SWTOR 3.0 Madness Sorcerer Guide by Milas

SWTOR 3.0 Madness Sorcerer DPS Guide by Milas of Harbinger.

Intro to Madness Sorcerer

We got our time as king in the 2.8 patch. Bioware has since came out and said clipping was never intended and the 3.0 iteration of Madness is new and frustrating as it needs missing DPS to make it competitive with lighting. With all this said its in a extremely good place PvP wise. The discipline plays nearly identical to how it played before the expansion it just has two new abilities and a lot less spamming of Force Lighting.

Ratings

  • Sustained DPS: 5 (Lowest parsing spec)
  • AoE Damage: 8 (Dots spreading to multiple targets)
  • Group Utility: 10 (Self healing, bubble, pull, class buff, raid heal)
  • Burst: 5
  • Rotation Difficulty: 5 (7-8 for getting most out of 2 piece window)
  • RNG dependence: No
  • Execute bonus: Dots increased by 15% under 30%

Utilities

Skillful – Force Suffusion + Empty Body + Tempest Mastery + Sith Defiance

  • Force Suffusion – Free group heal use when group stacked and low on HP.
  • Tempest Mastery – Not nearly as good in madness but still good AoE damage.
  • Empty Body – Healers healing you more
  • Sith Defiance – Free 3% DR as Force Storm isn’t apart of our single target rotation.

Masterful – Suppression + Dark Resilience + Electric Bindings + Backlash + Corrupted Flesh

  • Suppression – Great DCD for reducing incoming damage you can’t avoid
  • Dark Resilience – Increases your free off the GCD heal
  • Electric Bindings – Only real use is on Revanite Commanders KB root for all nearby enemies
  • Backlash – Only real use on Revanite Commanders stuns nearby enemies when Static Barrier erupts
  • Corrupted Flesh – Decreases amount of periodic damage you take by 15%

Heroic – Corrupted Barrier + Force Haste + Force Mobility + Shapeless Spirit

  • Corrupted Barrier – Free heal when you use Static Barrier or Force Barrier. At 50k HP ticks for 1130 per second.
  • Force Haste – Decreases CD of Force Speed and Force Barrier by 5 and 30 thirty
  • Force Mobility – Use Force Leech while moving ( Main rotation ability)
  • Shapeless Spirit – Used for fights like NM Brontes. Receive 30% less damage while stunned

New Stuff to Madness in 3.0

  • Wrath – Damage increase down from 35% to 25% on four stack Wrath with LS, CD, Demolish
  • Creeping Terror – No longer has a CD
  • Pestilence – Spreads your CT/Affliction to targets you hit under AFF/CT. Overwhelm: Increases area attacks by 10 seconds for 45 seconds.
  • Disintegration – Force Leech and Lighting Strike crit chance increased by 5%
  • Lighting Burns – LS no longer has a 60% chance to apply was moved to Force Leech. FL % still remains same.
  • Force Leech – New ability that hits the target and heals for 50% of the damage dealt.
  • Creeping Death – No longer grants surge bonus when dots crit. Now increases dot damage under 30% by 15%.
  • Parasitism – Increases life stolen by DF & Force Leech by 100%. Also causes AFF/CT to steal life and heal you for 25% of life stolen.
  • Lighting Barrage – Decreases Force lighting channel by 33% but reduces damage from FL by 25%.
  • Demolish – New Ability replaces Crushing Darkness does same thing just more damage and applies Vulnerable: Increases damage by force attacks by 5% for 45 seconds.
  • Devour – Force leech does 25% more damage to targets affected by your affliction. Each tick of Deathmark restores two force

New Passives & Abilities to pay attention to

  • Force Leech – New ability that hits the target and heals for 50% of the damage dealt.
  • Demolish – New Ability replaces Crushing Darkness does same thing just more damage and applies Vulnerable: Increases damage by force attacks by 5% for 45 seconds.
  • Lighting Barrage – Decreases Force lighting channel by 33% but reduces damage from FL by 25%.
  • Creeping Death – No longer grants surge bonus when dots crit. Now increases dot damage under 30% by 15%.
  • Lighting Burns – LS no longer has a 60% chance to apply was moved to Force Leech. FL % still remains same.
  • Pestilence – Spreads your CT/Affliction to targets you hit under AFF/CT. Overwhelm: Increases area attacks by 10 seconds for 45 seconds.
  • Devour – Force leech does 25% more damage to targets affected by your affliction. Each tick of death mark restores two force

These passives abilities make up what is the 3.0 Madness sorcerer. Some of them saw heavy nerfs others are new and give you additional damage. When playing keep these in the back of your mind when analyzing logs and damage output.

Gearing & Stat Priority

Accuracy (assuming you have 1% companion bonus. If you don’t, get it!) – Personally I think that anything above 109.64% Force accuracy is sufficient.

What I would personally recommend based on gear level:

  • 186 gear (Dread Master) – 7 Accuracy pieces (~109.57% Accuracy) (add one augment to go over cap)
  • 192 gear (Resurrected) – 6 Accuracy pieces + 1 Accuracy augment (~109.61% Accuracy) (add one more augment to go over cap)
  • 198 gear (Revanite) – 6 Accuracy pieces (~109.63% Accuracy) (add one augment to go over cap)

Crit – With the loss of our Surge talent in 3.0 there is little reason to run an abundance of crit. I’ve never fully test crit from 100-500 range, I prefer more static results, and like to run as little crit as possible. When Mikey had the #1 parse from 2.8 with 328 crit I had the #2 parse which was about 30dps behind his with 120 crit. I’d recommended little to no crit in the range of 80-140. When I get around to gearing my sorc I will test with zero crit and update from there.

Power – Stack this everywhere you can, I’d even if I wasn’t poor and didn’t have access to free Willpower augments would of tested with these.

Surge – As you get two free critical hits every minute and thirty you want to be close to 70% (333 is 68.24% )

Alacrity – All of my testing was done above the 300 alacrity mark as it speeds up your rotation, dot appliance and the amount of Lighting Strikes you can use. Mikey’s parses use roughly the same amount.

Augments – I’m using Willpower augments as they grant nearly 2% free crit and I run little crit (120), so I treat it as a free stat gain over static ability damage gain. Will test this at a future date.

Relics – Serendipitous Assault and Focused Retribution.

Set Bonus – Run the new two piece and old four piece. The static alacrity gain you get from the old set bonus is great and the new six piece is rather mediocre in madness. In the parse comparison below you see Mikey using 22 Lighting Strikes and I used 29 which isn’t better than a 5% alacrity gain.

* The old set bonus is bugged/broken on Republic side*

Abilities and Rotation

Main Abilities

  • Death Field
  • Affliction
  • Creeping Terror
  • Demolish
  • Force Leech
  • Force Lighting
  • Lighting Strike

Can be used on move if above on CD or can’t use

  • Overload
  • Shock

Ideal Opener

* Unlimited Power used near 30% at first appliance of dots at or near 30%*

* Affliction now hits on ability usage*

Hard cast Demolish –> Offensive CDs ( Polarity Shift, Adrenal,Recklessness) –> Affliction –> Creeping Terror –> Death Field –> Force Leech –> Force Lighting –> Lighting Strike –> Force Lighting ( sit on wrath proc Demolish off CD < 2 seconds) –> Force Lighting ( Clip as soon as demolish off CD)

swtor-3.0-madness-sorc-opener

Ability Priority

  1. Dots ( Affliction, Creeping Terror, Demolish (When you have four wrath stacks)
  2. Death Field
  3. Force Lighting ( only if not sitting on four wrath stacks)
  4. Force Leech
  5. Lighting Strike

While I want to do a advanced rotation time wise (30-45 seconds into rotation) its nearly impossible to do as the alacrity gains and DoT timers don’t line up. Best cast for highest DPS is to plan out your next two-three GCD’s and see when/where you need to refresh dots, keep Wrath stacks, and are free to use Force Lightning

AoE Rotation

  1. Dots applied
  2. Death Field (spreads)
  3. Force Storm

Sample Parse & Video

swtor-3.0-madness-sorc-parse

Here are four parses, two from Vierge and one each from Mikey and I. As you can see the vast majority of our damage still comes Force Lighting. Most of the parse read similar to one from 2.8, however the main difference are the number of Lighting Strikes with the change in clipping and the addition of Force Leech.

I couldn’t load Mikey’s/Vierge’s parse into star parse ( think because its not from my combat log folder) for better comparison on the sub 30% burn.

swtor-3.0-hatred-assassin-sample-parse-2swtor-3.0-hatred-assassin-sample-parse-3

As you can see its a big gain in overall DPS.

Video

Madness in Ops/FPs & You

Operation/Flashpoint Utility and Defensive Cooldowns (from Ktap)

  • Unlimited power – Group/operation wide buff, increasing all main stats by 10% for 10 seconds. I recommend using it on your opener. This is assuming mechanics allow for it, your tanks can hold aggro, and you won’t need it for a burn phase within the next 5 minutes.
  • Force Speed – Use when necessary, whether it’s for the speed boost or for the instant Lightning Bolts.
  • Cloud Mind – Aggro drop, use when necessary to reduce threat or to reduce damage taken with the Suppression Utility.
  • Expunge – Use to get rid of cleansable debuffs that should be cleansed. Can be used on other people in your group if necessary.
  • Electrocute – 4 second hard stun, can be useful in Flashpoints and against some trash in operations.
  • Force Storm – Can slow or even stun enemies caught in it, useful in Flashpoints and some trash in operations.
  • Reanimation – Use to revive necessary dead players in your group. You should be reviving teammates, not the healers (coordinate with other revive capable dps so you’re not all trying to revive someone at the same time). Reanimate wisely – if there’s 2 or more people dead, revive the more necessary teammate (normally tank or healer).
  • Extrication – Friendly pull, use when necessary to save somebody from mechanics (they are stuck in a corner, dying in fire/acid, they need to be where you are, etc). Can also be used to lower someone’s threat amount (shouldn’t be necessary).
  • Unnatural Preservation – A free, powerful, instant self heal that is off the gcd (global cooldown). There is no reason not to use this is you’re below 80% life and there’s no current downtime in the fight.
  • Resurgence – An instant heal and an over time heal in one. This is on the gcd so use sparingly during combat, but if there’s downtime, feel free to use this in combination with Dark Heal to help the healers out.
  • Dark Heal – An expensive casted heal. Should only be used during downtime or when absolutely necessary (healers are dead or extremely hard pressed).
  • Overload – The knockback is very situational, and mostly useless for ops, but the heal while using Force Suffusion is definitely a nice utility for some fights. Whether it’s during combat or during downtime, this can really help healers who are hard pressed. It’s capable of being an instant 3k+ heal (with crit) on everybody it hits (up to 8 people including you), which is insane for a dps. It is on the gcd as well, so only use when necessary (or during downtime).
  • Unbreakable Will – Use when necessary to get rid of movement impairing effects or stuns that can be broken.
  • Consumption – Should never be necessary, but if you’re extremely low on force, it can be used to get a quick boost to your force pool.
  • Force Barrier – Use when necessary to avoid damage, whether it’s a giant hit at full health, or if you’re going to die if you get hit again. If you’re confident enough to do the fight without needing Force Barrier for protection, it can be used to avoid mechanics and increase dps (example: ignoring a knockback and getting back to dpsing sooner). Can also be used to heal yourself using the Corrupted Barrier utility.
  • Static Barrier – Use when necessary. For instance, if you get a giant grenade (or some similar unavoidable damage) on you and it’s about to blow up. Also, if there’s no sorc healer, or they’re otherwise occupied, I try and bubble people who are going to take similar unavoidable damage (only for big hitting things like grenades/bombs/etc, not something that’s going to not hit very hard). You can also bubble your tank(s) if they are dying and there’s no sorc healer in the group. Can also be used to heal yourself using the Corrupted Barrier utility.

We do not have issues with our force pool (under normal circumstances), so don’t be afraid to bubble everybody in your group if there’s sufficient downtime and your force pool permits. This is assuming that there is no sorc healer who uses more powerful Static Barriers.

These utilities can make or break a fight, and it’s up to you to decide what to use and when to use them as the fight dictates. They are all situational. Good luck!

Videos of Madness Sorcs in Operations

Madness played in SM Ravagers & Temple of Sacrifice

Self and Off healing

Over a 1 million HP parse, madness Sorcs are seeing about 780-820 in self healing which in a operation is a ton. We are nearly self sufficient in keeping ourselves healthy. With our built in healing we also have:

  • Unnatural Preservation – Off GCD generally use at or below 80%
  • Static Barrier – Absorbs around 7-8k as a DPS and is a DCD on the GCD. With no sorc healer in the group bubble tanks when they get low, your healers will love you. This ability is one of my favorite abilities as a DPS sorc. Also the utility heals you for 2% based off of total HP. My Hp is 51k and that is 1131 per tick.
  • Resurgence – Small heal with a HoT. Use on the move or when you can’t be stationary and someone needs some healing.
  • Dark Heal – Medium heal use when healing is looking dim or you are out of range and there is down time.
  • Overload (utility required) – Raid heal for phases where raid is bunched. Amazing on HM Sword Squadron when pull in happens.
  • Corrupted Barrier (utility) – Receive healing on Static Barrier and Force Barrier

Why I enjoy playing a DPS Sorcerer so much is that it has so many things it can use to help healers and the raid. I’m generally raiding without a Sorcerer healer and the bubbles are so helpful.

Spreading Dots

Pestilence – Spreads your CT/Affliction to targets you hit under AFF/CT. Overwhelm: Increases area attacks by 10 seconds for 45 seconds.

This passive is godlike on encounters that have adds. I can only imagine the DPS gain in Phase two of NM Council if this was in the game prior to 3.0. No longer will you have to tab dot targets on top of each other you’ll just be required to use Deathfield.

Of the new operations fights this will shine are

  • Sparky
  • Torque
  • Blaster & Master ( If small droid tanked near big droid)
  • Coratanni (If Pearl tanked near, enrage buff is smaller than DF radius)
  • Malaphar
  • Walkers (targeting droid)
  • Underlurker (DF can hit two adds + boss)
  • Revanite Commanders

Closing Thoughts

The Discipline is fine rotation and viability wise. The damage currently is not competitive enough to warrant its use over Lighting or Telekinetics. When Bioware does get around to addressing the damage concerns the discipline will be amazing in operations.

About the Author

I’m Milas, I’m the best, kidding no really I am the best. I’m the GM of <Zorz>, I like raiding and doing hard content. I was a sorcerer main until 3.0 when I swapped to tanking. I’ve been one of the few or the only sorc/sage that played Madness in progression content at a world pace level ( NM Styrak, and NM Brontes) before it was OP FOTM in 2.8. One day madness sorcs will rise again and you’ll see me in a kill video near you on it. Until then you can found me in the comment section below, @ http://zorzz.enjin.com/ or on twitter @jdotter707.

In closing I’d like to thank Dulfy for hosting my guide.

Special Shutout to Buff/Sarent (sorry) please view this link

http://gyazo.com/1903cc01dfbbc9cbe578ad1eec615996

Shout out to everyone in Zorz for putting up with me on a weekly basis.

  • Sarah Anderson

    Thank you so much for this guide. I’ve been looking forward to a madness guide since a lightning one got posted a few weeks ago!

  • Cory

    What gear are you running with the sample parses you posted? I’m parsing 4.2k consistently on my Madness Sorc with a mix of 186/192/198 (old 4-piece, no new set bonus at all) gear using a similar rotation only I don’t use LS. Pre-3.0 I got better DPS without LS in my rotation but I haven’t bothered to use it in 3.0 so if it is better then I should be able to parse over 4.3k I would imagine. I’m currently running 109.6x% Accuracy, just under 25% Crit Chance (with buff), just over 71% Crit Multiplier, and just over 5% Alacrity. I’m getting most of my Alacrity from augments and at this time, dropping below 5% alacrity in exchange for Power augments nets me a loss in DPS.

    On that note, for those who read this post and start ranting with “Alacrity is useless! Why are you using Alacrity?!?”, it’s time to let go of the past and embrace the changes.

    • Milas

      Mix of 186-192 gear. My sorc is receiving the last of my gear so it doesn’t have much.

      Wish I took a screen cap of the gear at the time of time parse I do remember talking to mikey and he had 60 more bonus damage (1880 – 1940) and the rest was identical.

      In min maxed 198 I’d guess 4,350 is easily obtainable

      • Cory

        I bumped my Crit back down to 81 (20.x% with buff) in exchange for power which put my bonus damage back in the low 1900s. I did 4,311 DPS on HM Sparky and I still have several 186/192 pieces, no new set bonuses, and a 180 earpiece so I’m actually kind of excited about the potential when I am min maxed. I took a Parsec screen shot of the fight but I’m on my work computer right now or I would attach it. If I remember when I get home tonight I will attach it.

        • Xzelsius

          You should parse on operation target not in boss fights. cause in boss fights you get adds (multiple targets)… operation target ist more accurate to see what madness is capable off!

          • Cory

            In the HM Sparky fight I was on boss 100% of the time, other DPS was on adds and due to the mechanics of HM Sparky you have to keep the adds away from the boss. Regardless, I have consistently parsed above 4,200 on a dummy parse but have been unable to get a good non-lag dummy parse in since my new gear changes so I’m certain I’ll be at 4,300 when the lag lets up. It’s definitely not the highest DPS class in the game but the Madness rotation is so stupid easy it’s like cheating to be able to get 4,300 DPS. I could probably read a book while doing the Madness rotation and still hit 4,200+ DPS.

            • Xzelsius

              provide me a combat log from your Sparky HM fight with 4.3k dps.. then i may belive it was single target 😉 otherwise i think you sometimes spreaded your DoTs 😉

              • Cory

                I will take a look tonight and see if it’s still in Parsec. I don’t know if Parsec logs that stuff somewhere or not but if I do find it I will look and report back. If I did spread my DoTs I’d be surprised due to the mechanics of that fight but I’m big enough to admit if I’m wrong so I’ll let you know.

              • Cory

                So I looked at the log and there was 4 times throughout the entire fight that I did spread my DoTs to 1 Add so it may have bumped my DPS a tiny bit but I can’t imagine it was much so it’s whatever. I know I can consistently parse over 4,200 on the ship dummy even with the stupid lag/ability delay and they have supposedly pinpointed the issue with that according to today’s Live Stream so that’s good. Anyway, I’m happy with where I’m at so far and our raid group is clearing new content just fine so I’m not complaining.

  • Foccan

    Thanks for the guide Milas, been waiting for this. Quick question, in your YT video, you seemed to hard cast disturbance a lot and sometimes demolish. Is it because you were missing Wrath stacks due to accuracy?

    • Milas

      Yes if I hard casted a LS or Disturbance it was due to missing and or the ship having lag.

  • luiza

    noob question: I know pre-cast, but what is “hard cast”?

    • Sarah Anderson

      Hard casting in this case is similar to a precast, hard cast general means without an acceleration to make it instant or faster (such as a wrath proc)

  • Another fantastic job! Thanks a lot! 😀

  • Jerry

    Is it worth going madness on underlurker if the self healing is really that good, since the healers couldn’t handle the damage?

    • Archey

      If the other dps can pick up the slack on the boss case Madness’s single target sucks, but if they sit the boss on the adds and you can spread your dots you’re laughing.

      • Milas

        Its possible if the other DPS are playing burst disciplines the faster adds die the less outgoing damage there is. Is win-lose situation.

  • Lostless

    Cheers for the guide!

    I have a more general question: I’ve seen in all the guides that the surge that is needed is different? If the surge hits diminish returns at the same amount then why is it benefiting one class more than the other?

    Also what is the rating for surge at DR?

    • Milas

      As a DPS currently its hard getting over 72%, in the previous tier the DR was 75%.

    • Cory

      I’ve seen people mention 76% as the point where diminishing returns begins but as Milas said it’s hard to get over 72% and that’s mainly due to more Accuracy enhancements needed even at 198 (6 out of 7 possible enhancments) to hit the 110% accuracy mark whereas with 186 gear you only needed 4 (IIRC) so you were able to add more Surge enhancements. 2 Surge augments will get you to 71.x% so I feel like that’s a good place to be. You can always use a Power/Surge enhancement for your 7th enhancement (once you get to 192/198 gear) if you choose to but with the renewed importance of Alacrity in 3.0 you’re going to be trading Power or Willpower (depending on which augments you use) for Alacrity augments anyway so I personally just use a Power/Alacrity enhancement for my 7th enhancement and 2 Surge augments to get to the 71.x% crit multiplier.

      • Lostless

        Thank you. I am also looking to get some alacrity in my gear, but I wanted to know how much surge can I get before DR kicks in. I am almost 73% surge atm, so wanted to know if I should tone it down closer to 72% or not. Sorry am still learning this stuff… since it is my first MMO.

        • Cory

          Welcome to the world of MMOs. We’ve all got to start somewhere. I think surge it going to vary for a lot of people right now as we slowly obtain the new 192/198 gear so I think you’re in a good spot with yours. Just keep in mind down the road that you can sacrifice a little surge if you feel you need a boost in another stat for whatever reason.

        • TheHarbingersKwerty

          late to the party, but to help explain, have a DR Graph I linked in one of the other threads:

          Total Stat contribution at different levels (surge/crit/alacrity)

          http://i.imgur.com/SWFIW2r.jpg

          Stat increase in comparison to original value at different levels (surge/crit/alacrity)

          http://i.imgur.com/IzcyPPw.jpg

          As you can see, Diminising returns hits surge hard, and the half point is at about 300 rating (70% surge)

  • Akumakazama

    Will there be a chart to display how all classes and spec rank against others as far as who has the most dps potential down to the very least.. I am hoping Madness is just weaker of the sorc trees.

    • Lithari

      Well, i play for fun, i am not the min-maxer or elitist type and i hope i can avoid grouping with people like that, cause like it or not, they suck the fun out of the game by treating the game like a second job.

      I wish there was no parsing in the game at all to be honest, people need to get back to playing how they like, instead of like everyone else cause its the best way to play, instead of the fun way to play.

      • Cory

        Most of the “min-maxer” or “elitist” types aren’t that bad. Our raid group fall into those categories but we have fun while we’re raiding. For me I think it’s fun to have a friendly competition with other raid members when it comes to DPS numbers. As long as it’s all done in fun then no harm is done and no one gets pissed. Unfortunately there are the few people in the game that take it to the extreme and make the rest of us look bad.

  • Styrka

    Sorry to be noob but does pestilence automatically apply ct/affliction to all targets hit by deathfield so you only need to put the dots on one target first or does it just refresh the dots if they already have them?

    • Buurn

      Put the DoTs on a single target then hit that target with DF. All targets hit with that DF will get the DoTs as well.

  • Buurn

    Thanks for creating this guide … I HAVE BEEN WAITING SO LONG FOR THIS LOL! In the meantime I have developed a rotation similar to what you have posted. I wanted to share mine with the group here and maybe you could point out any great ideas or bad ideas!

    The roation has 3 parts, the “Opening,” the “DoT Refresh,” and the “Casting Sequnce.”
    The strategy is simple. Start with the Opening, then casting sequence which should get you wrath proc. With 2-3 seconds left on DR CD start the DoT refresh. Then just repeat between DoTs and Casting Sequence, unless fight mechanics force you to start with the opening again.
    Advantages are:
    DR and DF CD’s are in sync
    FL is used pretty much on CD
    2X Shock (with utility buff) compared to single FL

    Opening > Casting Sequence > Dot Refresh > Casting Sequence > Dot Refresh > Repeating.

    Opening:
    Hardcast DR > Offensive CD’s > AF > CT > DF
    Casting Sequence
    Shock > FL > CL (until proc wrath) > Shock
    DoT Refresh
    AF > CT > DR > DF

  • sentientomega

    Does the Empty Body utility affect the healing you get with corrupted barrier? Or does it have to be someone else healing you for empty body to work?

    • Milas

      Someone else healing you

  • Xeromem

    I have noticed that the title of this skill tree has been changed from Madness to Hatred by the time 3.0 went live. This difference may cause some confusion for some players who aren’t aware of this fact.

    • Hatred is assassin, madness is sorc

      • Xeromem

        I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing out my error

  • Tondraris

    What do you think about the good old DoT-management from the more civilized age pre 3.0?
    Is there still a usage in handeling with a delay of demolish, even this annoying more feature of DM eating lightning-burns makes it harder to organize this with the ticks of AF and CT?

  • Yallida

    IMO Madness is no more (again) 🙁 Low dps, crap force management. I hope they do something about it. I’m running in Lightning now i mix 186/192 with first new sets bonus and I’ve never get below 4.4k on dummy and 4.2 on boss fight (stricte single target hits force storm and chain lightning don’t hit adds) so this is a lot difference.
    BW pls fix madness coz I wanna my Death Field back!!!!

    • Cory

      I know Madness isn’t great right now but I’m parsing just under 4.5k consistently now on my Madness Sorc and in Ravagers/ToS I’m beating other guys that are out-parsing me on the dummy right now. I know this is in part thanks to our DoT spread but even in single-target fights Madness Sorcs can out-DPS melee classes that can dummy parse higher. The Madness Sorcs definitely need attention but they’re really not so bad in actual Ops and are still really good in PVP from what I understand (I don’t PVP so I wouldn’t know first hand).

      • Spoon (CoU) @ pot5

        the issue being, in the same gear you can do 400-500 more single target in lightning, with aoe that is comparable in situational usefulness since it is more front loaded than dot spreading. I really hope madness gets a buff because I used to love this spec 😛

        • Cory

          My friend, who plays a Marauder, and myself are constantly competing with each other in dummy parsing. He obviously wins right now but while we’re competing we bounce ideas off each other and after millions of credits spent on all sorts of mods/enhancements/augments and hours upon hours of testing, we’re getting honed in on the appropriate amounts of power/surge/alacrity etc to get the best DPS for our classes. Just an FYI, what works best for Mauraders isn’t necessarily best for Sorcs.

          • Spoon (CoU) @ pot5

            yep clearly, but do you actually parse 4.5k on the 1 mill dummy in madness without raid buffs, and if so can i see an example to learn from it?

            • Cory

              I parse just under 4.5k on the 1.5 mil dummy in madness…not quite 4.5k yet but close. I also DO NOT use the raid buff to get this number unlike the other guys. I haven’t done a 1 mil parse yet but I can’t imagine it being lower especially if I use the raid buff like everyone else seems to do in their parses. If anything, I could only imagine it being higher on a 1 mil parse.

              I have uploaded 1 of my parse logs to the new Parsely leader board that a member of Zorz created and I will post the link below to my parse. My in-game name is Johnny’Karate so that’s the name I use on Parsely and you’ll obviously see that name on the parse log. The site is really new so there there’s only 5 Madness parses that have been uploaded at this time and mine is the only Madness 1.5 mil parse uploaded but I have the highest parse between the 5 Madness parses and I didn’t use my raid buff whereas the other 4 guys did use theirs. When you click the link, you can click the “Rotation” option at the top to see my full rotation and see that I did not use my “Unlimited Power” buff. You may also notice that I don’t use Lightning Strike like a lot of the other guys and guides do. With my rotation, lightning strike is removed and you’ll actually get lower DPS by adding it back in. I’ve thoroughly tested it using my rotation. The removal of this ability also makes the rotation stupid easy as you will see and with the top Madness parse, at this time, it’s hard to say I’m wrong.

              http://swtor-parser.elasticbeanstalk.com/parser/view/935/1

              • Spoon (CoU) @ pot5

                Thanks so much for your reply! That’s very interesting that you don’t use lightning strike at all, I will definitely have to try that and presumably it will also improve the resource use of the spec leaving more open for offheals e.g. on master and blaster? I don’t suppose you could share a screenshot of the kind of gear distribution you’re going for? It really would be fun to be able to use this spec on some of the trash earlier bosses on HM, although even 4500 is far behind lightning, for me at least 🙁

              • Cory

                4500 is behind lightning indeed but it holds up very well in Operations against other classes due to our new DoT spread. My friend with the Marauder can out-DPS me on the dummy but he still can’t beat me in 90% of the bosses in both of the new Operations.

                I will try to remember when I get home tonight to see what I can do about getting a screenshot regarding the gear.

              • Spoon (CoU) @ pot5

                thanks about the gear :).. Idk if I could ever see madness doing more dps than lightning because i’m pretty sure lightning AoE is better as well as single target, especially since it is more upfront… I’ve done 6500+ on HM torque on sorc because of it lol, but I think it could be great on fights or in groups such that the dtps is the limiting factor in killing the boss 🙂

              • Cory

                So I obviously didn’t get the screenshot last night. For some reason, I only get on the forum here while I’m at work. LOL.

                I can give you a breakdown here of what I’ve got gear-wise with some rough numbers on the totals though. If I miss something, just ask me and I’ll get it for you.

                Accuracy >>> 109.xx% (It’s above 109.5)
                Crit Chance >>> 20.xx%
                Crit Multiplier >>> 70.xx% (this may be over 71% now but it’s between 70 and 72)
                Alacrity >>> 7.00% (this is 7% exactly)

                Armorings/Hilt >>> I have the old 180 4-piece set bonus with the new 192 2-piece set bonus. I have a 192 mainhand and 198 offhand.

                Mods > ALL Willpower/Power (I have 6 of the 192 (37) and 3 of the 198) – if you can’t get the 37 from OPs you can use the 37A from comms vendors in the meantime. Also note that the 192(37) from OPs is slightly better than the 198 comms gear.

                Enhancements > ALL 198 – 4x Accuracy/Power, 1x Surge/Power, 1x Accuracy/Crit, 1x Alacrity/Power

                NOTE: I went with 1x Surge/Power and 4x Accuracy/Power instead of just 5x Accuracy/Power because there is no 192 Surge earpiece from the token vendors so I went with the Accuracy earpiece and replaced one Accuracy enhancement with a Surge enhancement to make up the difference.

                Augments > I have either 7 or 8 Alacrity augments (whatever is takes to get to 7% with the 1 198 alacrity enhancement), I have 1 or 2 Surge augments and the rest are Overkill (power) augments.

                Earpiece > 192 Accuracy (from OPs)

                Implants > both 198 Power/Surge (from OPs)

                Relics > Both 192 (from OPs) – 1x Serendipitous Assault and 1x Focused Retribution

                I think I got it all. I did it all from memory so I may have missed something but like I said, just ask me if you need clarification on something.

              • Spoon (CoU) @ pot5

                cool ty, you seem to have a lot of alac lol.

              • Cory

                Indeed. Alacrity has a renewed importance for DPS now. I’ve spent many hours dummy testing Alacrity at various levels between 0% and 9% and where I’m at now seems to be the sweet spot between Alacrity and the Power (or Willpower depending on your normal preferred augments) that you have to sacrifice. Obviously when you have lower level gear with slightly lower values, you’ll have less than 7% to get that proper mix of power and alacrity to give you the best DPS but as your gear gets better you’ll want to keep testing your alacrity/power combo to see if you’re still at the point where you’ll get the best DPS. I imagine when my gear is fully min/max that I will probably have slightly more than the flat 7% alacrity that I have now but I’ll have to test that when the time comes.

              • Hello ! Do you playing in more in swtor ?

              • Azimez

                Dude, tell me please, how can you get 109.5 accu, 70% surge and 7% alacrity. And got still 6 power augments. THank you 🙂

  • Spoon (CoU) @ pot5

    I’m not sure about the high alacrity gear for this spec guys. This one was with 1 piece alac, in very mixed gear and without the old set bonus (new 4 piece).

    • Hello ! Can we talk about your gear, stats etc I just wanna know how do you made this dmg. I have many questions. Maybe on emails ?

    • Fuzzy

      I also would very much like to know.

  • Max de Sutter

    Although i understand some of it but tis guide seems to be writen for ppl who already know the spec quite a bit and played it pre 3.0people who just started playing wil have more trouble with this guide

  • Voth

    One question concerning gearing issues, you’re saying we need to Aim for around 70% surge, which is 3 sophistications at least, and your tests are done with 300+ alacrity.

    That’s a whole 6 Soph/implants/ear , with only 10 avaliable and 6 or 7 required for accuracy.

    What should be aimed then ? 2 alac – 1/2 surge ? Forget about surge ? Forget about alacrity ? Since we use will or power augments, getting some here is impossible as well.

  • Nyxato

    So lightning is the better spec for PvE, it took you about 30 seconds more than the lightning guide Ive found from someone in the same guild as you to kill the operation dummy. Nevertheless great guide, but I suppose this means I’ll be sticking to lightning here on out 🙂

  • Yallida

    BTW anyone try to make parse in this spec with high amount of crit like in IO merc?
    I mean crit arround 300-400 points and alacrity near 300 points?

    • Azimez

      i tried : 80 – 480 and i got best results with 240 crit rate. It can be different, with different rates of other stats. Dont have enough enhacements to check this out.

  • Paint

    Hey guys, i’ve got a question about the speed, how many du you have in % .

    In the vid he is 1/10 faster.

    Where is the perfect value?

  • Jamie Kirby

    The problem with mmos and specs and their dps viability, its all based on if the elitists say its good enough or not, it could be 1% lower then what they deem as acceptable and its immediately rejected….i tend to never take them seriously.

  • Krause Christoph

    mhhh i play with 450 crit and 480 Surge, Crit Relict and the Speed Relict and i parse 4.5-4.6

    • Fuzzy

      which one is the speed relic? and do you mean the ones with 30% chance or the use ones? I really would like to know more, such as gear, and how much power ect.

    • guest

      Imagine how much better you’d be if you’d use proper gear!

      • Fuzzy

        no such thing as “proper” gear, if he used the gear in this guide he would just be parsing at the same numbers. so if he is doing better, than he is doing something right.

  • Jamie Pinson

    Very nice. Thank you. I remember watching an old youtube video of yours on how to clip FL properly. I thought I recognized that hat you were wearing. 😀 TY for the guide.

  • Catalin Stoian

    I’m a noobie so I wanted to ask (maybe it sounds dummy) how do you bubble people for skills like Static Barrier?

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