SWTOR Chapter 16 Story and Companion Recruitment Guide

SWTOR Chapter 16 Battle of Odessen Story and Guss Tuno companion recruitment guide.

Story Cutscenes

“Dark” Side Choices (Koth kicked out previously)

“Light” Side Choices (Koth remains with the Alliance)

Conversation Choices

  • Chapter Start
Trigger: Lana says GEMINI Prime remains unresponsive  
swtor-chapter-16-story-guide
  1. This is my fault/I fell into trap/Something doesn’t add up
  2. No one betrays me – Gault, Torian approves
  3. SCORPIO will die, painfully – Gault approves
Trigger: SCORPIO says the partnership is incomplete  
swtor-chapter-16-story-guide-2
  1. We’re not partners – Theron approves
  2. Is this an apology? – SCORPIO is amused
  3. Your death will conclude it
Trigger: SCORPIO says she was curious what was more important to Arcann  
swtor-chapter-16-story-guide-3
  1. You can’t manipulate me – Lana/Senya/Theron approves
  2. You’re up to something/Are you helping me now?
  3. Arcann doesn’t frighten me – SCORPIO/Torian approves
Trigger: Theron says massive fleet inbound  
swtor-chapter-16-story-guide-4
  1. [Lie] I appreciate the heads-up – SCORPIO/Theron approves
  2. Keep the throne warm for me – Lana approves
  3. You’ll pay for your betrayal
Trigger: Theron/Lana says might want leave someone else on Odessen     
swtor-chapter-16-story-guide-5
  1. Torian can handle it – Torian approves
  2. Vette, you’re up – Vette approves
  3. Leave that to Gault – Gault approves
Agent Only Trigger: Kaliyo says to grab the Phantom and get off this rock  
 
  1. You don’t meant that – Kaliyo disapproves
  2. Tempting, but not an option
  3. You love this – Kaliyo approves
Trooper Only Trigger: Aric Jorgan says this time you might not come back  
 
  1. I will. I’m coming back, Jorgan – Aric Jorgan approves
  2. Stop being so serious – Aric Jorgan disapproves
  3. This is the job
Trigger: Theron asks if you would listen if he asked you to be careful  
swtor-chapter-16-story-guide-6
  1. I could be convinced – Theron approves
  2. Stop worrying. I’ll be fine – Theron disapproves
  3. Probably not
  • Go to the Gravestone Shuttle Access
Warrior Only Trigger: Vette says the whole thing smells funny  
 
  1. It’s going to be okay
  2. Smells like a Davaronian – Vette approves
  3. This is the final battle
BH Only Trigger: Torian says Ib’tuur jatne tuur ash’ad kyr’amur.  
 
  1. Say that again?
  2. Well put. – Torian approves
  3. I’m ready to finish this.
Trigger: Lana says you are ready for this  
swtor-chapter-16-story-guide-7
  1. Been a long time coming.
  2. [Flirt] I’m ready for a kiss – Lana approves
  3. I’m done hiding – Lana approves
  4. No time to chat.
  • Loading Screen
Trigger: Theron say he will man the omnicannon  
swtor-chapter-16-story-guide-15
  1. You’re staying here?
  2. Much appreciated – Theron approves
  3. Clear more than a path – Theron disapproves
  • Go to the Hangar
Trigger: Lana say only way to ensure planet’s safety is to annihilation his ship  
swtor-chapter-16-story-guide-8
  1. Oh, is that all?
  2. Stay focused on our goal – Lana disapproves
  3. Way ahead of you – Lana approves
Trigger: Lana asks you who you want to disable the guns  
swtor-chapter-16-story-guide-9
  1. Gault – Gault approves
  2. Torian – Torian approves
  3. Vette – Vette approves
Trigger: Koth say he has never been a part of something like this  
swtor-chapter-16-story-guide-16
  1. You played a major role – Koth approves
  2. I’m just getting started.
  3. We haven’t won yet.
Romance Only Trigger: Koth wanted to say thank you  
 
  1. A bit out of character for you – Koth disapproves
  2. I feel the same – Koth approves
  3. Just kiss me.
  • Clear the Hangar of Hostiles
  • Speak to Lana Beniko
Trigger: Vaylin says she love what you done with the hangar  
swtor-chapter-16-story-guide-10
  1. You’re not my target – Lana disapproves
  2. Inspired, isn’t it?
  3. Shut up.
Trigger: Vaylin says run along outlander  
swtor-chapter-16-story-guide-11
  1. Vaylin is still your daughter – Senya approves
  2. We can fight together – Senya approves
  3. Kill her, or I will.
  • Infiltrate Arcann’s Flagship
  • Confront KJ-931
  • Infiltrate the Bridge Deck
  • Defeat Arcann
    • The fight with Arcann has some mechanics you need to be aware. At certain point in the fight, Arcann becomes immune to damage and you will see green arrows directing you to a shield you can pick up. This shield will give you certain skills you can use in a separate hotbar.
    • Use the shield (shield icon skill) whenever you see him summoning Force Manifestations that target you with yellow arrow, these attacks from them will charge up your shield so you can use Empowered Bash (arm icon skill) on Arcann that deals massive damage.
    • Neat the end of the fight Arcann will jump away and attack you with Empowered Lightning, just put your shield up and walk towards Arcann and bash his head in. You will get over 100 stacks of that shield buff this way and can immediately end the fight

swtor-chapter-16-story-guide-12swtor-chapter-16-story-guide-13swtor-chapter-16-story-guide-14

  • Escape the Flagship

Shining in the Darkness Alliance Alert

Prerequisite: Complete previous Alliance alerts from Sana-Rae.

Walkthrough

  • Alliance alert will have you talking with Sana Rae in the alliance base and then Blizz. Blizz will lead you to this “Shiny Jedi Man” found on a casino in Nar Shaddaa (Star Cluster Casino)

swtor-shining-in-the-darkness-alliance-alert

  • To locate Guss’s master, you will need to take a taxi in the Lower Promenade marked on your map.
  • Both Tarisian Ale and Urchin Roll can be found in Corellian Sector. You can either do it the short way and use the cheat option in the conversation window or try earn light/dark side points and drag it out. If you drag it out, Guss will lead you to 3 places and you can earn up to 150 LS/DS points.
  • This is a short mission with not much to do other than running around in Nar Shaddaa.
  • Leonardo Prieto

    And what about that achievement “Shroud of the memory” ? The chapter with HK-55 ?

    • Darth Ji’inx

      I don’t think it’s out yet.

      • Dognim

        My guess is in 4 Weeks, like almost every Chapter from 10 – 16, so this would make it early September. But we can hope to get it earlier. Only time (or Musco) will tell 😉

        • Harold

          September sounds reasonable. KOTET will start in fall. KOTFE came out at the end of October. I’d expect the new expansion to have a similar release date. And i see no reason why the HK chapter should be released in the same month if not after the new expansion has started

    • Liriol

      We´ll get that someday too, hopefully in two or three days time… Am I a bit optimistic, right?

  • Havik79

    Far be it from me to nitpick (dyslexic myself), but in agent only trigger it says, you don’t meat that..
    Trooper trigger, ASric approves.
    Also, defeat Arcann, it says neat the end of the fight.
    Sorry Dulfy.

    Also seriously, one new comp and its one of the worst ever, at this rate it will be 2020 before all comps are back.

    • Fixed, thanks for finding them 🙂

      • Havik79

        Your welcome.

        • Glyndwr

          You’re*
          😛

      • Havik79

        Your welcome

  • Liriol

    Well, completed dark side story this morning… Wasn´t thata good, that I expected. But nevertheless, at least we got some cliffhanger, but not the way I wanted too. 5/10 in my oppinion… Could have been bether, and worse also. 😉

  • Qnrad

    Is it true that if i buy sub for last chapter i will get all kotfe story, and i will be able to do it even without sub?

    • Liriol

      I think so, that statement is correct now, because of the DvL event is going on. 🙂

    • Estranged

      Yes. You are locked in to all content to the point of your last sub day.

    • Emprah

      This is good to know, thanks!

  • Andhros

    Trigger: Theron/Lana says might want leave someone else on Odessen
    I thought my Sith Warrior’s Vette disapproved.
    Although I could be misremembering

  • FlyXan

    I used the double lightsaber I had crafted in Chapter 12 on my Shadow and I got two additional buffs against Arcann. One of them reflected 10% of the damage taken and the other one healed me.
    I don’t know if the buffs depend on the choice made during the crafting of the weapon as I completed the last chapter on this one character only.

    • Michael Witkowski

      They do, I had increased movement speed one and 10% reflection as well.

      • Risqu’e

        The increased movement speed was hilarious! Like the Flash superhero lol

    • FlyXan

      Note: Just checked the Chapter 12 walkthrough, the options are listed there. Might be worth adding them here as well.

    • Liriol

      I dont even no where my lightsaber is at the moment… Never thought, that it could really affect anything against Arcann. Well, thanks for telling this, with my other toons I will try out this option for sure!

    • Bobfish

      I forgot to equip it, didn’t need it though, the auto-healing in the fight was enough to keep me at 80% or more through the whole thing.

    • Reeberus

      That fight was so easy: had pvp gear on, no accuracy stim (so my acc was at abou 92%), didn’t use the weapon, and it still was easy as hell.

  • Cristian Ramos

    Dont have the flirt option with lana, and i romance her since the begginnig. How can i fix that?

  • ColBlackLion

    If I remember right, when KOTFE started, developers say that – they “don’t recomend use panel for old companions bring them back ~ because story in KOTFE and they will back at last chapter or sooner depend on class” … KOTFE have last chapter, did they still missing?

    • Disqus this

      They are. You get one more back and the rest still gone.

  • Sadriel_Fett

    So, how many class companions are still MIA? I’ve lost count.

    • Havik79

      I believe 14 comps for pub, and 9 imp are yet to be in the story.

      • FlyXan

        Consular: 4 – Tharan, Zenith, Felix, Nadia (I want my padawan back!)
        Knight: 4 – Kira, Doc, Rusk, Scourge (Sgt. Rusk should be back soon, I’ve seen in the morning that there is an achievement for recruiting him)
        Trooper: 2 – Elara, Tanno (although Tanno Vik’s already been in KotFE but he can’t be recruited, he’s an a-hole anyway :))
        Smuggler: 3 – Corso, Risha, Akavi

        Rep. total: 13

        Inquisitor: 3 – Khem, Andronikos, Ashara (Ak’ghal is similar to Khem but not the same)
        Warrior: 2 – Malavi, Jaessa
        Bounty Hunter: 2 – Mako, Skadge (not that I miss the latter one)
        Agent: 2 – Vector, Ensign

        Imp. Total: 9

        • Zasz

          You do know about the console to get them back on odessen, right?

          • FlyXan

            Yeah but we were talking about the story. And according to that, we still have a lot of missing comps.

            • Rompe Himself

              Yup more recruitment missions to make with the remaining companions in KOTET to make it look like it has more new content.

              Joy!!

          • Nuno Bacharel

            If I use the console, will the companion be back with the same influence rank when I lost him/her?

            • Paulo Gomes

              Yes.

            • Zasz

              Yes.

        • Reeberus

          Didn’t they say that not all comps would be back ? (so you can scratch Tanno off that list, since we can kill him story wise)

        • Vladislav

          P.S. Plus to Nadia. Give me my se…khm, my loyal serva….khem, padawan back in my be…nvm

        • Havik79

          Ah yeah I forgot the stupid fish face was back this chapter.
          LOL even my most LS or LS toons are going to kill skadge if the rumours of getting to kill him are true.
          Not that it matters anyway, bioware proving choices make no difference you can kill him and bring them back.

  • MacroLass

    So your affection with Sana-Re and the other department heads has no effect on the outcome of the battle? I’d heard somewhere that the worse your faction was with them, the more devastating the battle’s effects would be on your alliance.
    Also wondering what the heck the Scions are waiting for…

    • Zasz

      Affection doesnt have any influence on the story. If you are
      romantically involved with one companion you get an additional
      conversation inbetween. Thats it.

    • Guest

      The influence with those is for soloing the Star Fortress.

  • whawhu

    Ok. Now I get it. They had a stoy and they had the alerts. Then they realized the whole KotFE thing is more work than they expected. So they threw away half of the story and took some of the alerts and made a chapter out of them (Aric for exmple).
    Then they took the mess of Star Fortresses, Eternal Championship, Story, Companions and made whip whip stir, whip whip stir and solt this half baked mess as an expansion to us.

    • Zasz

      Play through the entire 16 chapters and then compare it to revan or makeb. I think KOTFE offers more than the former expansions about story depth, conversations and places to visit. But I dont like that KOTFE is 100% solo content with zero (story related) new flashpoints.

      • Matt Man

        ummmm the star fortress flashpoint ring a bell?

        • FlyXan

          That’s not a flashpoint, that’s a heroic. True, it’s a lot more difficult to solo than a regular HC but still a lot easier than to solo a tactical FP.

      • guest

        There is better story in the dreadmaster arc alone. And there were also dreadseed and shroud story arcs with some really well done end missions in ROTHC that get forgotten because of the H4 at the end you can never find a group for. Those last 2 shroud missions are better than most of the chapters in KOTFE.

        • Paulo Gomes

          I would agree to that. In fact I think the Dreadmasters story arc is among the finest things to come out of this game.

          • guest

            Agreed they are still my favorite ops to run, I still run every new toon through oricon.

            The end shroud and dread seed missions are long overdue to be given a solo-able version. They are kind of like short flashpoints, it would be really cool if they were able to combine the last 2 quests in each chain into a flashpoint and add them to groupfinder. That would be awesome. They can even call it more content.

            You can maybe solo the dread seed one, I know its easily doable with 2. Shroud still requires 4 for the buttons.

            • Paulo Gomes

              Exactly. I can tell you, one of the most satisfying experiences I had ingame was doing the Shroud final mission. We went in, 4 dps, no healer. One of the guys was a Sorc, so he switched to healer with dps gear and we went in and did it by the skin of our teeth lol. This was back in the day when 55 was level cap. The Shroud had that attack that if you didn’t interrupt you would die. Nowadays it’s a lot easier.

              The dreadseed one I’ve done with a 2 people group only. It takes forever, but it’s doable.

              It’s a real shame that those 2 are so difficult to finish, because getting a group going can be a real pain. A soloable version is long overdue, I agree. I know of many people that avoid doing those two stories because of that.

        • ConcernedGuest

          Nope finding a group is quite easy at least here on T3-M4. Just run the questline, have the H4 in your questlog and have the LFG channel on … sooner or later someone WILL call for this quests and then just hook up 🙂

          Had the H2’s for almost 4 months on my consular … finished it last week.

        • Zasz

          Everything is better than certain chapters, yes. Like the aric jordan or kaliyo chapters. Those are trash. Others are very entertaining.

      • Ben Gimson

        “offers more than the former expansions about story depth, conversations and places to visit”

        Eh? XD

        • Zasz

          You get around much more, you have much more conversations and you are not just always running around looking to kill 15 of that and 10 of that like during revan. KOTFE seems abit like makeb with a bigger inside and outside, planets instead of mesas and more insight about what happens on the other side of the story like in the cutscenes from the throne.

          • Ben Gimson

            Evidently we’ve been playing a different KotFE :’)

            • Zasz

              Im not among the “run faster, skip cutscene” community because I want to choose the right conversation and take in the scenery when I feel like it 🙂

              • Ben Gimson

                As do I 🙂

      • ZapTheSheep

        Bahahahahahaha!!!! ‘Choices matter’ is what they keep ‘selling’. Let’s look at that video and see how the choices matter. Koth got kicked from the alliance (which should have ended with his death). But, he is able to sneak back aboard the Gravestone during a major engagement and steal it. The Inquisitor makes the choice to kill Arcann… but doesn’t finish the job. Just assumes that falling debris kills him. Senya pulls him from under the tons of durasteel and he is peachy. She gets on a shuttle. Again, the Inquisitor chooses to kill Arcann (and Senya this time). Can’t finish the job. When will choice really fucking matter in this game?!

        • Zasz

          Some choices matter. For example letting kaliyo or jordan live after the failed mission. But thats just minor things. A major thing I like to mention is what you choose during your conversation after darth marr dies because that affects what happens during your fight with arcann on asylum on the control bridge.
          But I agree about the lack of consequences for choosing different options. I played through the chapter 2 times. One dark and one light side char and during the chapter and even during the alliance alert the outcome was identical. Slightly different but identica.

    • Emprah

      Needs more wookie roaring! Without subtitles!

    • Bobfish

      Whilst I think it had some of the better character writing of the expansions to date, it was the weakest story of them. That combined with the lack of non-story content was disappointing.
      I could understand if you only played one faction that KOTFE may seem better, but a someone who plays both sides I found the previous expansions to be much more entertaining, both from the story and content point of views.

  • New

    Sweet! 17 minutes and 23 seconds of new content!

    • RIP SWTOR: Solo Adventures

      LMFAOOOOOOOOOO COMMENT OF THE FUCKING DAY.

  • Disqus this

    WOW, I’m not sure there could have been a worse story and ending unless my 7 year old wrote it but hell, even then it would have had a solid ending. This was quite possibly one of the worst ending possible. Nothing Star Wars about it. How many times are we to just watch as something drops on someone else so there is no resolution.

    16 chapters and not a damn thing accomplished when it comes to the reason you are there. 16 chapters for a piss poor conclusion. Decisions that don’t mean a damn thing.

    SWTOR has become nothing more than a disappoint. Not just in how poor the content that we get is but now the actual story content itself.

    Nothing but disappoint from Bioware. What a waste of time this has been.

  • Madison Jackman

    Actually both Vette and Gault disapprove to being left behind with Jorgan and Kaliyo.

  • Sarigar

    That final chapter started off promising, but turned out to be the most disappointing, frustrating chapter yet. No questions answered, nothing resolved, all the bad guys escape, more traitors emerge… no satisfaction whatsoever. If I had ACTUALLY had a choice, I would not have left the bridge of that ship without Arcann’s head in my hand. That’s the THIRD TIME he’s been saved by falling debris.

    • Agreed, nothing was concluded for a final chapter. Just a pad for the next expansion I guess.

      • Rompe Himself

        Hey Dulfy, I am looking for a new MMO since it truly looks like SWTOR is just not going to return to greatness ever again. Can you suggest anything?

        I see you still update BDO. Is it worth trying out or is it just like GW2 but with different features? I will admit I am not a big fan of the super grindy MMO’s South Korea is known for.

        • BDO is also kind of a solo game with group based pvp. It is decent but there are some controversy with its cashshop etc, which isn’t as bad as SWTOR’s.

          • Rompe Himself

            Hey thanks for the reply Dulfy. What about ESO? I have a friend who used to play SWTOR who quit after the joke that is 4.0 and went ESO with his sibling who played it already but I saw that you no longer update your ESO section. Is it worth trying out or did you quit ESO because of BDO/GW2 being better?

            • Zak

              I personally thought ESO was terrible. But I’m told that ESO is a game where you either love it or hate it. No real in between.

            • Vladislav

              If you want PVE content go to GW2, if PVP go to BDO.

        • ZapTheSheep

          My entire guild from TOR is now playing SWG. Fourteen year old game that beats TOR hands down. It is grindy, but that is what MMOs are known for. Still. It is Star Wars.

          • MKDAWUSS

            Is JTL functional in the new-SWG?

            • Reeberus

              No it’s no. Probably never will at this pace if you ask me. They’re trying to finish the ground game, then, might go for JTL. I just don’t see happening within the next 5 years.

        • gog

          I started playing ESO after burning out of SWTOR, and really love the experience so far. A bit different in game play and such, so not for everyone, but haven’t had this much fun in an MMO in a looong time.

        • Darth-Robin

          play guild wars 2 trust me its a very solid game with a very good f2p model

      • Rip

        An expansion nobody wants Dulfy. Remember the days you played this game to raid. Now you hear about SWTOR and it’s oh that games a pile of shit, but at least back in those days you could say well at least it gets real content updates in the form of group content. It’s sad how far the game has went down hill. Rip YES and later Textbook Execution, solid raid teams for their time.

      • Razzy

        and their u have it folks, enough said, so sad, and totally agree

      • RIP SWTOR: Solo Adventures

        I would love to go on a date with you. What a goddess!

    • Reeberus

      So true. I was frustrated after finishing it. They kinda tried to make it seems like a victory for us, but the situation is way worse than before.
      *Spoiler alert*
      Koth stone the graveyard. Senya betrayed us to save Arcann. Vaylin allied with Scorpio and took the Throne. Scorpio gave free will to all of her “children”. What a crappy ending. And the fight with Arcann was way to easy (no surprise here tho).

    • guest

      I agree but that’s kind of emblematic of the whole expansion. They went for large scale drama and it ended up being cartoony with one note villains and grey force mysticism.
      Most interesting thing was the Scorpio stuff.

      The last couple of chapters before this one were well done, Kudos on the level design and execution. At least they added a couple of minibosses to this one with some mechanics. The arcann fight was rather underwhelming. And falling debris again. ugh. why.

      • Sarigar

        I was glad they didn’t compromise SCORPIO; it made no sense for her to want to rule the Eternal Empire. I wasn’t entirely sold on her switching gears so completely on the GEMINI droids (from “abominations” to “my children”), but I could at least see how she’d make the transition. I figured Vaylin was going to end up in charge one way or another, that was as good a way as any, given how they got to that point.

        • Paulo Gomes

          She’s the most interesting point in this expansion, and she’s been around since Vanilla… The turn was too fast, it should have been done in a smoother fashion. But it makes sense in the end.

          SCORPIO is playing everybody! She’s the actual mastermind of this expansion, and the ONLY ONE TO ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING!

          The rest are just switching gears, reacting to what happens. She was the one with the master plan.

          Good job, SCORPIO! 😉

    • Darth Twinge

      Yeah….
      When I chose the choice “Kill Arcann” I expected to run him through, decapitate him, something. Nope. Choice didn’t matter. Then when I chose to shoot him and his mother out of the sky. Didn’t work. Choice didn’t matter. It wasn’t even worth any light or dark points!
      As for my original choice that DID matter way back when and made Koth betray me? Now it doesn’t matter anymore because he has been hiding in the janitor closet of the Gravestone the whole time.
      The choices matter thing wouldnt bother me so much, since they didnt matter in previous content, except that they advertised KOTFE that way, and Musco made a big deal about it multiple times.
      Hell, my main is pure Dark V and I didn’t op to kill Satele, and took the saber bonus from both her and Marr thinking it would be important. Nope. It just adds a conversation choice while fighting Arcann and he laughs at your for taking his fathers advice.
      Overall, I still had fun with KOTFE, but it probably would have felt stronger had it all come out at once like previous expansions, instead of dragged out over a years time with minimal updates to endgame.

    • TGY

      If they let you kill Arcann, he would just return as a Force ghost in your head. Think of the eternal bickering between him and Valkorian! They could call the sequel ‘Knights of the Eternal Bickering’.

      Plus, falling debris is a guy’s best friend.

  • Rompe Himself

    “In The Battle of Odessen, Arcann launches an all-out assault against the
    Outlander’s base. Still recovering from a shattering betrayal of the
    now-renegade droid, SCORPIO, the Outlander’s Alliance must rally to
    defeat Arcann’s forces in a desperate battle to determine the fate of
    the galaxy once and for all. Play and be a part of the concluding
    chapter as you fight your way to Knights of the Eternal Throne, the new
    digital expansion coming this fall!”

    What? People actually believed Bioware’s promoting of how this would be such an epic finale for KOTFE and determine the fate of the Galaxy? Come on, who didn’t see that Arcann was going to survive into the next expansion before this even came out and it would end with sweet fuck all coming of it all YET again like every other shit chapter. Given how awful KOTFE has been, I truly hold such low expectations for KOTET.

    I think I need a warped and unrealistic opinion/view on this chapter to make me laugh. Where is that Bioware hand maiden Gguy at to tell me how amazing it was?? Yo Gguy, tell us how amazing this chapter was for you!! 😛

    • Razzy

      Remember, will all try to Blame Bioware, but it’s always the “Money Bosse’s” EA that controls their ultimate bottom line the Funding for all it’s worth

      • Rompe Himself

        True enough to some extent. But the fact is some clown’s at Bioware Austin wrote KOTFE and thought this was the shit and comparable to anything from the original SWTOR which is laughable. KOTFE could have been written by a 5 year old and had less plot holes and meaning.

        No, while EA may control the budget and resources, it is still on Bioware Austin for writing such a shit story and delivering the most on the rails gameplay to date.

    • Vladislav

      He listed to my advice and now telling
      “WHAT EPIC STORY, BIOWARE, I WANT CHILDRENS FROM YOU” (c)
      At official forums.

  • End

    Worst chapter to date. Its literally like they want us to see the writing on the wall so that we are not disappointed or suprised when they discontinue support for the game sometime early next year (in my opinion)

    • Darth Decimus

      For me it was really dissapointing that the ending credits were longer than the chapter, and yeah, I think so that they put them because they gonna shut down the game.

      • Razzy

        LOL. totally agree, on this point

      • Risqu’e

        They have put the end credits before. It happens everytime you finish the current single player content. In other words originally it was after you finished your class story, then after you finished ROTH then after you finished, SOR. But once an expansion is no longer the current one, it doesnt play them after it anymore.

    • Rip

      Agreed. No cliff hangers even at all to want to keep you subscribed and engaged it was exactly what you thought would happen.I unsubscribed yesterday as there is nothing left, even when the new content is out we’ve already got a 16 chapter taste of how it will be, utter shit.

    • Swedguy

      Last expansion ought to be pretty fun to play, having all Imps die and the Sith Empire shatter.

  • Seph

    Ugh. I can’t take this any more. I want my Sith to be a Sith. Not some neutered, Kumbaya singing light/dark combo force user who’s teaming up with a bunch of goodie-goodie pubs. I want to be a Sith. And one who has new ops to do.

    • Syralas

      This! I just want the whole sith vs. jedi back. Neutral is good on the side, but the whole SW is about the battle between dark and light.

  • Gr3yStar

    Choosing the neutral options during Guss’ alliance alert when trying to get the ale will give you the best results.

    • sdfasfsfa

      Why is that and what makes it the best?

      • Gr3yStar

        Well, I can’t speak for DS choices, but LS choices make you fail the wager you have by Guss failing to learn how to actually do the mind trick. If you encourage him by neutral choices, he learns the mind trick and you win the wager. By winning the wager, the force master will help you train other force sensitives from time to time.

        • Kaliyaa

          So more and more “choices” punish you if you arent neutral or gray. Whos writing this thing Kreia from KOTOR2?

  • Dk-io

    Total Bullshit

  • Guest

    So can guss use a lightsaber now?

    • Reeberus

      Yes

  • Sv3

    Just great. F’ing Koth comes back. Total bullshit. This whole thing is bullshit. I unsubbed after Chapter 13 because I just can’t take it anymore, now this. Bringing back a very shallow character would not win my sub money. Where’s Jessa ffs.

    • Rompe Himself

      In KOTET. Where else?? 😛

      And really what does it matter any more? Just go summon her back with the terminal since KOTFE just showed that it doesn’t matter whatsoever what companion you have or didn’t recruit, what affection rating you have nor what alliance rating you have with the different departments. It’s all bullshit so just use the terminal and bring back your companion already.

      • Veno

        Your choices matter don’t forget that 🙂

        • Sv3

          Right, just like it matters when I kicked out Koth. >.<'

          Why can't I just kill him like I did with Aric Jorgan?

          I'm a Sith, so it's my way or the highway. And if you choose the highway, you better not come back else you'll get a light saber in the gut.

          How come I can kill Jorgan and not Koth?

    • Dread Master Ozariah

      Chapter 13 wasn’t bad at all, actually.

      • Sv3

        Um, it is. They made Arcann and Vaylin dumb just so they have a story. The mission quests are not even believable. This whole time when you and your alliance is forming up a plan, Arcann just sits there on the throne waiting for you to do what you do. Is he dead in the head? Why isn’t he making plans of his own. He and his sister are very strong in the force, why can’t they use that to formulate a plan or predict my next move? A dumb bad guys makes me and the whole alliance nothing but amateurs. Letting SCORPIO assume the throne shows how stupid Arcann and Vaylin are.

        Now Arcann is attacking the alliance knowing fully well that his father is helping us. He hasn’t even dealt with the emperor yet, what makes him think he can win this time? Oh wait, he is stupid, he got to be, unless he somehow knew that the emperor threw a fit, for some f’king reason.

        Now useless Koth comes back. Ugh!

        • Dread Master Ozariah

          Nope, you simply refuse to see a bigger picture. Arcann is obsessed with his father, he is an angry child, jealous of Valkorions achievements. It was shown in the first trailer and through the Story, that Arcann is no way a good Emperor. All his rule stand on fanatical loyalty of his family’s followers and fear, while Arcann himself is not a Leader material. And it is not a bad writing, it is what he was meant to be from the start. A pretender, who can’t cast aside his own emotions and fears for the best of his Empire. At this way he reminds me of Kylo Ren at some point.
          Vaylin on the contrary is not obsessed with her father, but her Mother. But even considering this is psychotic and maniacal little monster, she is way smarter then her brother. As a High Justice, Vaylin was an adviser to the Emperor Arcann and it was shown many times through story, that Vaylin tried to convince her brother to act wisely. If only Arcann would listen to his sister more often, they could already turn Outlander’s life into a real nightmare. They could cath him on Zakuul, when he visited their homeworld to find SCORPIO. They could respond to Mandalorians attack and even stop Outlanders plans to get GEMINI Prime. But she couldn’t act without approval of her Emperor and she just watched, from the bind of his back, how her brother makes more and more fatal mistakes.
          Arcann so obsessed with his father, that he is not even able to see reason. He doesn’t even care for Zakuul. He wants attention of his father, he wants to be a worthy opponent in his father’s eyes. But all he got, was a complete ignore and what’s worse, Emperor praised some Outlander, not even his own son that did everything to get his attention, but some outsider. And that makes Arcann even more furious. He doesn’t even consider Alliance or the Outlander a threat. Until the very end of his duel with the Commander, the only thing he cared about, was attention of his father.
          SCORPIO out played everyone and this is really shouldn’t surprise anyone. I am facepalming at all those people, who was so naive to believe, she won’t betray you. At all those agents(yes, i played through agents story and did SCORPIO’s quests.), who was so naive to believe, SCORPIO ever was loyal to them. Yes, she respected them. But nothing more. She masterly used both Alliance and Zakuul to gain what she wanted, she became a valuable asset to the Alliance, that couldn’t do so much without her help, including steal of all those treasures in Profit and Plunder. It was also obvious to me at least, that her taking control over the Eternal Throne wasn’t meant to gain control over the Eternal Empire. While her and her children’s story still leave a lot questions unanswered, we shouldn’t forget that SCORPIO was built in the times, when Sith Empire and even maybe the Republic didn’t exist. There is so much we don’t know about her even little. And everything we learned from kotfe and agent’s story is but a fragments of another fragments of another fragments of her whole personality.
          What about Koth? He is a patriot of his people, so he is not one of those characters, who will serve you blindly. He has his own ideals and principles and he would rather try to defeat Arcann, SCORPIO and Vaylin in a desperate move, rather then serve someone who is no way better then Arcann and maybe even worse. It was clear to me, that there are a lot of people in the alliance, who actually was disagreed with Dark Commander’s decisions. Who, like Koth, would rather leave an abomination, called an Alliance. And it was Commanders and his followers fault and only theirs, that Koth was able to win some allies in the alliance and sneak to the gravestone, when no one expected this. It is not showing how Koth is stupid, it shows what a dumbass Leader our character, that follows the path of absolute destruction, obsessed with his vengeance that he refuse to see a bigger picture and make decision not out of emotions, but out of Logic.
          That is my opinion and i do not force anyone to believe in what i believe.

          • TGY

            I like you.

            • Dread Master Ozariah

              . _.

          • Sv3

            Yes, everyone who played the chapters knows about the “bigger picture” but still doesn’t explain why a “patriot” like Koth would comeback even after saying that he’ll do things his way. And why can’t I kill him, he’s never important.

            I also don’t accept the idea that Arcann is obsessed with his father at all. To me, he’s like Scar taking the Pride Rock after killing Mufasa. Once he got what he wanted, he doesn’t know what to do with it — no management skills at all. All these sky troopers are nothing but his hyenas. The Outlander is Simba guided by the dead father. Do you see now where did BioWare get their “creative thinking”? Disney owns Start War so BioWare used the Lion King for their expansion. The final fight is straight out of the movie also. /facepalm

            So where did they took their creative thinking about SCORPIO’s betrayal? Ever watched the Thor 2? Do you see the similarity of Loki and SCORPIO’s goal? Helping the protagonist so that they can assume the throne while the rightful heir to the throne is away fighting? And who owns Marvel? That’s right Disney. BioWare writers watch too many Disney movies.

            Arcann and Kylo has nothing in common other than the fact that they don’t seek anyone’s approval. At least Kylo is an original character based on no one in Disney’s. Kylo don’t want his father’s approval, he’s blindly following Anakin’s foot steps.

            This expansion would have panned out beautifully if they didn’t create a one-size-fits-all story. I can already imagine the way my Sith Warrior will approach this situation and it’s not something what I’ve been forced to do the whole expansion. Havok Squad will have a completely different approach. My Imperial Agent will have a different approach. Each story line would give this expansion a lot of replayability, but alas, let’s play the Lion King in the galaxy far, far away settings. To many missed opportunity, too much bullshit.

            • Dread Master Ozariah

              It’s a nice opinion. While i actually completely disagree with you on the points about Arcann and Koth and on your references to the Lion King and marvel… Really, watched all this many times and don’t you dare call me dumb, i don’t feel any similarities. So, i do accept, that with the all nice stuff then brought to us in KOTFE, the overall of all this… lets just say, i did like the story, but i didn’t like all this choice matters bullshit.

  • MKDAWUSS

    Do you need Blizz to get Guss?

    • Danny Seth

      Absolutely.

  • ST

    More importantly: is it possible to beat Guss ‘ face to pulp, then shove my lightsaber up his wherethelightdontshine and then cut his dump excuse of carbon compounds into tiny pieces of meatballs. Or rather fish sticks.

    That”s the question.

    • Reeberus

      Why would you do that. Poor Guss, life’s already hard enough on him as it is.

  • Paulo Gomes

    Boy, I thought Batman vs Superman had plot holes, THEN I watched this…

    *SPOILER ALERT*

    Can someone please explain to me how Koth and HIS ENTIRE TEAM are able to infiltrate the Gravestone in Odessen (a super-secret Alliance military base)? Not to mention, he appears out of thin air. How do choices matter if your actions with Kalyio drove him to abandon you?

    The whole plot is weak, and worst of all: there is NO closure. For a Star Wars MMO, these people have to do a better job with their storytelling. No closure, no answers, just setting up the next expansion…

    And I thought the ending to Mass Effect 3 was weak… Come on guys: if this is the best you can do… It’s not nearly good enough. Epic storytelling… Yeah right… Epic FAIL I say…

    • Sarigar

      Koth appearing out of nowhere was intolerably aggravating. It’s been many months since the Alliance formed: fully crewing the Gravestone, WITH security, would have been one of my highest priorities. Presumably, it would have been high on Admiral Aygo’s list as well. And yet, when Arcann shows up, we go flying off to meet him with less than a skeleton crew on board.

      Then Koth boards the ship, completely unnoticed (which, to be fair, is possible since we saw that those shuttles have stealth capability in the Star Fortress missions), and takes command of the ship by himself. Nobody thought to change the access codes? Or revoke Koth’s access? Or tell security to detain (or kill) him on sight? Or put more than one tracking system aboard the ship? Or build in a remote operating system to override attempts to steal it? The list of unforgivably terrible oversights required to allow him to steal the Gravestone makes my head spin.

    • Guest

      Simple, Koth never left. He has been hiding in a Czerka crate-o-matic in the cargo hold the entire time. He only came out at night to steal food and empty his toilet bucket.

    • Darth Decimus

      The same can be applied to Scorpio giving the throne to Vaylin so easily, that was so forced.

      • Paulo Gomes

        Yeah, it was too fast a turn, but at least it made sense. I see it as SCORPIO, the only of her kind, finding the lost link to her “species” and releasing them from enslavement, actually. So was it forced? Absolutely. BUT it made sense, to me at least.

        • Andhros

          I don’t necessarily consider it a turn. SCORPIO is playing chess while the rest of the galaxy seems to be playing tic-tac-toe. In all honesty I figured that she released the fleet to look for something and that ruling in the mean time is a bother so let someone else do it. It seemd to me that SCORPIO was already manipulating Vaylin before she even sat down.

          • Paulo Gomes

            Could be. That’s a nice analogy, playing chess while the others are tic-tac-toeing.

            It’s funny how the most interesting character to come out of this expansion is a companion we’ve had since Vanilla, though… AND from my favourite class too, my main is a Sniper, and I used to main an Operative healer, before the “Mother of all Nerfs”…

            I sincerely hope they don’t mess her up…

      • Risqu’e

        I think now that SCORPIO has freed the all the GEMINI, it is basically “Mission Accomplished” for her. So she does not need the throne anymore so she might as well hand it over to Vaylin. She likely plans to betray her to the outlander anyways.

    • Andhros

      Not entirely sure what you mean with your choices matter comment. If you chose to be DS he leaves, comes back and steals your ship. If LS he never leaves, but gets pissy that you let Arcann and Senya go. The choices won’t matter if KotET starts out minus Koth and Gravestone who are searching for Arcann regardless of what you did.

      • Paulo Gomes

        Exactly. The choices you made don’t matter on the final outcome, no matter how you look at it.

        So, choices don’t really matter, do they?

        • DLM3

          On one hand you say that choices don’t matter but you also say “How do choices matter if your actions with Kalyio drove him to abandon you?”. So since he left due to your action… choice did matter. Right? I swear there are so many idiots around.

          • Paulo Gomes

            No! Because he returned and did EXACTLY the same thing as if he had not left at all… For different reasons, sure. But the OUTCOME is the same…

          • Harold

            They seem to follow the Telltale Games strategy. It seems like you are making real choices but everything will still end up exactly the same. You may have some differences during your story but you still end up with the exact same. For example if Koth leaves the Alliance. You have the exact same things happening just with a different character (Tora). This is not a real change of gameplay. A great example would be Nick in Season 2 of The Walking Dead. He dies either way, no matter if you decide to help him or not. You are blamed for his death nonetheless. This is exactly how KOTFE ended. It doesn’t matter one tiny bit what decisions you’ve made. Where are the Sions? They’ve claimed to help you against Arcann when it is time. It doesn’t matter if you chose to team up with them or not. It doesn’t even matter if you decide to kill Arcann because the game takes the choice away from you. You are blamed for shooting at Senya and you are also blamed for not doing it. The same outcome. The worst example should be Tanno Vik. It doesn’t matter at all if you let him live or not. You don’t even get access to him as a trooper if you let him live and there is no penalty for killing him since he just vanquishes. This truly shows the “choice” you have in this game.

  • Darth Something the great

    Amazing chapter. Loved it all the way through. Glad I didn’t piss off Koth.

  • It’s boring now

    I finished this last night. It’s early morning now. I’m still waiting for the “significant emotional impact” that Ben Irving said we would get, But if that emotion they were looking for is ANGER then I guess they delivered. What a total fuckin’ shit show this has been. KOTFE really made me appreciate the shit show that SoR was.

  • theBean

    Glad we had to go through a side adventure to get a special weapon to defeat Arconn and not have it matter in the battle at all. Oh but some piece of junk laying around is the key to winning the battle. Let me get my wallet out and resub cause that’s freak’n awesome…uhhhhhh no

    • Nuno Bacharel

      I did not use it, but I read here that it gives some buffs. Will try it when going for DS story

      • Disqus this

        You do get 2 abilities but there overall useless and not even needed.

        Just use this new thing they give and it’s over.

        • Nuno Bacharel

          Yeah, I mean, why should I bother strip my current weapon of it’s mod, enhancement, crystal, hilt and augment and use in the crafted one..?

          • Guest

            Unless it’s a crafted crystal there is no reason to remove it, just use one from collections. And if you don’t have a cartel crystal you need to get one just for thing like this, color doesn’t really matter for 20 min of game play.

            • Nuno Bacharel

              I’m a cheap bastard, not gonna waste credits removing my stuff. Gonna get the modificatons with green comms 😛

          • Disqus this

            No need to. It would be a waste of time and credits to do.

    • It’s boring now

      Yeah, I ran the chapter first on my DvL character I made. Totally forgot to equip that weapon until after the fight started. I kept wondering if I was going to need it at some point. Nope.

      • Ben Gimson

        Arcann could have at least commented on it if you had it equipped. Visions in the Dark was just a total nonsense chapter anyway. Can’t say I’m surprised the lightsaber came in useless.

    • DLM3

      You still benefit from the buffs since you are in combat with Arcann, so you still get the self heal or increased movement during the fight for instance. The fact that you barely need your weapon is actually nice since you don’t need to swap your mods into it.

  • Norune

    ‘Pity so many of them will have to die…’ So, who died?

    • Dread Master Ozariah

      Poor droids of zakuul ofc.

    • Paulo Gomes

      My subscription did.

    • Rob

      haha, the ones who died I killed. Arcann didn’t kill anyone 😛

    • Norune

      You know nothing, Darth Marr.

    • Kaliyaa

      Yep. I felt that based on your decisions, whoever you chose to come with to disable the guns and shields should have died. As well as possibly Lana. Senya and Arcann too.
      But no.

      • Ben Gimson

        Lana and Theron need to stay, imho, beyond this expansion. We’ll never get meaningful companions otherwise, and given how their respective factions have failed them repeatedly it would make sense for them to stick with the one person who they’ve turned to when their own people couldn’t get shit right.

      • Andhros

        I was thinking more along the lines of ME2. They could have died if you give them an unsuitable job. Like having Vette or Gault work with Jorgan and Kaliyo would have caused some deaths, or Torian or Gault would have died attempting to sneak into turret control. They also could have died by giving them bad or evil instructions.

  • Rob

    It was a pretty disgraceful ending tbh, after subbing for the best part of 5 years it’ll be the end for me I think. At least with ROTHC and SoR when had to purchase the expansion, they seemed to think it through with Ops and additional planet added as the year went on, Oricon with 2 Ops!! and Ziost which had a decent story that never gets resolved (why did the Sith emperor destroy Ziost and then fuck off to Zakuul? as the year went on. I remember waiting fondly for updates, now I don’t, I know they’ll be a bit let down. The lack of group content for an MMO has been outrageous, I’ve levelled 2 characters in LvD to 65 without talking to a human, this shouldn’t be possible 🙁

    • Syralas

      Watching the Empire and Republic battling Zakuul while we learn more about the Sith Emperor would’ve been a better story than this. A prequel to KoTFE please.

      • Rob

        Sith Emperor goes from annihilating the two planets to family man :/ Would love to see the reasoning behind this 😛

        • Risqu’e

          There wasnt really a time gap between the end of SOR and the opening of KOTFE. But his children are all like 25-30 years old. And no one else aged in that time frame. So in theory Valkorian wasnt really Vitiate at all. He was either already existant and Vitiate possessed him / killed him and replaced him, or Valkorian is something similar to the “Emperors Voice” “Emperors Hand” concept where he is the Emperor but not really.

          • Hunter

            Actually what I gathered by playing through with my Inquistor is that The Empire was just a side project. He’s been working on Zakuul since or even before he had become Emperor. So it is still Vitiate, he just took a different face and name to act as a different person to his true Empire. So the Pubs vs Imps was just a distraction while he built his true kingdom far from civilization until he was powerful enough to finally destroy both sides of the war.

            • Skeletor

              And yet he was supposedly in some sort of stasis in the Yavin Temple that Revan just had to free him from and in so doing was allowed to destroy Ziost. So how did he have a side project if his spirit was trapped otherwise?

              • Guest

                Wasn’t he trapped with Revan since right after KOTOR II? Wasn’t Revan “battling” him in his mind all this time? His body wasteing away, and that’s why he had the Emperors Voice and Wrath?

              • Rob

                so is Valkorian Vitiate? I actually wanna know. I mean Vitiate lays waste to Nametha and Ziost, to prolong his life, in the hopes of ending all life in the galaxy eventually, right? So why would Vitiate as Valkorian build a side Empire that we are supposed to believe is it’s Golden Age. Wouldn’t he, Vitiate, have to wipe them out to?

              • Rob

                I think they royally messed the Story of Vitiate up. The ‘Knight’ story, although not my favourite, is decent. Are they essentially saying this is no longer relevant to SWTOR lore? I seems they couldn’t be bothered to actually end Vitiate’s story so they rehashed him into Valkorian. It makes little sense tho 🙁

              • guest

                Even before SoR, you knew that the Knight accomplished nothing as soon as you finished Voss on a Warrior. At this point Vitiate is basically a force deity, What Baras traps, and the Knight and Warrior kill are just vessels for Vitiate’s conscience (or rather just part of it).

                As I see it, when Revan was captured and just wouldn’t shut up, a large part of that entity retreated to the unknown regions to find some peace of mind, and thus became Valkorion.

              • Rob

                That pulls a few parts of the story together, a solid theory. Pity you aren’t of Bioware Story detail 🙂

              • Ben Gimson

                Because BW literally make it up as they go along.

              • Guest

                Hey, it’s Star Wars, it fits. Lucas made up the prequels as he went. Qui Gonn Jinn, that is all.

              • Ben Gimson

                And of course the prequels are beloved by all :’)

                Winging it’s fine, if they can make it work, which evidently the writers at BW can’t or for some reason don’t. The massive U-turn on the character doesn’t match up to what they’d already established about Vitiate/Valky.

              • Andhros

                I think it matches in the same way that “Once Upon a Time” matches the characters to their backgrounds. There are several kernels of truth that are then extrapolated to take a character into new directions.

                Unfortunately, Vitiate is a typical example of what happens. They take his power, boredom and curiosity and morph the character to fit a narrative rather than let a characters traits organically develop.

              • Jinn

                Oops

              • Andhros

                Not necessarily. Vitiate says that not all life will be extinguished and mentions that he will become whatever he wants, saying that he will spend one life as a farmer another as other organisms.

                Vitiate seems to get bored and move on to the new project leaving whatever he was doing unfinished. So it is entirely possible that while his Eternal Empire, and family?, hold his interest for now in a century he could devour them, spark a rebellion, or just disappear into the night.

          • Gildor

            I don’t know why people have it so complicate with the issue with Valkorion/Vitiate, his original body is of a pure blood sith, so any other body or aperiance he has is just a body he possess, a ‘voice’, the knight killed vitiate, most of him and his power were in it, so he got weeked, but that body was new since the warrior have to kill another voice to free him from Sel-Makor. For what Senya say Valkorion went into long periods of absence, Marr say the same thing about Vitiate. So when Arcann/Outlander killed Valkorion he got weeked again getting into the outlander to survive. but if you want to trully kill Vitiate you need to kill the pure blood sith body and no one knows were it is.

            • Rob

              My issue isn’t with his Voice or current body. I mean I assume the force is involved so we leave that be. My issue is the difference between Vitiate and Valkorian’s motives. Vitiate gets betrayed by Scourge due to his hunger to end all life in the galaxy and Vitiate wipes out life on Namentha and Ziost. But as Valkorian he’s created another civilisation. So Vitiate has a lust for death, whereas Valkorian wants to create and love (married with kids lol). The difference in personality is really frustrating. I cannot accept that Vitiate is Valkorian until an explanation for this put into the story, and not just theories from fans. I want it in writing 😛

              • Gildor

                The true is we don’t know whats the Valkorion/Vitiate agenda is, he can say alot of things but they are only his words and he lies alot, lots of people complains about the differences of what the NPCs say, that BioWare is poor at writing but the true is that any NPC say their version of the lore, thats what they know, we players know much more than any NCP or class toon, Vitiate could spend centuries saying he would end all life but that doesn’t means it what he true porpose is.

              • Rob

                I agree that his real agenda is now unknown, but before KOTFE his agenda was wildly known. He wanted to kill everyone, why did they mess with that just to satisfy an ending to Ziost that we never got.

                We could’ve killed him on Ziost and then gone in wild space at the start of KOTFE in search of the people that destroyed Rep/Imp outposts and discovered Zakuul. Arcann would still want to kill Valkorian and Valkorian, not Vitiate’s spirit, would dwell inside us. Therefore LS choices of not trusting his power and DS of embracing that power would still be an option.

                For me the whole Vitiate is Valkorian has made this expansion very unlikable, just for the reason that it largely goes against the previous 4 years of story and what we know of Vitiate’s history.

            • Dazed and confused

              I thought the real body was inside the temple of sacrifice and thats why revan was going there: To finish him off once and for all, and we ruined it allowing his spirit to run off and blow shit up.
              In theory we just need to omnicannon Yavin. but of course that would mean ANH couldnt happen. Damn

      • Rob

        The sooner they abandon this Zakuul Empire and return us to Jedi vs Sith, Rep vs Imp and Light vs Dark, the far better the game will be

        • Syralas

          I guess they need this because they can’t (won’t) do 2 separate story arcs for imps and reps. Need moar devs on CM stuff!

          • Rob

            lol, more ‘creativity’ goes into the packs than the actual game. Such a waste of resources. But i guess someone is buying packs otherwise they wouldn’t bother 🙁

    • Chance

      Bye. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, sweetie. 🙂

      • Shawn

        ^another lost fanboy who is perfectly happy slopping up the shite BEAware feeds you. Whats it like paying monthly for a game that you play on your own? and if you are still grinding ops, whats it like playing the same content for the last two years?

        • randy191993

          It’s the same as any other MMO really. They’re all pretty much the same by now.

          • Dakit

            I recommend FFXIV, hidden gem of mmo’s, might not have a lot of voice overs until after the base 2.0 game, but story is epic from 2.1 through 3.3, with more and more voice overs as it updated/expansions.

            More content then any other MMO released in it’s 3 years by a long shot (except WoW).

          • Fred Garvin

          • claude1864

            I play SWGEmu in my spare time. The best MMO ever was the original SWG. SWTOR isw nothing like SWG. It was a true sandbox and had way better space combat. The swg space combat was simulator not rail job. Way better game than any available at this time.

      • Rob

        So Chance, what do you look for in your MMO experience? This is not and no matter how we all want it to be, KOTOR 3.

      • Fred Garvin

        …..

    • Yeah, I’m stepping out now too. It’s such a shame, because I really wanted to like this game and stick through to the end. Hopefully a much better Star Wars MMO will eventually replace or, at least something I can roleplay on. Bioware Austin clearly just does not care and isn’t interested in delivering quality content or meeting the expectations they themselves relayed to fans and supporters to expect.

  • Firnon Zodd

    Is this seriously out already? I usually have to wait until after lunch for the updates to be put in and the servers to get back up.

    • Risqu’e

      It launched a day ahead of schedule. Yesterday

      • Seph

        One day early!! Oh wait, actually 11 days late.

        • Veno

          That’s bioware early x’D

          • Seph

            Lol

      • Firnon Zodd

        Odd, the launcher doesn’t say anything about it. Nor do the patch notes on the main site.

  • Guest

    Plot summary: Due to a revelation from SCORPIO, you take the Gravestone to an enemy capital ship, which you board with a small strike force. You fight your way to the bridge, where you confront and defeat a major villain, who survives anyway. SCORPIO betrays you and destroys the ship, and the chapter ends with a cutscene of a new villain seating herself on the Iron Throne. Wait… which chapter was this again…

    • Disqus this

      Hard to tell isn’t it. They all pretty much sucked in the grand scheme of the overall story.

      Just think. You could space bar that entire chapter and it would turn out the same. Nothing accomplished for your efforts over 16 chapters.

      There is bad story writing and then theirs BW bad.

  • It’s boring now

    For anyone who hasn’t done this chapter yet I recommend excessive use of your spacebar ALL the way through to the end. That way you won’t be upset with it’s shitty ending.

    • Darth-Robin

      i sat through that miserable ending called mass effect 3 and dragon age inquisition.
      i think i will be fine with this one:P

      • Disqus this

        No you wont. It’s not a whole new level of bad but it’s on par.

        • mfv

          naaaah. you’re exaggerating.

          • Disqus this

            Not even a little. It’s just bad. 16 chapters. Nothing resolved. A massive anticlimactic ending to a mission you don’t get to complete and the entire thing ends and you are no better off then when you started. It’s pretty much the epitome of pointless .

        • randy191993

          It was pretty fine actually. Unless you’ve been a douchebag all the way trough the story, in which case you get what you deserve.

          • Disqus this

            Even if you were a total DS killer or douche it means nothing in the end. Get rid of Koth. WTF he comes back. Try to kill arcann who you have wanted to kill since chapter one. Sorry, BW will give you 2 choices to do it and deny you actually doing it every time.

            The story was crap. Choices meant nothing even with getting rid of koth and the gravestone. Such a waste of time.

  • vfm

    Torian says: Ib’tuur jatne tuur ash’ad kyr’amur

    someone facerolled on the keyboard when writing script lines.

    • Boba

      It’s Mandolorian smart guy

      • Guest

        Someone facrolled on the keyboard when writing script lines.
        Mando is less of a language then Klingon, smart guy.

    • Secundum

      Newbie confirmed! Go back to Star Trek!

      • Andhros

        You’re just jealous that the language isn’t as beautiful and developed as Tolkien’s Elvish.
        (Only other franchise with developed language I know) 🙂

        • Secundum

          Elves confirmed as Mandalorians.
          Half Life 3 confirmed!

  • MKDAWUSS

    Would it have been better had the flagship been destroyed mid-fight with an immediate cut to the credits?

  • Sarigar

    Another annoyance: how did Vaylin survive? Would she even know where to look for escape pods? And how did an escape pod, if that’s what she used, manage to escape the gigantic shitstorm explosion of Arcann’s fleet blowing up? Did she steal a fighter, and nobody noticed? When did she master starship flight and hyperspace navigation?

    Very frustrating chapter.

    • Vladislav

      Well…. Force?

      • Sarigar

        Yeah… a space wizard did it.

        • Andhros

          Or Lucy Lawless

    • Thorne

      She used a sorc force bubble jumped out the airlock and floated over?

    • Shawn Hargrave

      she survived by buying a rez droid on the cartel market.

    • Secundum

      She used her ‘return to personal spaceship’ quick travel.

    • Andhros

      In theory, SCORPIO could have done it. She does seem to be masterminding something and maybe this time she needs Vaylin to complete it.

      I am more curious as to how useful the Eternal Throne is now that a bunch of psuedo-SCORPIOs have been granted freedom, with only SCORPIO having anything resembling control. Not to mention how useful is a “super-secret” base that everyone knows how to find.

      I was actually kind of excited, I figured that KotET would operate like Battlestar Galactica where we lost the now useless secret base, but kept the still useful starship and built a fleet around it. Now it looks like DS loses the Gravestone, and seeing how Koth acted at the end of the LS it would not surprise me if the first thing that we learn in KotET is how Koth is attempting to locate Arcann and Senya with the Gravestone. I expect that we will get a slightly different dialogue depending on whether Koth stole the ship or we are letting him use it to appease his anger.

    • Guest

      Why do you assume she couldn’t fly a ship? As for no one noticing her leave, if you are on one side of a van with no windows and I’m on the other, how do you know I’ve walked away? I’m more frustrated with Arcaan not being dead. I was given a choice, it literally said (kill Arcaan). Forget the whole joke about “choices matter” when it says something like that it the game I expect that is what happens. My option didn’t say (shoot Arcaan in the gut and assume he’s dead).

      • Sarigar

        I know that being an adept in whatever area of expertise is currently needed is a trait most important people in Star Wars share, but given that we know Vaylin has been “held back” for virtually her entire life, and not having even left Zakuul until Arcann came into power, it doesn’t seem like a stretch that Valkorion might not have sprung for her getting flying and space navigation lessons.

        I agree on Arcann, I ranted about that elsewhere.

        • Guest

          Ok I see your point. Now I will offer another counter. Being raised as a spoiled, held back child what if she had a personal ship with a droid pilot? That would fit with being the daughter of the Emperor, plus their whole society is based on droids doing everything.

          • Sarigar

            It’s as good a guess as any!

            • Rob

              I would assume she could fly a ship, I mean most of us old enough can drive, even those who get driven around. I share your frustrations at this chapter, which only raised more questions and didn’t answer any. When Valkorian said ‘you are ready’, i was like what am I ready for!! I didn’t take his help once on LS and suddenly he’s back and is my buddy.

              Having thought on it a bit more I can only assume that the next Expansion will be the last and by leaving so many things unanswered they are trying to get as many of us to continue subbing for next time, in the hope that we get some closure next year 🙁

              • Andhros

                I think they stated there were 3 seasons planned for Zakuul. Knowing BW after we finally get the now powerless throne we will discover that Vitiate was using his children as a measuring stick for us, because he was secretly preparing the outlander for the impending “Yuuzhan Vong precursor” invasion. And then we will have to find and destroy the talisman that houses his actual soul so we can finally rid the galaxy of him. Only to discover that he has 6 other horcruxes including the one inside of the Outlander.

              • Caveman

                Or find out that we aren’t the only outlander but there are so many (the same amount as player characters that started the expansion) and he infested all of them. 😉

              • Heya

                The yu zhan vong idea is good

            • Paulo Gomes

              Well, but that’s the main problem, isn’t it? The main reason I was drawn to the whole Star Wars universe was that there WAS an explanation for it. The whole universe was very well explained to start with.

              In other words, we shouldn’t have to guess. As I said down bellow, plot wise this thing has more holes than a Swiss cheese.

              Was it too hard to do a small cutscene where she was actually escaping in a ship?

              Was it too much to ask for another small cutscene where Koth boards the Gravestone with his crew?

              Epic storytelling doesn’t make people guess stuff.

              Just my 2 cents in there anyways.

              • Andhros

                Anyone who logs in and purchases the content before October will receive a free “extended cut” that answers these questions and provides a more satisfying resolution. Afterwards it will be available in the CM for a reasonable rate.

                Act quickly to discover why the Normandy was flying away from an explosion. How the teammate you were fighting with appeared on the ship in the finale, and what the survivors are doing… what a minute… I mean

                Find out how Vaylin survives the explosion and manages to make it back to Zakuul despite all the long range FTL ships in the fleet having seemingly been vaporized. How Koth and crew stowed aboard the gravestone and remained unnoticed, or how Lana and the Outlander gave Koth permission to use the Gravestone to search for Arcann and Senya, and stop this dangerous 1 armed man who has no fleet or army while ignoring the fact that the enemy with a fleet and army now knows exactly where to find them. In order for both DS and LS to have the same starting point for the next expansion.

              • me

                lol you got it bud, BIOWARE has been shit since Mass Effect 2 and first Dragon Age. Oh well, we got spoiled by Kotor, Baldur’s Gate, Mass Effect, etc.
                Right about the time EA took over, shocker.

              • Darth-Robin

                first dragon age? you mean origins? if so then fuck you 🙂 origins is 1 awesome of a game
                dragon gayage 2 was when EA got involved (i dont hate homoseksuels just the way DA2 kinda shoves it in your face)

              • me

                i did not word that very well I meant after DA origins and mass effect 2. I loved both of those games. Ha your wordage of DA is spot on 2, i did not even bother with it (or 3 for that matter).
                Here’s hoping for Andromeda….

              • Darth-Robin

                aha then all is well you are forgiven as the maker intended ^^
                and yeah andromeda personally i dont have high hopes so if bioware is capable of blowing me away with andromeda then a little bit of hope is restored

    • Johnny

      I’m more curious about where the hell Senya went when you split up. She obviously didn’t go find Vaylin like she said she was going too.

      • Stitch

        The restroom was locked so she went to find a different one but ended up on the bridge by mistake.

        • Christopher Tranter

          I thought when watching the end cut scene when I did it that she looked like someone who needed to pee.

          Brings new meaning to Knights of the Eternal Throne now.

  • randy191993

    I liked the chapter. But then i wasn’t a douchebag all the way trough the story so i got the good ending. And it was a good chapter.

    • Reeberus

      Cool story bro.

  • Shawn Hargrave

    watched the cut scene endings of this pretty anticlimatic to say the least. Still find it hilarious how this gravestone can take out entire fleets lol so much for the eternal balsa wood fleet. Overall what meh story. What i would have given if tor had a decent space game like swg did and you got to fly those ships and stuff instead it just cutscenes lol. Well onto the knights of the eternal cartel market. I do like valyn though she seems more badass then arcann ever was

  • Acher4

    Wow, ok I have to say! That was a really epic and cathartic finale!
    All the important companions played their roles and I felt how some of my choices during the whole run actually mattered.
    A true great ending to the first year. Bioware win.
    On to the second year.
    Can’t wait to see what will happen with the new status quo. 😀

    • MKDAWUSS
      • The Watchmen

        Dont have to be an asshole just because he liked the finale.

        • Guest

          Yes he does. If he’s not an asshole then he’s not cool. It’s only cool if you come here and bash the game and people that enjoy it.

          • Rint

            Go back to Hello Kitty Online you fucking hippy.

            • Paulo Gomes

              I think he was being sarcastic, a stylistic approach often misunderstood in these Internet conversations…

            • The Watchmen

              So many people reference Hello Kitty Online when they get pissy in SWTOR. So funny everytime

    • Fred Garvin

      Clap hard…it makes the singing good…

  • The last chapter moves the story forward and leaves plenty of options for the next season, hopefully seasons.

    Going forward though BW needs to add in more group content or open areas for dailies like they did on Yavin after Revan.

    Looking forward to what comes next.

    • Sarigar

      There absolutely should have been a series of dailies, and a weekly completion mission, set on Odessen: gathering local resources, training troops, culling predators, setting up travel beacons, etc.

      • Other than being in the Odessan base and the couple areas on Zakuul there was little connection to the worlds or people.

        We aren’t leaving this sector in Season Two so maybe we will see some more areas to explore outside those in the cut scenes.

      • Guest

        They could even use the existing map from the chapter when we were hanging with Satele and Ghost Marr.

    • Johnny

      I’m still trying to figure out what choices matter, seems on different toons of mine it flows the same. Oh wait, choices aren’t on the cartel market so they don’t really mean anything.

      • me

        but wait you get the choice of hideously designed armor suit 1 or hideously designed armor suit #2

  • Djangus Roundstone

    And to think I was THIS close to forgiving Koth, oh well, somebody’s gotta die

    • Guest

      Too bad it will never be him. He is essentially a “good guy”. He’s just doing what is best for his people. BW doesn’t have the balls to let you kill him.

      • Amodin

        I will still wait for the day I can shove my lightsaber right into his mouth and bury it up to the hilt.

        Fk that guy.

        • Andhros

          Will the lightsaber be activated? Cause right now I can’t tell if you desire a “relationship” with Koth or to cause him harm.

          • me

            both, obviously.

        • Djangus Roundstone

          If I had a choice, I wouldn’t even use my lightsaber or the force, I would pummel him to death, but that might be a bit too much for this game

  • So, I don’t know if they told or what… there are companions that havent returned, we have to use the terminal or they will come back at s2?

    • Nomad

      yes, terminal brings them back, except for darth marr or that psychopathic white furry thing if you killed it

      • I know the terminal brings them back, but we have to do it? I mean, I want to have my old comps again, but if they come back at s2 through history, I’m going to wait.

  • me

    They needed the extra 4 weeks or whatever for this?
    Getting alliance specialists to 20 means nothing??
    hey at least i got the great new cartel market “experiencing!”
    BLAH

    • Guest

      The specialists are for the solo star fortress. They never said it would effect the outcome of this season.

  • Yanni

    During the choice to leave someone behind, everyone minus Torian disapproves. I’m on a trooper.

  • Darth-Robin

    you know there is 1 thing i hate more then a crappy ending and thats sequal baiting
    now i dont mind if the ending is done right with a good game
    but here with a garbage ending with no anwsers and closure no just no

  • Johnny

    Interestingly you still get influence with Senya and Scorpio at the end of the chapter. At least they haven’t learned to clean stuff and and make it look like they are really gone.

  • me

    Im pissed I dont get to kill granny senya and loser koth. They are up there with James Vega as the most poorly written, useless, annoying characters ever to come out of Bioware.

    • me

      imagine how happy we would be and singing Bioware’s praises if they let us in horrible fashion kill these two turds.

      • Darth-Robin

        but but then choices really do matter if we are allowed that!!!!!!!!

    • Sv3

      Senya I can handle but Koth…if he’s within arm reach, I’d punch him in the face — or right out force choke him or fry his innards with my light saber.

  • me

    GRRR and why cant we still customize the look of the main cast. Its bad enough they all basically suck but we have to bear looking at their suck too.
    Get back to work on that cartel market where the real work is needed!

    • Gguy

      hard to please much?
      sure,costumes would be nice (like lana’s old green robe)…but saying they “suck” is just an overreaction

      • Rompe Himself

        No Gguy, it is not an overreaction. it is his/her opinion and he/she is entitled to it. And yet again you have proven unable to accept any opinion if it doesn’t match your undying love for SWTOR/KOTFE and it’s perfection in your eyes.

        • slimj091

          As opposed to living every day in a world of hate for a game?

          • Rompe Himself

            *Shrug* I have feelings of lament and sadness for how swtor fell apart post 4.0. I don’t hate the game. I am disappointed Bw/Ea are driving this once great game into the ground just to milk it’s base.

        • Guest

          Look in the mirror. That is Gguy’s opinion. You bitch at him for giving his opinion when you are giving an opinion.

          • Rompe Himself

            Lol nice swing and a miss there sport. I don’t agree with Gguys opinion because of how tunnel visioned Gguy is in said opinion (you disagree with him = you’re wrong) but never did I say he couldn’t have said opinion. I am open to debate. He is not.

  • Gguy

    i enjoyed this ALOT,while i figured out that last battle myself (first try),i did love the cuts and the fights!

    • Fred Garvin

      You are the best…high five!

      • The Watchmen

        Really…

      • Darth Ji’inx

        Go away, Borat!! *eyes bleed*

        • Fred Garvin

          I know how you mean! My eyes have same responses to the SWTORs.

  • Allysa

    It says Vette approves but when I tried to leave vette behind to stay with Kaliyo, she complained & disapproved on my fem sith warrior. Had to end up leaving Torian instead.

    • Ran Sherman

      the approval varried between if kaliyo and jorgan were both togather or just one of them. gualt only approves if kaliyo is there but disapproves for both, not sure his opinion if jorgan only is there.

      • Allysa

        Au! I was wondering what made the differences. Thanks!

  • The Watchmen

    Played it. Finish Champion and Eturnal DvL levels after it dropped. Not touching Legendary level (Did the reqs months if not years ago depending on the character, no ty for a shitty turret mount and 30 more shitty packs).

    Game bugged out when I hit the [Kill Arcann] option. I was teleported to Fleet and died. It was like the game said “No, you can’t really kill off our only plot device!” Had to reload to be able to continue. I watch the Light video above before, so I got to spacebar thru the convos.

    Now my DvL Sentinel cant unlock the Guss mission.. hrmmm working on it currently

  • Michael

    Hardest part of this fight entails putting your shield up an toggling auto run. Thanx biofail

    • Att

      Dont forget auto attack

      • Michael

        i did. still face rolled

    • Rompe Himself

      The scary thing is there are scrubs who posted in the forums and Gguy here on Dulfy, about how they had trouble fighting Arcaan and called it an epic fight. Now that is just pitiful. KOTFE has the absolute worst trash/boss mechanics in swtor by far

  • Kirito

    Yeah listen, go fuck yourself BW

  • end

    looking forward to their next announcement on content drought/year without operations.

  • Rob

    It’s gonna be funny when they deem KOTFE a massive success based on their feedback during the producer stream on Thursday. A simple scroll down this page will tell them otherwise :/

    I guess success for them really is that the game is still alive and profitable despite the shambles of a story they concocted and the outrageous lack of group content they’ve delivered.

    I wonder how they’ll advertise KOTET? ‘This time your choices will really matter, honest’ and ‘We can guarantee deep level of emotional involvement’. Well the current emotion is anger, so i guess they kind of delivered 🙁

    • Kaelin

      You do know that your choices do matter, may be not as much as you want… But they matter as much as they can in mmo

      • Rob

        How so? I chose to kill Arcann, flying debris again saves him. I chose to kill Senya and Arcann yet they get away. Can’t think of one choice I made that affected the story in any way and I’ve ran throught both LS and DS characters. Even the saber and pistol I made during the Valkorian chapter didn’t matter.

        Obviously Senya and Arcann will feature heavily on KOTET, so killing them off is impossible, but my DS Sith didnt have the option of killing anyone, we could’ve left Gault/Vette/Torian behind but not even that is an option.

        • Kaelin

          The major decision is with Koth. Your decisions can make him leave —> you will lose Gravestone or he will stay. You can have Valkorion take over you even if you refuse him. You have a bunch of not all that important but decisions with some results. Even “to bow or not to bow” have it’s impact even now, nothing major, but I have a feeling it will matter more in new expansion. Not that someone like you noticed anything since all of it do not affect story at all for you.
          And don’t forget, the game will not end after that story is finished. They will have to work with it in new stories/expansions. Earlier on someone told me they could have made our major decision have more meaning in story instances, all I can tell is that’s there your decisions will not matter at all since they will affect nothing in new expansions- you will have your major decision with amazing results and it will matter only in that moment.

          • ladyvader

            Koth leaving proves choice doesn’t matter. My gunslinger was all cool with him until chapter 10 and she let Kaylio do her thing and Koth left saying he’s fed up with what’s going on.

            Being he was happy with my gunslinger, there’s nothing to be fed up with. It was a one time thing and even saying you’re sorry has no affect on the outcome.

            Chapter 10 proves choice doesn’t matter.

            Koth taking the Graystone if he did leave in the grand scheme of the story won’t matter either.

        • Kaelin

          You can kill Jorgan or Kaliyo, but I bet it do not matter to you, since your DS character can’t kill anyone AT ALL

          • Rob

            hardly seems fair, I ran LS as well. I just meant that nothing I actually decided to do had any impact on the story. The result is the same regardless of Light or Dark. Koth is really pissed off that I didn’t kill Arcann on my LS, so he’ll likely fuck off with the Gravestone anyway now. So the result is the same.

            Plus please don’t not refer to me ‘as someone like you’ like I’ve insulted you somehow. I merely asked you to deliver me an example of how any decision we made had any impact at all.

            • Kaelin

              Just to let you know, I’m not trying to force you to love that story all I wanted is for you to be reasonable.
              You deserve no batter since you refuse to be reasonable.

              • Rob

                refuse to be reasonable, I’ve asked you to give me examples of how we affected the story. Please list them so I can be proved wrong, I actually want to like the story, why would I play otherwise?

      • Rompe Himself

        Not only do choices not matter one iota but even gaining reputation with your alliance departments and plethora of companions (both lore and non-lore) has zero meaning to kotfe.

        • Kaelin

          I don’t feel like repeating myself, you can read my reply to another whiner

          • Rob

            Wow, you realise that by insulting people it largely means your argument is redundant as you cannot argue your case. For the record I was whining, but not at you, mostly against BW because we were promised meaningful choices that would affect the story. This has not been delivered.

            I’m glad you liked the story, it must feel good to be a content and happy gamer. I long for those days

            • Kaelin

              You will refuse to be reasonable no matter how valid my point can be so I don’t see the point of playing nice

              • Rob

                Why would I be asking you to tell me where these magical decisions that affect the game are if I wasn’t being reasonable. Please tell me where these magical story making decisions are, I actually wanna know so I can play through again and feel content.

              • Kaelin

                Are you for real? Or you are choosing to ignore my to the point answers? “The major decision is with Koth. Your decisions can make him leave —> you will lose Gravestone or he will stay. You can have Valkorion take over you even if you refuse him. You have a bunch of not all that important but decisions with some results. Even “to bow or not to bow” have it’s impact even now, nothing major, but I have a feeling it will matter more in new expansion. Not that someone like you noticed anything since all of it do not affect story at all for you.
                And don’t forget, the game will not end after that story is finished. They will have to work with it in new stories/expansions. Earlier on someone told me they could have made our major decision have more meaning in story instances, all I can tell is that’s there your decisions will not matter at all since they will affect nothing in new expansions- you will have your major decision with amazing results and it will matter only in that moment.”

              • Rob

                Are you for real? You realise that Koth will disappear as on LS as you let Arcann and Senya go. So we’ll all start KOTET without the Gravestone. I’m sorry but paving an impact for future expansions isn’t good enough for me, I pay my money every month like you, and I want Bioware to deliver on what they advertise. This was that our decisions would be meaningful and have an impact on the story. Nothing i did made the slightest difference to the story outcome. Therefore the product wasn’t delivered as promised.

                Your argument is that these decisions may have some impact on the future expansions, I hope they do, but you cannot be certain.

                It seems we will not agree, I do not think I’m being unreasonable in wanting my decisions to impact the story more. We should’ve been allowed to kill/save Arcann, this has been the whole point of the expansion. To see him fly into space after i chose to shoot his ship was a big kick in the teeth, I figured he’d have to die or be taken prisoner, depending on DS/LS.

              • Kaelin

                I’m yet to play last chapter as a LS character and !can be wrong here!, but all I see for now- he is just walking away dissapointed. Agree with Arcann and traitors situation. I’ve made a comment about it earlier, not sure that happened with it. You were telling it like our decisions do not matter at all- I disagree only with that part. Everything else is all about people with different preferences and tastes, someone loves that story, someone hates it with passion. It’s just irks me off then people whining about “choices that do NOT matter AT ALL” in every SWTOR theme then we all understand that they DO matter just NOT as much as some people wants it.

              • Rob

                All I want is what was promised when they announced the launch. I feel let down on this respect as I do not feel that LS or DS choices made any difference. Sorry if spoiled the story for you btw, i assumed you’d ran it both ways.

                I don’t want to whine, I genuinely want to like the story, I just feel like it’s been 16 chapters of let down personally and my frustration has gotten the better of me. I’ll still be likely be playing KOTET though and hope for some juicy decisions to make regarding my Alliance 🙂

                Been nice sharing opinions with you Kaelin. All the best.

              • Kaelin

                I was watching videos after I was done with my main toon. I’m not sure I will play my light toon anytime soon, don’t like that one much. So, he just walks away or he is stealing your ship anyway? Was his position in companions list changed even for a pure light toon?

              • Rompe Himself

                You were happy to bang on about how choices matter remember? Why don’t you play your LS toon and see how very little changes between LS or DS.

                Having done both, I can tell you now you will finally understand what we have all been saying with how choices do not matter. You will get the same outcome no matter what.

              • klassal035

                I think whether choices matter or not is largely down to your point of view – some may not matter to your character directly but will have a larger effect on the environment around you, the Chapter 10 choice for instance. It’s also about how much you become emotionally attached to the story: should you make several choices IRL that piss a friend off then you’re likely to lose a friend – how attached to this friend you are will be the deciding factor of whether you care about what you’ve done and the outcome or not. While Koth’s leaving was a little sudden imo, it’s still an effect of a choice you made.

                I will, however, agree that the finalé being no different based on choices was a bit shallow imo. Despite that though, while you’re the Outlander, your choices shouldn’t be able to change galactic events too much considering that a general canon story should be kept to.

                Overall, I think that both your points have merits, but I think that whether or not “choice is an illusion” is based upon what you went into the Chapter looking for. If you looked for a massive game-changing choice that changed the outcome of the Chapter then you went to the wrong place, yet if you were expecting changes on how you got there and an emotionally indulging experience then you’d be more inclined to say that there were choices that matter.

                Just my opinion ^^

              • ladyvader

                Koth leaving is only a chapter 10 choice. It’s the only choice in the game that matter when there are a bunch of them per chapter?

                Koth can be happy with the Outlander, be romancing the Outlander and still leave because he’s fed up.

                Fed up with what? One bad thing happens and Koth leave. Which proves my choices in 1-9 don’t matter because he still leaves.

              • Kaelin

                Wow, another one 🙂 Keep believing in all you wrote here, it’s not like you will change your opinion no matter how reasonable your opponent will be

          • Rompe Himself

            Yup I saw your reply and most of it is based on the assumption the choices matter in the future in KOTET which is funny because after chapter 10, that’s what all the KOTFE fanboi’s were saying about how they were so sure that choices matter in the remaining 6 chapters and yet here we are.

            Just to name some so called “critical” moments that changed nothing: *SPOILERS AHEAD*

            * It didn’t matter if you let Valkorian give you his power or not. The ending to chapter 16 was the same. The moments you could use his powers to save lana or win a fight could be done without using it just as easy. And Lana and Senya both seemingly forget or get over the fact you have accepted his gift if you did.

            * You could be nice to that whiney fuck Koth and even romance him but if you side with Kaliyo in just that one choice, bam, he is now “fed” up and leaves. And some have claimed he steals the gravestone even if he is still in your team.

            * You have zero choice in rejecting people to join your group. I didn’t want Kaliyo nor Jorgan but one or the other is forced on you.

            * Your point of bowing or not holds no valid difference other then how Valkorian bites it. You still cannot side with Arcann or Valkorian regardless if you bow.

            * Sparing the knight in the early chapter (2 from memory) makes no difference as his partner still swears revenge.

            * Scorpio still betrays you no matter what.

            And what about recruiting the Alliance specialists and all the other paper cut out companions? Recruit none or all of them, it makes no difference. Same goes for Star Fortress. Destroy none, one or all, the outcome is still the same.

            So many other examples I could point out but it boils down to this. KOTFE is very much like the vanilla space missions in swtor. Sure you can swerve to the left, right, up or down but you will still go in the direction Bioware wants no matter what you do and why? Because choices don’t matter. I challenge you to find a single choice that changes the ending of KOTFE. You will fail and all you will be left with is misguided hope and faith that what you did these past 16 chapters that have no meaning in KOTFE will mean something in KOTET.

            I could agree with your opinion that choices do matter but the facts prove otherwise and besides, if I did that, we would both be wrong. 🙂

            • Kaelin

              “some have claimed he steals the gravestone even if he is still in your team” but other people telling a different story, is it not proving my point? As I told before, choices do matter, just not that much as some people want them to matter, only a retarded whiner refuse to see that. And I gave all the possible reasons why choices can’t matter too much

              • Rompe Himself

                Like I said Kaelin, show me one choice that changes the outcome whether LS or DS, anything really that impacts how Chapter 16 ends. THAT is why choices do not matter. It is nothing to do with it being a choice that matters a lot or not. It is the fact that despite what you do across 16 chapters, the ending is just the same no matter what. It really is not that hard of a concept to understand.

              • Kaelin

                I feel like I’m talking with the wall…

              • Rompe Himself

                On that we can agree. The rest of us who disagree with you and have facts to back us up on how choices DON’T matter feel the same way towards you!!

                Let’s just agree to disagree, accept you cannot provide one choice that affects the ending of chapter 16 (because there is none) despite you claiming Choices do matter and let the facts speak for itself!! 😀

              • Kaelin

                KOTH!! Koth…. –>Koth<– "some have claimed he steals the gravestone even if he is still in your team" <— but people who actually payed attention telling he just walks away dissapointed, it's not "=" steals the ship, like he doing if he betrayed you before. He maybe will steal that ship later in new expansion, but for now he just walks away. It's just talking about 16th chapter.

                Really…

                I'm not sure I told you this, I'm not all that happy about last chapter but for a different reasons

      • Andhros

        I disagree with this sentiment. I normally don’t join the crowd that criticizes the “choices matter” rhetoric since they use hyperbole and outrageous examples, but all we can really say right now is that a few choices have an effect, some have no noticeable effect, and there are a lot of dangling plot threads that may have an effect.

        Technically all choices matter as they help define your character and his place in the universe. I don’t believe that every choice offered should have a noticeable or radiating effect, but more choices should have minor effects that can be noticed and commented on in game.

        Most gamers, single and mmo, are aware of the limitations of the medium and expect and accept the fact that many places in the story will be virtually indistinguishable regardless of past choices, but each instance will have minor variations to signify your choices. This is what KotFE seems to lack. BW created few, but drastic differences rather than a thousand minor variations to tell our story. They also took as much as 12 chapters to payoff which would be over a year if they continue this model.

        • Kaelin

          Well, I understand your opinion and agree with some of it. You don’t seems like an unreasonable person. I’m not telling their work is all that good, that story can be done way better, even choices can matter a little bit more. But then people telling that choices do NOT matter AT ALL, refusing to accept examples or completely ignore them like retards, it’s just irks me off.

    • Darth Ji’inx

      Perhaps the people that complain are the minority, but they are the most vocal about their opinion.

      • Rob

        perhaps Bioware has a complaints and criticisms filter. That would explain a lot 😛

      • Patrick Bateman

        I don’t think that’s the case at all. Looking at the feedback for the Dark vs. Light event when it was announced it was overwhelmingly negative, and their response was to put fingers in their ears and do this;
        https://youtu.be/Aflyz9IFoZE?t=15s
        Fact is they just don’t care about criticism. It most certainly isn’t about not listening to the vocal minority because they do it almost every single balance patch. They just do what they want to do, playerbase be damned. It really is a contemptuous way to run an MMO to be quite honest.

        • Rob

          The loyalty the playerbase shows allows them to run the game as they see fit. I still sub despite my grievances so I’m part of the problem. I let them have my monthly fee no matter what they do.

          It’s sad I know but I long to see this game back to where it once was, but if we’re being honest this game is no longer an MMO, single player game with group content optional is probably the best way to describe it.

          • ladyvader

            And that’s not worth $15 per month.

            I let my sub go in April but I have been keeping track on what’s going on via this website and after reading the comments to chapter 16 and comments on the game’s forums, I doubt I come back any time soon. Especially if the next expansion is monthly like 4.0.

            I’m a solo player, but the game is a hot mess and I hate the personal instances. Because it kills grouping with people to do quests. Constantly being dropped into the same instance on Odessen after each chapter shows the mechanic for the solo instance is broken.

        • Darth Ji’inx

          If someone likes KotFE, they might tell a friend or two that it was good. If they hated it, they will probably go on a forum and complain about it. As this builds up, it will seem like a majority of the people hate it because they are the ones doing most of the posting. This would mean that the number of those who like KotFE is a dark figure (statistic where a significant number of cases aren’t reported).

          • Andhros

            The entire field is difficult to tell. There are also people who had things they disliked about it, but do not wish to be associated with the #makeswtorgreatagain crowd so remain quiet. Others might enjoy or tolerate it, but fear being attacked by the same.

            Posts are useless statistically speaking as they don’t provide a sample size that is significant or random(studies show that the same type of people usually post even when they are on opposite sides of an argument).

            • Darth Ji’inx

              Well said 🙂

      • Rompe Himself

        Considering the large sub base drop since 4.0 was released, I doubt those who despise kotfe are the minority.

        • Darth Ji’inx

          Source?

          • Paulo Gomes

            Read my comment above.

            • Darth Ji’inx

              Seems reasonable, yet people keep saying that they’ve lost X number of subs since 4.0. The repetition almost makes it sound like fact.

              • Paulo Gomes

                Maybe they have, maybe not. I remember people saying that Ops were a dead end, since only 2% of the game’s population did those. Now they say the majority of the player base wants Ops… The whole 2%? Or the others that wanted more Single Player story? Hey, I want more Ops, I’m cool there! But the numbers don’t add up…

                I am always sceptic of numbers I see on the Internet. Either it’s an official source or I just file it under gossip or wishful thinking…

              • Darth Ji’inx

                Back when ops came out frequently, maybe only 2% did them. More people could have tried them since then due to level scaling/bolstering. This would mean that more than 2% do them now. Maybe?

              • Paulo Gomes

                Yeah, like I stated above, no one knows the real numbers except BW/EA. But from personal experience I would say that yes, we are a minority, but we’re not 2%.

                Maybe… 😉

              • Andhros

                I don’t remember hearing that a majority want ops. What I read was “we know what everyone is asking for…” The whole interview sounded more like they were attempting to juggle the requests of the various segments of the population. Hopefully No one is asking for more story content(although I have seen many comments for “better” content) since they are actively releasing it. This would drive up the percentage of requests that are devoted to Ops since the story people should be mollified for a while.

        • Paulo Gomes

          The fact is that no one knows exactly if subs are up or down. EA do not release those numbers: the best we get is them lumping all their Online gaming activity together in their annual report and vague references about how well the game is doing. Considering that TOR is not the only online game they have, and that other games in their roster feature different platforms there is no way to know if subs are dropping.

          I believe they are dropping, but I have no way of corroborating that. And no one else does either.

      • ladyvader

        If the complainers are the minority, why is BW closing BioWare Social Network forums in October. They’ll be read only at the end of August and completely gone in October.

        The only forum BW is keeping open is the forum for SW:TOR. How long do you think that will last?

        • Darth Ji’inx

          We’re talking about SWTOR, which is still going. Most of the other games are already done, meaning their forums aren’t that necessary.

    • Michael

      “To quote user Whiteknight. “Best chapter yet!” An we have to agree!”

      • Rob

        lol

  • FacelessOne

    The funny thing is, i got yesterday a mail from the support that i recieved an infraktation worth 5 points. I a thread about Chapter 16 i was saying that the chapter 16 was bad and full of thrid wave feminism/SJW Bu**crap. I also was saying some negative comments about DA:I and ME3.

    I wasn’t rude or attacket anyone, just showed the facts.
    Bioware… Thoughtpolice much? You proofed me right!

    • Rompe Himself

      Then a lot of swtor forum posters would have been hit as I have seen quite a few people comparing the shit story writing in kotfe to DA2/ME3/DA:I.

      • FacelessOne

        Maybe, all my comments on that Topic had been deleted… Especially my listing that ALL known great player are ruled by females – Imp by Empress Acina, PUB by “Shadowdictator” Sareesh, the Mandalorians by Shae Vizla and Zakuul now by Vaylin and Scorpio.

        Also that the Companions with the most screentime are ALL either female or metrosexuall Manginas like Koth…

        Coincidence?

        • EyesOfGehenna .

          Are you the one who used the term “feminazi”?

          • FacelessOne

            Jep, I’am. BUUUUT… That’s not harrasment or #hatespeach or some other imagined microaggression just because these loonys branded it as such.

            Quote:

            Feminazi is a term used pejoratively to describe either feminists who are perceived as extreme or radical, women who are perceived as seeking superiority over men, rather than equality, or in some cases, to describe all feminists.
            The earliest known use of the word dates from 1989 and it was popularized by politically conservative radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh in the early 1990s. It is a portmanteau of the nouns feminist and Nazi. The online version of the Merriam-Webster dictionary defines the term as used in a “usually disparaging” manner, to describe “an extreme or militant feminist”.

            NOTHING wrong with that. If some special snowflake has a problem with that…well GOTCHA biatch.

            • Guest

              Oh wow, how old are you? You sound like a dumbfuck kid

              • FacelessOne

                Uhh posting first grade “insults” behind a “guest”…

                I’am scared…

              • Don Loco

                Nope, just another Rump supporter it seems.

            • Kobie

              Oh, so you’re just an asshole who thinks every female in a position of non-subservience is a threat to his penis. Good to know.

        • Feminazi stole my icecream

          Sooooo … you certainly would complain too, if all the “great players” were ruled by males?
          Asking for a friend. 😀

          • Guest

            You know he wouldn’t. Poor whiny baby.

    • Michael

      I got 5 points for posting a screenshot of the interaction i had with customer support. And Taint bans me from every stream 🙁

      • FacelessOne

        The streams are just a one hour parade of self asskissing by the dev’s and the socalled “community” manager Eric Nutjob…

        • Shawn Hargrave

          the streams are for the fanbois/carebears nothing more buy now hk toilet seat for your stronghold!

    • Dread Master Ozariah

      I don’t really understand why you point to feminism here… i mean, it is nothing wrong all the major roles in the both Empires and Republic now under female’s fits. We are not living in the world, where Men are gods and women are slaves. We all have quite the same rights.

    • Michael

      And since the last time i commented here i received another warning. You can’t say “butt kissing” cause its inflammatory. “I wonder why the butt kissing post only has 2 pages” received a warning. Bioware is pathetic

  • EyesOfGehenna .

    So, all the nonsense about female npc’s aside…what about forging that special weapon that gives you extra powers against Arcann and not having to use it in the fight with him?

    • Rob

      brilliant waste of a chapter lol

    • Ran Sherman

      well i’m glad you don’t have to use it, it’s rather ugly, mine was cooler 😛 besides you don’t need the extra power to win that easy fight anyway 😀

      • EyesOfGehenna .

        Yeah but as Rob mentioned it completely nullifies that whole chapter where you got it. I also find it funny that a certain droid first tells my character that it’s like the throne fits her well and then casually hands it over to someone else at the end of the chapter. And I wonder if it makes a difference for what happens with Koth whether he left you before or not.

        • Ran Sherman

          chapter 12 was pretty much waste of chapter anyway, the key to defeat arcann is a weapon? yeah.. no 😛

          and koth? nah he’s just gonna show up with the gravestone when it convenient 😛

          • Chapter 12 would’ve made perfect sense if they had given you the shield back there as a quest item, instead of just picking it up off the ground randomly.

            • FlyXan

              Or just make the battle vs Arcann insanely difficult (or downright impossible) without the weapon.
              I wielded the weapon with my shadow and sage as well (not really used the buffs though) and I didn’t have to worry for a second about the outcome of the battle.

  • Havik79

    I have loved this game since I got it Xmas 2012 and been subbed the whole time, put up with the 3.0 disaster and the 2 months it took them to fix the ability lag, like the LvD event, makes sense to only be new toons or I would have had everything and did nothing, but damn after chapter 16 I really find it hard to see why I keep up my sub, if not for the credit cap I doubt I would.
    That was so disappointing and unsatisfying, other than I was right (SPOILERS).

    Knew you would kill Arcann then his sister would be the main villain next season.
    All that for no revenge at all, and now to do the exact same thing in season 2.
    http://www.boiledbeans.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/89cf8bc71014f0ed285d30c2b9e7925b.jpg

    • Rompe Himself

      Except Arcaan doesn’t die no matter how you play it. It will be a farce well within Bioware’s current writing level if Arcaan becomes an ally in KOTET after all the shit in KOTFE.

      • Havik79

        I just meant as in he won’t be the man bad guy.
        LOL, you mean the writing that promised consequences that mattered but didn’t, and promise of revenge and we got none.

        • Don Loco

          In a nutshell this is what has so many people pissed. They advertised a huge showdown, weak. They promised our choices would matter….when? For everything they tried to sell this on they dropped the ball in a big way. I suspect the happiest people with the game are the devs and the numbskulls they call the community rep team.

  • Xandryah

    yeah, i suppose, i agree with most of you on this last chapter and on this 6-months-business…

    the chapters have rather been isolated stories of their own actually, don’t you agree? the whole thing was not a story with act 1 to act 3 with a real climax…

    you don’t get to kill anyone… Scorpio lives, Vaylin lives, Arcann lives, Senya lives…. you lose the gravestone and are left behind with a bunch of threats and promises that probably won’t fulfill in the next 6 months with the “act 2” of this Eternal Throne-story.. If you play an evil character, which I believe lots of us do (too), you really are left behind as a complete failure.

    ALSO: what about Jaesa, Nadja, Mako, Ensign and other companions that I personally liked and waited for?

    Frankly, the best stories and convos are the ones that come with the original game…

    • I agree . I rly dissapointed because many stories isnt ended. This chapter was so much low. New system of opening packs is awsome. Hope they will show next expansion on gamescom 🙁

    • Kaelin

      Agree, it do not feel like a major victory outside of the fact that Valkorion sad that Outlander is ready (not sure why but I like that character) and like The Epic Final. Liked the fight with Arcann and his puppy dog eyes in the end. Absolutely hate the fact that ALL the traitors are yet to suffer and that we all see the possible traitors but not doing anything to them while we still can.

      Anyway, is Koth stealing the ship even if he is still in Outlanders team?

      • FlyXan

        Not yet but based on his reaction, when I refused to shoot at Senya’s shuttle, I guess he will…

        • Kaelin

          So as of right now peoples whining about it is unreasonable… I guess I should not be surprised

          • FlyXan

            True but given the importance of the Gravestone in the story, BW surely will do something about it. Either Koth will eventually steal the ship no matter you made LS decisions or DS will have the chance to get it back somehow (preferably killing Koth in the process). They won’t make two different storylines that’s clear.

            • Kaelin

              Uhhh, I hate Koth. I want to get my hands on him. But I kinda worry about him and his motives. I hope I’m wrong but I think he have some serious backup (outside obvious traitors in the alliance), I hope it’s not Valkorion. He (being traitor) knew where to find us, got here just in time and was able to overpower my team in few minutes without getting any resistance it seems.

    • FlyXan

      The LS ending is unsatisfactory as well. OK, I let Senya and Arcann go, I’ve never been an ahole to Koth or anyone slightly important in the story, etc., but Arcann should be dead anyway (oh, the comfortable falling debris solution, how much I love to see it for the hundredth time) and WTH with the good old force sensitive comps? My shadow married Nadia and after Chapter I he got a letter from her that she sensed his presence and was gathering the old allies to find him. So, after 16 chapters, during which he caused quite a stir in the balance of power she never comes looking? But let’s just accept for a second that she’s unaware of the events (unlikely but let’s assume it), I recruit Yuun, who’s a findsman, why wasn’t he tasked with finding my old crew, starting with the woman my character loved? He has absolutely no role in the story, he could have been tasked with this one job. Just another missed opportunity from BW among many others.
      Meh…

  • ST

    Has anyone tried the combination of
    1) being nice to koth throughout kotfe and him staying, plus
    2) trying to shoot down arcann and senya in the end?
    How does he react in that case? He shouldn’t have any reason to pout in that case or be angry w/ the outlander.

    • Harold

      He is okay with it. Theron is angry at you for shooting at them but Koth said that it was the right decision. You are blamed nonetheless. You always end up with one of the major characters being angry at you.

  • TGY

    I am an ancient mmorpg gameplayer, having progressed through Everquest (the first), Dark Age of Camelot, Earth and Beyond, Star Wars: Galaxies, World of Warcraft (where I declared I would bury my virtual bones and level no more forever) and now this SWTOR thing (and Lord of the Rings). Having this tortured path lets me see how easy games have become for non-raiding people. Hell, back in my day we had to drag our corpse while running naked through mobs up AND down hills… through the snow! (EQ). And now it’s ‘would you like a bit more experience with your experience?’. ‘Oh, you died? Tragic. Let us res you in place.’

    This is why BW *must* make choice an illusion: so players who manage to mess up through choices don’t experience any real pain. Such a change from Everquest’s ‘we know you like to be killed and lose your gear/experience/level’. Yes, in the original Everquest, you could de-level yourself through dying.

    I’m not saying this is bad, necessarily. There’s enough frustration and angst in life without suffering in one’s hobby.

    Oh, and if you write a linear plot, with non-consequential ‘excursions’ from the main plotpoints, it’s much cheaper than having to do all the plot line evolution that would otherwise follow. Especially if you do massive voice acting as SWTOR does.

    But you can at least be up-front about it.

    • AdjeYo

      It’s a bit of stretch to say things like: “..a dynamic story that players will be able to shape based on the choices they make.”, about a such a story though. There’s only really one choice that actually impacts part of the story. And that is spoiler alert (duh) the part were Koth steals the Gravestone if you’ve been mean to him/

  • Anthony-Skyrim

    *****What would have made this so-called FINALE Epic?*****

    1-The Scions joining out of nowhere, and bringing a hell of a space battle with them… (As it was foreseen at the beginning of KOTFE)
    2-The allies/factions you decide to save in the escape pods in Chapter 15, Join the fight as well… Mass effect 3 final showdown style!
    3-Your choices assigning Vette, Torian, and Gault to their tasks, have a possibility to lead to their deaths, or any other form of impact… (Correct me if am wrong about this)
    4-When Arcann and Senya are in firing range, shooting them should kill them, or kill at least one of them to give the choice an impact…
    5-A battle on Odessen! Scenes of battle on the planet of odessen, as the Eternal troops try to take out the planetary shield, your allies and everyone you recruited get a chance to show their skills, to fight and defend the base! Not just looking at fireworks in space…
    6-I got two force powers when I wielded the weapon I forged with master Shan and Marr on Odessen during dueling Arcann, but the question I ask, do these powers change depending on your choice? or do you get the “Increase speed” and “Damage reduction” abilities no matter what you choose and even if you do not wield the weapon itself during the fight?

    • FlyXan

      The weapon’s powers are based on your choices in Chapter 12. See details in the walkthrough of that chapter.
      Wielding the weapon doesn’t make much difference though.

      Totally agree with you on the rest. Except for point 5 as Arcann’s forces never landed on Odessen, he planned to level the Outlander’s base from orbit (tbh I doubt that any planetary shield in SWTOR could absorb the firepower of the Eternal Fleet, not for long anyway).

  • VicV

    I felt so disappointed. When I came back to swtor in spring (after run from it in 2012) it was great. So much became better. And KOTFE story was looking as something cool and fresh. And everything was to get a great story ending in it…
    And there’s no great ending. And no ending at all. Did something really change in the Galaxy after chapter 16? It’s not even look like a tv-series’ final episode of the season. KOTET is coming soon, and.. And good buy, game. That was nice comeback, but I’ll uninstall it again.

  • guest

    Arcann is WAY too stronk…

    • It’s boring now

      Arcann was way too EASY!

      Here is what was supposed to be the baddest villain in the galaxy and the fight was over in less than 2 minutes? Way to go Bioware!

      Also confirmed you don’t need the weapon that we thought we would need to beat him. AND also confirmed by a friend of mine last night that you don’t even need ANY gear. He went preferred during the time in between the delay but still had access to the chapter. Unfortunately his gear was in his bank and he couldn’t wear it because he didn’t have Artifact Authorization so he tried it NAKED. Of course he had his MH and OH but other than that he was basically fighting in his underwear. A fight we’ve been waiting a YEAR to complete is this easy? Fuck off Bioware!

      • Guest

        I call shenanigans on this “friend” fighting naked. Why would you put your gear in your cargo hold? Even if you are goofing around doing other things naked why would you put it in your hold?

        • It’s boring now

          It’s Legacy gear he swaps between toons. A lot of us do that. Why grind out multiple sets of gear if you only need one? And if you don’y believe the naked run, try it yourself. I didn’t believe it either at first but just did it myself on my 3rd toon thru the chapter. Too easy. Put the “god mode” shield up that they give you and get close enough to use the shield bash or whatever it is and BOOM! Fight is over in 3 hits.

    • Whitedragon

      stronk?

      • Fred Garvin

        He doesn’t shower much. STRONg + stinK = STRONK. He needs to pick up some Old Kessel Spice deodorant.

        • Whitedragon

          the 12 parsecs kind….

    • Shawn Hargrave

      just have your droid companion tank him worked well the first time arcann is quite stupid that way

      • Risqu’e

        You cant. you have to face him alone.

  • d8

    What was the point of the special Odessen weapon. I didn’t use it, and beating Arcann wasn’t a problem at all.

    • Лев Сафаров

      Yea, i tried with and without it. Seems for very undergeared or not skill players to give them advantage.

    • Disqus this

      Kinda made that whole chapter to get that thing stupid and pointless. I did the same thing and had no problem beating him. After all that, it came down to something you just find laying on the ground.

  • Vix

    I dunno why people are so surprised that our choices made no difference whatsoever.

    Heskal said it a bunch of times in the fight with him.

    “Choice is an illusion.” BW told us right there that it really didn’t matter

  • thomas

    Severely let down by this chapter…yet again bioware sticking there fingers up at loyal star wars fans

    • Sledge

      I agree with you, I’m thinking the only reason you don’t kill arcan, (he will end up as your companion) He will try to redeem himself, and try to stop his sister and scorpio. I’m calling it now

      • Disqus this

        If im made to group with arcann at any point my time playing the swtor story will be over. IT was bad enough to group with shea vizla after what she did to the jedi temple. Forced to group with arcann. “F” that terrible story writing.

  • James Bechrakis

    Finished the chapter. I did it as a run from Chapter 10, so the story felt a little better than if I’d just had the one quick battle.

    Arcann was a decent boss fight with good mechanics, though a touch too easy. I was disappointed by my inability to kill him, but I suppose I’ll take the added family drama. Though it’s obvious now that Senya yanked us from the Chapter 8 fight with Vailyn to save her. I hope that, ultimately, we get to personally kill the entire family. I will enjoy that immensely.

    I was decent to Koth in earlier choices, and I tried to shoot Senya down, so the Gravestone is still firmly parked at Odessen. All in all, I guess I finished in as good a position as the game allows.

    Now, I guess we’ll have to see how they want us to deal with Brainiac … sorry, I mean Scorpio.

  • Harold

    Let’s be honest here. We have to give Bioware credit for one thing. They are doing an amazing job at giving “Twists” away. First of all, they had Shae Vizla in one trailer before she was announced for the chapter and they reuploaded the trailer like 3 times after giving things away too early without noticing it. Chapter 15 was advertised with an “ultimate betrayal” by one of your people (basically everyone knew it would be Scorpio) and then the KOTET teaser image. At least for me, it completely gave the ending away. Why would the Outlander and Senya confront each other? All the destroyed stuff around them and the lightning + lightsaber staff made it obvious that this isn’t a friendly conversation. This one image alone gave the ending away for me. Senya’s betrayal would be the best way to explain it and it turned out exactly like i’ve expected it.

    • Jack

      Thanks for the spoiler alert. What a jerk.

      • Nennavari

        … I sincerely hope that’s a joke. If not, then what the fuck is wrong with you?

        I just don’t follow the train of though that could have led you here, a webpage detailing the dialogue of a chapter. Then further scrolling to the comments section of that page, where people are surely going to be discussing the story and speculating on what comes next.

        A joke… right? Please? For the sake of my faith in humanity?

        • AdjeYo

          pl0x put a spoiler alert when you’re going to spoil the content of the article above, thankspl0x

    • Лев Сафаров

      I noticed Senya too, but for me it was just confirmation that she survives chapter 16. Person who stand back to us is maybe anyone i think.

      • Johnny

        And you still get influence with Senya and Scorpio at the end of the chapter, kind of amusing.

        • Лев Сафаров

          This yes, but you get similar messages even with valkorian, so this may be feature.

    • Shawn Hargrave

      they have the worst pr ever i have to say LOL ill never forget that con where they had that guy announcing a moveable ui and people were confused and the seats emptied fast pretty sad to watch

  • Swedguy

    Does Torian’s bit of dialouge only trigger for romanced bounty hunters? (When he speaks Mando’a)

    • Boba

      Probably – He usually speaks it to sound suave for the female BH

  • CRYPT from CATACOMBZ

    For me this game ended on lvl 55. Makeb and Oricon were amazing, lvl 60 with ultra bored shadow of revan was really dissapointing, but how was excited about Kotfe, must tell, so trully Kotfe is the biggest story crap ever from this game. Playing still this game, but…..

    • Darth Decimus

      The Dread Master arc was the best one by so far, I stopped enjoying the game after that one.

      • AshlaBoga

        Part of it is that the Dread Masters got such a great build and climax.

        Belsavis > KP > EC > TFB > Section X > Dreadseeds > S+V > Oricon > DF > DP

        They were hinted at in KP subtly, which in SWTOR is a rare commodity (subtly that is).

        They got multiple Operations and a Oricon was honestly Mordor IN SPACE!

        Everything about them screamed Sith + Nazghul. There were tough as nails in NiM DP at level 55 and had some great one liners.

        • Andhros

          Technically Makeb could be included as well. RotHC lists some of the Hutts motivation as protecting from future aggression by increasing their power base in the here and now.

        • Darth Decimus

          Yeah, it was great because the story actually followed a logical development and we always got end game content along. KOTFE instead was a real mess, I felt like every new chapter was just an improved version of a companion recruitment quest and instead of new end game content we got a recicled one along, name it heroics, the DvL event… all the things that we’re all tired to do, just receiving better rewards for doing them in exchange won’t buy me.

          I just didn’t pay my subs to earn more ingame credits while dev team only puts effort to create CM trash and make me pay even more.

        • Paulo Gomes

          Oh… But that was when the game was going in a really good direction, it was well thought and written…

    • Shawn Hargrave

      I left when ilum went bust that was it for me im into large scale pvp not this small scale warzone shit i watched my roommate who quit recently play up to makeb/oricron. The game could have been so much if they just had the right team/game engine/ea wasnt involved

      • EA/BW/MUSCO/SWTOR WHITE KNIGHT

        LOL you left after Ilum…so you’ve been bitching about the game for years?

        That level of dedication to bitching is legendary. Thank you for your continued subscription (we know you still subscribe).

        • Shawn Hargrave

          oh look everyone another rare sighting of a carebear/fanboi!! your a dying breed dude.

          This kind of carebearness is legendary you keep defending your golden turd to the end!

          i dont subscribe to this shitpile but i can tell your a lifer whos probably got everything off the cartel market and stands there on the fleet with all your store bought goodies lolz

          • Nuggs

            Don’t lie. You stay subbed. Then you join the edgy conversations about how terrible the game is, why still subscribed.

            • Shawn Hargrave

              …Oh yeah im a lifer for sure LOL

    • MKDAWUSS

      Shadow of Revan was the beginning of the decline (and the whole Republic and Empire Coalition should have been seen as a warning sign). We never really got to experience the war between the Empire and the Republic. We were for the most part, fighting a third party of some sort.

  • Dr-Waffle The-Third

    *SPOILERS* Honestly, I thought most of kotfe was predictable. Even their trailers gave it away. “SOMEONE BETRAYS YOU.” *Whole trailer shows off a selfish character known as scorpio*
    And to be fair our choices really didn’t seem to matter. Declining Valkorians offer to save lana still doesn’t cause her to die. Killing kaliyo doesn’t change anything. The only decision I can see having a difference is when koth betrays you. Hence him stealing the gravestone at the end. But there weren’t any significant changes. Hey, I could be wrong about choices mattering though. There probably are a few cutscenes I didn’t see, or in exchange a character having a different response. But In my experience nothing was extremely significant. One of the things about KOTFE that really boiled my beans was by how easy it was. Even Arcanns fight was underwhelming, it had some interesting mechanics, but I found myself beating him with little trouble. I was also in unaugged pvp gear so I wasn’t exactly the cream of the crop either. KOTFE also lacked immersion. I really think they should have released the chapters weekly. It seemed waiting a month for 30 minutes of sky troopers, and cutscenes really disengaged you from the story. I found myself forgetting what happened in the previous chapters, which made me care less about the chapter I was currently doing. overall I thought KOTFE was an improvement to the previous stories, it had great cinematics, but it was far too predictable, it lacked immersion at times; personally it was a walk in the park for me, and your choices did not seem to greatly affect the story. Choosing to kneel or join valkorian didn’t have a noticeable change for me either, which really was a kick in the nut to be honest.

  • Sarigar

    Well, now I’m more puzzled. I did Chapter XVI again on my lily-white pure Light Side Jedi Knight, and Koth did not steal the Gravestone. So now we have two very divergent timelines: one in which the Gravestone is stolen, and one in which the Alliance still controls it. Which leads me to think, based on the irrelevancy of every other choice we’ve made so far, that the Gravestone will play a minimal or nonexistent part in the next expansion. That’s not encouraging.

    • Darth Twinge

      or maybe all that is important is that Koth is flying it.
      Think Han Solo swooping in the Falcon at the last second to stop Vader from shooting down Luke on the DeathStar run.
      They just add one extra line of dialogue to indicate “Hey I’m back” and boom two versions allowed.

    • Andhros

      Technically most choices seemed to have been dropped or dangling since KotFE resolved very little, so they may have a recall later. The MacGuffin, I mean Gravestone didn’t do much this story. I assume that Koth and Gravestone will be pursuing Arcann throughout KotET either because he stole it, or you gave him permission and will reappear to save either the outlander or Valkorion near the end.

    • Rob

      Yeah I think Koth will fuck off with The Gravestone in the first cutscene of KOTET to pursue Arcann & Senya himself. That way we all start on same terms, Light or Dark. It’ll make a mockery of the one choice we made that effects the story.

      I was hugely disappointed that Arcann gets away. I definitely thought he’d be dead or prisoner now, depending on LS/DS. That was the whole point of the story wasn’t it?

    • BrianDavion

      not that the gravestone matters, for a ship thats supposed to be our ace in the hole I’m not sure it’s EVER actually WORKED

    • Guest

      I just take it as a sign that when it is needed Kith will show up and save the day.

    • Stuart Johnson

      Or you’ll get an actual difference in game play, those who lost the Gravestone will have to retrieve it and kill Koth and those who didn’t wont. And Senya and Arcanns reaction to you will depend on whether you let them go or took a shot at them. Maybe then some of you people will stop whining. But I dont hold out much hope, some people just are not happy without something to complain about.

  • Nuggies

    Good ending. Arcann will die one day, either through redeeming (self-sacrifice) or through the Outlander directly. Vaylin will eventually meet the same fate as will Scorpio. Poor Senya though. I’m going to assume she will eventually die in the story too. She would be broken after losing all three of her children.

    I loved the family drama!

    • Guest

      Arcann will end up as the redeemed hero. He was just twisted by his father into this twisted “more machine then man”. He will kill Vaylin, probably after she kills Senya.

      • Darth Twinge

        Or maybe he might even end up taking over as leader of the Republic and Vaylin will end up becoming the Empire. Both factions need something like that in order to recover. Otherwise the Outlander is best suited to be the leader of either faction and if the Outlander becomes either leader it causes messiness future story-wise…

  • Valkris84KT

    This is why SWTOR doesn’t work well on an episodic scale, there’s very little variation from light/dark/neutral choices on top of series lackluster participation from the crew you gathered/recruited as all those alliance alerts were literally nothing but fetch quests for pawns. Spoilers Below!!!!!!

    I was expecting something worth a damn for this chapter, no matter light or dark Arcann gets away, that’s not at all how BioWare games should play out. Also, having completed all the Alliance Alerts, I was expecting them to play a role in the final battle on ground, while the main crew took the fight against the fleet, however in true EA/BW vision the planet we defended goes untouched.

    As for the Light Saber we created, I didn’t even use it, as anyone who’s ever played a Legend of Zelda game has already fought and beat Arcann 10yrs ago lol. Seriously I was waiting for the epic fight only to be reduced to reflecting energy balls, stacking shield buffx100+ then bashing Arcann with a backhand…../golf clap…Bravo BW, way to make a fight with Space Ganondorf feel like a 2$ hooker.

    In conclusion this was not worth the $161.90 recurring sub fee taxes included from Nov/15-Aug/16, and all the monthly bonus HK crap, along with early access. This story was horrible with no real conclusion, resolution, and shocking twist. You the player can’t make a single choice Light or Dark that affects the total outcome, sure Dark Side choices can lead to killing off a companion or two, mutiny, and inner turmoil. However at the end your still the commander, the outlander, and leader of the new Alliance against the Eternal Throne. This is Horse Shit, a cash in on everything I love about the universe, and I just wish more people would lash out in disgust rather giving it a free pass.

    • Shawn Hargrave

      what you need to understand is that you cant have meaningful choices when other people are involved thats why kotor was able to do it and tor cant. When other players are involved making different choices then theres just mechanically and coding wise no way to do that. Think of it this way in reality when someones dead there dead everyone in the world understands that but if someone made a choice for that person to not be dead no matter what thier still dead lol. Why youll rarely see anyone die in tor because theyll always be that one person that chooses no and the other yes.

      the reason thier able to get away with this shit is because of stupid people not realizing thier being shit on more and more are catching on it seems though

      • gog

        Considering how the KotFE chapters are pretty much single player anyway, the MMO excuse seems pretty weak to me. We had the options to kill/not kill a lot of characters in the lvl1-50 class stories and even on the missions on planets available for all classes.

        Think the main reason for them doing this is simply money/laziness/lack of staff (pick your poison). Say you could kill off Koth in an earlier chapter. That would force Bioware to create 2 different versions of this chapter, one were Koth is alive and one where he’s dead. Which means more assets and voice acting costs. Say you can actually kill Arcann and Senya in this one, that too would require them to make sure KotET have makes sense for chars that left those alive or killed them, or a mix of both. Or they go the ME route and put a different char in place, like Wreav instead of Wrex in ME2/3.

        This would probably be the way most of us would like the story to work, but it doesn’t seem like Bioware/EA is committed enough with the game at this point to bother. There’s so much possibilities and potential in the story to make it unique for different characters depending on their class and whether they were rep or imp, but they haven’t really bothered at all with that except for a few changes in dialogue here and there.

      • BrianDavion

        when the ENTIRE advertising campaign for KOTFE has been “YOUR CHOICES MATTER!” I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect our choices to matter

        • Shawn Hargrave

          i hear ya its a load of shit like i said cant have choices with others involved it only works in kotor as youve seen

          • BrianDavion

            I mean KOTFE went about how I expected it too, but they DID advertise the expansion as one where “choices matter” (with the impression our choices would have MORE impact then it did in the past) and in that regard, the games come up short. Ultimately the ONLY big decision thats mattered so far is is Koth stays or goes

            • Shawn Hargrave

              in kotor im the only person there making the choices its why it matters in kotor in tor theres other people making choices

          • Kaosbuddy

            Everything’s phased and behind loading screens – hell, they admitted they prevented people grouping for story content so players wouldn’t get bound by others’ decisions.

            They just didn’t let the story branch off for anything interesting regardless.

    • Paulo Gomes

      I have lashed out in disgust, I have interrupted a CONSTANT subscription since launch last December (I subbed again to get Vette and now to have all the Episodes). I have boycotted the Cartel Market.

      And yes, this is an incredible cash in on something we all love. This is a disservice to Star Wars, and even to the history of Bioware, a company that used to deliver first grade stories to their fan base.

  • Jack Manny

    A masked bad guy facing the good guys on the bridge of his flagship only to be betrayed by his fleet trying to kill everyone. This attacks looks like that kills him, only for him to be spirited away by a woman in the hope of redeeming him…I wonder where BW got the idea for that from?

    • ConcernedGuest

      Oh you’re so damned right, didn’t recognize this … but everything gets repeated this day in star wars, just look at ep VII …

    • Andhros

      Oedipus Rex X KOTOR.

    • AGF

      Where is the idea from? if I may ask

      • Jack Manny

        Revan KOTOR

  • End

    Good, now can you divert all effort into the fucking endgame operations and content? Fucking please..

    • BrianDavion

      don’t be silly, they’re too busy perpareing for KOTFE season 2: revenge of the cartel market!

  • TMNJ

    Alliance seems totally pointless. Everything was done by Outlander and main story characters, and nothing significant happened. Noone even died. Still kinda interested in SCORPIO’s motivation.

    • Rob

      I haven’t ran it through on my Agent yet, I’m slightly interested to see if there’s extra conversation between him and Scorpio. At this point I’m desperate for anything that links this expansion to the original stories, especially after they changed Vitiate’s personality so radically. Sith Emperor goes from homicidal maniac to neutral family man. Thanks Bioware

      • FlyXan

        The agent has somewhat different options when talking to Scorpio. But the outcome is the same.

        • BrianDavion

          well no matter what your class “let’s trust the psyko murder droid” seems like a horriable idea

          • Grammar

            Let’s, psyko, horriable

            Jesus fucking Christ you need to put swtor down and read a book.

            • Guest

              Why should he read a book?

              • Don Loco

                As shocking as this may be, he might actually learn something. Maybe how to write something people can understand?

      • Anthony-Skyrim

        I believe, the Sith emperor’s plan all along was to draw you to Zakuul. He allowed/orchestrated his death. I think he is searching for the Ultimate vessel to occupy, and that is you! He is instructing you, helping you… but there is a price. The more control you allow him, the more close he gets to achieve his goals, or something of the sort. I just hope there is a smart twist to this, or else it’s just bad writing…
        Anws, Bioware is milking the series, won’t be surprised if they planned 10 seasons to finally reveal the true nature and motives of the Emperor, at least that’s what season 1 KOTFE finale suggests, a long road is ahead ($$$)
        I also agree with you on the sudden change of personality, true we haven’t seen the original vessel of Vitiate before, but still doesn’t explain this sudden personality flip. I guess they might have given the character a redesign?
        Whatever the case, I believe KOTFE deserved a more epic and fitting finale, one that would have hooked us for next season, and showed us that our choices do matter!

    • Shawn Hargrave

      what do you need an alliance for when you have the most powerful sith in the universe in your head and willing to help LOL

  • Darkwraith Turk

    I wonder how Bioware feels knowing after Obsidian made KOTOR 2 that they’ll never be able to live it down knowing they will never make anything better in their lifetime.

    • Paulo Gomes

      KotOR 2 cannot hold a candle to KotOR 1. The story and the plot in KotOR 1 was WAY better than in 2, mainly because 2 was rushed out to launch before being finished.

      And yes, I know all about the various mods you can add to 2 with the remaining material that was never officially released. Still, KotOR 1 is a way better game.

      If Bioware have to top anyone, it’s themselves.

      • EyesOfGehenna .

        Yeah, bottom line is that the original stories from 1-50 as stories go were much better. It’s not all bad but the amount of inconsistencies in the KotFE story is discouraging

        • Truly Deceptive

          Chapter X Kaliyo: “Tech isn’t my thing.”

          Chapter XII Kaliyo: “Destroying that relay station is a bonehead play. Send me, and you’ll control the GEMINI frequency.”

      • Darkwraith Turk

        Is that why Nihilus is your avatar

        • Paulo Gomes

          No, that’s because Nihilus looks cool 🙂

          • Darth-Robin

            nihilus was just a mindless beast consumed by power he isnt anything special
            now kreia is someone who has been fleshed out properly

            • Paulo Gomes

              Yeah, but if I put Kreia as my avatar that would raise a whole new can of worms, specially with my wife…

              And having a being that can consume ALL life in a planet and call him nothing special does not compute for me… Yes, he doesn’t get the plot attention that Kreia gets, but he deserved it…

      • Gavin

        Both the plot and the characters in KotOR II are imo much deeper then in KotOR, the story is – in a good sense – a mindfuck, Kreia’s speech on the Jedi Council meeting when she smashes them all against the wall like nothing is probably the best i ever heard in games and the character herself is my all time fav sith. Also, interactions with your companions are on the entirely different level, you can actually influence each one of them much like SW influence Jaesa but not so bluntly, and the companions themselves are more developed, not so shallow and monochrome like they’re in KotOR I and even more so in SWTOR.

        • Paulo Gomes

          Yeah, the second game had some really nice improvements: the Force powers upgrade, the lightsaber disciplines, the comps are very good indeed…

          The problem is that it’s a game that sets up KotOR 3, that as we all now know, never came! It doesn’t really end, does it? So, for all it’s promise I maintain my original thought: KotOR 1 is BETTER, because it’s a complete statement. KotOR 2 is NOT.

    • BrianDavion

      KOTOR 2 was garbage. the plot was decent, except it wasn’t really star wars. and it was buggy

    • Risqu’e

      KOTOR2 had waaay to many bugs in it. Crashed all the time. Not as bad as a Bethesda game, but still unacceptable.

  • Koth-Killer

    Just wondering what happens if you try to shoot down Senya/Arcann with Koth still in your Alliance. Does he still have a little huffy moment and storm off?

    • Kristopher Vincent

      No.

    • Don Loco

      Not yet.

    • Stuart Johnson

      No, that’s what he wants. He’s more annoyed when you don’t, but doesn’t leave.

  • My updated kill list :

    -Arcan
    -Scorpio
    -Senya
    -Koth
    -Vaylin
    -Satele Shan
    -Rest Jedi (Republic)
    -weak Sithlings and traitors ( included Dark Council)

    Goals :

    1. Create new Empire on dogma/idea Darth Malgus which one know about retarded and treat from Emperor Valkorionand weak Dark Council
    .

    • Stuart Johnson

      I would add Theron for failing to keep Koth from taking the Gravestone.

      • Risqu’e

        Agreed. Both When that happened and Arcann and Senya got away in the shuttle, I was thinking, this is where Darth Vader would have turned around and choked someone. We have more than enough companions, we should be able to randomly execute one when we get angry 😉

      • yea updated

  • Sidcor

    Question: If you killed Kaliyo or Aric at the end of an earlier chapter, who are the two you initially leave to guard the base before choosing Torian, Vette or Gault?

    • Harold

      It is only a small difference. I’ve decided to kill Kaliyo and i could decide between Aric and the rest. Seems like the others just take the place of the dead one. Same result just with one option less to choose from.

    • Stuart Johnson

      My sith warrior banished Kaliyo so he got Aric and chose Torian.

    • Zachary Williams

      If you killed one, the other stays, if you killed neither they both stay.

  • Firnon Zodd

    *Spoiler Warning*

    Bioware, WHY WON’T YOU LET YOUR OVER-ARCING ANTAGONISTS DIE!? As I remember there was a video for KOTFE a while back that showed Malgus in carbonite probably not dead, Revan didn’t die in the Foundry Flashpoint, Vitiate/Valkorion won’t stay dead, and now Arcann joins the ‘Guess what I’m not dead’ club.

    • Darth Twinge

      I do agree that a lot of dead guys outstay their welcome.
      But, to be fair the Malgus thing wasnt done by Bioware, it was the company they outsourced to make the “Sacrifice” trailer and the Bioware crew thought it was hilarious when they saw it, but turned it down for obvious reasons. They just let us see it at the cantinas for humor purposes. 🙂

      • Firnon Zodd

        Well still, I would not be the least bit surprised if Malgus returns.

    • Stuart Johnson

      Revan did die but only the jedi part of him. The sith part lived on. You were not paying attention apparently.

      • Firnon Zodd

        Yeah the jedi part of him died then, and the sith part lived on. But that sith part was still Revan, thus Revan didn’t die in the Foundry. There is a difference between partially dead and all dead.

        • Zachary Williams

          He was only mostly dead, he clearly said “To blathe” which as we all know means “to bluff”, so he was probably playing cards and he cheated.

  • Aricin

    This was posted on the official forums and the poster put it much better words than I could. Credit to “Chessack”

    It strikes me that the central problem of KOTFE is not choice, but something deeper than this — the reason why choices do not, and I would argue cannot, be made to matter in this storyline. And it’s this: your character is not the protagonist of the story. By definition (per Wikipedia), a protagonist “is at the center of the story, should be making the difficult choices and key decisions, and should be experiencing the consequences of those decisions.”

    By this definition, Arcann, not you, is the protagonist. You can tell by what happens in Chapter 16 for sure, if not earlier — because Arcann is the one who suffers the consequences of the decisions he’s been making all along. He ends up armless in a shuttle with his mommy because of his choices, not yours.

    On the other hand, your character is more correctly viewed as the antagonist. Your entire role is to oppose Arcann at every turn, and try to stop him from accomplishing his plans. Your character, as people have been griping about, doesn’t really make any key decisions (all the key ones are made by Arcann, e.g. when he kills his brother, kills his father, and the like) and you are just trying to oppose him. And your character suffers zero consequences at any point in the story. At the end of the story, our PC is just fine and dandy and unhurt and have all our henchies (other than certain ones) and our base is fine and so on.

    If you view it that way, you can see why your choices can only be cosmetic… because if Arcann is the main character of KOTFE, then his choices are the important ones, not yours. If you look at how the cut-scenes are done this becomes apparent — there are tons and tons of cut-scenes with just Arcann or Arcann + his followers, lots of scenes your character would not be there to witness, but you see them anyway. Why is that? In the other character class stories did we see what was going on far outside our character’s field of view? Usually, no. Why not? Because your character is the protagonist of your class story. But here we see Arcann and Vaylan over and over again, in situations our character could not possibly observe, because he is the main character so we have to see his story. He’s the one making choices and suffering consequences so they need to show us those, even when we couldn’t have seen them.

    And there you have it: your character is not the protagonist of KOTFE. Arcann is. And that is why none of your choices can matter — Arcann’s matter, instead.

    Note: I am not defending BW here. I am not saying you guys are all wrong to expect choices and consequences. I hated the KOTFE story and think that it is probably the worst BW story I have ever played, and that is saying something when you consider DA2 and ME3. I think in a game like this it was a mistake of the first order for them to write a story where the *NPC* was the central protagonist and the PC was the antagonist. I’m just pointing out something that, perhaps, might not have been so obvious, because it really did not hit me fully until I played C16 last night.

    • Reeberus

      Interesting read. That makes a lot of senses. I think we could add to this explanation that the game is a MMO, and yet, that xpack is single player rpg oriented. You actually share this world with thousand of other players, who won’t make the same choices you do. So the choices you makes can’t have a real impact on the world itself, like it could in a true single player rpg. I just don’t understand why they don’t just make a KOTOR III, and give this game more group content, like it’s suppose to be. Bad choices will be the end of this game. I was there when it happened in SWG (CU and NGE were the downfall of this game). Starting to feel like KOTFE & KOTET will be for this one.

    • Rompe Himself

      Do you have a link for where exactly he posted that magnificent analysis on the swtor forums? I would like to see the reaction from it.

      • Aricin

        http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=891378
        Here you go. Post on page 1 about halfway down

        • Rompe Himself

          My thanks and while we are on the topic of awesome and spot on SWTOR forum posts about the joke that is Chapter 16 (and I am firing up my new little Discus membership finally – YAY), I saw this spot on analysis of the past 6 chapters which shows how bad the writing was and again how choices don’t matter:

          Quote:

          Originally Posted by feylyndiira

          And it doesn’t help that almost every single chapter has been like
          this dangling carrot to get snatched away at the end (or in the next
          chapter). Think about it…..pretty much every “game-changing” thing we
          get promised has either been taken away, not used, botched, and/or
          failed in some way:

          Chapter 10: We get the schematics to the Spire. If we ever want to
          invade, this is the automatic win! We can use this to take over! (See ch
          12)

          Chapter 11: Yay! We get Havok Squad and a team of local guerilla-fighters-in-training! (see ch 12 again)

          Chapter 12: Okay, now we get to use everything we got in ch 10 and 11 to
          shut down the Eternal Fleet! But wait….you have to go out to the
          woods and commune with the Emperor first! Don’t worry, we’ll
          wait….since this is THE MOST IMPORTANT mission so far! Oops…sorry,
          we lied, we did it without you….and failed. Whoops! And Havok Squad is
          dead (and possibly one of the companions you just got). Oh, but you got
          a nifty new weapon that’s going to make the difference in the fight
          against Arcann and an introduction to the Grey Side of the Force (you’re
          not a Force-user? That’s okay, just roll with it)

          Chapter 13: Ooo…now we get to rob Arcann blind and steal his entire
          treasury! Okay…that’s done. What are we going to do with all this
          money?! Forget we have it, I guess….

          Chapter 14: Let’s go join the Mandalorians and steal the GEMINI Prime! We can take over the fleet with her! It will be awesome!

          Chapter 15: Erm….well, we went through all that and SCORPIO just
          trolls us and takes over. Seriously!? All that work and not only are we
          empty-handed, we’re worse off than we started?!

          Chapter 16: Okay…this is it…the Battle Royale! Arcann’s going DOWN!
          Or….not. His mom saved him even though I tried to kill
          him….twice….and this nifty new weapon didn’t do much compared to the
          Wonder Woman Shield of Invincibility I found just lying on the floor.

          Soooo…..I went through 16 chapters of missions, acquiring companions,
          weapons, money, resources, etc….and I’m pretty much back to square
          one, just with a different set of despots on the throne. *facepalm*
          Screw the Alliance, I’m going to go look for my still-lost husband(s)
          and retire to Dantooine.

          • Sarigar

            I hear they have farms, and giant insects.

            • Rompe Himself

              Would that be a Pepperidge Farm perhaps? :p

    • Don Loco

      Well written but the if this is the case then why do the devs keep screaming to the world that “Choices Matter” (TM) when it is obvious that they do not. One damn choice made my one of my toons is all the difference? That is better sold as “You’ll have A choice that matters!” (TM)

      • Aricin

        That’s the thing. I subbed continuously since launch and now I am very much meh. It wouldn’t matter that the sub rewards are all reskinned junk if the episodic content was worth it.
        They were some good chapters in there, but if you subbed over the whole 16 chapters and the run up to it you spend close to $120. Now it becomes a WTF moment.
        The other thing why I play is I like the PvP in this game, but without cross server queues its dead at times. So why should I sub? I have only been billed, so I will wait for the next producer life stream and then make a choice. Its been building for a while, but starting to care a lot less.

        • 0shark0

          I did a 6-month sub that got renewed a little while ago as I forgot to cancel it before it re-subbed me. When I got the email about it my first thought wasn’t the fun I would have, or the cost, it was that I didn’t want EA/BW to think their new “content” was acceptable to me. It very much isn’t.

          I think there’s a fatal flaw with their story content, namely that even if you enjoy the story the chapters are so easy, linear/predetermined, and tedious that they have limited replay value. That’s fine if you have only 1-2 characters but those of us with multiple characters (10-20+) we have nothing to do with all but 1 or 2 of them. Secondly, there’s no reason to be part of the game community, join a guild, etc to do the new content, and the content doesn’t take very long either. I am in several guilds and all but one has seen a drastic down-turn not only in number of members but also in game activity. The ops/raid focused ones were by far hit the hardest. Playing with friends is one of the main reasons for MMOs and how much content has been released in the last year that requires or even rewards playing in a group? Basically a couple PVP arenas, big deal.

          I haven’t played much in the last 6 months, none of my characters have left their strongholds for months either. I really don’t see the point. I could take a couple characters down the straight-line “maze” of the latest chapters, but it wasn’t like the story was compelling, certainly not the second time.

          SWTOR has devolved into a single player game, with some people waiting in queues to rehash old multiplayer content, and the cartel market. That doesn’t make me want to log-in.

          • Don Loco

            I was able to run three toons through to chapter 12 and I just couldn’t do any more. Skytrooper mobs, mini movie, skytrooper mobs, mini movie…wash rinse repeat. Story made no sense of any non force using class. I was able to get to chapter 10 with my agent but had to laugh after that. This was a great idea that was shoved down the shitter sad to say. It really could have been so much more.

      • Rompe Himself

        Because the dev’s need catchy marketing lines to lure in new players to replace the many many subs who quit over 4.0/no new ops/mmo turning into single player/add your own reason here etc.

        Time and again Bioware have talked their shit up only to give us a farce when it comes time. Take for example how hard they hyped their December 2015 livestream. You had Drew Krapshyn talking shit up saying “We’re announcing this already? Is the world ready? Are WE ready?” AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDD what was the huge amazing announcement??

        Well it was the beginning of Bioware whoring the shit out of poor HK:

        http://dulfy.net/2015/12/01/swtor-december-producers-livestream-coverage/

        I also remember them hyping another event and all it turned out to be was a collection of sith warrior cutscenes. They are masters of overhyping and under delivering. And once they have your sub $$$$ and you sit there feeling cheated, they are too busy counting $$$$ to hear you.

        So now KOTFE is in the books, is it safe to say this Jessie Sky fellow needs to be fired and we can all just laugh at how delusional Charles Boyd really is?? 😛

        • Aricin

          Did the HK bonus chapter come out? I haven’t seen it …

          • Rompe Himself

            I am guessing not yet and as usual, Bioware are doing their best to not communicate and keep their player base in the loop:

            http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=890999

            And Bioware’s own page STILL has no info:

            HK-55 BONUS CHAPTER – PLAY AS HK-55!
            BE A SUBSCRIBER FROM: JAN 11 – AUG 1**
            RELEASE DATE TO BE ANNOUNCED IN FEBRUARY

            http://www.swtor.com/fallen-empire/rewards

            It is now August and still no release date. Like I said in an earlier comment, they hype, under deliver and stop pretending to give two shits once they have your $$$$.

            • Stuart Johnson

              You’re not paying attention, They did announce HK-55 misson is coming September 7th along with a new alert involving Rusk and Skadge.

          • Havik79

            7th September, along with Rusk and Skadge mission.

      • Stuart Johnson

        Because the choices matter in Knights of the Eternal Throne. They said that a long time ago that the choices made in this season would have their results in the next. I don’t understand how people can claim choices don’t matter when you just saw one that did. If you went dark side Koth stole the Gravestone, if you’re lightside he didn’t.

        • Don Loco

          Actually they said months ago that in the coming chapters (there were still four at that time) we would see the effects. However at the end of 16 there is ONE choice that has made any difference thus far and that was Koth. My choices to kill Kaliyo came to not as did my choice to kill Jorgan. White knight all you want but they really screwed the pooch with this.

        • Zachary Williams

          And what impact is that likely to have on the story, since the fact that Koth previously ran away had absolutely no impact on his presence in chapter 16, the first time he was relevant again. Do we really think the gravestone won’t show up again the instant it becomes relevant to the plot?

    • Paulo Gomes

      VERY good point. I actually hadn’t thought of that myself. He/she is absolutely right.

    • Darth Twinge

      Good write up, and I completely agree with this. I was actually thinking last night that, in a way, the ending was mimicking The Empire Strikes Back a little bit, but we were oddly in the Darth Vader role:

      We beat Arcann and leave him for dead, but he survives and his mommy picks him up and gets him on a ship. We get in a shuttle to go to our ship but pursue him and fire on him and he gets away. Now we’re all sad.

      Vader beat Luke who jumped to his presumed death but he survives and his sister picks him up in a ship and Vader gets a shuttle to his ship which pursues them and fires at them just before the ship gets away. Sad Vader.

      • Paulo Gomes

        Another problem with this expansion was the character development. Things just happen too fast.

        I had quoted Batman vs Superman way bellow, and the “mommy” moment made me think of that precisely. Where in the movie Batman turns his character completely just because Superman cries out “Martha”, here Senya turns completely from her course just because Arcann prevents his sister from killing Mom. It could make sense, but it’s too damned fast.

        Just like SCORPIO: releasing the Eternal Fleet did make some sense to me, but everything was half-assed. Too fast. Character development out the window.

        And why share the Eternal Fleet with Vaylin? Doesn’t SCORPIO hint at being fed up with “serving lesser beings”? What gives? Is Vaylin her equal? Only thing that makes sense is if SCORPIO is playing Vaylin too…

        Ah, enough ranting… Guess we’ll see what it’s all about in KotET… HOPEFULLY…

        🙂

        • Darth Twinge

          Yeah, All we can really hope for is that SCORPIO is just playing Vaylin out the same way she did the Outlander.
          There’s also that mail you get afterwards about the GEMINI landing on Hoth and scanning it. Perhaps SCORPIO doesn’t care about the throne because she is basically SKYNET and plans to wipe out all organic life. XD

        • Lisa Linton

          “here Senya turns completely from her course just because Arcann prevents his sister from killing Mom”

          This is simply not true. Senya has always intended to “save” both Arcann and his sister. She has always said she wanted another way than killing them. When she saves Arcann; she is following her well established character motivations.

          Why did she seek out Arcann on the ship, if not to save him?

          • Paulo Gomes

            That’s crap. How many times did Senya say her children had to pay for what they’ve done? And suddenly because he stops Vaylin from killing her he doesn’t have to pay for anything? Oh that’s great character development right there. HE became the Emperor, he KILLED his brother… Suddenly he doesn’t have to pay for anything, because he had a “mommy moment”…

            I’t s half-assed and my 8 year old could write a better storyline.

            If you saw that motivation in her character, please tell me where, because I’ve done the xpansion 8 times, coming on 9 and that has eluded me…

            • Lisa Linton

              Wow… what an angry rant. Did I dare to disagree with you?

              Unfortunatly you still don’t actually understand the writing. Maybe you need another play through? Sometimes it takes some people longer to understand something.

              But I’ll try and explain for you…

              Senya wants to stop her children. Even if she wants to make them “pay”, that does not mean murdering them in cold blood. They are her children, she is their mother. She’d have to be Darkside as hell to murder her own children in cold blood.

              The scene when Arcann flicks Vaylin back? Nothing changes for Senya. She was going to that room to save Arcann, and she continued doing it. The moment Arcann stops Vaylin says MORE about ARCANN’s character than Senya’s.

              Senya’s motivations in the scene remain unchanged. She refuses to kill Vaylin earlier, and asks you to wait till she arrives when you face Arcann. Thats because she wants to make she Arcann is defeated, but you -don’t- kill him.

              The confusing thing… about the episodes are this:
              1) Why the helll does your character not makes sure Arcann is dead, its not the first time stuff fell on him and did not kill him.
              2) Why does Arcann stop Vaylin? I have a theory that he did it to save himself. He knows if Vaylin kills Senya, she’ll probably finish him off. But his mother will not kill him. So maybe it does make sense.
              3) Why can’t you destroy one shuttle with a fighter!
              4) How did Koth get back on my god damn ship!

              In the end, I feel Senya has been a consistant character. She has deep regrets that she left her children in the care of their father. She feels that they have been scared by this, and twisted to evil. This is something Senya never wanted or thought would happen. (one wonders how she missed that the Emperor is like the king of Evil, but oh well, thats the biggest problem with the new stuff; the Eternal Emperor himself). Senya blames herself and wants to save her children from themselves, she wants to stop them. She never once says she would kill either of them.

              • Paulo Gomes

                Well, what a waste of paragraphs to say what I had already said.

                “Even if she wants to make them “pay”, that does not mean murdering them in cold blood.”

                Compare your paragraph with mine if you please:

                “I never mentioned killing, you did. Making him pay for his actions does not equal killing him. But it’s a LOOOOOONG way from eloping with him against the Alliance… What about a trial? Bringing him in for some JUSTICE? Noooo… She runs away with him…”

                Thank you for the advice on another playthrough, but out of my 24 level 65 characters I already did it 8 times, coming on 9. I can probably start to recite the lines at the same time all the NPC’s say them.

                Condescending will not make me change my opinion either. As I’ve said, Arcann is getting a “get out of jail” free card and Senya’s actions don’t make sense. They would, IF the character development wasn’t half-assed and too abrupt. Please refrain from using condescension, it’s wasted on me. Really.

                And just as a reminder, Star Wars is full of siblings and family members that try to kill each other… Luke goes against Vader, but that fight is set up throughout the ENTIRE first trilogy. Arcann just has a “mommy moment”, and you think that is good character development??? Well you can disagree with me at any time, but I would advise you to watch the first trilogy and see what character development is all about… Or many of the EU (that’s Expanded Universe, I can EXPLAIN that to you if you didn’t know) novels. The Qel-Droma brothers story is very good as a starting place…

              • Risqu’e

                I thought Senya saving Arcann came suddenly out of left field also. Especially because it seemed like she never went to Vailyn like she agreed to. Unless Senya was just playing us out for her own agenda like SCORPIO. It just didn’t feel that way though.

                I was also questioning if when Arcann woke up after his fight with us if he had just come out of something similar to the dream we had with Valkorian, and Valkorian used him to save Senya becuase as Valkorian said several times “he really loved her” I’m not so sure that Arcann would have saved her life from his sister on his own. In fact, I got the impression from earlier in KOTFE he planned to kill her himself at some point but she was less of a priority than Valkorian or the Outlander…

              • Paulo Gomes

                Oh but we’re all wrong, it makes perfect sense! Now that this Lisa Linton has opened my eyes to the truth I get it: we’re all idiots, we’re all wrong, only people like her understand the story and the whole Star Wars thing…

                Irony aside, yeah it comes from left field and makes no sense. I mean, I wasn’t expecting her to murder her sons, but bringing them in for a taste of lawful justice was to be expected, considering the character development ’till then. Timing is everything in story telling, and BW missed their timing.

                I guess we’ll have more answers with KotET… I really hope so anyways…

                But what do I know? I’m just a 44 year old nerdy Star Wars guy that writes like an 8 year old…

              • Risqu’e

                Don’t confuse her with the facts. Her mind is made up lol

              • zolushka13

                I don’t know if you’re a man or woman but for me, as a female, I find Senya’s choice to save Arcaan quite reasonable. It makes sense that despite all her children had done, her maternal instincts and inherent need to protect them would kick in.

                She obviously has been harbouring guilt over leaving them, likely thinking it’s all her fault becuase she wasn’t there for them, therefore saving Arcaan is her way of making things right, by helping him become a better person.

                Idk but I thought Senya’s intentions were blatantly clear throughout the chapters.

                Maybe I’m overly optimistic, but I like to think both her and Arcaan’s actions were genuine.

              • Lisa Linton

                Ah I get it, you’re just an idiot

                “Condescending will not make me change my opinion either. As I’ve said,
                Arcann is getting a “get out of jail” free card and Senya’s actions
                don’t make sense.”

                1) Your first post (to me) is 100% Condescending. So I responded in the same way. “Oh I’ve played through 9 million and 99 times, I know better than you!”

                2) Your second post to me then complains about being talked down too and then is condescending itself!

                I give up. No point talking to a fool about a rational thing.

                I’ll make it easy.

                You are wrong, You don’t understand Star Wars, You don’t understand the plot of swtor, and you write like an 8 year old!

                I won’t be replying to you again. So please, have the last word. Say anything you like. I won’t even read it.

                Bye Felicia!

            • Lisa Linton

              Did my post not work? or get deleted? ah well

              I disagree with you Paulo, and think you don’t understand the story at all. But can’t be bothered to rewrite my epic post.

              Seeya! out of here

              • Paulo Gomes

                Your post is about as “epic” as Bioware’s “epic” storytelling.

    • Disqus this

      Solid theory but it sure didn’t stop the chapters from sucking so bad, each to their own varying degrees.. Especially the conclusion of 16.

    • Whitedragon

      blah blah blah…yawn

  • Paulo Gomes

    Ok… After all that’s been written I have a few points I want to make. Bear with me please.

    BW have created a Doctor Jekyll/Mr Hyde game. On one hand you have the MMO part, that we are probably all agreeing has been abandoned.

    On the other part, they tried to morph some kind of Single Player RPG thing, and failed miserably.

    I could go on about choices, plot holes, etc, etc…

    I will not do that.

    I will only ask you guys one question:

    Do you feel emotionally driven by this story? Do you feel riveted? Did you feel emotionally immersed in it?

    I do not.

    Remember that moment when in KotOR you took off the mask and realised YOU were Revan? I JUMPED from my seat! I circled twice around the room in sheer amazement of that moment. THAT’S epic!

    Whenever I’m playing KotFE I’m just going through the motions. I have 16 characters yet to start KotFE, and I dread the moment when I will start to do that. IF I start to do it. That’s a fail in my book…

    • Rob

      KoTOR was an exceptional piece of storytelling. If they had gotten even half way near that, I would’ve been happy. But alas they didn’t get anywhere remotely near it.

      ‘A return to Bioware storytelling’ was promised when the announcement came.Well Bioware did Kotor so I got excited. This never at any point made me feel anything other than disappointment.

      I guess I should take blame as well as I expected at least an effort to made by Bioware to live up to Kotor.

    • Shawn Hargrave

      yeah i still find it funny that they cant capture the excitement that kotor has even with bad graphics i prefer this over tor anyday hard to believe what they did with revan pisses me off

    • MKDAWUSS

      “Remember that moment in KotOR when you took off the mask and realised
      YOU were Revan? I JUMPED from my seat! I circled twice around the room
      in sheer amazement of that moment. THAT’S epic!”

      THAT was coming from a MILE AWAY

      • Paulo Gomes

        Perhaps. Not for me though. I was genuinely surprised.

      • Darth Twinge

        Really? I did not see it coming and was happily shocked. Best thing in the franchise since TESB
        Much in the way when you find out Bruce Willis is a ghost in the 6th Sense.
        It’s a total shock but when you think about it afterwards you realize they showed you at the beginning and you go “damn it!” lol

    • dtxu

      I liked many parts of the story. It did catch me, emtionally, more than the regular class stories. Not all the time, but it did.

      With chapter 16 out now, I’m disappointed with the big story arc. Nothing really happend. You made some friends, some of them betrayed you, the head vilian changed, but this is no differance at all. In the end you have achieved nothing! If you have stayed in carbonited, everything would be the same. Your actions didn’t matter at all. You didn’t need any of your allies, and your whole alliance is useless and didn’t do anything.

      • Risqu’e

        I wouldn’t go so far as to say we accomplished “nothing” We still dethroned both Valkorian and Arcann, liberated planets from the starfortresses, got rid of the Eternal Fleet (for now), got the Empire and Republic to team up against a common foe, (and by the end hundreds of people that otherwise would not have) The galaxy would still be worse off without the Outlander, but it is true that it is not near perfect yet.

        • Reeberus

          We did not dethroned Valkorian, Arcann did. And we could say Arcann dethroned himself with his stupid actions. We liberated planet from starfortresses (yet we see no impact of this at all), Eternal Fleet is not gone, it’s free will now, which is even worse if you ask me. The only thing that was accomplished, was getting Empire and Republic to team up against a common foe. But if you recall correctly, that happened BEFORE. Remember Shadow of Revan ? Yeah, that’s were that alliance all began. So, yeah, one could argue that we accomplished nothing in KOTFE (heck, we couldn’t finish that wannabe emperor Arcann in 3 or 4 different opportunities).

    • randy191993

      Except for the fact that many parts of the chapters dragged on because the maps for them were unnecessarily long and had way too many enemies that you could not dodge in any way, the story itself was not too bad.

      It’s better than most class stories were. So yeah, while surely not a revolution, i enjoyed KOTFE. And i’m looking forwatd to the next expansion.

      • Zachary Williams

        I really enjoyed 1-9 the first 2 or so times through.
        I loathe chapter 10.
        Chapter 11 has one of my all time least favorite companions as the focus.
        Chapter 12 made no sense if you weren’t a force user.
        Chapter 13 was amazing.
        Chapter 14 was way too long for what it accomplished.
        Chapter 15 straight up pissed me off as it demonstrated unequivocally that choices do NOT matter or change the plot in any way other than cosmetically.
        Chapter 16 was alright, minus the whole Koth bullshit.

    • Havik79

      No, at first I did, but chapters 10 – 12 killed it, not just the constant fighting trash mobs worse than original Makeb, or them pulling aggro from way outside combat range, but the stupidity of it, I am (im one case) the god damn emperors wraith, but because some kitty cat is angry he can’t lick himself like his ancestors did, wants me to save some damn no body civs, and say no, I still have to do so.

      That and the fact they plagiarised chapter 12 except added face raping demons.

      After all the promises of revenge to get none, but not only that the fact it is just going to be the same stuff next season, does not fill me with excitement, certainly not by the saber pike Senya is using, which she won’t just like pre KotfE Lana was shown as rerolling as a mara.

      If not for the credit limit I would drop my sub, of course if they do that no one would sub.

      Although I did really enjoy the reunion with Vette, that pairing up Vette and Gualt, and Vaylin’s voice actor is the only things they did right.

    • gog

      Played through the demon hunter story in WoW tonight, hadn’t read any spoilers so just did it for fun and to see how that class was to play. The cinematics were pretty good, really liked the story. Then came the cutscene in Orgrimmar and I almost started to cry. WoW should not be better with story than SWTOR, yet they are currently.

  • Anger

    It makes me want to go to whereever their next event is and grill them on video about their content. Someone really needs to do this and record it and not ask simple questions and request actual answers as a paying customer, hold them accountable.. even Trump released content about some of his policies and not just “trust us” or “tba”

    • Shawn Hargrave

      ive actually done this they just run off and hide behind cardboard stands they rarely want to discuss shit. The ones that do tend to be frustrated and agree with me but act like they dont for fear of bieng fired lol

  • Supreme Leader

    THEORY:
    Did this ever cross anyone’s mind? KOTFE was made in collaboration with LUCASFILM. I know many theories revolve around Snoke’s identity. But letting Arcann live in that finale, managing to survive(again) against all the odds, points that the character still got a major role to play in the galaxy far far away…
    I understand that the old republic era is considered to be non-canon at the moment, but we must consider that SWTOR is the only “Legends” content still being released, and if they ever want to bring it back to the canon universe of the movies, it would definitely be through Lucasfilm, with a good reason to do so.
    This is the first expansion for SWTOR, where we have a Bioware/Lucasfilm team-up, released just a few months before “The Force Awakens”.
    The 2 pics underneath this post, help pin-point some uncanny resemblances between the two characters:
    -Arcann’s mask fits perfectly the burning scars on supreme leader Snoke’s face
    -Both share an interest in both sides of the force…
    -Snoke is described as an ancient being, having witnessed many events in star wars history
    -Both share a strong affinity to the Force (Descendants of Valkorion the most powerful force user to date?)
    What are your thoughts on the subject?

    • Paulo Gomes

      Well, that would make Supreme Leader Snoke (stupid name, and by far the thing I liked the least in Ep VII) over 5000 years old… Could be, as we have come to learn when the Force is involved it seems anything is possible… But it’s a loooong stretch, and I seriously doubt it…

      • Supreme Leader

        I know the Star Wars timeline, and the odds of having a 5000 year old Arcann in Force Awakens…
        But we must not forget strong force sensitives with long life-span: Yoda (900 years old) and Maz Kanata (over 1000 years old), not to mention that Snoke looks more withered than either of these 2!

        • Paulo Gomes

          As I said: could be. But it’s a long stretch. Furthermore, having a villain from a movie come from a computer game seems unlikely…

          But hey, it’s a better plot twist than anything else in KotFE…

          🙂

          • GiftoftheMagi

            You also forget carbonite freezing. If after his horrible injuries, the Outlander locks him into carbonite like what was done to him and forgotten for say…5000 years, only to be found and awakened (see what I did there), then MAYBE you got a chance.

      • York

        Valkorian is already 2000ish years old, remember he was already a Sith lord during the Great Hyperspace War, and he’s still kicking. Don’t get me wrong, i hate the idea of Snoke being Arcann, but millennia have been spanned before.

        • Paulo Gomes

          Yeah, but Valkorion switches bodies a lot, he is pretty much incorporeal, having the SAME BODY for 5000 years would be a first… But hey, at this point in time I would take anything…

          • Havik79

            No really?, that would have been so much better than the plagiarism crap they gave us in ep7

            • Paulo Gomes

              Oh yeah, it would definitely have been more interesting. Mind you, I now have full shelves of books that NEVER existed, thanks to Disney… One of them is the graphic novel, “Dark Empire”: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Empire

              Does it ring any bells? It seems “our” Emperor is not the only one to keep coming around to wreak havoc… 😉

    • Risqu’e

      It’s very unlikely. They said many times that Snoke is a “NEW” character despite everyones theories.

      • New Republic

        New character? If he wasn’t do you expect them to just tell you, and ruin a possible plot twist?
        Yes, a very powerful Force user, just sitting around, and when the empire falls he simply becomes the supreme leader of the remaining imperial troops, corrupts Luke Skywalker nephew apprentice from right under his nose, and orders the massacre of the newly formed jedi order, and forces the most powerful jedi around into exile… He is possibly new to the big screen, but that doesn’t deny the fact that he could be the oldest star wars character to date, and in my opinion he definitely shares ties with existing Star Wars characters (Valkorion, Palpatine, Plagueis, Ezra…) to have such sudden influence on imperial loyalists, immense understanding of the dark side, and knowledge of events as if he’s been there the whole time ( if you read the book, he knows every detail about the Vader/Luke duel as if he witnessed it himself)
        Snoke’s face scars alone should have a backstory, I simply cannot accept to have a random someone ruin every victory and defeat in the previous movies, just for the sake of having a sequel…

        • Michael

          You think he’s Yoda? Me too

    • Fred Garvin

      Dr. Ian Malcolm approves of your theory.

    • LeagueofZac

      ehhmm no sorry, like u said this shit is not cannon (thx god) and if u want to know who is actually snoke just read aftermath life debt (well, better read the aftermath trilogy).

      • New Republic

        He never makes an official appearance in either of these books (again with theories), plus I find SWTOR/KOTFE to be a better story than the aftermath trilogy books…

        • LeagueofZac

          all things in time, Gallius Rax is Snoke im sure; its not confirmed ye but the theory is from the books of the new cannon what are being released, while this game is non-cannon so make ur own conclusions

    • Whitedragon

      everyone knows that Snoke is Musco.. come on

    • Michael

      I think there’s a solid reason why Disney denounced this a cannon very early on.
      The swtor story is garbage.

  • Lop

    I love that the only dark side decision i made the entire time was the one decision that made Koth leave cause he was being an idiot, which makes all other decisions made irrelevant.

    • Snowskeeper

      … To be fair, the one that makes him leave involves murdering a lot of civilians.

  • Rezvi Ratul

    When i get hold of kothe im gonna make him watch as i throw out each and every member of his crew out the airlock then im gonna cut of his limbs and torture him to death its going to be long and painful. im gonna kill both of sonyas children right infront of her eyes before i kill her and as for that two bot second hand droid im gonna hunt down and melt each and every one of he so called children and melt them into scrap before i rip her apart piece by piece

    • Indrajit Banerjee

      look at you lol…. I bet you cant even look up in front of ppl , Rage harder moar here kiddo. Also message me if you’re interested in getting rekt in a pvp duel for 10min creds ktybye

      • HERDHATER

        WHAT KIND OF A DUMBASS NAME IS “Indrajit Banerjee” HE SURE AS HELL DONT WANNA GET REKT [ WHAT YOU CAN’T FUCKING SPELL WRECK TOO DAMN LAZY TO SPELL WHOLE WORD? ] WITH SOMEONE WITH A STUPID ASS NICKNAME!!!

        • Indrajit Banerjee

          omg asshole kid… mad cuz bad? My name is pretty cool anyway 😛 you can call me Indra you dumbass 🙂

    • Whitedragon

      dude.. that’s ISIS talk. don’t be a pawn

      • Don Loco

        Um yeah. That kind of dreck is everywhere, just look up some accounts of what the soldiers did to the Natives here in America. ISIS doesn’t have the choke hold on being assholes, they are just another group in a long, long line of them.

      • gog

        Actually, that sounds like something that a hardcore/crazy DS sith would do. I mean, I had a really nasty SW lady alt who probably would do just that if the game allowed for it. Unlike my main toon who would just kill them quietly and efficiently and then sneak away while everyone else wondered who killed them…

  • Kubrickian

    “This is a short mission with not much to do other than running around in Nar Shaddaa”.

    Looking forward to it?

    • Rompe Himself

      Certainly makes you wonder if even Dulfy is starting to get over SWTOR and who can blame her with how shallow this so called “expansion” has been. Most news she has to cover nowadays is about the fucking Cartel Market.

      • Whitedragon

        the cartel market is the most successful and profitable part of this game . what does that tell you.

        • deletebioware.exe

          People who are bored by the game, and stop playing it, don’t buy anything at the Cartel Market.

          • Whitedragon

            right..how many packs did you buy sub?

            • HERDHATER

              I BOUGHT OVER 9999 PACKS BUDDY!! ALL I GOT WAS A GOD DAMN SITH SEX TOY, ITS A AWESOME DECO!!!!!

              • Whitedragon

                SUB! …WE HAVE ANOTHER ONE..GET’EM

              • Don Loco

                Again…

              • gog

                It was the Defiant devastator’s vibro “sword”, wasn’t it? I recommend to avoid using any eviscerating crystals with it…

  • Don Loco

    I just watched my sis play through this chapter. Damn but I’m glad I gave up my sub a while ago, I’d be pissed to think I’ve been paying a sub all this time for that…..fail. I feel no sympathy for Arcann, none at all. Goes from bad ass to momma’s boy when things go south for him. Why do I get the feeling he’s going to be yet another companion?

    • Whitedragon

      you watched your sister ha…… lol he’s a sub everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GET’EM!!!

      • Don Loco

        Um no. She still subs to the game, I quit over six months back. Haven’t played since as nothing I’ve seen her do inspires me to log in. More HK themed dreck? More “Choices Matter! (TM)? No thanks. Think I’d rather a rusty nail be pounded into my foot. Far more entertaining.

        • Whitedragon

          you sub swtor Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

          • Don Loco

            Now you are just being a dick. Enjoy your little joys I guess.

            • Whitedragon

              lol…

            • HERDHATER

              HEY I LOVE DICKS SHUT THE HELL UP DON’T BE A HATER!!!!!!

              • Don Loco

                We all have our little problems 🙂

  • Darth-Robin

    so the big quistion
    was anyone actually emotional impacted by chapter 16? i mean that was why it was delayed to give that impact. so has that actually happend?

    • Drool Bear

      Yeah, I’m emotionally impacted to end my subscription.

    • Blech

      Yeah, I was disgusted with the game and wondered why I’m subbed and spend any time on it.

      I’m grinding DVL for the XP armor for what reason? I don’t know, I’ve already done those class stories so many times with each class I no longer what to see them.

      SOR is at the very most only worth 1 playthrough on each side, and that is stretching it. KOTFE is barely even worth 1 playthrough period. But by the time you finish DVL you’ll likely have done more than you want for that too.

      My sub runs out in about a month. I don’t think I’m coming back another time.

      • John Kosto

        SOR was pretty cool.

    • Gary

      That depends on how emotional or what kind of emotion. After defeating Arcann I really wanted to end him right there, but he was pretty pathetic there at the end so I decided not to kill him, not out of mercy mind you, just pity.

      I also didn’t shoot Senya down because I don’t consider her a traitor for wanting to save her son. I’m also a role player and my Trooper never kills helpless foes, my warrior however, if I ever take him through KOTFE, will gladly kill Arcann, but probably not Senya because he counts her as an ally.

      So emotionally impacted sure if you count pity for Arcann, with Senya just me role playing my trooper.

    • Don Loco

      I didn’t even play it and the only emotion I got was disgust.

    • Stephan

      Bad ending. Nothing Ends. And by Dark Side, how/where Comes Koth on the Gravestone?!

      • uliwitness

        “Endings, to be useful, must be inconclusive.”
        ― Samuel R. Delany

        • Michael

          I HAVE HAD IT WITH THESE MOTHERFUCKING SNAKES ON THIS MOTHERFUCKING PLANE!
          – Samuel L. Jackson

    • zolushka13

      Wouldn’t say I was emotionally impacted, by the end of it I was just left thinking, “oh is that all.”

      But I was glad to let Arcann and Senya go, I’m a sucker for redemption stories and I’ve always liked them. So I’ll mostly be tuning in to the next season just to see that happen as well as reunite with Malavai & Vector, and hopefully kill Koth.

    • uliwitness

      Yup. I found it impactful. Not Oh My I’ll Cry impactful, but it was a nice story. I gotta say KotFE doesn’t feel very Star Warsy to me, but it’s still one of those great BioWare stories.

  • Stuart Johnson

    Koth isn’t kicked out of the alliance, he leaves on his own. His suddenly reappearing makes no sense. And my sniper is going to want to execute Theron for letting Koth back on the Gravestone.

    • Shaun Salisbury

      Won’t matter because BW won’t let you.

  • carryabigstick

    No emotional impact after the investment in the story. Pretty lame ending imo.

  • Acher4

    I think maybe you could add one more ending in Guss mission.
    If you let him do what he wants, no LS or DS points, he actually manages to pass his “trial”.

  • Acher4

    I think maybe you could add one more approach in Guss’ mission.
    If you let him do what he wants, no LS or DS points, he actually manages to pass his “trial”.

  • Hunterr

    My biggest issue with this exp. Is that it took the overall mmo story feeling of all these characters and classes coexisting in the same universe and playing out along side each other and destroyed it.

    No longer can my warrior and my friends agent for example, coexist in the universe, story and plot wise we are now the same person and I don’t see how they can come back from that in a logical way.

    So ya I’m dissapointed it went from a unique mmo story that allowed shared focus on players, to a single player story that’s just about you….

  • thomas

    Don’t care,uninstalled the game after being a sub since day 1,can honestly say “battle of odessen” was worst of the 16 chapters we were offered,not paying 118 pound a year for 45 mins gameplay a month….bioware you are exploiting Star Wars fans and it’s not on…i have seen so many subs leave the game over last 12 months because of a fundamental lack of content and direction

    • Simon Belmont

      There’s still 13k+ people playing the game in North America alone on any given day. That’s still pretty incredible. You uninstalling the game isn’t going to make a difference to them. Get over yourself.

      • zolushka13

        13k is pretty actually pretty underwhelming.

        • Simon Belmont

          Being that the game has a Free2Play model? No, that’s quite impressive. WildStar has a Free2Play model and they can’t even bring in 2k players.

          • zolushka13

            Yes it is if you compare the popularity of whatever the fuck WildStar is, to the popularity of Star Wars.

            • Simon Belmont

              Star Wars in general is VERY popular yes, but SWTOR was never as popular as you seem to think it was. I’m not sure what server you play on, but Ebonhawk is still alive and thriving quite well.

          • Shaun Salisbury

            Not really when you compare it to FFXIV which is sub only and has roughly 800,000 players.

      • John Kosto

        In every situation, there will always be the asshole… Guess what, your comment makes you that guy in this thread.

        • Simon Belmont

          For telling him that him uninstalling the game won’t make a difference to BioWare or telling him he needs to get over himself? Both are true.

          Judging by some of your past comments, I can tell you’ve got a massive stuck up your ass too. Might wanna get that checked out bud.

          • John Kosto

            Well you’re not that great of a judge then. I used to defend the game and Bioware to haters that seemed to actually hate the game for no reason, but KOTFE has been horrendous since day one.

            As to your question, for telling him to get over himself. You are the one that needs to get over himself. By the way, I did get it checked out, and apparently I don’t have anything stuck up my ass. I just tell it how it is. Go play the devil’s advocate somewhere else, I don’t bite.

            • Simon Belmont

              No one is arguing that KOTFE is/isn’t horrendous, I’m not sure where you got that idea. I was simply stating that one person uninstalling and writing out a short diatribe about it doesn’t make a difference in the world. So anything you just said is completely illogical. But I mean, if you want to keep putting words into my mouth (metaphorically of course) by all means go for it. It just makes you look far more petty than what you already are.

              But I enjoy it when people like you get upset with me. That feeling of disdain I get from other people burns straight through to my soul in a way that just hurts so good.

              • John Kosto

                Lol you are funny. It takes a whole lot more than a few semi-fancy words to get me upset, but knock yourself out.

              • treYdt

                He used semi-fancy words? Are you retarded or just uneducated?

              • John Kosto

                trololololol go play somewhere else

              • disqus_z2pP0T1Lm3

                Good idea. Go play in traffic, John.

      • Paulo Gomes

        Not to be an asshole or anything, but that’s all fine and dandy, but it’s all personal opinions.

        The only thing that really matters is getting a look at this:

        http://www.torstatus.net/

        Servers barely break Standard on heavier playing hours. Don’t even try to play on lesser populated servers. I tried it, just as a personal experience, and MANY TIMES I was solo on a particular planet.

        Last time I saw Heavy or even Full servers was at KotFE launch. There’s been a steady decline over the course of the expansion. I didn’t even see a lot more people playing when they launched Chapter 16.

        Yes, there are a couple servers both on North America and in Europe that are more populated, but the idea that the game is thriving is a long way from the truth.

      • Accurate.

    • Aridan the Cyberelf™

      How old are you and when did you start playing MMO games? Your lucking to get new content unless it’s an expansion from most, like WoW.

      • Shaun Salisbury

        FFXIV releases new content every 3 months and it’s content for all player types so that’s no excuse.

  • Teddybomber87

    i didn’t get the alliance alert for him

  • zolushka13

    So when’s the next part coming out? I know it says ‘fall 2016’ but Autumn’s already passed in my part of the world.

    Also, if I’m being honest I enjoyed running around Nar Shaddaa with Blizz more than the actual chapter itself lol.

    • Shaun Salisbury

      Mid to late December.

      • zolushka13

        Thanks.

  • Zak Ember

    So, now that KOTFE is done, do you feel like it was a success? Weigh in with us on my YouTube channel!

    • Shaun Salisbury

      Nope was a clear lie from BW when it comes to choices matter.

      • guest

        Excuse me but this is forum copy-paste bullshit. Get off the bandwagon already. I’ve played the story on 2 different characters with different choices and the end result was significantly different.

        • Shaun Salisbury

          Not really as those changes are just superficial and change nothing in the grand scheme of things as KOTET shifts all those choices into the same linear story.

    • G guy of Gstudios

      i think it was great,that last battle was epic…great music,character development and just general story. I also think the cutscenes were very well made and a big improvement of vanillas.

  • Matt

    What’s after completing chapter 16? is there still possibility to upgrade base and doing star fortresses?

    • Shaun Salisbury

      Nothing other than what you could do before hand.

  • G guy of Gstudios

    thank you for posting these,Dulfy!

    i only played the last chapter 1 time,but i have been busy. Though i think that last “shield section” was very epic and a good strategy (i figured it out as soon as it shown up,but i love its concept)

  • snakedoctor

    Am I the only one to forget to use the special main hand weapon against Arcann?
    Can anyone tell me what the special abilities are? Not sure how many more alts remain to do.

  • Vixzer

    I just want to add Koth’s and Scorpion’s head to the pike…really, that is all I ask from the next expansion….

  • Szilárd Kádár

    Prequisition +1: you have to complete Little Boss (Blizz Alert) Mission also to be able to get Shining in the Darkness quest.

  • NomadicDruid

    In conversation choices, out of the 3 it appears whoever you choose to mediate on Odessen in fact disapproves rather than approves. I guess that makes sense as Vette would probably be the only good mediator there anyway and doubt she’d have much interest in doing it.

    • NomadicDruid

      Correction – It appears Torian does approve, just the other two don’t. Though this could depend on who says the line, class, faction, etc.

      • JRP

        Yeah, as it turns out Vette and Gault are best suited for the missions on Arcann’s Flagship [one is needed to take out the cannons; while the other takes down the shields] — so the Gravestone can fire on the Flagship.

        • Snowskeeper

          Negative. All three characters are equally capable of taking down the shields and guns.

  • Darryl Baker

    Just a quick typo note: “Neat the end of the fight Arcann” should be “Near the end of the fight Arcann”

  • Rodionova Nataly

    goddamit, do not say that on top of it i lose ScorpioSenya as a comp! what about all the creds, comms i spent on gifts?

    • Techne

      Yah man, I had Senya to 45 affection, I liked her in combat. We feel that pain.

  • Riley Ooi

    I’ve been wondering what your graphics settings are, Dulfy. I always wanted that slight shine on the surfaces but I never knew how to get it. If you can please tell me, I thank you.

    • frickenWaaaltah

      It might be an LOD bias of -3.00 you’re noticing; if so, you can’t change it in the game settings or even the .ini files. You’ll want to look up and get a program called Nvidia Profile Inspector or some Radeon equivalent.

      “LOD Bias” will then be under the texture filtering settings and you’ll usually find it with a positive number. I have mine set to -3.00 from the recommendations that were iirc in an old thread on the swtor forums.

      I think that’s probably what you’re looking for. It did make a sudden, dramatic difference in the look of some places, like Imperial Fleet. You can look up exactly what it is but it made some things look a lot sharper is how I’d put it.

      I found this old gamefaqs thread in my browsing history:

      http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/951199-star-wars-the-old-republic/61628417

      good luck!

  • Dr. Mike Wendell

    “Leave that to Gault – Gault approves”

    Just a fyi, it appears Gault actually disapproves and says something about him not being there to babysit.

    • Dr. Mike Wendell

      “Vette, you’re up – Vette approves”

      That’s also coming up as Vette disapproving.

  • Techne

    Damnit, this is the worst… why can’t I kill Guss for wasting my time, and his ‘Force Master’ for daring to speak to a Lord of the Sith as he does? Walking away from two dead bodies in an apartment is exactly the sort of ‘story driven’ gameplay we want, right? And seriously… Guss? I might have found him charming when I was 12, but he’s a waste of space. And doing this alert forces me to accept him? I wouldn’t have done it and left it undone had I known. Next time I’ll read ahead… spoliers are better than this dreck.

  • it seems like near the end of the fight with Arcann, i put up my shield but it still doesn’t let me move 0.o confused

    • James Ericks Prado

      same here. got the debuff Power Overwhelming preventing movement. its ridiculous.

      • James Ericks Prado
      • sentientomega

        Trust them…

        Just once I’d like to see them play this game of theirs, it’s almost as if they deliberately make this happen. I mean, Chapter 16, STORY MODE?! Because, according to the forums, veteran mode is working juuuuust fine. -.-

        Seriously, do they not want people to actually play these expansions?!

        They had better fix this yesterday! If they want ANYONE left to play the game, that is.

  • Gourmet Dining

    When is the information to be updated and corrected? For example, for leaving someone behind to mediate Aric and kaliyo, only Torian approves. Vette and Gault disapprove.

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