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SWTOR Operations and Flashpoints in Fallen Empire

SWTOR Operation designer George Smith discusses operations and flashpoints in the upcoming expansion.

I’m George Smith, Senior Designer in charge of Operations and Flashpoints and I am here to talk to you a little bit about what Knights of the Fallen Empire has in store for you.

First, a little bit of a backstory about the current state of group content in Star Wars™: The Old Republic™. As you level your character, you have the opportunity to play through quite a few Flashpoints for gear and a break from your story. As you continue to play and progress in the game and pass the level range of those Flashpoints, you no longer play them, as they become obsolete. Similarly, due to the nature of gear progression or an increased level cap, as we release new Operations we continue to make older Operations obsolete. What this means is that we have a situation where we have a lot of group content, that many players don’t get an opportunity to play through. We believe that all players should be able to enjoy all the content in the game, and have exciting experiences available to them every week, and that is what we intend to bring you with Knights of the Fallen Empire!

For Flashpoints, we have made quite a few changes to give you more options on what to play, and how to play them. For starters, all of the Flashpoints which are important to the core story have had a Solo Mode added, similar to what we did for the Forged Alliances Flashpoints. Also, those Solo Modes are repeatable, so you can play through them again if you want! These Solo Mode Flashpoints use a new level sync system that lowers your character’s level and power to the level of the Flashpoint, ensuring that you’re experiencing the content at the difficulty level intended – you never have to skip story content because you’re over-leveled for it!

Next, most of our Story Mode Flashpoints have been converted to Tactical, meaning you can play them at any level between 10 and 65! These Flashpoints also bolster your character, so you never have to worry about being under-geared or under-leveled, and can play with friends of varying levels. As an added bonus, each player can also receive loot specific to their Class and their non-bolstered level, so running these Flashpoints is always beneficial.

Hard Mode Flashpoints are getting love as well! All Hard Mode Flashpoints, including the Red Reaper for the first time, will be available starting at Level 50 up to Level 65. There will be a small Bolster to allow different level ranges to play together, but you’ll need to bring a balanced group with a Tank and Healer just as with Hard Mode Flashpoints currently. Just like the new Tactical Flashpoints, each player can get their own individual loot suited for their class from entirely new sets of gear. This will provide the perfect jumping off point for getting you ready to tackle Operations!

Operations are a larger change, in that every single Operation in SWTOR will be raised to level 65! Every Operation will drop a new tier of Elder Game gear, as well as new vanity rewards such as Mounts, Vehicles, and Decorations for your Stronghold. Story Mode Operations will be playable from Level 50 to Level 65, and will grant a Bolster to ensure everyone in your group is prepared! Soa will once again be the ancient Rakatan Warlord who threatens to take over the Galaxy, with the challenge to match!

We are also making several Quality of Life improvements to Operations in the Group Finder to make a better, more engaging experience. Each day, a new Story Mode Operation will be available in Group Finder, and will all drop relevant gear for your character.

Nightmare Mode will also be available for all the Operations that had it previously, and will reward the same as the highlighted Hard Mode, as all as all the unique mounts and titles available currently.

For Hard Mode Operations, one Operation per week will be highlighted to give even greater rewards! Ultimately, the goal is that you will have a reason to visit all of our Operations and will feel rewarded for doing so.

We know that many players love our Operations and look forward to the introduction of new challenges, however with Knights of the Fallen Empire there will not be any new Operations. We felt it was important to first address some of the issues with our Elder Game before moving on to new content. These changes will allow us to be more flexible with how we release new content, as the content no longer needs to be tied to a new gear tier or level cap increase. Even without new Operations, though, you will have a whole lot of content to play at the level cap. Let’s go over everything you will be able to play in Knights of the Fallen Empire!

Solo Mode Flashpoints
These Flashpoints are repeatable, and made to be played solo or with a Companion. Your character will be adjusted down to the appropriate level so that you are experiencing the Flashpoint at the level and difficulty that is intended.

  • Black Talon
  • Esseles
  • Boarding Party
  • Taral V
  • The Foundry
  • Maelstrom Prison
  • Battle of Ilum
  • The False Emperor
  • Assault on Tython
  • Korriban Incursion
  • Manaan Research Facility
  • Legacy of the Rakata
  • Blood Hunt
  • Battle of Rishi

Tactical Flashpoints
These 4-Player Flashpoints are available from level 10-65. Your character will be Bolstered so that friends of any level can play together!

  • Hammer Station
  • Athiss
  • Mandalorian Raiders
  • Cademimu
  • Red Reaper
  • Kuat Drive Yards
  • Czerka Labs
  • Czerka Core Meltdown
  • Korriban Incursion
  • Assault on Tython
  • Depths of Manaan
  • Legacy of the Rakata
  • Blood Hunt
  • Battle of Rishi

Hard Mode Flashpoints
These Level 65 Flashpoints are designed to present more of a challenge to players. They provide a small Bolster, but still require a full 4-Player group, including a Tank and a Healer.

  • Black Talon
  • Esseles
  • Boarding Party
  • Taral V
  • The Foundry
  • Maelstrom Prison
  • Kaon Under Siege
  • Lost Island
  • Battle of Ilum
  • The False Emperor
  • Hammer Station
  • Athiss
  • Mandalorian Raiders
  • Red Reaper
  • Cademimu
  • Kuat Drive Yards
  • Czerka Labs
  • Czerka Core Meltdown
  • Korriban Incursion
  • Assault on Tython
  • Depths of Manaan
  • Legacy of the Rakata
  • Blood Hunt
  • Battle of Rishi

These 8 and 16-Player Operations are all available at level 65 in both Story and Hard modes. A different Story Mode Operation will be available in the Group Finder each day.

  • Eternity Vault (5 bosses)
  • Karagga’s Palace (5 bosses)
  • Explosive Conflict (4 bosses)
  • Terror From Beyond (5 bosses)
  • Scum and Villainy (7 bosses)
  • Golden Fury (1 boss)
  • Dread Fortress (5 bosses)
  • Dread Palace (5 bosses)
  • Ravagers (5 bosses)
  • Temple of Sacrifice (5 bosses)

As you can see, while leveling your character, and when your character reaches level 65, there is a whole Galaxy out there available to you. So whether you want to take the journey alone, or with 15 of your closest friends, we can’t wait for you to get your hands on Knights of the Fallen Empire!

May the Force™ be with you!



By Dulfy

MMO guide writer and blogger. Currently playing and covering SWTOR, GW2, and TSW.

764 replies on “SWTOR Operations and Flashpoints in Fallen Empire”

I know people will complain about there not being new ops here but really this is a great overhaul for the game.

i agree on this, especially with the changes they did to some of the classes, ie: longer cooldowns on interrupts, have fun in NIM DF on second boss lol.

So progression is now going to be the same content that has been around since launch… Great..

not gonna lie in my opinion the flashpoint part is stupid,i enjoy being able to solo hm 55 fps for credits and decos

Well at least you’re not like those guys who are four months in advance trying to maximize comms who don’t even have gear yet….

The best news we’ve ever gotten in an entire year, and you’re cancelling?
I’ll respect your decision to cancel, but can you elaborate as to why?

To me, the main problem I had with SWTOR was how all the work they put into all these flashpoints would go to waste every time they up the level cap.
Finally we get to fight Revan again and do the HK fight on hard mode. Finally we get to fight Malgus again and have it be a challenge. All these great flashpoints and fun (in my opinion) mechanics were just…. wasted whenever a level cap happened.
When SOR was released, we got 4 (and then two more for 6) new hard mode flashpoints. Well… how long did those last?
We also got two new operations. Those didn’t last long either…. in fact, the raiding guilds up and left because there was nothing to do!
My problem with SWTOR has always been that all the content would stop being relevant and all the man hours that they put into raids and flashpoints would be wasted as no one would do them anymore. Now that’s no longer the case. Once again, we can fight the dread council on nightmare where the stakes are actually high, and one mistake can lead to a wipe. Once more we can fight the Terror From Beyond on Nightmare and get a kill with the boss in enrage and one sentinel remaining in GBTF pushing that last 2%.

Raiding content is what I live for, and I’m perfectly fine with doing old content again as long as it’s relevant.

I’m not. I ran that content already. I want something new. If I want to run old content, I can go run old content any time I want.

lol, with who?
Can you really find 8 players who want to do Explosive Conflicts on Nightmare? Can you really find 8 players who want to do SnV on Nightmare?
I sure as hell can’t.

Yes, you can. At least on RE I see a few EC NiM runs every week. As for SnV NiM, yeah, groups happen, but they require achievements to let you join. And that won’t change. New players still won’t be allowed to join HM and NiM runs unless they have the achievement.

And that’s the problem.
There are plenty of players with the potential and the desire to run those pieces of content and they can’t find a raid who wants them because the raids that exist already have their 8 players. Those that lose players just dissolve without looking for replacements, and no one ever wants to do the old content.
Why should a raider who has come from running heroics in Warcraft or EX/Savage in FFXIV or whatever your MMO equivalent, who joins SWTOR for the first time, be denied progression into old nightmare content?

You think that problem won’t be exactly the same with the Ops recycled?

It might be.
But at the same time players who complained that this game lacked endgame will definitely come back if they want to do all these ops and prefer quantity over having new content that will literally last a month. If that actually happens, then there will be plenty of new statics forming.

Players who complain about lack of end game will not be swayed by running the same content that they already defeated, recycled to a higher level.

They will if they liked the game’s aspects that stood above other MMO’s, which still exist.
Look… all I’m saying is this: How long did the 6 HM FPs and 2 Operations last again when SOR was released?

Exactly, so how long do you think running those same FPs and Ops yet again is going to last?

What do you want them to do, come out with four new operations and 12 hard mode flash points, all new?

At minimum there should be a new Operation with 4-6 bosses every 6 months. And 1-3 new FPs every 3 months.

Part of the fun of doing progression in ops is beating new bosses. Fighting old bosses boosted to the new level is just repeating that old challenge. It’s not just about collecting new gear. It’s the same previous story at the same previous challenge. Just with new things dropping.

First off, you can do most of the old content with 4 players or less. Grab a couple friends/guildmates, maybe fill in with a PuG or two off the fleet, and you are good to go.

Ok so hold up, you are telling me you can four man Terror From Beyond Nightmare?
Wow, you must be so good…

Again, I said most. Do I really have to write out a list for you of what Ops can be done with what number of players?

When you say most, I’m assuming you mean anything below SnV, which SnV was basically 178 (IIRC) for BiS, and everyone’s in 198s.

The order was
the 3 50 ops
Then TFB
and above that, DF and DP….
I’m making perfect sense… you’re misunderstanding me.

You’re not looking hard enough then. Lots of end game players still like to do the old NiM content for mounts / decos / titles. I pretty regularly run DF NiM for wings, talking about starting a DP NiM group with a few people, and do SnV / TFB NiM on occasion too. The older stuff like EC / KP / EV can easily be killed without a full 8 man op, I’ve done 4/5 NiM EC before 2 manned, and kephess with 3.

Then you’re not with the right people. Hell, there are SnV and EC NiM pugs every night on Jedi Covenant and we’re not even a big server.

okay ….. while this is nice that you can do EV and get actually relevant gear, it’s still nothing new. Sure for new players it’s all cool. but those of use who’ve been around for at least a few years won’t be as thrilled at just having all the same old stuff scaled up lol

I wish this announcement was much earlier. I remembered going off on SWTOR for basically leaving raiders in the dust with the patch in the future.
Now I see that we don’t have to worry, and now can look forward to a future with raids in SWTOR, even if none of them will be new.
It will be kind of like how at 50 FFXIV had a crapton of dungeons and raids to do, all of them relevant.

How is there a future for raids in SWTOR? With “no new operations in KotFE”, they’ve essentially indicated no new group content at all. KotFE isn’t a single expansion, but a series of “chapters” that won’t be ending.

Yeah bruv, operations are gone forever from this game, they’re also scraping warzones. Flashpoints and GSF are next on the list. I also heard they plan on introducing a system they call 1 player 1 instance – basically a single player per instance of a planet, doesn’t matter if it’s imp or pub. Mobs won’t be respawning anymore too. Oh yeah, and if you don’t play your character for more than 3 days, he starves to death.

Operations are pretty much gone forever, we probably won’t see one for another year or so, how long has it been since we saw anything new for GSF or warzones? They’re pretty much already gone.

As I said time and time again, remember how much time Ravagers and ToS lasted? Like… less than two months….

There is no way in Hell KoFE does not have OPs, keep in mind all we know is that the 1st 13 chapters don’t have them.
We have no idea how many chapter total so saying they won’t add any later is jumping the gun.
Yes there will be no OPs this year, that is literally the only thing we can say for certain.
There will be OPs down the line, that is far more likelly then no new OPs at all.

So let’s see… Instead of 8 stores, or 2 stories, we have 1 story. And for group content, they’ve made most of it solo content, and simply added more HP and damage to the old content. I had hope, now dashed. So long to another MMO – welcome to another on-line single player game that is resembling a Zynga Facebook product.

Cool without new ops coz that give them more time to create new one not so shity like Ravs and ToS.
But they could already give us some info about gear specific on lvl 65 coz I do not think they just leave gear from current content.

“With Knights of the Fallen Empire there will not be any new Operations.” What makes you think that they will take time creating any new ones when KotFE isn’t a single expansion, but rather a series of “chapters” that will continue on for the foreseeable future?

If there was going to be a new Operation before July of 2016, they would have said so. They may add a new one after that point, but its pretty obvious there will not be a new Operation for at least a year.

They announced on day one that KotFE is only 16 chapters that will all be released in the span of less than a year. Know what you’re talking about before spewing your mindless drivel.

They also said that the first 16 ep. is season one and they plan to do a season two after. So maybe you should know what you are talking about.

Because someday they will have to do it. It’s pretty normal coz only story will not make evolve this game forever

No new OPs ?
Bad Decision BW. A lot of players will leave, most of them are fed up doing that old ops again and again……

So u wanna get new ops so damn crap bugged as Ravagers and Temple of Sacrifice? Which are still bugged as hell BTW… Nice

Again and again? When was the last time you did Denova HM, Asa HM and so on, except for achievements? I dont think many will leave, because for the raiders, not those craving for new content, but those who want viable hardmode content, it doesnt matter if its old or new. Most of the mechanics repeat anyway. I would love to start all over the raids again getting new gear in every one of them. I dont mind if its old content as long as it is viable content. The fact that the rise of level caps destroys old content is a shame and I’m glad they bring the content back.

I mean, 8 old OPs made a challenge again or 1 new OP to be farmed for 1 year just to throw it away afterwards ?

Lol, you obviously do not know any raiders then. The year+ of Dread killed almost all of the progression guilds in SWTOR.

Yeah, no.
Only a handful of hardcore raiders may leave and I do mean “may”.
Because the main attraction to SWTOR was always the story, not the WOW cloned combat system, the Trinity based gameplay, the older then dirt engine or the okay graphics.
It’s the story and the “Star Wars” name that keeps the light on, OPs? An after thought, much like PvP.

No new raids? Lmfao. Who do they think they are kidding LOL. This game may as well slit its own wrists come December and hope Disney mercifully buys them out.

Wow seriously? Raising old content level to compensate? This game is dying a little by little with every stupid announcement.

So you gave people 12xp to create an army of noobs who don’t know how to play their class and have no raid awarness and only ever get through lower level ops because they are carried by other players and then you scale all operations to level 65? *slow clap*

Welcome to a world of frustration where PUGs no longer work and it’s incredibly difficult to get into an ops group and all ops take hours upon hours of wipes to run (and leave unfinished) unless you’re in a well coordinated progression group with voice chat, which, sadly, isn’t an option for everyone.

It was good to have lower level operations – you could go with a group of fewer people or have a quicker run and get to experience story content for which you would otherwise need either friends in high places (who would vouche for you if you’re new to the content) or already own the kind of gear it drops in order to get in, which makes the rewards… not very rewarding unless you really are only looking to have that achievment on your list.

Omg… Just imagine all those newly “formed” 65 going to Ops, causing the entire party to wipe… Over and over again… “Taunt??? Cleanse??? Can you explain what that is pls???” LOOOOOOL

You forgot the part where they come with too much Endurance and too little of the stats they need.

I don’t mind those half as much as I mind the ones that go “i know the fights lol” and then after you wipe three times on adds, you see that they’re constantly breaking CCs on interrogators, cut you off when they get simplification, pick up the wrong crystal, stand in stupid and die even after you battle rez them after they’ve died the first time… and then they win the roll for the dread throne.

If only we all got rewards for doing content, but no. We’re now going to have a harder time running ops and ha ha… good luck with your rolls.

And you know… Most people complain about tanks and healers… In my experience the worst kind of class in Ops are dps! Because they are NOT used to actually thinking, they watch their rotations here on Dulfy, practice on their dummy, and think they’re pretty bad-ass… Nope mate, you’re just bad loool… Then of course you get low dps ’cause the minute they see their health bars decreasing they panic, and then it’s always the tank’s or the healer’s fault… lol

I’m fed up redoing old content due to lack of anything to do in the game. And now… more old content. Okay, hope some people will have fun with it.

Not really all that upset, in Kotor there was swoop bike racing game (which for argument’s sake I going am to relate this to ops) which was a fun minigame. But it never was the main reason people bought kotor. It was the story and roleplay that made that game become a hit. Same deal here. OPs and warzones are fun, but at the end of the game, this is a game with a focus on story. So take it or leave it.

That’s not what they pitched when they made this game an MMO. Wave by to the mass exodus of the few remaining MMO players with this update. They should just rename the game KOTOR 3 at this point.

First off I have been doing Op and PvP from the Launch of this game, but I came mainly for the story. And I think there are probably more people like me who would take more story over One or Two New Ops. The point is that in MMO’s today the hardcore raiders are a dying breed; and it’s not just SWTOR that is going for the casual play, Bioware is just using Story to get them.

I don’t completely disagree. I used to argue this point to people more hardcore at rading then me. I also played through all 8 classes and the xpacs and enjoyed most of the story. Problem is the story is getting shorter and shorter. They act like this will be more, but I’ll believe it when I see it. It looks like they’re just breaking the story into a bunch of tiny chunks to keep stringing subs along. Besides, when there’s only one story line I can just watch that on YouTube for free.

Would rather them retool old stuff and get it working rather than putting out new raids that don’t work. We’ve all seen that happen and we’ve never liked it. Get everyone up to speed, THEN make the new stuff.

Read the article. Brain says to me “Ooooooh darlin…they gonna be mad!” Gets to comments. “See suga? They mad. They all so mad.” Yes brain…they mad.

We can all admit that the solo modes of forged allience flashpoints are a step forward. Now, they can expand upon that. Also, meapproves of how they’re allowing the eldergame for 65 to settle in before they release a new op.

sad day.. seems like its time to quit again.. no new ops.. just the same STory content we been doing FOR YEARS…… and gonna be the same lame ass story for all 22 toons i have so yeah.. thnx but no thnx you can keep your whacked out free expansion

That’s a lot of toons. I don’t think the story or content is the problem. I think it might be having so many toons. I’d would definitely be burned out, too, if I had to run so many toons through the same stuff. I hate having to do it on the 11 I have. If I knew earlier, what I do now, I think I would have just made one of each class on the Imp side, the way I did for my Rep side. I mean, you need to have at least 8 (one of each side/class). That way you at least get the entire story for the game. I hardly ever use my three extra Imp guys, though. Why so many toons, if you don’t mind my asking? Do you get to run them all a lot?

like my name says pt4life, 5 pt and a vanguard just on 1 server.. and yes i play them all do hm and NiM runs with every one of them every week

That’s a lot of game time. That in itself, would burn me out on any game. I have to take a break from time to time or I get burned out on some games, especially when I’m playing MMO’s. My buddy just got me hooked on Fallout. That was a mistake. Now I’ve been addicted to Fallout 3 for the last couple weeks. Next up will be the Mass Effect trilogy. I might peak out of my cave by the time they release the Knights of the Fallen Empire expansion. :-p

its really only a few hours each evening.. diff raid groups diff lockouts, excess to help get people mounts and cosmetic gear as well from NiM runs, and two of my guilds do sale runs too so gotta have toons for that

This is some welcome news. Finally able to do KDY as a Tactical above lvl 55. You can’t queue for it past lvl 56 right now, and I can never find anyone to run it. Can only solo it with my main Imp and Rep toons, so it’s always a pain with my others. Sounds good about the Battle of Ilum and False Emperor FP’s, as well.

It’s hard enough to get a queue to pop as is, and some of the FPs can be story-relevant (the Revan-related ones, etc), and plus w/ 12x bonus it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to even stop and queue… so this is a welcome change.

what are you talking about this is terrible news for every fan of end game content.. this is just bad in every way..

The only good point is actually KDY, since every other FP out there can be soloed RIGHT NOW. Granted, some are difficult ( I have a hard time soloing Lost Island), but Battle of Ilum and The False Emperor? you can solo that on a lv 60 right now, no big deal… SM or HM…

Hard time soloing LI? How? Even on HM, nothing in LI can hit you at 60. LR-5 is a joke, and even can just be powered through easily. The only thing that might be slightly difficult is Savrak, but only because of RNG making you run to a different pipe.

Savrak is a breeze, just get on his ass (LITERALLY), but you probably are going to Save on that each time. I do it just for the sake of ensurance. The last Boss is difficult depending on what type of class you’re playing, ’cause no matter what you do he kills your comp pretty fast, and it’s not an easy fight after that… 🙂

Lorrick is extremely easy. Stay out of puddles, destroy the kolto tanks before the adds spawn, burn down the last phase.

I DO stay out of the AoE, my comp doesn’t lol… But i never tried destroying the tanks BEFORE adds spawn… Guess you’re always learning… Thx mate 🙂

The lower the tanks are before the adds spawn the lower their health will be once they do. If your dps is high enough to destroy it, they won’t spawn at all. Back in vanilla, this was almost as high of a dps check as LR-5 was.

Oh and of course if you’re playing a Trooper/BH forget about the part where you get on Savrak’s ass, just switch Hydraulic Overrides on (the Republic counterpart i never remember the name)… I am SO amazed as how BW didn’t nerf that yet looool…

Not really cool news, basically we are gonna get an army of lv 60+ noobs who don’t know how to play their toons, ’cause they rushed trough content with the 12x, soloed all the Fp’s, did all they had to do SOLO… so that when you hit HM FP’s and Ops you are CLUELESS to playing your toon PROPERLY… Turning normal FP’s into Tacts… Another REALLY bad idea. So it takes a bit long to queue for GF? Take a patience pill and get in line… dps fest from now on… And don’t bet me started on Ops, the Fleet is full of people that think because they exit Ziost at 190 they can do anything… it’s not the mobs that kill you in Ops, it’s the game mechanics! ffs…Basically BW are facerolling the whole game, and then the good players are gonna get fed up with the noobs that can’t tell the difference between a taunt or their aunt… Shame really…

oh man don’t get me started on that, i have some other posts elsewhere about that… i feel you mate…

This “army of noobs” argument gets brought up every time they do anything to streamline leveling or make old content more accessible, and it has never once turned out to be a valid concern.

ok… I’ll remeber that next time i wipe on an Op because some guy is clueless about how to play his/her toon, or doesn’t know anything about the mechanics, doesn’t have a clue of what a taunt, cleanse or aggro drop is… And it’s happening already, lots of seasoned players I know, or knew, left… But I’ll take your word for it…

Man, not even ops. In “hard mode” flash points, people wipe all the time. On JC, the queue population has gotten so low due to them “being too hard”, that at times there are no more than 3 people queuing.

I can’t fucking wait to see them do SoA…so many 0 damage deaths.

See, the reason that happens is because people who NEVER actually ran a FP are getting out of Ziost and going straight to HM FP’s. THAT’S the reason I’m ranting, in times before (don’t know if anyone remembers) you had to PROGRESS, grind your gear to get to do difficult mode FP’s. Nowadays? How many people you know did the Prelude to Sor, soloed the FP’s and came out of Ziost straight into HM FP’s? That’s not the way it should be, in ages past if you queued for that stuff with crappy gear you would be kicked the moment someone checked you out, and rightfully so. Of course, all the people that want to do hard game content YESTERDAY will say that I’m wrong, but hey… I cal it like I see it…

Um, no. Prior to Ziost, the proper content progression was – Missions to max level>Tacticals for basic gear>HMFPs for Elite Gear>SM Ops for Ultimate gear>HM Ops for BiS gear…
The introduction of Ziost has eliminated Tacticals altogether, as for most classes and specs, the Ziost gear is better than Yavin gear…

True, that just means noobs that don’t know how to do group content start doing HMs, but come on, Tacticals are just as much a deeps-fest requiring little to no group cooperation.

Nowadays, Basic Comms are useless to gear up, you go straight to Elites, since you get 162 gear in the Prelude and 176 gear in SoR… And technically you could exit Yavin with 176 gear and jump into HM FP’s… But yeah, you’ve hit the nail on the head, people are not into working as a GROUP, and every single development in this game has supported that in recent times…

I mean, it’s rarely even gear. It may not be perfect but, you can do the fps with 40kish hp, whatever the starting gear is. I did. It’s just no one listens, or they rush…they treat everything like a tactical (gee…wonder why).

I could go on and on. People get mad when you tell them how to do it, they get mad when you can’t carry the tank, dps, and heals as a dps. Blargh…whelp. No new content…guess it’s time for us to take a break.

That just proves my point, you CAN do it in crappy gear… IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING! If you don’t gear won’t carry you alone…

actually tons of good players have already left in hordes due to this issue.. and come with this update i can already guarantee more players will leave.. 2 of my raid teams are already contemplating leaving now and moving to something else

yeah, plus, i think by not releasing a new op or fp and just upping the old ones, it’ll help that army of noobs learn their level 60-65 by the time something new does come around.

It turns out to be a valid concern EVERY time. There is still an ever-present army of noobs, and there always will be. No matter how many of those noobs stop being noobs, there will always be more to take their place. Heil Hydra

I have to agree with Sarigar. I don’t think the “army of noobs” is as valid as it once was. First, based on Bioware’s metrics, there are not as many end game raiders as most people think. If there are, they aren’t hard core progression focused. Second, I have been pug-ing more ops lately, and I think only 1/5 have someone that really needs to be carried. I must be getting really good luck on the pugs because I have been getting groups that steamroll Ravagers in 45 minutes or less. Lastly, if you really are concerned about bad pugs, maybe you should look for a good guild that does ops. I am in a guild that has two republic guilds and two imperial guilds. We have over 10 groups running ops two or three nights each week. My group has already been running the level 50 – 55 ops, and cheesing those. It’ll be nice to have more options to gear characters.

I WAS in pretty good Guilds… We ran many Ops…They ended… Guess why??? And you must be really lucky, I have had terrifying experiences on Ops looool…

Same server… And what do you mean not having the same problem? you just stated above that you run an Op ONCE just to see the story… Tssss, tssss…

Now you’re confusing me… You’re talking down raiding, but you ARE a raider! You don’t get geared by running an Op once man, but several times…. So, a silent raider in our midst… hehehehehehe…

I always run the new one always once, but If the gear I have is not enough for the next one, I do ops/flash to get gear, get it now? 😀

Basicly if I can, I only run it once

Also for example, I run ToS only once, so I could see how different it is from solo mode, and to at least see it…didnt get past second boss though 😀

And the ravager? Well I quite as soon as I could 😀 My guuild was angry at me whole week 🙂

Best news I have heard in a while, no new OPs in the foreseeable future to force gear grinding, focus on story line and the ability to play old content in a semi-challenging maner.
It’s like they saw what was SWTOR’s strenght: the story and decieded to copy a bit of GW2 and ME.
I say it’s perfect, I see a lot of poeple quiting over “the end of SWTOR as an MMO”, yeah no new gear grind, oh the humanity! I’m gonna have to play the game for fun not for gear! /wrists!!!
On the other hand several others are subbing again for the exact same reason so it’s all good.

Dude… the level cap is going to 65… there will be new gear tier. So you WILL need to grind gear again. You will just have the option to get it from older ops not just the new ones. I JUST got everything where I want it, now I have to grind it again? That’s just not fun. Not to mention we will probably have to grind augments again.

It won’t be grinding, at least not to me I’ll have the wide spectrum of old OPs and FPs to pick which ones to do rather then grind the ever loving poop out of the same 2 OPs over and over ad nauseam…
As for new gear, if you really can’t stand having to get new gear I recommend GW2, the gear tiers are permanent as is the lvl cap.
Meaning that once you get your gear “perfect” it stays perfect.

I don’t mind having to get new gear… but they just gave us a new set in October.

It is grinding… you are doing the same old ops that have been in the game for 3 years.

What is better:
Having to pick between 2 OPs to get better gear (oh and your grinding is over since they have week long lock outs after a day or 2 of play) or 9, some of which I have either never done or barely remember since they gave no gear.
Also it means you can get your gear by doing a different OPs every day, think about it you can literally raid every day of the week to get better gear if want to!
Grinding is having to repeat the same thing over and over, it’s a lot less painfull to grind several OPs then just the last 2.

Ok, so we start out with 9 zones that will yield the same tier gear when done in story mode at level 65. Now, what then. New raid zone and tier comes out, do these old 9 zones become obsolete again since or do they magically drop better gear than they did before so they are in line with the new stuff. Or, do the new zones not coincide with new tier, and are just new environments that drop the same kind of stuff you just min/max’d already with the 9 zones. It’s a very odd scenario.

I think the biggest gripe for those that actually *do* end game raiding is how long we’re going to have to wait for anything actually new to see.

I have done these ops for years, I do not want to have to go back and do them for the 1 millionith time.

As much as I love raiding, I kind of miss the storytelling aspect of the game. I mean, the main reason I started playing this game, at launch, was for the story. I LOVED KotOR and if SWTOR wants to go back to it’s storytelling roots, I’m 100% on board.

As for recycled FP/OPs, I say bring it! EV was so much fun with it 1st came out. Now, we can revisit Soa and kick his ass again and it actually be a challenge at lv 65. Granted, It would be nice if they released at least one End Expansion Ops. But meh… No game is perfect.

RIP end game raiders — it’s as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced….

Sure let’s alienate a good segment of the game’s population and call it a win, because that’s a healthy step forward? They told us they wouldn’t have as large of a delay between ops as what we saw with DP/DF and RAV/TOS, or even TFB(1.0) and SNV to a lesser degree, here they make the gap even wider than ever. Sad day for those that have done all these raids countless times when they were all relevant at the time and want to see something new.

Are you implying that doing the same 3 years old raid for the 1000th time IS NOT FUN?! Don’t be funny!

Did you guys guys really not observe the Obi-Wan quote used there from EPIV? Did you really think it implied a million end game raiders were actually affected by this? Come on now folks… 🙂

Hey I’m not in terror, I’m actually amused! I’m going to enjoy this, because by the time Expansion hits I’ll probably be one of a few hundred guys that can actually PLAY this looool… And just a pointer: Story for MMO’s? These are the guys that will run through the story once, maybe twice, start spacing all the conversations and come back here ranting about new content… It’s the raiding and pvp that sustain a good part of these games, if you promote interest to casual players, that’s what you get: a casual game population… But what do I know, I’ve only been here since launch…

And then you get players like me. Filthy casual. Altaholism. 50+ characters and still going strong. Why? Because I like to see every option played out in the story and conversations.

Two months ago, I was in three ops groups that played five nights a week, banging our heads against progressing. I dropped out of two of them because they insisted that they were progression groups, even though most of the others in the group only played on raid nights. You can’t min-max your character to be a good progression team member by only playing during raid times.

The third group is a casual group that does one night of kinda progression and one night of a fun run in level 50-55 ops, sometimes for achievements sometimes for just the hell of it.

From the metrics that Bioware has been getting from the game, there are more of me and casuals than there are of progression / end-game specific players.

I look forward to this being a better game than what they have given us since 2.0.

Fair enough. I see your point. I have my share of alts meself, mind you, and once the story is done, I’ve played out all possible male/female AC’s, what’s left? Raiding or pvp… Or both! That’s it really, people rave about KotOR (quite rightfully so, fabulous game), but story is cool in a single-player environment… In MMO’s you need something to keep drawing you in. And either BW boosts the development of the story a couple of notches, or people are going to leave this one and go searching for the next cool MMO in the market…

“You can’t min-max your character to be a good progression team member by only playing during raid times.”

Um…. what?? LOL. When the only way to get the components required for min/maxing is from raiding, yea, the only reason to log on is usually to raid. You aren’t going to get min/maxed running flashpoints, crafting, doing dailies, or sitting around on fleet all day…

Actually, you’re wrong. In case you aren’t aware, you have to make credits, increase crafting, or however else you go about augmenting your gear. And, if you are serious about progression, you have multiple characters going through content to earn tokens or get BiS gear drops. So please just shush while the grown ups talk.

“In case you aren’t aware, you have to make credits, increase crafting, or however else you go about augmenting your gear.”

ROFL…. how long do you expect that to take? All of half an hour? AMAZING!

“. In case you aren’t aware, you have to make credits, increase crafting, or however else you go about augmenting your gear.”

What’s that? Providing an excuse for doing something other than getting on to raid by getting on to raid? Please stop, I can’t take all the laughter!

Really, half an hour? Minimum, if buying everything, is 1.7million. Most of the people in game don’t have that. So, please, stop being a douche. I know. it takes hard work coming up with new and fantastic names. But, in the end, you’re still a douche.

It takes you longer? I thought you were serious about progression. You don’t already have max level crafters and mountains of mats you can make 140 chestpieces to RE and make kits from? If you don’t have creds for augments, how do you have creds for repairs across these supposed multiple toons running the same ops? In the end, you’re still a scrub.

It’s like I just got everything I ever really wanted out of this game suddenly. God damn.

This is really good news for us casual players; Like I said before I would take more story over one or two new Op’s any day.

Dread masters was ops content. They are introduced on Belsavis, and they were used for dailies, but their evolution as a story element was realized through ops content that was totally separate from the storyline of the game, starting with KP and EC, Then S&V and TFB, then a brief stint on Oricon for some dailies, but finishing strong as ops content. I always thought that was smart making ops sort of their own story away from the overall story of swtor (The story of the war, and Malgus, which is handled in the flashpoints, and the leveling process) I think the problem is that Rishi/Yavin tied ops, leveling, dailies and flashpoints all together into one thing, and left a lot of people like yourself feeling left out. They should have kept them separate still. Hopefully they go back to that model going forward.

When you look at it, Dread Masters are part of the 2.0 expac, and since I love sith sorcery and force mysteries I wanted to do it.

Well, you should do it then. Its lvl 55 content, you are 60. Just watch some fight videos on youtube or read the guides on this very website, and do your fellow ops members the courtesy of paying attention. If you are honest with pugs up front, they rarely have a problem teaching the new guy. Its when you stay quiet and play like a derp and wipe them that they get cranky.

I already did it with all toon I wanted to do it. So yeah. And I didnt have that problem, in the raid groups I was in, they all teached me what I needed to know (I consider myself to be a lucky guy when it comes down to comunnicating)

Obviously. ALWAYS be upfront about your experience problems, no one is born all-knowing, but don’t wipe the party with your silence.

Yeah, but that is not the full story…fulls tory starts on belsavis, happens in Scum and Villainy, seeker droids mission, oricon, dread fortress and finish in dread palace

Yes, because everything in an MMO’s always has to be about raiding, and raiders, right!?

Are you kidding me! those paper armour skrubs deserve to be rekt by flashpoint mobs for not knowing what armour them get!

If they do this, this will break the game, all gear will be obsolete and people will just quit playing this game.
These changes will break the game

From the game? You can tell that amount of subs has increased by just reading general on every planet

No, i think he’s actually right… Partially… What the numbers don’t tell you is how many of these new subscribers will stick to the game in a year’s time. Is this casual game population or a more permanent game population? Because in what numbers are concerned he’s actually pretty much on the money, and come December with a new movie coming up you can bet your gear’s augments that there will be an even bigger increase in subs numbers… Question is: for how long?

Well, WoW has always been known as the easymode MMO…going wel for it. And I think he is right. On the plus side, I can sub once a year and do all the story content…that’s something.

Yeah, and since they will release only nine chapters at start and then one each month, I bet this will make people sub for it. Bioware was always good with stories, where your choices matters (ME, DA).

There’s a lot of new content, just none of it ops or Flashpoints. Swtor is an RPG, so story should be the focus of everything, and we all know story hasn’t been as good with the last few expansions, so I’m glad they’ll fix that.

SWTOR is an MMORPG… the MMO part implies you play with others and hence the desire for content that requires >1 people, such as raids, warzones, etc. When there is no “new” content for >1 people (more so for staged PVE raiding) that you haven’t already seen and revisited way too many times already you’re ignoring this crucial part and giving people that play it for the MMO raiding aspect the big finger.

No, it hasn’t…and you’re foolish if you think it’ll get much better. Better? Yes. But not like it was at launch. Same story, for everyone. With minor differences. It’ll be the same as it is now pretty much. Just with no new PvE content…or PvP. This is laughable.

And no…it’s not an RPG…it’s an MMORPG. Or, at least it used to be.

No new ops…. So instead of having to do the same op we have been doing for 10 months, we will have to do every op we have been doing for the last 4 years…. The two things I have been playing MMO’s for the last 10 years are instanced/world pvp, and endgame raiding. Now my MMO of choice is telling me that for at least an entire year and a half I will get no new pvp options, and I will have to go back to the same operations I have done every week since launch, ad nauseum. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

I disagree. Really. The only thing missing here is a SOLO mode for Ops! I mean, what’s the use of having to play with other people anyways? Make it a Single Mode MMO, the first of it’s kind! You CAN play with other people, but you really don’t have to… Since no one knows how to play anyway loooool… And for pvp… Kids have “imaginary friends”, right? Well, let’s create imaginary adversaries!!! You can go kill them, but they’re not actually people! ffs…

You do relize, that raiders are in minority here? SWTOR was always about story telling, not raiding or pvp, that is why PvP has no major updates, only some class balancing, and one new map for the old mode

And YOU do realize this is an MMO? Raiding is just about the only endgame that exists. It is important for player retention.

Why to do ops for minority, when MAJORITY is interested in the story? WHy should they do stuffs for five people, when they can do stuffs for fifty people?

You obviously haven’t played very long, Story gets boring real fast… What are you going to do after you’ve done the Story, like, 22 times??? Do Dailies ’till you drop? You go for Endgame content, and that’s Ops and pvp, IN THIS MMO OR ANY OTHER. Casual players will do the Story, and then go on to something else… Remember: majorities are not always right, and History itself will tell you that if you pay attention…

I am here since beta, my friend, and untill this very day, I am never bored with stories, cause there are many options on how to run them. And I always played without 12x (I am not fan of it)

Good, that’s 2 of us then. Well, you must be a pretty patient guy, because if i didn’t have Ops (no fan of pvp, but more power to them) I would be going crazy after running the Story on all my toons… and there are a few i guarantee you…

Also I love this game for comp system, makes it fun, and the phrases comps say sometimes are funny, though I would prefer more interactions between comps (like in ME, where you go to talk to Vette, but she is talking to Jease atm)

The majority is always right!

That said, you can hook casual players with very easy endgame that gives them shiny-s. It worked on STO for a while until they upped the difficulty to lol ridiculous levels from very easy to very hard.

Regardless of what percentage of players do or don’t participate in certain segments of the game, it’s not exactly cool when you’re one of those that just got the big finger directed at them because their aspect looks rather bleak now.

Do you even know what player retention is? Who pays to keep the game you play going? The person only interested in playing through the story and then quitting until the next storyline comes out? Or the people that play week in and week out to progress through the content you can’t solo?

That “majority” does not subscribe, and leaves as soon as they’ve seen the story. I understand now they have to subscribe to see the story… but they won’t STAY subscribed, unless they get just tons and tons of content, every single month. As cute as BioWare’s promises are, I don’t think we’re going to get enough content to keep us THAT busy.

I know a lot of subs who only play for the story, and yet they are still there even after finishing every story just rying new ways of completing the story

Lots of subs on Red Eclipse, you mean – where casuals reign and the hardcore go to die from shame

This game was never based on hardcore end game…SWTOR was always about stories you can experience with your friends

Indeed, they went back to rellying heavily in the story because this is what their playerbase asked for. They have been collecting data about the content players want for a while now.

Players wanted more story, I wanted more story, but I wanted more class story. I would take 2 chapters for each class over 16 chapters for all ANY day. Running through 16 chapters 16 times does not interest me in the least, it actually makes me dread the expansion.

Well that’s kinda your fault for having 16 characters with most of them you don’t want to do it on. They have repeated time and time again there will never be individual class story like there was at launch to the same levels.

We all want that but it ain’t gonna happen. But it begs the question if you don’t like we’re this game is going towards why you still playing it and on here bitching about it. If I don’t like something I stop playing it and stop going onto websites about it. Let’s face it for all your talk here about how this news sucks come October you’ll still be hear playing it and saying it’s actually quite good

Why are you on a forum post about operations if all you’re going to do is play e-white knight Bioware Defender and make really terrible attempts at flaming people who are not happy about this news? No, I really won’t be. I may subscribe once more towards the end of 16 chapters and run through on my main, but I canceled my sub today with this news. The point is that Bioware is always underdelivering and saying “well it’s what you wanted!!!”.

I’m flaming people?? Coming from the idiot who told someone to go die in a fire.

I wernt flaming anyone I was suggesting if your not happy leave. The game doesn’t just cater to you and “hardcore raiders”

I love this game for what it is yes no new ops or fps at launch at least is sad news but at least we’re getting all previous ops scaled up including lvl 50 ones that are no challenge at lvl 60.

I was also stating a fact generally when people don’t like something they don’t play it until it offers them what there looking for.

Anyone could see this was coming. It’s been coming since game went f2p and bulk of money came from cc store.

I been subbed from day one u don’t raid much since ec and I haven’t pvped much either. And I’m always finding something to do

You got a point. I want to play a Jedi knight, a Sith , a Mandalorian, not a fit-all-classes “outlander”.

Ops are too long and too hard for casual players.

EA just needs to do the math which gives them more money and modify the game accordingly.
Do the few raiders buy enough subs/cartel coins?
Do the casuals make more money than they do?

I don’t know, but I don’t have their statistics.

Um, no. This is not a single player game. You are the reason they are treating it like one, and you should die in a fire. Or at least suffer third degree burns over 90% of your body. Or at least get a paper cut every time you bag someones groceries at work.

LMAO no it wasn’t. You obviously just started playing, and your opinions are moot.

Aha, nope, I am here since beta, and I will as long bioware will continue supporting this game

SWTOR was always based on a stories, stories you can experience with your friends. When I started playing it with my friends, we each picked different class (rep side, I was commando healer) and played every quest together. We still do this until now, and I have more fun now, then I had back then.

You can’t experience this story with your friends so you just proved you have no clue what you’re talking about. You can’t even go into these “chapters” with other people like the scenario you stated.

There are phases wich you can enter alone aka class phases
Then there are phases that can be entered with a group

I been playing since launch and this game has always been story telling first everything else second. Every fp has a story to it. Even raids used to or have a quest thay sets or continues a story to some degree.

The fact is while it’s a shame there nothing new fp or ops wise for time being I am a bigger fan of the older raids. EV/KP/EC than I am of newer ones so this imo gives players more to do and with them being scaled up I’d imagine they will have so surprises for us.

But the old saying goes you don’t like it don’t play it. Bitching and moaning about it won’t change there minds. And FYI no need for insults or posts like that. People have a right to vent there opinion

wow, this was really unnecessary. Behavior like yours is the thing that kills any online game. Telling him to die in a fire because he is stating the fact PvE is done by a minority? Really?

I really like the sound of solo mode for ops, because I’ve never had the chance to do them.

Sorry, but if you subbed to Swtor just for the Ops then you were subbed to the wrong game buddy. Swtor is one of the least hardcore/endgame-centered MMOs in the market right now.

To that extent, there is only one hard core game, and that’s wildstar…WoW was never a raiding game, EQ2 is garbage, swtor has become what it is…blargh.

wildstar is such a bore & has the most nauseating lvling experience. i really tried to like it…

To bad. But if raiding is your only reason to play swtor then your Def in wrong game. I hear wow still has lots of raids.

upgraded soloable fps, more solo story content, and no new ops. its kind of turning into a single player game. why bother playing online…

Looks like PvE’ers are getting the same treatment as PvP’ers. Zero new content. Welcome to the club. /hugs

No, PvP has plenty of new content. You guys got to nerf / fuck up all the classes. And remember, “PvP isn’t about the map, it’s about facing actual other players. It’s different every time!” -every pvpr ever.

(FYI, I fully support new Maps for PvP…but talking out both sides of your mouths a bit.)

“You guys got to nerf / fuck up all the classes”

This your first MMO? Welcome to Class Balance 101 – Today’s lesson: ‘Balancing PvE and PvP happens both ways, and will never end’

Granted, PvP will always have more influence sheerly because NPCs can’t get on the forums and cry like whiney bitches because a group of players got together and ganged up on them.

It’s pretty proven…”a sin bursted me down” -3.0 happens- aaand Sin has the lowest burst now…

They could just code in different effects against players and Npcs. But no, they are lazy.

Far from it, I’ve probably MMO’d since before you were 12. But a lot of MMOs are able to do this far, far better. Bioware has shown they can as well. You can spec abilities per content.

As for happening both ways though…it has clearly been for PvP since…at least 2.0. Deception too stronk! Sin healing too op!

Ok… So now Deception is the problem… Wasn’t it Hatred a few months ago? Now Deception is too strong… I see… This is the problem with you pvp guys, NOTHING is ever right with you people, Deception plays just fine… In fact, in pve Deceptions weren’t even allowed in some Ops a couple months ago. Hatred gets the nerf because (you’ve guessed it) they were too strong in pvp… Now it’s Deception… oh boy here we go again…

And I have a Deception Assassin, a Serenety Shadow AND a Shadow tank, it’s not about nerfing “my” class, just get it over with so that I know wich one i can play loooooooool

Nah, in 2.0 Deception had good burst in pvp, was easy to counter if you weren’t half retarded. Currently, Deception is not good for PvP, worthless in PvE. Hatred is good for PvP…continuing to be nerfed though. And pretty worthless in PvE. With each nerf, it gets worse.

Don’t even get me started on Darkness. Shit in PvP, and totally neutered in PvE. Remember when they took Darkness heals away because “too hard to balance”? Yeah…PT tanks now pull close to 400 hps, with one ability, while a sin tank with medpack plus overcharge pulls 100ish. Plus they gave shroud to jugs (reflect), aoe shroud to pts (taunt), heals to both jug and pt, ruined Darkness force regen, their mitigation mechanic is still broken.

To top it all off, PT tank rotation is Flame sweep until it’s dead…sad, sad panda.

Oh I seem to have gotten your comment wrong previously, sorry about that… I whole heartedly agree! I do have a PT tank, with the AoE heals and Shoulder Cannon… well, let me not go into that because someone might actually understand it’s SOOOO OP! And Hydraulic Overrides… C’mon, just give us an instant kill and be done with it LOOOOOOL! I have almost zero experience in pvp, but i was always led to believe Deception Sins were very tough one-on-one… Don’t know what it’s like now… and let’s face it, the DoT Shadow/Sin build was a bit overpowered, but they didn’t need to make it worthless looool…

lol, that was a good one… There’s a new kind of player now: you had your pve players, your pvp players, and now the “Epic Story Content” players…

What’s worse is already being a part of that club, and now having dual citizenship in it.

so glad i never do an Op more than once in SM…so sad PvP is in an even worse boat though.

Just saying, go the extra mile and do a solo Mode for Ops… Make it a single player game online, if at all possible…

They could put in shorter Solo mode ops, than Tactical ops, and than proper ops. That way people could learn the mechanics.

As long as harder content gives extra rewards it is all fine.
They should just put all the sets to a vendor for ultimate coms, and have:
Solo modes give 10 ultimates +Class gear.

Tacticals give 20 ultimates + class gear.

Normals gives 30 ultimates + class gear.
Hards give 60 ultimates + better class gear.
Nightmare give 90 ultimates + better class gear.

“Even without new Operations, though, you will have a whole lot of content to play at the level cap”
A whole lot of old content that has been done to death.

They just killed progression raiding and ground PvP hasn’t had a new map in years, you think they care about GSF?

I will stay subbed… Long enough to get my sub rewards prior to launch. After that, though, I wholly expect to cancel it for the first time since launch. I figured, “OK, they aren’t introducing any new pvp content, so they must be doing a new operation, right?” So disappointing.

Currently that’s my plan. Sub until sub rewards, then play the content and go f2p. I’ll sub once a year to play all the new content, and that’s it. Until raids are put in.

Finally! Lvl sync feature to allow players from different lvl ranges to party and class specific loot for each player without the need to need/greed. Features that, imo, every MMO should have and have them from launch! Better late than ever i guess…..

That feature was actually pioneered by City of Heroes. It was called the Sidekick/Malidictor system.

Amen. CoH is dead and still showing the way forward to today’s game devs. Too bad few of them take hints from that game hence the flooded with crappy copy-cat titles market…….

Yes actually, it was. At least for me and for many like-minded ppl. Imo QoL features such as these are way more important, for the overall gaming experince, than repetitive grind content. Maybe not to you but to each on their own.

R.I.P the few raiding guilds that were left. I hope that Dulfy will just finally drop support for SWTOR considering this news.

Drop support? I know ops are loved by many but the game isn’t just about them. I see no reason for dulfy to drop support because of that. Also it doesn’t mean they won’t make new OPS anyways.

“however with Knights of the Fallen Empire there will not be any new Operations”
While that does not mean there won’t be any ever again, it does mean there won’t be any in time to keep the loyal hardcore player base and your game will be full of nothing but filthy casuals. News flash: This isn’t Runescape

I’m sure they looked at their demographics and KNEW they would be losing ‘the hardcore player base’ while retaining and attracting more of those ‘casuals’. Sounds like a win win to me. Maybe you’ll get out more this way.

Because Dulfy used to be one of the top progression guilds in the game, not sure where she is at the moment, but I believe that was one of the big reasons she continued to play.

Well, there you have it. If Dulfy is saying this maybe we aren’t ranting for no reason. I agree, I’m not a quitter, I love Star Wars, and I love playing this game. I will not quit, but I’m not happy either…

I’ve been discouraged since my guild quietly started to die off after the “Year of Dread” and this is the final nail in the coffin for our 3 remaining raid teams and probably the guild as a whole.

I play since launch, with a number of toons and guilds, and i can tell you NONE of my original guilds are in the game any more… That must mean something…

I founded this guild at launch and we have expanded to 5 different MMOs and have over 400 registered through our site and SWTOR, the original, is the least active out of all of them now.

If they aren’t all intermingling, it sounds like you have confused the word guild with the word franchise, and you get all the soul-less turn around in that kind of set up as you would (should?) expect. Good guilds are a balance between having enough people for content but not so many that nobody gives a crap about anyone else. Lose the balance, get greedy and shoot too high, and watch it all crumble apart.

They all do intermingle in teamspeak and on our website, just don’t play the same games anymore.

Raid guilds die every expansion. It is actually incredibly standard in almost all MMOs. You have only a few raid guilds that stand the test of time but many of times a raid guild starts to die once they fully geared their mains and have cleared the current raids.

You’re right, and now there are so few raid guilds left there isn’t even a real progression tracker anymore.

Pretty happy with the news. A new operation in the future would be nice, but seeing that I hate the gear treadmill that is hardcore raiding… meh, couldn’t care less. PvP content would only be nice if they every separate skills completely for PvP, otherwise you’ll have the balance issues we have been dealing with, in this and other games.

Looks like you’re still getting the gear treadmill, but you have to go through souped up versions of the old ops to get it.

But if there are no ops to get to, or ops are redesigned around cosmetic gear (al la GW2), then you don’t need the gear for anything. It was only there because the next boss/op was not surmountable unless you had the previous gear. Personally, I like the GW2 method better. Everyone, even PvE Casuals can get the same stat gear, but only the raiders could get the very coolest looking gear. Now GW2 lack of dedicated roles just sucked (IMHO).

It is unique how GW2 does that, however if you look across services that archive how much time their clients stay in games ( like x-fire) you will find far fewer people actually play GW2, the grind and the carrot on a stick unfortunately still work, although much less so.

Agreed in all counts. It is just so bad Bioware is too lazy for it. They could solve the whole PVP/PVE balance issues by adjusting skills to have a different effect against players.

Like Force Storm:
Disables Npcs, does 100% damage.
Does 50% damage to players.

This is just an example.

This is the news I have finally been waiting for. Finally a fix to everything I felt needed a fix. This, imho, is probably the biggest positive step taken by Bioware for this game. This fix simply makes a lot of sense for the future of this game, including, what looks to me, a more streamlined way to release endgame content.

Bravo! Keeping my sub.

yh, looks good. all it needs now is cross-server or a megaserver & swtor has a long life ahead of it

Are they saying for the entire KOTFE expansion there won’t be any new ops or flash points? Or just saying there won’t be any at launch?

It is ambiguous, they don’t come out and say it. So I would say the answer is maybe for the first question. And no for at launch. — EDIT — Anything else is supposition.

i think they are just testing responses, whole stage is still in early stage of development and i don’t think its final lots can change before the launch

I think they are finished with the main stuffs, like chapters, but they will decide later if they should add ops and so on (thouhg I hope if they do, it will be like filler in anime, not tied to main story, cause I dont realy like ops)

Agreed. The older raids are best imo. I loved ev kp and ec. Obviously I hope the do add new fps and ops but I mostly play for the story now as raiding died down to a point it’s either gf or elitists thay ruin any enjoyment critisizing people and insulting them.

I still remmember my first time oing Karaga (or how was it called lol I am not raider, I only do them If I need to gear up, and to see the end of story -> Dread Masters)…got wiped at first wave of mobs 😀 And I was gealer…I was so ashamed I decided to to roll for any items 😀

Hehe. Karragas palace was hoot and a half. Was raid leader for it ev and ec for awhile. 3 best raids in game imo

They are saying there will not be any new Ops or FPs until at least July 2016 when “Season one” ends.

Ah. To bad but not end of world for me. I loved ev kp ec and tfb so will get to do them again. However I am abut surprised they won’t be adding at least some new pvp stuff. I think most of the complaints would due down if they gave at least some part of end game something new

While I am glad old content will be worth playing again, I am disappointed in no new ops content. le sigh.

Hmm… If this is the direction they’re going, RPG being the focus, why am I still required to pay a sub to experience it? I can’t think of another RPG that requires a sub to enjoy story elements ALONE. While Red Reaper HM sounds fun, it should’ve been in the game over a year ago along with Colicoid. Re-playing all the Operations/FPs I’ve beaten with even more abilities to hotkey doesn’t sound like an RPG I should be excited for.

Lotro (lord of the rings online) requires you to buy sub or story packs to expeirance it and that games end game is 20x worse than this.

I’ve never played LoTRO so I’ll take your word for it. I love this game, but not adding Ops/FPs and PvP maps in the foreseeable future, to me, doesn’t warrant a subscription anymore. I’ll just watch the storyline on Twitch or YouTube, it’s a shame BW or EA don’t realize this.

Now I could be completely wrong and they never plan on adding any new operations or pvp maps. But from what the article said it sounds like they’ll be fixing things and testing the water so to speak. If it goes well I expect to see new operations, (cross my fingers new pvp maps as well) down the line. At least this is what I hope, because as excited as I am about the new story content. I love the challenge of healing through operations, and shooting people in the back in pvp on my scoundrel. 😛

One thing I don’t understand. I have to completely play through the story again. But I caught somewhere that I only get to use one character and I can unlock more character slots. I have over 20 now. Do those just get tossed out of the window?

You happen to have a link for all of this? I can’t seem to find much at all, and I tried listening to the 2 hour video but just couldn’t do it. Could not muster the strength.

Btw, I have 20 of them that are 55-60, I don’t want to make anything over again….lol.

Well they said it ties to your background, ie class stories, and it is logical to have more of the Outlanders, cause every class has a diffferent thinking, story, releationships, etc…

As I understand it, you can use all of your previous chars (of course, made no sense otherwise), make a fresh new lv 60, or aditional lv 60 through CC’s… The part I’m not sure about is that there are plans for another 2 char slots to be introduced, but I have no real confirmation of that… It would come in handy, not keen on going to the Appearance Designer to convert one of my chars to a Togruta… IF the Togruta race does appear sometime…

Ahhh, so you are saying the “Free slot” was for an auto 60? THAT makes more sense.

Well, for an insta-60 or an “old” char, like starting from level 1 I guess… From what I read you will have those options…

Yeah, that makes more sense. I have to be honest with you, I have zero confidence in them when it comes to cartel market decisions. Thanks for your clarity on the matter.

I heard Togrutas are on PTS already….
Well I hope they will show a creation of new character at Comic Con, or at least give more info about it
Thouhg it somehow reminds me of Death Knight from WoW

Truth. The video with the developers did not seem too promising. They kept saying a free slot, and you can buy more with cartel coins….

They know full well that most subscribers have far more than one slot.

Hehe I have around 30 active slots and all are fully geared with Ziost gear (so again no ops)

They were talking about the instant level 60 stuff. One free at launch like warlords did and additional instant level 60 from the cartal market. If you have level 60 characters already u can just play. Or if you want to level from one u can still play till level 65. No need to worry

When the expansion launches, you can make a brand new toon, just one though, and they will be level 60 starting right off in the new content. You can buy additional ones from the cartel market apparently. Your other toons can also do the new content. I think it still caps at the same amount of character slots though.

Not a librarian though so I am not siting my sources or anything, that’s just what I have read here, on this site.

It wasn’t on my radar really till I saw FrankyonPC’s top 15 up and coming games, and the visuals are so solid, coupled with the thought of 3 bajillion planets and the ability to go from space to orbit to planetfall with no loading screens…that’s pretty amazing if it has authenticity. If they can capture the social element somehow, this is everyone’s new game….and possibly where I shall park my intellectual essence when my meatform degrades from too much playing. Like the Matrix only with a big dead fat Naq covered in peanut butter cookie crumbs, rictus pudgy fingers locked on a joystick.

Completely different games. But yeah just throw it in here for the sake of pointless argument. It’s the internet after all, right?

I’m still a little worried about gearing up new level sixties. It just seems like it’s going to suck a little.

What about Colicoid war game?! the most forgotten flashpoint by Bioware. I miss it, that FP was something different.

Turret and puzzle phases are not possible in hard mode for skillcapped bads….pugs can barely get through it on normal, and as much as that makes my brain hurt, I think Bioware knows it would be a terrible idea to make it HM.

why would they reduce our stats in lower ops already it has been done already i hate it i do way less dps on mobs in S&V and Dread pallace already they already squised my stats there BS i mean i have to work harder again to do Nim wich is imposible without good players wich doesnt exist anymore so u need it off there power of their gear wich they lower their stats this is BS i think a player should decide for them self if they want to do reduiced stats OPS or Being op and doing low op on NIM easy 🙂 not that we forced to i mean how manny good players actauly are left in this game like zero

Also. Just thought about it, the people who do old runs for fun or a quick decoration farming have to put up with the whole old ops as if it were new with stat squish and all? Or is it only for group finder

I think I am SOL on my old ops duoing days. Some of it was really challenging too. Duoing the sith lords in EV felt like an old kung fu movie on my scrapper. Having these wicked punch fights with one guy at a time while his friends all close in, just as one drops the other one closes in. Or SoA, racing to mind traps to get your friend out asap before you got sucked into another one. Balancing out Jarg and Sorno, or racing the puzzle while Pyre tanks the droid, then pouring on the dps before running back to puzzle again. Such good times. I was going to get all bent out of shape about it, but, I will wait and see first I guess.

I suppose, I mean if they make it like those new flashpoints where u can set the difficulty to current tier or leave it at the level it was designed for, then it’s fine by me but if it’s a standard “new” OP where u have to out effort into like we do now with tos and tr, it will suck.

Guessing , the things you want, better get it now. I don’t mind the idea of having end game tiers on them but it should be an option we choose for like how we choose hm and him

Oh I am for sure pressganging anyone I know who is unlucky enough to be online while I am into NM EC servitude before the expansion hits. I do NOT want to go back to doing that at appropriate difficulty….ew yucky. Still need a cannon and a tankmount, but if I don’t get them before the expansion I think I will just sing Let it Go and skip it. Same deal for NM dread Ops. Pyre wants those wings so bad, but like….ew…not at 65.

Idd, tbh its already terrible with people who just tunnel-vision and don’t follow tacs even on older ops, imagine how it will be going in, in new lv 65 difficulty.

But guess we have to wait and see

Dear Raider’s,

We see you. We see you grouping in teams of eight or sixteen. Struggling against Engine performance to down the content gates in our game. We remember the first time you downed Soa. The first rush of excitement we got as you pummeled Karagga to our cold digital floor. We still shiver with pleasure at the memory of you stroking our Kephess not once, but twice! But alas, as we reflect, we remember all the bad times.

We remember the time you cheated on us and “Ravagers”ed us for gear. We remember the time you outsmarted our great aunt Nefra and locked out some of her mechanics!

As we reflect on this we…well…let us start by saying its not you, its us. You see, the passion just isn’t there anymore. We don’t feel satisfied by being finished by a group of eight to sixteen gamers. There is no longer a spark when you tenderly look into the maw of our Terror from Beyond. But don’t worry, we’ll still let you stroke our Kephess again and again at level 65!


The Raids of SWTOR

PS: Please don’t forget to stroke our Kephess before you unsubscribe.

Don’t go nuts about it guys and start over reacting.
They will add a new op sooner or later so chill out and enjoy the content so long.
Complaining wont take you anywhere anyway…

What? cant you see that PVE’ers cheating in raids and complaining about the result is obviously PVP’s fault somehow?

As long as the old ops drop new rare and stylish mounts I have no problem of playing them 1 or 2 times more once in a while.

That’s cool. I’ll just unsubscribe after we kill HM Revan. They’ve already trivialized the loot from him with Colossal Monolith, so after killing him once, I won’t have to fork over $15 a month to avoid weekly ops passes.

If they want to make this a single player game, they should probably drop the monthly subscription fee altogether. It’ll be interesting to see how this approach affects the playerbase, I think they’re trying to keep new players engaged and busy, but I can’t see a lot of the veterans of the game being okay with this… Especially in an expansion that’s supposed to revolve around story and character progression.

What possible explanation could they have story wise for making us go back to those places after having already faced those enemies and killed them, long before we got OH-NO FROZED in carbonite?

Did anyone else get a chub from hearing level cap 65? and the cry when you realize this game is about to become incredibly different? and the more you think of it? it makes you want to cry?
Sounds bland. Sounds tame. Too single player gross. PVP for life

This isn’t news. They said this already. KOTFE will not bring new Operations in October.
Why are people disappointed again about facts that are already known for weeks?

I like what they are doing. Makes a lot of underutilized content relevant again. Serves a wider player base than just the progression raiders. BW is betting they can attract more customers by focusing on “story” rather than “new ops”. Players who aren’t looking for “just another MMO”. Players who enjoy something a little different.

I agree. I don’t particularly understand much of people’s rage over this expansion. Bioware came right out saying that it would focus on very story-driven content, yet many players treat any announcement in regards to the focus on story as a suckerpunch. I don’t understand that mentality at all.
I will admit, though, that the lack of new fp and op content is a bit odd, but if they can make the story personalized and creative, then I’m all in for the expansion.
For people claiming authority to call out the expansion based solely on the grounds that they’ve played since launch, that is complete and utter nonsense. I’ve played since launch, too, and I don’t have a vendetta against story content. I–along with several other players (even fellow launch players)–came into the community knowing that SWTOR was ultimately a more story-driven game than other MMOs and was happy whenever my characters got another hoorah. I don’t have the mentality that when you’re finished with class story, that there should only be raids upon raids. Star Wars isn’t Star Wars without story, so if you don’t want story, I don’t know why you played this game in the first place.

The reason we don’t like this is because we are being suckered. Plain and simple, BW wants us to enjoy their “Epic” story while doing the same stuff we’ve been doing for the last year or so… Over the course of another 10 months while we “enjoy” being spoon fed bits of the new storyline, because they realised they can’t release it all at one time ’cause players would burn through the content in 2 weeks and then ask for… You know, NEW CONTENT. Hey I love story, but as I’ve been saying: STORY IS NOT REPEATABLE. STORY IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE for new REPEATABLE ENDGAME CONTENT. The only reason we point out that we play since launch is because we’ve done ALL the REPEATABLE CONTENT in the game OVER AND OVER. So, once the Epic story ends, what you get is the same stuff you were doing a year before, just more difficult… Sorry, but that’s not my idea of Endgame, I will not pay 13€ a month to do the SAME STUFF I’ve been doing all along… And please stop implying we don’t want a good story, that we just want to go on Raids, because it’s not true. But story inevitably ends, Raids, FP’s, pvp and Dailies are Endgame BECAUSE THEY ARE R-E-P-E-A-TA-B-L-E. Story, as great as it may be, is not. It’s not a substitute for new, repeatable content.

You complain about story longevity, yet you don’t want them to deliver it over a length of time?

OMG… your naivety is unparalleled… Where did I complain about story longevity? And if the content is SOOOO fabulous, why not deliver it all at once??? 2 reasons: they want us to keep subscribing to… errrr… play the story, and this way they artificially prolong the story! Not because it’s a massive amount of content, but because it’s not enough to keep players playing if delivered all at once! Maybe you weren’t here, but they thought they had enough story content at launch and guess what? Players were burning through the content a lot faster than BW had anticipated. And this IS NOT me saying this, there are BW posts acknowledging this! Seems they found a solution… Spoon feeding story content a little bit at a time… But hey, I REALLY hope it’s the next best thing after the invention of the wheel, I’m actually looking forward to play the story…

“Players were burning through the content a lot faster than BW had anticipated” — seems to me like a longevity issue, which you claim to never have said anything about. Regardless, I’m not a filthy casual as you seem to want to imply in your other post (real smooth, by the way). Did I once state that I don’t raid or enjoy raids? I’ll spare you the time and answer that myself; no. And face it, the dedicated raiders have always been a minority group in just about every MMO; the majority of the player base is going to be the more casual player. I’m part of the raiding minority, and I’m not ashamed to admit that the group is a minority–it’s common sense. Anyway, all I was saying that I think focus on the story is a worthwhile endeavor and don’t understand why just the story aspect alone is pissing people off.
To me, the story is more enjoyable than raids because in the end, the story is what actually let’s you make your character the way you want them to be. Raids provide a different satisfaction in that you great to take down big bosses and pick up great and loot, and while they have some story elements to them, they don’t have the same impact as the individual story. My preference doesn’t hinder my skills as a player nor my dedication to end game content (as shown by my complete set of 198 gear). What does hinder the dedication to end game content, though, is the low population of my server. It’s slowly becoming more and more impossible to get into operations and even flashpoints, and ranked pvp is not even a possibility. How does this tie in? With a lot of the new changes that are coming, such as those to pvp and operations and the story centric expansion, Bioware is opening the game up to both new and returning players in a–believe it or not–positive way. A lot of people are looking forward to the new story as it marks what is basically a new beginning (you even show enthusiasm). And when they are finished with the monthly story content, they don’t have to turn to dailies or the long grind of getting into HM Flashpoints and eventually Operations; now they can get into Operations right away, all the while doing content that they’ve missed before and can be more easily led into HMs and NiMs. This change will inevitably attract more players to the raiding minority and it won’t be so hard to get into an operation. I also appreciate that with the new system, you can have a more varied raiding experience and at the same time giving you the same rewards. I know some people are worried about the changes to PVE and even more so the lack of new PVE content, but I feel that the delay on new content shows that they are testing the new changes first. If the changes made things worse, then they’d tarnish the new content, and is that really what you’d want?
I’m hopeful for the expansion and I can really see it working. I’m confident that it can bring new life to dead servers.

Now we’re getting somewhere… First of all I’d like to compliment you for not going all irrational and expletive on me, like so many others do when faced with a different opinion.

I never had a problem with story longevity, BW had. As I said in my comment, this was acknowledged by the guys themselves in a post on Swtor. Wish I knew where exactly it was, but good luck finding old posts on there… I did not complain about it, BW did.

I sincerely hope you are right and I’m wrong, but I don’t think getting into raiding will be any easier than it is right now. I mean, people complain they can’t do EV nowadays… You can 4-man it easy peasy… At lv 65? I don’t think so… Same with most HM lv 50 FP’s, I have personally soloed EVERY single one of them… Why do I need a Jesus Droid to do that in the future?

You are absolutely right on one other count: getting into Ops is getting very difficult. If you have a good Guild, hold on to it! People are afraid of stepping into an Op! And while I get that some raiders are elitists, most often these days I find that people think because you finish Ziost with 190 gear you are now qualified to burn through Op content like a God. You are not. It’s not the mobs that get you in Ops, it’s the mechanics, I’ve said this to exhaustion.

I don’t have a problem with being in a minority either. As you say it’s common sense. Not everybody has the drive, commitment, time or all of the above to pursue raiding, and I get that. What I DON’T get is how people are actually feeling vindicated by the fact that those that are committed to higher tiers of gaming are getting nothing new to entertain themselves. I mean, all I want is some new Op material along with the story, which I’m very much looking forward to. And while we’re at it, some new pvp stuff wouldn’t go amiss, I don’t pvp myself, but those guys deserve some love too… Even if it’s to mess up our AC’s again loool… I would not feel vindicated if there was new Op and pvp content and no story… So why all the bickering that we should be eradicated or something like that? We’re a minority, but minorities have rights too!

I maybe missing something but I don’t see a valid reason why BW can’t walk and chew gum at the same time. Either story or new end game content seems to be a bit of a false choice. Reject the tyranny of “Or.”

Resources (developers) are not infinite. Someone at BW decides what the priorities are and assigns the resources available. New ops are not high enough on their current priority list to be done for October.

The released statement makes it appear as if they don’t intend on releasing any new end game content for the duration of this expansion. If that’s not the case, alot of the anger here would have evaporated if they had said something like, “It won’t be done in time for release but we have something in the works that will really wow you operation fans.”

Yeah, a little more of their long range roadmap would be nice. I’m thinking new ops will be added not too long after the expansion is released, but that’s only a guess. It seems the next logical step after revamping the existing stuff.

Let’s see if we get one thing straight: how “Epic” is this story going to be? Because I tell you, it has to be pretty AMAZING to negate new content… And is it 8 COMPLETELY different storylines? Or just the one like SoR? Ok, for new players I can get there’s some excitement, they get everything pretty so that they can run all the previous stuff and be happy… What about us long time players that have been here from the freakin’ start??? We’ve done it ALL, I like to run old Ops sometimes as a training ground for people new to Endgame content. Not any more I won’t… Excuse me, but running the story on my 15 or 16 chars is not MY definition of great Endgame… And why is that people are opposing casual players to raiders? News flash: Endgame content IS Ops, HM FP’s and pvp! What else is there? Story??? When you FINISH that, for the freaking 22nd time, what is there? Is there something I’m missing? BW did this SAME MISTAKE at the start, they thought they had Endgame content to keep a player base… Fastest MMO to go f2p in the history of MMO’s… And I know, I was HERE! Well, technically there loool… This has got to be the greatest kick in the balls for longtime players since launch…

omg… then it’s even worse than I had imagined… wtf… I’ll clear that in a couple of weeks, tops… Seriously man, how can anyone be looking forward to this…

Nah… they’re gonna give us 9 of the 16 chapters in October and then we get another chapter every month after that… so 2 hours of content every month is new.

Yep… and they don’t have to worry about people going through the content too fast…. they are in control now lol.

You know, the greatest news to me have nothing to do with the expansion… This Summer I’m getting a new pc and going to FINALLY run this sucker in full graphics mode… It will be like a new game to me loooooooooool!!!

Actually, this is completely wrong.
8 class stories per chapter, 16 chapters. I’m guessing that it will be ~2-5 hours of gameplay per class per chapter. The no raids thing is still slightly weird though. My guess is that shortly after Chapter 16 (final chapter) there will be a new raid introduced.

I know how you feel… lol I have a much larger gripe with this xpac than story or lack of new content that’s going to be played longer than 25-50 hours (or however long it would normally take me to spacebar through stuff I don’t care about)… My gripe is with the level 65 cap… WTF IS THAT?! How are they going to add all of that story, no new fps/ops, and then only make you get to 65! How slow is the leveling going to be? If it’s 1 level worth of XP every 3.2 chapters (16 chapters / 5 levels) that’s going to be painful… seriously painful for preferred/f2p, which makes me think that the game is going to lose basically all of those players. I would have thought they would have made the new cap at least 70, possibly 75. This is the part that makes me feel like they have lost all touch with the player base. I don’t recall anyone ever requesting super old school “8-months-to-reach-max-level-while-playing-super-hardcore” leveling in this game… minor exaggeration but whatever. lol

I get you, I really do, and I second that. This is not a “raider – casual” battle, it’s actually much more serious than that. Hey, I LOVE story! Neverwinter Nights… ME… Baldur’s Gate… I played them all and love them. What people are missing is that story is NOT repeatable content, it is by definition something that ENDS. It works great on single-player games… Because you pay for the game and are done with it, except for the occasional DLC. This is an MMO, it HAS to have repeatable content, or else why should I pay more money? To do Dailies? I have ALL Dailies reputation maxed out. Old FP’s and Ops? Been there, done that… And prepare for a very painful leveling experience with the new expansion loool…

I’m guessing the first 9 Chapters they’ll release at the Start will get us to 65 and and the Rest will be done at max Lvl. If not, there are always the Fps, Operations and PvP to push to 65.

It has already been confirmed that ‘8 class stories’ on that page refers to their revamping of the existing class story lines. The ones you’ve already leveled through from 1-50. There will only be one story for the new expansion.

There is no 8 class story. Just a unified story with class touches on them. But for most part all classes, both faction experience the same thing with a but of a class flavour. How big that flavour will be, remains to be seen.

When you finish the story for the 22nd time, what is there, you ask? Endgame content you’ll be doing for 2222 times! Do you see the flaw in your logic yet or do i have to spell it out?

No flaw, because I can do endgame content ’till my mouse hand drops on the floor… But YOU sir CANNOT REPEAT the story on the same toon… 🙂

I have a better idea… why don’t they just get rid of leveling entirely? I mean, they keep making up ways to prevent things like “over leveling” and what not. They should just nip it in the bud now. At least then they won’t have to rebalance all of the old content whenever there is a new cap raise.

“We know that many players love our Operations and look forward to the introduction of new challenges, however with Knights of the Fallen Empire there will not be any new Operations.” was looking into coming back into the game, not anymore lelelel

No new operations for the next 15 months? RIP SWTOR.
Mass exodus of ops players with SOR and so many now hanging on by a thread hoping for new content, this will be the nail in the coffin. They have basically been recycling ops for the past year anyway only difference is now they will be scaled to 65 and drop “new gear”.

Oh yeah and depening on how heavy handed the scaling is, stuff that is accessible right now to most players like EC/TFB NIM will once again only be tackled by the elites, thats if you can find enough elite players who havent moved on to a new game that actually cares about new content and not just trying to make a cash grab off a halfass expansion timed to capitalize on the new movie.

15 bucks a month so I can log in once a month to play an hour or two of new story I could watch on youtube? no thanks. All that is going to be left is PVPers when the dust settles.

The only good thing I see in any of this is solo mode of a few of the flashpoints while leveling for those who want to play all the content in sequence, which is long long long overdue.

Well maybe given nothing to do they will fire the ops/combat teams and we will finally get people in who have some idea what the f they are doing and dont release a bunch of buggy and unbalaced garbage and we wont get a new class gimped every month with nerfs.

I really hope the solo fps drop some semi-decent loot, at least the sort one gets from the prelude solo fps. The idea of starting a character at 60 with zero equipment is scary to me. I’m also still confused about the old companions. It’s okay with me if the new ones are more important, but I’d hate for them to just take away my pre-existing companions. I put a lot of time into getting them, and really I put a lot of money too, monthly subscription fee, plus CC money to get their fancy customizations and cool looking things for them to wear. It’s okay if they leave due to my character pissing them off with lots of dark/light side choices or something, but if they all just vanish once I enter carbonite and I can’t get them back, well it’d suck.

You are totally right. Especially if they take a healer from a marauder or sniper, that sucks hardcore.

I really happy for this info i whit my level 60 toon i still searching a group or people to can help me in do the old ops many people dont want to do this info is very nice but i still disagre for the same story in this new expansion for the 8 class, same story for jedi and bonthy hunter XP

its pretty cool to see Bioware going back to its original story telling roots. not sure why anyone is complaining about there being no new ops/fps. they are upping the difficulty level on all the older FPs and ops coming October, meaning new strategy, new plans, new angle of attack on some oldies but goodies. the past expansions, people kept saying they’ll be a mass exodus from the servers, and yet, the game remains. their Catina tours get larger, their fan base slowly grows. its not the perfect mmo, but its one that evolves over time. all i can say is that I’m waiting for October, ; P

but it is “new” they “scaled it”…. lel…. now go be happy with waiting a year and a half for new content and dont forget to pay that $15 a month……..

New content is better than rehashed content that we’ve clearly 100 of times.
increased level in ops doesnt make it any different to previous..the mechanics are the same..when the boss hit you at lvl 50 for 10% hp he will at lvl 65 hit you for 10%..its the same.
and the population in this game has decreased….its in no way as active on the servers as previously especially after Shadow of Revan.
the only thing thats evolving in this game is people walking out and newbies trying f2p..
all of which is not good.
Stop being happy with less and demand more for your is aftet all your cash and time.

If population is declining that much it actually makes sence there not adding new end game stuff that nit many people will get to play.

Not saying I agree with it but sine if the old raids were there best ones. For me the best 4 ops are ev kp ec and tfb. The newer stuff is designed in such away I only seen groups in general chat looking for people who have done them before. I’m sure bw noticed this an maybe that’s taken into there decision.

Besides who knows maybe for some of then they add a new mechanic for the new scaling.

Starting to look like Knights of the fallen empire is a reference to the game population thats about to disappear after this release..
as nice as it is to up old ops/fps its still bad news that theres no new operations/fps or war zones for pvp…
story is good but most will burn through it in no time..
endgame is ops/fps and pvp…nothing new in those departments is very bad news.
oh and just cause theyre increasing old ops/fps to 65 wont make them in any way different to what they were when we cleared them at lvl50 on lvl 50 toons. The mechanics are same. This classic bioware rehashing something we’ve had before and telling us its new and interesting

Its not. 🙁

Does anyone else remember when the devs said “There will never be a 14-month gap between new Operations like we had with DF and DP Nim.” ? I guess now collossal monolith counts as an operation (good joke there) so really they can now wait until july 2016 with any new operation…

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not here to whine about it… From an economic point of view I can fully understand Bioware, why should you focus on content for 5% of the players… We (raiders, end-game-pvp-players etc.) might be the loudest part of the fanbase, but by far not the biggest…

Still I was hoping after the press conference last month, that they’d soon give us some info on new content but I guess it’s time to move on…

So: Does anyone here know about a mmorpg with difficult end-game content?^^

Wows end game is pretty hard. I think rift online end game is also hard but not played it in a year or 2. Age of Conan was pretty difficult aswell.

When I was playing Rift, I was told by a few guildies that a number of raiding guilds had left because the latest tier raids were insanely difficult and the guy in charge of them refused to tone them down 😛

Lol. At least people were kept busy trying to cracking it then lol.

Just goes to show tho moat mmos get end game wrong sometimes

I think the main reason for this is to try to recycle the old content and avoid people clearing NiM EC, EV and KP like we can do it nowadays, just to farm decorations and mounts, and get some titles and achievements. With the new level cap, level 55 operations would suffer the same fate (mechanics are easier to do when you resist almost 100% dmg and the dps is not a problem), leaving 2 operations in which you could find a little bit of challenge, forcing them to develop like 4-5 new ones to replace all 55 operations.

They found easier to raise all and give better things in loot, which is not bad at all, but is a bit disappointing, because most people pays 15$ monthly to play end-game. I’m afraid of the changes that classes will bring with the level raise, as they have demonstrated that they can’t manage to develop a balanced group of classes, at least in the first release of a new version.

Let me summarize it:
No new content except single player.
Rehash of old contetnt that will most probably bring more people who have no idea how to gear their toons, how trinity works, how guard or cleanse works or what kill order is…
With most of my friends already gone…
Well i had fun with you SW:TOR for a few years but everything ends eventualy and it is probably time to move on (preferably to a singleplayer game that does not cost me montly).
Wish you the best of luck.

P.S.: The the idea of scaling up the new content is good but poorly implemented IMHO.

I’m personally really glad at this announcement.
Yes it would be great to have a new op/fp but I would rather they took the time to tweak the old op/fp’s to make them worthwhile doing again.
Bioware/EA have some amazing content in the game that has been left to rot for too long and I would love to run KP again or EV again and it be a real challenge with my lvl 65.
Make it better before moving on is a great idea.
Just my opinion though.

“We know that many players love our Operations and look forward to the introduction of new challenges, however with Knights of the Fallen Empire there will not be any new Operations” So that how they listen to community yes ?

Oh and nothing new for PvP players too 🙁 damn guess i need to wait till my sub run out. Most of my friends that we were playing since beta already left. Guess its time for me now 🙁

Good news. There is a lot of old stuff that a lot of people never had a chance to do because they were considered useless and nobody formed a group for them.
I believe Eternity Vault was/is an “old” op right? cause I had the luck to do it once (And omfg that view when you enter the vault and look around you. Gave me the chills) with my guild alongside Karagga’s Palace and a 3rd one I don’t remember one after another, but every time I went on fleet afterwards, in the past year, the only groups forming were for Rav and/or ToS. Things changed a bit with the rotation in GF, but still the only groups forming were for the latest ops only. So the fact that also the older ones are being scaled and made “useful” again, is a good news for someone like me that does ops from time to time and never had the chance to clear the old ones.

But sadly, this comment section (And forums aswell) is full of whiners and crybabies. If you don’t like it, don’t play it. If you think other games have better end game than this one, why are you still here bitching and beggind like toddlers? This goes for both ops and pvp. Go away and don’t come back, there are tons upon tons of other mmos you can play, why bother asking for new end game content when they clearly stated at the reveal that this 4.0 was going to be story driven expansion and not end game driven expansion? I understand you’ve been here since lunch and all that garbage, but still, if you don’t feel like continuing subscribing, just drop it, or wait until your game time ends, and leave already.


Just because it’s not new content for the 5% of the player base, it doesn’t mean it isn’t also for the remaining 95%. Thousands of people never had the chance to clear the old ops and fps in either sm or hm or nim or whatever difficulty you prefer. Now they can. It’s like getting access to stuff that was there, but locked behind close doors until now. So, it’s still new content. Just not the new content you wanted.

I only wish all the people who spit on Bioware and declare they’re going to quit every time they get news they don’t like would actually quit, stop posting, and go someplace else. But it’s all hot air, and they never actually leave.

Right on! So far the expansion looks good to me. More story, more solos and tactical, lev 65 HM and ops modes. So there is no ultra hard op with a new mechanic. Progression raiding has it’d place but it’s not the be all and end all. STORY trumps it every time.

> but every time I went on fleet afterwards, in the past year, the only groups forming
> were for Rav and/or ToS.

That’s because you don’t need a group for EV or Karagga or even Denova anymore on Lvl60. Not even on Nightmare mode. A four-man-group can do these operations now, you don’t even need a real tank, a DPS that can taunt is sufficient.

Although that may be true (And I remember that when we did EV and Karagga I was with my healer sorc and barely had to actually heal anyone so yes, in the end I agree with you that they’re not as hard as they used to be), the rest I’ve stated still stands for a simple reason: For every player that would like to do an old op today, there are 10 that would rather do Rav/ToS instead because they’re the ones that drops the best gear and the old ones only “drops” achievement and/or decorations and sometimes those ugly Tirsa mounts, stuff that nobody is interested into anymore.

In poor words, this is what I see everyday on fleet:

-10x lfg for full run of ToS/Rav/random op that is GF at the time every 10 minutes;
-20x lfg for ToS 8sm from Lurker with “link achievement and have good gear” garbage every hour;

-1x lfg for any op that is not listed above and is not part of the GF rotation every 2 or 3 hours.

But luckily this will change in 3 or 4 months when they’ll hopefully receive a revamped interest by people with the upscale to 65.

Sounds like the problem isn’t the server, it’s you. Any op that isn’t the daily can be 2-4 manned with little to no effort. Sorry you can’t solo the most difficult encounters in the game, designed for full groups with actual coordination and decent gear. Oh wait, no I’m not.

Filthy casual

You can go around name-calling people while posting as anonymous and idiotic names, you still remain a poor crybaby. I’ve done my share of ops and cleared almost all of them without problems. The only ones empty in my achievement list are the ones I’ve never had the chance to do. Thanks to BW, I’ll be able to do them aswell.

With the upscale, all you Casuals that can’t be bothered to actually learn to play in a coordinated, performing group will be wiping on loading screen… So I would STRONGLY suggest doing them now before you get COMPLETELY out of your league… looool…

You stupid toddlers keep using that name. “Casuals”. Do you even know us or play with us? Cause I’ve personally done my share of ops already and I still do 1 or 2 per day whenever I can. Go take your childish elitism elsewhere and stop bothering us like you’re better than everyone else or acting like your words and opinions are better than anything else. You are the cancer of this community. Insulting others and saying they’re filth because they disagree with what you think is the undeniable truth is disgusting. Because news flash moron(s): You idiots are not the centre of the universe and the universe doesn’t resolve around you. You think BW should add 800 new ops and pvp maps just because you think anything else is worthless? If you think this damn game is not worth your money, drop your sub and go the fuck away from here. The majority of people that play this game doesn’t give a shit about raids. They only care about story content. And BW would be stupid not to focus on creating more story content to satisfy the majority of their own customers just so they could make a small bunch of elitists kids stop crying. If the 65%+ of subscribers where active raiders, it would have been a smart thing to do to drop story and do end game. But this isn’t the damn case. For every toddler of yours, there are at least 100 or 1000 other players that couldn’t care less about clearing the same instances over and over again 24/7.

Looks like I struck a nerve. GOOD. It seems to me you are a liar, since I carefully read my comments and don’t seem to find any insult whatsoever to anyone… So you do 1 or 2 Ops per day, you do? Well, either you are LYING and never set foot in one, or you are… Well, LYING, because you sir actually qualify as one of those filthy, dying fossils known as… Raiders… Got you there, buddy…

Calling people liars when you don’t actually know them is equal to insults. Are you on TRE, aren’t you? If so, tell me the name of one of your alts, I don’t have to prove anything to anyone, but if you’re a sad kid that likes to troll and accuse people without facts, I’ll come link all my raid achievements just for you.

Oh and another news flash, kid: just because you pay and play since launch, doesn’t allow you of acting like you, and those elitists like you, are better than everyone else.

Oh thank you very much, it’s not everyday that a 42 year guy with a wife and 3 siblings (2 of which are active TOR players) gets to be called a kid. On the insult note, you called me stupid, a cancer (good one that), a moron and an idiot. I called you a liar. You argue that calling people you don´t know liars is equal to an insult. Well, I put it to you that calling a moron, cancer, stupid and idiot even to people you DO know qualifies as an insult in every corner of this universe that “resolves” around you (loool). I will act as I damn well please, if you don’t mind. AND if you have sooo many Achievements, then… Welcome to the club mate. You are now a dying breed, a fossil, a minority called Raider. Sorry for calling you a Casual, you’re one of us, you just don’t know it. No need for my alts, if not for security reasons, you do 1 to 2 Ops every day, we’ve probably played together… Since there’s so very few of us:)

I don’t see anything wrong with that. My point was, that you don’t need a full group for the Lvl50 OPs, so you can easily run them with a few guildies or friends.

I actually have doubts about the old Ops being run that regularly after the expansion drops. They probably won’t put in new gear there, so there’s still no insentive to run those, aside from achievements. As soon as you got every achievement (If you are interested in those at all), they become boring again. Some of them at least have something unique, which is worth to run them (Architects’ wings anyone?), while others are pretty much useless.

Don’t like the changes, GTFO? Please, that’s narrow minded. It doesn’t matter what the actual percentage is of the playerbase that gets hosed by these types of changes. Telling them to get lost is harsh. That group of people are here because they like Star Wars, they like SWTOR, and they would like it to remain what it has meant to them. Many are probably much more dedicated and bigger fans than you are. It’s not like they can replace it with another title that means the same. They’re losing something special with this.

So, be it PVE end game, PVP, GSF, solo content, whatever, when one element takes a hit the game suffers and strong supporters of that group get hosed, indirectly the game overall changes and takes a hit. Don’t be childish just because you aren’t the one getting hit.

What’s especially sad about this one though is it most affects the part of the population that has been with the game since the beginning and are very dedicated end game players. You’re talking about people who’ve spent literally thousands of hours in the raid scene alone and really enjoyed it. They’ve been strong supporters of the title and helped sculpt it into the title *you* love. Now they’re told to swallow a huge pill by BioWare and get lost by comments like yours, classy.

“What’s especially sad about this one though is it most affects the part of the population that has been with the game since the beginning and are very dedicated end game players. You’re talking about people who’ve spent literally thousands of hours in the raid scene alone and really enjoyed it. They’ve been strong supporters of the title and helped sculpt it into the title *you* love. Now they’re told to swallow a huge pill by BioWare and get lost by comments like yours, classy.”

This. tyvm

“What’s especially sad about this one though is it most affects the part of the population that has been with the game since the beginning and are very dedicated end game players. You’re talking about people who’ve spent literally thousands of hours in the raid scene alone and really enjoyed it. They’ve been strong supporters of the title and helped sculpt it into the title *you* love. Now they’re told to swallow a huge pill by BioWare and get lost by comments like yours, classy.”

This. 1000x this.

They are giving out class specific loot for participation and gave you more ops to run. THey aren’t new ones, but at least you got more of them to play instead of 2.

QUALITY OVER QUANTITY. Stop being bad, you are what is wrong with the community.

It’s not narrow minded at all. If you don’t like something, why are you still here demanding the opposite?

Nobody likes to do the same things over and over (Be it dailies, ops, fps, story missions), nothing to say about that. I don’t like it either, but. BUT. If you don’t like something and the developers have clearly stated 1 month ago that things won’t be the way they want this for the time being, why are them still around making demands? What isn’t new content for 5% of people, is actually new content for the remaining 95% of them. Why? Because that 5% only plays 2 ops (Instead of how many there are? 7?) and even if you wanted to do something different you can’t because nobody cares about “old” stuff.

Nobody is forcing you to go away, but nobody is forcing you to stay against your will either. If you’re still playing the game and doing the same 2 ops (Rav/ToS) over and over every day and then come here and rant about how boring end game is because of “lack of new content” why are you still playing it? Why are you demanding BW to change things and add new contents just for the sake of it? Because you think the game will die without new end game content? Wrong.

You can say a lot of things about BW (Or greedy EA for that matter), but they’ve been in the videogame business for 15+ years and if they think that a story driven expansion is more viable than an end game driven expansion for their own mmo, who are you to say otherwise? Just because it’s labeled as mmorpg?

Again, you don’t like where this game is headed? Then why are you still here whining about it?

And the setting argument may have been a valid point, but it isn’t. When you’re doing an op you don’t care what you are, what you are up against (Mobs and bosses) and the scenery around it. You only focus about not getting wiped out, making sure tactics work and clear the instance.

Sure, Eternity Vault for example has one of the most breath-taking scenery I’ve ever saw (When you enter the prison and look around you, near the beginning) in my 15+ gaming “career”, but just by looking at a screenshot without labels or logos, would you recognize it a Star Wars-themed raid or a generic futuristic-themed raid? Be honest about it, half the content in the “end game content” looks very generic, if it wasn’t for the light sabers very few would recognize a Star Wars setting in any screenshots from any operation (Or pvp for that matter) if it was un-labeled without any SWTOR logo on it.

You’re trying to defend a change in direction and a lack of lip service that doesn’t impact you at all. Moreover you’re calling us out that are here asking BioWare to do what they set out to do when they developed this title and how they planned to cater to the raid scene which is now under fire. We were told they’d do X, they did X for a while, they promised they wouldn’t not do X, and now they’re not doing X. So the only people that are insisting on opposites or back peddling is BioWare, not us my friend. We’re vocal and here because what was status quo and their plan that got a massive monkey wrench thrown in it. Like it or not that’s a fact, just be thankful it doesn’t impact you or the way you play it, at least this time around.

What a minority wants =/= what a majority wants. 95% of people want more solo content. 5% of people want new raids. SWTOR is not the game that offers that. SWTOR is not the game that is focused on end game raids and/or pvp. Not anymore, at least. Deal with it. You can make demands and threats of quitting the game all you like, you’re boring and look like a bunch of toddlers. Yet, nobody will hear you because you have become a minority here.

Why would BW spend money and resources to satisfy the 5% of their player base when with the same (Or less) money they can satisfy the remaining 95%? If you think the game is dead or will soon be because of no new raids and/or pvp-related stuff, just leave it already cause things won’t change for at least 1 year and a half. Even if you leave, they won’t go bankrupt without the income from you that are only the 5%. For every “hardcore raider” that leaves (Or threatens to do so), they “earn” 10 more new subs that come for the solo content. They lose 13€ a month from a single “hardcore raider” sub that leaves? They earn 130€ a month from 10 new subs that will play only the story and the occasional fp, raid, pvp.

Wow, do you even read our comments? That wooosh sound over your head, that was the point you missed. Keep it classy.

No idea where you are getting your numbers from. I heard 98% of all statistics are made up.

MMO (Or MMORPG as SWTOR is labeled) is an acronym that stands for “Massively Multiplayer Online (Role Playing) Game”. As the name suggests, it’s a giant role playing game where you can interact with other people. Nothing else. It doesn’t say anywhere that MMOs stands for raids and/or pvp or that just because a game like SWTOR lacks of “end game content” like 800 raids and 800 pvp maps is not a MMO or that it sucks as MMO. But talking with people that does a terrible job at trolling is pointless, so I’m done with you.

As I’ve said before, if you like what SWTOR has to offer right now and will offer in the next year and a half, stay subscribed and continue playing; if you don’t, nobody is keeping you in chains and you’re free to go where you think there is a better end game content experience. If you think SWTOR’s end game is bad, why are you still here? Why do you still play the same 2 ops over and over? I still have to receive an answer to this question. But probably, you won’t answer because you don’t know what to answer.

Because, news flash: not everyone gives a damn about raids or pvp or likes to do raids 24/7. There are people who loves the leveling process (And all related to it like the story) 1-60/65 more than raids or pvp. And if BW decided to focus more on the story than on the end game for KotFE, maybe is because that’s what the majority of the player base wants: more story-oriented content instead of more raid/pvp-oriented content.

By the way, it may be 5% of the population but it’s not 5% of the subscribed population. Everyone that I know playing this game is subbed b/c of ops/pvp. That’s why people are upset. We like the fact that there is new story. That’s cool, but we also want new endgame to go along with it. I myself will keep playing until the servers finally go down, but I’m not very happy with this decision.

Exactly. They are catering to the majority that is NOT subscribed, because they want their money. Filthy filthy casuals.

You know, you my friend have hit the nail on the head. The truth is, I have often wondered if I would be playing this if I wasn’t such a huge SW fan… Make that nerdy fanboy… And yes I do have a life, 42 with wife and 3 kids, so spare me all your “get a life” comments… And the answer is probably not, if this wasn’t Star Wars I would have gone already… I’m not going anywhere, I’ll bitch and moan until exhaustion to get what I think is proper for a SW MMO…

or you could start to form a group on your own instead of waiting for a miracle to see someone grouping for 50 lvl ops. Especially when you can finish them with 2 ppl in SM, 3/4 in HM and NiM.

I have noticed alot of players saying things are too easy and need to be more harder to do for it to be fun…….i find it funny how when it is challenging and hard to do, they go out of their way to make it as easy as possible…….its kinda counter-productive.

I am just glad there will be solo modes now for the flashpoints…yay!!!!….no more ‘SKIP NOW!’ type of hissy fits that most players put out there in flashpoint groups.

And how exactly are new players supposed to learn how to cooperate with a group? Filthy casuals

You mean the deeps-fests that require no tanks, no heals, and zero coordination? Yea, thats real good.

Well, its called learn as you play…..the problem with mmos now-a-days is that all players expect 100% expert skills and anything less then that, gets you kicked after about 5mins of childish hissy fits.

I already know how to work with other people, you learn that in real life, you don’t need to do that in a mmo, unless you are severely socially impaired and when it comes to tactical flashpoints, i find them awesome, not because its easier, but because there is no tank and healer requirements, which means that they can’t deem themselves masters of the group and make demands, which they always do in normal groups.

When it comes to Tactics for the group content, its much more challenging AND fun to learn them as you experience them, reading about it before the FP or Op actually starts just ruins the fun for me, maybe that is the problem now-a-days, where everything has to be read up on in advanced, which lowers the players’ skill at learning tactics on the fly.

Overall, i learn things better as i experience them first hand, i find it harder to learn by watching a video or reading a guide, i suggest that all raiders just stop putting tactics and strategies of group content on websites and then see how good you are at it.

“Learn as you play” doesn’t work if you aren’t required to learn prior to doing operations – where you should not be “learning as you play”

Actually, it does, you are just used to using a walkthrough to know how to beat it, it kinda defeats the purpose, i mean its like playing a murder mystery or a puzzle game for the first time ever, while already having the walkthrough for them…….a severe buzz kill if you ask me.

What exactly do tacticals teach about group cooperation? Because we clearly play in different versions of them. In mine, they are a straight up face roll.

AWWWW poor little baby not got any new toys.
Bye bye kid.
Dont let the door hit you on the way out. QQ………….

That is why I will never play in pug after KotFE release. PUGs on 55 lvl cap couldn’t clear DP and DF was making a lot of trouble. Now when those operations are scaled up, pugs will once again wipe over and over again. Especially if you consider the wave of new players.

Kind of disappointing. I appreciate that old operations and some of my favourite flashpoints are getting pushed to Level 65, but that’s definitely not a compensation for the lack of new operations. It’s OK that Bioware wants to focus on the casual player, rather than on End-Game players, to some degree. But completely ignoring those players, who played since launch day, is quite sad.

I wish we could see some breakdown on who actually spends money on SWTOR. I feel like if you don’t raid, there’s no reason to stay subscribed month after month. I feel like this slow-release of new story content is to address those casual players that subscribe for a single month to get an expansion, hit the new level cap, unsubscribe and go happily play flashpoints. Now I’m wondering if you have to stay subscribed each month to get the next 5 minutes of story. If so this could simply be their attempt to hold onto subscribers… but the story will have to be REALLY something to get those players to stay, and I’m not sure if BioWare can deliver. A lot of these “casual” players won’t appreciate their f2p model being screwed with.

So… while reading the comments here, I have trouble understanding people.

So everyone wants new content, and they give a new story that is promising to be full of surprises and memorable parts, and choices that will make the gameplay experience unique so you’d want to repeat it and choose the other paths with other toons, then monthly adding to it… but for some, that is NOT new content. 😐

So, new content for them is end-game, which currently is repeating the 2 current ops over and over and over again for months because they find it fun. Well, they will be giving us dozens of fps, 9 (9 > 1 or 2) end-game ops and 2-3 end-game ops bosses, but people are pissed because they want a NEW ops to replay 30 times, not redo the other 9, in a harder fashion… ok…

Why is a new op better than a more difficult current op? Because you get a new map with very short backstory in it, that’s usually making very little sense… like… fighting with some pirates that have absolutely no connection or consequences to the universe you’re in. Because the walls have a different color and the stairs have a different shape, and the models are a little tweaked, but in the end it’s the same thing….burn some bosses until you burn the big boss… fascinating, really.

“new tier of Elder Game gear, as well as new vanity rewards such as Mounts, Vehicles, and Decorations for your Stronghold.” Sounds good to me, but why it bothers people, I really don’t understand. “Even without new Operations, though, you will have a whole lot of content to play at
the level cap.” I think people didn’t read till the end, as their blood pressure rises and need to rage comment after seeing the NO NEW OPERATIONS quote.

People threatening to leave from the time they read any new article about changes. Um… are you on a mission? Do you hope to sway the minds of hundreds other players and leave the game dead so you’d feel avenged or something? You know, you could just… stick around and give it a fricking try, and if you don’t like the changes, then you could be entitled to leave. Making arguments based on imagination is not a good thing to do. And while you’re at it, make the complaint to Bioware’s customer support, so THEY’d know you are not pleased, as they don’t read dulfy’s comment section, you know.

Well, my 2 cents on the current change is that I’d wish we could choose the old way of doing a flashpoint. A new option, besides the current story, solo and hard mode… a classic mode, which does not lower your character’s level and power to the level of the Flashpoint. Because I like the occasional speed-running through very easy mobs for some achievements. For example: the “meatbag” title, in which you need to defeat HK-47 25 times each in HM False Emperor and the Foundry… I like to run them with my level 60 ninjas and kill just the bosses, but will be pretty impossible to find groups to help you do them in the future.

I don’t expect someone that isn’t an end game raider to understand it, but to not understand it and diss it is ignorant. The challenge and draw in end game raiding is primarily to encounter a boss and with their team learn how to work together and down it. It’s as far from solo content as you can get, the team has to have synergy and execute varrying strategies and be on their game to down it. Gearing up from one boss brings the next boss into the picture and the cycle repeats itself. Yes, this isn’t for everyone, but some find this very fun and this is the time tested forumula for MMORPG raiding.

Now, if you don’t have another boss to then go find and do this all over again with, the scene gets stale. It requires that a legitamently NEW boss come into the picture at some point that you can begin from zero with. Adding a mode that changes one mechanic or adds a higher DPS/HPS threshold isn’t NEW, it’s just more challenging. You’re still doing the same boss otherwise and it’s not going to change the stale factor much.

So, for any real end game raiding scene to flourish, you need to have a set vertical progression with new zones and bosses getting released. Here the people in this scene are being told to rewind four years and redo them all again waiting until some possible future point where they may add a new raid. Thus the scene is stale and that’s not good.

Preach. Filthy casuals have no idea what MMOs are supposed to be about, or what makes them fun. Doing the same operations you have been doing for four years is not fun, it’s boring.

And yet, there are only, what, sixteen or so ‘progression’ groups that usually complete nightmare mode of any operation on-level. If you don’t like the way Bioware is headed with SWTOR, please leave. The majority of players are casuals that are fine with the way it is headed.

“We know that many players love our Operations and look forward to the introduction of new challenges, however with Knights of the Fallen Empire there will not be any new Operations.”

Reject the tyranny of Or when it comes to choices like story vs new end game content.

My guild is stuck on HM Lurker/Torque… we are not hardcore raiders… I would call us casual raiders. I would say most guilds like us are stuck there. And most of us see this a a death of cooperative play and BW getting ready to shut the game down (might be 2 years from now but still). Why put time/effort into making new OPs when once they get this new 16 chapter thing done, the general feeling is that is where they will end the game.

ITs because its NIGHTMARE MODE its supposed to be compleated by small % of whole raiders, not to mention whole game community. ONly story modes are for everyone (excluding complete retards).
Not everything has to be easy, and its more satisfing to kill one new difficult boss after one month of wiping than doing all the operations on which u alrady spend weeks on NIM and know them all in smallest detail once again.

Stop defining what MMOs are supposed to be about, because you clearly think you hold the absolute definition. MMO RPG – look it up, it means a ROLE PLAYING GAME. Not a healing or tanking role, but a role in a story. There are probably a dozen things MMOs are supposed to be about, and you can see only one, which is sad, really.

I understand your points, still , isn’t more operations at end level better than just the two there are out currently? So this is an improvement, even if not as big as you were hoping for.

Quality over quantity, scrub. Two or even one new encounter, different and more involved than anything before it will trump your dozens of rehashed encounters all day, every day. Filthy casuals, I swear.

It’s a mixed bag. One one hand these changes force new life into the old raids and people who haven’t seen them countless times will get to enjoy them, thus these changes will be great for newer players. However, on the other hand it is telling older raiders to go redo what we have raided literally hundreds of times, because it’s now relevant again and the only option. We don’t mind them being revamped for level 65 as much as it pains us to have no other option than raid what we’ve already raided for years. You wouldn’t have heard nearly anything like this outcry if they announced just one new raid zone with the expansion.

Exactly. Just one new operation, and all of this anger would never have surfaced. But no, instead it’s “Let’s just tune all the old crap to 65 and call it a day”

when a new ops comes out, everyone just jumps on youtube and learns all the dance moves for it, from people that play it on the test server, in advance anyways. So no one actually “learns” the op the intended way, and after that, they just grind it to tedium. So theres not much point in having new ops anyways. This variety of old content will actually create more alternative runs to the tedium.

I see a few people keep forgetting that “filty” casuals are the ones that pay the bills over at Bioware, since less than 10% of the players never reach end game. Not those 2-5% hardcore raiders that like to spend half their day failing and wiping and shedding tears after finally getting over a challenge. Mind you, SWTOR was from the start a story driven
experience, the largest voiceover mmo ever created, that prided itself with the great story. When websites review the game, they applaud the gameplay, the story, the quality of content, the diversity of progression, but never the difficulty of the end-game.

That’s what made me finally join ops after some years, for content and story’s sake. I don’t have a very active guild, and I only was able do to Rav and Tos a few months ago since those damn filthy elitist raiders would not let people join, because they had to have the achievement, to prove they’ve previously done it before. Is this what you think the game was really about? Putting a rift between players, having to put up with discrimination just to try out some new content? Is that “what an mmo is all about”? Is that “fun”? I say bull!

Great idea that all players can now experience all the ops and fps and seeing all the content!

The devs are doing their best to please everybody… rp-ers, pvp-ers, raiders and casuals.
Whenever they do something for the greater good of the player base, whiners are feeling cold and left out and look for virtual shoulders to cry on so… stuff your “filthy” opinions in the back door of the Temple of Sacrifice HM.

So if we want to grind a flashpoint repeatedly to try to get a particular drop because you wanted it for its appearance, instead of being able to, say, steamroller Hammer Station as a level 40+ until you get the drop you wanted, your only option will be to run it bolstered to level 20 in a group or do it solo — again, bolstered to level 20, so you can’t do the FP by yourself — but you’re given a godbot that takes away all the ‘difficulty that is intended’?

Farming will no longer be possible. Better get your Meatbag title and Emperor Statues while you can.

which means you can do it by yourself. My guess is that because you and the god bot will be at the level of the fp, it will not be as much of a roflstomp as it is no as a level 60 doing lowbie stuff. So you can farm but not as quickly anymore. Personally I think that’s an improvement because I don’t care for this easy farm mode.

Speaking of farming, I wonder if our newly-created 60s will be able to touch the dailies (Section X etc) our old level 1s can do having reached the appropriate level?

I’ll say it this way. I myself love the end game part of Swtor. I do ops (sm and hm), pvp, and fps. I am exited for the old stuff to become relevant with new mounts, decos, etc. I am not excited tho b/c it’s says No Operations with KOTFE. I would be fine waiting towards the end and getting one, but None? That’s a little ridiculous imo.

Looks like they are trying to make lv 65 swtor the base game. and from there add on new and more stuff at every lv cap. but keeping these lv 65 ops there…

They will gain lots of subs on the release but what happens later? Do they really expect that people will pay monthly for a pseudo single-player game wherein you pay $15 for 2h or 3h update? Better to save up the money worth three-month subscription and buy Witcher 3 with 100h+ content.

Sure, but you’re forgetting that it’s the 10% who sub that actually pay for the game. Let’s create content for those that don’t pay versus those that do pay, cause that makes sense? I don’t mind paying $60 once for a solo RPG single player game, but if I pay $180 per year for a subscription to an MMORPG I expect it to cater to multiplayer content. Just saying.

That’s not what it says at all.

“Less than 10% of our player base seems to be primarily motivated to “get to the end”; the rest choosing to experience the story that exists.Furthermore, this insight is another motivating factor for the 12x XP program and the more recent Epic Story XP Boost”

That can mean anything, including not utilizing the fastest means of leveling prior to the Epic Story Boost: Endless KDY farming.

Or, more likely, it meant that players typically do their class missions first, while filling the rest of the time doing flashpoints, pvping, and planetary missions.

It has NOTHING to do with what people do once they reach end game.

Lorien… You can read analytics wrong. Just like you can make statistics say anything you WANT them to say.

I think you guys misunderstand me. I do raids and Like you I would have loved to have new ones. I was just trying to provide you guys with some answers as to why this is happening. One point I do not agree with tho, is that I really don’t think subs are only those who do the progress with raids. I know a lot of people in my guild that pays their sub only so they can have those 22 char slot and enjoys all aspect of the story they even deliberately use the item that cancel 12x boost.

There are guild who are selling runs for Wings, It’s usualy around 15-20mil, which is not that much since some guild are that good you will get Gatecrasher title as well. Plus now with server transfer cost 90CC you can easily transfer to server, get wings, transfer back

You can 4 man EC NiM with group knowing what do to. I was lucky and in one run of 4 ppl we got tank drop from every boss 😀

“We know that many players love our Operations and look forward to the introduction of new challenges, however with Knights of the Fallen Empire there will not be any new Operations.We felt it was important to first address some of the issues with our Elder Game before moving on to new content.”

My heart just stopped for a moment. They (Bioware) listened.

To what? They needed to “fix” things 2 years ago. And who was complaining that the old stuff wasn’t relevant anymore? It’s not relevant because it’s OLD.

The what is the fact that this game buggy and unbalanced as hell (mostly pvp wise) and it seems like it’s finally being addressed. There’s a lot of sweet story content new players miss and now there may be some reasons to experience it.

I really like all this changes, running old stuff right now its just plain boring… at least you will have more to do than just run the 2 same ops to get geared…

And when you get geared by running the easiest op… then what are you gonna do? Oh yeah… nothing.

Think of it this way…. an op group of 8 can gear every toon in said op group in one night. 9 different ops… all dropping token gear.

Well as a player that just started a few months ago, i haven’t really had the time to run old operations, or flashpoints… and running them solo just beating everything isn’t fun at all…

and what will i do after i gear for pve? PVP of course, that never gets old…

It gets, thats why i stopped playing pvp: it indeed gets boring. Especially if u are theonly one, or one of 2-3 ppl who actually do ojctives…

So, “running old stuff is boring”, but you are glad you will have to run more old stuff than ever before…. Not much sense there

I’m no worried about no new OPS cuz we all gonna be busy with the new lv cap and new Chapters content until it shows up. Now, the only sad thing is that Tacticals is extremely easy. About solos fp, we all know too that is hard as hell to get a 10-50lv Flashpoint pop, so is not that bad after all. And BTW just quit if you dont like the game or its changes. Good luck.

Obviously they would give us more than a snippet of story if they are spending a year perfecting it. This will take us a while to get through not to mention other planets and missions that come with the story. Thats got to be better than a 40 minute story with two ops that will be passed on HM within a month or two. Not to mention there are other ways people can enjoy grouping in an mmo, theres more to swtor than progression

Busy with story? Typical MMO gamers burn through story quicker than you can say ‘ITS A TRAP!’

And telling people if they don’t like it just quit is the opposite of what anyone wants in a mmo.
More people playing and paying = better game.

If people want to solo play then why the hell play a MMO?
There’s better story solo games out there.

If you pay sub and/or pay for cartel market items then you have every right to want and ask for more. There should be in the expansion all that they said they’re doing AND new ops/fps and pvp warzones.

Its not wrong to want more.

Its wrong to settle for less.

The problem with this, is the statistics. You are assuming Bioware don’t have any data on this. The reality is, is that only a small portion of players do ops, so from a business standpoint it makes no sense to even make ops, if all that money and effort doesn’t even see much of a return. However, culture plays an important part here; Bioware is pressured under the belief that MMOs MUST have traditional endgame, even if barely anyone plays it. So the smartest thing to do is to make the traditional endgame as accessible as possible.

As it currently stands, only people who A: have a reliable group of 7 to 15 people will be able to see/down the content, B: people who have a forgiving life schedule to make this game a second life, particularly if A is not met. Having a group of people who can help you out, can cut hours of playtime down, meaning even people with jobs can do endgame, C: Prefer the farming/grinding required to gear up to even see these raids, and D: Just so happened to be playing SWTOR at the right moment. You can leave SWTOR thanks to this news if you want, and go to WoW, but tough shit, WoD just ended, and no new raids will be released till next expac, and all the raids have been put on farm already. I

f they decide to reverse this decision, then everyone who left, took a break, got busy with life who comes back will be unable to play the previous endgame, and must play catch up, which lowers incentive to play even more. The tendency for companies to even do this makes little sense, and thankfully the market has shifted as such that if endgame is to be traditional, it needs to be more widely accessible. FFXIV is a good example, the level sync, and the duty finder do a good job of making their raids widely accessible, combined with an easy way to gear up to play catch up quicker. Especially since their duty finder includes pretty much every raid all of the time.

Stop being lazy. Pugs down story modes all the time. Just because you would rather have shit handed to you doesn’t make you casual – it makes you a selfish prick.

you make a good point but endgame is like a ghost town now because of the disaster that was Shadow of Revan.
No new pvp warzones so pvper’s were unhappy and bored.
Flashpoints that only point to do was for stronghold decorations, the comms that drop from these are useless..Ultimate comms used to be good for getting mods or an enhancement you wanted or at the very least gear your companion but this is no longer the case.Weekly yavin gears comps in 192 and a few runs of story mode ops will sort your main out too. And when they were first released with SoR the comm drops were terrible.
Then we have probably the worst 2 operations ever released in SWTOR..ravagers and TOS are really poor.
Take the bugs/glitches and exploit it pretty much ruined it for raiders..
not forgetting the boss fights are the worst in the history of the game..some of them are shockingly boring.
When people had grinded Dread Fortress and Dread Palace for over a year then handed these terrible operations it made alot of people look at the door and think what else is out there.

Never got into GSF but there were people that played it in my guild…no idea where they are now..but they ain’t logging in for story.

Imagine story is the most active due to many reasons..but can’t help but think its part of the reason is bad endgame and some are thinking ”well I have nothing else to do may as well do that sage story I haven’t done yet..after all theres a 12x xp boost”

Of corse it does, such idea isnt inherently bad, actually the oposite. BUT FFXIV also releases new content with every major patch, BOTH story and raids/primals/dungeons. And playing catch up in FFXIV is as troublesome as in every other game, as u need to finish story to get acces to most content, including WHOLE expansion and they added so many story quests between 2.0 and 3.0 that it took me 4-5 days of playing for 4h per day to finish it before expansion was released. And that were just lvl 50 story quests, im not counting whole lvling to 50 i did earlier and getting two other classes to high 30s for cross skills.

And then you still need item level of 170 to even enter new raid (which is also story driven btw, so story lovers (like me) will most likely want to do that), and getting such takes time, as u have to get lots of comms, and the best source is duty roulette daily, and u have to queue solo for that.

On the contrary in starwars u can lvl with 12x EXP and make character in like 20h of gameplay, assuming u wach all the cutscenes (without it can be even 10h) then your guild can boost you trought sm op so that u get whole set of 192 gear in one run of each op. And then u can do first bosses on 16m HM, even if u have like 10 ppl so that such person gets also relics and implanst with rating 198. Fast and easy. Takes no more than 24h to lvl and gear up character with basic gear. Then u just go to the gtn buy augs and put them in ur new gear. (even if u strggle with money, story quests for lvls 55-60 give a lot of money, so if u dont spend it on who knows what). So yeah, in which game it is more difficult to “catch up” to your friends who already play the game? And i know it from experience, as atm im waiting for my friends to reach 60.

And for those crying they have small guilds and have to ask other guilds for help (read bout that somewhere above): Its your fault for making so many 1-5 ppl guilds instead of joining already existing one (back when i used to read general on fleet there was no day i wouldnt se someone asking for help in creating guild).

On the other hand FFXIV makes YOU want to play low lvl dungeons, be it for low level dute roulette bonus or just to lvl up anoter job and that is awesome system and that is what i always thought swtor lacks, motivation for players to go do low lvl flashpoints. AND SORRY BUT 12x EXP, WHICH SO MANY PPL ARE HAPPY WITH SUPPORTS THE OPPOSITE. It was nice as one time event, but they made it permanent and You get what u get. That is what i hate about BW: despite having all this data (on which u base ur opinion about ops) they keep making stupid decisions! If low lvl flashpoints had so low population why give every sub, who were the only ones that had motivation to actually do them more than 3x per week a boost to story exp so big it made flaspoints as a good means to lvl your alt obsolete.

And u want everyone to bleive they are making their decisions based on any data? Seriously?

I ranted for quite a bit…
In short u are missing the point, if they added new ops/pvp maps and ON TOP OF whats described in this article no one would say anything negative. Hell, even if they just announced new ops in reasonably close future it would be ok. And they would announce new ops if they were planing to do one.

And FFXIV shows u can make raids along with new story content, even including them as part of the story (well, primals and dungeons are part of the main story, raids have its own separate one, but u get the point. And primals are just a single raid bosses in an instace), making everyone happy.

Most people (PUGs) can’t even clear SM ToS and can’t clear SM Rav without at least a wipe or two. Few even dare to do Colossal Monolith. Not to mention there are still pugs that FAIL BADLY at old content like HM DF and HM DP. And soon these will be boosted to L65 difficulty. Personally I’m not surprised that there aren’t any Ops coming with KOTFE.

Besides i was actually wondering when i read the plot for the endgame story, how we would be able to take down the emperor in an op. This new story arc introduced explains it all. People may hate it now but there is a chance we might get more out of this than a couple of ops from a small quest chain.

I love the argument. “What part of MMO don’t you understand”, as it makes no sense “What part of RPG dont you understand” it is, after all, an mmoRPG – and btw, who said MMO = RAIDING/FLASHPOINTS/OPS? Elitist bovine excrement.

So your argument is that a MMORPG is aimed at solo players?
Always thought that RPG’s are for solo players and MMORPG’s are aimed at people that want to share the experience.

Cant the paying costumer have both story and endgame content? (endgame content in all mmorpgs is Raiding/fps/pvp)

No, you are putting words where they do not belong. Stop twisting words and listen … read those words and understand. IT IS BOTH, but only elitists demand that MMO stands for the above. Not all MMO’s have Raiding/fps/pvp in endgame. What they have in common is a large player base that can interact with each other simultaneously.

And since when do RPGs stand for solo play… since RPG term was coined, with PEN AND PAPER roll/role playing, it was normally a group event.


Name any MMO that doesn’t have endgame ops/fps or dungeons/ pvp ?
Thats pretty much the foundation of every MMORPG thats ever been.
Once you get to endgame thats whats there to keep you playing.Story finished what now? oh I know gear and rep grind…Thats pretty much MMORPG games in a nutshell.

No one is demanding no story and only ops/pvp/fps. people want both.
When they say we’re giving story but thats all people have a right to be annoyed.
Trust me you’d be pissed if they said new expansion with pvp/fps and 1 operation oh but zero story.
People have a right to want both they are paying for it..this ‘free’ expansion aint free..subers and mainly cartel buyers are paying for it.

Second life is NOT a MMORPG.

Even the creator says is not.
Hes says its a virtual life and has no adjectives.

Check it out on wiki

Give it a rest… Massively Multiplayer Online.
Massive = forming or consisting of a large mass
Multiplayer = denoting a computer game designed for or involving several players.
Online=controlled by or connected to another computer or to a network.

BTW, everyone ELSE calls it an MMO. Just because some one says a thing does not make it correct.(even if it is the creator).

You are picking gnat shit out of pepper.

Lmao so your point is valid even though i proved you wrong..your awesome at this argument game.

“Judge we have evidence of his guilt but he refuses to acknowledge it..”
“then he is innocent of all charges, free to go”

You have amazing logic

You haven’t proved anything… still waiting. Do a quick search, and you will see that virtually EVERYBODY ELSE is calling Second Life an MMO.

You can call it anything you want but if the game is classed by its makers as NOT a MMORPG then you sir are wrong..fact.

You can call a cat a dog with a thousand other people still doesnt make it a dog

Does it meet this criteria:

Massive = forming or consisting of a large mass
Multiplayer = denoting a computer game designed for or involving several players.
Online=controlled by or connected to another computer or to a network.

Then its an MMO.

Is it classed by its makers as a MMORPGA nope? Then again for the third time you are WRONG

What does it matter what the maker classes it as… it meets the required criteria to be called an MMO, therefore, … do the friggin math.

Use basic inductive reasoning:

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

Yeah but you’d class it a swan with your mad logic…
“I dont care what people who developed and created and worked on this calling it a MMORPG..why? Cause it’ll mean I’m right and I’M ALWAYS RIGHT….even when I’m wrong”

A rose by any other name…. IS STILL A ROSE.

and … the “ALWAYS RIGHT….even when I’m wrong” bit is the pot calling the kettle black.

An apple is an apple, even if you want to call it something else. Just because you are the grower of the apple doesn’t make you right in calling it something else.

Mad logic? Pure logic.

Not if a biotanist says its not a rose..
youd argue with the specialist saying it looks like a rose so it must be a rose. …he’d go but its not…
and your answer would be your wrong!

Just cause it looks like something and you want it to be something doesnt make it so…you cant just relabel things to your own personal convenience

My gods man, what you are saying is even if the botanist is wrong, we take them at their word. USE YOUR HEAD A BIT, stop projecting. This is not rocket science. This is basic inductive reasoning that should have been taught by the 2nd grade.

We are now beating a dead horse here. There is not much more to be said. I simply pray I do not have an encounter with someone as special as you. Here endeth the lesson.

Lol i just glad i dont live in your fantasy world..
you call things as it pleases you not what it actually is.

“Hi chef nice cake”
“Its a pie”
“No chef youve made a cake”
“No i made a pie”
“Look chef im always right and its a cake”
“I made it..its a pie”
“No your wrong chef..i know better than you, better than everyone on earth”

Wow this is the saddest thing I’ve read all day. I feel a lot better about my life now guys, thanks.

I am confused… Weren’t you done “arguing with pigs”, like, 10 posts ago??? You must really like pigs… But please, don’t stop, most laughing I have had in quite some time…

Omg… it must be really fun living in your own little world… If only other people could join… No wait, that would be an MMO… Sorry about my comment, keep thinking you are the only one right, and the rest of the world doesn’t exist…

We will have lots of dugeons and raids for level 65. They just won’t be new. This is what you must understand. We will have 7 level 65 raids. Games like Aion and GW2 don’t even have raids. But games will develop in their individual ways because of the players. Sad for you but the majority of players apparently are not raiders in this game. I know I am, but I also like the other stuff, so I really don’t give a rat’s ass whether it fits someone else’s definition of an MMO. It’s a pointless discussion. Why would BW bring out tons of raids if only a small percentage of players actually raid? It’s not cost effective at all but twist it anyway you want, level 65 will know more group content than the game has ever had. I get that some people are disappointed but I am someone who does a lot of ops and I am not disappointed. Also I am glad they focus on subs again. F2P is a scourge on MMOs. Nothing against F2P players but it brings all kinds of unwanted crap with it like lots of gold seller activity. We didn’t have that before F2P came. F2P people don’t pay, so you have no right to complain about free stuff in my view. As you say, subbers and cartel market buyers are paying for it. Do you think it’s free for BW to build and run this game? Of course it has to be paid for. Duh.

Well we’re moving the goal posts quite a bit if you’re now arguing that I shouldn’t be able to play through the story with a friend.

Twisting words… wow, stop putting words in my mouth. You are saying that you cant complete the story with a friend. You can complete the story with a friend, at least most of it. Even in Pen and Paper RPG’s, there are times when the GM/DM needs to solo an individual for flavor and story reasons.

“Never wrestle with a pig, you’ll both get dirty and the pig will enjoy it.” I am done arguing with pigs who enjoy nothing better than twisting words to suite their ideal.

You mean like how you’re twisting MMO to somehow mean solo content? Who’s the elitist here? I’d say the one calling people pigs.

What?!? OK then.. I never said that MMO = solo play. This is classic… You can’t argue the facts, so you say I said something I never did so you can turn the conversation away from the fact your argument doesn’t hold water.

Then you continue saying the same thing in the hopes that you will garner support for your issue, thought it has been proven that I never said what you said I said.

This is called a straw man argument:

“A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent’s argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.”

“The so-called typical “attacking a straw man” argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent’s proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., “stand up a straw man”) and then to refute or defeat that false argument (“knock down a straw man”) instead of the original proposition.”

^^ Proves he doesn’t even know how the new content works even though the information is available. Idiot.

Basically, people are raging not because they didn’t receive end-game
content, but because the end-game content is not to their likings. While
this announcement shows more end-game than the game has ever had at any
point (do the math: sum up all 50, 55, 60 end-games plus the old fps
that weren’t end-game). But still people whine that are being ignored
and are quitting because devs are mean to them and they only care about the players that have the nerve to want to play the same content as they do.

Content that has been farmed by these people for 3 years is not new content. We already have it. Boosting it to level 65 is meaningless, and is just a sad attempt to get us to spend more time doing them.

The vast majority of people who play this game have not seen these ops. Only a very small percentage of players see these old ops, and the current ones, and even less actually down it. Spending months making new ops that only a small portion of players even get to see, let alone down them (especially on higher difficulties) isn’t smart, especially when these same ops will see no use after they’ve been rendered obsolete due to the gear treadmill.

This is why WoW may have a lot of content, but the vast majority of it is not seen. Most people who play MMOs aren’t hardcore raiders, they’re casuals, and this change allows them to experience old ops and flashpoints, at their intended difficulty. Seriously, this is one of the reasons Wildstar got hit hard. Most people have NOT farmed these ops, and haven’t even seen them, and without this change, they never would have, at least not with the intended difficulty. You can’t just go back and fight Soa like you can fight Revan, and have it be just as hard as it was on release. You can try, but that’s such a major hassle, that most players are simply going to level to max level instead.

This was the smartest decision Bioware could have done. Instead of copying WoW, where the only players they largely cater to is an extreme minority, they should be trying to satisfy as many as possible. This was a step in the right direction. New ops will come, and now the old and current ops come Fallen Empire will see much more play then they ever have, and unlike WoW, it won’t be in a faceroll Raid Finder setting. This decision satisfies a hell of a lot more people than the usual “release 1 or 2 new ops that in a few months will never be played again, and didn’t see much use anyway beyond 10 to 15% of the population.”

Being lazy isn’t the same as not being able to. You can go and do each and every op from 50 and 55 with 2-4 people, and if you ask around, there is always going to be someone else that wants to do it.

Stop being lazy, filthy casual.

Whatever explanation helps you sleep at night. The reality is, is that seeing the ops and downing them easily is not the same as seeing and doing them as they’re meant to be done. Upscaling the old ops to level 65 and retuning them to be challenging again is better than simply catering to minorities such as yourself who deny the realities of business, and disrespect the preferences of other human beings.

Nice to know you have the reading comprehension of a nine-year old. Bad thing for a “filthy casual” to be better than you at a basic skill. Take your own advice, stop being lazy, and read my posts properly.

Funny, I read it. Apparently I read if faster than you could “comprehend”. If only you put as much energy into finding one other person to do classic ops with as you do typing pages of nonsense on topics you have no place in.

Then you must be dyslexic, because my posts make it clear that it is about the difficulty. I state this several times; I make it CLEAR that you CANNOT do the currently existing ops as they were originally intended. You CAN fight Soa, but he will NOT be hard, as he was originally.

I’ll be generous and assume you’re lying. I don’t believe a person has to repeat themselves three plus times in the same post, only to be misunderstood, despite the clarity.

Have you ever formed and led a pickup raid of 72 people? Raided for 12 straight hours? Been called in the middle of the night on a phone tree because your once a week contested raid mob popped and the Asian guilds were forming raids to down it? If you haven’t done that, you’re a filthy casual yourself. Go play WoW.

True, classic operations are pretty easy to two man. Granted some people don’t have the time to find a group, but honestly if they don’t have the time to find a group now, what makes them think they will have the time when they aren’t able to be plowed through in twenty minutes?

Reality is a hell of a lot more complex than being in a state of permanently not wanting to spending hours finding a group, or being willing to do so. There are nuances; take the person who stopped playing SWTOR because of work, studies, or perhaps other interests. Or maybe they’ve just been burnt out. They enjoy the operations as they are, full group complete with friends, or just guildies who aren’t quite friends, but can’t, because Bioware doesn’t believe in replay value, or the longevity of content?

Maybe a person never liked raids, because they’ve always expected it to be this super grinding, life-wasting endeavor, and with this news, might try it, and see it in a new light? This change allows that; and I’m sure people who are willing to wait hours to find a group, can wait for new ops to come out. They’ll find something to interest them till that day comes. Whatever is appealing about doing something with a group of people can only be made better by making it more accessible to people.

Sure got a lot of excuses. Waiting hours? Exaggerate much? Making it more accessible? Than being able to do them all in twenty minutes now compared to an hour like they did at content? IDK what you are talking about dude, it is not as hard as you are making it out to be.

It is going to be far easier to do them now than it will be. Not only will it not take thirty seconds to kill each boss, but you will have to actually do mechanics, and kill all the trash you can currently skip. IDK how you figure this will make things easier, because that is ignoring realities.

This may be surprising but the Swtor community is largely like the CoH community. Most players do small instances with only a few like at most 100 players per server will raid. How many dedicated raid guilds are there? the answer is very few.

Do you even know how many guilds are forced to use people outside of their guild to raid in this game? Also do you realize how hard it is to deal with raid players because once Content is cleared they generally quit. This is why many guilds have to go outside of their guild to run a raid. Many of times when people gear out a character they tend to stop playing.

The biggest complaint about Swtor is that most of the player base want more story and less raids. The proof that raids do not work for Swtor is that for the last few years they have been churning out raids and it hasn’t really garnered more players. All the while people have been clamoring for more personalized story.

Wait, what? Who was churning what? Sorry, but one new op every year isnt “churning”, and once they tried making 2 at the same time they made it so bugged they cant fix it now, thats why u get this expansion and new lvl cap and recycled ops, as a smokescren.

You have no credibility . The game has been out for 4 years and has 9 raids. If you want raids go to WoW. oh wait…. a new raid completely makes an old one non-playable.

Yep… Look, it goes like this: people don’t WANT to spend the effort and time into developing game chops, simple as that. They want everything, yesterday. It’s not a problem with TOR, it’s a problem with our SOCIETIES. And I honestly can’t figure out people that say they’re happy because they are going to run Ops that they never did before… How??? They’re being scaled to 65! In my Guild we usually try to run older Ops to train people that haven’t really done much Op content, and it’s an easy way to get Elites or even a few Ultimates lol… Not anymore you’re not. And you said another very valuable point: it’s not the mobs that get you in Ops, IT’S THE MECHANICS! Yes, you can wipe DP Story mode if you have NO clue what you’re doing… Today! If it’s scaled to 65… omg, I think I’ll laugh to tears every time someone at the Fleet tries to get an Ops group going: “looking for 1(whatever) from 1st MOB on…” looooool…

It isn’t going to be at the “intended difficulty”. You will still be buffed to faceroll status, seeing as Story Mode is the only mode people are going to bother doing.

Hopefully it gets tuned so that the bolster is meant to simulate the proper gear requirements rather than a means to simply down it quickly. So it serves to prepare them for HM and NiM.

So is that a copypaste message or what? Because we weren’t talking about the people who haven’t done these before.

I get the direction this is going in. They’re not interested in retaining an old player base…the strategy is to get people to subscribe (for convenience), buy CC, finish the content and move on and come back later when there is more story.

this is a wet dream for EA…they don’t actually have to make a new game…just keep adding onto an old one and they can keep cashing in.

Dulfy, i suggest creating a poll on ur SWTOR section

Question do u like the plans fpr Operations and flashpoints in FE?
a) Yes, sounds cool i dont need new OPS/FPS
b) I Like the Idea of playing old OPs/FPS again, but only in addition to new OPs and FPS
c) I dont care for old OPs and FPs, i just want new Content
d) I wont play FE without new OP and FP Content

Sorry for my english, im not a native speaker

So u can hand the result of that poll to the english forums or the devs. dulfy is the best swtor page in the galaxiy, the devs will recognize the results of such a poll.

Taking a poll now is kind of pointless. It is going to happen. They are already working on the changes If they didn’t make them now people would be up in arms because “there isn’t enough content, they did nothing for endgame!” In the end what it comes down to is anything they do will make some people happy and really piss off others.

Though I like the idea of the solo mode, I don’t like the super robot that follows you around and completes the quest for you. They really need a better idea then that.

Also, I understand why they are raising all the ops to 65, but as I have always been in really small guilds, now we wont be able to 4 man the lower level ones just for fun/story. So, don’t like that idea 🙂

I believe it’s called queue up for a group to do a fp if you find the Jesus Droid boring. I actually agree with you on that point though.

With level 65. I guess the tier will be over 200. Flashpoints should drop elite-level tier, while ops should be a tier higher than those I guess, and new armor sets with bonuses, for the new end-game.

It looks like it will not matter what gear you have. If your gear is too good, then it will be reduced to fit whatever. If it is too bad, then it will be bolstered. Why do I need to gear up??? Maybe that’s why they are focusing on the story now!!!

Bolster will only be in story mode operations, so gear still matters if you want to progress any further than that.

Simple math: 542 comments on a dulfy thread from a single revelation that has caused panic amongst loyal players. Honestly, we barely see a few tens of comments per news. Perhaps some dev should take notice…

Oh they are taking notice, have no doubts about that. They have acknowledged that they do read some threads other than just the TOR site, and Dulfy being such a popular site I personally have no doubt they are aware of this…

I don’t care too much about raiding, but i’m one of the minority. You just shafted atleast 70% of your player base.

Actually, the minority are those who raid. Most players do not raid and they would be shafting noone. Where did you get this idea that 70% of the player base raid? My main is a Tank and I raid and I can list most of the people who raid on my server. The bulk of the 60s don’t…. this is across the spectrum. Raiding is for the minority.

I call bullshit that the minority raid. What do you do at 60 then? Flashpoints? No new flashpoints coming out, either. PVP? Well, there haven’t been any new maps for a long time there. About the only other thing to do at max level is dailies, and fuck if that’s what I’m going to stay subbed to do. Also, check the achievements of most 60’s. I’d say 70% is probably an accurate estimate for how many have ops achievements.

You can call bullshit and you are 100% wrong. If 70% of the players did ops than more ops would be made. You are just repeating what the ignorant hardcore players always say “WE ARE MAJORITY!”. If that was the case then 70% of all players would be in 196 gear and Ops and Flashpoint queues wouldn’t be as long as they are. The fact that Ops queues are long, the fact that there are very few hardcore ops guilds, and the fact that FPs are the way the majority of players get their gear all indicates you are 100% wrong,

You didn’t answer the question. What do you do when YOU hit 60? Flashpoints? PvP?
Here’s your problem: you are trying to queue for Ops instead of answering one of the dozens and dozens of Ops spams on fleet that go out each and every day.
Here’s your second problem: Why would Flashpoint queues be soooo long, if that’s what “the majority of players” do to gear up?
Here’s your third problem: Claiming hardcore raiders are “ignorant”, even though they are the ones that provide you with all the information you wouldn’t have otherwise about the game and classes you play.
You sir, are a walking contradiction that leads me to believe you have no idea what you are talking about.

What you do when you hit 60 now is get bored and unsub. Which is what I have done. 2-3 years of gaming coming to a close.