Categories
SWTOR SWTOR News

SWTOR Update on Ravagers Exploit

Bioware published an update on the Ravagers exploit, promising actions before end of next week.

Ravagers Exploit Action Update | 01.13.2015, 03:56 PM

Hey folks,Let’s talk a bit about the Ravager’s exploit. There are two stages to the process of removing an exploit and handling actions for players who participated. Stage 1 – fix the issue and ensure players can no longer partake in the exploit. That change is out as of today in patch 3.0.2.

Stage 2 – With the exploit removed, we can work towards finalizing our data review and assigning appropriate actions. We have a lot of information! We know who used it, who they invited, how many times they exploited, when they participated, credits gained, and whether they gained a crafting pattern from reverse-engineering. We are still reviewing the data and determining the appropriate action for those who took undue advantage of the exploit. We won’t be taking action today, but we’ll wrap it up in the next week or so.

On the plus side, most players didn’t partake in the exploit at all allowing us to focus on the few who did. It may seem silly to thank you for not using an exploit, but we really appreciate you taking the time to raise our awareness of the issue through a variety of channels. It demonstrates your commitment to the game and to keeping the game fun, and fair for everyone. So thank you for not using the exploit.

-eric

By Dulfy

MMO guide writer and blogger. Currently playing and covering SWTOR, GW2, and TSW.

946 replies on “SWTOR Update on Ravagers Exploit”

And i hope the actions taken will be severe enough to discourage others in the future from using an exploit.

You got the right direction, Devs;)

Took them long enough. They should have acted like that while Nefra exploit was going around for months. Now they finally show that exploiting is not fair.

I haven’t seen heard of any Wow Exploits like this one and the Nefra one. And if there was, it would be hotfixed, instead of going on vacation, then fix it 2 weeks after they are back. Slackers

WoW exploits like these actually existed AND weren’t always fixed asap. Blizz likes to “collect data” and just ban/suspend offenders in batches.

Did blizzard release their expansion, with a exploid that was reported on pts, then go on vacation? Oh nope, that was only In swtor!

From the top of my head? At wotlk release for about a month Heigan’s encounter in Naxx had an exploitable safespot which defeated the whole “dancing” feature of said encounter.

And how many years ago was that?
There have been other small ones though – like being able to take spell steal buffs and use them against the troll guy in MSV (forget his name) but that was squashed immediately after it was reported.
I think the entire point is that you don’t leave something like this up for weeks. Imagine what would have happened if 25m heroic LK had been left like this for 4-5 weeks, then blizzard came back and took action.
I myself haven’t even done any hm’s past the first boss in each instance, nor have I had any interest in getting potentially banned, but I can honestly see where the appeal of it came from considering the 3.0 early access/launch issues people have had. I do find it funny though, they have data for this and bans, but not for that whole super expensive/double purchase skill issue early access people dealt with. People taking shortcuts doesn’t affect me; that did.

No argument here that it should have been fixed faster, but there have been WoW exploits more severe than this before.

Did blizzard know about those WOW exploits for over 6 weeks and do nothing about them and then finally fix the issue and ban everyone that used them? doubtful.

I know you did..
my point was did Blizzard know of these ‘exploits’ (that only you know about and havent named) that are worse than all of SWTORS and just leave them in place for a long ass time? Doubtful.

There I rewrote my post so you could better understand. Your welcome.

i know you did but i said its doubtful,
sure WOW has had its share of exploits over the years but i doubt blizzard went off on holiday and left the exploited boss bug loot crap for over a month then came back with a big ban hammer.. see you said its had more severe i say meh doubt it

And i said did blizzard knowabiuy those exploits for over 6 weeks…doubtful
are we just copy/pasting old coments now?

Such scary threats and yet we all know BW will take no real action because the end game is mostly filled with subs that BW cant lose, and if for some reason they would take moral high ground then the end game would be pretty much dead because bugs cant manage to run the new opses and the people that were able got banned….BW only real option is to man up and admit that they really should of tested the game more and not release it before 2 week holiday.

This is not a troll post but a serious question:
What’s the difference between this and, say, someone who did the nefra glitch?
Is it because you still had to burn the 5 million health on Nefra, as opposed to just looting a crate?

The Nefra glitch was exceedingly smaller in scope. Nearly all casual raid groups could down her legitimately as well. Only one group has killed Coratanni, not to mention that she’s the final boss with a final bosses’ loot table.

I hope each and everyone of the developers die. They need to blame their in house people for the bugs. Not take it out on us. This is bullshit. If I had a panel van i’d drive it to their office and blow it up! Fuck them all they can all die. It isn’t our fault they can’t do their damn jobs and make sure things are ready to be put live. Bunch of lazy ass fat fucks not reporting shit and the in house people not making sure the shit is ready to go live cause they want to push the shit out the door to make more money. Fuck them all I’ll beat the shit out each and every dev, put their spouses on fire the dog in the oven the cats in the microwave and make their kids watch. Punish the right people not the people that pay to play the game. To hell with them all!

No just not finding their bullshit funny. they sound like the husband who’s wife is cheating on him and goes to work and takes it out on everyone under him. Bitch boys is what they are.

No I didn’t do the exploit myself. I wasn’t one of the asanine people who did an op that wasn’t ready to go live stream just to bitch about it and ohh look they fixed the shit today. I laugh at the idiots who been wiping and paying repair bills that have. My point is they want to point blame on use when they should be pointing blame in house and punishing those in house with pink slips.. Punish the people that failed the game.

Wow, you sound like that one group of people known as fanatical/radical muslims! Man, I hope some sort of anti-terrorist or federal agency sees this.

No I didn’t do the exploit myself. I wasn’t one of the asanine people who did an op that wasn’t ready to go live stream just to bitch about it and ohh look they fixed the shit today. I laugh at the idiots who been wiping and paying repair bills that have. My point is they want to point blame on use when they should be pointing blame in house and punishing those in house with pink slips!

I spy something BIG! oh there it is a exploiter ! HAHA lol its so funny that people take advantage of exploits like this u know it will come back to bite u in the ass lol so why get involved in the first place ? just be like me or most of the population and play at a fair advantage. makes no since to cheat remember cheaters NEVER prosper

No I didn’t do the exploit myself. I wasn’t one of the asanine people who did an op that wasn’t ready to go live stream just to bitch about it and ohh look they fixed the shit today. I laugh at the idiots who been wiping and paying repair bills that have. My point is they want to point blame on use when they should be pointing blame in house and punishing those in house with pink slips.

This troll is probably F2P and only logs in occasionally to masturbate to the view from behind his Twi’lek decked out in exotic dancer gear.

Lol. What a great person you are. Threatening to blow up and beat the developers. I thought that banning the cheaters would be harsh but after seeing you rant I hope you do get banned. Lol! What a childish a-hole,

… I think some people need to look up the definition of “exploit”. Get real.
Breaking the game was their fault, taking advantage of it was your fault. End of story.

Bioware has huge culpability in this. I know I unintended exploits are inevitable, but they sucked a lot of people into this well known and public exploit by leaving it go for so long. A immediate emergency fix was needed WEEKS EARLIER. And I don’t buy Eric’s BS “only a dew did this”. I’d say a third of the level 60’s I saw on the fleet at times had set bonus 198 chest pieces on, complemented by a bunch of garbage gear. A few my ass.

So 75% of the players didn’t use this exploit? The game is not going to immediately die while victorious exploiters crow atop its corpse? Whew, that’s a relief.

LMAO…what a load of pish..they will wrap it up in the next week or 2 (or when people forget all about it and we can sweep this whole mess under the carpet shhh)

I wonder how players got to know about the exploit, because from what I know, it´s a very specific set of steps in order for the exploit to work. Isnt someone just leaking the stuff, BW? 😛 It seemed like a very very intended exploit to me, that just got outta hands because of 3 weeks with no fix, so why not join the party?
Would be something to see BW kicking people for using it, and not addressing the issue of some players who wont stop bashing others, for ex, on pvp wzs. Or the spam in mail in game. Not to mention the lots of bugs and the whole week of undying Revan… just because BW didnt want to delay the launch and test stuff properly.
I´d call it even, BW.

The few who knew about the exploit in the beginning spread it because it didn’t get fixed and because exploiters in the past (Nefra) didn’t get any punishment anyway.

I’m fairly sure the punishment for 99% of the exploiters will be removal of gear+credits+schematics earned from exploiting and possibly a short duration ban.

Can Bioware step up and provide us a SLA on bug fixes. I could careless the speed of them addressing folks exploiting gear. When will you address the PVP hacks, latency issues, and etc. Please step up or this game will die.

Ditto.

You get the feeling that most people don’t even care.

This was one of about a dozen issues that launched with 3.0.

More people are upset about the state 3.0 launched in and want solutions to those problems than people want to see any sort of punishment doled out.

In other words they’re waiting for people to forget that it happened.

Basically what will happen is that enough time will pass to the point that when asked about this a month from now on a livestream or at a Cantina Tour they’ll say “We took appropriate action(s) against players that used the exploit.” but of course you’ll have no way of knowing what happened unless they Bioware announces the punishment to the public, which is unlikely, or you hear about a large number of bans/suspensions, which also seems unlikely.

did it once only bcs in the first week i didnt get loot from it and no response on ticket (even with “we know about it, we proceed it and we will take some actions”).

tbh if i get banned, i’d have more time on cs:go.. only think i dont like about getting banned is the amount of money i’ve spend (CC, subs, dlcs)

Wait so they’re going to spend time, resources, and who knows how many man hours to dig through a bunch of data instead of devoting time to fixing still broken content or generating new content?

What is the gain in this situation? Ok you punish players who exploited the system. Great, but of all the things on the totem pole of priorities with SWTOR this is at the top?

It just seems like they’ve gotten to the point where they don’t realize what players want or expect out of this game.

That’s even worse because that means the devs don’t have to bother with stuff like that and should as a result have more time to fix other problems.

TWO MONTHS LATER?

The Ravangers thing has existed for two months now going by the PTS. How is that acceptable? What have the been doing all this time?

Why wasn’t this fixed in the last patch when the fixed Revan and Jungle’s Bounty?

What about when players spent millions of credits buying skills the first week of SoR only for the skills to become free a week later? How did BW make up for that?

If you don’t think it’s acceptable then stop paying Bioware and play/do something else.

Whatever you think is wrong with the game doesn’t entitle you to use exploits.

I didn’t say that it was justifiable as a result of the exploit but rather why are you cherry picking?

Why is it that you can provide an argument against the exploit but not against the Skills Training problem or anything else for that matter? Why is it just this one thing. Same question goes to BW too. Why is it THIS specific thing that they’re suddenly going to be all over?

What I’m saying is that regardless of your opinion on the exploit that the situation doesn’t make any sense. You can’t explain what’s going on and it seems BW just flat out won’t.

The argument exploit is covered by the Rules of Conduct, which you accepted upon creating your account.

I don’t need to provide an argument for skill training problem or anything else, as a player you can either accept those issues or play a different game.

I don’t need to provide arguments again skill training problem or anything else. If you cannot accept that the game has issues and those issues take time to fix, play something else.

I don’t need to provide arguments against Skill Training problem or anything. It’s simple: If you cannot accept the way Bioware are handling things, stop playing the game and play/do something else.

So they can figure this out but they can’t figure out achievements that we’ve already earned and they accidentally didn’t count? Not buying it, I wonder if they are just going off the reports people sent in?

I guess we will find out next week. I will be completely surprised if it is more then 24 to 48 hours in the corner. Maybe double secret probation. :p

I doubt they’re going to brutally punish anyone. It’s enough to make an example of the worst offenders, give them a “time out” and take away their ill-gotten gains.

You might be surprised at how much data they can pull. I know things have changed a lot since EQ, but even then they could, if they wished, reconstruct literally every event in your character’s entire history (assuming the data wasn’t corrupted or lost). I know this firsthand. I also know the tools have improved considerably since then. Whatever a player may think, they can’t hide anything they do in the Matrix.

I think (and hope) the people who transferred servers to spread the HM locks for the HM version of the exploit will be permabanned.

Fudge I did not realize people were using transfers to spread this. That goes a step above the norm I’d say.

-Sarigar, Agreed in EQ/II they handled the logs fine and could fix issues on the fly. I just don’t see that in this game I don’t know if it’s the way the engine works or a skill or manpower issue. Out of all the times I have put in requests with support they have been unable to retrieve a single mail/item/achievement I see stuff in here as gone and don’t bother anymore.

That’s simply a case of them not doing it, which I continue to be unhappy about. When this game launched, it had very responsive, helpful Customer Service; now, a form letter is all you’ll get for anything but the most severe issues. They CAN do it, even if they don’t do it, and I have no explanation for why they have let their CS lapse as much as it has other than simply not having the people to handle all the requests. It’s even more unfortunate that the only time we get a glimpse of the true breadth and depth of their information-retrieval abilities, and their ability to intervene, is when they are compelled to address a serious problem.

1800CC is under 20 dollars. 20 dollars won’t get you far in terms of paying employees to find out who used the HM exploit on the server they transferred to.

I was using this exploit alot, didnt get any profit of it (all tokens, mats, gear are untoucheble). I was using it simply because I was tired of BW irresponsible attitude to their game. And I would be glad if they ban me, cause this will show, that they have some balls.

Lol i love how everyone overlooks the fact that they admit that they have a ridiculous amount of information about everyone’s accounts. I have countless guildies that have had things happen to items and never get resolved. As well as the refund of players money due to training when 3.0 hit. They should easily be able to refund each and every character that did this before they made it free. Who cares about exploiters. How about some genuine Customer Service?

support stopped helping me over a year ago with recovering items that “disappeared”….why start using the data now?

Just remember. U can come join us in WoW when u get banned. WoW has better mechanics actually! And they hot fix their big bugs. They dont leave exploits open for weeks to tease u.

Oh bioware.. the bug/exploit was your fault had been there for nearly 7 weeks.. and u expect to punish players for your laziness and your short comings.. hell the people who beat it legit half of them couldn’t even loot cause were immediately teleported back to instance start with no warning.. or booted out of the instance completely.. i think.. Bioware that u should focus on fixing a broken game then pandering over who used an EXPLOIT that at the end of the day its your fucking fault bioware.. do the right amount of public testing and hey u know what u wont run into this shit.. Fuckin grow up bioware and Act like a man admit you’re in the wrong here.. Not the players.

No, they expect to punish players because said players didn’t play according to the Rules of Conduct they accepted when they made their account.

they should think of that whey they are testing , or in this case i should say Not testing.. their products before release

They should, but that still doesn’t allow players to disregard the Rules of Conduct whenever they think Bioware isn’t doing their part.
Players are free to play something else if they don’t like how Bioware handles their business.

why not? bioware and EA disregard any rules once they have our money.. they should man the fuck up fix their product instead of wallow around for damn near 2 months before addressing LARGE known issues.. i mean 3.0 has essentially been broken in many ways since its launch dec 2 its now jan 13 and they are only addressing a small handful of the known issues… yes they are doing their job very well..

Which rules are they disregarding?
You pay and you have access to the game in return. That you think the game is broken is your own problem, you can just stop subbing.
I agree 3.0 has been bad so far, but that still doesn’t allow any players to disregard the Rules of Conduct.

honestly ive done all the content.. dont really care what they do at this point they can take their ball and go home for all i care.. if any punishment is impending ill simply unsub before they charge me again and tell my bank to block all incoming charges from them.. and maybe just maybe come back in the future when and if the game survives that long

I know that. I’m referring to #youknowit saying “why not? bioware and EA disregard any rules once they have our money.. ”
I don’t see which rules Bioware and EA are disregarding “once they have our money”.

And to prove the point that u’re a complet idiot, it doesn’t even violate the TOS, it actually violates the GAME POLICIES, retard… Did u actually bothered to READ either of them or are u just using high word which u clearly cant understand?????

It’s not “their problem” dummy. You’re acting like the game not working is their opinion.

If you pay a monthly fee for something like cable, Netflix, etc, their is an expectation and a standard put forward by the provider. When something goes wrong with that service you can call them and get it resolved.

This is a case where the service provider isn’t holding up their end of the deal nor are they addressing things in a timely manner.

It is their opinion because the game is working. The servers are up, people are able to get to level 60, do the new raids, flashpoints and so on.

That’s not the say the game doesn’t have issues because it does have severe issues, but the game is working.

Okay so are we at the point now where these type of problems are to be expected? Is that what you’re saying? Because by that logic the exploiting should be expected too.

Except bugs and problems with big software products? Sure.

Just because exploiting is to be expected doesn’t make it ok.

I’m not saying that it does but you, others, and Bioware are acting like this exploit is far beyond the “norm” of the game.

NOBODY has been able to explain as of yet why this specific exploit is getting so much attention. Why after all these years is this the thing that people are drawing the line in the sand over. I would say that it’s because it’s so publicly/well known, but then again I’m sure just as many people if not more know about the cheating that goes on during PVP

The reason this particular exploit is getting so much attention is because the community wanted attention. The outcries on Reddit, official forums, streamers on Twitch etc. were much louder this time than previously.

It’s also been a snowball effect of “well they didn’t do anything about Nefra so they probably won’t do anything now” that made a lot more players exploit this time than with Nefra. Mind you, this is only a gut feeling, I don’t know if the amount of Ravagers exploiters is higher than the amount of Nefra exploiters.

The new exploit is also a lot faster to execute, meaning an exploiter can do it in one evening on as many toons as (s)he bothers. Nefra usually took half an hour per run.
The exploit didn’t have any actual playing/killing mobs attached to it, it was just go in, loot, get out, relog and repeat.

Those factors set up above any previous exploit to date.

The reason this particular exploit is getting so much attention is because the community wanted attention. The outcries on Reddit, official forums, streamers on Twitch etc. were much louder this time than previously.

It’s also been a snowball effect of “well they didn’t do anything about Nefra so they probably won’t do anything now” that made a lot more players exploit this time than with Nefra. Mind you, this is only a gut feeling, I don’t know if the amount of Ravagers exploiters is higher than the amount of Nefra exploiters.

The new exploit is also a lot faster to execute, meaning an exploiter can do it in one evening on as many toons as (s)he bothers. Nefra usually took half an hour per run.
The exploit didn’t have any actual playing/killing mobs attached to it, it was just go in, loot, get out, relog and repeat.

Those factors set this exploit above any previous exploit to date.

But the game is working. You can log in, you can complete missions, get to lvl 60 and do PvP/Ops/FPs. The game has issues, but that’s not the same as the “game is not working”.

“you can call them and get it resolved” is not at all comparable to exploiting.

What was the excuse when people couldn’t solo the Revan fight or do 16 man Ravangers? How was it working then? You couldn’t complete things notably the final mission to the new storyline.

The fact that it’s all fixed now does not make it okay, because this type of stuff is going to keep happening.

This is a growing problem with video games in general not just SWTOR. Just look at everything that’s happened in the last year with Battlefield 4, The Sims 4, Assassins Creed Unity, The Master Chief Collection, Drive Club, etc, etc.

Broken doesn’t mean completely unplayable. There’s already a description for that genius it’s called unplayable.

You’re acting like the term is literal, ie some literally broke the game disc in half and therefore it is broken and that’s the only possible way it can be broken.

That’s funny coming from the guy that was being nitpicky, ie “oh no it’s technically this” “That’s not broken. Broken is this, this, and this little nitpicky things.”

Yeah, that’s not what I said at all.

Furthermore, the Terms of Service clearly state you accept the game “as is”, so even if some of the content is broken, unplayable or whatever term you feel like using, it’s within their right.

Yeah, that’s not what I said though but whatever flows your boat.

The end result is still that exploiters broke the RoC (and thus the ToS) and Bioware didn’t break any rules despite #youknowit saying so.

Nope, just stating the facts rather than speaking in flat out lies and complete hyperbole like you.

Except I’ve not made a single lie in here. On the oither hand you’ve lied (if you’re the same Guest as 4-5 posts above, “You couldn’t complete things notably the final mission to the new storyline.”), as the Revan fight was soloable. I soloed it on the first night of Early Access, I soloed it on an alt about a week after.
Was it buggy? Oh yes it was. Was it soloable? yep.

That is still not a broken game, or something that allows you to disregard the Rules of Conduct. If you don’t like the state of the game, stop paying and play something else.

How is not being able to complete the story in a game (that has a story that is intended to be completed) not broken?

If they ban all the players who used exploit,the fixing of lag was useless 🙁
TBH:I stoll don’t know what is the exploit about, only did Ravagers 2 times and in the second I died before boss so no loot no comm,ty BW

LOL, most players did not partake…. Most players are not subscribers. Most players did not pay for the expansion in advanced to get screwed by BioWare on paying for training skills while leveling to have it change to being free to others later. Most players were not impacted with the amount of bugs that prevented them from completing content within the game in 8-man or 16-man. Where is your announcement that these are fixed?

PVP hacks are still running wild. When will this even be addressed.

Man up a bit and see your failures in coding, Q&A, and customer communication are the foundation of the issues in the game. Continue to starve your gaming community with your inability to provide good service, be prepared for them to harvest the marrow from your bones every chance they get.

TRY THIS…
Increase your functional code on all fronts and the “exploits” will decline.

AND IMAGE THIS..

Your gaming community will grow in subscribers and not just Free to Play.

May the Force be with you, because having the ability to write Game Code is not….

Only crime here is….blizz taking our money for an expansion which had a HUGE exploit that was already reported on PTS… Then go on vacation! Now you want to pusnish folks? C’mon. Owe us an apology, really!

Just because someone leaves the door to their house open doesn’t mean it’s ok for you to walk in aND rob them.

Breaking into to someone’s home is a crime. Exploiting a bug in a video game is not a crime moron.

Actually it is because exploiting is a violation of the TOS which is a legal contract which the exploiters broke and braking a contract can result in legal action.

Then just provide a single example of where an MMO has taken legal action against someone violating the TOS and you’ll be right.

While that is awesome it’s an example of a company going after another company, not a person.

Where is the example of an MMO taking legal action against an individual or individual(s) who were separate buy per took in the same thing like this exploit because I don’t believe you could provide me with an example of that.

They did buy the game it’s how they created and tested the bot thus they violated the TOS.

So like I said you can’t actually provide an example of an instance where an MMO went after a single person or a group of separate individuals for violating the TOS.

Know why you can’t? Because it’s not worth it for the company to do so. They can’t get 7 million dollars out of some random John Doe. That’s why an individual doesn’t fear any sort of legal action from violating TOS.

Aren’t there numerous gold sites out there that are in serious violation of stuff like the TOS? How come they don’t get shut down. They’re much bigger than a single individual.

Because the gold sellers are in China which wouldn’t help them enforce the lawsuit so they don’t bother.

Nope, there are numerous US based websites, with US based accounts for games like SWTOR, Wildstar, WoW, and basically any other MMO you can think of that you can on to not only buy credits, buy items, people to level your character and various other things on.

You can simply type “SWTOR credits” into Google and find a number of sites right away that have nothing to do with China. These aren’t sites run by other countries where the law differs. They’re US registered websites, with people who live in the US and play on the US servers.

So now what’s your excuse? Because it’s not just China.

The truth is that you can’t explain it to me because you don’t have the answer to it. You literally give an answer for everything even when it doesn’t make sense to respond and often times post things that aren’t true or can easily disproven as I just showed you.

Just because the sites are hosted in the US doesn’t mean the players farming them are in the US so no you haven’t disproved anything you just stated that sites are hosted here which means next to nothing if it’s being funneled overseas.

Except I know people who play every MMO under the sun and use the sites.

Sometimes the people will just mail you the credits/items but other times it’s “face to face” with players who are based out the US. You can see their name(s) on the paypal account that money is being transferred to and easily find out where they reside in a number of cases whether it’s due to something like Facebook or finding some other record online.

So like I’ve been saying this entire time, there are numerous individuals in the US that do it with no legal penalty, and the reason that is because like I said before, EA, Activision, or whoever isn’t going to after individuals because it’s never worth it.

You were completely and utterly wrong, which is fine. I don’t know why you believe that you always have to be right about everything or that it’s impossible for you to be wrong.

Except for the fact you don’t know how funneling money works because in the end that money ends up in China all the other stuff are just front and middle men in order to make you believe that it’s in the US because players are more likely to trust a US based service even though it’s not.

You are a fucking psychopath. Multiple have pointed out that you can never just leave well enough alone, admit that you’re wrong, feel the need to have the last word, that you just post for the sake of posting, and numerous other negative things.

What is it that you think that you’re doing or accomplishing exactly? Who else do you think is reading this besides you and me? What is to be won or gained? Why do you constantly feel the need to constantly argue, make stuff up, twist things, and whatever else?

Nobody is looking at you or reading what you’re saying and coming away with a positive outlook on you. You come across as a Hitler extremest as opposed to someone trying to do any sort of good.

All I have been doing is pointing out the reality of things whether you accept them or not is so concern of mine as often people prefer to live in ignorance rather than accepting the truth because it’s easier and also by invoking Hitler you have lost this argument.

No, you haven’t been pointing out the reality of things. You constantly lie and pass your opinions off as fact.

You keep inferring that they’re going to perma ban everyone who’s used the exploit, but everybody knows that’s not going to happen. Anyone with any common sense or that knows the history of SWTOR knows that they’re just going to give out a bunch of suspensions while possibly banning a small number of players, if even that.

You just don’t want to accept that’s^ how it’s going to be because it doesn’t line up with what you want or want to believe.

There is no argument to be won here. How can you not see that? What happens if I’m right? NOTHING. What happens if you’re right? NOTHING. There is nothing to win or lose here. You and I are the only ones paying attention to our back and fourth and regardless of what BW does with the game the world is going to keep on going. It ultimately does not matter. The fact that you care so much about this is beyond ridiculous.

Answer me this. What are you going to do if they don’t do exactly what you want them to or believe that they will? Again, NOTHING. You’re not going to quit the game, you’re not going to admit that you were wrong, or do anything of significance. You’ll either stop posting or constantly try to defend yourself to a bunch of posts saying stuff like “HAHA nothing happned!” or “What’s up now Shaun? I did this exploit 100 times and I didn’t even get suspended.” What’s even worse is how much you care about stuff like that when you shouldn’t.

Well considering I have inside sources that say otherwise while I don’t think they will permaban a person if they did it 1 time but they will permaban those who used every character they could to exploit it also those who jumped servers to sell the access and many more and if they don’t do it then they will just end up being made fools of by the media for saying one thing and doing another and they won’t be trusted to handle another MMO again also if they had intended to just sweep this under the rug they wouldn’t have said anything past the 1st post.

First off you don’t have inside sources and even if you did they wouldn’t tell you. It’s not the type of information they would just openly share with you.

Second they’re not going to perma ban the people who did it more than once either. Those who server hoped, sure, but not those who just alt hoped. There will be a multi tiered level of punishment. The people who server hoped and sold the ability to run it will be considered the worst offenders and they will be the ones who get perma banned. A step down from that you’ll have the people that sold it. A step down from that you’ll have the people who were openly asking for it. A step down from that is the people who ran it on multiple toons, and so on.

Basically what will happen is that each tier will have a different punishment. Perma ban, 1 month suspension, 2 week suspension, 1 week, and 3 days. That’s how it has always worked, and not just in SWTOR, but it’s also how SWTOR deals with it as well.

Third – THE MEDIA DOES NOT AND WILL NOT CARE. Websites like IGN, Gamespot, Polygon, Kotaku, GameTrailers, Giant Bomb, etc, etc, don’t really care about or report on MMOs after they’re out especially not to the degree they did prior to it’s release. None of those sites I just listed are going to report on this incident no matter which direction it goes, because it’s so common place for MMOs that it doesn’t make a good news story, not to mention if X person is interested in X MMO to begin with they’re most likely not going to click on the article to begin with.

Fourth – ANOTHER MMO? ARE YOU SERIOUS? EA is not going to put out another MMO, especially not a traditional one of this size. MMOs that are akin to WoW, SWTOR, ESO, Wildstar, etc, in terms of size and scope are a thing of the past. They take nearly 5 years to develop, are super costly, and in the end generally aren’t worth it. The MMO market isn’t as big as a lot of the companies thought it was. There aren’t nearly the amount of MMOs in production now as there was 5 years ago. More and more companies are doing MOBAs now but even those will fade before another game type becomes the thing that everybody is making.

EA is constantly screwing things up with games, most notably Battlefield 4, The Sims 4, and Sim City, but are they going to stop making those games or games of those types? No. “Trust” isn’t a factor when it comes to EA. It’s laughable that you’d even suggest such a thing.

Finally, I never said it’s going to be swept under the rug. Suspensions aren’t it being swept under the rug. You think it’s go big or go home, ie either ban everybody or it doesn’t count, but that’s not the case. In the grand scheme of things it ultimately does not matter. It’s not going to effect your life or mine. In the end a dozen or so people will get perma banned and it might effect their lives but that’s it and even then, that really isn’t all that big a deal.

Plenty of people are willing to talk about certain things so long as it’s off the record or done in a manner that you can’t prove one way or another but besides that plenty of sites report on MMOS after the fact it just takes a big enough story to do so like a ban leading to a major population drop or the exploiters retaliation via DDoS attacks and what I mean by not trusted with another MMO I mean Bioware as EA could clearly hand off the next MMO to one of the other companies they own.

Alright, come next week lets see how many of those websites I listed will report on this story. I mean there’s no way they can’t right given how you’re saying they’re going to perma ban everyone.

As for Bioware and another MMO, are you serious? Bioware will never want to do another MMO at this point. Not to mention like I said earlier nobody wants to make traditional MMOs anymore, they’re a thing of the past. You’re not really going to see them going forward. You’ll start seeing more things like Phantasy Star Online and Marvel Heroes in terms of size, scope, and players. Games that are more Online RPGs than MMOs, which exactly what Bioware Austin is doing with Shadow Realms.

There is already talks of a 2nd Star Wars MMO to go along with the new movies and since EA controls the rights to making Star Wars games only they can do it.

No, there was a BS Reddit post about a SWTOR2 and there’s currently a Star Wars Rebels “MMO” in development which is a follow up to The Clone Wars Adventures. A lot of the same people that wokred on CWA are currently working on it. I say “MMO” because it’s going to be another browser based game like Clone Wars Adventures.

Like I keep trying to tell you, what people generally consider to be an MMO is basically going away. You’re not going to see a new SW MMO that’s anywhere near the scope and scale of a traditional MMO. If something like that was in production it means it wouldn’t be ready until after Episode 8 is out. That’s a 5 year dev cycle at a budget of at least 100 million. There’s no reason to make games like that anymore for numerous reasons. It’s cheaper, faster, and more profitable now to do things like The Clone Wars Adventures or Marvel Heroes now days and going forward.

If any kind of online game would be coming out based on the new movies it’s not going to be some large scale MMO, it would be something much much smaller.

your comparison is….well it doesn’t compare lol. try again. your not actually taking anything from another person.
This is more like… you find $20 bucks on the ground, should u pick it up?

Too which crime are you referring too? The crime that the 16-man mode Ravagers was broken on the 2nd boss where you had to switch to 8-man to do and covert back to 16-man to complete OP?
or
8-man Mode where the final boss did not drop loot
or
The fact this bug was caused by the Devs trying to fix the above?

In short this bug existed and was reported in PTS. No action was taken. When it went LIVE. It was still known and ignored by the DEVs. Probably believing no one would find it with all the extra time they have since a majority of the expansion was bugged or causing tremendous lag?

FIX the code…. Problem fix

The crime to many of us is, their failure to provide good service. Pretending they are actively correcting this by punishing a define set of gamers is the crime. Whomever designed their billing app should be promoted to game designer. I have yet to have that portion of the company fail to deliver.

BTW…

Bioware could have sent ingame messages to those who did this. Informing them that they are not to continue this behavior without some form of punishment happening would have been the first step in being proactive. They did nothing for 3 weeks in the LIVE servers.

First off you said “now” and then you’re saying it’s not for another week? So how was it ever now?

While we’re at it, here’s another mistake you made. They said “a week or so” which could mean anything. They did not say by next Tuesday, you just made that up.

So you were wrong on both counts.

The word now is used to show they have to face the consequences of the actions it’s not always a reference to time and Tuesday is the most likely time due to the fact that’s when they always patch unless emergency stuff happens.

Except it’s clearly not an emergency. Emergency implies immediacy. This problem wasn’t patched right away, and nobody was banned right away, so where’s the emergency exactly?

Great point and I didn’t think of it. F2P cannot run operations so if the majority of the community is F2P then I guess Bioware would be correct in their statement. But of course lets reward people who don’t support the game or Bioware’s jobs. Its not like we sub suffer enough with undergeared pugs who don’t know mechanics and can’t clear hm trash pulls

my step-mother m.kes $81 an hour on the laptop . She has been fired from work for 6 months but last month her income was $20453 just working on the laptop for a few hours. try this site;.Great

“PVP hacks are still running wild.”

I stopped reading after this – the only honest to god hack that you might be seeing is an occasional speed hacker, and those are relatively rare – other than that, 99 percent of hacking claims are BS.

Star wars become the tempation game!

Lets put a chest o every fleet and let there for 7 weeks!

Who click it, will be a looser and will receive a ban!

For the ones who doesnt fall into temptation, a big prize , bioware’s respect!

Awww, I think I am gonna cry from his heartedly gratitude. On a serious note though this is a load of crap because with the amount of bugs this game has simply logging in will be an exploit in 4.0. For me his reply looks like “oh hey guys, I am all rested and tanned from my vacations thanks for asking. Oh right about the game: thanks for not using exploit for 5 weeks(!). We were too busy testing to fix it because EA loves profits more than customers”.

Does anyone else think it’s going to be a case of next week they’ll say “Still determining the punishment,” leave it for a month or two then do exactly nothing?

Let them ban people….There are soooo many other MMO’s people can play….. U know if u purchase a broken product (read EARLY ACCES to SoR) u have 2 choices: 1. return it to the seller and hope for a refund or 2. continue using it as broken as it is… Im kind of sick and and tired of seeing u whining and complaining and always invoking the ToS here! Go somewhere else and cry your frustration for not taking part into and throwing thrash into everyone around and praising your high morals in a damn COMPUTER GAME! Yes I used the exploit once, yes, it felt THE RIGHT THING to do since I ended up paying 20 bucks for a BROKEN product with no option for a refund for the endless lags on Yavin and all around…. And im not gonna be sorry for it and im not gonna apologize for it, since I didn’t hurt anyone else, and I already had the damn full 192 gear set *without set bonus though* which the exploit gives….. So STFU and leave us BE! If they do something to my account, as I said, there are plenty of other MMO’s around, and maybe they don’t have people like U in there!

As I said, let them ban, plenty of other things to do other than paying for BROKEN products…..still don’t feel like I did something wrong, and wont! And I bet everyone else that used the exploit feel the same…. U’re just crying your frustration for not being able to use it, or being to afraid to and talking about your high moral standards in a damn computer game. Jeez, I wonder if u ever played a full dark side char….. How it made u fell chocking or shooting people point blank range?!?!?!

Nope I am happy to see you crash and burn because it’s what you deserve but it doesn’t seem like you will ever learn the lesson.

Games arent supposed to teach leassons retard… Real life does that…. Thats why u play games, to be able to do what u cant in real life… U should try it too sometimes…. Told u, i dont care if i get banned or not. Im sure im not gonna crate a new account and start all over to use a broken product! Im not crashing nor burning, i just have an allergy to idiots talking about things clearly way above their IQ’s. Actually banning would be a good thing for me….So enjoy your high moral standards in a game if u cant in real life! Forward that to Musco too!!!

Wow huh? Define “lose everything”. If you mean make believe loot, and money in a make believe video game. Okay, sure but i wouldnt define that as “losing everything. So maybe you mean being perma banned from said make believe video game. No.. Im still failing to see your point add up. In the end, none of them will really lose the things that would classify in a balanced life as “everything” and at least a lot of them dont show classic signs of sadism or if you prefer, self righteous indignation. And while i understand all of your points, though i may not fully agree with any polarized view. I dont see why it all really matters if you lead such a “balanced fulfilling life”. Theyre just things, its just a video game..really. I think this thread has lost sight of what ultimately matters. Its supposed to be fun. Though obviously thats my humble opinion. Carry on hanging each other if it pleases you.

Considering some of these exploiters have years of game time and invested large amounts of money into the game only to have it all destroyed.

Yeah they can.

Last week they said they were going to address it today, in other words putting off their decision by a week. A week went by and the exact same thing happened.

That’s like saying they can’t delay a game, update, expansion, or whatever because it already got delayed once before.

Hate to break it to you but if they were going to do that they wouldn’t have set a time table or posted anything at all.

You mean like how they set a time table last week about doing something this week and didn’t do anything?

Oh no wait, they delayed their decision. That was what they did.

Actually they never set a time table for punishment in the 1st message the only time table listed was for the patch now they have set a time table for punishment.

People been freely talking in fleet about it and it gets fixed weeks later??? What more info did they need 5 weeks ago to fix it? Thanks for the carrot, it looked delicious….for 5 freaken weeks.

Well you know, they new about the problem before they released 3.0. It is software running as intended. If they do band or even punish anyone i would think some people might have a legal stand point .

I foresee CLASS ACTION lawsuit. Depends on punishment. How simple would it be to set up. You can reach out to all gamers which will have plenty of free time lol. Beware bioware

Won’t work any lawyer would tell you that you broke the contract you agreed to and thus you have no case.

I believe they’ll do half a dozen or so bans per servers (if that, maybe 3/4), based around those who openly sold stuff on the fleets or were dumb enough to explain the exploit in gen chat.
Others will get a week worth of ban at most and/or maybe their gear/credits rolled back.
BW will say mission accomplished and the next exploit will be kept quiet by the player base, which I’m guessing is the real goal here.
No company wants to have their failures pointed out an mocked.
All in all I don’t much care anymore, I didn’t exploit nor did anyone in my guild or any of my friends so boil them or let them go.
I’m going to be farming those lovely 192 armors for all my companions for a while anyway 🙂

Next time you get a speeding ticket say: “its the car’s fault for letting me go that fast!” And see how that works out.
Just because you CAN abuse the game doesn’t mean its not your fault when you DO. You’ve accepted ToS.. It wasnt hidden from you.

Your comparison is broken and would only make sense if they accidentally put up a speed sign that was wrong (like 99MPH instead of 55) and people abused it when they knew it shouldn’t be that fast. And I certainly hate the idea of a dev putting liability on players, especially the ones who pay. If I pay you for a game and you give me a broken game, then don’t expect me to play it as if it was a functional game. I learned of this over 3 weeks ago. They’ve had a month to act.

I don’t think you get the comparison. The speed limit sign doesn’t make your car go faster than the limit, you do. The ToS doesn’t make you exploit, you do.
If you were going to play through the broken part of the game(aka exploit) then don’t lie and accept ToS. ToS doesn’t say you can exploit if the exploit it available for 4+weeks, it says you can NEVER exploit. If you want a perfect game because you pay for one.. You’re probably going to be disappointed in 99% of games you play.

dont think you can compare a computer game and a speeding car..1 is real and dangerous and the other is a COMPUTER GAME !!!!

What You dont understand is this exploit has been known since PTS and was ignored. Now… Folks feel forced to exploit just to keep up with the rest of the server. If it had been delt with in a timely fashion, then it would not have gotten to this point. Problem boils down to greed as in they are working on Packs > fixing content. Even after an expasion lol.

No. Your analogy is wrong. A speed sign is an authoratitive direction. Nobody from bioware incorrectly told anyone to exploit the game. Also, you are acting like right and wrong is dictated by what you can or cant physically do.
If parents accidentally leave the lid off the cookie jar, the kid isn’t validated in eating as many cookies as he can. That is behavior that ‘should’ have been taught to all of us as ~2 year olds.

Anyone else have an issue when coming to this site on a mobile phone (iPhone specifically) where it instantly redirects you to a website that sends you to the app store? Very annoying.

5 ways to spot someone who knows perfectly well they were doing something wrong:

“It’s been five weeks!”
“Buh-but muh Nefra!”
“They practically forced me to do it!”
“You’re just an EAWare fanboi!”
“I’m gonna kill all the devs with a truck bomb.”

From what People have been saying this Exploit was available since the PTS, so how did this not get patched asap before release? i think both sides are to blame and those that used the Exploit should either not be able to do any Ops for like a week or two or have the Ops Rewards taken away from them. Specially as seeing them getting Banned would only kill BioWares Sub revenue which will impact us all in the long run.

lol doing something wrong? forgive me for “cheating” on a game i play for myself…just funny you stupid fucks take a game so seriously and out of proportion…what goes on in this game is ultimately of no significance or meaning…just wow…period…

umm, your choice to do that…i do it too, but at no time would i hesitate to do something more important if need be…crying over an exploit that dev’s fucked up on is just nonsense…so what if someone cheated, if you are above that, kudos…if not, you are not here to play for someone else, and vice versa…get over your lame ass life and go vote or something, stop bitching that you are not #1 on a game…really?

well they can complain all they like but maybe don’t release a broken ass update where some bosses cannot be killed unless the RNG gods favor you. im sure a lot of players would never have done anything if they had been able to clear content or at least loot the boss

They left a mean to get easy gear and alot of peopke abused it. Due min/maxing their gear using free mods alot of guilds got ahead on progress using the exploit. At that point you either duplicated them and tried to catch up on progress or you stood still while literally everyone took advantage of it. It might not be the right thing to do but while people who abused it are getting punished do not forget that some people will react to it with quitting game. Therefore removing players from game which nowadays not going upwards in numbers aswell. Not to mention people accessed on craftable gears otherwise wouldnt be obtainable will not get punished.

At this point best course of action is to let it go. We all saw the great lines of people outside of ravagers. If not more %40 of player base abused this. And more through the chain reaction from economy

U have no idea about what the exploit actually is, aren’t u???? But u’re just too stupid to say it out loud and just cry about the rules and crimes and so on! 14-15 years old???? :))))

Lol…..and u come to preach us about what its wrong or not…. And did u felt sorry for doing something wrong for once in your perfect life??? Or did it felt good, but you’re too dumb to say it out loud??? U know,what the hell gives u the right to say what wrong and what not if u actually id it yourself, even once????

Haven’t needed to it’s called knowing right from wrong you see examples of it all around you growing up the difference is I chose to keep on doing the right things while you do the wrong things.

Yet u started from doing a wrong thing…. and thats gonna haunt you for the rest of your life… U’ll end up burning in Hell for this!!! All the good deeds in the world dont account for one wrong thing…. havent u learned that by now!

PVP is constant source of hacking, exploiting, and cheating, yet they’re never punished.

How does that look to people? How BW be doing the right thing in this instance while ignoring all others?

You keep going on and on about people being bad or criminals in this game, but you only extend it to this single Ravagers glitch, but what about this last time this happened with Nefra, or just a few weeks ago when people were buy certain vendor items and selling them back for more credits, or all the other things that don’t get punished?

You don’t seem to have a good answer for any of that stuff.

When you have bring up the actions of other criminals to justify why you shouldn’t be punished you have already lost.

What criminals? Nobody I mentioned above committed a crime.

Exploiting stuff like this, Nefra, PVP, and so on is not a crime. It’s wrong, but it’s not a crime.

No part of what happened with the exploit is a federal offense. I don’t know why you’re saying that it is.

People are always coming and going. I am sure they won’t ban lightly but I think it will create a bigger problem for the game and the community if they just let it go. People knew they were exploiting. I am not talking about someone who picked up a piece of loot once, but people who used it repeatedly. That shows they knew exactly what they were doing and those people need to get punished.

You don’t seem to understand the fact that they aren’t going to perma ban a bunch of people. Maybe a dozen or so. Everyone else will get a 72 hour suspension. BW will send out a message/email saying that it’s their first warning and that any incident in the future will result in a permanent banning.

In other words they will try and scare people into behaving. They might be completely honest about “hey buddy next time it’s a perma ban” but the fact is that they’re going to handing out a bunch of suspensions and not bans.

Which is not what I was saying. Do you often make up what other people say instead of reading what they write? Please show me where in my comment I mentioned perma ban? That’s right, I didn’t. I in fact said they won’t ban lightly, meaning that I expect them to ban sparingly. Again not even saying perma ban. That aside you don’t know what BW will or won’t do anyway so don’t say it’s a fact. It may be your expectation for good reason but it’s not a fact.

This is all so funny to me. I could see PVPers wanting free gear but honestly–the gear up is the whole reason people play PVE, am I wrong? You gear up then….gear up an alt? Maybe I’m just clueless because I only PVP, but PVE seems close to pointless unless you value the challenge of the content and yet people still cheat to get through it.

I’d like an honest answer from one of these exploiters though: why do you even play this game?

That’s the best question so far. They seem to be totally down on the game but just can’t seem to simply walk away. I also would like to know what’s up with that.

You’re in the same place genius.

You’re currently down on the game, so why don’t you take your own advice and quit you freaking hypocrite?

Il answer u honestly…. before using the exploit (only once i used it) i finished ravagers 3 times both in 8m and 16m. I already got full 192 gear (with set bonus 2 pieces which i got fairly by defeating the UNBALANCED ops bosses) so i didnt do it for the gear…. Im not crafting things higher than 186 which u can do without the mats u get from it…. When i used the exploit i already finished the ops a 4th time…. So i said to myself, why not using it, just to see it for myself!!! Honest enough for u????

Point number 1 of BW’s list of Do-Nots:
Do not “test” the exploit yourself. Even a single occurrence of using an exploit can lead to action being taken against your account.

yeah that is kinda funny. pvpers would NEVER take advantage of an exploit. there’s such a thing as honor you know

It had something to do with one of the operations, as the title of this page indicates; but as I don’t really do ops, let alone consider touching the lvl 60 ones.

I’m not sure exactly how it was done, but when you kill last boss in Ravagers you’re teleported to a new area where a chest spawns.
If someone had cleared the operation and you joined his group, you could enter the operation and everything would be killed, you’d be teleported to the new area and another chest full of loot would spawn.

You could skip ahead to the final boss of Ravagers with someone else’s full lock out, it would drop a loot crate with stuff in

Well
First of all, exploit a bug then punished, lol how many bug is there in this game and i can’t even recall the time i spend/waste on Ravagers just to kill the last boss due to the bug on Coratani. Soooo if you’ll “punish me” for exploiting your bug then i just find it hilarious because what lead me to exploit it is exactly Coratani bug and so many others… then fine. No problem, don’t even know why i waste my time in this buggy game though, guess i loved it ^^
Two, you had more than a month to see it, don’t you test your game before releasing? Lol Oh sorry, thought you were logic. So expect people who are paying you not to exploit it ? Hilarious again.
So, no problem if you ban, don’t really care, there are other MMOs or real life occupation ^^
Or taking away something i Exploit ? don’t care too, there are other MMO
So how many F2P do you have ? Or “right” people ?
Good luck in your business ^^

And i actually hope they ban enough people, me included, so we quit the game, so this in turn discourages BW and EA from releasing bugged and broken products!!!

Why don’t you people just quit playing if you hate it so much? You don’t need to have BW kick you from the game…you can make a simple adult decision yourself. But no, you stick around waiting for them to do something. That’s just sad really.

Not sad at all… I pay for a product, even a broken one, i want to be able to use it, that including all defects!!!

Even if im not getting banned i seriously consider quitting the game!!! Im kind of tired of paying for a broken product every single time they do an update, so wont matter much really! I have some other better things to do with the 15 bucks than paying for BW heavy bellies and the incapacity to act when being said to over and over again for more than a month!!!

Almost plunked down my usual $160 on the new hypercrate. This latest post reflecting a crazed witch hunt mentality the devs have has given me pause. Many other glitches/exploits have come to pass with pvp’ers parading around fleet in neon rancors/walkers with sparklers and nothing became of it. This attitude is absurd considering this glitch has been around since 3.0 beta.

AGAIN… this bug (exploit) was reported to the dev team DURING the testing on the PTS! Not once, but several times.. yet somehow they swept it under a rug, ignored the reports, and let it go live! Remember “this game has NO bugs”… right? Anyone remember this?! Anything released by the SWTOR crew “is working as intended”.

Why is there even a discussion of “punishment”? Discipline for taking action toward a KNOWN bug is no different than “the Ilum leveling bug”, the “pvp bolster bug”, the “nefra bug”, etc. This game is FULL of bugs, we “exploit” just to clear instances because they are so buggy the correct way. Each and every player who does PVE content knows this.

Eric wrote, “On the plus side, most players didn’t partake in the exploit at all allowing us to focus on the few who did.”.. this isn’t true at all. I personally checked achievements on fleet and would guess that 90% of the online population had taken part in some way. Whether it be exploiting SM only, HM only, or both..More than a FEW people took part in this. Now granted, Im sure they counted the entire player base, including people who quit the game but still pay their subs, people who rarely log on, low level players who werent high enough level, BUT if they only count players ONline during this exploit and those who are high enough to enter the operation, it would be significantly higher than a “few”.

The dev team may suffer embarrassment for allowing this bug to remain for 5 weeks, they may be laughed at for allowing this to “slip” the PTS, but overall, they are benefiting from it. For one, knowing there was gear at the end of the boring new content grind to 60 gave an incentive to hurry and level alts for the reward of awesome gear before it is taken away. Think about it, the more level 60 characters, the more SWTOR flourishes. It may be from a “broken” system but nevertheless, its working better than it was before the exploit. Secondly, there was a huge increase in the market. People exploiting the SM content to learn schematics gave the market a boost! There were credits earned and exchanged from the bug.

Think about this, “negative publicity is still publicity”. Even though all the latest excitement was caused from a “bug”, its still excitement. Who’s to say this wasn’t released intentionally to stir the players up a little?? hmm… a carrot stick? GG BW! You won!

Why stop?

The fact is that it was known about for two months before it got fixed. How is that acceptable?

Even if you want to look at all this from “that was in the past” then it doesn’t make sense to ban people for some time in the future for something that is now fixed. They should’ve been banned today.

On top of all that, what’s the stop this from happening again? Not to mention where are the fixes for all the other broken content, or parts of the game with exploits or cheating that they haven’t addressed?

Or you know you could apply the same logic about the exploit, or this thread even and get on with your life.

Are people going to get banned or not? Guess what? IT DOES NOT MATTER, so why don’t you look past all of this and stop wasting your time posting here or caring about exploit at all and move on huh?

Yeah I know that. I unlike you am aware of what I said and didn’t post some moronic hypocritical bullshit like you did.

How big of a fucking moron do you have to be to post something like that and not be aware of what it is your posting? Like once you typed that out you should’ve realized there wasn’t even any need to post it.

LMAO two months? Someone needs to check their calendar. SoR hasn’t even been out for two months yet. GG

Shadow of Revan has been up the test server as of two months and the problem has existed since then, so it has in fact been two months smart guy.

The problem of the Ravangers fight has existed for two months at this point, so what that guy said above is true. It’s been known about for quite some time now, so pull your head out of your ass and get a clue.

Pull your head out of your ass and stop listening to rumors. Not once has anyone said from first-hand experience it was a known bug prior to launch. Nothing but hear-say and gossip. Then considering people didn’t actually find out about it until two weeks AFTER launch, the same recycled garbage you buy into is nothing but that – garbage

There are no facts on how the devs will respond. Account bans I assume are a last resort. Let’s just see what happens.

It’s not the “Bug” that you are trying to defend, but the actions of others exploiting that bug which is going to cause account action. Just because the bank keeps the safe open during business hours, doesn’t mean you can just walk right in and clean it out.

Take some fucking responsibility for once.

Very Very poor comparison. This is more like finding $10 bucks on the ground, should u pick it up?
Bioware should take responsibility for releasing the Xpansion with a huge known bug in it since PTS, go on vacation, then wait couple more weeks to fix it.

I’m sorry, bypassing content to get a full set of 198’s is not the same as finding $10 on the street. Your analogy is incorrect. The Bank one is similar, not in severity of law, but in similar actions.
Gearing is a core game mechanic designed to encourage players to try the harder content. Cheating to get your gear is still cheating, pure and simple.
I agree that if Bioware was on the ball, no one would have been able to exploit it in the first place. But this is still about people using semantics to justify dubious behavior, and is the juvenile response I usually expect to see by the community at large.

That’s not a 1 to 1 comparison. I can’t believe people keep using insane hyperbole analogies like this that don’t in fact match up.

Your bank example is something that would be taking place in the real world that is a federal crime punishable by prison sentence. You could say that banning someone is like sentencing someone to prison, but it’s not, it’s not even close.

You’re comparing a video game, ie something that ultimately does not matter in life, to something that does matter in a big way.

1. The player community was more pissed than anything else at the people that took advantage of the exploit. Some of my raiders were pissed enough to stop playing until the exploit was dealt with. I think Bioware had more to lose from allowing this to continue than what they had to gain. Though your colorful conjecture may have a little circumstantial truth to it, but I am sure it is purely coincidental.
2. The game was released at the beginning of the Holiday season, I am sure a lot of the devs were on vacation that is typical of this time of year, with minimal staff to deal with things like major content bugs. I believe the time of year had more to do with the delay than people will care to admit. Besides, most of my raiders wont run OPS during the holiday season, at least to pre-built team progression.
3. I personally liked the story line, and since I am sure there will be more within a year, I am satisfied with the result. Most of my guild has stated similar things.
4. Punishment should be expected when the exploit can earn you a full set of high level gear. Regardless of whether the devs should have fixed the exploit before release, people need to take some goddamn personal responsibility, and not abuse something like that. “Nefra” got you implants, and some non-set bonus 186 armor. “Ilum leveling bug” was probably unintentional, and if you felt like skipping content ’cause you did it 8 times, I think should be a perfectly reasonable exploit. “PvP bolster” bug, sort of like Nefra, wasn’t a technical bug, but something players developed ways to game the mechanics of the system. The fact that players are actively searching for ways to cheat, is like saying an appliance manufacture should give you a new washer because you found out that running one towel in it might blow the suspension system, so you ran it non-stop with one towel until it stopped working. Then turned around and bitched before warranty expired, to earn a new machine or upgrade. It is actively gaming the system, and there is not honor or justification to do so. I don’t care how hard the new content is.

Perfect example, regardless of what anyone else says. It isn’t about the content of the analogy, it’s the lesson to be learned from it: “You are responsible for your actions. You and only you.”

meh, no big deal. if i get banned so be it. it’s a game. i had fun and enjoyed it. $15 is about an extra half tank of gas these days anyway.

on my server 95% of the server population is walking around with a chestpiece and no other gear. i’m waving the bullshit flag myself lol.

I think they differenciate between those who exploited and flooded the GTN with cheap mods and those who bought said mods.
Keeping in mind that free to play and premium players that may not have bought the expansion are by far the majority, even if every sub exploited (which they didn’t) they can still claim that “only a minority of players cheated”.
Which is not false since only a minority of the player base even *has* access to the expansion.
Now if they said how many of the sub population exploited, my guess is that it would not be good news.

So, you have looked at the gear/achievements of 95% of the people on your server? Can I waive the bullshit flag on this?

Would you like a picture of my gear, or the achievements, seeing as I have only cleared 8m SM on both. Your call, I will get you the picture. I have no issues, I am not concerned that my account is in jeopardy at all

My guild passed out bans for anyone participating in the exploit. Some of us want to actually earn the gear. Also, I have no sympathy for the exploiters, I hope they all get banned. I highly doubt it will take out more than 5% of the ‘hardcore” raiders, since I’m sure most of them can get their gear without cheating.

It will take out the top 2 guilds on the harb, thats for sure
lol

GG zorz for selling lockout
GG yes for buying lockout
GG savior for trading said lockout

Unlikely, as long as it’s the only MMO with “Star Wars” in it’s name it will go on, no matter what happens to the minority that subs or those who bought the expansion.
Truth be told the only thing that will kill SWTOR is a new Star Wars MMO, nothing else.

Yeah I bought packs like an idiot. Thats why they are waiting to dole out punishments, they wanted us to buy packs first. Money grubbing so hard.

Lets face it. This whole things is actually a really good way for them to get rid of the hard core players so they can get back down to casual FTP focus. Subs bring in a small percentage compared to the cash shop so maybe raiding will be next thing on there list to never make again. Less content and more fashion. Everything the “majority” of the SWTOR community wants.

The SWTOR community wants the DEVS to concentrate on the bugs more and less on stupid packs. We want to enjoy the game not play dress up like some SIMS wannabees.
We also don’t want to be forced to do an exploit just to keep up with the rest of the server.

No one “forced” you to exploit. No one put a gun to your head and said “you’re going to take this free gear that you didn’t earn”. In the immortal words of Barbara Bush: “Just say NO”

Works just fine for every person that was ever offered anything morally ambiguous from time imemmorial. Those that give in are either too stupid or lack any sense of free will. Just sayin

Of course not, its a only a game. However, games are meant to be competitive. When BW decided to ignore the problem, a big freaken problem like this for so long, what are people to think? Even if i already downed the content without exploiting, u still got alts to gear, which means u have to run SM. which means you will probably get carried by all the exploiters, ruining the competative thrive in the game.

You have no idea how complicated a process fixing something like that is. None whatsoever. They didn’t ignore the problem – the people that could fix it did fix it. And they made sure they didn’t break anything else while doing it.

What most people are completely ignoring is the fact the xpac was released just before the holidays. You know, that time of year people would rather be spending time with their families, not trolling forums and whining about something that boils down to peoples lack of self-control.

Totally. Your use of the exploit is Biowares fault for making the content too hard. Un-freaking-believable. I got a better cheat for you to use. How about find someone to teach you how to play better.

Its not about learning anything dubass. Its about having the same level playingfield to compete. Tons of ops groups running around in full 198 on first day. How do u compete with that?
Leaving the bug open for 5 weeks, since PTS, and not doing jack about it left players thinking “its not a big deal”. It being openly talked about in general chat and knowing BW released TOS with this known bug. C’mon

What/who are u responding to? Nobody said anything about difficult content. focus…. on……the …..letters…duhrt

WTF are you talking about? That’s one of the dumbest things someone has said about this.

There’s no way to get rid of the/a hardcore audience. There’s always going to be a replacement hardcore audience. A hardcore audience is always going to exist for an MMO. For instance if you get rid of the that’s there now all that’s going to happen is at some point in the future the audience that remains will become the hardcore audience by the time a new batch of F2Pers rolls in. What you’re suggesting is completely pointless.

As for subs versus the cash shop, who do you think is dropping the most amount of money on the cash shop? The people who can’t afford the monthly fee? Seriously? You honestly think it’s the F2Pers who are using the $100 Cartel Coin tier?

Your single mind does not speak for the majority of the community. Also, the Devs are split into separate teams so having a single team focused on CM items doesn’t take anything away from the team designated to bugs, nor the team developing new content, etc, etc.

no big deal that 16m sm dropped 8m loot or that last boss in ravagers wasnt even dropping loot at first….no big deal..

no big deal that the main fight of the expansion was so bugged you could only finish the storyline with luck lol

And you know, no big deal that the third boss of TOS is unkillable on 16man because it still thinks it is in 8man mode… No. Big. Deal.

Lol, As usual people are ignoring real issues with the game so they can complain about their possibility of getting banned for breaking a known rule. If you make use of bug or otherwise glitch in the game your going to be punished. Oh well…

oh well. i get banned one call to my bank and get my money back lol. either way, i ain’t out anything haha

A reversal maybe, but a fraudulent charge. Nope, absolutely free of charge and he will get his money back. Been in banking since 2000.

But it isn’t fraudulent at all if the charge is paid and you are banned. That is breach of terms of use on your part and they get to keep your money usually. Have a nice day

Wrong. The way a bank looks at it is there was no physical merchandise exchanged. You will get your money back. Bio ware can not/ will not fight you in the charges. You can argue this with me till you are blue in the face and you’ll still be wrong. I’ve been in banking for too long and seen the outcome of these disputes too many times.

i’ve gone the sub probs before. he’s gonna have to prove hard that is was fraudulent. other wise they see it as you gave them permission in the first place to sub. been banking since w/e

No, not wrong. Read the terms of use. It is perfectly within their rights to ban for use of an exploit, AND keep your money. It says so in their terms of use, which you agree to before you play the game.

Regardless of what their tos says. If somebody disputes online charges from a video game where no actual merchandise was given or exchanged, the customer will win every single time. I’m done replying to ignorance as I’ve seen this first hand over many years.

depends on the bank. the one i worked at we gave out refunds all the time lol. all he would have to say is hes banned and boom refund. he payed for a monthly service and service isnt being rendered. hell our credit dept gave refunds on fraudulent charges all the time because its too much bs and paperwork to argue haha

As a sub since beta and someone who didn’t use this (nor did my guild), I can honestly say I find this to be a huge waste of time/resources for ANY of their departments. Tbh, If they were going to do this I’d rather they hire a temp group (give some people some jobs ya’ know) to go on this inquisition.
If some people in the game want to rush themselves to the point of not having anything to do, fine with me – it doesn’t affect me in the slightest. PvP stuff, when I actually feel like it, DOES affect me. Lag, DOES affect me. Un-killable final story bosses DOES affect me. Double purchasing/overpaying skills DOES affect me.
Irregardless of which department handles this, it’s time, money, and effort that could be better used on the rest of the player base as a whole. Clearly if they have what it takes to even remotely begin to correct this, they’ve had what they needed to solve many people’s CS issues that you see posted all over. They could have threw the early subscribers a bone, they could fix a lot more people’s loss of item’s/money. Hell, they could address that GTN situation where people are getting sapped of creds.
Instead, we get all the white knighting from them and some in the community about something that didn’t affect them honestly anymore than that nefra thing did.
You guys want to pound your chests and act like a responsible company that bad, go for it – but hurry up already and get it over with so maybe we can have a LESS buggy environment to play in, and better releases in the future. Maybe try addressing the game breaking things people keep pointing out in pts and beta?

This is the analogy I like to use. Lets say you make yourself some food. You have a dog. Your sitting on your sofa watching the big game. You have to take a leak. You put your food on the coffee table, well within reach of your dog. You come back and your dog is enjoying a nice meal off your plate. You know the dog would eat from your plate if you put it there but you did it any way. Do you start kicking the shit out of your dog for your screw up or do you get mad at yourself for screwing up in the first place. It was your fault.
Please, be kind to your animals. Don’t kick the dog.
Sincerely Sarah Mclachlan

You can also train a dog not to eat off plates and tables…. if you take the time to properly train it. I’ve seen dogs that I *CAN* leave stuff on an easily dog-accessibly table, go for a jog/get laid/go to school, come back and my food is still there.

However Bioware has not been teaching us that eating off the table, aka using exploits is wrong, so yes it will happen.

Keep up that white knighting Shaun, I’m sure you’re getting great kickbacks for defending them so hard.

You know it’s wrong because the TOS says it’s wrong and you agreed to the TOS so did all of the exploiters.

You punish your dog for eating off the table, after 3 years, he’s learned not
to do that.
If you keep leaving steaks on the table, and walking away, before coming back with a pathetic ‘bad dog, don’t do that!”, your dog will just ignore you and do it again.

You can’t appeal to the ‘morality’ of gamers, we are worse than any dictator in history for ignoring morals, especially if it gives an edge in a game. EAware has constantly refused to truly punish that behaviour, so they have in fact been encouraging it to happen. If all previous exploit usage had been properly punished, very very few would have done it here & now, with an easy to do exploit.

TOS was false advertising! The real advertising should have been… “Buy TOS, we left known bugs from PTS so u can now get carried by HM geared folks and not even deal with mechanics on your first run! Hence ruining the game for you! Amazing right? And thats not all… BW will be on vacation, so enjoy the huge exploit and watch the SWTOR community get destroyed in the process!” (Click to buy TOS now)

i will make sure to go and repent my sins to the priest sunday for all of my transgressions in regards to this exploit…lol has nothing to do with wrong or right, except maybe in some eyes, and kudos to you peepz for that…i see this as a game, and i took advantage of a developer having his head up his ass…simple…keep crying about it, calling us criminals, but there is nothing criminal about doing something that was setup to work in the manner peepz used it…what a joke some of these people are lol

If u have a problem with the central locking system of your car and u know this, what u do, u leave it in the parking lot hoping no one will notice and maybe even put a paper on the windshield saying *hey man if u steal my car ill take action against u*…or u take it to an autoshop to get it fixed asap???

They sold on an open market something flaud…. They cant come after 5 weeks and say: *hey, u guys that purchesed the flaud thing i sold u, dont use it or i will take action against u*… Come on, do they sesiously expected someone to go along with this??? I like to think we are all mature people that play this game, not some silly 14 years old kids….. THEY SOLD A FLAUD PRODUCT, they can seriously expect us not to use it…. nd in the end why not use it since we PAYIED for it??? Because of some GAME POLICIES that sais u cant use what u purchesed??? Seriously??? I cant use what i payied for???? Since when???

Yes, Because you agreed not to exploit bugs in the game when you agreed to the Terms of Service. Just like any other “service” that you pay for, they reserve the right to refuse you service, even paying customers, if you break their (very simple) rules.

They are not going to BANN all of you people that did it,maybe a two week bann or something and removal of gear,they will bann the worst so don’t go overboard please.

And yes i am one of the people that is very glad they are going to go after some of these people.

SEE EVEN doncalls KNOWS WHATS UP.

As bad as you may be at times about this situation at least you’re realist about it unlike Shaun and maybe one or two others. Some people don’t seem to understand that there are bans and that there are suspensions and that when it comes to MMOs suspensions are what are given out far more often for stuff like this than permanent ban.

It doesnt make sense to ban people for one,but they should be flagged on their account that if they are caught again then a ban,yes.

I imagine they will do some type of tiered approach,most likely two the worst will get banned and the rest a good slap.

Its really funny how BW is going to punish people for using the exploit. Especially like many have said, they were told numerous times in the PTS stages how the last boss of Ravagers was bugged. First how bout all the guilds out there that pride themselves in being the first to complete new OPS? When they rand threw Ravagers they got no freakin loot! WTF?! BW does nothing but patch it and that’s that. Then a regular casual guild like mine runs Ravagers after the patch to fix the loot and finds out real fast the last boss Cortanni is bugged to hell. She attacks the escape pod, when you go to get in the escape pod the screen goes black but the fight resets, the fight keeps on resetting when you get close to the entrance etc. So, how the fuck can you blame people for learning of a exploit where it allows you to finish Ravagers last boss? After all the reasons why we couldn’t complete the Ravagers that still continued up to this week! its been well over a month that the new patch has been out. Everyone saying that they don’t care if they get banned I don’t agree. I been playin since day one and the months I paid for this game when it was a shit game but its made great improvments in my op, and also all the money ive spent on the cartel market. Ive put a lot into this game, and to ban me because of this bullshit is unacceptable especially after they have had issues like this in the past and did NOTHING. BW if you are reading this shit you need to get your priorities straight, and think about who stuck around when this game wasn’t shit and paid out good money to help keep it goin. I knw we all remember the Ilum PVP days.

“Its really funny how BW is going to punish people for using the exploit.”

No it is not funny.

“Especially like many have said, they were told numerous times in the PTS stages how the last boss of Ravagers was bugged.”

The loot was broke,the loot,you were never on the PTS it appears.

It doesn’t reset if only one person clicks the escape pod. The whole raid does not need to run over to click it. It doesn’t black out and reset if you do this.

At the end when you fight the guy who “sent” you, THEN everyone clicks it, and even then I’m not 100% sure that’s even necessary.

They most assuredly are going to ban and permaban at that! Disrespecting the game, its players and the devs and allowing it to stand will do more harm to the game than any loss of subs.

Yeah right.

Perma banning a bunch of people isn’t suddenly going to earn them a bunch of good will after the disaster that 3.0 has been.

Releasing a product in the state that 3.0 was in does more harm than good genius. What’s your excuse for that? Where’s your solution for that problem?

If they remove anything i got via that ravagers thingie i will just quit game. No punishment for Nefra (I would do Nefra too if i could but i wasnt playing back then) No punishment for pvp bolster exploits, No punishment for people using macros and code hacks. But employ punishment for getting story mode gear which is useless in 2 weeks of hm raiding? Im amazed that people give attention to story mode loot exploits after months of Nefra nim gear exploit. Grats you burned down 5m hp to get it instead walking in. Whats the difference, everyone and their moms had implants and full 186 mods in the end. I dont know anything about it but people say it was a known issue in PTS but yet not fixed.

Basicly you skipped over this issue and went on holidays instead fixing it. People abused it and all. Call it a christmas gift for people and let it go. Otherwise people who are mostly subscribers who can afford to pay for a game can just find a less buggy game with more customer service going on. Im still waiting bugged loot to return from ToS last boss from first week. GG Customer Support GG Devoloper Team. Be thankful we are still funding your game to be in Star Wars Universe

I will just talk to my bank and refund all purchases i made from EA last 3 months if they give me any sort of ban or item removal. If they also make timed ban i will just spread how your time and money can be wasted on this game over getting easy mode loot which everyone on every damn server did.

Wouldnt be first time i asked my bank for refund from EA. Their customer support caused alot of mess in battlefield 3 and 4 aswell. Got my cash back. Plus i played the game and prolly done alot more than your mind can imagine so yeah 😀

When you made your account you accepted the Rules of Conduct for SWTOR. The RoC contains the following:

“To keep the Service a compliant, fun, fair and safe gaming environment for everyone, you may not engage in any of the following behavior:

Exploit any bug in the Service to gain unfair advantage in the game and/or communicate the existence of any such bug (either directly or through the public posting) to any other user of the Service.”

If you exploited, you breached the RoC, and that’s the end of it. What others did in other parts of the game is irrelevant, it is still you who broke the RoC.

How do I know it’s a bug if you didn’t tell me? You sold it to me this way. Also it’s not unfair advantage, as anyone could have done it. If I was a noob MMO player I’d have no idea.

Because it goes against how Operations normally work. This particular exploit allowed you to go inside an operation (16 man content) on your own, not kill anything and grab a chest full of loot. If you cannot see that is a bug, we won’t be missing you.

Mind you, actual “I didnt know this” bugs like the Starship Parts giving you extra stats in PvP Warzones were quickly categorized a ‘not an exploit’ and no punishment was given, because people could be playing without knowing they were exploiting. That is not the case for the Ravagers exploit.

yeah, if you pretend that you are stupid enough to take free loot of a 16m operation for you alone as an intended mechanic you might get that point.

He is prolly thinking people who move %300 movement speed in warzones are just better players. Dont dissapoint him.

well said! and what I don’t get is this is what they want to sink their teeth into? This is my first MMO and honestly I didn’t see this as a big deal. Not saying that I am spotless in this, but I didn’t take loot from a real person, and I never claimed any of these kills as “clean kills”. If there is a bug and I get something for it and it doesn’t hurt any other living being, then where is the harm? It just makes the game more boring down the road, but if that is my choice then where is the harm?

No one forced you to cheat. No one forced you to break the Terms of Service. You did that all on your own. Frankly, you did it to yourself should anything happen. If you can’t understand that, you should quit. Quit and never come back. We will be here having fun without you.

That is why it is time to set an example drop the hammer hard and swift on those that are the worst offenders selling the lockout, transferring servers ect. Give people a 3 day window to appeal the ban if they A) destroy all the gear/mats they got from it on all toons, B) explain exactly what they did and how many times. (I dont know how to solve the rest of the issues with learning schematics and making money from it). This is what other games have done.

People saying it was on the PTS, where did you get that proof from? There is an NDA that was never lifted, and the 1 credible person I saw talking about that was on the PTS said there was no loot there yet and the bug appeared with the transition to live when they hot fixed the loot in.

Take it for what it is worth but it is a counter point that most dont want to hear because it doesnt fit their narrative of why it was ok use the exploit.

Granted BW should’ve made a public example out of people exploiting bugs sooner as most companies do the first time one appears. GW2 dropped the hammer on people right out of the gate that bought items from a vendor that they knew was incorrectly priced and much like these people now defending this exploit use the responses were the same. If you want to have integrity in the game you have to set an example to discourage this from occurring in the future.

But better late then never.

Also the tools saying you only didnt do it if you didnt know, that is poor self justification and just reflects on your own person moral values. All of the podcasts talked about the exploit and told people not do it and most of them did not do it even though they knew about and how to do it. Just because you are guilty of being a dbag doesnt mean everyone else is.

Good day hopefully BW learned something from this and will do better next time. We all know the players wont since very few are actually taking responsibility for their actions.

I am tired of people and BioWare calling this situation an exploit! BioWare released 3.0 knowing that this situation existed, and chose to release 3.0 anyways. This would mean that the software was running as intended. Just an FYI

If you read the terms of service exploits are not allowed. therefore if you know about the exploit and you still do it that is entirely your fault. yes they did release it knowing about the exploit but its the players fault for doing the exploit when its not allowed

Negative Ghost Rider, that would be not be true. If a situation existed, like this one, where the company released software knowing of a situation where they did not want that software to be used in that way, but still released it anyways, then that means the company has the software running as intended. If you have any doubts about this ,microsoft has gone round and round with this in courts and lost several times.

“If you have any doubts about microsoft has gone round and round with this in courts and lost several times.”
please elaborate

Don’t listen to rumors… No one has come forward and said ” **I** found this issue on the PTS. **I** reported it to Bioware.” Over the last month I have scoured every dark corner I could find, looking for one person that had first-hand knowledge that it was a known bug prior to release. Not one.

Nothing but hear-say and gossip. Test environments cannot always anticipate what will happen when you move from testing to deployment. Things happen.

What is painfully obvious is that people did not even know about it until well AFTER 3.0 dropped. And from experience, i can accurately venture a guess that once the problem was eventually identified, it was clearly not a simple fix.

I’m sorry people are so short-sighted they cannot stop to think “Do I really want them messing around with code that could potentially make the issue worse? Or do I want them to take the time to engineer a fix that would not only stop the problem, but ensure no other problems crop up as a consequence?”

It is obvious from the patch notes that this was not the only bug fix the game needed. You have no clue how complex a game like Swtor or MMOs in general are. There’s a ton of things you cannot anticipate when you make these kinds of changes. Patience and cooperation are the cornerstones of User-Developer and Host-Client relations.

Exactly, the PTS was closed with an NDA that has not been lifted. The only word I have heard about this is 1 member of a guild to actually clear HM that was in the PTS said there “was no loot on the PTS and this did not exist at the time. It was added when they hot fixed the loot in for live with release”. So this poor justification like from Scooby the great appears not to be true just poor assuming shit per usual.

On Merriam Webster dictionary it says

Exploit:
1: to make productive use of : utilize
2
: to make use of meanly or unfairly for one’s own advantage <exploiting migrant farm workers.

Sorry, I always laugh when I actually look up things like this in a dictionary that doesn’t really apply to our use of the word:) I can see his point though, kind of. I mean we assume (for good reason) that its not suppose to work this way because we are use to loot working a very particular way based on how it always has worked.

However, in the past they have done things like give full sets of gear when you hit 50 to help the community get back up to SM raiding gear level faster to encourage people doing operations.

The point is that there’s a little bit of guess work that we need to make when new content comes out whether or not its working as intended or a bug. In this case, it was this way on the PTS and released as is for weeks with no word from Bioware that it actually was a bug. One could say that only those who used the exploit after Bioware said it was an exploit, intentionally violated the ToS:)

Just food for thought. I’m bored and all this doesn’t matter. Just words words words by all of us. All that really matters is what they decide to do and what happens from there.

It’s not like BW doesn’t delete posts on the forums. They did it numerous times with Nefra, among other issues. They try to “hide” the exploit info from the general public so that shit like this doesn’t happen.
The real issue, is as many have pointed out, is how BW has handled this shitshow also known as 3.0. From the terrible launch to this latest pile of crap, it’s been incredibly unprofessional, too say the least. Again, I am not for or against the exploiters. They know what they did and they have to live with it. The fact that numerous people informed them of the exploit, in addition to the terrible state of the game after 3.0 and they took 2 weeks off says a lot about company priorities. In some business, this would be grounds for termination of employment.

If the exploit existed and was reported on PTS, they didn’t need to confirm anything. They knew about it, don’t kid yourself into thinking they didn’t.

just because you don’t (can’t) fix it by data xx doesn’t mean it is intended. Poverty, war, skid marks in your rants are surely all but intended. Does that mean they neve occur? Even though nobody wants them?
The Problem is the BW did not spend adequate manpower to prevent a known and serious bug / exploit before release.
Why? Because they were busy with their new Content and not even this was working smoothly as intendend. War are talking about a mere fail out of incompetence. Simple, as that.

I am just baffled at how poorly Bioware handled this. I’m usually a BW apologist, but everyone saw this unfolding early on, and what a cluster this was going to become. For them to sit on it as long as they did, after it became painfully public, without an emergency patch, was insane. And now here we are. Look at the mess. It could have been contained. Should have been contained. I’ve seen them emergency patch for things so trivial compared to this, why on earth would they choose to leave this so long??? I mean, this was a deliberate choice they made!!!

Would you rather they have broken a dozen more things applying this imaginary emergency patch? Get off your high horse and let them do things right, not “right now”

Dude STFU. An emergency patch to correct this wouldn’t have broken a dozen or more things. It’s an edit in a single file that doesn’t involve any sort of complex fix.

The problem exists in the first place because Bioware patched the PTS version to work the way it does so that people could get loot from the last boss. It was a change they made on the PTS then left as is when it went live.

You’re completely over exaggerating and apologizing for BW for a problem that should never existed when SoR launched. Either it was something they completely forgot about until people started exploiting it or they left it as is because Ravangers was already so broken that they didn’t expect people to be able to make it through it all the way. Either way it reflects poorly on BW.

You exploit defenders need to go to church this Sunday and complain to God about leaving that apple for Adam and Eve. God knew about that exploit and still left it in the Garden, therefore Adam and Eve were entitled to take advantage of it (even though they had previously been warned not to)! Literally ALL human sin and misfortune throughout history is God’s fault for leaving in that exploit!

I find it odd they have the time and resources to go through all that data within two weeks but yet they failed to patch the exploit within two weeks? Or better yet.. how about the gree event or bounty week… would have been nice to see people put on that early so we didn’t have the current delay due to lack of preparation on bioware’s part. Oh well, I guess I get to enjoy this game for two more weeks until I get banned or ubsub due to bioware taking my items, RIP SWTOR was fun 😛

I hope you do get banned or unsub. The money I spend will cover your absence, and it means one less exploiter/crybaby in game.

Easy : they write one short search-mask to comb through the accumulated data, and thens sort it by numbers and determine consequences
Much easier done then doing some entirely new coding for parts of the game.

EA/Bioware has benefitted by this exploit by having people buy the Revan expansion. They have made tons of money from people coming back to the game to get better gear.
My bet is they did this on purpose to increase their 4th quarter sales. Watch when their earnings report comes out and how “well” they did.

It is laughable to think how they are recoiling from the exploit when they could have implemented a hot fix a long time ago.
If they ban players they will just go to another game.
It is laughable how this one is THE one when there have been and continue to be other exploits and hacks, botting, gold farmers etc.

I truly failed to see the advertisements of “Buy Shadows of Revan – use the Exploit while it lasts” and “Only six weeks of Exploit – buy NOW”
Please look for a better excuse why you purposefully violated the universal terms of the game^^
And yes, if they ban players those will have to go to another game (and/or grow up) if they get perma-banned.

I would strongly advise against biting the hand that feeds you. I would also stop threatening players for a glitch that was known about and could have been fixed. If they ban, take creds or items away from people or take any other actions you may very well end your little mmo.

1) this is Dulfy not swtor forums. So this advisement as you call it will not be seen by the people you are currently upset at. 2) Your little threat means nothing. YOU can unsub. In the money I put into the game, I’ll cover the pittance of money they lose with you.
And last, but not least, you who have exploited are perhaps the lamest I’ve seen in all my time in MMOs. Why? because it is PvE. You are quickly getting the gear to…what? PvE has two attractions. One,the achievement. To do something challenging. Second is the gear. Now, if you have the gear, what point is there to do the Op more than once?
it will be months. Many. before you see new operations added to the game. And so YOU and others like you will spend said months complaining about not having anything to do. You ruin your own fun.
The reason they want to ban you is because the disrespect. You openly sold tickets to this exploit. Flaunting it. Sticking a finger up at BW and saying, “nyah nyah nyah nyah, you can’t ban me”
Most have done this since launch because BW doesn’t take much action. This time though…well, I think you may have pushed them over the edge with it. So i hope you get what you deserve. And I look forward to the QQ

Everyone deserves respect. Especially those that keep the game we play going. is it perfect? no. Point me to something that is. But it could be a LOT worse. You want to act cool by posturing and flippin a finger at the ‘man’. Go ahead, but a company – even one so desperate for subs as EA – will only take so much.

They keep it going, sure, but they do little else. Content is added in dribs and drabs, with most of the content through the year being new items in the store. It has nothing to do with me wanting to ‘act cool’ (I don’t know why you dropped to such a petty level with that tbh), it has, however, everything to do with EA being a shitty company and the BW devs consistently lying to/misleading their customers while they focus on pushing the next cash shop bundle.

You say it could be worse: could it, though? I’ve never played an MMO with such a shitty team behind it. Writing is childish and poor for the most part, bug fixes are very slow (or completely non-existent) to arrive, content is incredibly minimal when it does finally arrive, there is no CS, communication between devs and players is incredibly limited, with censorship taking place on more than one occasion. SWTOR is the ‘it could be worse’ example I use when people complain in other games.

Respect is earned. BW just don’t care enough to try earning it.

Whenever I make a new character I have 25 emails filled with items that didn’t require any work on my part to earn.

Makes sense, considering the number of times I have done something and not gotten credit for it (i.e. Walking on Hallowed ground not giving credit for beating it), other bosses not dropping loot that was patched later on.

I call bullsith on that.
So, GSF has got a myriad unfixed problems, (dating back to June last year), events are FUBARed up, and you have time to analyze data on how many times my toon, pardon my French, farted this morning?

Oh, and it’s a “small amount of players” eh? Didn’t you say that it was “widespread and openly discussed in chat”?
Makes no sense.

Also, how do they expect to take items away from players? What if they, anticipating your “actions” spent all their comms and credits?
No, nevermind.
With how buggy SWTOR is, trying to take away earned items would probably reset people’s levels, social scores and other stuff!
That would lose more players than normal banning would.

Okay, so, I’m reading this page while waiting for Trapjaw to respawn and doing crafting for conquest (and a HM to pop, whicnh, on a DPS, is a pain).
Please tell me you are doing something as productive with your time while arguing with me….

No, I actually was out of touch for this particular exploit.

This time I’m merely trying to wage war on stupid. So far, stupid is winning.

Hey, I never QQ, I only pewpew.
Also, under federal law, there are no provisions for game exploits.
Go to college before spouting idioms.

Just as federal law doesn’t prevent Bioware from banning you for violating the ToS. That particular idiom is another way of saying “accept the consequences of your actions.”
Perhaps you should have stayed in college?

Defensive are we?
Got us a nice set of gear have we?

It’s so hilarious to hear all these wild accusations flying around. Good thing they are not live ordnance, or Earth would resemble Alderaan in appreance.

Lets say, for the sake of argument, that I, Outlaw [charactername], the Notorious Pirate of the «Haxploit» guild spent the past weeks grinding my ass off on Ravagers, gearing my 66 alts across three servers and getting so much money that I could buy and furnish a flaghship for each of my characters.

Then, for the same sake of argument, lets assume I get banned.
How will that benefit you?
If you are an honest citizen, it won’t because I did not do anything, as of yet, evil against you – apart from offending your principles, but people offend my principles in chat on a daily basis.
But, if you are another exploiter, but didn’t put as much effort into it as I did, my abundance of resources would inevitably screw you over in the market sense.
So, I guess you have a motive for getting people banned! You want to reduce competetion!

[cue evil laughter #3385/4a)

Hm people bitching and bitching and bitching AND BITCHING about things getting fixed. Hm. Now if only most of us gave a shit you are gonna unsub or whatever it is you unrelenting whiners are crying about now. Pretty much most of these are “Don’t take away my stuff! I used the exploit but it isn’t my fault! IT’S THAT GUYS! Please don’t take things from me!”

Yep, that’s probably your single hope, that there were so many people who used this exploit that banning them all would mean a significant population drop.

“We have a lot of information! We know who used it, who they invited, how many times they exploited, when they participated, credits gained, and whether they gained a crafting pattern from reverse-engineering”. You seem to know a lot about exploiters but do you know who your gf slept with while you are busy analyzing these data?

Hah, yeah she’s in Costa Rica photographing exotic rainforests for future Rishi Fp’s with her guide Alfonzo.

Yeah, I really want to see these “punishments” … Blizzard also, We will see if Bioware can do something right this time …

Yeah, Bioware, I’m sure “most” players didn’t indulge in this naughty behavior, like all the 12 year old f2p players trying the game out over Christmas break. But I guarantee that a very significant amount of your well-established, high level, and subscribing players did. I would love to see what will happen if you ban them all for a period of time, or dish out some other form of rigid punishment. Especially considering the level of frustration that already exists among this community with your game at them moment. There are plenty of other places that they can choose to spend their time and money. Places where they can manage enough FPS to actually enjoy the equivalent of a 16-man OPS or Warzone.

Wrong on my server a lot guilds didnt exploit. And we are progressing in HM on ravagers. Bioware has data and as far as i know only few “pro” raiding guilds did and sold lockouts. Those guild are known in past abusing exploits like Nefra and so on. For once it would be good to even temporary ban those asses for week.

A small percentage? Of what participation level? Please clarify. And will those who purchased mods RE’ed from ill-gotten loot and benefited from it not to be reprimanded or have their hands slapped? They also knew what they were doing, everyone knew it, in fact those that objected “financially” were in the minority. I think BioWare is going to discover, or already has, that those demanding heads roll are fewer than those willing to retire from the game should drastic measures be taken to just a specific class of violator. The “share of the blame” defense in ban negotiations can even go as far as BioWare itself who did nothing in PTS or for weeks after it was released into the public servers, opting to release defective code then the whole company go out of town for 2 weeks. In fact, I understand CS had a role to play in the production of this exploit. I wish I had partaken in this exploit, I doubt they can do anything and if they do farewell, the game is getting extremely unstable and shaky, not due to the players. It is quickly becoming a bad game playing experience.

I have stopped playing. Incompetent handling of all these issues made me pause and rethink before I buy my next 6month sub. I will wait out what Bioware does.
So there is one example for you…

It’s so adorable watching all the exploiters whinge and threaten to quit if they get punished. What did you expect was going to happen if you abuse an exploit of this magnitude?

I know haha, they finally realise that they might actually get banned for doing this and they are clutching to as many straws as they can find.

Yeah, they’re totally gonna ban everyone and not just toss out a bunch of suspensions.

Seriously get a fucking clue moron.

Ahh, the same thing that happened when the Nefra Exploit was ignored and all the other current PvP exploits currently in use that BW has done nothing about. I am sorry my friend, it is you who are in the dark. The only difference between now and then was it was BioWare’s negligence that initiated such a colossal event.

it was different man not that I did it or the nefra one but you still had to fight the boss and kill it in the nefra one not just enter ops and get loot with out doing a thing that is why this one is so bad

the fun thing is – everybody complained when nothing really was done about the people exploiting Nefra. Now BW threatens to take off the kid gloves and everybody claims “but you didn’t punish us on Nefra, so why now ?”

You really dont get it? Did people trade locks for Nerfa? Did people selling locks to get loot WIHTOUT even killing? No

I do wish personally that Nerfa exploiters back then also should have been punished some way…

How about your precious Zorz, the only guild who has cleared Ravagers HM, SELLING the HM lockout to YES on Harbinger? Zorz, who are now the ones pointing fingers and naming names, who are the ones to blame for the HM lockout getting out in the first place. Will they be punished? Doubtful.

Get your priorities straight, BioWare.

IKR, their precious Zorz who participated in the invitation only closed beta, the ones who had advance knowledge of this exploit from the PTS and used it to their advantage, the ones who invited all their friends in other guilds to partake. Now fearing their own demise turn on their community and start pointing fingers “it was stolen from us”. Yeah right, BioWare will buy that excuse hook line and sinker, LOL. No BioWare is dumping a load in their pants over what to do with this situation, especially if Zorz, the perpetrators, manage to squeak out of getting a perma-ban for starting the whole mess and solely responsible for destroying the confidence in the game. We know the truth and BioWare had better realize this before they act.

Calm down people, the Op didn’t even drop loot on the PTS. The exploit wasn’t there because the Loot wasn’t there.

The exploit was a side effect of their hotfix to add loot to live servers, nothing more.

Regardless, Bioware has all the chat logs and can see who profited from the exploit and stuff, so the people responsible for the spread of the HM Lockout will be banned.

ROFL bioware cant even stop gold sellers from posting mmowin.com or the name of whatever other scam bullshit website they are from in the general chat box when it appears a thousand times a day.

I’m guessing you have absolutely zero evidence of this, but rather spew out bullshit other people have “supposedly” seen or heard about in chat or from their dead cat.

“Bioware released a defective product, therefore it is their fault I used an exploit.”
“Bioware knew about this exploit and did nothing about it, therefore my use of the exploit is justified.”
“If Bioware bans me or my friends for breaching the terms of use, I will stop playing”
QQ more please, the game will be a better place without you.

If everybody who complained about the game quit it would be empty.

I guess you’ve never had a single complaint about the game huh hypocrite?

Complaining about a punishment for cheating is a different matter from say, complaining about skill lag. The whole world needs to understand actions have consequences

16m raids still broken… GJ bioware lets focus more on these exploiters.. and no such much this broken product you are currently charging people good money for

I dunno, I would hope that most players period (any way you measure it) would not use an exploit, I guess I don’t get the appeal of cheating anywhere but especially in a game like this. I like progressive raiding and the fun to me is eventually beating and earning the rewards, not having loot just handed to you for doing nothing.

so true I was like why cheat whu just a exploit to get gear do it the right way learn your class get good at it do the ops they way they are meant to be done and get your gear that way I know lots who didn’t do this and I give any one I see that has done it shit as they must suck so bad to have to use a exploit to get gear it doesn’t matter way it in game and that they left it there for so long everyone knew it was a exploit and it clears states in the terms and condition the expoilting the game is not allowed

You would be shocked how many people didnt partake in this exploit. I have 12 chars and 10 lvl 60. In my guild no one exploited. One got offered in pug ops group but left after leader wanted to exploit last boss.

Let the exploiters burn and know what will happen.

Your guild must be one of those 12 man guilds then. I *guarantee* every big guild had at least one person who has the achievement.

Sorry to dissapoint you but we have over 25 active players in guild and i can assure you many guilds didnt exploit. Only those MUST have MUST exploit loot did it. Doesnt matter if person was in 12 man guild or 100 man guild.

If you can’t play fair you don’t deserve to play at all. I hope they ban every single exploiter, actions have consequences… if mummy and daddy didn’t teach them not to cheat and steal I have no problem with BW doing it. The only people that want those kind of people around them are other cheats and thieves… the community as a whole is better off without them, and I seriously doubt it will hurt BW’s profits noticeably to dump all of them. I say I hope retribution is swift and harsh.

Lovely, so nothing should be done about the PVPers who have been cheating for years in this game huh? This is where you’re finally taking a stand, over this specific exploit.

It’s so easy for some asshole like you to jump on the current band wagon, but where were you during the last big exploit, or the one before that, or the before that, or the ones that continue to be used? Oh then you’ve got nothing to say huh? Then again how could anyone hear you with you head shoved so far up an ass.

What does any of that have to do with this exploit? So many entitled bottom dwellers that think that they deserve to cheat because cheating has happened in the past. Bottom line is they need to start somewhere, so why not draw the line now and discourage future cheating. Hopefully this becomes common practice for people knowingly exploiting. I know all the entitled brats will be upset but really who cares. They need to grow up and stop bringing down our society.

If you want to talk about exploiters, lets look at the company that conned me into buying an expansion and subscription that turned out to be a lag fest from Hades. The fps and lag issues have made the game unplayable for me since 3.0. So I dicked the game that dicked me, and I feel about as bad as I would cheating at checkers with myself. And I am not saying this in retrospect. These were my exact thoughts when I grabbed a few pieces of gear that I haven’t even had an opportunity to put to use. If Bioware wants to refund me my subscription, then they can go ahead and punish me how they see fit. Until then they can blow off. I don’t know about you, but every WZ I’ve played for the past 5 or 6 weeks has been choppier than a butchers shop. It’s not a minor problem, it’s huge! The same goes for the new Operation content. Under normal circumstances I would agree. But not this time. Hell no. Your logic presumes that Bioware isn’t being unethical, but they most definitely are.

So…. either the game was too laggy to play or it was not really laggy (but you are still complaining about it ) so you could race to level 60 and exploit a hard mode ? So what exactly is it ? On which part of your statement are you dissimilating ?

Especially funny : “if you ban me after I admit to cheating, could I please have back my money ?”

LOL – no one is going to ASK. We will just reverse credit card payments to them for the past year or so. And file complaints with the BBB. And then it is “bye-bye Bioware”

And the only reason people didn’t use the exploit is because they didn’t know about it, and now they are acting all high and mighty, while in truth they are just butthurt for not being able to do it themselves.
Who ever knew about it – did it.
Nuff said.

You continue to miss the point. Whether the exploiters “deserve” to get banned or not, enough people exploited that any punishment could cause a mass exodus, followed by people reversing their recent credit card charges. Punishing the exploiters could kill the game. Players are already furious that Bioware released a buggy expansion and then went on vacation.

”THOU SHALL HUNT DOWN THESE EXPLOITERS AND SMITE THEE WITH A BAN OR OTHER PUNISHMENT ONCE ALL DATA BE GATHERED !!! IN THE MEANTIME EVERYONE ELSE PLAY THY BUGGED/BROKEN CONTENT…YOUR EMPEROR HAS SPOKEN.
*whisper whisper whisper*
what? making people play bugged to death/lagfest/glitched shit for over a month and fixing nothing is like exploiting too? shhh don’t tell anyone, maybe they won’t notice while they try to kill each other also throw a new shiny on the cartel market, that’l keep the fishes happy”

lol this comment is epic! nothing like putting the shoe on the other foot, lol talk about exploits here, bugged content, lag fests (admitted to by BW and “addressed”) and yet they still find it ok to take our money and not keep the game running smoothly…GG Eban! you exploit aggressors are so blinded by hunting those down that exploited, you dont even see the product you are spending your money on and how the ones you are defending are exploiting you…epic…guess them basement walls keep you from seeing the light?

Guys, okay, now I am really really pissed. BW dumped this POS on us then the entire company immediately took a 2 week vacation. First rule in IT, if you are going to introduce a major change in the environment, especially one with known bugs in it (that you made the go/no go decision to run with it despite all the issues, due to financial and scheduling pressures/priorities) then do it when you can immediately support it. After all, our monthly payments go for that support. 1) Someone was getting paid too much with our money 2) Someone is STILL getting paid too much with our money.

BioWare needs to reimburse us for the time they failed to support it, per our agreement, while knowingly introducing a mass of defects into the production environment, failed to disclose or even acknowledge it. Per the terms of our service agreement there are no black-out dates associated with the service they are selling us.

2 week vacation? you are giving them slack this was from dec 2 to jan 13.. that is more like 6 weeks minimal not even giving them the benefit of the doubt all the major bugs with 3.0 were present in the closed Beta they invited guilds to

Are you really trying to tell them how to do their job? They don’t come to McDonald’s and tell you how to flip hamburgers… Get a clue: the fix couldn’t have been done in the two weeks leading up to the holidays, otherwise it would have been.

Wow this is so funny to me…as subscriber and one who doesnt pve at all i am so glad that this may take all those raiders out of pvp for conquest garbage at least as long as there ban goes on maybe then we can have people i can tolerate

true noobs i can tolerate and decent pvpers i can tolerate but folks who are just there for lol conquest in full raiding gear for laughs…i can only hope that those are the ones being banned as well

seriously if you really i mean truly believe that lack of a fix on biowares fault makes it completely ok to do and does not violate the ToS you are really reaching…

this isnt even a moral issue this is a logic issue…and honestly the ones who exploited sure slap em on the wrist, but the ones who “bragged” or “sold” openly those are the ones who need to just unsub now you know those are the ones that are gonna be gone soon.

I hope they go after the PvP cheaters as well win traders in ranked for example,BW really has a chance to set an example to squash any future people using exploits,hacks,scripts etc and i hope they do,with the movie coming we will see an influx of new players,matter of fact my guild has ever since the trailer released and the last thing BW should want is having these toxic people around whether they PvP,PVE does not matter,they are no loss in any form to the community,good effing riddance.

lol this is coming from a pvper who i am sure knows about all the hacks going on in pvp…pathetic man, and really hypocritical…guess the blind always “see” the faults in others and miss the ones within…

What a debate, look at it this way, lets say you pay for a brand new car, you paid for to come without bluetooth, but for some reason the factory made a mistake and you get delivered a brand spanking car including Bluetooth.. who would honestly not take advantage of that.. or would you simply never use it cos you never paid for it… so, you could look at it as its BW fault for not delivering the good correctly and any attempt to use the fault/mistake to your advantage (not including hurting / gaining upper hand on other players) should be forgotten about as the issue was theirs not ours.

It’s more like you walked through an unguarded side door to the factory, drove off in a brand new car you didn’t pay for, then told all your mates about it / sold access to the door to other thieves.

That’s the factory’s fault for not guarding the door and we aren’t really stealing, this is a victim-less crime. Who does this not benefit?

No, that would be your fault for knowingly breaking the law and then blaming it on the factory owner, instead of doing the morally right thing and alerting them to the fact their side door was not secure.

Except in that case, you’ve actually stolen something someone could potentially sell (which is why these house, bank, etc… analogies simply don’t work).
In this case, bioware hasn’t lost anything revenue wise. Even if you wanted to, you couldn’t buy the chest piece from them.

Basically you were able to get loot from the last boss in Ravagers without having to do anything. So you would group up with someone with the lockout then you were able to just walk in and loot the cache.

This topic is getting way out of hand now.
All the comparisons and justifications (true or not, feeling like it’s ok or not) on why people did this exploit is just sickening.
Was it BW’s fault that the reported bug was not fixed? Yes.
Was it BW’s fault that people who found this made advantage of it in any way? No.

Intentionally using a bug for taking any kind of advantage is an exploit (this is made crystal clear in all MMOs).
No argument needed whether having a buggy expansion justifies you for doing this or not. This was not something that all players tumble upon and accidentially use it – it was intentional and required specific methods which would almost never occur in normal gaming conditions.
I assume all players are adults and can make choices in their lives (IRL or game) that does it worth it or what? Bear the consequences.

The really disgusting point in the whole story – if it’s really true – is that HC raiding guilds sold the method between each other, and could not resist the urge to make profit of this whole mess.
And I feel pity for those players in these guilds who didn’t want to participate, but got to take the shit for other’s actions. Pardon my words if this is not true, and just a made-up story (we’ll find out soon).

Like it or not, by playing the game you’ve accepted the Terms of Service and thus you’ve accepted it’s rules.
It’s not the exploit that is the most problematic here, but people trying to justify and wash themselves of what and why they’ve done it.

Sorry for the long post, no potato here.

I’d like to see these exploiting jokers pull this in WoW.

Only thing BW is at fault here for allwong people to get away with murder for 3 years now. Big surprise folks now exploited en mass.

BW either comes down on this hard or feck it, I’m explointing the sith out of the next bug. Cos why the heck wouldn’t I? Why the heck play fair when you’re basically an idiot if you don’t take advantage of such bugs while you can and then laugh your way to the bank as BW just ignores it?

Exactly. Biowares fault is that they are too soft dealing exploiters. And thats why community getting used to cheat and abuse game knowing that Bioware dont really do harsh bans.

Someone said that we cant lawsuit BW for ban’s and his right. But…..
They sold me broken product and if they didnt knew about that is broken would be ok more or less and we geting to BUT. But they KNEW (since PST) was broken and this is forbidden in my county by the law….

simply you cant sell broken products. But we are small, they are BIG and they can do what ever want to do….

No, this is not what it is about.

You can arguably compare to: Would you steal stuff from your neighbors house if his door was knocked down by a storm? Did your neighbor by that logic allow you to go in there any steal shit, because he doesn’t have a door that prevents you from doing it?

The fact that they knew about the bug has absolutely nothing to do with it – and it is in no way an excuse.

omfg, lol you compare a fucking game to a real life situation, taking advantage of a neighbor when they are down…stfu man! this is a god dam game, and play it the WAY WE FUCKING WANT TO! doesnt mean someone took advantage of something working, yes WORKING in game, noone hacked it, it was there to play… no exploit here, the devs put this in the game, it was meant to be there, the fact someone took advantage of it and leaked it out? oh well…get over yourself and “holier than tho” attitude and quit making ignorant assumptions about people you dont even fucking know…actually, i think i am gonna get some guildies, meet up in real life, and go pillage, rape, steal, vandalize, etc cause that is the kind of person you stupid gaming fucks seem to think anyone that played the exploit is…you peepz are pathetic, and need to get out of the basement of mama’s house and go get laid…

When will the lynch mob stop using the “steal”-argument. nothing (!) got stolen. but actually i dont care anymore. if they ban, they ban, if not, they wont.

funny coincidence – an ingame support told a guildmate that had accidently destroyed an item that they can’t (!) give it back to him cuz they only can look back as far as 72 hours. so appearently they were lying back then or they are lying now. i guess they lied both times.

Dude Stilluff, are you actually reading what people are writing? He said nothing about sueing them for leaving the exploit in. He is talking about legal action against them for delivering and selling a product that is defective.
And for your information while the EULA and ToS might be binding in the US, they are not in Europe. There have actually been lawsuit about that at the highest court…

The situation here is very different. If your neighbor’s door had been sitting open for an entire month, and the whole time you are watching people going in all day and take stuff from a magical infinite-respawn stash of whatever he has in there, and the whole time your neighbor is home and watching people take his stuff, but he says nothing, for a whole month- AND… the last time his door was blown off he never said anything or called the police when his infinite stash was plundered, that is a different story entirely!

Actually it very much does. If you sell a product anywhere you will have to bow to that countries law.
You should learn to research stuff before stating facts wich are factually wrong.

Lol Mike really. Do you want Darwin award? Go ahed and look how many people sued MMO companys over bugs selling product that has “flaws”

Really i mean really are you serious?

Lol Meelis, really! Firstly the darwin award is given for people commiting suicide, what has that to do with anything i said, at all? Secondly, i never mentioned MMO companies being sued, not because there weren’t any but because i don’t know of any particular court case. But if you do some research you will find that there have in fact been lawsuits against publishers selling software that was so riddled with bugs, that the court decided for them to refund buyers…

Why would anyone who isn’t an idiot believe you would be able to sue BioWare for this? The only persons who really fucked up are the exploiters – they did something that was against the Terms of Service and they knew it all along. BioWare should have fixed this sooner, but that doesn’t really fucking matter.

I talked about this on the general section of the forums and was flamed by many ppl and i will knowingly and willingly posted it here. Basically i am tired of all this, i want to play the game, but it’s hard with all the bugs, that is why i made this petition to try and make an influence In my country of Denmark when we are not happy we let people know.

https://www.change.org/p/bioware-fix-the-game

Please sign if you feel cheated or perhaps robbed of you money as a subscriber who is not getting what he is paying for, i know that is how i feel.

And what about the Nefra Nim / HM exploit? Schematic?Money?Economy?
No need to start now.
Bioware’s fault. Did nothing to him. (PVP / Nefra)
The bioware community works fine.Like a kindergarten “If you see you break your head, I know where you’re going, maybe in next week….” I hope somone calls the educator …:)

Shut the fuck up. It is not BioWare’s fault people resorted to actually exploiting the game. Yes, it should have been fixed sooner, but that does not give people the right to exploit it. People deserve to be banned and have their items removed because they knew what they were doing was unintented and an exploit.

I am not angry. I’m annoyed after reading the forums and seeing people comment like you did. Trying to justify an exploit saying it’s bioware’s fault. Please.

And no, I have never exploited anything in SWTOR.

You should learn to read and interpret correctly.
He said it’s their fault, because they did not persue any action on all the other exploits that were floating around. And that is very much true.
Nefra was going on for months and was no less severe than the Ravagers exploit. I’d say that establishes consuetudinary law if you let people do exploits for months without doing anything about it…

It’s entirely BW’s fault. They created the exploit. If you own a weapons factory, and sell a load of guns to bad people, you’re responsible for the bad shit they do with those guns. Love how people religiously defend BW’s inability to respond to PTS feedback before pushing stuff to live…

I was pulled into this exploit unknowingly, and I was told by guild that if I told the entire server about it through the General Chat. They said they would say I did it also. I said to them ” Are we killing stuff, or is it a boss like Hateful? ” and they said “We already downed it, just come in and loot.” For the 1st time I was suspicious and when the 5th time rolled around I was like: “No, this is exploiting”. I have cleared all the Nightmare Operations, and including Empowered Mode of Dread Fortress and Palace under an Hour. I’m a hardcore raider, but my fellow SWTOR players. I am terribly sorry. I should of soiled my good raid name for the sake of other players

“I was pulled into this exploit unknowingly, and I was told by guild that if I told the entire server about it through the General Chat.” < Wanna rephrase that?

Anyway – it sounds like you're in a guild of douchebags. If your officers and GM treats you like this, is it really worth it?

Since when does it take 5 times, going to a boss you did not kill and looting him for any gamers to realize you we’re exploiting? Mush less how your won guild set it up.

Not the topic here but atm 3.0 endgame is looking rather limited to put it kindly. I can’t see that as a good thing either.

woot, let em ban entire imperial side on JC
actually idc if they ban me or not, dont play much anyway
and to all those complaining about ppl “exploited” – shut up, its just a game

It is just a game but it’s still poor character. My life won’t change because of this exploit situation, neither will it change my game experience. However, the level of self-justification and pointing of fingers from exploiters is disturbing at best. If you don’t get that, well, it just proves the point really. Good to know you don’t care about this game though… That also means the devs can completely ignore your opinion.

my life didnt change from it either, its just a few extra armor pieces, believe it or not. but let the haters hate.

I personally find it quite amazing how people feel so strongly about other people using a PvE (!) exploit. If it were a PvP thing (like the naked bolster or win trading) I would completely agree. That would impact other people negatively.
But the funny thing is that the more people are using a PvE exploit, the more useful PuG runs you will get, since people will have better gear on average…
Granted, there might be some impact on the economy, but i don’t really see how it could be substantial especially considering you can’t trade the new Mats on the GTN for some reason.

actually found a thing that last 4 or 5 hm fps runs i did, whole group had 198 set chest alltime, so like i said, they are gonna ban entire impside XD
and still, i dont see anything bad in getting an extra piece of gear for free, counting ive done it several times in regular hm, just in 8m. so if i’ll have to use an elevator to 25 floor or to go up on foot – ill totally use the lift, sorry.

Just don’t start complaining that you have nothing to do now that you’re on the top floor and don’t start expecting other people to already be there. That’s where the issues really start as I see it.

i dont complain, i just found it funny about people complaining as well as how many people used it, personally, i dont really care.

No I was going along with your analogy, not saying you were complaining here. Endgame raiding is of the progression type in SWTOR. So if you progress too quickly with gear because of an exploit you might find much sooner than others that you are out of things to do. At that moment I would hope you are not going to complain about a situation you chose yourself.

that have some point, but i dont think few gear pieces do a difference. i did it for easy money mostly so i craft things and sell good (via mats i got) cuz a a trader i always take every opportunity to reach 1 billion in this game, tho im pretty close to it. even if you cleared all the stuf game still offeres you shit ton of things to do – PVP, achieves, just some soial fun etc. or you can just go out and take a fresh breath outside

Well I don’t know how big the effect is going to be because I do not know how many people are involved and to what extent they abused the exploit. I am not trying to defend either side because I understand both sides of the discussion but it seems that if I try to create understand for one of the sides people automatically assume that I agree with them. The reality is that it’s against the agreement and there will be some punishment given out by BW. How many people get punished and to what extent I do not know. I do think however that if you let people break rules without any consequences it will cause a lot of peope to lose faith in the game. I do not know but my guess is that the amount of people who are unhappy with the exploiters may very well be a much bigger group than the group of exploiters. That’s where BW have to decide what matters to them.

Firstly letting exploiters go unpunished is exactly what has happened so far. Just look at the Nefra exploit. It had the same if not a higher severity. You could get l55 NiM gear with any old level 50 char. Only difference is it took a bit longer than Ravagers. That bug has been used for months and there was not a single ban because of it.
Regarding the percentage of people which used it, we’re all just guessing. It might be a small percentage of overall players, but i’m pretty sure it’s a quite substantial percentage of subbed active players…

Well there are various reasons why such exploits are a bad thing for the game. But I think what keeps this discussion going more than anything is the attitude and finger pointing of the exploiters. That’s what disturbs me the most. I mean it was wrong, just admit and eat the consequences. But no people are justifiying it calling out that BW made them do it. That is just so much worse than the actual exploit.

That it is wrong is very much a point in question.
Is it against Biowares rules of conduct? Yes.
Should you take any action taken against your account like a man (input whatever other gender you want)? Yes, definitly.
Is it morally wrong? I do not think so.

Well and that’s where the difference is between you and others. Other people do see it as morally wrong. There is a reason why it’s an exploit. Now, I do not mean to say that you have to agree with them, but when it comes to morality, it’s not strange that people get heated about it. One of the main words that keeps coming back when you look up the word exploit is the word unfair. So that indicates there is a general consensus about the morality of using an exploit. You see, it may be just a game but it’s also about interaction with other people. And as much as the game is not real, the people playing it very much are and they tend to want to be treated fairly.
It’s really the same type of discussion as ganking for example. If you think it’s a douchebag thing to do then it’s linked to your sense of morals and values. If you think it’s ok, you don’t, but don’t be surprised if a lot of people disagree with you. Personally I don’t think everybody has to have the same morals, but it is good to understand there can be different moral stances on the same issue and just because you think it’s morally okay, doesn’t mean it is for the rest of the world, or even the majority of players.
As soon as you’re not in a single player game but have more people to deal with than yourself, there has to be a set of rules or it becomes chaos. Whether you agree with them or not from a moral point of view doesn’t mean that there isn’t a point to having a set of rules. And rules require enforcement. Just a simple reality.

Hence my point about it being a PvE exploit. It doesn’t hurt anyone, in fact it will probably make running pugs easier. But well, you’re definitly right, we’re talking about morals and not fact and as such the discussion might be pointless anyway.

Yep, there cannot be a winner in such discussions. We can hope for some understanding but that’s about as good as it gets. I understand why people get upset about it and I can also understand why others don’t care about it. Doesn’t mean I agree with either viewpoint. What I do find more difficult to understand is people who say they don’t care about this game but still play it, even on the official forum which means they are still paying a sub. That just seems like a dumbass thing to do, to spend money on something you hate or don’t care about…could be just me, but either they’re lying to us or they’re lying to themselves about something.

if it doesnt effect you, then the only reason you are saying anything is to point fingers and show everyone how much more moral you are than any despicable exploiter could ever be…try shaving that manstache as well, might get people to actually listen to you and not hide when your avatar pops up :/

There is no reason to start ad hominems here. It has nothing to do with the topic and just indicates you have nothing useful to say. If you don’t like how I look that’s fine but it has no place in this discussion. Talk about taking the moral high ground. I also do not require people to agree with me. I do hope that people can understand why people get upset about different things but understanding is not agreeing.

Spot on. Some of my Guildies invited me to join them in this exploit, I politely declined because I don’t believe in taking things I haven’t earned.

I don’t hold it against them for taking advantage of it, they are free to do as they wish and must follow their own conscience . However, as you say, all the pathetic self justifications we see scrawled on forums reeks of tiny, selfish minds scrambling to assuage their guilt

i used the exploid, and im very happy that i have done it, the first time i used it, some guildmates rush me into, i didnt know whats going, what they where talking about, i just follow them, the fith time i did it, i was so happy, it was like christmas all over again, since the launch i never been so happy, thxs BW for this gift, i have been playing for a long time this game and i was getting boring, i was getting sick to go and go with pub raids that cant pass the second boss of DF SM 16 MAN, i was sick of all my guildmates getting the good geard and i always get the shit, i was sick of going week after week after week ony to get one set bonus piece of armor per week, i was getting sick of the game, this beatiful xploid that you give us, give me hope again, exaiment, and i cant stop laughing of all the noobs that didnt used, if i get banned it will be a good end for me, i will leave very happy i have been playing for over 3 years this game and you give me a happy ending thxs so much

and for the haters eat my dick! you are just mad because you didnt use the xploid! you hate us because you ain’tus!

Wath an good thing we aint u ! Ore ur lame guildmates …. Plz put an video of urself on youtube so we can se u cry next week IF u get à ban plz plz i bet u look like Justin Bieber ?

and if i dont get ban? and who is this Justin Bieber never heard of him, maybe another gay/porn star that you like or you have imaginations with him?

Exploiters are spoiled brat cowards who probably never worked a day in their life. Shine a light on these cockroaches and they scatter. Hope they get banned good. Nobody wants losers like that.

you hate us because you ain’tus! besides nobody is gonna belive that you didnt do it, must of guys that are readind this post, is because they did it and want to know whats is going on, and good to know thats this is a work for you, for me is a game and im happy with my xploid money, armor, and my new mounts and loot!

Ocho is a presumptuous, pompous ass. Be proud of your in-game achievements, for those are probably the only ones you have “earned” in your life.

I’m a software dev and I make quite a lot of money working 9-10 hours a day and I did the SM exploit twice on each of my lvl 60 toons. I would have done it in HM but none of my guildies/friends had a lock-out. Do I regret it? NO! Would I do it again knowing the consequences? Probably not.

The thing that burns me the most is BW’s cowardice in this whole matter. The company I work for runs its business based on 5 values: integrity, passion for customer experience, expertise&excellence, empowerment&accountability. Where’s BW’s passion for customer experience?!?!? Do they hold themselves accountable for selling me a broken product?!?!? They closed their eyes, and hid under the covers in hopes that no one would notice. This entire thing could have been handled a lot better:
1) Disable the Ravagers op until properly fixed
or
2) Send a message to all accounts warning that the exploit is known and exploiters will be banned permanently upon using it.

Neither myself nor anyone in my company will ever blame our clients for using software we sold them in unintended ways. If we know about some issues when we release a version, we fucking tell them so they can take steps to protect themselves. We don’t deliver a product that, if used in a certain way, might damage client’s systems/databases and not say anything about it.

As for the stupid analogy people keep posting(stealing a car that has its keys in the ignition and others like it), the people who exploited did not steal anyone else’s property. That analogy cannot be applied here. We payed for the game. It was sold to us with all its “features”(lag, ability delay, broken ops, broken gf). Did we get a warning that the Revan fight was bugged? Did we get a warning that the Ravagers final boss was bugged(still is)? Did we get a warning that the Rishi datacrons were bugged(and still are)? NO. As long as these issues were not addressed at launch, they work as planned and that’s what I paid for and I can use them however I see fit.

And don’t start saying that exploiters violated the ToS. Most players have violated at least one of the rules and regulations in the ToS(see the naming rules)

I just want this whole thing to be over, one way or the other. If I get banned, then that’s it. I will not be returning to the game because I don’t have the time and energy to get to the point I am now. As a matter of fact, I’ve already cancelled my subscription.

Actually all the game stuff is property of the company you are just renting it from them that’s how they can take everything away because it never belonged to you in the 1st place.

“Intellectual” property, the hard work of creation.

Maybe “Intellectual” is to hard a word for you? It means “relating to thinking, the mind, logic, creativity”

dont see where intellectual property was even mentioned, but ok…think all ya like, more power to ya…again, finger pointers making insults and presumptions about others they dont even know…got any mom insults there kid? lol

DERP, Intellectual Property IS a type of “property” (thing which can be owned, sold, leased, bequeathed, etc..) And Palm you are the one who mentioned it.

Mike, of course any and all in game items are subject to Intellectual Property because they had to be created. Effort had to be exerted in design in coding.

By the same logic that the carpenter has property of the table he fashioned from wood, the game designer (or company he works for) has property of the design and implementation of elements in the game world. You make it, you own it!

DERP! intellectual property was never mentioned, even by my derpy self, scroll up plz…and lol i do pay for that property, but it seems more property was left to the use of the subscriber than intended, hence the problem at hand for “moral” gamers…i will make sure to sit in the corner and contemplate my decisions, cause it really does effect my quality of life sir 😀

My the stupid is strong with this one….

You said:
“property? rofl someone has been on the game too long and thinks this is real life”

To which I replied that Intellectual Property IS A TYPE OF PROPERTY.

🙂

as is the moron with this one…i replied to a property comment, you replied and said intellectual…i replied “when was intellectual mentioned?” wow dude…get over yourself, bye now troll

i guess intellectual to you means dont read and dont pay attention to a thread…*thumbsup brah! lol

lol you even quoted me! not once did i mention intellectual property, i was speaking to Shaun of course…fucking troll meister

As much as you try to sound smart, ingame items hardly belong to the category of IP, at least not in this context.

Nonsense. No matter what the ToS says, they have to provide the services you payed for. In Europe there were lawsuits about exactl that ans the courts declared parts of the EULA and the ToS as invalid, because of that.

That’s in the EU if they want to shutdown the EU servers over that they can but the company is in America and protected by those laws as well.

dont worry. Shaun is just a kissass in all his posts.
keep hanging on to that nut there buddy, the left one.

el Ocho is just scared, he used too, now his ass is mad raging because he is gonna ge banned, probalbly he xplooited more than any of us.

XPLOID XPLOID I LOVE MY XPLOID and for the record i did nefra XPLOID with seven toons!

You could repeat the final boss of Ravagers and (TOS?) on HM, ignoring the lockout. This gets people with full 198 gear with the set bonus in one sitting. Plus, the new crafting mats dropped from the final boss. Guilds also stocked up on those. The worst part was when guilds were selling runs for the 198 gear.

1.Taking advantage of the exploit damages the community. If you use an exploit that gains you an implant or 2, clearly just using the games own mechanical limitations like the “Nefra”, well people will choose to use it or not, but it does not effect anyone else. When within the first month of launch, certain guilds have players in full 198’s, then that’s a problem. There is no question that this is morally questionable to do. Everyone KNOWS that. Cheating to get your gear while others are more interested in actually EARNING their gear, trivializes that pursuit. Gearing for HM/NiM content is the purpose of endgame PVE content and a core feature of the game. If you make games, than you should be able to understand why people in the community, and Bioware would have a problem with this.
2.Name one goddamn MMORPG expansion that hasn’t had it’s share of bugs.
3. What are your holidays like? I think that even if I worked for Bioware, during the Christmas season, I would be a little more inclined to take my vacation time.
4. If you sold software that if used the wrong way, or not how it was intended, could sabotage NATO satellites, would you not blame your customer for using it that way? If someone uses a chainsaw to kill someone, rather than to cut wood, do you think the company “would not have a problem” with them using it incorrectly?
5. Do you have deadlines for release on product? EA has a tendency to never flex on their delivery dates, The scale of MMO’s must escape you, regardless of your expertise, we are not talking about programs that draft pipelines, or organize websites. These things are extremely touchy and require lots of hardware and maintenance, it is not as simple as say releasing a single player fighting game.
6.Thank you for unsubbing, quite clearly, “Integrity” is not a company policy you take to heart. Maybe you should look up the definition, and that might inform you on why CHEATERS should be punished.

stfu man, you dont know me or any of the exploiters :/ your comment is so dam ignorant its laughable…i play a video game, doesnt effect you or anyone else…got gear for my toons and my friends toons because of a loophole, never made creds by selling it to another player or for crafting purposes…dont be so pretentious and stand there behind your comp screen pretending to have never taken a loophole before…just stfu pretender…i work 60 hrs a week and in the gym when i can, active in my community as well…yes, selling drugs (sarcasm) cause that is what you and every other finger pointer is thinking…time to step off the high horse/band wagon and get a clue lol

lol what do you care?
Are you upset because other players have better gear than you and faster?
if anything people will take advantage of people who can craft gear and progress in PvE

Next up is Ban-Gate 2015. They’ll have some bug with the bans so it bans some people who didn’t do the exploit, and some who they tried to ban will mysteriously still be able to log in even though they were banned. And it somehow will give them a bonus deco and free mount when they do. Six weeks after learning of their banning error, Bioware will double the ban for anyone who chose to login even though they were notified of the ban. And it will be quadruple the ban if they used the deco and mount.

when the tyranny becomes law the rebellion becomes a right,! long live the men and womens thats have the courage to xploid the the xploiters of BW!

My opinion on the matter at hand is that anyone who willingly and willfully uses an exploit does so at their own risk and has to accept the consequences of said actions, regardless of what that action may be including and up to perma banned. In every mmo i’ve played over the last 15 years exploiters have paid for their actions and there is no reason why this situation should be any different.

Except this is Bioware we are talking about. A company so stupid they ignore real problem players in the game who have been reported time and time and fucking time again. A company so greedy they released an expansion laced with bugs INCLUDING AN EXPLOIT THEY WERE TOLD ABOUT IN PTS. A conpany so slow it took them over a month to patch said exploit rather then just disable the op. No Bioware talk a big game but history had shown them to be cowards who trip and break their knees when time comes to walk the walk.

Any Bioware failure actually doesn’t justifies violation of ToS.

I despise all that lynch mob, that cries for blood and vengeance for exploiters, and tries to impose their virtual morality to others, but the fact is – using exploit breaks ToS, which you agreed to follow; using exploit is conscious and voluntary act, and when someone does that he must realise that such actions may be punished.

And again the fact they didn’t punished people, who participated in previous exploits, such as nefra and pvp trading doesn’t justifies violation of ToS.

So I agree with MM on that.

IM FUCKING MAD FUKKK MAD FUUUUCK HOW DARE! THIS FUCKERS OF BW TO TAKE OUT MY EXPLOID MY EXDPLODI!!! FUUUUCK YOU BIODRONES! YOU TAKE AWAY MY PRECIOUS LOOT EXPLOID AND NOW YOU ARE GONNA BANNED ME FUUUCUUCK YOU! AND PUT THAT DAM EXPLOID BACK ONLINE AGAIN I NEED TO DO IT FOR TWO MORE WEEKS SO ALL MY TOONS GET THE GEARD I NEED! THE 198 NEED IT NEED IT MY PRESIUS LOOT!

AND IF I GET BANNED WELL FUCK IS BEEEN A FUN RIDE!

Whoa, gear down there big shifter.

On a side note, the only thing I can think of when I read this quote is the guy from Clerks singing ‘Berserker”

If Oreo’s gives me an extra oreo I’m not supposed to eat it because it’s morally incorrect and it violates their terms? The company sets a precedent which a judge can and will use as law. Public policy was that many people used it therefore making the tos void in a jury trial because all of the accused peers have done it as well. The company made the mistake of giving me an extra oreo therefore I can do with that extra oreo what I choose. On the flip side if they give me less than what is expressed on their product I have all right to sue for what I have not been expressly given because I paid for at least the complete product hence making me a customer. If I get more that’s a bonus to me if I get less it is the companies duty to reimburse me what they have expressed because they are legally bound by that expressed statement. This is why “exploiters” should not be punished in any way. The devs on the other hand should be fired or replaced by the company for giving out free Oreo’s to everyone and their mom. To all the self righteous people clamoring for permanent bans and to those saying the game would be better off without all the people that used the “exploit”. I must say be careful what you wish for say all the “exploiters” get permanently banned their friends are most likely going to go also. Meaning, less and less money for new content and when it comes to the point where you are doing the same exact thing again and again and can’t find anyone to run anything with you will leave the game as well.

i would venture to guess those fingers that are being pointed at all the exploiters would have creamy filling alllll over them if given an extra oreo 🙂 not to mention a few extra ounces of milk to go with it…

if you give and extra oreo tha i have already eat it, how are you gonna take it from me are you make me vomit my oreo BAN ME BAN ME!!! but dont take my fith OREO!

they didn’t “give an extra oreo”. In this case the reward was gotten by doing something out of the norm – entering into an op with someone who is completely locked out to go claim loot. That is in no way standard operating procedure or something that you’d stumble upon playing the game normally.

If you knew ahead of time that Oreo’s accidentally put an extra oreo in its packages and you knew the exact place and amount available. Would you not purchase those containing the extras ? That is not normally going to a random store and buying a random oreo package but most people willing and able to purchase the packages with the extra oreo would. The company made the mistake and should be accountable because they sent out the product as complete . The company would not go to every one of the people who received an extra oreo and force them to vomit it back out. They would punish those responsible for giving the extra Oreo’s because they are responsible.

Just because a thousand people break a law doesn’t invalidate the law, wtf did you get your logic from?

Public policy manifests the common sense and common conscience of the citizens as a whole that extends throughout the state and is applied to matters of the public. Therefore, making the act of said thousand logical and reasonable. In the case of the “exploiters” the same legal principles apply.The tos is invalid because the vast majority of players who had access to it,did it making the tos void or unconscionable.