours) – I have 55-60ms ping and for some reason the fps never goes above 60, even on lowest settings. Could that be the reason I can’t get my APM over 40.8? I also have 1 alacrity enhancement.

        • KTap

          I’m also using the old 4 piece, which adds a nice chunk of Alacrity (only works on Sorcs).

          Without the 4 piece and with no Alacrity, I still get ~44 apm.

          If you’re not using Force Speed at all, that could certainly contribute, I use whenever necessary to hit a LB with proc or cooldown up. APM could fluctuate heavily depending on Force Speed Usage.

          55-60 MS doesn’t seem so bad 😛 I know some people on Harbinger who are in/from AUS and other places, and they don’t/didn’t seem to have APM issues (although the MS was certainly noticeable).

          Is it possible for you to make a video? That’s the best way for me to see exactly what’s going on! A parse screenshot also works, but it’s a lot harder to evaluate 🙂

          • TheHarbingersKwerty

            Personally, I would kill for 60ms ping. Stupid lack of Aussie servers and forced to have >180 ping

          • Max

            Made that parse after my last comment, managed to get the APM a bit higher but it seems I used LB too many times – so its a derp parse anyway.
            My gear is 180/186 (crafted 186 enhancements) with a few 192 mods and 198 focus armoring. Old 4 piece Dread Forged set bonus. 768 Acc, Willpower 4188, Power 1383, Force Power 2708; Crit 242, Surge 333, Alacrity 102.
            It seems I should be parsing higher with those stats, and yet I haven’t managed to hit 4k so far – most likely because of the low APM.
            Also, my ability action queue is set to 1.0.

  • Archey

    So what’s the go with the 1 piece of alacrity? I found that by swapping out to a power/surge enh as opposed to the crit/alac enh I see my numbers going higher and not noticeable different to cast times or cooldown times. Is it a personal thing or does it actually help?

    • Cory

      Try swapping out 6 of your Augments with Alacrity Augments along with that 1 alacrity enhancement and see if you notice the difference in cast time, GCD, and DPS…you should. I’m running nearly 6% alacrity on my Madness Sorc and the top DPS Marauder right now is running almost 10% alacrity in his gear.

      • Archey

        So I swapped out my Willpower Augments for Alacrity and I’m still not seeing a difference in cast time or cooldowns and my numbers have dropped because of it. Swapped back to 1 piece of Alacrity Enhancement and found that Recklessness only slightly times up with Chain Lightning a little better. Other than that I personally can’t see any benefit to running any alacrity at all.

        • Sorcasin

          Yeah I was thinking the same. Wouldn’t the extra willpower make up for the less alacrity? And why only 1 piece of alacrity? Wouldn’t it be more beneficial to use only surge instead?

          Don’t get me wrong, I am just curious as to how much difference that 1 piece is making.

          • Cory

            I also don’t really understand the “1 piece” alacrity method. I’ve tested this many times and you benefit more from much more alacrity than just 1 piece. There’s also discussion in the forums right now about Alacrity having hidden “steps” or “tiers” if you will. Essentially this is where you might not see a DPS increase at all (and possibly even a decrease) going from 4% to 6% alacrity but going from 4% to 8% you would see a nice DPS increase. These numbers are examples of course because no one is sure of the exact numbers at this point since they are “hidden” and enough testing hasn’t been done. Blizzard did the same thing with the attack speed in the Turret Build for Demon Hunters in Diablo 3 where you had to stack a certain amount of attack speed before your turrets would actually start attacking faster.

            • Sorcasin

              So, if I understand what you saying, if I have 6% alacrity I will do worse than if I have 4% alacrity, but if I have 8% alacrity that is the point when it is actually an improvement?

              • Cory

                No, as I mentioned in the post above those numbers are only examples because no one really knows where the “steps” are for sure right now. You would basically need to play around with your gear and parsing to find out. I personally noticed a DPS increase when I hit the 5.32% mark that I’m at now and when I take away 1 alacrity piece from that I get a drop in DPS. On the flipside of that, when I add 1 or 2 alacrity pieces which puts me at almost 7% alacrity with 2 pieces added, I also notice a DPS decrease. I haven’t been able to test above 7% on my toon yet because I don’t have enough alacrity pieces but my friend is up to almost 9% alacrity on his toon and has noticed a DPS increase. We’re both fairly certain at this point, however, that there is no way to get to the next “step” above where he’s at because there just isn’t enough gear to go around since you have other stats to worry about as well.

        • Cory

          You won’t see any difference in 1 ability timing up better with another ability. Alacrity affects ALL abilities the same. The only thing it does is makes you do everything faster and the faster you go through a rotation, the more damage you’ll do people second essentially.

    • KTap

      Alacrity certainly helps if you can fit it into your gear.

  • Ipe

    Can someone tell me what they think of this rotation: Lightning Flash, Crushing Darkness, Affliction, Thundering Blast, Chain Lightning, Lightning Bolt (3 times), Force Lightning, Shock, and then rinse and repeat. This is the one i use and at bosses i pop Recklessness, Polarity Shift and relics along with a Cloud Mind every now and then.

    • KTap

      You’re missing a lot of dps by doing this.

      Force Lightning should not be in your rotation and you’re delaying Thundering Blast for too long.

      Have you tried using the opener in the guide?

      • Ipe

        I didn’t really show that as a opener, mine is pretty much the same as yours im referring to when you are past the opener and doesn’t Crushing Darkness not get a proc untill you cast Lightning Flash before it, or is there something I’m missing?

        • KTap

          That is correct. You want to use LF as many times as possible, but never delay a TB for LF. The rotation you listed has a lot of gcds with TB being off of cooldown, which isn’t ideal.

          Have you watched the video as well?

  • Aidurkim

    As i was thinking about droping my old 4 setbonus in favor of the new 4 setbonus and i feel like i lost DPS – is that just me, or is that really an issue for sorcerer. And another question : how about the real in combat DPS for lets say 2nd Boss Ravenger or 3rd Boss ToS ?

    • Cory

      You lose that alacrity bonus (5% I believe – not in game to check right now) from the old set when you go to the new set. Alacrity is more important now than it was pre-3.0 as you may be aware. A lot of people are keeping the old 4 piece along with the new 2 piece for now. I’m hoping Bioware will see that people are doing this and fix the 6 piece set bonuses to make them more viable. Replacing the new 6 piece bonus with the old 4 piece alacrity bonus would do the trick.

    • KTap

      The old 4 piece is very strong with the new Alacrity changes. I’m still using it myself and have noticed lower dps when testing 6 piece.

      As for Bulo, depending on your job during the fight it’s mostly a stationary with some minor movement for the blue circles. Ideally (and this will depend on your job/where the boss is) your dps shouldn’t be too far off of the dummy.

      For Underlurker, there is certainly some downtime and target switching, which will lower your dps. Idk exactly how much is lost, but if you feel like you’re doing the correct things, then I’m sure it’s fine!

      • Aidurkim

        Well then i need to run the old NiM Ops to get the Set-Tokens.. Thanks for the answer!

        • KTap

          I’m actually in the process of doing this, I’ve been using 180’s since 3.0 😀

          Just waiting on Raptus to be fixed for the pants now!

  • Picklejuice

    When target switching adds, is it ever not worth applying affliction for auto crit Thundering blast?

    • KTap

      If the add is going to die before your Affliction + Thundering Blast, yes 😛

      Otherwise, no.

  • Yallida

    Mix of 180/186/192 with only first set of new bonus (no old bonus) 4.5k

    • Vladislav

      I have only two questions. How many Alacrity you have and what you Crit Chance?

      • Vladislav

        *your

      • Yallida

        I don’t have any alacrity in gear or augments. Crit chance 25.05% (238 points) Surge 70%
        I’ve use 1 power augment 2 surge all rest willpower

        • Vladislav

          Thanks for answer.

  • “You want to use Polarity shift before your Attack Adrenal (or any cooldown without a timed debuff on your bar). The 20% Alacrity will reduce the cooldown of your adrenal from 3 minutes to 2 minutes and 30 seconds without any additional Alacrity (The math doesn’t seem to add up, but it is indeed 30 seconds and not 36 seconds).”

    This is true, but using the adrenal after polarity-shift will also cut it’s duration down by 2.5 seconds afaik, making it a bit of a mixed blessing. If it actually allows you to use an extra adrenal, it could be an advantage, but if not you lose out on adrenal uptime.

    Oh, and the math does work if you use the right formula. 180 sec / 120% speed = 150 seconds. You seem to be doing 180 sec * (100-20%), which is a formula that would make everything instant with 100% alacrity. The actual formula makes everything twice as fast with 100% alacrity, which makes more sense.

  • Force’Storm

    Mix 180/186/192/198 with new PvP 2 piece set and 4 piece old set (with 162 boots oops)
    Willpower- 4243
    Power- 1296
    Critical- 240
    Surge- 462
    Alacrity- 120
    Accuracy- 772

    • Azimez

      I just dont get, how can be my hits much lower than yours. I have got same amount of crit, surge alacrity and accu. Got 1647 power. The only willpower is 200 lower than yours. But my Avg* Thunder is around 9k, “Chain lightning” 7700. Just wondering, how is it possible.
      Any ideas ? Thanks for you answer
      P.S. Very nice parse

      • Lolololl

        His parse has
        40.7% Crit. = Very lucky.

        • Force’Storm

          This is force storm

          This spec is pree RNG related… I’ve had anywhere from 35% crit all the way up to 42% crit… It also depends on whats criting as well… for example is all of you force storms crit then your going to have a very high parse… if you affliction is critting and your force storm is not then it will be a shitty parse

          • Force’Storm

            LOL it let me use the name without loging in cool

        • Force’Storm

          To back up my point if you look at the 5.1k parse that Spoon did you’ll see his crit on his Force Storm is over 65%

  • hellcall

    In your rotation you didn’t mention using force speed , yet on the vid u did to get the prof for LB (2) , do we use the force speed on CD ?

    • KTap

      Check “Force Speed Use” in the guide.

  • Rusterz

    Im using full 186, parts 192 and all augments, with adrenals and stims etc, but im only hitting around 3.6k-3.7k, any ideas?

    • KTap

      Hard to give any advice when I have no data to go on 🙂

      Is it possible for you to make a video? That’s the best way for me to see what’s going on.

      Otherwise, if you could tell me your opener / basic rotation with a screenshot of your logs, that would be great.

      • Rusterz

        I will provide a parse next time im in game, but since this comment i hit 3,774… I have been told its because im a clicker, and i use Force Storm too much, as i use it every time it comes around. But ive also been told its because im not queing my actions quick enough.

        • Well… stop using nothing but Force Storm and start doing what this guide tells you to do?

  • Spoon (CoU) @ pot5

    Yo, I like your guide mate. Lightning has long been one of my favorite specs and it’s nice to see it so strong in this iteration of content. I was wondering if you could share and information you’ve gleaned on optimal crit since writing the guide?

    I was doing some experimenting yesterday between 80 and 240, but the mean variance between the two gear sets was only like 20 dps, which seems odd (without using adrenal or unlimited power- idk if this affects optimal crit), because I would expect a little more crit to be better with the surge buffs on so many abilities.

    Perhaps I am doing something strange that makes crit less useful?

    • Azimez

      What stats do you have ? Crit, surge, acc, alacrity. And last question : in which situation are you using Force storm. Thanks

      • Spoon (CoU) @ pot5

        Well that’s the discussion I would really like to have about stats, because I’m not sure what’s optimal and was trying to get some experimental data of my own but have now given up and am asking the author of this guide lol. Atm using about 200 crit 350 surge 770 acc and 111 alac, but what I want to get to the bottom of is the optimal crit.

        When you get the chance, you can use force storm instead of lightning bolt in an operation or dummy, until they nerf it. It’ll do more damage, especially if used with recklessness, not least because it has a 30% surge boost from the tree. Swap it in and out with lightning bolt as mobility and force allow.

        I wouldn’t look too much at that parse as it was done without raid buff or adrenal during my crit testing, it’s just representative of relative casts for each ability in my personal case.

        • Azimez

          And how much power do you have. Cuz i have same Accu, alacrity and 460 surge. And you have much bigger hits than i have. Im lost rly 😀

          • Spoon (CoU) @ pot5

            idk are you wearing gear? I was really trying to have a conversation about optimal crit

            • Vladislav

              About Critical. I think there 4 number (Not sure how SWTOR calculate (How many number after point) and how SWTOR rounds number).

              Until 57 Ctical Rating 1 Critical Rating give you 0.0185012 (I think SWTOR think that this amout equally 0.019)

              Next, 65 Critical. 1 Critical Rating = 0.0184551% Critical Chance (I think that still 0.019 for game)

              145 Critical. 1 Critical = 0.0180024% Critical Chance

              And last, 237 Critical. 1 Critical = 0.0175000% Critical Chance

              • TheHarbingersKwerty

                Nah, SWTOR runs crit rating off an inverted exponential scale. The formula for it (from level 51 onwards) is:

                Crit % from rating = 30 * (1 – (29/30) ^ (Rating / (Level * 0.9)) )

              • Vladislav
              • TheHarbingersKwerty

                I got the formula from a combination of KeyboardNinja, and from testing it in-game.

                Though when he put the formula down it was a lot more complicated:

                30 * ( 1 – ( 1 – ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( CritRating / 55 ) / 0.9 ) )

                is the formula at level 55. It was later revealed the 55 is the level of the user, so at 60 it becomes

                30 * ( 1 – ( 1 – ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( CritRating / 60 ) / 0.9 ) )

                This is actually where I got the information from. Only I simplified it a little.

              • Vladislav

                I dont calculate its manually so for me doesnt matter how long formula. Also this dont change number from upper post

              • Spoon (CoU) @ pot5

                I guess I kinda have a feel for how the DR scales off as you go up in the hundreds, I was just wondering what people think is optimal for mean dps in this spec… because on one hand you have the auto crit TB and recklesness, but on the other hand you have surge boosts to a ton of abilities.

              • Vladislav

                I think there 3 amout of Critical request try
                0 Crtiical, 52 Critical (One aug or 198 “A” mod x1), ~219 Critical.

    • KTap

      Hey Spoon, sorry for the delay!

      I’m finally BiS now after last night, so I’ll be heavily testing different setups in the very near future, including crit ratings.

      No new information on crit as of yet though!

      • Spoon (CoU) @ pot5

        Np mate, look forward to hearing the results 🙂 I was thinking that to get the highest possible parse you’d probably want very little and just repeatedly push your face into the keyboard until you get a good result, but a few hundred would give better mean results on a long fight, although confirmation and specific targets would be a lovely thing to know :)… I also think more power would be better for burn phases, e.g rev commanders, blaster, because of recklessness…. but idk if everyone would agree.

        p.s. if by BiS you mean you have a 198 MH, then i am pretty jelly 😛

        • KTap

          Yea, killed Revan in 8 and 16 man now… Sorcs are not very good on floor 3. Fortunately, we have lots of Cheesers with Hydraulics.

          I did some preliminary testing with Crit rating here – http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8014414#post8014414

          I’ll certainly be doing more at some point, I’m just trying to get some preliminary numbers for the things I’ll be testing atm.

          • Nice testing. Are those with power augments or willpower augments? As that’ll change the impact of crit a bit.

            • KTap

              Willpower.

  • Azimez

    Hello, can someone give me an advice. Why are my hits so low. Avg* and Avg without crit. ( Main, Off hand 192) THanks for the answer

    • KTap

      Are you using 186/192 comm gear?

      The mods and enhancements are unoptimized and give less damage stats.

      • Azimez

        Nah, all my mods and enhacements are from tokens. The only Earpiece is trash.
        But still, my stats are ok. Arent they ?

        • Yallida

          Imo u have much to low mainstat… In that moment u gain much more dps with willpower augs. Currently I have above 4.4k mainstat and depends of crit magnitude my avg hits of TB are always above 10k

          • Azimez

            Thank you for the tip. I will try it. But i dont think 200 less mainstat can costs 1k less TB AVG*

            • I don’t think you’re missing that much, people aren’t hitting 10k on the dummy with gear like that. They’re either in full optimized 198, or hitting softer targets like trash mobs, 55 bosses, or pvp targets. If you look at KTap’s log, he’s critting for 9600 with TB, just 300 difference, which can easily be explained by 200 mainstat, and maybe a bit of power. My own TB on the dummy hits for about 100 more in a mix of reasonably optimized 180/186/192.

          • Mainstat and power augments are more or less equivalent for sorcs, willpower certainly doesn’t work much better. You can easily have less than 4k mainstat and hit 10K on TB.

            Both are loads better than any other augment or no augment though.

        • What did you do to get your surge up that high? If you have augmented surge anywhere, replace that with power or willpower as soon as you can.

          Still, the average hits aren’t so bad, optimizing stat distribution won’t get you more than ~200 dps. The rest will be rotation. I’d consider using Force Storm a lot less (only with Recklessness up) and pretty much stick closer to this guide. Once you get your APM up by knowing the priorities well and always pre-casting, dps should go up.

  • Tyrkota

    Where is the PVP information? This is all PVE.

    • Nyxato

      Yeah it’s supposed to be PvE

  • Polokie

    Lots of good parses! I can only muster 4.8k on a 500k dummy with full new set, no old set. I can’t quite get down when to use Force Storm. 1 Alac piece, 110% Acc, ~24%Crit, 70% surge, 13 Willpower Augs/1 Surge Aug.

    • Polokie

      I do have 1 question, it seems that have more than 120 Alacrity doesn’t affect the casting times, but my question is: Does Polarity Shift scale to your currently Alacrity stat? Meaning, does Polarity Shift take into account your current Alacrity?

      • Tundan

        You’ll see the effect of alacrity most in your GCD and longer cast times (like Thundering Blast and force storm). All of your abilities give you a flat alacrity % increase; 5% from 5 stacks of focal lightning and 20% from Polarity Shift. This means that a base ~1.5% alac from gear becomes 6.5%, which becomes 26.5% with PS.

  • Zendane

    Hey, im 4 piece set 192/198 fully Augmented – my opening is ok but im struggling to keep numbers up after the opening ive tried the process thru the thundering blasts but i just cant grasp it – i am a clicker but using a MMO Mouse which has helped a little – any more advise???

  • Zendane

    This was a 5 min Parse if you can get any info from it – i.e am i using something too much or something not enough???

    • You seem to use force storm a lot, I’d recommend only using it with recklessness, without it it’s not really better than your other fillers (for single target).

      But mostly, your APM is very low, which means you have a lot of time between the end of one cast and the start of the next. Try setting your ability queue to at least 0.5 seconds and keybind if you haven’t. The queue means you can press the next ability before the previous cast ended (except when channeling force storm), minimizing the gaps between abilities. Getting your APM from 30 to 40+ will boost your output a lot.

      • Zendane

        Was already set at 0.5 so ive changed to 1 – will see how it goes in Ravagers tonight

        Cheers

        • Good luck! Although 1 second can sometimes trip you up during raids when circumstances change (like Ruugar holding a hostage), so it might prove too much.
          Most important thing is to use the pre-cast. With key bindings, I tend to be spam-pushing the next power I want to cast, because the animation and interface showing your power is done can easily lag up to 0.5 seconds. So when I know my next ability will be TB, I’m already serial-clicking ‘2’ (my bind) until I see it activate, then go for the next ability. This keeps lag down, and ups APM (and thereby dps) a lot, on the dummy and in ops.

    • Psyotic

      Use the prioritylist, evertime cast something, forcestorm only with recklessness

      • Psyotic

        @Hache-Moncour

  • Zendane

    My Stats are as follows

    Power =1768
    crit = 226
    surge 351

  • Mornae

    Hi, I’m fairly new to SWTOR and you mentioned adrenal + unlimited power. What are these, please.

    • Adrenals are consumable items crafted with Biochem or bought from the GTN. For a sorcerer dps, you’ll want an Attack Adrenal. These come in various qualities, with the better ones being more expensive.

      Unlimited Power is a sorcerer ability that gives your whole group a boost to main stats (with a 5 minute cooldown).

  • Mornae

    Thank you that is very helpful.

  • Blayn

    Anyone know why 109,5 accuracy and not 110? Like every DD class guide other then sorces advises to have 100/110 accuracy, but not on this one.

    • Leface

      Yes, anyone?

      • I personally put this and “surge augments can be useful” on the list of crazy stuff I skip in the guide. KTap seems to have an aversion to theorycrafting, but surge augments and <110% accuracy simply make zero sense in numbers.

        • KTap

          An aversion? No.

          I’ve just seen theorycrafted ideas/gear/rotations/etc be wrong on multiple occasions, so I choose to not take their word that it’s the best and test things myself.

          I also added in my guide what you would want gear-wise to do to go over the cap, and to stay under the cap at your own risk. It’s up the the individual to decide if they can live with a small miss chance.

    • Because with 109,5x and up, your miss chance is already in the 0,0X% area. This is practically irrelevant. And everything above 110 is even more wasted. You could have more AP or Willpower or whatever else and benefit more from it.

  • perringo

    I feel as if I must be doing something wrong with the gear or the rotation, I cannot break 4k dps and need some kind of magic tip! I have the 6 piece set bonus and have followed the advice in the guide, i feel as if the rotation is going well but I must be missing something! Can I get some help?

    • On first sight I don’t see much wrong in your log, I’m running similar gear (although I do use the old 4-piece set, which I believe is a bit better) with about 70 more bonus damage, and getting about 4700 dps on the dummy.

      Your APM is a bit low (should be about 42 without force-speed, or 44-45 with), so there might be a few hundred dps there, but not enough to explain the difference. I also note you seem to clip your Force Storms very early (3 casts should be 18 hits, you only have 10), but that too is just a small difference. If you put your log up on Parsely (http://swtor-parser.elasticbeanstalk.com/) we can see your rotation in more detail.

      Are you using the “Shattered Armor” modifier on the dummy? It simulates the various debuffs a raid with all classes will put on a boss, and it usually used when measuring dps.

      • perringo

        Yes I am clipping force storm when TB comes off or CD comes off cooldown so maybe I could do that better and I do not always use force speed on cooldown as I am told that can be a drop in DPS. In fact, when I have used it on cooldown, nothing really went up but could be random.

        Anyway here is the parse – thanks for the help!

        http://swtor-parser.elasticbeanstalk.com/parser/view/11531

        • The main reason force storm is good on a single target is that the whole cast only consumes one stack of recklessness, if you clip it, most of that advantage is lost. I generally hold my recklessness back until TB comes of cooldown, then do TB -> (something) -> Recklessness -> CL -> Storm -> TB. The “something” should generally be FL or CD. If both are on cooldown, do one of them after the storm instead. This way you’ll never have to clip the storm for TB.

          Looking at the “ability usage” tab and comparing with one of my own logs (http://swtor-parser.elasticbeanstalk.com/parser/view/9997 ), I don’t see any major differences. I think it’s lots of small things adding up:

          – My APM is about 10% higher (with the same force speed use), meaning I likely have a little less time between abilities, try to always have your next ability queued. Part of it will be my using the old armor set, giving me about 3% more alacrity.
          – Always using recklessness with CL + a full force storm
          – You forgot ultimate power
          – Always make sure to use polarity shift just before TB, so the second TB will be inside the window (and have it’s cooldown reduced)
          – Using Shock instead of LB whenever possible (with the double shock talent)
          – Combine the adrenal with polarity shift and recklessness, instead of using it later
          – Have some lucky crits 🙂

          No magic bullet, all these things add small bits of dps which add up in the end. Since Lightning doesn’t really have any energy management, getting the APM higher will add the most significant amount of dps.

          Good luck!

          • perringo

            It’s really great that you would take the time to help me, I will have a look and let you know the results!

          • perringo

            http://swtor-parser.elasticbeanstalk.com/parser/view/11698
            Managed to get up to 4316.19 within a couple of tries and there was definitely some things I was still getting wrong so I reckon I could get into the 4400s easily now, thanks!

  • Yallida

    Hello
    Anyone tested “new lightning” on PTS?

    • TheHarbingersKwerty

      I believe it was reported as a 2-300 DPS loss from live, and Force Storm is removed from your single target rotation.

      However, the PTS is currently down, so you can’t go test it out (they broke something mid-update last time and they are waiting till they fix it till they put it back up)

      • Yallida

        Thanks for answer 🙂
        Well I’m not worried about removing FS from single target rotation coz I never use it on boss fights. More worry about that 2-300 dps loss because it’s hard to break 4.7k dps on dummy without force storm using. My max parse with no FS was 4.689k so after realse 3.2 it will be arround 4.3 which means on boss encounters dps will oscillate about 4.0-4.2k… 🙁
        Damn iit’s time to level up merc and gear him up 🙁

  • Fyrflygrl

    Is this more PvP or PvE oriented? I’m pretty new to the game and I do mostly solo PvE.

    • PvE

      • Fyrflygrl

        Yes, for PvE

        • TheHarbingersKwerty

          Force Storm -> Force Storm -> Chain Lightning. Repeat

          Don’t do this beyond level 30-ish though

  • Voth

    now this guide need an update !

  • Busty

    Has anyone got a new rotation yet??… I’ve noticed I’m doing about 20% less damage

    • Yallida

      Basically there is no new rotation. 20% less dmg is normal because u loose 5% from Forked Lightning and Forked Darkness.
      Forked Lightning affects Thundering Blast, Chain Lightning, Lightning Bolt and Lightning Flash.
      Forked Darkness affects Crushing Darkness.
      On both u loose 5% to produce 2nd hit from above skills and that’s why we loose 15-20% overall dps.

      The main change is that u don’t use FS in rotation anymore.
      Two charges of recklessness u should consume on combination Chain Lightning+Lightning Bolt or just on Lightning Bolt.
      On SWTOR forum is post where someone parse in not fully optimized 198s 4.667k dps.
      Yesterday I parse 4.3k in not optimized 192 BiS gear but it’s really hard to proceed such linear dps than before.

      • TheHarbingersKwerty

        The rotation does slightly change due to Lightning Flash’s cooldown increase, but since I suck at playing my sage I’ll leave it to other people to explain how it changes.

      • Voth

        “Basically there is no new rotation. 20% less dmg is normal because u loose 5% from Forked Lightning and Forked Darkness.
        Forked Lightning affects Thundering Blast, Chain Lightning, Lightning Bolt and Lightning Flash.
        Forked Darkness affects Crushing Darkness.
        On both u loose 5% to produce 2nd hit from above skills and that’s why we loose 15-20% overall dps.”

        Entirely wrong maths. Loosing 5% on multiple abilities will never represent more than 5% DPS loss, due to the fact everything stacks only up to 100% total damage.

        Still, there is a loss, but sorcerer in my guild sits around 4700+dps in mixed 192-198 token gear.

  • Aristey

    Could someone explain as to why the lightning sorcs now use Shock in their rotation?
    Top leaderboards from http://swtor-parser.elasticbeanstalk.com/parser/leaderboard have it.
    Compared to Lightning Bolt the base damage is lower and even with utility the same 25% chance to trigger a second one with 25% damage as for Lightning Bolt?

    • random

      They used it pre 3.1.2, where the Utility gave a 50% proc chance with 50% damage. The Utlity is nerfed now however.

    • ConstitutionalRepublican

      It’s castable while running, which often times you are doing.

  • skrim

    Can anyone explain me what proc means? And I also don’t understand on the ideal opener rotation what it means to pre-cast Crushing Darkness since it’s an offensive spell. To me, at least, pre-cast is something you do before entering battle and can apply to you or your party. Can someone elucidate me please?

    • Proc, in swtor, generally refers to to an ability that gives a buff that alters another ability. For example, using lightning flash gives you a buff that shortens the casting time of crushing darkness. In other words, LF procs CD. Originally proc would refer to things that have a random chance of happening, but it’s now used for any sort of buff to another specific ability.

      The crushing darkness is considered a “pre-cast” because it doesn’t initialize combat until it hits at the end of it’s cast, so the two seconds you spend casting it are done outside of combat.

      Do note that with the 3.2 sorc changes the ideal opener is no longer ideal, as Force Storm is no longer useful as a single target ability. Use recklessness before LF+CL instead, as those are now your hardest-hitting abilities, and then just follow the priority system.

  • Hanha

    Hi there, nice guide you have written. I have a question regarding stats, are these stats (25% crit for instance) raid buffed stats or absolutely unbuffed, no stim, no nothing. I never seem to get a clear answer anywhere. My Lightning Sorcerer is at following stats fully buffed:

    Force:
    Accuracy: 110.12
    Crit: 30.03
    Crit Multiplier: 67.54
    Alacrity: 1.47
    Bonus DMG: 1794.2
    Willpower: 4183

    I have 6 Willpower and 6 Power augments and 2 Accuracy Augments. 2 Set bonus 192 gear and a few 198 peices too. Unbuffed it looks a bit different if you know what i mean.. if however buffed i only need 25% crit then surely I can change a few things and convert to a bit more power?

    • Yallida

      Stack up Crit Multi to 69.10% (360 points)
      More power in gear.
      Use willpower not power (free crit)
      About crit… personal i don’t trust high amount of this. Currently I’m using 171 crit rating and in 192′ I’m parsing 4.6 – 4.7k.
      With over 300 crit rating my parses was arround 4.3 – 4.5k

  • Nietz

    Hey, do you still use recklessness with force storm after the nerf?

    • No, unless you can get 3+ targets in it you don’t use force storm at all. Instead use it with Lightning Flash (and still with CL of course).

  • buffsorcs

    could use an up to date guide..

    • Shaddoh Killmore

      Indeed, at the very least it would be nice to know when it was revised last. I’ve noticed different guides have communication as to when the guide was last updated. Either way I really appreciate the FREE guide and the effort it must have taken to compose this.

  • Insignes

    Guys, any ideas of replacing FS in the opening rotation
    i just have no idea what to do with it since FS nerf

    • saboosh

      I just pulled it and fill with LB wherever I need

  • Nelly

    Can someome explain to me how he’s hitting for 10k+ With TB when he claims this is with mix of 180/186/192? I have full 192 with 2 198 (chest and hands) but never score more than 9.5k hits, and that’s only with good relic timings.

    • Nelly

      One important thing i forgot to mention, my mainhand hilt is still 186.

      • saboosh

        What is your crit/will/pow mix? What augments are you using? My only guess is that your mix is suboptimal. I’ve played with crit like he explains and it has a significant impact

        • Nelly

          Accuracy: 110.03% (761)
          Crit: 24.33% (240 from gear)
          Surge: 74.72% (609 from gear)
          Bonus damage: 1814.4
          Willpower: 3925

          I have 2 accuracy augs, 2 surge, 2 willpower and rest are power.
          Some of my augs and enhancements are from the comm vendor which i know are suboptimal, i am probably getting a lot more endurance than i should (4453). Could that be it?

          • saboosh

            Thats really high surge and endurance and pretty low willpower, Id expect closer to 4.3k willpower with 192/198.. so cut back on the surge and endurance and bring willpower up. im curious what your crit mult is? Comm vendors are fine for pieces to get top enhancements and mods but you definitely want the set bonus over the next level gear, but the set bonus is in the armoring so you can just rip 198 mods and enhancements off non set pieces…. just make sure those pieces are higher willpower (eg. Force-Lord 192 set rather than the duelist set, the latter is tank spec)

  • Thund

    There’s a cool down prob for lightning flash

  • Ian Jonathan

    would using a Force Adrenal instead of an Attack Adrenal be so bad?
    Affliction>PS+Reck+Force Adrenal>TB>CL….etc
    (lvl 60 full 186-198 power+surge+accuracy gear atm)

    • Xzelsius

      lol. you need to go @ 110% accuracy.. so drop some surge. add small amount of crit und use a Attack Adrenal.. because your Force Adrenal will reduce damage done by 20%..

      • Jon Nova

        cool thanks.
        I know about the accuracy. I haven’t started using augments yet and I’m not worrying about it until i’m putting on more Massassi gear.
        So, how would the Force Adrenal reduce damage?

      • AdjeYo

        I think you might be thinking about the triage adrenal, force adrenal doesn’t actually reduce damage dealt. It increases surge by 750, which is way over the cap, so it generally isn’t near the usefulness of attack adrenals.

        • Jon Nova

          thanks AdjeYo

  • Darryl

    Why do sorcs need any accuracy at all? I thought force and tech attacks cannot miss.

    • This was changed with 3.0. All DPS classes now need accuracy.

      • Close Shave

        could you please explain? I don’t get it either… if you have over 100% acc, how can you miss?

        • You have to look at Tech/Force Tab in the Character Sheet. You will need 110% there. Of course this isn’t achievable with current gear, the closest you can get with 192 gear is 110.5%.
          Everything above 110% (Or 100% in the melee tab, which you should ignore) actually adds armor reduction, making your attacks effectively piercing through armor.

        • Kithrik

          You need 110 because raid bosses have 10% damage mitigation from armor and every 1% above 100% accuracy reduces boss mitigation by the same amount.

  • Forcequake

    great guide thanks 🙂 much appreciated not many websites talk about swtor or show guides anymore thanks for holding on Dulfy

  • Exiled

    Is the rotation the same for pvp?

  • Marc Gyver

    Hi, is it possible to make a Guide for Sorcerer PVE Lightning 4.0 ?

  • Master274

    Is this even viable for 4.0?

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