SWTOR 4.0 Immortal Juggernaut PvE Guide by Artorias

SWTOR 4.0 Immortal Juggernaut Tanking PvE Guide by Artorias.

Introduction to Immortal Juggernaut

Immortal Juggernaut is the defacto cooldown tank. With more cooldowns to offer than Assassin or Powertech, Juggernaut combines in your face playstyle with damage control like no other. With the changes in 4.0, no situation is without a retaliation by the Immortal Juggernaut.

Each challenge has recourses from your armory of defensives, so let’s get learning how to use them effectively, shall we?

Utilities

Skillful

clip_image002 Warmonger: Getting attacked reduces the active cooldown of Force Charge by 1 second. This effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5 second.
clip_image002[6] Deadly Reprisal: Taking non-periodic area of effect damage generates 1 Rage. This effect cannot occur more than once every second.
clip_image002[8] Unshackling Rage: When activated, Enrage removes movement-impairing effects and increases the Juggernaut’s movement speed by 50% for the next 6 seconds.
clip_image002[10] Path Carver: Sweeping Slash deals 25% more damage. (AOE fights only, sacrifice Deadly Reprisal.)

Master

clip_image002[12] Sonic Wall: Threatening Scream protects all allies within range, excluding yourself, granting Sonic Wall, which absorbs a moderate amount of damage. Lasts 10 seconds.

Select One of the Following

clip_image002[14] War Bringer: Force Charge enables your next Vicious Throw to be used on a target with any health level for 15 seconds after activation.
clip_image002[16] Emboldening Scream: Chilling Scream increases the movement speed of all allies within 8 meters, excluding yourself by 50% for 8 seconds.
clip_image002[18] Strangulate: Reduces the cooldown of Force Choke by 15 seconds.

Heroic

clip_image002[20] Intimindating Presence: Force Charge finishes the cooldown on Disruption. In addition, Saber Reflect lasts 2 seconds longer and generates a high amount of threat on all engaged enemies within 30 meters when activated.
clip_image002[22] Through Passion: Reduces the Cooldown of Enraged Defense by 30 seconds.

As I mentioned previously in the 3.0 version of this guide. Taking Consuming Rage is not optimal due to how Enraged Defense operates and the fact cleanses in End Game have at max, a 60 second cooldown per application, even with Through passion, the CD and lack of on demand use make it a sub optimal cleanse.

The threat gain of Intimidating presence is the quickest and biggest gain of threat through Saber Reflect. Off the GCD and massive in threat gen, the threat is fundamental in your opening/threat control.

In the end, only Sonic Wall is the only necessary tool in Masterful, all others in that tier either assit with damage, crowd control or raid utility, as such Skillful is a quality of life tier, be as flexible with it as you like.

Gearing and Stats Priority

With the change to a few stats, some big, some small, there are differences than back in 3.0 and before. Things are a bit crazy, especially with Tank stats.

As before defense is still the back bone of Immortal, as one of your cooldowns benefits greatly and in tree buffs gain from this stat as well as other aspects of the class as well. Priority is as it was before

Defense > Shield > Absorb

With 4.0, defense is now present in all mods, meaning every mod in your gear now hold defense in the new tiers of gear in 4.0, meaning our best and more sought for stat is plentiful. What has now changed is Shield and Absorb, now both share the same stat slot in implants, ear and enhancements while Defense now sits in its own slot, constantly being stacked. TL;DR: All tank gear is very defense heavy now.

Goal to head towards in SM Deceived (216) gear: 2639 (0xAug) Defense | 1569 (9xAug) Shield | 973 (5xAug) Absorb

  • Form: Soresu
  • Augments: Unlike Healer or DPS, you won’t be using Mastery, Alacrity etc. for your augments. You’ll primarily be using Shield and Absorb due to how plentiful Defense is in the gear. You’ll need to adjust these two values as you upgrade your gear.
  • Set Bonus: War Leader – 6 Piece (KOTFE Tier).
  • Armorings: With Endurance now giving a large point-to-point gain, Guardian armorings are more viable in their gain than Mastery’s contribution to force healing which was not the case before.
  • Mods: Warding Mods. These are the ones with defense in them.
  • Enhancements: Immunity or Sturdiness enhancements (Absorb or Shield). You will be swapping these around along with augments due to upgrades or gear changes.
  • Relics: Fortunate Redoubt (Defense Rating) and Reactive Warding (X amount of Absorb Shield).

What You Need to Know

Immortal Juggernaut hasn’t got the best passive mitigation of the tanks but to compensate for this, it has an array of soft and hard cooldowns to select from to reduce incoming damage in all situations as well as a new ability that assists in damage control. Unlike Assassin and Powertech, there is no passive stack management you need to worry about, all buffs are used and expired in rotation, but it’s how often you can keep these buffs rolling without hitch that you can minimize damage intake without having to relly too strongly on your cooldowns.

Through rotation you will gain various buffs which will increase base stats such as Absorb and Defense as well as pure damage reduction. Again, how and when you use these abilities is up to you but the better your priority and usage, better control of damage you’ll have.

Buffs

The following buffs are what will appear on your UI in rotation or situationally. Their presence (or lack there of) will show you how much control you have your damage intake.

clip_image002[24] Defensive Slashes: Each tick of Ravage grants Defensive Slashes, increasing your Defense by 2% per stack, final tick grants your third stack, giving a total of 6% for 6 seconds. (Buff duration is refreshed per tick for a total uptime of 8.7 secs.)
clip_image002[26] Aegis: Aegis Assault grants Aegis, increasing damage reduction by 3% for 20 seconds.
clip_image002[28] Rule of Two: When your Guarded target takes damage, your movement speed is increased by 30% for 6 seconds.
clip_image002[30] Sonic barrier: Force Scream grants Sonic Barrier, which absorbs a moderate amount of damage, lasts 10 seconds.
clip_image002[32] Blade Barricade: Retaliation grants Blade Barricade, increasing your Defense rating by 5%. Lasts 12 seconds.
clip_image002[34] Revenge: Parrying, deflecting, shieding or resisting an attack has a 50% chance to grant Revenge, reducing Force Scream and Vicious Throw cost by 1 per stack, stacks to 3 and lasts 12 seconds. Consumed on use.
clip_image002[36] Consuming Power: Aegis Assault grants Consuming Power, increasing Absorb rating by 3%. Lasts 20 seconds.
clip_image002[38] Mad Dash: Defense increased by 100%. Lasts duration of Mad Dash.

Debuffs

The following debuffs are applied by you in rotation which will reduce your enemies effectiveness against you and other members of your group.

  • Trauma: Targets damaged by Vicious Slash and Sweeping Slash receive Trauma, reducing all healing received by 20%, lasts 6 seconds.
  • Impaired: Targets damaged by Crushing Blow become Impaired, dealing 5% less Tech and Force damage to all enemies, lasts 45 seconds.
  • Unsteady: Targets damaged by Smash or Sweeping Slash become Unsteady, reducing Melee and Ranged accuracy by 5%, lasts 45 seconds.

Unsteady and Impaired should have a 100% uptime on your targets. Both are applied by AOE abilities, as such you can have them hit multiple adds in a situation to reduce their collective stopping power. Trauma will not be used in End Game besides maybe one fight.

Impaired will reduce the enemies effective abilities that you are unable to dodge while Unsteady will reduce the chance of the ones you can dodge from landing on you, cutting down their over all capability of harming you regardless of damage type.

Abilities

clip_image002[1] Mad Dash: Effectively a combination of Dual Saber Throw and Covered Escape. Causing damage between you and the 20m mark from the point you are facing, how ever the damage is on par with an unbuffed Sweeping Slash. Mad Dash if timed correctly will cause all damage on you to be resisted or dodged, meaning a large attack or series of them can be stopped if timed correctly. How ever keep in mind when using Mad Dash as it’ll relocate you 20m forward.
clip_image002[3] Aegis Assault: Replaces Sundering Assault and generates 7 Rage. Deals minimal damage and threat but grants two important buffs, 3% damage reduction and 3% Absorption rating.
clip_image002[5] Force Scream: A very important ability due to the buff it applies, Sonic Barrier. Deals moderate damage and can be used at range. When the damage threshold of Sonic Barrier is met, it fades.
clip_image002[7] Retaliation: An equally important ability. Retaliation has a low cost, is off the GCD, deals near equal damage/threat as Scream and applies Blade Barricade. Due to the nature of Retaliation, it can be used constantly to maintain a near 100% uptime on Blade Barricade.
clip_image002[9] Crushing Blow: Your strongest and highest threat generating ability. Also with it’s AOE capability (360° centered on your target) while Aegis is present on you, Crushing Blow is unmatched in the benefits it provides in damaging your target and securing their attention on you. Each use of Crushing Blow triggers your Retaliation to be usable, regardless of the situation, as such they should be used in pair.
clip_image002[11] Smash: A decent damaging 360° AOE centered on yourself. Has a near non-existent cost and is one of your highest for threat generating abilities, second to Crushing Blow in an AOE situation.
clip_image002[13] Ravage: A series of lightsaber strikes which grant 2% Defense per stack. Due to this new trait, Ravage should now be planned to be used before or after a Boss’ rotation may interrupt the ability. Make sure when you use it, you can pull off all three ticks to maximize Defensive Slashes.
clip_image002[15] Backhand: Dealing high amounts of threat and decent damage. Though it doesn’t apply buffs, it is free and worth the activation every time.
clip_image002[17] Sweeping Slash: A 180° frontal cone. A simple AOE ability to use on multiple targets. Though on single target, even with Path Carver, still deals less damage than Vicious Slash.
clip_image002[19] Vicious Throw: Now with War Bringer, Vicious Throw can be used in rotation and the opener for added damage/threat though its cost still remains (But is reduced by Revenge). Not necessary but helpful, this ability can be a decent filler.
clip_image002[21] Saber Throw: Now usable at melee range, Saber Throw provides a decent filler alternative to basic attack, dealing more damage and granting more Rage. Though it should remain outside most openers.
clip_image002[23] Force Choke: A DoT which grants Rage per tick. An average filler but worth while, Choke doesn’t generate a large amount of threat but is decent damage for an activation to coincide with your rotation.
clip_image002[25] Force Push: A filler, nothing more, nothing less. Doesn’t grant Rage and is weaker than Saber Throw, ideally you should never need to use this ability for single target rotation on a Boss.
clip_image002[27] Vicious Slash: Due to how generous the rotation is with Rage, especially now with Saber Throw, you will need to dump Rage. Vicious Slash is your best filler behind Vicious Throw due to having no cooldown, but lacks decent threat for opening situations.
clip_image002[29] Assault: Your basic attack. The rotation on top of changes allow you to generate more Rage than you can so easily dispense. This ability should never be needed, also generates the lowest threat of your abilities.

Raid Utility

clip_image002[31] Intercede: Leaps you to a friendly target, reducing their damage taken by 20% for 6 seconds and vastly reducing their threat. A good tool to assist your co-tank in their opener by dumping the threat of a DPS, to assist raid damage control or relocate you when needed. Should never be used on your co-tank unless in extremely precise circumstances.
clip_image002[33] Sonic Wall (utility): All allies within 15m of you will gain a buff similar to your Force Scream buff, absorbing some damage. Good for raid damage control during small AOE spikes though it isn’t enough, alone to mitigate large hits on team members.
clip_image002[35] Emboldening Scream (utility): When Chilling Scream is used, allies within 8 meters of you will have their movement speed increased by 50% for 8 seconds. How ever this buff will not apply to you. Keep in mind you will fall behind in high movement required situations if you do not use an ability such as Intercede or Unshackling Rage to keep up.

Cooldown

The most important part of this guide behind your opener. Cooldowns are the identity of the Juggernaut and their proper use is what will show if you know what you’re doing. The usage of these abilities will require your knowledge of fights and judgement to decide which will be needed when. Pressing a random red button for impending damage though effective is not as effective as pressing the right cooldown for the situation.

clip_image002[1] Mad Dash: With its 100% defense increase. Mad Dash will allow you to take no damage for the duration of its animation. If timed correctly, you can take a devastating hit from an enemy and come out of it in the same state as you entered your dash in. Risky with tight timing but worth it, Mad Dash will allow you to have a second trump card along with Saber Reflect for stopping potentially mortal damage to even you.
Lasts: Duration of animation. 45 second cooldown.
clip_image002[38] Saber Reflect: While active, Saber Reflect will redirect all single target ranged, force and tech abilities back at the user for the potential damage it would have inflicted on you (but is capped to stop overkill). Saber Reflect can stop a series of attacks which may add up to a harsh amount or one large hit which could be the end of you. Nearly every fight has an application for Saber Reflect, and if it doesn’t then it’s a near unmatched threat tool. With Intimidating Presence, it’s a fantastic threat tool, but if you need Reflect as a cooldown in the early stages of a fight, it’s best not used for opening threat.
Lasts: 3 seconds (4 w/mandatory utility). 1 minute cooldown.
clip_image002[40] Saber Ward: Increases your Defense rating by 50% and reduces all damage taken by Force and Tech attacks by 25%. Ward increases your chance to dodge an attack, meaning you will take no damage if Ward triggers successfully. Any abilities that cannot be dodged such as Force Lightning or Missile Blast, will have their effective damage reduced by 25%. Ward is best used for the former mentioned damage types as if it is used on the right damage types, it’ll cause you to take no damage.
Lasts: 12 seconds. 2:30 cooldown.
clip_image002[42] Invincible: Reduces all damage taken by 40%. While not increasing any stat pools, Invincible ensures all damage taken regardless of type will be reduced in their severity. How ever, as I mentioned above that Ward should be used with Melee and Range, Invicible should be used with Force and Tech attacks since it’ll reduce their damage by 40% versus Ward’s 25%. What this means simply is, against Force and Tech attacks, Invincible surpasses Saber Ward.
Lasts: 10 seconds (15 w/ Set Bonus). 2:30 cooldown.
clip_image002[44] Endure Pain: Your loan shark heal. This ability temporarily increases your total HP % and heals you to assist for the difference. This ability allows you to bounce back from prior damage. How ever, Endure Pain is only as effective as your ability to time it properly and to communicate to your healers. If your HP% falls too low, the removal of Endure Pain will bring you to 1HP (or somewhere dangerously low.) Informing to your healer that "Fake health falling off" should be enough for them to heal you out of any danger.
Lasts: 20 seconds. 1 minute cooldown.
clip_image002[46] Enraged Defense: When you fall below 70%, this ability becomes available. Granting 12 charges which heal when each one expires upon damage taken. Similar to Kolto Shell, this ability persists on your buff bar and will be spent depending on how frequent you take damage during the duration. Enraged Defense is optimal for a series of attacks or as an anti-DoT tool. If the enemy uses one big hit, Enraged Defense will only spend one charge and will not counter act the damage. Enraged Defense serves its purpose well if its heals can equal or exceed the damage you’ve taken during the buff’s duration.
Lasts: 10 seconds. 2 minute cooldown (1:30 with Utility).
clip_image002[48] Blade Turning (Passive): Activating Saber Ward grants Blade Turning. This buff increases your Melee/Ranged defense by 100%, allowing you to dodge all melee and ranged attacks for the duration. If you try and use Blade Turning purely to fend against a massive Force or Tech hit, it’ll only be reduced by the 25% protection that Ward provides.
Lasts: 2 seconds (5 w/ set bonus).
clip_image002[50] Adrenal: The new shield Adrenal absorbs 30% of incoming damage until its cap. This will passively reduce damage taken by all damage types until the adrenal burns itself out.
Lasts: 15 seconds. 3 minute cooldown

Rotations

When opening a fight, your priority, above everything else is to ensure the boss focuses on you. What this means is to make sure you’re the target of the boss from the moment the fight starts to the moment it ends or you need to swap with your co-tank. How ever, when threat is secure, this priority shifts to a defensive one, certain abilities will change in priority from level of threat to contribution to lowering DTPS while dealing damage and building resource.

Opener

swtor-4.0-immortal-jugg-opener

Above is the ideal opener for threat. Each ability from Crushing Blow until the first taunt is rated highest to lowest in threat. You can get away with using Aegis under a taunt window since it won’t cause you to lose aggro while your target is under the effects of your buff.

As for Vicious Throw, if you feel secure enough not to need it in your opener for threat, you can scribble it off and skip over it, it’s nice added damage but it’s not entirely necessary, it does require you to take War Bringer, so keep that in mind. I’ve also added the relevant buffs to their abilities above i.e. Sonic Barrier (Snc) indicated by the white and purple buff above Force Scream, the ability that grants it. This is just to get you familiar with what ability grants what buff.

When using Saber Reflect, it is deterministic when you use it, Intimidating Presence does not grant the threat prior to taking damage from your engaged target. You must wait until you’ve taken damage to activate Saber Reflect for threat, or else it’ll generate zero. Saber Reflect grants an insane amount of threat and is off the GCD. How ever, like I mentioned above, you should save Reflect for required cooldown situations if it is required within the first minute or so. You can squeeze taunts together to be more cautious if this is the case. If you are going to taunt fluff (use taunts constantly to keep building threat and forcing the boss to attack you) be aware of any impending swaps or mechanics, last thing you want is to be unable to swap due to both taunts being on CD.

Crushing Blow grants the highest threat and also impaires your target, reducing their tech/force damage (dmg). This also enables Retaliation for use, meaning you can pair it with your second highest threat generating ability, Backhand. Retaliation grants your Blade Barricade, increasing your Defense (Def). Following this is your third highest threat ability, Force Scream, granting Sonic Barrier (Snc). Vicious Throw is then used depending on your utility selection. Smash is finally activated with Taunt, the former applying your Accuracy (Acc) debuff to the target. From there you use Aegis to gain your last two buffs, Aegis (dr) and Consuming Power (Abs) and finally, Ravage is used, granting Defensive Slashes (Def) meaning all your buffs are now in play and your threat is secure you are fortified.

You may be asking; “Why don’t I use saber throw?” The answer is that Saber Throw generates barely any threat, only a bit more than Force Charge. In 4.0, the Rage generation of the spec is massive and you do not need any more Rage than what Charge and Enrage grants. You’re delaying the Threat generation of your rotation by 1.5 seconds, which is all the room a DPS needs to rip aggro from you. Saber Throw does a lot more harm than good. It does have its use.

swtor-immortal-jugg-4.0-opener

When Opening from range and letting the boss come to you rather than you to them (rare cases where this occurs example; Dread Master Tyrans, Revanite Commanders, The Dread Council). You substitute Saber Throw for Force Charge, you will build the exact same amount of Rage and do a small bit more threat in comparison. But there is only room for either your gap closer or a Saber Throw, not both.

Mid-fight Rotation

When in the middle of a fight, you’ll be constantly using the below abilities. Pretty much on cooldown as they branch eachother out in the opener. You may be strained here and there for Rage which is when you’ll need to use Saber Throw or Choke to gain extra resource when Aegis is on CD and you need to save Enrage for mechanics. The list below is your priority list for abilities if they are all off CD and you have resource to burn to use them all. The premise is to maintain your buffs, how ever if you have buffs active (such as Aegis) you can shift priority of it to below Crushing Blow since you have that buff. The duration (or lack) of the buff/debuff determines where in the rotation abilities like Aegis or Smash lie.

1. Retaliation (off the GCD, pair it with any of the following).

2. Force Scream

3. Aegis Assault

4. Ravage (Vs. Crushing Blow w/ 2-piece)

5. Crushing Blow

6. Smash

7. Backhand

8. Vicious Throw

9. Saber Throw

10. Vicious Slash

11. Force Choke (If you need some resource for impending costs)

12. Force Push

13. Assault

The highlighted abilites above all contribute to DTPS. Whether it be weakening your target or strengthening you, they’re all important to ensuring your damage taken is as low as possible. For things like Crushing Blow with your set bonus, it is optimal to delay Ravage by a GCD to get the Set Bonus buff vs. delaying Crushing Blow by 2.7 seconds.

AoE

swtor-4.0-immortal-jugg-aoe

Your AOE priority depends on if Aegis is active, the reason for this is because Crushing Blow, your strongest and highest threat generating ability is only an AOE when Aegis is present. If Aegis is not present on you and you find yourself in an AOE situation where you need to gain threat quickly (so quickly that you can’t spare the GCD for Aegis), you need to use Smash instead.

If you have an impending AOE situation arising, it’s ideal to shift Aegis to the top of your priority to gain the buff for the AOE requirement as such you’ll do more damage and have more snap threat on the targets.

Lastly, Mad Dash is AOE, how ever due to the benefit of it as a defensive cooldown and the damage output, it’s best saved as a defensive tool versus offensive. Keep in mind it’s a directional AOE rather than centered around you or a target, as such you may not even hit all targets with it and the threat output will be even lower than Sweeping Slash.

Things to Know When Tanking

Tanks are like any other role, you need to know how it works before you step foot into an instance. When you’re leveling you should get an idea of how your rotation works i.e. buffs, gaining stacks, what CD’s affect what abilities/damage and so on.

Becoming a tank is not impossible but difficult if you are not ready to learn the basic mechanics of combat. A tank first of all should sit down and look at the class they’re playing as many of the tanks diversify in play style, not by a lot but enough that each tank will feel unique, which is good. To get a better idea of how your tank operates, again look at your skill tree and buffs, even the tank specs tell you how you should be gearing also: Defense Guardian, Shield Specialist Vanguard and so on. But regardless let’s start from scratch.

Learn about threat. It is the mechanic which the entire premise of tanking is based upon. Your job as a tank is to control the boss and make it that the other roles can do their job without having to worry about survival or positioning. Threat is what determines if the boss is looking at you or them, make sure you and your co-tank are the top of the aggro table. Taunt and your rotation determine your aggro and the effectiveness of your rotation will determine how solid your threat is, hence why you see people discussing; AOE threat, high threat opener etc. It’s so they can ensure that upon engaging a target, that target will be fixated on them from beginning to end. And for the love of Lana Beniko’s butt use Target of Target! (Enable it in UI Editor)

clip_image002[52]

(It’s a tiny portrait of who ever the boss is looking at. If it’s not looking at you when it should be, something is wrong.)

Learn about basic mechanics of fights and how to work with them. Fights in this game are not too different from one another. You’ll need to swap, reposition, kite, aim frontal cones away from the raid and pick up adds. If you master these points then you can adapt to almost any fight.

Try and get a feel of when to use your cooldowns. Using Saber Ward then beginning the fight is the worst thing you can do. Cooldowns are not there to make you remain at 100% for the opening of a fight, they’re there mostly to bounce back from a huge spike or incoming spike. Popping them when damage intake is low so you can maintain a 85%> HP is not needed. I follow a typical priority. Soft cooldowns at sub 70% (Adrenal, Endure, Enraged Defense etc.) and hard cooldowns (Ward, Invicible) at sub 50% or there abouts if damage is continuous on me.

clip_image004

Learn to use Guard effectively and why it is used on certain targets. There is a reason for everything when tanking, DPS always get guarded. DPS are guarded NOT for the Damage Reduction, it’s used for the 25% threat output reduction so you do not lose aggro.

Know when to taunt and when not to taunt. If you’re the main tank, taunting to gain some added threat is fine, but taunting off your co-tank when they’re holding the boss if you are not asked or it is unjustified should never be done.

Lastly, don’t take advice with salt. Tanking takes work, you will make mistakes, a lot. But bounce back from them, accept them and better yourself. Don’t be deluded and think that a DPS pulling aggro is their fault or you not kiting a boss into a mechanic correctly was due to a bug. If you admit your mistakes, you will become a good tank, if you blame everyone but you, then you’ll get no where. Don’t try to make it like your way is the right way. Tanking can diverse in how it is played, you can change your priorities to fit how you want to play. Play what works for you, so long as bosses die and you don’t get your raid killed, job done.

  • John’e

    Guide looks good!

    One small thing: In the saber throw opening you need to remove vicious throw, the new utility enables it from charge and you aren’t charging in this opening

    • Artorias

      Very true, I’ll fix that and send it off to Dulfy. 🙂

  • Ivan O’B

    Awesome Guide! Thanks for taking the time to put it together!

    Question on the stats, what numbers should we be aiming for?
    Are they more or less what Bant has said in the SWTOR forums of 2779 Defense, 1370 Shield and 1252 Absorb, based on 220 Gear?

    • Artorias

      Pretty much, not sure how accurate those numbers are in regards of reaching them in gear tiers but the priority is correct. I’m sitting at about 2.3k Defense, 1.3k Shield and 1.1k Absorb with a fair amount of unoptimized pieces and older augments.

      • Ivan O’B

        Thanks for the quick response!

        I just crunched the numbers and checked the gear. Those Stats can be achieved give or take 2 or 3, if you take the 220 Bonus Gear from Vendor, exactly as it is for Tanks, with 1 Bastion Ear Piece and 2 Bulwarks Implants, plus the 10 Shield Augments and 4 Absorb.

        I think it comes out at 2782 Def, 1367 Shield and 1249 Absorb.

        The 220 radiant gear that you get in OPs is also the same shield and absorb stats, just lower defense and more health. So those can be added in for the 80ish health.

  • Julian Brennan

    no matter what I try, when using the “max threat opener” I’m running out of rage twice: first at the vicious throw and then again on the 2nd force scream. when I use saber throw before the force charge I still don’t have enough rage for the 2nd force scream…

    • Artorias

      A key part of the rage gen is taking damage. It can sometimes fall short, Vicious Throw is nice but if Endless Rage and Deadly Reprisal isn’t contributing, it’ll not go so well.

      • Secrus

        So you mean that only testing field for this tank is in ops?

        • Artorias

          Testing field isn’t the right word realistically. To be fair the only place where a tank can see how effective their rotation, gear, etc. is in a live instance because their job revolves around an enemy encounter.

  • Alex

    How much health should we get in order to resist the high spikes of dmg from hm bosses?

    • Artorias

      Resist chance is tied to Defense. If you mean how much HP is needed to shrug off any attack then, it depends on content and it’ll be a lot.

  • Cadous

    aegis assualt should help replenish any lost rage

    • Artorias

      True to an extent but keep in mind Saber Throw, Force Choke, Enrage, Endless Rage, Deadly Reprisal all contribute to your Rage, Aegis is just resource fluff most of the time because you’re just swimming in resource.

  • Secrus

    Hey, I heard rumors about some ops bosses (ex. Raptus) use attacks dealing dmg over tanks hp. Is Invincible good to reduce this damage?

    • Radina

      Driving Thrust is what you probably talk about. It always was a big chunk of damage in the old days and seems to be one in 4.0. Just be sure to manage the DD Challange and it wont do you to much harm and dont forget to keep up your damage reductions 24/7. You although can watch his animations. Driving Thrust has quite a long one, so you can fit in Invincible if you need to.

  • KShrike

    Honestly, just a bit of speculation.
    If you intercede to your cotank who’s tanking the boss for the damage reduction, they can taunt the boss to get hate back, couldn’t they (provided they’ve got high threat abilities ready to get back on the boss)? They’d still have a theoretical 18 seconds to get hate back if they taunt lock (and probably wouldn’t need the AoE taunt and second single target taunt to get hate back)

    Obviously you wouldn’t do this in a pug situation, but with the right duo of tanks, you could really make a lot of use out of the defensive possibilities of this skill, right? I’m asking this because you make it very clear to not do it. I imagine that it’s probably for the better to not tell randoms to use it situationally, but I’m just curious.

    • Secrus

      Remember than during ops fights DPS are still pulling their aggro up. if you spend time locking and interciding to other tank you have VERY big possibility of loosing top threat on both tanks. you may try it but for most of players this theory is to squishy. After DPS gets on top of threat list, fight could be wipe. I mean of course in situations when DPS know their job and how to do it right.

      • KShrike

        “I mean of course in situations when DPS know their job and how to do it right.”
        I guess I need to get in that situation. I only did two ops recently as a tank, so… I guess I’ll find that powerful DPS soon to practice holding hate off of.

  • KShrike

    Also, a question. This is more because I never tanked nightmare mode (or rather when I did, I only got 4/5 dread fortress in 2.0, and it was with terrible DPS so I could hold hate by mashing buttons).

    Is the DPS in this game so harsh that we absolutely need to taunt in the opener and make use of the 6 second hold? This is more of a question that I have since I’m unfamiliar with serious tanking in this game (though I have tanked other game’s serious content)

    • Corwin

      When DPS open from stealth at the very start when you haven’t got much aggro yet, enemy can drop. When there is some heavy burst like Engineering sniper opening with aoe dots + explosive probe, enemy might drop. Sustained DPS will never steal aggro from you at the start though. That’s how I see it. And that’s why I (as a gunslinger) always drop my aggro after my opener.

    • Artorias

      DPS in this game are harsh, especially with Adrenals, offensive cooldowns, raid buffs etc. They have a lot to work with now. On top of this they can have a better first GCD than you. I.e an Ambush or Discharge versus your Charge. There is no real reason not to taunt in the opener and if you need the taunt for a mechanic that’s early in the fight, you can either use AOE taunt for that mechanic or the first taunt in the opener if the single target is safer for impending adds or ranging of the boss.

      • KShrike

        I see. Thanks for the answer.

        I guess FFXIV in comparison doesn’t really start with heavy hits for DPS that come sooner than the mainline threat abilities. Whereas in this game that 20k crit ambush is definitely gonna take hate. Ty for helping me understand this.

        • Artorias

          I actually just started playing FFXIV as a Gladiator tank, loving it but it’s very different. 🙂

          • KShrike

            Paladins are fantastic 😀 That’s how I got my start in FFXIV.

  • Sarigar

    I don’t typically gear much beyond the Elite tier, because I have a huge army of characters and I don’t raid; good enough for HM Flashpoints and Story Mode Operations, basically. Approximately what kind of percentages should I be looking at for that tier? Like 30% Defense, 36% Shield, 34% Absorb?

    • Artorias

      I’m sitting at about 27% Def, 45% Shield, 40% absorb. Now these aren’t the ratings I’d personally like and I’m adjusting them, how ever I did a Pug EV last night and one shot all the bosses so that distribution was more than enough for that tier.

      • Sarigar

        OK, that is helpful, thanks. I don’t process ratings as well as percentages, if I have a percentage to work toward, that’s a much clearer goal than “2500 rating”. 🙂 I’m going to create a batch of defensive augments when I get home, so I wanted to know if it should be all Shield, or mostly Shield some Absorb, any Defense, etc.

        • Artorias

          No! No defense augments! I have zero defense augments and I’m sitting at about 2300 defense rating. Go purely shield/absorb augments!

  • John’e

    On utilities, you don’t have unstoppable listed under skillful. I find especially the knock-back immunity after leap to be very helpful.

    • Artorias

      Unstoppable is decent for adds and certain pulls but it’s not worth taking over the three listed. Path Carver is good threat and damage, Unshackling Rage is something we’ve needed for a good while and Deadly Reprisal further reduces any chance of using a basic attack.

  • Secrus

    If I achieve situations when I have everything on cooldown, which I don’t know if even should happen, but when I reach this point should I use Vicious Slash or what?

    • p4v7

      I think you get to the point where everything is on CD, then Vicious Slash is your best choice.

    • AdjeYo

      Assuming you have enough rage, it’s the best option, if you’re low on rage assault would be better, you don’t want to have too little rage for your more important abilities.

  • Caleb

    Do you recommend a might hilt or resistive hilt?

    • Eros

      With the changes to stats, mainly the amount of health gained from endurance, the resistive hilts are much better than the versatile (might) hilts, especially with how much burst damage raid bosses are giving out in HM ops. The versatile hilts will only help you generate threat and deal a bit more damage, but your raid group shouldn’t need extra damage from you (the tank) unless your DPS suck, and if your DPS suck then you don’t need the extra mastery stat to increase your threat. So use resistive hilts if you can get them.

    • Falinesti

      Why in the world would you even consider going for a damage-oriented hilt on a tank ?

      Your job is to take damage, not deal some.

      • Artorias

        Because it was viable in 3.0 to take high main stat for force healing benefits. But since endurance’s gain has been increased per point, it’s now optimal to take endurance heavy equipment.

        • AdjeYo

          On that topic, are you taking b-mods or unlettered mods?

          • Alex

            And, what about heavy endurance enhancements, implants and ears?

            Have you tried some HM bosses to check HP requirements to not be one shot killed?

            • AdjeYo

              I’m generally against high endu enhancements, because you sacrifice more defense than with b mods, but now with the defense bloat might be worth it, but i doubt it.

              • Alex

                But if several bosses are hitting you with 75k… then what would you do to survive?

                KBN saids that Driving Trust from Raptus does that damage. Something has to be done to compensate.

              • Artorias

                Come third phase of NiM Raptus, likelihood is you will need to aggressively tank swap and be healed up to 100% and swap again + Roll cooldowns if Driving Thrust is going to be hitting that hard. Currently on Artorias I’m sitting at…. 78K HP? But I’m no where near HM Optimized gear, I’m barely in optimized Deceiver.

              • Artorias

                Funny thing is. Defense being sacrificed will actually not be a bad thing because the main ability people are afraid of, NiM Raptus’ Driving Thrust is Force, as such the chance of a resist is all Defense can do for it. Sacrificing Def for NiM Raptus in particular is not a bad thing.

          • Artorias

            Currently no. Eventually? Yes.

      • Caleb

        Previous tier it was recommended to take a might hilt. The endurance difference isn’t that much, and the extra damage can help with threat generated. Plus even doing 1000 dps as a tank will make a difference.

  • Xyla

    I read through the comments and there has been people before adressing it. But numbers are needed on the gearing!!! I appreciate all the effort put into the guide but we need real and tangible goals for gearing, not just “switch augments from defense to shield/absorb when you get better gear”. I think this is a massive missing point in an otherwise great guide. So please flesh it out!

    • Alex

      I absolutely agree

    • Artorias

      The issue is, when I had these goals before, people whined about their innaccuracy and how they were failing on hitting them when in reality they were not optimizing their gear to hit these goals. I can add them but it’d be opening a second can of worms when I’d be told that “In Exarch it’s not possible to hit these goals when I have five unoptimized enhancements.”

      • Alex

        I need a reference, an starting point. I will not judge yours. Please mate, add them based on your experience in current content.

        • Artorias

          I’ll add one in the next draft in few days or so.

    • AdjeYo

      I’d recommend just finding some theorycrafters, there’s one who’s already found optimal stats to have best dps/dtps/hps for all 24 specs. This guide is mainly focused on how to play your juggernaut tank, not how to gear it, and it does a damn fine job.

      • Xyla

        I just think it breaks down like this:
        If you’re a somwhat casual player you aren’t gonna look for more than one source on how to play a class, and if you write a comprehensive a guide as this, it should be the authors aim not to have readers have to look up a crucial aspect themselves.
        In addition it isn’t about what is optimal and how to min-max if you had unlimited crystals or tokens. It’s what piece to buy next or what augments to add – without any information a player might aswell just add endurance augments because they don’t know better.

        • Artorias

          Let me break down your response because comment sections can be as helpful as a guide.

          No matter your skill level, it is always a good thing to look at multiple sources of information to get various views and aspects on a class. I did it for Assassin DPS when I was first learning. No guide is perfect, people requested the numbers, they’ll be added, no damage done.

          Second, it is impossible for a guide to dictate the flow of gear you should be taking. It would have to take into account what your first piece was, your random loot gains and so on. The guide tells you what ger sets to buy, what set bonus to wear and finally, what augments to use. If they do not know any better, they haven’t been reading the guide enough.

          Third, I would disagree with you on the statement of “it’s not what’s optimal.” It is, purely because gearing is an important process. You want to know if what you’re doing is right, the guide tells you the stat budget priority and what to equip and what to avoid (I.e defense augments, alacrity, accuracy) and so on.

          Regardless this is irrelevant, people want a benchmark and you’ll get it. I personally felt with the lack of positive feed back on a previous benchmark posted from the 3.0 optimal tank stats thread that history would repeat itself, evidently not, expect one in the coming week. Until then, the optimal 24 discipline link is located in the comment section below for those looking for the information.

          Thanks.

        • Divona

          You are correct. This guide looks more like how to play tank not how to gear so overall not complete guide. Since as tank many focus on some skills and rotation too much but tottally forget stats are very important.

          • Artorias

            I’m sorry you feel that way. How ever the lack of one line of information revolving around a baseline of gear is a bit extreme to call a guide incomplete. Contrasting to that, a tank who knows their class in bad gear can out perform a tank in best in slot nightmare gear who doesn’t know their rotation or cooldown management. Again, check back soon for a baseline.

  • Divona

    Dissapointed on this guide. In deep about skills and rotation ok but for tanks stats and how much each point should be distributed has been ignored.
    I only see this?
    Priority is as it was before
    Defense > Shield > Absorb

    • Artorias

      As stated before, base lines were received negatively before. People misunderstood, didn’t know what they meant and over all were put off by being told where their aims should be, so I left it out. It’ll be added, your disappointment is noted, but try and get past the lack of information for now and look here; http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8558158 until later this week

      • KShrike

        Honestly it seems obvious enough that you prioritize all enhancements and augments to get as much shield and absorb as possible, and having the only defense we’ve got being that which we get from mods and the mandatory enhancement secondary stat.

        I guess the only thing that would be variable is just how much higher shield is over absorb.

  • Artorias

    Since it was requested (and demanded by some). I sent off a change to dulfy including a goal for gear. Expect it soon.

    • Alex

      Lots of thanks

  • Matt Westlake

    What about endurance? as I’m replacing crystal gear with operation gear, I notice my defensive stats going up and up, but my endurance dropping (EX: 1 enhancement 152 Endurance, 143 shield, 39 defense getting replaced by 93 endurance, 152 shield, 104 defense). The healers already have 10K more health than me, and that gap continues to grow as they gain more health and I lose it.

    • Artorias

      DPS and Healers will always have more health than you, Matt. Reason for this is augments. Notice how our augments for tanking have secondary stat being power, where as theirs are Endurance, they get a lot of HP from their augments. Now you can go the route of high endurance mods for later tiers which will require it but that’s not a big deal for SM. In SM (and most HM ops), having more mitigation is optimal.

      • K

        Healers most certainly should not have more health than you eventually

        • K

          Joking aside, as you gear up you will balance things out to a degree, a good rule of thumb is don’t trade off on a worse than 1:1 Ratio between END and Mitigation stats

  • Bryan

    Good guide, I especially liked the last few paragraphs. It’s astounding how many people try to tank not understanding these. Or how many non-tanks don’t understand them and get argumentative. I’ve head healers ragequit for not getting guard. Crazies.

    • Artorias

      Healers will pull aggro in large add packs if DPS AOE is poor, but in a fight? I never guard a healer with the exception of maybe two fights where it matters. It is amazing how when I ask if a tank is using Target of Target and they don’t know what it is.

      • DLM3

        Yeah many adds is when I put my guard on the healer. Like for instance the army of infinite troopers in Legacy of the Rakata. Especially if the DPS are not top notch I know there is too much a chance for the healer to be ganked so hopefully the guard helps in reducing their threat.

  • VicVader

    So I’m seeing a conflict of which relics to use based on the new 24 Disciplines thread.

    His thread is using Reactive and Shield Amp for Maximized Mitigation and Reactive with Focused Ret for Increased health (lettered B Mods) numbers.

    Your guide suggests Reactive and Fortunate Redoubt. From what I’ve read, your relics seem to be the pair that most are leaning towards. Should we consider the other relics for specific boss fights or at a different gear level? What are your thoughts on that?

    • Artorias

      So there are a few fights where Fortunate Redoubt fails. Brontes being a big one as nearly all damage profiles are Tech/Force. Now through out all my prog from NiM Brontes to HM Revan, I never swapped out my relics for kills. Now that’s not to say swapping relics out is a bad thing, far from it, adapting to a fight is a good thing but not something you should feel obligated to do. As for B-mods, I am currently thinking it over, it’s something I’m behind, just trying to get a good point in my mind to suggest transitioning to B-mods.

      • VicVader

        I’ve been thinking a lot about the b-mods as well. I don’t do numbers like you crazy math people do but from looking at the trade off, without really doing number crunching, it seems like we loose way too much endurance for a fraction of defense. Looking at the threads posted by others, the mitigation v.s. endurance… the mitigation spec that uses regular mods hardly fluctuates at all, within 1% whereas the endurance has around a 6k average… which is a pretty big gap.

        I want to do a bit more research but right now, I’m siding with b-mods at the moment.

        Thanks for your reply on the relics, I’m like you, I don’t swap out often but considering what we’re reading about certain fights, it’s something I’m going to consider now.

  • Cat-In-Heat

    Important to note: the Ravage defense bonus is M/R AND F/T defence, so retaliation + rave buff up = 11% force/tech resist chance!!! hype!

    • Artorias

      Yep. Shame Defensive Swings doesn’t last longer but it is a very nice buff.

  • Deepcutz

    Thanks a bunch!

    • Artorias

      No problem!

  • Random

    What about juggernaut Immortal PvP? I’m a little confused about advanced mods and enhancements. With full exemplar and fortitude augments, I’m at 80K HP, 1545 defense, 685 Absorb and 685 Shield.

    • Artorias

      I’m not a big PVP player, especially not in Immortal. AFAIK Endurance augs are still the way to go. Possibly taking DPS mods since defense sucks in PVP and going absorb/shield enhancements.

      • Random

        Why exactly does defense suck on in PvP? Could you elaborate on that? Thank you so much for your answer

        • Artorias

          Players deal mostly Tech/Force damage in PVP, so defense doesn’t do much against it.

  • Jeff

    Artorias,

    Thanks for the guide. I noticed that you have roughly a 3:2 Shield/Absorb ratio. Goblin_Lackey has a roughly 1:1 ratio. Could you comment on the difference?

    • Artorias

      Personally my gear is a mess right now, I have to fix it up. His numbers are referenced in the guide and I’d follow them roughly. So there isn’t a vast difference between us both.

    • Iron-Clad

      Here’s my take on variations from theorycrafted numbers:

      Goblin_Lackey takes his tanking numbers from KBN/Dipstik, and even tells you (with links) to look at their pages instead of his. To my understanding, both KBN (once he updates for 4.0) and Dipstik calculate the ideal stats for the lowest average damage taken per second. However, lowest average dtps is not necessarily the ‘best’, as it essentially assumes an infinite hp pool on the tank and cannot accommodate for spike damage in either sense.

      Firstly, there is boss spike dmg, such as some crazy dmg spikes from a few specific hm/nim ops bosses, which cause many tanks to forego some mitigation in favor of endurance (thus Dipstik showing optimized stats for B-mods as well as unlettered, and KBN calculating for a spread of ‘secondary stat budgets’ and not saying which budget is ‘ideal’). Both Dipstik and KBN acknowledge that some amount of endurance is needed; however there is no magic number for the ‘right’ amount of hp.

      Second, there is RNG ‘spike’ dmg due to lack of defense/shield procs; e.g. if you were to shield every hit for 10 seconds and then not shield a single hit in the following 10 second, there would be 10 seconds of half damage followed by 10 seconds of full damage, etc.. By tipping the ratio in favor of shield, although you may achieve a slightly higher dtps, it will make your damage profile more even, thus making your incoming damage easier to handle. To put it in other terms, if you could take 100% shield chance with 20% absorption, you would average 20% absorbed over time with a very consistent dtps. On the flip side, if you took 20% shield chance with 100% absorption, you would still average 20% absorbed over time but would have a spiky damage profile. I don’t know whether Dipstik or KBN support this variation from their ideal numbers, but many tanks do for practical rather than mathematical reasons.

  • Alex

    Guys, considering all you have seen in the current content at hm or nim modes. How much HP do you think must be the goal for a juggernaut tank?

    • Artorias

      Probably mid 80k’s in full 220’s with high endurance mods.

  • Bora

    So I see yet again that you recommend using an opener that a) with dps worth their salt will pull off of you in the second GCD and b) does not take advantage of the current set bonuses to pull of a full 18 second taunt rotation ensuring that threat is the tanks. Can you explain your reasoning behind this? There are better openers than the one you have recommended, however you seem to still be going off of information from 2.0 (same with the vanguard guide) as far as threat goes.

    • AdjeYo

      Not really, unless you’re really badly geared you’re not going to lose aggro during the first few gcd’s, you’re using all of your max threath abilities, and when you have to use lower threath abilities, you start with a triple taunt rotation, seems like a solid opener to me.

      • Artorias

        Triple Taunt method is viable. Is it mandatory? No. A few people complained to me on the forums that I was against it and proceeded to imply my opinions to others and tell them misguided and to be frank, fictional quotes of my recommendations of tanking. If you want to Triple Taunt, go a head, if you don’t, will you lose aggro and kill your raid? Nope. As I mention many of times to pugs, prog groups and people who ask me questions, tanking is up to the player. How you play, how you move, how you use cooldowns, everything is up to the tank. In the end you can diversify it to suit how you want to play.

    • Artorias

      So to break down your point.

      If a DPS pulls through Crushing Blow’s threat? My god they must have hit a rough… 19k hit? I can think of a few abilities capable of this particular level of threat but with Retaliation hitting instantly as soon as it’s available, that tiny spike threat bounces it back into your favour. Crushing Blow is your highest threat generating ability besides Reflect. Unless you’re opening with it by running into a boss, it’s going to be the strongest 2nd GCD you’ve got if you want to use leap for the 3-rage which is ideal to skip using a resource generator so early.

      As for the Set Bonus, my opener uses Scream pretty much on cooldown, which does make use of the set bonus but I do not need a full 18 seconds to hold aggro. If you need to use all three taunts in succession, you have issues with threat that need to be addressed. As I mentioned above, taunt fluffing is nice but not something that’s really necessary considering a tank can front load an insane amount of threat in the opener.

      There are not really better openers, there are worse openers in terms of threat but not in terms of buffs because a lot of abilities benefit various areas of mitigation, debuffs or passive damage reduction. If you think there are better openers, by all means use them. As for my basis for threat, I count threat as a value, a value which goes from 0 to a number by the time the fight ends, whether that be 50 million or 50 thousand. TPS (Threat per second) is in my opinion, a useless stat. Anyone can tell you threat matters only for the engaging of an enemy while their aggro table is equal across the board of all allies. Taunt becomes less of an important tool the more the bosses health pool reduces with the exception of the AOE taunt utilities.

      I would like to how ever hear which ability you’d place in the 2nd GCD besides Crushing Blow would be, I am interested considering every single Juggernaut I have tanked with or seen tank any challenging boss always opens with a very similar opener.

  • Artorias

    Update: Going to download Shadowplay again and try and get boss kills up. Just showing rotation, cooldown usage and what not. Thanks!

    • AdjeYo

      Oh cool, will definitely be looking out for that.

    • Vitalii Biliienko

      Will you be updating the Rage DPS guide? As a new player I would love more specifics about the actual gear you use and thing like that

      • Artorias

        I will be making a guide. How ever my DPS set is poor right now (I don’t raid enough to gear both sets.) so my gear is in purgatory.

  • Cat-In-Heat

    If I am reading this correctly, and mathing correctly, the full 216 build for stats you have posted is a total miti pool of 5181, buy my tank in 220’s has a total pool of 4501 w/ stim. Is that 2639 defense supposed to be 1639? Or am i misinterpreting?

    • Iron-Clad

      There is a range of secondary stat pools for any given gear tier. It matters whether you pull mod/enh out of MK-1, MK-2, or MK-4 gear. MK-4 (crystal vendor) gear will have a buttload of endurance but very low secondary stats, resulting in a much much lower secondary stat pool. Just to illustrate the range, the stat budgets are roughly as follows (NOT including relics, armorings, hilt, or stim, as armorings/hilt don’t have secondary stats and relics/stim won’t change):
      full 220 MK-1’s have 5174 budget with 2310 endurance.
      full 220 MK-4’s have 4140 budget with 3412 endurance.

      His numbers above are assuming MK-1 mod/enh, so him assuming a total mitigation pool of 5181 in 216’s is correct. I am assuming that your 220’s are mostly MK-4’s with a few others mixed in, resulting in a much lower secondary stat pool.

      In a little more detail, there are 2 types of mods and 3 types of enhancements within the same gear tiers. There are Unlettered mods (Warding Mod 43) and B mods (Warding Mod 43B). Unlettered come from MK-1 (unassembled tokens from ops). B mods come from MK-2 (random drops in ops, as well as the 216 drops in hmfp’s) as well as MK-4 (crystal vendor). Immunity/Sturdiness enhancements come from MK-1 gear; Bastion/Bulwark Enhancements come from MK-2 gear; Steadfast/Vigilant Enhancements come from MK-4 gear.

      Various theorycrafters come to different results on ‘how much hp is needed’ which impacts which mods/enhancements to use. Artorias’s guide takes the lowest hp, highest mean mitigation approach, using only unlettered mods and immunity/sturdiness enhancements. If you only plan on sm ops, or no more than ev/kp hm ops, that is probably the best approach. For spikier/more difficult hm’s/nim’s, you should do your own research to decide for yourself ‘how much hp is enough.’ Generally, when aiming for higher hp, you should opt for B mods first. If you still need more hp switch to bastion/bulwark enhancements or use a dps relic for endurance, but never use steadfast/vigilant enhancements.

      • Rageus

        So, Cat-in-Heat asked “Is that 2639 defense supposed to be 1639? Or am i misinterpreting?”, and this is your answer? I read 4 paragraphs of information and I can’t seem to find your response to this simple question…

        • si7h

          Iron’s answer was actually very informative. Simply because you don’t understand that there are different tiers of 220 gear which will result in varying stat pools associated with each does not mean that he didn’t answer the question.

  • Stuart

    Fantastic guide! really helped me out alot! I do have one question though: There is a skill tree ability called force grip about midway that causes force choke to deal 100% more damage (irrelevant) generate double threat and activate instantly. Im still relatively new to tanking so I was wondering if that made it a viable ability? Your guide says it should be used primarily as a filler I was just looking for some clarification as I’m a bit conflicted. I know even wth double threat its still not as high on the list as aegis assalt crushing blow etc.But I have found it very usful when needing to tank multiple ads at short medium range and its still great as a filler. Thanks for your great guide 🙂

    • AdjeYo

      It deals some moderate damage (slightly more than vicious slash I think?) while also generating rage and a decent amount of threath making it a very good filler move. That said, it’s priority is below much abilities because they provide you with defensive buffs, where’s force choke doesn’t. When tanking adds that can be stunned however, it is of course very useful, but this guide is mostly aimed at fighting operation bosses.

  • Wadd

    When will the Jedi Guardian Tank version of this guide be up?

    • Artorias

      It was sent off with Immortal, Dulfy just has to format and upload.

  • Eldin Hadzovic

    When will Veng PvE guide be available?

  • Evan Karl

    Ok seriously, it’s HOWEVER not how ever. o.O

  • luke956

    Just a quick query, is the adrenal the advanced anodyne absorb adrenal or something ive missed completely as you’re talking about a shield as opposed to the abosrb adrenal which increases shield and absorb?

    • Artorias

      Prototype Anodyne Absorb Adrenal + Advanced Anodyne Absorb Adrenal

  • Stephen

    Seriously… No dps juggernaught guide.. not everyone is a tank… where is dps

  • Stephen

    I’m juggernaut using vengeance… wheres the guide for this

    • Artorias
      • Stephen

        That’s jedi, I’m sith using juggernaut – vengeance, I never pvp., Half to nearly all the abilities on that link arnt on sith juggernaut..

        please only post one for juggernaut

        Just looked at the link you gave me , NOTE TO JUGGERNAUTS: Vengeance guide isn’t up yet due to finagling with the tables.

        • Artorias

          That’s a PVE guide, just translate the icons and names. Plus the Jugg DPS guide for Vengeance isn’t mine so it’s not my responsibility.

          • Stephen

            I don’t know any of the translateions…

  • Noah

    jugg pvp tank augments? just endurance or any thoughts on other augments?
    thanks! 🙂

    • Artorias

      Endurance I believe? I don’t PVP though.

  • Rageus

    So, where do you get the “War Leader” 6 piece armor sets from?

    • Artorias

      Operations. You get Unassembled drops which you trade it on fleet for the War Leader gear.

  • Nikolas Real

    Immortal guide but no guardian defense guide? I’m a pub diehard and play 90% pub side, consider myself a master guardian tank but still wanted tips to hone my skills. Really want to know tips but dont wanna read immortal to find out, i know they are mirrior classes its just the little things matter i guess. If the guide already exist i would love a link ;D

    • Artorias

      I sent Defense to Dulfy alongside Immortal, she needs to format and put it up.

    • ScicleX

      “consider myself a master guardian tank but… …dont wanna read… …to find out”
      That’s what I got out of your response. Lazy =/= Master

      • Whitedragon

        lol

  • Fattarby

    Hello,

    I followed the guide and purchased all 216 gear except the MH (208) and relics (186). All my gear is augmented with the recommended aug’s.

    “Goal to head towards in SM Deceived (216) gear: 2639 (0xAug) Defense | 1569 (9xAug) Shield | 973 (5xAug) Absorb”

    My defense is low (1700ish), but shield and absorb are okay.

    Can someone explain why I’m not at the target defense of 2639? Looking at the 216 Mh and relics doesn’t look like I would make up the difference.

    Thanks for the guide.

    • Sarigar

      I’m at the same place. The only thing I can think of is if you had perfectly optimized gear from drops only, no vendor purchases, in every slot, but even that doesn’t seem like it will add +900 defense.

      • Fattarby

        I figured that out last night. It’s the SM ops 216 gear that will gives 2639, not the blue crystal 216 gear (reading is fundamental as my wife would say lol)

        Should I adjust my augments for more defense or will 1700’ish defense be okay? My shield and Absorb are at the target entry gear stats.

        Thanks

        • Corwin

          Just go do SM ops via gf, your missing defense will be bolstered up. This way you will get the real 216 gear 😉

  • verfallen

    There are some pretty good tips in there, but you are vastly underestimating force choke.

    With force grip, its an instant which as doubled BOTH threat and damage (so its basic threat x4 of standard). It applies its damage over 4s tough, so its not the highest TPS ability, but its the 3rd threat per gcd ability after CB and Backhand.

  • fxds

    A few people in previous comments asked about a Jedi Guardian version of this guide, and apparently it should be coming when Dulfy gets the time to format and post it. In the meantime, I’d muddled through leveling a Defense Guardian in the last couple of weeks and couldn’t find a list of the skill name equivalents, so I put a list together. Hopefully it’ll be helpful to someone besides myself. (And hopefully Disqus supports basic HTML table tags, not just the table caption tag listed in their documentation. I mean, what use would a table caption be without a table, right?)

    Please note that I’ve left out the skills which have the same name on both sides, and I didn’t include Utilities because the guide already quotes the in-game descriptions, which can be easily matched.

    Immortal Juggernaut
    Defense Guardian

    Mad Dash
    Blade Blitz

    Force Charge
    Force Leap

    Aegis Assault
    Warding Strike

    Force Scream
    Blade Storm

    Retaliation
    Riposte

    Crushing Blow
    Guardian Slash

    Smash
    Force Sweep

    Ravage
    Blade Dance

    Backhand
    Hilt Bash

    Sweeping Slash
    Cyclone Slash

    Vicious Throw
    Dispatch

    Force Choke
    Force Push

    Vicious Slash
    Slash

    Assault
    Strike

    Threatening Scream
    Challenging Scream

    Invincible
    Warding Call

    Endure Pain
    Enure

    Enraged Defense
    Focused Defense

    Intercede
    Guardian Leap

  • Douglas Lee Davis

    Are the Guardian armorings mentioned in the gearing section above a set bonus item? Ive tried googling them and cant find anything further on where to acquire them or what their set bonus is.

    • AdjeYo

      The ones you should be looking for is resistive armourings. (The names of all armourings got changed when 4.0 launched and Artorias uses the old name here.) In short, make sure to get armourings with the juggernaut tank set bonus on them, the ones in the war leader gear. And remember, having a lower rating armouring with set bonus is better than a higher rating armouring without.

  • Stefano Cursi

    Hi
    I am a novice player and I found very useful this guide. It will be published a specific one for the 4.0 Defense Jedi Guardian ?
    Thank you in advance!

  • Intrepid

    Hi guys,

    Currently on my jugger tank (rating 220 with 4 pieces of 224) Im using B-mods and the implants and ear 220 dropped from operations (mk 2). My hp is 78k. Would you suggest to replace those currently equipped ear and implants for the 224 token ones?

    Thanks you in advance!

    • Artorias

      Hmm.. I’d say so, the from the sounds of it, using the 224 may touch up some mitigation which may be nice. The difference in just ear and implants is gonna be negligible but the base gain from 220 -> 224 would benefit you.

  • Sam Hillard

    Could someone make a complete rotation list :/ I’m more visually inclined
    either text or pictures please and thank you.

    • Tykè

      Same I will go insane without rotations (except as a low lvl) I want a completed rotation thru an entire boss fight.

      • Sam Hillard

        I figured it out if you’re on the Harb. It’s better than the rotation posted here.

        • Artorias

          Feel free to share it here, I’d like to critique it.

      • Xandrmoro

        But there is no rotation for tanks (and for healers as well)

        • Tykè

          When we say rotation we mean a preferred way to put one ability in front of the other and out abilities in a order to do more damage and gain threat. Like when sorc healing. – resurgence before innervateis great burst healing from my experience and after innervate use revivication.

          • Xandrmoro

            Its usually called “priority”, not “rotation”.
            Alright then:
            (*I never played as juggernaut, so I’ll name abilities as they are for guardian, ok?)

            0. Riposte (Retaliation?): ASAP, since its off GCD
            1. Guardian Slash (Crushing Blow?)
            2. Blade Storm (Force Scream?) – shields are just awesome

            3. Warding Strike (Aegis Assault?) – moves to 1 if you lost your buff or somehow got out of focus (I’m sure it’s rage)
            4. Force Sweep (Smash?) – moves to 2, if threat is bigger problem than damage
            4.5. Dispatch (?) – should generally be used off CD when boss is lower than 30%
            5. Blade Dance (Ravage?)

            6. Force Stasis (Force Choke?)
            7. Saber Throw
            8. Slash (Vicious Slash?)
            And there is Hilt Bash (?), which is a 1-minute CD high-threat instant hit that can be used to regain aggro when needed.
            Someone like to include taunt into “rotation” using it off CD, but I personally don’t.

            • Tykè

              You labeled most of them right but you could’ve just only said the guardian version i can transfer it to jugg style cuz i play both. I’ll label the ones you didnt for jugg.
              Dispatch = Vicious Throw
              Hilt Bash = Backhand

              Anyways thx for that.

    • Artorias

      If EVERYTHING is off Cooldown and you have resource to spend, follow this list. That simple. From 1-10 dictates the best of each defensive buff granted by the abilities. There is no rotation for tanks, merely using the abilities as they come off CD to reduce your damage taken.

      1. Retaliation (off the GCD, pair it with any of the following).

      2. Force Scream

      3. Aegis Assault

      4. Ravage (Vs. Crushing Blow w/ 2-piece)

      5. Crushing Blow

      6. Smash

      7. Backhand

      8. Vicious Throw

      9. Saber Throw

      10. Vicious Slash

      11. Force Choke (If you need some resource for impending costs)

      12. Force Push

      13. Assault

  • Tykè

    Can u make a video on a dummy and show swtor caster i feel like im doing it wrong

  • claude1864

    Is there an Immortal jug tank pvp guide? I need an idea of which augments are best now days and i would like to see one of yalls rotations for pvp combat (tank)

    • Valenjinn

      In PvP just stack endurance. Fortitude augments help you to reach that goal.

  • CRYPT from CATACOMBZ

    Wanna ask, is possible to use Force Choke? On lvl guess 36 u’ll get passive skill which gets 100% more threat from force choke and cast is instant

  • deathslover

    im looking for a veng dps spec. any guides for it? or is the spec not used any more

  • Tykè

    Which class is better to tank with? Shadow/Assassin
    Guardian/Juggernaut
    Or
    Vanguard/Powertech

    • AdjeYo

      None of them is inherently better than the others. It’s also really encouraged to take two different tanks, they can cover each others weaknesses and having two different tanks will ensure having all three damage debuffs on the boss.
      Juggernauts currently have the best mitigation overall (at least according to Bant’s numbers). They also have the most varied defensive cooldowns. They do have the worst mobility, with a 3 seconds non moving channel every 18 seconds.
      Assassins get a high shield chance, but unmitigated attacks will hit for a ton because their damage reduction is significantly lower. Also force shroud can be used to avoid a lot of mechanics and cleanse yourself.
      Powertechs have the highest damage reduction and get access to the great tool that is hydraulics override. They don’t have many different cooldowns, but they get the job done.

      In short juggernaut is doing very well, but each tank has their own benefits.

  • Kanaxai

    I have a question about the stat distribution recommended in this guide, as the recommendation is quite different from Bants Numbres and I’d like to understand the reasoning behind this.

    Here, the Goal to head towards in SM Deceived (216) gear: 2639 (0xAug) Defense | 1569 (9xAug) Shield | 973 (5xAug) Absorb

    Bant:
    2648 Defense | 1361 Shield (7xE, 3xA) | 1259 Absorb (3xE, 11xA) for Max Mitigation
    or
    2381 Defense | 1255 Shield (8xE) | 1326 Absorb (2xE, 14xA) for increased Health

    As you can see, this guide goes in a very different direction when distributing Absorb and Shield. Could anyone explain to me why?

    • Firbolgar Avangerson

      In theory, the hield:absorb ratio Artorias posted would be less spikey than the other options (max mitigation, increased health). There are reasons for each option depending on the fight and team composition.

      I say in theory, because even if you look at Bant’s guide you can see the variation is usually ~2% between each of the gearing options (you can’t trade Defense for Shield or Absorb to the degree you use to be able to, so tanks don’t have as near as many gearing options as we used to). I’d imagine if you went with all MK-1 216 gear in some random configuration vs all Mk-1 216 fully optimized, you’re probably talking about 5-7% mitigation difference.

      To be honest, the ROI for min/maxing each different scenario is negligible compared to:
      1) understanding & executing mechanics properly
      2) studying and figuring out which DCDs work against which phases of the fight (given dmg and attack types), and
      3) given the above and what the CD periods for each DCD, how to sequence/roll DCDs during the fight to help the group get through the tough parts

      I hope the helps!

  • Firbolgar Avangerson

    @disqus_vi4fvoTJ9P:disqus Just curious about what you think about a triple taunt rotation compared to the one above? It would allow you to save SR for a mechanic and while the mitigation might not be optimal, it would probably beat losing threat to a bursty dps.

  • Alishajr

    I love to play with jugger. Amazing skills , amazing hero. I even bought an awesome Juggernaut t shirt

  • Mike

    First time I’ve seen this guide since I’ve not needed it before, but I’m so glad you mentioned this; “but taunting off your co-tank when they’re holding the boss if you are not asked or it is unjustified should never be done” as my favourite role is off-tank, and I hate when the mentality is “oh, but because I’m the main tank I need the boss.” That pisses me off when the main tank in a HM, or even just SM raid taunts off me unecessarily.

  • Andrew

    Can we use this guide as a mirror for Guardian Tanks? I always thought the two were the same but with different names for things.

    • Shawn Elliott

      They are. Every class in SWTOR has a Republic and Imperial counterpart. The mechanics are the exact same, only the skill names and animations are different.

  • IceBaby7

    it gives you seven utilities to use and says “choose one of the following….” for an eight selection, i suppose. Aren’t you allowed seven utilities???

    • QueenPixidust

      I was thinking the same thing. Not to mention most guides tell you which one is their first choice, or not worth taking kind of thing. This guy is just putting everything out there and assuming people who never tanked before will know what they should be taking.

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