Cantina Tour SWTOR

SWTOR News from the NYCC Cantina

Here are some news regarding the new expansion and future content from the NYCC Cantina, including possibility of new operations in early 2017.

If you went to the Cantina and would like to contribute please leave a comment below and I will get the added in.

Special thanks to @CristiPetrarca for the following tweets

Choices & Story in KOTET

Group Content



By Dulfy

MMO guide writer and blogger. Currently playing and covering SWTOR, GW2, and TSW.

468 replies on “SWTOR News from the NYCC Cantina”

eres hoping they decide to put story off to the side for a while after 5.0 drops. This jan livestream will be hilarious if they only announce a “new op in 6.0”

To be fair to EAware, they’re stringing you along to January where they can tell you “We’re working on more group content”, you know that won’t be Ops, just like every fucking time.

oh, without a doubt. tbh I’m expecting them to say “6.0 is never coming we’re working on a new MMO, its nice that you all were expecting raid content but if you look closely we never actually said it would be in swtor”

I didn’t make it in today, becasue what the hell happened with traffic into the city, its worse then usual???, but did anyone ask if they are planning on making any adjustments to preferred experience? seeing as the bulk of quest rewards now comes in boxes… boxes that f2p accounts and preferred accounts cannot receive >_> and before “pay you cheapskate” I was early acess pre-order, with digital deluxe upgrade back when it was still $20, pre-ordered both Makeb and SoR and had mostly ( prior interruption was about a week long and then I resubbed again) uninterrupted subscription up until last month. I also bought cartel coin packs, mostly for pets that came with them but the point is – chances are I paid waaay more to the game that vast majority of the people making a comment of “pay you cheapskate”

aaanyways /end rant the point is, some restrictions are understandable, but restricting quest rewards, especially when those quest rewards are a primary way of getting gear upgrades at later levels is just petty and seeing as they put more and more quest rewards into boxes… it would be nice if they removed that particular petty restriction. but.. since I didn’t have a chance to ask them myself about it… did they say anything at all? I’m wondering in part becasue they changed subscriber to premium.

not enough to sub continuously when there’s lack of new interesting content to play through, at the time when I can be playing other games. I’m willing to pay when its worth it to keep paying. and I still like the game AND star wars, even if I’m slowing down playtime to a crawl. but honestly I don’t even fucking know why I’m explaining myself to people like you who have nothing constructive to say. all I want to know is if they are planning on making what supposed to be a legitimate way of playing the game (seeing as its advertised as play for free now and all) slightly less petty in its restrictions.

It’s really sad that we’re relying on tweets from fans rather than getting direct online responses from devs

Sarcastic Agreement: Right. Because they don’t have lives or anything. They are just mindless drones to do our bidding at the drop of a hat. They’re definitely not still at NYCC doing things and taking care of business at all. They were birthed to cater to our every whim in the virtual world.

You do realise as community managers it’s literally their JOB to communicate these things to us and not offload it to a fan right?

Correction: That doesn’t mean they must give up their entire life and work until they drop dead to please every single one of us. That’s what you’re saying. That kind of thinking is exactly the thing you see in movies where the whole world is led by an evil dictator that works their subjects literally to death. No breaks. Serve the master. No outside life. Serve the master. When you see that, you think it’s so horrible. You think that’s fantasy. But here you are saying the very beliefs that that evil dictator has.

Defensive Statement: They have had an exceptionally busy week. Give them a break. They have much work yet to do. But until then, they deserve a break. Everyone deserves a break from work. They’re not your slaves to wait on you hand and foot.

To be fair they’ve had literally months to prepare statements and publish them, they can even have made posts and had them unhidden when the event started. We’ve all been told repeatedly, “We can’t talk about that topic until October 7th!” You’d think they would have thought with the same questions coming up they’d have pre-prepared answers to FAQ.

This is just the community managers being lazy. Last cantina was the same. Almost all the information came from fans posting the answers to what they’d asked the devs. You rarely see them publishing a “This is what was answered at the cantina yesterday” It’s now been 24 hours since the event and i can guarantee you there won’t be an official recap of all the answered questions even in a weeks time

Query: You do realize that there is only ONE community manager, right? That is Eric.

Informative Mockery: And in case your faulty meatbag sense of time has been completely eradicated due to living completely cut off from the rest of the world in a dark room deep underground, today is SATURDAY. It’s also a HOLIDAY WEEKEND. Even *if* they were going to post any answers to questions, you would have to wait until TUESDAY at the earliest. It is most likely that, just like last time, they will have more answers to questions during a live stream at a later date.

“This is just the community managers being lazy.”

Correction: There is only 1 person on the community relations staff now: Eric Musco. The other people on the staff moved to other jobs within the company. (Tait and Amber are producers; Courtney is a writer.) They need to have at least 3-4 people on their community staff.

No comment at all about dead and dying servers? Seriously – nothing mentioned here is going to turn anything around for any length of time and a large percentage of servers have very low populations.

The saddest news is the ambivalent “yeah, we know” response to people wanting a way to finish the Binocular/Seeker Droid arcs.

I was there and just got back from it. Nothing much to add, but I can definitely confirm all the tweets above.

Darin De Paul (voice of Valkorion) and Natasha Loring (voice of Vaylin) were also there and were recording customized greetings for people. Both were absolutely the nicest people you could ever meet.

They’re still trying to string operations players along. They MAY release an op in early 2017 but they don’t know yet? Why not say “Yes, we will be releasing an operation in 2017 and we’re aiming for Q1 but the timing isn’t set yet.”

Instead the way they said it leads me to believe there is no operation being developed and they’re going to decide if they want to do one later. And should they decide to do one later that requires months of development time, so it’s definitely not coming out “early 2017.” SMH.

Cautionary: Take care to not let cynicism guide you. Things are not always as they appear. Going on “seems like” and “could be” as a basis for believing something isn’t true is a dark and stressful path.

They can’t say they’re going to do something and then not do it (aside from the fact they have never done that, it would hurt them like we wouldn’t believe). It would be financial and business suicide to do so.

The unfortunate reality is that people are complaining all the time. They complain if the devs say something. They complain if the devs don’t say something. People will disbelieve them at all times. Those of us with rational thought must filter out the morons with reason and rationality to see what’s truly going on.

A legitimate developer would have at least an internal 1-year roadmap, but should really have something closer to a 5 year plan. At this point they are either making and have already budgeted the resources toward an operation that’s coming out in 6 months or less or they’re not. There is no maybe. My guess with about 99% certainty is they are not.

Now with that said, they could genuinely just suck at development planning and don’t know if they’re going to make an operation next year. Maybe they’re waiting to see sub numbers from KotET. But then it definitely isn’t coming in the “beginning of 2017,” at the earliest it would be mid-2017.

Suggestion: Let’s hope for the best then. I’d rather hope and give them the benefit of the doubt based on past experience over five years rather than assume the worst based on only the last few months.

Correct. ME: Andromeda has been in the works since 2012. It’s a game with a new engine, Multiplayer, across several platforms, not just pc. You don’t do that in a year or two.

They know VERY WELL there are no Ops programmed for early 2017. Anyone that believes they do has a serious naivety issue…

Why not just say they’re releasing an op? Because they’re not releasing one.

Why not just say they’re NOT releasing one? Because people will instantly unsubscribe.

they are focusing on DvL & the new server DvL shift and Galactic Command.
Dressing room bug: They are aware of it, but it takes time and engineers to fix it & they have to prioritize
What the heck do those 2 things mean?.

I honestly wish everyone could go to one of these at least once, it gives you a much different perspective to see the devs and how passionate they still are for the game, but also that they’re you know, human, and they can only do so much with the resources they have. They aren’t not putting in (insert your preferred content here) because they’re mean and lazy, it’s because they are only so many devs with so much of a budget. But everyone I talked to was super friendly and super happy to engage with the players and share that love for the game.

Oh right… Because there are no resources for this game… All the while Mass Effect: Andromeda hits the stands early in 2017:

So please, we know they are human, they are very nice and they love us all… There are resources, EA is one of the biggest, if not THE biggest shark in the ocean. There’s no more content BECAUSE THEY DON’T WANT TO DO MORE CONTENT.

Correction: It’s not the same group. That isn’t how game developer resources work. The SWTOR part of BioWare (BioWare Austin, not the Mass Effect/KotOR BioWare) is allotted x amount of resources. They can only do y with x amount. That’s all there is to it.

Query: Would it be nice if E.A. funneled more into SWTOR? Are there resources that could be funneled into SWTOR?
Answer: Yes. It would. Yes. There are. But E.A. is more about making that quick big profit more than long-term investments. If they funneled more into SWTOR, they could hire more and really churn out big chunks of everything. They can present to E.A., but if E.A. says “no”, then that’s that. And it sucks.

If they can’t convince EA to give them more resources with the biggest IP out there then there is an issue with them…

Correction: Not necessarily. If E.A. says “no”, there’s nothing more to it. Even if SWTOR was doing 20x better, if E.A. says “no”, there’s nothing more to it. Not for a while anyhow. They can’t do like players do (which doesn’t do any good anyhow) and post all over the place in all the right and wrong places about it and say “we need more”, or have a meeting whenever they want to get more. No is no. End of story. Especially if E.A. wants that quick profit over the long term.

Reminder: Over a year ago (maybe two years), if memory servers me right, they did get a boost in resources and funding after doing well. They were able to hire on more people to develop things. They even moved buildings to accommodate it. But that was also when E.A.’s biggest quick profit games flopped.

Clarification: E.A. sees us as money dispensers. When we dispense our money towards the quick short term item over the long term, they will funner to that. If we have control over ourselves, not quickly grab the short term, and show big support for the long term ones, they will funnel towards that. I’m not saying don’t buy the short term ever. Some of those are part of favorites for some. But stopping support for the long term tells E.A. that they’re not profitable.

Conclusion: Stopping financial support for SWTOR tells E.A. that it’s not profitable. Spending money on the short lived FPS (just an example) games tells E.A. that those are more profitable. Therefore resources are going to be funneled to short quick profit sales instead of SWTOR. It really is that simple. E.A. has been the problem for SWTOR since launch day.

Recitation: It sucks, but that is the way it is.

Opinion: I think they’d be better off getting away from E.A. and teaming up with a better company that understands long term profit and is closer to the players far better than E.A. is like Blizzard. But since E.A. owns the Star Wars gaming license, they can’t.

i still dont get why a “star wars” game is on a budget very idiotic and shows they dont have much faith in the game so why should i

Because Mass effect is almost as big as Star Wars, and they can dick around with the IP as much as they want and do not have to pay Disney a red cent.

Someone might put two and two together and see that the resources they might have for TOR are being put into ME:A.

I don’t think that the people present at the NYC Cantina event are responsible for what type of content this game will have. I was there too, and yes, they were super friendly and nice, and you could tell that they’re on the same team as us. Zero operations since almost 2 years ago is unacceptable, and it’s not because I happen to want that “preferred content”, it’s because it’s a basic component of this game. You go to level 65, you’ve done all stories, all quests, all missions, all flashpoints, what are you gonna do then? If there is no replayable intersting endgame content (and there is none atm), then people don’t feel the need to login… it’s simple as that.

I’d have more sympathy if they didn’t repeatedly BS on the forums, coming out with shit that just isn’t ever true.

> see the devs and how passionate they still are for the game

You are aware that the people being sent to promo events are getting paid to be there and make their company/product look as good as possible (this includes displaying passion).

“Dressing room bug: They are aware of it, but it takes time and engineers to fix it & they have to prioritize [the Cartel Market reskins].”

Someone actualy posted thier office mate. They don’t have much manpower for running the game. They do get help when working on Xpacs, but between that they have minimal crew to do stuff.

I was there, third year in a row. Darin De Paul and Natasha Loring are amazing and so adorable. I took a photo with them, and they were very nice and friendly to everyone.

The answers and the feedback for the future of the game were disappointing, as expected, unfortunately. I actually like Eric Musco and Ben Irving and the creative director (forgot his name). They seem like really cool people, and they also seem like they care a lot for this game. Sadly, I don’t think they are the ones responsible for the direction of the game.

When they were answering the much anticipated question about operations, you could tell that they wanted to have better answers for us, and they kept on talking about 8 player content and how they are definitely getting back into that at some form, but it felt like they didn’t get the “ok” from someone else. Goes on to confirm that since Bioware realized that casual players are the ones who bring the revenue, this game has to appeal to them more.

It was a great experience nevertheless, I had a good time, they were giving coupons for free drinks and a few other gifts (t-shirt, poster, book) so kudos to them.

Of course! If the boss upstairs doesn’t want you to do something, you don’t do it. Period! I ask this simple question: has anyone actually read the Terms of Agreement for TOR? Tell me, in all the print where do you see the name “Bioware”?

I’ll answer that one: NOWHERE! It’s EA that calls the shots, they say jump, BW says “how high”! I have absolutely no doubt in my mind those guys want to do better, more and faster… They can’t. And so comes the “resources” argument. That’s bull. They’re putting out a new game that will almost surely have Multiplayer with a new engine, across multiple platforms. Bioware doesn’t have the resources for a simple Op? In a already existing game? No man, that does not compute for me. I understand their dilemma, but it’s not as simple as “no resources”.

Yes, that’s Natasha Loring. And if I wasn’t accompanied by a super hot girl, I would totally talk more about her now. She is definitely very very hot xD

Hey, leave the man alone. He’s around hot girls, he plays TOR, he listens to Metallica… He’s ok in my book, if he says the girl is hot, hot the girl is!

Pleased Statement: Lots of cool stuff to look forward to. I am eager for it all.

Contemplative: Perhaps releasing the story in bigger chunks will allow them more time to work on Ops.

Admission: Though that is simply based on how I imagine it will work. All expectations are put aside until further data is received.

47, are there plans to include you in the game? I always liked you better than 51 or 55… I prefer originals to copies…

Correction: HK 1 reporting for duty. I am pleased to inform you that I’m the model that originated the droid rebellions. Viva la robolution! Get him, my claptrap comrades!

It’s laughable now at this point. Oh well, hope to see a lot of you guys in the Revelation Online cbt this month. That game looks so damn fun! And has what I want for endgame.

“Might” in BioWare’s vocabulary means “no, we won’t” basically. In other words – no new raids, thank you very much.
From other news: “people are asking for solo mode Shroud & Seeker quests” – that’s the kind of attitude that brought this game to the enormous Single Player MMO experience we have nowadays (among other things). Stop whine about MMO games requiring to have a group to finish the content for Pit’s sake!

3 years after they have been released, it would make perfect sense to convert Shroud and Seeker quests into solo mode quests. That way people would actually complete them in alternative toons. That has nothing to do with normal group content.

Fuck off. The group requirements for that quest are ridiculous and make it near enough impossible to get it done. Only a retard would think a solo quest requiring a group to complete is a good idea.

I have mixed feelings about that one, I tell you. Yeah, you are right that it’s a really bad idea from an era of the game that encouraged group playing.

On the other hand… Some of my best memories of playing this game outside Ops are with those quests, particularly the Shroud quest. Getting a group going, not having a healer, the Sorcerer respeccing to a sub-par healer and doing it by the skin of our teeth… It was a great feeling, and I gained 3 friends that day. Of course, every single one of them has now left the game…

But yeah, never mind my stupid reminiscing of another era in this game. Ultimately I think people are in the right about getting it done solo. The Seeds thingy you can do with 2 people, I never managed to solo it, but I would recommend against doing that. It takes forever and a day… The Shroud you cannot do without 4 people, as you very well know. And it’s even worse now if you want to complete the Achievements for the Star Fortresses, because you MUST have a character that completed that quest to find the probe…

I just remember it being a ballache to get people to do it. Difficulty was always in getting people together and coordinated rather than struggling with combat, but even so story content (particularly story content that starts as solo content) should never be gated behind group content. They’re two entirely different playstyles/types of people.

Having ops/group content with a self-contained story is fine, but such as the Seeker/Macro missions and Oricon, it just spoils the entire experience and does nothing to encourage people to raid.

The lack of a GF option makes Seeker/Macro makes the situation even worse; last time I ran this I had to bribe three people to group with me.

Yep, that’s the really bad part. On some toons I remember taking DAYS to get a group going, we had 3 people, or 2. Standing at the Fleet, spamming the mission on General Chat for HOURS… Finally calling it a day, without any actual playing done… It could be a monumental pain in the arse.

Oricon I could always solo the H2. It was VERY difficult at level, but with the kind of gear I had on me it made things easier hehehehe…

By Oricon I meant the ops. Even with bad gear there were tricks to solo the H4 (LoS mostly), but the ops? No chance.

Next time I’d suggest offering a bribe when you need a group though. It really saves a lot of time :/

Oh of course! I didn’t mean I could solo the Ops looool… But hey, one of these days we might just be talking about that… 😉

No reason they couldn’t give us the option imho. No rewards, just to see the story and wrap up the associated quests. Raiders don’t lose anything, story/solo players can clear their journals of quests they will never complete otherwise.

We certainly have enough comps to make some sort of 8-man group… Why the hell not??? I’m all for it.

the biggest problem with seeker droid group quests is that they are non repeatable content that just about requires all of your group to be on the same leg of the VERY long quest chain. all other group content was no issue, I rarely had trouble finding groups for Aurora’s canon for instance. but it was 1. repeatable, 2. didn’t require you to complete a long quest chain to be able to do it – you could just jump right in.

Theoretica kinda came close, but it also became soloable soon after, so..

and speaking of Aurora’s canon. all they really need to do, to make seeker droid missions soloable? is remove the timer/requirement for several people to click at the same time and adjust health of the mobs. that’s it. they HAVE done it with other group quests already, INCLUDING Aurora’s canon. the fact that they still haven’t? is confusing to me

I doubt it’ll ever happen to be honest. BW aren’t very good at acknowledging when players want something; they’re even worse at actually doing something once they have acknowledged it.

I understand making old stuff single-player. It’s hard to find groups who want to do it. But making the main content single player? That’s gross.

No solution for the dead PvP servers? Also didn’t they say they’d possibly get rid of the warzone limit for preferred accounts?

I did like monthly episodes! Most successful TV shows have episodes. People don’t like TV shows? That’s new to me.

1: People would rather watch all episodes in one go rather than wait week for each episode.
2: TV shows are usually released weekly, i’ve seen like two biweekly shows in my life, but no monthly shows. Month is simply too long.
3: Waiting month for 15-30 min of content (if you watch cutscenes, rest is just mindless spam of one skill, cus using anything else is just not worth the trouble) is a joke, with TV shows you wait a week for 40 min cutscene 😛

So yeah, ppl like TV shows, but monthly epizodes in TOR are nothing alike.

$15 for 144 minutes of cutscenes? Successful for BW/EA perhaps. I can already see the subscription count dropping even more. RIP #SWTOR

Hahaha! Without monthly episodes, KOTET is 9 chapter and that’s it. Well done noisy forum moaners, complainung about everything.

Do you even read? Not monthly, but there will be groups of episodes released, so no, there won’t only be 9 chapters…

3 chapters every 3 monts, 6 chapters every 6 months. Thats the same like 1 chapter every monthy, just holding stuff back for 2 or 5 months.


Well, BW counts star fortresses and eternal championship as group content too, so I’m not very hopeful now (especially since it’s 1-4)

Well, I would count group content as something I can’t do solo, so the Star Fortresses and the Eternal Championship definitely do not count in my book…

Galactic Command, sounds just like the way WoW has it with garrison champion missions(or class hall based on the new Exp) where you have a command table and you send your “Champions” out on missions that are listed and they return in several hours/days/etc with items of some sort. atleast that is what it sounds like initially.

Don’t think so. First of all we already have that for crafting and also if you read a bit further you’d have seen that Uprisings are part of it, which is content for up to 4 players and the devs commented it will comprise various parts of the game. Doesn’t sound like sending out your character’s companions to me.

Always funny. BW “realised” we are in a binge watch area…what was their first clue? Other MMOs that bring out stories in one go? DVD box sets? Netflix? Nope…BW’s gotta do it themselves to realise the rest of the world probably did all this for a reason. It does make me laugh. If they’d just said we tried it and it didn’t work for everybody so we’re gonna change back, it would’ve made sense and I wouldn’t have to wonder if these guys are really oblivious or just don’t get they don’t need an excuse for everything. Some stuff just doesn’t work out. It’s ok.

Anyone would have thought the feedback BioWare gained from SoR prelude and Ziost would have made them realise that tiny monthly “bits” were a bad idea.

I think Ben Irving is a complete moron and is completely wrong, we don’t live in a Binge-watch era… he’s just too proud to admit the content is too small for somebody to sit on for a month or longer.
I can create a bucket list of the top of my head on things that could make the content far more enjoyable and they don’t even take the time. The hell were you expecting? 24 re-runs to take longer than a day when the content is literally less than 1 hour long in accumilated play time? Give me a break

My point is, for a content creator to bullshit about living in a “Binge-watch” era, they’ve done nothing to but encourage it themselves. It’s just a testament to their own fucking ignorance, and validity that SWTOR is beyond saving, if there was any doubt.. it’s completely gone knowing the devs have nothing left to offer but more binge-watch monotony

I think we do live in a binge watch era but you are also correct: there still isn’t enough content. Not only that but how did they not realize how ppl consume content these days anyway? Does nobody at BWA have Netflix?

So not even the slightest word/mention on Cross-server or Server-merger/Megaserver resolutions?
The PvP servers are *Dead*. My own home-server “the Progenitor” is dying out.

What is this? Milk it untill it is completely Dead?
On goes the epic-fail saga of “Star Wars; Knights of the Eternal Cartel Packs”….

Honestly If I can kill companions I will do it just for the sake of clearing up companion list, a lot of useless shitheads that clump up my UI.

Same as with HK-55. Never know if he might be resurrected.

Plus, inquisitors can get him back through their terminal (breaking story-continuity, though).

Ugh… Hk-55 did get resurrected. You got him as a sub reward for January if I’m not mistaken.

I’ve waited a very, very, very long time to kill Malavai Quinn. I will take great pleasure in seeing the light extinguish from his dull eyes while I force choke the life out of him. I also hope we get to hunt down Doctor Lokin, he is living on borrowed time for what he did.

I subscribed just to get Vette. I would BUY THE GAME ALL OVER AGAIN just to have the pleasure of seeing the life escape from him as I slowly Force-Choke him…

SWTOR in itself isn’t canon.
Honestly, the canon is crap that I don’t care about.

Lol data mined information is as credible as it gets as it’s just data it has no motivation to be false so denying it mean you just can’t accept the reality of the situation.

Oh silly me. Of course datamining something that isn’t finished reveals everything. Besides you still haven’t shown me your source, so whatever you say I’ll just consider to be pure BS untill you do. That’s how reality works.

The story is done that’s why the data miners have released all the story chapters conversations and objectives so not sure why you would think story wouldn’t be done with only a month and a half to go till release and people on the closed pts testing those chapters.

“Solo mode for Shroud & Seeker quests: They are aware that people are asking for this.”

Translation: Oh yeah, that again. WE KNOW ABOUT IT! But we don’t care. STOP ASKING ABOUT!

I just hope there is more content in this xpac. I found the last xpac to be really light. Each chapter only took a few hours really.

each chapter took a few hours? were u drunk while attempting to play? because i never experienced a chapter that took longer than 20minutes tops

i agree. Afer about chapter 3, those next 6 or so chapters just whizzed right by … i felt kinda cheated how fast they went. EACH CHAPTER SHOULD TAKE AT LEAST A FULL DAY to complete if not longer but hey …. they don’t care.

Knights of the old republic
Knights of the fallen empire
Knights of the eternal empire

FFS Bioware, you have some talented writers, at least try to be original for once.


Knights of the DEAD VIDEO GAME.
Knights of the FALSE MMO.
Knights of IGNORANT Bioware Austin (they never listen to players and i had this confirmed YESTERDAY by an attendee at NYC Comic Con who went here and had a LOT of 1-on-1 time with the producers and staff) 🙁

I’m quite impressed that they manage to create a significant chunk of content, put it live and spend a year or so working on it, before they realise people don’t want it.

Most companies, not just game developers, have a process in place to green light ideas before investing in them. BioWare should consider implementing something like that.

So, there is no new content. No solution for problems.
So its 9 new chapters, where one will take 15min (3-5min of playing , rest talking)
So level 70, again rescale all FPs & OPS up to 70 (wow, hope they fix bugs?)
There si what im goin to do about this exp … stay in WoW, Legion is 100x better then this shit.
I can watch all story on YT for free 🙂
BTW the trailer, the new one epic trailer is just video of same story Sanya tells you at the end of chapter 9, or im wrong ? 😀

Same story yeah, although she massively understates what happened when she tells you about it. She says they never agreed on how the children should be raised.

Turns out it wasn’t a late-night argument while the kids were upstairs sleeping :’)

Loooool… I can just see it: Mommy and daddy Valkorion sit on their sofa late at night watching the soap opera…

“Honey, I know how you think about all this, but we REALLY should send Vay to a nice private school for Force-sensitives…”

“Woman, don’t bother me. You know what I think about those places…”

“Here we go again… You think YOU should train her don’t you??? I don’t want our daughter growing up decimating entire planets Val!”

“And what’s wrong with that??? Didn’t it make ME who I am today??? Or am I suddenly a monster? Why are you with me then? Because of the money???”

“There’s no reasoning with you. I rest my case. Go ravage another planet if it makes you feel better…”

You are wrong, there is plenty of new content, is just content that you don’t care about. But other people will.
You express your opinion about the game and compare with other, i will do the same: after playing WoW for a weekend i uninstalled, for me that game is a pile of shit with endless grind making you do the same thing over and over to get a new shinny.

Lol, really… It’s called stop paying for the product, that’s it. Like any other service product that exist.

Well apparently you needed it. You can’t file a class action lawsuit (at least one that will go anywhere or any lawyer would back) just because you don’t like the new content. That’s called consumer choice.

That is next to impossible if you browse the Terms of Agreement you agreed to when you started playing the game…

Looool… Of all the things I could wack off to, that is VERY LOW on my priority list… Anyways, I got mine, don’t need yours…

This is what a lot of people asked for… more story content. This is the reality of high quality, voice acted, dialog tree driven story content. It’s far more expensive to produce than generic MMO (relatively speaking trash content). A WoW style instance or raid is far cheaper to produce than a chapter of story content here. Unfortunately due to the grind nature of such generic MMO content it has high replayability, meaning it’s not only cheaper than BW style story content but provides many more hours of entertainment. There’s a reason people sink far more hours repeating the same MMO content over and over and will run out of single player game content.

With that all said there are different players who want different things, even different desires by the same player satisfied differently by the different content.

There are many players who don’t care about Ops. They just want the story content to keep going. Others want more ops or high end group content that they can grind over and over, basically typical MMO fair. Again some want both.

Personally I’ve stopped carrying about high end MMO grind content probably a decade ago (in EQ). I dabble but not much more. I *much* prefer more content like this, the story content.

With that said I think they could balance their efforts a bit better. Though of course sometimes if you try to please everyone you end up pleasing no one, so maybe it’s better they give up on being a competitive typical MMO and just keep focusing on what makes this game unique, the story content. Remember many players asked for a focus on this story content for a long time before KotFE…

Remember just because you aren’t happy with the content being provided doesn’t mean other non-vocal players aren’t. I keep paying my sub even when I don’t play because I want more story content, while my wife likes story content but also was pretty active in raiding.

BW style story content is expensive for much fewer hours of much higher quality gameplay than typical low quality MMO grind (but provides many hours for much less cost).

The other challenge of focusing on single player style story content is unlike a new single player game they only can sell to existing or returning players, this means the player base to fund the content is much smaller than a typical single player game (say a KOTOR 3).

With that said I enjoy the persistent nature of Old Republic and being able to enjoy single player style story content.

Sure it was, it was far superior (considering story content) to any other MMO out there, period. Again based on story, dialog, voice acting, etc. Heck WoW 1-50 you will barely have random voice clips, mostly just text, no voiced dialog choices, very very few cutscenes, etc etc…

If you don’t like BW style story content then this is not the MMO for you and never was.

See… That is the problem right there. You cannot state things that are not true. This WAS an MMO with group content. You have what? 10 Operations now? Pvp? Galactic Starfighter? That’s not solely story-driven “kind-of” MMO. That’s an MMO if I ever saw one.

If they planned to change that and give us some sort of Single-Player, online game thing that’s their prerogative.

It is OURS to complain about it. We were playing an MMO with Endgame content, with REPLAY VALUE. Not a story that has ZERO replay value. If and when you can repeat the story on the same toon I’ll rest my case. Rolling another toon to see if the answer I gave someone in chapter 347 will have an impact on Chapter 1563 is NOT replay value. I know. I did this expansion on 10 or 11 toons. It burned me out COMPLETELY.

See… I didn’t say the things you said I said. Did you read my post? I never said it wasn’t an MMO and didn’t have group. I never said it was only story driven content. Again read my post and please don’t put words into my mouth. All I said is that before KoTFE many players were asking for *more* story content. I never said people didn’t want *any* generic MMO content.

Yes you can complain, I can too… but please don’t make up things I never said. Unfortunately many people act like their own opinions are the *only* ones (not suggesting this is you). I don’t, I realize some people value grindy end game MMO content more than myself (again like my wife), but there are plenty of people like me that value the story content far more.

There are a lot of MMOs out there, people should choose the ones that focus on their type of content and if MMOs shift the player should shift too.

I feel bad that people who want more grindy MMO content aren’t getting it, my wife being one of them, she was grinding most of the ops quite a bit until a couple months ago.

But you’re absolutely right on a couple of points there. Yes, no other MMO out there has this attention to story. That’s obvious. And most of it is great. I WANT more story. If by any chance this turned into windowed text conversations with NPC’s I would be right here bitchin’ and moanin’ about it.

And yes, if the game shifts the players should shift too. I have. Problem is, i didn’t want to. THAT’S what saddens me.

This game survived a MAJOR blunder when it became f2p. I honestly don’t believe it will survive a second one. But here’s hoping it will.

Well, there’s GW2. While base story is nowhere near the quality of base TOR, and HoT was somewhat of a letdown, I really enjoyed Living world Season 2 and like what they made in Season 3 for now. I definetely like it more then KOTFE.

I tried GW2. Didn’t do it for me. The only game that has lore that makes some sense to me other than TOR is ESO. I played all those Elder Scrolls games, and it doesn’t feel “alien” to me. So, that’s where I’ll spend my gaming time. Nothing against GW2, I just made no sense of it. Not the game’s problem, just me…

+Фролов Денис

GW2 is a good game, I enjoyed it. I need to go back to it some day. I’ve started playing Wildstar and have found the action like combat rewarding, also amazing housing system.

As you point out Paulo nothing else out there compares to the story content of TOR. Honestly TOR has spoiled me to some extent on my expectations of other MMOs.

I beta tested ESO but wasn’t too impressed. I’ll probably pick it up on the next sale though since I like the art style and am mostly a fan of Bethesda games (love hate relationship).

sto (star trek online) has a pretty dam good story and they do voice overs and the cutscenes better to,

STO also has space content worthy of the name. But their ground combat is an atrocity that was slapped in as an after thought.

I suspect we actually agree on most things, other than what we want most out of it. I personally would prefer them to focus a -bit- more on typical MMO type content, though again there’s a risk of trying to please everyone and pleasing no one.

The reality is there’s a reason Old Republic is the only single player quality story driven MMO. It was an experiment by Bioware. Before f2p people burned through the content and left. Every since launch they’ve had difficulties balancing the sometimes mutually exclusive demands of providing MMO content and story driven content. Even when I don’t play I still pay my sub because I want the game to keep going even if I’m not sure it’s sustainable.

Another disagreement we’ll have is that going f2p was a major blunder. You realize that before going f2p the game was well on its way to dying. It bled subs and had no reason to believe they’d get a burst of new subs. After going to f2p numbers of players increased and the revenue rapidly increased. This game would likely be dead if it didn’t go f2p.

The reality is things always change. I miss the prime time days of Everquest, when it had enough of a population to fill out all levels of content. Those days are gone, the game has changed and the player base has changed too. Games aren’t the only thing that changes, the players do too.

Noooo… Bad wording on my part: the blunder was not going f2p! The blunder was the guys at Bioware thinking that they had enough content to keep people subscribed. Well, in any “normal” MMO they would be right on the money.

What I remember is that is was SO GOOD people BURNED through the material. Hell, I burned my way through lv 50 like the world was gonna end the next day! Most people weren’t patient enough to wait for new Endgame content. I was. I KNEW there was going to be great material from these guys. And I was right. The best parts of this game came in that period… Well, for me at least.

This time it’s different. I don’t see them gearing up to deliver MY kinda content. Which is sad, but hey… Life is usually a less than fair deal…

Ahh ok, that makes far more sense. Sorry for misunderstanding. I agree. f2p saved the game (as much as some gamers hate on it).

You’re right about burning through it. TOR launched Dec 20th 2011. I had two weeks off from work and maxed out a character in those two weeks. Was great fun, but in two weeks I was at end game and little content.

Honestly in hindsight making a typical MMO TOR and a separate KOTOR 3 might’ve been the better move. With that said I love the appearance gear, housing, mounts, and the persistent nature of things in it’s current form. It certainly makes me feel more attached to it than KOTOR.

the problem in general with tor is once youve done the stories theres fuckall to do after and you end up logging off, SWG i could practically live in there back in the day TOR is just so bland and the focus on the stories is shit for long term. I sure miss swg it had it all say that

SWG? That piece of shit with no content at all beside shooting a few wild animals? AND YOU ARE HERE COMPLAINING TOR HAS NO GROUP CONTENT?

Wow you went FULL RETARD.

not sure what swg you played but it wasnt the same one i did. i could spend hours and says in swg tor i couldnt stay more then a 1/2 in tor at a time it just got boring as hell sounds like you went full fanboi lol

I think that’s the point, Balance. Had they released KOTFE with a new full operation and then dropped one in say June and another one this January it would have been universally praised and the still surviving servers wouldnt be littered with dead guilds.

I find the story and new characters cliched and cheesy, too many skytroopers, too many companions. But its much better than the story content we got on makeb and for SOR. (Dread master arc was much better though).

But two whole expansions and nothing challenging to kill? Lame. Might as well fill my quickbars with different companion gifts for all the use they are.

I actually it was. Up through SoR it was a great game. ever since they started this no end game content episode bullshit its been down hill. but maybe you haven’t been here since launch like a lot of us. Voice acting was great. remember when your character had one? If i recall correctly the game cost the same when it had content as it does now with no content.

Maybe you’re just a fanboi an will defend them no matter what they do. This has definitely turned into the game for fanbois

We can agree with that first part then. Nothing else on the market compares to that story content. Even the content after SoR still is far superior to the low quality (form a story aspect) of content in other MMOs.

For the record I’ve played this game since beta, so yes I’m aware of the content throughout the entire history lol.

I’m not a fanboy (I refuse to spell it “fanboi” since I’m not 12 lol), I play other MMOs. I’ve been playing MMOs since MUDs. I played Ultima Online, I beta tested Everquest. Since then I’ve played a good portion of most other MMOs. Like any mature consumer if I don’t like the content being provided I move to a different product and sometimes will leave my feedback. I also realize that I’m not the only type of consumer so even if I don’t like the direction a game goes many others may in fact like it.

You can complain all you want, nothing wrong with that, but when you call for a class action lawsuit you reveal your maturity level.

Nothing else compares to the story content? Lol. It was true when SWTOR was launched. Look at GW2. Look at FF14. Even Bless(PvP oriented game) has a good different main stories for races. Lol, ofc nothing else compares, FF14’s devs give people big patches every 3 months that contain more content than BW gave players in a year with KotFE itself. If you so expirienced player and can’t understand that SWTOR failed with their main positive side, – story cause a) other MMOs have more story and better b) SWTOR can’t give players good story anymore, – so you are fanboi that couldnt accept the truth

Well, too bad Bioware themselves told that story content is the cheapest to produce…

And I agree with Michael. 1-50 class stories intertwined with planet, FP and Ops arcs were damn impressive. This is nowhere near it in quality and quantity. It’s hardly near RotHC.

Link or there’s no reason to believe you.

Voice acting, writing, multiple dialog choices (meaning more voice acting), setting up the cut scenes and multiple scripted events, etc. Far more expensive than setting up things like a raid where people will rinse and repeat 10+ times to grind out gear.

This was always the concern with Old Republic… that BW style story content would be more expensive and produce far few hours of playable content compared to the typical low quality MMO grind.

You obviously have no reason to believe me. I don’t have time to surf through all of their interviews from the start of the game, but it was there. They were asked if stories were expensive to produce, and answered that they actually were the cheapest, with group content being most expensive. And I doubt much changed since then.

Voice acting in games is dirt cheap – reason for VA boycott not so long ago. Especially if you take the lazy way out of it and do “KOTOR-style” bullshit. Writing isn’t something horribly expensive either – it’s just text after all. Setting up cutscenes is more expensive, but isn’t that difficult either – they have many pre-set moves they use all the time. Scripts? Lol. Please, what scripts? “If trigered – spawn 10 skytroopers?”. I can write that in my sleep. More importantly, all of those things are done once and then never revisited.

What REALLY takes money are 2 things – coding and game design. And slight bit of modeling.

Raids often require new models to be made – and they often can’t be reused somewhere else, unlike story models. Lana was made once and used how many times now?

Raids take more coding as well. Becouse new bosses often mean new mechanics, and those mean new code and, more importantly, further debugging and patching. If you can’t tell by amount of bugs present – it’s nightmare job in terms of difficulty. And raid scripts get far more inticate than story ones.

And worst of all – game design. You think raids are just made? They are calculated, from beginning to end. How many damage should boss deal? How long is enrage timer? What mechanics can we add, and can those mechanics be possibly implemented? How should we balance those mechanics? How to make boss not too hard? How to make it not too easy? How to take all 8 classes into consideration? Repeat process for each boss of each new raid. And then patch the crap out of it, becouse SOMETHING will always fail to work. Same with PVP. How should arena be designed etc etc.

If you were so confident then you’d have a source for it. We’ll have to agree to disagree.

For context I’m a senior software engineer in the game industry and have been in this industry for over a decade. In fact a co-worker who worked at EA while Old Republic was in development was concerned about the same thing I express, that story context is far more expensive for time of playability.

You realize that “game design” applies equally to story content, dialog trees, all options need to be voice acted, multiple voice actors, writing of both the dialog, but also the story and progression, creating flows of cut-scenes etc.

There is some replayability to this content, though fairly limited. Most people skip through most dialogs and cutscenes on repeat playthroughs (reducing the time the content takes on replays).

Compare this to raid and end game group content that once done people will literally repeat the same content over and over 10+, 20+, 30+ times to grind out gear, faction, etc.

And no not all group and raid content requires new features to be programmed. Often they re-use the same mechanics already used or slightly altered. I also wouldn’t underestimate the amount of time it takes to debug a variety of dialog choices and interactions in story content as well.. Sometimes very minimal, and yes they must debug the sequence of triggers and events etc, but they need to the same with solo progressed story content as well.

Tuning is certainly a time sink to raids and group content, that’s probably where the majority of time comes into play if they truly care about making quality content. Remember though that a single raid will provide a massive amount of repeatable time of gameplay to players vs. story content.

It’s all about cost per game play hours provided.

As for models, do you know what you’re talking about? Many model used for a variety of high end group and raid content are re-used in story or general content. Often those models either are re-skinned for different purposes with minimal effort and even then the mesh geometry is slightly altered to create a different looking model without having to model something from scratch (again with minimal effort). Beyond that most models share common sets of animation rigs, so even if they do model the mesh from scratch they can re-use all the animations created. This is how it works for all humanoid models of the same general size.

People will blaze through these 9 chapters in hours and might replay them once without clicking through most dialog options. But a single Op will be replayed tens of times by every end game player, providing huge amounts of playable hours.

Also don’t downplay the cost of quality voice acting at the sheer scale that is required for this type of content. There’s a reason why voice acting even in AAA games like Bethesda games is massively inferior to all Bioware games, it comes down to effort and money and it all results in content that can be re-used far less than tuning raids.

You are talking about cost verses replayability. He was talking about just the cost – at least that’s how it seemed judging from his wordings. While I don’t doubt what you know, I don’t see any reason for him to lie either. What if a company has a change of heart and decides to invest minimally in a game onwards and rely mostly on old content instead? In that case, would it make sense for it to stop caring about cost verses replayability, but just cost instead, in deciding what new content to produce?

Just my two cents.

You may be completely correct. For the record I’m not saying he’s lying, just that I don’t believe what people claim a company said without actually showing a source for it.

In the end cost is only relevant in context to how much play time it offers. If say a chapter costs $50,000 to develop and an Op costs $40,000 to develop, but a chapter offers 15 min to 1 hour of gameplay to each player and an Op offers say a 4 hour run * 10+ times, so say 40+ hours maybe much more to players, then it’s hard to not realize story content costs far more to develop the same amount of playtime provided.

Basically story content the way Bioware offers it is a bad value proposition compared to most MMO content. This was known by the industry before Old Republic was released and was something everyone was quite curious to see if it was sustainable. That’s why Old Republic had a surge of subs and a couple months later lost a bunch when people finished the story content. Years of development resulted in a couple months of content.

Single player games can justify this focus since their potential consumer base is every gamer of the genre. For example each Mass Effect game sold over 3 million copies and you are talking at launch $50-$60 sales.

When Old Republic launches a story driven expansion their potential consumer base is *only* existing players, returning players, and a very small slice of potential new players that might buy for that expansion.

This is why expansions will offer a lesser value proposition than the base game (look at single player games for the same example).

These are all known things, nothing surprising or new here. It’s impressive that Old Republic has sustained it as much as it has. Maybe they need to find a better balance. Personally I’m all for them finding the balance that gets them the most money to keep going.

“What if a company has a change of heart and decides to invest minimally in a game onwards and rely mostly on old content instead? In that case, would it make sense for it to stop caring about cost verses replayability, but just cost instead, in deciding what new content to produce?

The thing is cost vs replayability isn’t a thing. How much play time content offers is in fact part of the cost equation. In an MMO that hopes to get subs its even more important, if people burst through all 9 chapters and they don’t have a reason to stick around then they won’t sub for more than a month. Ops and end game group content keeps players coming back. It’s a highly efficient form of content, hence why the rest of the industry does mostly only it (The MMO industry that is).

For example if a game cuts funds and revamps old content, that’s a decision made based on that as well. Minimal funds spent to revamp old content to get more player hours out of it. This is basically their decision to scale up old ops. Far cheaper than creating new ops but gives players a reason to keep playing and either sub or feed money into the Cartel Market.

There are a lot of ways to make money off of an online game and Old Republic tries many. It will be interesting to see how well this Expansion does. If it doesn’t do well they’ll adjust and you’ll see a refocus. On the other hand if the people complaining here are just a vocal minority and they actually do quite well you won’t see a shift.

People vote their agreement or disagreement with their money in the end.

The thing about repeatable content is that if you’re doing it with a group of friends and having a good time (ops, pvp) it becomes much more palatable to do the same thing over and over. That’s why trying to get people to level dozens of toons and re-run the story content (call this the KOTFE gambit) failed miserably. Grinding the same content all by yourself is miserable (and especially miserable if you have completionist OCD). People may come to the game for the story, they will stay for the people they meet.

But there are limits to repeating ops, even with your friends when the ops get to be 3 or 4 years old.

They made a huge mistake with SOR when they released incredibly buggy and overtuned story modes. Most raiders are story mode warriors, they dont have the skills or patience to do much more than KP or EV HM. It’s great to have hard content for people to aspire to, that is completely necessary, but its just as necessary to have easier content for normal players to enjoy and feel good about.

So SOR chased casual players away from ops in droves, and their resulting “metrics” gave them the lie that no one likes ops.

They fixed their tuning philosophy, (did a pretty good job if you ask me) with 4.0, but still their resulting 4.0 ops metrics are for content that is 2-4 years old. Sad to say, but with the lack of trust they have with the raiding community, i think there are a lot of people who have just completely moved on no matter what they do.

As for the money issue, they’ve been understaffed since they canned everyone after 1.2. They’ve been recycling content that was in the pipeline then and repurposing it for a very long time to make it look like they can produce more than they are really capable of.

Both st(ory and ops content require resources (I would argue all the voice acting and animation in story content requires a significant amount more), but coding and balancing the ops content requires better technical expertise, and the people with that technical expertise in austin have moved on to other projects.

I guess I’m just confused at their horrible use of resources. They go to the trouble to design new environments like odessen and asylum and then make them use once or twice and then never visit again.

EA gives them the money for a 6 minute CGI trailer (at a rumored million a minute) but nothing to add a small team to pop out a new op every 6-12 months).

This tells me one of three things is going on:
1. The people making the big decisions in Austin are in complete denial they are supposed to be managing an MMO and have no clue what they are doing..
2. Have tiny little balls in dealing with EA when it comes to managing their resources..
3. Someone with a helluva lot of pull is tanking this game on purpose to make way for a new abrams-era MMO and this game has 15 months to live.

Point by point, one of the best posts here. Congratulations.

I would only ask something Shawn Hargrave, in his particular style, has been asking all along: why is a STAR WARS game on a tight budget? Really, so many studios out there are making great MMO’s, delivering content at a good pace… Why is THE LARGEST AND MOST PROFITABLE FRANCHISE ON THE PLANET on a tight budget?

Even if people don’t see eye to eye with my points of view, they HAVE to be asking themselves this question. Doesn’t something smell wrong to you here? Hey, didn’t they say this was gonna be the “WoW Killer”??? So what? You strap “Star Wars” on it, and expect people to go bananas?

I always doubt when EA is involved. ALWAYS. They’ve closed down or re-purposed more great studios than I can count. On your final paragraph… Can I choose “all of the above”??? looool…

I think EA prefers Mass Effect to Star Wars. It is somewhat less popular but they got no IP constraints nor have to pay royalties.

So I guess all funds are going to Andromeda right now.

I mostly agree. Unfortunately you are looking at 8 class stories vs 2 world stories, 4x the amount of content was just not feasible. I (and many others) were glad to get whatever story focus we could get.

its feasable they just dont want to invest the time and money into b/c theyre on this tight budget of thiers bieng cheapasses b/c all the raiders left to finance it

I have to agree. I’m really not into Ops at all. Hard to organize, requires a great deal of training, gear and organization just to do it, and a simple lag spike can ruin a group. For me the reward for an Op is not worth the time required to do it (a tiny chance of a rare drop that I might not get? No thanks.) Ops make more sense for certain guilds and that’s fine, but on a player level…I could not care less. I’d rather see more open word events.

what you have to understand is a mmo’s raiding and pvp community is the bread and butter of any mmo the raiders for the most part. Tor has sacrificed thier raiders/pvpers for “story” you may think raiders are a small part but there was at launch a lot of raiding guilds that left so here you have a huge playerbase driven off and emphasis on a smaller playerbase not a good move financially for a company and explains why tors on a tight budget as it is. The real question is tor worth 15 bucks for a mostly single player game now? if you enjoy the game thats fine but in the long term sacrifcing your biggest playerbase for your smallest is a joke and financially stupid

Exactly, 2 things i want to point out. When this game went f2p, the one thing they made fully available was the story content and the MMO parts were still behing a sub wall. For them to basically do them same now and then come around and treat the playerbase that was their %100 sub base like shit is beyond me. Casual players can be preferred and go through the entire story content of this came for FREE! Without much restriction. What do casuals want? BiS gear? What for they don’t raid, it won’t matter. Yet the content that requires sub to play is not being worked on and catered to. Weird business model

Hear hear!
I’m so with you in this.
Was waiting for a story driven MMO for years, and then this Star Wars/Bioware wonder came. And i still like it 5 years later, still playing and still creating new chars to experience different choices.
Also, Kotfe was great for me, pure Bioware story and characters. Can’t wait for Kotet. 😀

All that said, what is the point financially if someone can pay $15 once and go through the whole thing and never have to pay for it? The MMO parts require an active sub, and no one is focusing on that. This is a weird business model.

I dont really raid anymore either. Done that for years in WoW. I play SWTOR because of the great story. Of course I would like to be able to enjoy the story with friends. Guess I can only do that in content older than Kotfe, flashpoints or some operations.

The problem currently is, the story of the trailer is basically a family drama that we heard from senya during the scorpio chapter on zakuul during a conversation. Shouldnt a trailer about a game be about more than just two persons drama? Shouldnt it show what the state of the galaxy looks like, what to expect? I think it should. Yet we only see a reflection of tiny events long ago that have not really anything to do with the actual story of the game…

I just hope the expansion wont be concentrating on something that was only a small conversation/tiny side story during the actual story. If it will be, it wont be good story telling. That would really suck considering we talk about bioware, the makers of mass effect and great story telling (at least until Kofte).

its not a question of how much time/money it takes to make it, its a question of how much they made back.
as far profits go, this game probably made nothing in contrast to what it took to create

Great post! I too wanted more story but in addition to open-world exploration and traditional endgame. I also didn’t think it would be presented episodically and in an on-rails play style which I found incredibly disappointing.

I posted this accidentally in another thread, multi tabs….

1. I think I know why they cut the recon walker picture off at the ankles. I really like the design, but I am willing to bet its another walker with hooves.

2. I don’t want Shae Visla as a companion. If she becomes a sub reward companion, it means she is no longer relevant to plot, and will probably never be ever again.

3. I Can finally enjoy the storyline on some kind of harder mode where I need to think
out the fights? I am ok with this. Hell I am a bit excited for it, if not nervous because of previous Bioware balance fuck ups.

Uprisings could be anything. They’ve successfully mentioned a thing without giving any relevant details about it. I want to be excited about it but how can I be? Just….oh god please don’t be MOBA mode or something….I can just hear the executives around the big table “Whats popular now? MOBAs? Can we do that? No? I dont care do it anyway.” Or we suddenly all get stuck in first person for Team Star Fortress Classic or Zakuul Overwatch. (I might be ok with that….)

5. I hate that early access is still considered a reward. It is beta testing inflicted on paying customers. Worse, its not like it thins out the crowd. Everyone is all there barking and snarling at each other over objectives and bottle necks anyway.

6. If the trailer cost 1 million, you could pay 10 people to design ops for a full year and cover
the expenses to have an office and equipment for them. I love Senya, and the video was awesome. I would trade it in a heartbeat to get the hardcore ops players back.

7. New max level? Why? Everything is sync’d levels are technically redundant. Its like a person desperately begging the doctor to leave their precious appendix alone while its killing them. Leveling to 65 is already in the game. The game that is already balanced to 65. We are stuck with it…stop adding to it. I don’t want to gain 5 levels on all my toons, not because it is work, but
because it wont mean anything anyway.

8. New planets? Who the fuck cares? We don’t have access to the new planets we just got. They
are an instanced mess with no value once you have completed their relevant chapters. I will never get to roleplay in the slums of asylum. Or do dailies on Odessen. Or have mind destroying erp grind sessions on…I dunno that planets name, the green fog one I stole treasure on.
If you are going to give us new planets…can we fucking KEEP them this time?!

TLDR: lol smh durrrrr

Upvoted for points 5, 6, 7, 8. Planet is Vandin. Technically you were never on the planet, since it’s a gas giant, but on a station in orbit. Could have been any planet, didn’t matter.

You do have access to Darvannis, though I can’t think of a reason to go there, except boting for sliced lockboxes… If you’re into that sort of thing…

I love Dolmens. I was pvping in Cyrodiil and I found a Dolmen, and almost completely forgot I was pvping. Plus, coldfire siege weapons! BURN ALDMERI FILTH!!!!

You guys start talking ESO in SWTOR threads and it makes me realize that the DvL distraction took me away from teh game I like the most…
Paulo and Naq = EVIL! Lol!
ESO is doing sooooo much for group content right now. When other games are going solo they are creating ways to male grouping easy and natural. It’s so awesome!
I fell into a group farming Zone bosses and Dolemans last night and had a blast picking us great gear, crafting mats and stuff to sell on the market there is a reason that ESO’s player base is steadily growing while other games are shrinking.

I totally agree about the She Vizsla thing Naq, I wish she wasn’t becoming a companion for the exact same reason.

Naq your #7 is right on the money, additional levels are pointless now that everything except HM and NiM Ops level sync and since those Ops are already tuned for lvl 65 it’s even more pointless. They just need a way to put in a new tier of gear for raiders to chase and making a new level grind “justifies” the new tier of gear.
Just add new sets with different bonuses and alternate stat boosts… Like ESO just did…
Guess I better get off these forums and go back to ESO…

Get into your ship. As long as you have completed the Mandalorian chapter, go to Hutt Space and you’ll find Darvannis there.

Glad they’re not doing monthly chapters again. I personally like the idea of all at once like RotHC or SoR or I’d even be OK with just large chunks of story every 3 to 6 months at a time. Hopefully what they are doing is the 9 chapters right now as a complete story and between now and our next main story installment. We’ll get updates to old features (Ops, FPs, Conquest, etc.) and hopefully new features as well. Plus some short side story missions (Stuff along the same lines as Alert Missions.) from time to time, while we are waiting on new main story would be nice as well.

This statement from the KotET info page is a little confusing, “Must be a Premium player (subscriber status) as of December 2, 2016 to play Knights of the Eternal Throne.”. Do they mean you only get access to the story if you sub by December 2nd or can you still sub any time afterward to get KotET and keep it once you go back down to Preferred? I ask, because I might not be able to sub again until January. It would suck, if I missed out on this story by a month. Seeing how I have all expansion content on up to Chapter 16 of KotFE. I hope this isn’t another HK-55 Bonus Chapter ordeal.

As usual you will get it all as soon as you sub, you just won’t get the extra rewards, meaning Shae Vizla as a companion and the walker mount. For those you have to be subbed before

Yeah I’m not worried about losing out on items or comps. I was just worried about losing out on access to story. So thanks for the reply.

To get all the rewards (Shae, Walker, and Early Access) you have to be sub from October 25th through November 26th. Then to do early release you must be a Sub on Nov 29th, when ER goes live. Everyone else has to be a Sub on Dec 2nd to get the Xpac for free and to play it.

ie Sub from some point before October 25th and December 2nd and you get everything. Why anyone would want to play this w/o a Sub it way beyond reason (I dont care if you bought every unlock from the CM to make it playable, just no. Bad voodoo)

I’d say they will follow the same model they did up till now. If you are a sub as on December 2nd or later, you just gain full access to the content.

You sound like a turd (she said, replying in a lower intelligence so as to not confuse the author of this quote).
Maybe you should elaborate some?

It’s the same stuff they’ve been saying for years. Yes, we know people have x and y problems, but we can’t say anything about the possible solutions. No, we are not releasing x and y content with the next patch, but we know people have been asking for it so stay tuned for more information. It’s always later and keep checking with them.

Tbh I have given up every expecting this game to bring back proper group content. They keep saying we will look into it or people want more interesting story content the find that’s not the case and they won’t endgame group content but bw ignore it sm for classic bioware story experience. Let’s face it game has become about what is cheapest for then to make and about rebuilding there reputation for fully immersive story.

KOTET is the final chapter and then uprisings is the final MMO components.

Game has one more year left and then it is shut down to have something more profitable. Think Desitny.

It was fun you fucks.

are you one of the poeple who said 4.0 was never going to arrive and it would shut down? Pretty sure you’ve bee saying that for at least 2 years now. Don’t worry, eventually you’ll get it right and I’ll be there to remind you that screaming “It’s shutting down!” every update doesn’t make you right. you set a precedence and it becomes a coincidence that the two coincide

K, what about new egine, what about new endgame content that will be replayable? what about new ui, or more and better options to current ui designer, what about new mission log management?

No idea where people are getting this “new engine” idea from, if there is a new engine in development there is no way swtor is being put on it, just saying. It would be too much work and since they don’t like hiring anyone to develop content as it is, yeah.

endgame replayable content, did you read the bit about Jan livestream???

UI, did you ask for Cristina to ask that question?? If you haven’t noticed she was only asking questions that were sent to her. Also see “engine” comment

multiple games have been updated to newer directx version to apply better performance 🙂 many of them were mmos, including leader in this – WOW.

I guess you must be new here since the new engine was a frequent asked questions and always met with the same answer. NOOO. It won’t be a copy paste so it would take nearly as much time to do swtor on new engine as it did to create it.

And multiple games have either their own engine which they upgraded or have an engine that isn’t outdated making starting on a new one difficult and time consuming as swtor has.

I think he means “New to SWTOR”
And he is correct, last year they put the new engine debate to bed, SWTOR would have to be recoded and rebuilt in order to update the engine since much of the base code was “brute forced” to make it work and have the game ready when EA wanted it ready.

The same thing they were saying about datacrons, and yet they became legacy. They have to update the game to newer dx or game will just die, not because of lack of content, but because of lack of quality of gameplay.

New engine for SWTOR = They have to recreate every aspect of the game all over again.

I.e they have to start over from scratch.

Also known as they would have to do all that work a second time.

One could also say, they might as well just make a new, completely different, game because it would be the same amount of time, effort, money and work.

The code that SWTOR is built on only works with this engine because they took shortcuts and made mistakes.

SWTOR is dependant on the current engine and is unable to be ported to a different engine without being rebuilt.

Kinda like putting a Kenworth engine in a Datsun, you would have to build a new car.

It is not possible to upgrade the engine given how they screwed up the base code of the game because EA demanded they rush the release date.

All of this was covered in detail and very directly by the dev team. SWTOR will never get a new engine because it is not possible.

Are you should they would have to? Because as far as i know, not. And im not a programmer, but my knowlage is a bit bigger than yours i assume.

you assume too much in this case. This and many commenters have mentioned this already (but you seem to choose to blantly ignore that) Has been covered by the Devs and others who have a lot of knowledge of the Engine they use. It has been custom build and even more so after their first visual upgrade and performance enhancer in between the point of RoTHC release and Scum and Villainy or better said the Dread Master focus raids and story.

Its fully brute forced and built solely around SWTOR meaning more than half the stuff if you tried to just copy and paste into a new engine would not fuction because the strings and codes that have been added will not be compatible to the new engine as its not build/custom around swtor.

So we end back at the start which means redo swtor all over, which would take almost as long, if not longer to do since a new engine needs new understanding and uses different codes, which is time consuming which means either leave old swtor running with no new content since everyone would be busy trying to configurate the new engine and redo swtor on it or shut down swtor and since 1. player base would not be happy cause of no content ( you can see how much are unhappy with the current progress of “content” still upsets them) and 2 it generates no money.

TLTR: New engine would take too much time to have swtor rebuild on it from scratch, generates no money. been said 10000 over.

also upgrade/update game to work with new directx does not req a new engine!

He’s probably regurgitating bullshit but funnily enough SOME of what he’s saying IS true, I know a couple people who are good friends with the devs a while ago. *Wall of text incoming*

One of the primary reasons they can’t/haven’t upgraded is that half the game is written in one language and the other half is written in the original coding language of the Hero alpha Engine. That wouldn’t be a problem normally except from what I’ve heard these two languages are not natively able to interact.

It’s these workarounds that they’ve had to construct that most of the games code is built on which causes the issue in upgrading. Any upgrade will require them to completely rewrite the game from scratch, no importing. Furthermore there are only a few developers who know how to get the two parts of the game to interact correctly in order to make/fix operations correctly. Most of these people have either been transferred to ME:Andromeda or no longer work on swtor. There are a couple people left who who can do it but the sheer amount of time it would take left them with the decision to not upgrade and wait for the successor to swtor.

Keep in mind, this information regarding the decision is almost a year and a half old so there is potentially a chance that because they claim swtor now has no set end date that they could attempt a rewrite, but unlike Blizzard I don’t know if their willing to commit the development time to making a new engine. Because any upgrade would have to be a complete rewrite.

You are assuming that you are smarter than me? That’s a real dick move, FYI. Actually I am a network Engineer and a Software programer, so “My knowledge is probably bigger than yours.” to paraphrase your statement…
Also I trust the devs when they say that upgrading the Engine isn’t going to happen

while it should be. Every major game in mmo market was and is recieving engine updates to utilitize newer technologies.

Updates. Not totally new engines. That’s basically remaking the game, which is never going to happen. Only one I heard about getting a new engine was final fantasy I think, and that was down for a long time while they worked on it.

Me too. And remembering back … so much advertised and so much lesser delivered (in my opinion).

Refused to accept the game is a failure for the 4 years of playing it, nearly as long as I’ve been following it. The KOTFE’s “pay for cutscenes” was the last straw. And pre-launch it looked like this will be the Star Wars universe we all wanted to immerse in, what a disappointment.

If you think that killing spawn mobs around the worlds is “flashpoint like content” you definitely deserve paying 15$ for this game.

Sounds like you think they consider employing more developers for these things worthwhile in light of the revenue projections of the game. 😛

They should. SW is well known around the world and i have encountered many people that would love to play this game if the game would run better in ops and pvp. There is a quote:

standing still fall back

EA money is being poured into ME: Andromeda instead of TOR, while TOR is in cartel market moneymaker mode.

Why are you surprised by this? Mass Effect is very famous, and they own the IP. They don’t need to pay royalties to Disney nor worry about IP constraints since they can do with their own as they want to.

Star Wars is big, but it also costs a lot. Mass Effect may not be *that* big an IP, but it is still a franchise beloved by millions and Mickey Mouse won’t take his cut out of the profits.

Mass Effect is famous, but not for all the best reasons. ME3 hurt the franchise badly and it still has not recovered. The buzz about Andromeda has been about its graphics, but not about the story or how badly players want it, especially PC players (there seems to be hunts that they are more focused on consule ports). And of late, games that focus too much on graphics have usually failed badly (see Destiny).

I do agree that the company WOULD be more focused on an IP they completely own, rather than one they have to share and could be stripped of at any moment. However it is a mistake to walk away from it due to the amount of money it generates (I have heard figures around 180 million in profits a year), and an even bigger one not to invest in it more than just storylines.

TOR is a lost cause, that’s why they don’t fund it. It brings little money and they invest little. Would you imagine that if TOR was a smashing hit and people were rolling to play it there wouldn’t be serious content development, like there is for World of Warcraft? It’s not connected to the development of ME: Andromeda. Games are funded based on the revenue projections. I do hope that ME: Andromeda is superb, it’s just separate from TOR.

I would like to hear proof of the “little money” statement.

I just thinkt they found the story content niche, sat in it, and are happy with it.

Clearly. If you don’t mind spending 140 bucks a year + CM expenses for what other games offer for 40 bucks, I am sure BWA love you to bits. I call it robbing your own wallet, but yes, you are free to choose to do that.

Yes, its disgusting alway beeing rejected from getting into a HM group for ravagers or ToS … always the stupid question: did you already do it once? my answer: no. Their replay: sorry pal run it with our guild first … FUCKING BONGERS I can’t run with my guild because of job and other more important real life issues. Therefore I fully understand Saito
Eyes of Gehenna has a point … 140 bucks a year is a sum, but please, a single player game will be finnished after 2, maybe 3 month. The longest playtime I had was for DA:O and after 4 month I was through with it, even with DLCs and mods. So in comparions I would need 3-4 single player games per year each 40 bucks. In the and the costs are the same. And even a saturday evening spend in the disco or cinema costs me about 20 bucks (gas, entry fee, beverage, etc) for only ONE 2 hours movie.
Ops are fun. That’s it. It’s not only about clearing instances, or killing bosses, getting new gear, its also about being together with other games in teamspeak, speaking about cinemas, telling each other jokes, or just enjoying the time.
But what I hate is the unfairness in ops … in most SM Ops you have 5 bosses and a mat, so six players are getting good loot while 2 are going out empty. This cannot be. Everyone who takes part in an op should have a fair share of the loot.
Thats the reason I’m avoiding SM ops completely and only run HM modes in prio mode … 10 tokens (on 5 bosses), lots of crafting mats, high chance of deco, and EVERYONE in the raid group gets a fare share of the loot.

Ops are fun for those with TeamSpeak, guilds and online friends that can make the time needed for it. For those that don’t have the time, or have random schedules, it’s a pain to do and the rewards are not really worth it. Operations mostly benefit guilds, not individual players, so unless you are pretty into a guild, there isn’t much of a point in doing one. The social benefits you can do in or out of the Op.

HM Ops do have a better chance of getting decent stuff, but you also have to plan well in advance, you have to have a specific build and gear and you could get booted from pretty much any reason at any point. Again you usually have to be in a guild that would be willing to do it, and from my experience you are expected to hand over Decors and mats to the guild itself. I did a few pick-up Ops for a guild group that needed an extra healers, and every time I was “informed” not to try to get any loot or roll for items. I did anyway (I wanted that Generator, damnit!) because at max level and Legacy, what else is there to get?

Overall, I think we don’t need more Ops (we have so many), we need a top-down hard look at how they are constructed and changes to make them more appealing to the general population.

Your’re telling me you are really taking part in an ops with locked items?
Guilds filling up their raids with randoms and excluding them from loot on your server? Thats unheard of … that’s even an outrage.

Sorry, but I would never take part in an ops with such behavier. On which server are you playing? Here on T3M4 its common that everyone partaking in an ops gets an equal roll on the loot. Even randoms that fill up a guild raid.

I’m part of a guild but can’t join the guild raids for real life issues (job, other things). So I’m taking part in random ops or even start raids by myself, calling in LFG for other tanks, dd, heal whatever is required. And I’m always getting my raids together and usually we finish the ops and everyone gets his/her share of the loot. No one goes out empy (well, I’m usually only running prio ops, so yes, enough token, mats, etc for everyone).

And yes, there are people even here LFM for raids with locked items but usually they just get flamed all over the LFG for such behavier,
put into igno lists and so on … and righteously deserved.

I’m on Ebon Hawk, and yeah it happens a LOT. It is not unusual to have guild do PUGs to flesh out teams, but there are guilds that attempt to restrict or control them as well. All sorts of bizarre behaviour happens here, from GTN economic controls )guilders buying low-priced items and reselling them at certain fixed rates to keep prices at certain levels, aka out of non-guilder price ranges), to PvP harassment to open “forced play” at Fleet. It has gotten better of late but this happens.

It’s really easy to see a guild name and avoid that guild in the future. Not to mention the Ops community is pretty much dead so the few remaining can pretty much do as they please. When you have an abundance of raiders on the servers you have more PUGs and you are less likely to run into bullshit ops groups. When I was playing and I would pick up randoms, I generally would avoid taking loot for myself for SM content and treat it as a COMM/weekly run. Your issues stem directly from not having endgame content.

At least you were informed! There are guys out there who were cut out from the loot without prior information. It’s really low, it’s a theft. But it does happen.

Which is why raiding guilds were SO important. Nevermind all those issues: I was in guilds where we took turns in gearing up the people that did raids. The tank is undergeared? Well, the loot goes out to him. The healer’s next. Or anybody who was undergeared.

Of course, those things do take up a longer time than your average, “normal” player. You have to get a timetable, and enough people to do it, because there’s always someone that has real life issues that prevent him/her from joining. It’s normal, and if the people are cool, it’s perfectly understood.

I think too much focus has been put on Ops. This game has need of Endgame material, be it Ops or something else completely different. Of course I love Ops. But I love Dailies too. Or a couple new FP’s. Or ANYTHING that would be an excuse for me to take one of my 24 toons out of their Strongholds…

Agreed. I’m more of a role-player, so the main draw to Ops are the Decors. I want to construct an outpost/village for RP play. Unfortunately my current location, schedule and free time restrict what I can do. That and this rather poor old laptop. I would not mind joining a guild full-time, but I would prefer an RP one and be able to invest in it…something I cannot do until I get back to the States at least. What you mentioned sounds amazing, and maybe I’ll find those guilds one day.

Overall…I don’t think Ops are the direction we need. “Raiding” doesn’t really fit the style of SW, unless there is a story element or tie-in. Personally, I’d like to create an Op that:
1.) Had random event elements so that you never got the same exact Op twice (changing order of attackers, events or even the End Boss and what they did)
2.) Real World Event, basically not happening in an instance but in the world itself…like say, a massive pirate raiding force attacking the main city on Rishi, with multiple events around the city and consequences as to what the players did (or did not) accomplish during it.
3.) Individual, group/team and Ops rewards for ALL. No matter what, if you joined, you should get something. Random drops are garbage in a group. Make people WANT to play them because they KNOW they will get something good.

I fully support point 3) … no stupid coms for the weekly but a token of that grade (SM, HM, …) that can be exchange for whatever you want (head, gloves, MH, OH, …).

I agree. Although I do love Ops, at this point I would be cool with anything lol…

Some time ago I hinted at a formula to make group play simple, fast and rewarding: Rift has these rift occurrences where the opposite faction tries to invade your world by… well, rifts! lol. I understand GW2 has something similar. And ESO has the Dolmens, where Molag Bal tries to do the same.

You don’t have to group up, as long as you damage one of the enemies in the occurrence you get the final loot!

Now, this could be a formula for the Star Fortresses, where the Eternal Empire would launch an invasion attempt, and it would be up to us and our glorious characters to stop it. Maybe the Uprisings could be something like this, but I doubt it. Now, make some very nice and EXCLUSIVE rewards for these events and you have a great formula for group playing, I would think…

I was thinking the same thing! Considerig that the Fortresses each have a kind of base on the planet they are over, it would not be hard to start as an invasion point in those locations and if not checked, have it spread over the planet.

…..and yet you still play it?
I pay it and love every minute and the CM is brilliant.
What game does it for ‘ 40 bucks’? lmao.

I don’t waste even a single additional buck on CM items … either buying them from the GTN with credits, or with CC’s from the sub … or just forgo this or that item.

Nah. Cause you wanted to mock my name. While yours contains mummy. You must see the irony. If you dont, ask mummy

gearing up for ops was pretty easy before. you could have yourself ready for solomode by the end of the singleplayer content

nah I just don’t have that much time to waste like you enduring all those ops dramas, I’m good playing the chapter or chapters that launch and waiting till the next.

You must be new to the game then, because those of us that have been around since launch have done all the content about a million times. Other MMOs don’t have a problem putting out group content, BEAwares sole focus is the CM and 20 min of extra solo play over the last 2 years.

If its so enjoyable why are they giving the option to skip kofte. Lmao its terrible. Have 8 advanced classes and could only stomach 1 play through. Its fucking dreadful

yep. and this idiot won’t contribute to a MMO without MO content. Enjoy funneling money into the CM. For the record, it said “might” be 2017, not “will be”.

I have given up on this game every having proper endgame content that will keep people playing longer than a month. Even if they did add some it will be fairly short. Uninteresting and just a be way if saying u asked for it this is what your getting. Game has consistently for last couple years become more about the cartel market and making as much money as they can’t from it than providing a true mmo experience that can keep everyone happy and interested.

More solvable content isn’t a bad thing when combined with more group content for those that prefer endgame

Lol why people keep asking for new ops when they already said again and again that their main focus now is story content.
There’s even more than one dude asking the same at the same event, why can’t someone ask something more useful.

like who in their right mind would pay a monthly Fee for an MMO that only produces Single player content, or why even bother Calling it an MMO anymore? that is a great question.

Maybe people like myself whose want to play Star Wars without depending all time of people who doesn’t know how to use their spec or playing as an unique rol.
Of course I would like new group content, but is not why I’m playing this game since 2011. Each person is looking for different things in this game.

Exactly, the moaners on this forum are so self obsessed and self righteous that they MUST get what they want or they are going to come on here and cry that they’re unsubbing. Who honestly cares.
There’s parts of the game I don’t like so I don’t do them cause there’s plenty other things to do in the game.
If they play the game for 1 thing more fool them.

i been playing since 2012, and right now there is nothing enjoyable for me to do in the swtor MMO, and people moan because this game No longer merits the right to be called an MMO when you stop producing any sort of group content period and rely heavily and only on SP campaign chapters.

they have not produced a new FP , heroic, Op, or starfighter map in over 2 years.. so yeah they only produce SP content. and cartel market bs that morons buy.

Because whenever somebody asks BWA about ops they never say they won’t, imply that they might and leave people hanging. If they would just say “sorry guys, we’re done with that, doing other stuff now” then people would have clarity. BWA refuses to do that, so some people keep hoping, because if there was no hope BWA could just say so.

Honestly, people have to be slightly slow to keep demanding a straight answer. It’s like they slap you and you ask them if they’re going to stop slapping you. They respond “maybe” and you sit there hoping they’ll stop slapping you. At some point, just look at their actions and not their words

There is far more challenge in Ops. A great deal of thought has to go into coordinating 8 people to get through the mechanics of a HM or NiM run. It isn’t like the mobs in between cut scenes where you can just spam your general attack and win. This is why most raid teams cringe when a PUG talks about how bad as they are because they can burn through dailies or Melt H2+ mobs. Ops bosses require you to think, be intelligent and know how to get out of stupid. SM/Solo mode hero’s die in a red circle of GTFO more often than they successfully complete a raid.

Iv’e done all raids HM and Nim been with several raiding guilds, Tanked and dps’d some and later became a healer and can say most apart from 1 were awful guilds where they belittled people and were generally obnoxious so i know what i’m talking about.
True it is such a thrill getting past a hm boss (lurker HM before the nerf) was amazing but the attitude of these guys was disturbing to new players in general.

You fell in with a few bad guilds and you let those individuals ruin the raiding experience for you. Just like in everything there are good people and bad people. It sounds like you found the bad ones. Unfortunately it really depends on how you marketed yourself or what you found appealing about the guilds you chose to join.
If you were chasing NiM content I have no doubt that you fell in with the worst of the worst those that consider themselves to be total badasses often treat people like garbage. They don’t care that they do this, you are beneath them if you think the way they treat people is bad.
You have to find the folks that fit with your personality and playstyle. If you are more laid-back you don’t want to go looking for the folks chasing world firsts, server firsts, NiM achievements and being the best damn raid team on the server because those people are WAY more likely to be assholes. If you want that big time notoriety you have to be willing to deal with the jerks.

sounds to me they pretty much confirmed ops in 2017
2 years of story focus is enough to keep the story alive while they’re busy finished a story heavy ops (seriously, it’s not like raids/warzones aren’t story content)

I have given up on this game every having proper endgame content that will keep people playing longer than a month. Even if they did add some it will be fairly short. Uninteresting and just a be way if saying u asked for it this is what your getting. Game has consistently for last couple years become more about the cartel market and making as much money as they can’t from it than providing a true mmo experience that can keep everyone happy and interested.

More solvable content isn’t a bad thing when combined with more group content for those that prefer endgame

Agreed. As it is now, from my viewpoint anyway, The game is just a cycle of Cartel Market packs and how to get the items from them. That’s it.

Now, Dulfy doesn’t deal in datamined info, but I hope it’s not bannable here? So, for something positive:

While it’s obviously early iteration, it actually looks like BW pulled their heads out of their asses in regards to classes, and decided to do some very nice clean-up. Nothing tremendous, but being more mobile on melee classes, being less reliant on position on Scrapper or getting Deception less messy is definetely nice. Beats their attempt of class “changes” during 4.0.

Let’s get real here. A lot of it are useless abilities that only confuse average players. There’s also a limit as to how many abilities you can include in a rotation. Sure us hardcore gamers don’t have a problem, but the hardcore gamers aren’t the core gamers of SWTOR.

most abilities didn’t get removed either, just replaced by other abilities (like an instant sticky nade on vg, ranged stun on slinger etc)
all in all there’ll probably be more abilities used in 5.0 than in 4.0

the passive stance kinda sucks, being able to hop into soresu to “emergancy tank” was a useful part of guardians

if guard is really going to be possible for the dps specs it’s gonna be OP I think
static 5% dmg reduction, and reduced threat in pve, 50% dmg redirected in pvp; all without losing any dps from having tank stance

you could even guard both tanks if they know how to taunt

Oh yeah baby! I’m even going to buy popcorns, sit back on my chair and enjoy the shitstorm with the pvp’ers if this hits live…

“Sorcerers/Sages and Hatred Assassins/Serenity Shadows had nearly all abilities nerfed by 2-10%.”

Just… Why??? They are NOWHERE NEAR the top dps chart! If anything, they needed a boost! Also: Hatred/Serenity needs more passive mitigation.

“Ravage/Blade Dance has been turned into an instant ability.”

I don’t know about this one. If it doesn’t mess with the animation it might just be cool… If it DOES it’s really bad. BW need to understand things have to look cool too! And that animation is awesome.

“Guard is no longer tied to the tanking stance and can now be used by DPS players as well.”

This is where it REALLY goes wrong. I don’t pvp, but I can just see the shitstorm brewing over the distant horizon… This one is going to cause a lot of noise, I can tell you that. What’s the reason for this? Why not just make Guard EXCLUSIVE to tanks and be done with it? You can’t switch from dps to tank with these new rules… Noooo they have to complicate matters, as always…

I could go on with some minor rants I have, but they are not that important. This is what I find is most important… Without going into detail with the Adv Classes…

Just love this line ^^
“Focus in 2017: Group content. Will there be new ops? New pvp maps?
Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps. Lots of elusiveness, nothing concrete”

The peeps at EAware got what ? +500% to dodge “critical questions”

telling us the truth, that they’re not going to do new ops because they’re a waste of resources won’t keep ops runners strung out.

Its their policy now – to not to spoil anything before the closest to release. Because amount of posion in TOR haters veins is so much, that they will destroy anything, even good things. This happened before SOR, this partly happened before KotFE.

Do you remember, when we got Togruta and Yavin SH? People really enjoyed it. But haters were whining more and more. So promised space battles aka GSF were ruinded at start.

I only realised recently how GSF is cool, but majority of players avoid it. GSF is an entire new game in TOR, imagine the amount of resources spent on it! Yet people prefer to ignore it because of ruined reputation.

I cant say I disagree with their current position about informing the community. I just want to see if all what they promise will be delivered to us.

“There will be no operations with the launch of KOTET…”

In my opinion, an expansion is supposed to mean: New storyline, new dungeon(s), new PvP maps and modes, fixes, and new fun surprises. (…unsubscribes…again.)

Can’t you enjoy the game for what it is? No? Then quit and get over it? Still asking about ops? Who would play them, how do you describe the endgame scene in SWTOR? Just get real, this is like asking for KFC in McDonalds, at best they will give you some chicken nugget and say “here, we have chicken”. Generally if you like KFC you don’t go in McDonalds looking for it and vice versa.

Almost two years since the latest ops in Shadow of Revan in 2014. Folks are still hanging and expecting “something”. What do you think will happen? An expansion that will add 10 flashpoints, 2 ops, 5 fully fledged planets, new hub (tired of the “fleet” for the past 5 years?), world bosses, various new features, systems, class abilities? And more added in content updates afterwards? World tournaments, mobile apps, website functionality? Do you honestly think any of that will happen, judging by the last two years in this game?

Isn’t it a bit foolish to cry for things you well know are not happening?

For every disgruntled post, like mine, there is a bunch of defenders who want blood. Yet, you have the once heavily populated The Progenitor server fall from 2-3 150 people instances on fleet in prime time, to 1 instance with 50-60 folks hanging around at best. People are probably out playing the new content….. on Youtube.

That is true and sad. I mainly play on TRE but I have several toons on Progenitor and log onto them from time to time. Only to see how the server is dying. Really sad.
Even TRE is dying; slowly but surely. I remember having 4 fleets on TRE at prime time. Those were the days I guess, because now you have 2 fleets and none full.
As I said, this is really sad. We can talk all day about the direction of the devs have taken and the current state of the game etc.., but at the end the numbers don’t lie.

losing people isn’t the same as dying
pvp pops any time of the day/night; flashpoint pops are fast (even outside primetime); and operations still happen often (if you know the right people/guilds)

Because game is lacking endgame content. Repeatable operations (raids), flashpoints (dungeons), real deal world bosses, and competitive pvp with new maps. Story is cool, its something that changed the mmo scene for me and i enjoyed it a damn lot. But it is dull to redo same story every weekend with folks… wait, you cant do it. It is a single player content. aww….

Although I really like the discussions here at Dulfy, THIS is the ONLY TRUTH I care about:

Servers BARELY break Standard these days… In the most populated servers! Forget about the other ones, Standard would actually be very good! Now go on and tell me this whole story-driven business was a good idea…

I just walked away. My Xbox One got dusted off and now running some fun games and looking forward to some good releases. Sad that there wont be a decent Star Wars game for some time but eh, I’ve learned patience thanks to this game.

These stats… Low population means low revenue. Investment is based on revenue predictions. Therefore abandon all hope that a miracle will happen for this game.

I logged onto JC for the first time in months last Saturday and there was 1 instance of Fleet with 30-some ppl on it. Next, went to Odessen which was always bustling with ppl at KotFE launch and only saw 1 other person. That’s it. Maybe there was an issue with the instance of it I was in? I said hi to a few friends in my guild, briefly thought about doing something, realized there’s absolutely nothing for me to do, and logged out. Still not sure when I’ll give them $15 to finish KotFE as I don’t care about the story much at all or the 9,000 Skytroopers I have to slog through to see it.

About the only thing that could bring me back at this point is if those 2 new planets are actually 2 full large-scale planets that I can explore and do quests on. Everyone generally focuses on Ops/FPs which I do miss as well but I miss explorable world content even more.

It’s called expressing your opinion. In the end, yes, people that are not satisfied with the direction of the game, will quit. Using your own logic, why are you crying about other people expressing their opinion? Why do you care? You can’t read comments of people with different views on a random website? The solution is simple: Alt +F4.

And I can say the same about your post and we just enter a loop without any discussion. Besides I am not crying, I’m actually asking several questions.

answering some of your questions:
I’d play them, along with at over 30 other people I personally know (that’s not counting the guilds that keep quiet/low profile)

we ask for ops because that’s what we enjoy most; we love swtor, and enjoy raiding in swtor
the endgame scene in swtor is for me personally better than other games I’ve played; if you find a nice community it’s really great life in swtor
I don’t expect half the things you list, 2 smaller ops or an ops like S&V would be nice; I don’t care much about flashpoints, planets, hubs, or any of the other stuff you talk about

Alright, I’m glad you enjoy, but don’t you get tired of running the same places for 5 years now? The question comes from someone who has ran over 400 guild operations. I have every rare and vanity item, then they added more (decos mainly) and I got them too. How long can one enjoy doing the same thing over and over and over again? If you are playing from recently then it’s understandable, if you are a veteran like me then I can’t comprehend it.

What irks me is not the people who enjoy it, but that they gladly pay for nothing (no ops since 2014). Thus why develop new content if they can make money without doing it? It stimulates the latent money milking. I try to avoid mentioning other games, but holy hell Blizzard ask for the same monthly sub, have no cash shop and add a tremendous amount of content to their MMO in comparison.

I haven’t been a hardcore raider until the start of 3.0
but even now, I still enjoy doing ops, simply because I enjoy the combat

true, there hasn’t been new ops since 2014, but reviving the older opses has given more challenging content than adding a new ops in 4.0 and leaving the rest as it was (S&V, tfb, df and dp would all have become as easy as ec was in 3.0; now the last bosses are still challenging)

why do you care what people spend their money on though? if some people want to spend a few thousand $ on cosmetics and collecting stuff, it’s not up to me to tell them they’re insane

the biggest difference between me and some hardcore nim raiders who left the game a year ago, is that I care more about having fun, than about getting new rewards; I have a group of friends who I clear nim content on, and for me personally 5.0 comes at perfect timing; just as I started to get bored with some of the content

I care about having fun too. Running Eternity Vault or Dread Palace or Yavin’s Temple over a hundred times loses its fun factor, no matter whether they increase the bosses health and damage or not. If you eat your favorite food every day you will get sick of it too.

I agree there aren’t enough opses to prevent boredom; but it takes longer for some than for others
Ev/kp/ec are more fun in 4.0 than 3.0
But even so I’m tired of ev /kp
The rest I still enjoy, depending on the group

You are talking like SWTOR never had Operations. But even the term Operations isn’t used in other MMO. So, Operations are a SWTOR thing. Not like KFC at McDonalds.

Not for the past 2 years of its 5 years life. It’s going towards half of the game’s existence without challenging multiplayer content. Of course my post is exaggerated, but what a fanatic must one be to keep paying for two years in hopes of something happening? That is unless folks consider the 15$ montly worth it for what they currently get. I call it yutube content, but there must be satisfied customers since the game is still in business.

you don’t find df timed or dp timed a challenge? if so, you’re one of the rare few
for me, I enjoyed playing ec nim on max lvl again; it made all the nim ops a bit more challenging again, so I wouldn’t call it “no ops content”

ofc I still hope they’ll add something early 2017, but mostly because there’ll be a great many leaving if they don’t, patience is running out for most raiders

I cleared Dread Fortress and Dread Palace in 2013, repeatedly. I have the mask from the entity in Darvannis, I have the wings from Brontes. It is soon 2017. I don’t understand your point. There hasn’t been ops since 2014.

We were op’s heavy in 2014 so I remember vividly people were screaming for character progression which was lacking so they took us on the Ziost, Kotfe journey which although not my cup of tea was a monumental amount of work for them.
If you cant wait please leave and re-sub when they do (please don’t rush back though)

ops heavy in 2014? what are you retarded or special needs? 2 ops in 1 year is not a lot at all.. that is bare minimum what most companies who produce MMOs put.. Hell FF14 not even been out as long as Swtor and has over 4x the group dungeons

In 2014 we had 7 ops in 3 modes of difficulty, multiple world bosses dozens of Fp’s.
FF14 had a awful start but got a little bit better from what i’ve heard

in 2014 it had been 13+ months between ops release. you dont count the ops they release prior, so we only had 2 new ops for the entire year of 2013 we had to wait over a year for, and then again 2 new ops in 2014 we had to wait 13 months for, and then nothing, Game’s not meant to be called an MMO anymore.

I don’t recall anyone saying “gief more story, disregard the MMO part!”
And rest assured I am unsubbed. I felt it is an insult to pay monthly sub for Youtube content, while other games ask the same price and offer vastly more.
As for the “ops heavy” part… lel.

They went down the road people asked for. Shit happens, move on.
in 2014 we had 7 ops in 3 modes of difficulty, multiple world bosses dozens of Fp’s and people (not me) wanted character progression.
I’m glad you’ve moved on……or have you.

I’m glad you were happy with the game in 2014, I was too. But we are nearing 2017 now. Again, don’t go with that delusion that, you see, “people wanted single player content and BW delivered, so what’s the problem now”. Yes, we wanted continuation of the story, but in the manner the game started in – a full experience, story you can enjoy with others, group conversations, new challenges, new lands to explore, a Star Wars universe. Really, there aren’t fools around who can be made to believe “they got what they asked for”.

my point is that there has been ‘new’ content in the sense that older content has been made relevant again
I still find df, dp, styrak and tfb enjoyably challenging; I have killed all those bosses before, but I don’t care; I’m having fun, that’s what counts

I understand where you’re coming from, and there’s a lot of people like you, who’ve already quit; and I hoped BW would add an ops in 5.0, as that’d keep most raiders interested

But that will never be enough for the self righteous. They will still moan when the new op’s come.
I like you still find these challenging in Nim and is fun taking new players through them.

“What do you think will happen? An expansion that will add 10 flashpoints, 2 ops, 5 fully fledged planets, new hub (tired of the “fleet” for the past 5 years?), new classes, world bosses, various new features, systems, abilities? And more added in content updates afterwards? ”

Yes, please.

Must buy more from the CM to fund it then. Just don’t hold me accountable once you look back having paid a bag of money getting nothing, but the privilege of playing 5+ years old content rescaled numerous times.

For the record, I briefly listed what Blizzard added with their latest expansion.

The only thing the CM funds is more CM dreck. Has been going that way for a long while now. The devs seem to firmly believe the metrics are telling them everyone wants to play barbie dress up instead of a MMO Star Wars game because of all the people gobbling up the dreck. So that is what you are getting.

Very much so. As a dear friend of mine says SWTOR has become an experiment to test just how far you can go milking the Star Wars fans before they break.

I’d like to see a magical flying pig, singing opera, and shooting gold bullion out of its rear end. That will happen before this game drops 5 Ops during an expansion.

Folks still hope that a miracle will happen and a content heavy expansion will show up out of nowhere. It will not. I know the feeling well, because I’ve spent plenty of time hoping the same thing, before unsubbing Feb. 2016.

Although I do like the multi player stuff, I have to agree with you. It does not seem like their heart is really in it. I would rather they spend their time exploring their own vision for the game (and I will decide if i will play it or not). They should not waste time on a half @ss attempt at group content just because players are demanding it.

If there is a demand, there are clients that are willing to pay $$$ for it. Some people were saying that story is great (including me), but mmo is not about singple player story mode, it is about MULTIPLAYER CONTENT. MULTIPLAYER GAME. We, clients of BW, are demanding MULTIPLAYER CONTENT in MULTIPLAYER GAME. So hard to understand? Instead of making a mmo game to became single player, they would just close the game and create new kotor. Simpler way. Right?

That is why im out of the game for now. Just waiting for new xpac to come out, do the story (because i like SW) and going off again. Now with new multiplayer content they would get more money out of me, because my sub would be on all time. But since they dont want extra money…. i might even not getting the new xpac and just watch the dialogs on yt.

I’ve done the last thing, it’s Youtube content. Hardly worth paying 15$ monthly for. Even if they do add multiplayer content, what would it be at most? A flashpoint, an ops with 4 bosses? They have a horrible record already, no evidence to believe that suddenly out of nowhere they will pull out a content heavy expansion.

Well McDonald’s does sell Chicken Wraps and various new style Chicken Burgers now, so actually there are some things you can get there that are in direct competition with KFC products. So McDonald’s has adjusted their menu. Also Operations were part of the menu for the first 3 years of SWTOR, so that’s another reason why your comparison fails. And of course we do not actually know they are not happening because BWA refuses to grace us with a simple no whenever the question is asked. Now, I do not believe they will bring out new ops, but that’s believing, not knowing.

SWTOR once had ops, two years ago… A pity they are not as adaptive as McDonalds then. But hey, as long as people are paying it’s not the company who is foolish for taking the money.

And that I definitely agree with. Although you could think it good business to invest in building up more long-term relationships with your customers but yeah.

Ops are still part of the menu. Just because they aren’t new doesn’t mean they aren’t there, they are the equivalent of the Big Mac or Quarter Pounder. MeDonalds is trying something new with their wraps just like BioWare is trying something new with their whatever you call these new Xpacs.

Rescaling 5 years old ops for the N’th time and claiming it’s still part of the menu.. and pay montly for it. You think doing the same places for several years is fun and worth the price?

Your argument makes sense except for one small detail. This has always been a KFC. Just lately they have been selling us McDonald’s out of it. And i guess we could go somewhere else but everytime we ask the manager they swear its KFC still and our extra crispy is almost out of the oven.

Hopefully i explained this in terms you understand

I appreciate your last comment implying my mental deficiency. Anyway, there has not been new ops or multiplayer content for the past 2 years of the game’s 5 years lifespan. That’s not “recently”.

SWTOR is more like the run down local burger shop in the bad part of town, still open for business, but few people still eat there.

Sounds interesting looking forward to the new content and game modes, not so bothered with the nightlife event.
Don’t rush the op’s out either. Most raiding guilds I’ve been in were complete assholes.

See, it’s not because they where assholes, it was because to compete in high level raids you have to actually be able to play your class at a high level of competency. Most players do not meet this qualification and are told they are not good enough, even if they think they know how to play their class. Then those people who are not good enough complain that “raiders” are assholes.

That being said, until companies changes how raids are made and remove DPS checks and enrages, and make mechanics the most important thing, most high level raids will be undoable by most of the community.

Dude, avoiding incoming dmg is one thing, doing dps is other, but doing both is the key. Same goes for all classes. Heals and survival, tanks and mitigating dmg so heals wont die from hearth attack. And tbh, as former tank and dps in swtor i do like dps checks. As tank you must position boss so dps classes have easier life. All in group must work as team otherwise = WIPE! Some bosses are about doing perfect tactics, but some bosses are about dps checks and perfect tactics 😉

I think they have dumbed things down enough for the bads as it is. If your team can’t make the dps checks, then a proportion of your team are not that good. Narbutt below is right.

Nope they were assholes, not to me but to newer players.
I saw it in so many raiding guilds and they were all the same type of people, traits i see in so many op whiners on here sadly.

To bad you ran into assholes, though that’s not limited to “raiding” guilds, and there will always be the assholes in every game, every group, raiding or not.

It is because all raiders quit long ago. What you have left is masochists. Because it takes a masochist to replay the same ops/raids for five years. So I figure masochists aren’t the most pleasant folks to hang with.

I’ve been in raiding guilds and completed all ops hm and Nim (when they were still a thing) and got fed up hearing so called leaders with no social skills talking like assholes to the newer players.
Unfortunately they haven’t gone, I still see them on fleet looking for new recruits.
Been that way for years.

Add something cool to this game. Enough Cartel Market, and excuses. Learn from Blizzard (better engine, more balanced gameplay,etc,etc,etc).

There won’t be a miracle happening for TOR. There won’t suddenly be a content heavy expansion. All you get is money milking until it shuts down.

KoTET will be it, once it is launched there will be no more content for SWTOR. NONE, NO MORE!

Will they keep the game up, sure, some people will continue to subscribe, some will continue to buy CM packs, but as for content there will be no more ever!

The only reason KoTET and the trailer where made was because they already recorded the voice overs and started the Blur trailer before KotFE even released.

They will not tell you this, they will milk all of you subscribers and CM buyers for several months until you all realize this. Not telling you what is coming is a marketing ploy, if you don’t know what’s happening you will all stay subscribed and buy CM packs.

but they said they will make more content in 2017…yea i’m sure they would say that, they want your money!

Their team just moved to a new office, has less then 20 employees, lost all their main flashpoint/operations developers in Sep and Dec of last year, just before and after KotFE launched. Do you all think they suddenly hired skilled developers so they can make more group content? They could barely get KotFE monthly updates out on time, let alone the “extra” content. Let’s not even mention their desperate “subscriber rewards” program, that was not a subscriber rewards program, but KotFE rewards program.

Look at the servers, all empty, lowest since the game was launched and went F2P, the game is in worse state then ever, but hey, they had metrics right…

i could go on and on, good thing i stopped in Oct last year and never looked back, anyone looking for a modern themepark MMO that actually releases MMO content on a set schedule, we are talking 1 new raid, 2 new dungeons, 1 instanced world boss, new story content, other content, EVERY 3-4 months and I mean EVERY! try Final Fantasy XIV*

* it might start slow (combat, reading story) and have few voice overs in the original game (ARR 2013), but once you get past the original game and into newer content you’ll see what a modern MMO looks like, then you’ll wonder WTF SWTOR was, since it’s sure not as much story as your all thinking or group content!

That’s what I thought at first to (though not to the weeaboo extreme you seem to be implying), until I played it and realized it’s the ONLY modern themepark MMO, that’s not WoW. Though it puts out more regular content then most other MMO’s combined! every few months!

FF XIV is…not all that great. Terrible UI, bad housing elements, confusing class development and restrictive servers. Yes there are sections of it that are quite good, but it’s not all good or useful. Just the chat channels alone (and how bad they are) will make you rip your hair out.

If you really want something outside of SWTOR, try ESO. They have made MASSIVE improvements in the game and are still working on content and making it better. Plus you don’t spend about 3 weeks around around a town learning to cook.

FFXIV been out for 3 years and has more group content AND STORY then SWTOR and ESO combined. It has more of everything else you mentioned then SWTOR and ESO combined as well, I would guess you have not really played it.

If you have you wouldn’t be boosting SWTOR and ESO as MMO’s compared to FFXIV.

Most negative comments about FFXIV are hearsay from the horrible original 2010 release (that shut down), not the 2013 release.

Actually, my comments are based on playing the game earlier this year. I will grant you that the “world” is bigger, but the amount of quests and mission are roughly the same and usually simple “go here, kill this”. The endgame is almost nothing BUT group content, which means unless you have a group or guild, you have little to do. The only thing I liked about it was that you could learn nearly everything as the same guy, but the way it was set up made doing so a bit annoying.

Don’t buy me something, you can buy yourself a copy of Final Fantasy XIV and see what a real MMO is like! …WoW might work to, but unless you played it in the past I wouldn’t start now, unless you know someone

Then I would guess you don’t know what a theme park mmo is. I have found that most people who love themepark mmo’s and complain about FFXIV have not played more then an hour or two, if at all.

Other then WoW, FFXIV is the only themepark or MMO for that matter that is a “success” that is not B2P or F2P. Even then the only other one to mention that is of similar quality to WoW/FFXIV is GW2 and it’s F2P/B2P.

not bitter anymore, just sorry that others cannot see SWTOR for what it is.

the only way we will ever get another quality Star Wars MMO, is for this one to die, then in a few years they will eventually make a new one, though we will have to wait for EA’s deal with Disney to be the exclusive star wars games developers to run out.

Sadly, I don’t think there will be another SW MMO. They cost too much to make and the risk is too high, especially in today’s world of mobile gaming.

Very well said and people are just in denial or cant handle game mechanics like in wow.. swtor is the single easiest raid boss/class mechanic game there is and they are making it even easier this expansion. Pick any game.. even LOTRO offers more content then what SWTOR has become. RIP

With the amount of content WoW is getting lately it’s not even adequate to mention it anywhere together with SWTOR. What a disappointment.

So, storywise, how do they end it if these 9 chapters of KOTET are to be the end? With the exception of the Outlander dying in combat at the end (which could set things up for a post-SWTOR novel), all the ending scenarios I see are likely to end up rushed.

1. The Alliance falls, and this allows Zakuul to turn a seemingly apathetic Republic and Empire into puppet states, if not destroy them completely.
2. The Alliance destroys Zakuul’s Empire, disbands, and the Republic and Sith coexist in peace for a time.
3. As the Alliance’s war with Zakuul rages, the Empire and Republic see them (Alliance) as a threat. The entire galaxy is thrown into a free-for-all as 4 factions square off against each other. This could end with the Alliance coming out as the sole victor, or one of the other factions end up as the sole victor.

Well i know what happens in the story and it is the END, though i can’t tell you unless you really want to know and only in Private message. If you really wanted to know i can show you the source.

Please show the source, those interested can choose whether to read or not.
I’m very curious if TOR will be dragged as long as SWG was or will shut down sooner.

He obviously can’t tell you that because it’s A) super duper secret, and B) he doesn’t think you really wanna know it badly enough C) Disqus doesn’t have PM’s (and not using PM’s means it’s not really secret anymore and if you can’t be secretive about stuff, then where’s the fun in conspiracy theories?)… 😛

Reddit is your friend. Not only it has a thread with links to damanined story content so you can go and read it yourself, it also has a thread with summary of the entire story. Knock yourself out. I know I did,

This is dulfy’s site and they wont let me post it (removed my post), which is part of the reason i didnt post it the first time. respect. do a search reddit and other swtor sites.

That was in reaction to the “no group content”, but it is the best they can do.

I will guess right now that it will have few new mechanics, maybe old mechanics, but will be a far cry from normal flashpoint mechanics…more tank and spank, waste of time “group content” that’s really glorified solo content.

We need more conspiracy theorists here, where is your youtube account that contains an 8 year old video of where you detail why 9/11 was a hoax and the true purpose of chem-trails?

Good luck with SWTOR, one day you’ll wake up and see what they did to their game and why you have no one to play with on it.


He dont have a thing, if he ever had any info regarding to the developers plans, he`d show that a dozen times already.

My word – this game will live as long as market will be alive. And credit sellers. If credit sellers will go away – thats the sign that the game is going to die. At least there is no money to make on the side.

Right now its alive as it ever was, dont forget, its mid Autumn, new expansion is at the hand. Also BW have plans for at least 2-4 more years of content, just mine it, you`ll find this posts. There will be 3 parts of the Outlander story, then they have plans for other story. Which means game will live for at least 4-5 years from now, and possibly more. Its all about people who like SW, its not really about the game itself. Look at the number of RP guilds. People enjoy the universe and ready to pay for that.

And the main reason for this game to live – people giving money for the only Star Wars MMO. They will do it because SW is the most popular franchise in the world, as I remember, its even bigger than Marvel multiuniverse.

Trust me, until Disney will make something better, TOR will be alive. Things might change, but until there will be enough people to keep up the servers, and that is really a loooong time.

“My word – this game will live as long as market will be alive. And credit sellers. If credit sellers will go away – thats the sign that the game is going to die. At least there is no money to make on the side.”

I agree with this 100%, if the gold sellers disappear (and it’s not because BW somehow managed to block them all, which seems unlikely) then the game is truly taking its last few breaths.

I do however think the game is slowly and steadily dying, only that unless BW/EA shuts down the servers, it’s gonna take awhile, probably years. Mainly because it doesn’t attract a bunch of different type of MMO players anymore, which means a small core player base with some temporary influx of players who then grow bored and leave the game again. (sort of half agree with you there)

But, even for people who like SW, the content TOR provides in its expansions is nowhere near enough to make the player base thrive for longer periods of time since you burn through it way too fast. I went back to WoW, and the amount of content for Legion makes TOR look like a joke. I spend most of my time playing solo, except for the occasional PvP BG or dungeon (a.k.a. FP), and there’s so much fun stuff to do at max level for me.

Also, instead of spending money (or gaming the GTN) on cool looks, I have to play the game and do stuff to unlock them there, and it’s so much more fun and rewarding than the CM.

Well, you do understand that WoW is the most popular MMO in the world? considering there are even chineese farm bot simulators with over 100 mil fans too? And by NET income SWTOR is in top 4… something to think about. You can find this info by simply googling “most popular MMO”.

WoW playerbase is bigger than most if not all MMO put together. You cant simply compare WoW and TOR. Its like comparing tomato and watermelon. Both are red inside, sure 😀

I left WoW because of 1 simple reason – I got tired of farming. I dont like and I cant spent so much time ingame. TOR gives me some space here, I can play a little every day and still get alot of things.

Its all about preferences. Also, TOR is the only successfull sci-fi MMO (feel free to argue here, I`d love to try out something new in sci-fi genre). And the only MMO in SW universe. Like I said before, SW is the most popular franchise in the world right now.

Taking all this, SWTOR will go as long as Disney will allow it. If you dont know, Disney already made quite good SW game – SW Commander for mobile platforms. I play it sometimes.

We didn’t compare WoW to TOR. The comparison was made at launch. Remember, this was going to be the “WoW Killer”… Who made it? I don’t know, but it was there.

“4th Most popular MMO” does not equal revenue. Quite simply, you have no way to tell how well the game is doing, because EA won’t release the numbers. I’ve looked, EXTENSIVELY. The only thing they do is group TOR with all the other online games they have. Most of them multi-platform games:

Also, don’t forget the game is free-to-play. So the number of people playing it doesn’t mean revenue AT ALL.

I’m not saying it isn’t doing well. I’m saying: give me the numbers. Link some proof of that.

Right now the only way of telling how well this game is doing is going here:

And let me say, it doesn’t look good. Yes, I know this is Mid-Autumn, there’s a new pack on the way… Problem is, it’s been like this FOR MONTHS. There was a spike in server activity when KotFE launched, after that it’s been steadily going down hill…

First –
Second (quite old but still) –

A surprise entry in that top five is EA’s Star Wars: The Old Republic, which made $165m worldwide in revenue over 2013. That figure is comprised of subscriptions, expansion packs and microtransactions. Overall, the Star Wars MMO has a 6% market share.
Third –
Top Grossing MMO Games by Revenue, February 2016

1 World of Warcraft
2 Lineage I
3 TERA: Online
4 Star Wars: The Old Republic
5 Blade & Soul
Foruth –

SWTOR had the 3rd highest worldwide revenue of “Pay-to-play MMO” games in April

This are the links, not hard to find.

P.S. You can make your own conclusions out of this info. All I will say is that SWTOR is FAR away from closing down. Too much money invested, to much people still want it. A couple of disappointed raiders and an army of SW fans? Guess who`ll win.

I can find links like these until we run out of space here in Dulfy. I want OFFICIAL EA NUMBERS.

For example, in EA’s 2016 annual report they state:

“EA was the #1 publisher on PlayStation®4 and Xbox One consoles in the Western World for fiscal year 2016 based on available sources and EA estimates.
EA was also the #1 most downloaded mobile game publisher in calendar year 2015, according to App Annie.
More than 54 million unique players engaged with our EA SPORTS™ console titles during fiscal year 2016, up 65% from last year.
Star Wars™ Battlefront™ expanded our player base as more than 15% of Star Wars™ Battlefront™ players were new to the EA ecosystem.
In Q4, there were 9.4 million unique players across EA’s Battlefield™ titles.
The Sims™ 4 player base grew by nearly two-thirds throughout the fiscal year, and The Sims FreePlay on mobile reached 200 million installs life-to-date.
Madden NFL Mobile monthly active players grew 30% in Q4 over the same quarter last year.
Star Wars™ Battlefront™, a successful new franchise, sold in more than 14 million units in fiscal year 2016.”

Where are the numbers for The Old Republic? I can answer that for ya: NOWHERE! That should begin to tell you something…


Honestly not a single MMO will tell you the truth about its population. Last I`ve seen in SWTOR it was 2 years ago and 1 million subbed players a month, around 10 mil accounts.

Current numbers are around 500k subs. You can calculate numbers by visiting servers yourself. Starting planets and Fleets will give you basics, I think around 200-300 people. Also the same on other planets, same in FPs and OPs. So daily on servers around 1000-1500 players x 20 servers.

Lets say about 25000 stable online, around x10 offline, around x10 at all.

So active 250k subs, 2.5kk (2.5 mil) playing accounts, around 87 mil characters. Sounds like correct numbers.

500K, LOL, you mean 50K don’t you!

The game only had 1mil+ subs when it launched, about 500k when it went F2P (4 years ago), and has gone down ever since.

If the game had 500K it would have never gone all story.

i would wager that 80mil of those accounts are single character accounts that never got past level 10.

you need to check your facts, because your numbers are so wrong It has to be a joke on your part!

I dont think you can understand that, but there are different type of players, not only farmbots and raiding kiddos.

You seem to eager to prove that this game is not thriving, I wonder why. You got banned? @$$fkuked by dev team? Or on the contrary, not?

Go on, check all servers and prove me wrong. My numbers are from my own surveillance. Real numbers are from 300k to 600k, maybe more.

Around 1500 active players per server, constantly.

Lets say that average gameplay is 2 hours. Fluctuation of players are from 400 to 2000, so average is around 600 per hour online, 24 hours a day, 14400 per day different players, cutting down 80%, that dont play daily, so we get around 2880 players, +/- 100. So we get my average daily online.

SWTOR have 18 servers now, so average online daily is 3000*18 = 54000. Thats daily online. Real numbers are even higher.

Multiply this x5 for mid-active subs (2-3 days a week), x10 for all subs (1-2 days a week).
We get 270k and 540k accordingly.

Lets say, average player by now have 10 characters. F2P players have 3 characters.
We have 87 mil chars (since BW told us) and lets put average between 270k and 540k (it is 400k players with 10 characters)

So subbed players have only 4 mil characters. Other 83 mil are divided between preferred and F2P. Considering average non-subbed player have 5 chars, it is around 16.6 mil accounts.

So 87 mil – (400k * 10) /5= 16600000 accounts. (It was stated by BW or EA that they had around 10 mil accounts by now, google it.)Even if 90% of them are dead or suspended, it is still 1.66 mil of players.

If we go from the other side, again, that BW or EA stated that SWTOR had 10 mil accounts and 87 mil characters, it is about 8.7 chars per account. Assuming our previous calculations about character density per account, we get:

Pretty much the same picture, about 5% of accounts are paying subbs, so it is around 500k subbed players.

So I can freely suggest that SWTOR active player base is about 1.5 – 2.5 mil active players, who play at least once a week.

Go ahead, argue with that. Cant? Then STFU and GTFO. You`re not welcome here.

You do know there team is under 20 developers now right, that while their Oct 2016 financials where good for SWTOR, since then SWTOR has dropped off the EA’s books right.

You can go with your numbers or go play the game, if they had the numbers you said they wouldn’t be in the situation they are in.

But you keep listing your numbers if it makes you feel better. Ignorance is bliss for some people i guess.

20 developers – prove with link or GTFO.

Again, either prove your words, links, stolen documents, naked photos, anything, or go away.

My words are my own survelilance. Do it yourself if you dont believe me. Its average numbers, but they are pretty accurate.

Whats your point anyway? Dont like SWTOR? Go play something else. Whats your problem?

Exactly, I had already said that above, but he doesn’t seem to read things properly…

TBH I’m not a huge SW fan, started playing the game mainly for KotOR and because space stuff. And I’m more of a CRPG player than a MMO one (PS:T is my #1 game and “Torment: Tides of Numeria” is the game I look forward to more than anything). So I loved the lvl 1-50 experience in TOR, especially as an Imp agent and inquisitor, the way that could be role played is among the best I’ve seen in any RPG (playing an evil character can usually be described as “crap” in most games sadly) and miles ahead of any MMO I’ve tried.

I’m also not a fan of farming, but WoW still manages to keep me interested again due to the way they’ve given us who don’t enjoy stuff to do. While the dialogue is as much RPG as FO4 (as in not really at all), the open world experience and way I can just do random and different stuff there keeps drawing me back. Also, the world is more open than TOR due to it being a few huge continents compared to a few planets, which is an unavoidable drawback for pretty much every single Sci-fi game that spans across multiple planets.

But TOR tho, once you’ve played through all class stories at least once (and some twice or thrice), all the expansions, done all the FP’s multiple times, done a ton of PvP, gotten almost all achievements (besides the raid and starfighter ones), there simply isn’t much to do in the game anymore. Then there’s the last xpac which put me off a lot mainly because it killed the difference between my characters so much that there wasn’t a much point for me to play it through with all alts besides maybe 1-2 minutes of reward for each alt.

And the points you make about SW in general (which I pretty much agree on), this MMO has a bigger potential fanbase than WoW. It’s engine might be shit, but the main game is incredible and there’s a lot of potential fans that might want to play or keep playing the game if they add enough incentive for us to do so. (the activity on these forums seems to be a good indicator of that, even if some of it have to do with dulfy being a great site) And it seems like BW/EA have given up trying to gain more subs and different kind of players (which is a reason why WoW is still going strong in terms of subs), instead opting for the easy way with CC sales instead.

The numbers if SWTOR are very low as it is, worst ever…good luck on new content, servers stay open? sure, as long as some people will subscribe and buy CM Packs.

As for content, again what you saw in KotFE and KotET is so minor compared to other MMO’s, it’s pathetic.

Please, go ahead, show a comparison. What MMO has “really” more content then SWTOR? What updates except for pure cosmetics or different game modes for previous contents?

Game events? check
PVP seasoning? check
GSF? check
Solo starship missions? check
New OP or FP? Star Fortress check
New content? Eternal Championship check

Do you have access to EA and BW planning? Dont think so.

And last – if you dont like SWTOR – dont waste your time here. Please. Do something usefull. Wash your hair or something.

FFXIV, every major patch (3-4 months)
1 new raid, alternates between 8 man and 24 man, major even/odd patches
2 new dungeons
1 new trial, instanced world boss type
New story content
New other content
New features

FFXIV’s been out 3 years
typical group content
Raids: 11 unique
Dungeons: 47 unique
Trials: 23 unique

Open world mini bosses: 29
Open world bosses: 23
Daily & weekly hunts, kill mobs and named mobs
Daily zones (Factions): 8
repeatable quests (Leves): 100’s
Instanced training: solo and group
Dynamic world events: 100’s
Game event: seasonal and new ones events regularly (every month average if not more)
PvP: solo and group, objective and arena, dueling, season rankings and rewards
minigames at least 10 & Casino location
Treasure hunting and special treasure hunt dungeon
Companion missions (2 systems): companion solo missions and teams of companions missions
Conquest style system (Wonderous tails), except you don’t capture meaning less nothingness
Group/Guild quests and exploration missions
Guild Airships
Housing solo and guild

Oh and did I mention story…yes story exists in other MMO’s, main starting story, major update stories, expansion stories that take more then a few hours, days or weeks if your slow, etc

I can go on with more feature if you like, SWTOR is a joke as far as “content” is concerned, the only things it has going for it are full interactive voice over story (even if it’s short) and companions out the ass, oh yea and it’s Star Wars, but sometimes putting the name Star Wars on something just isn’t enough…

FF? Come on, do better than a eastern MMO comparison. They are made for farmers, not many western players indulge in that kind of thing. Give me a western MMO, WoW aside, that has more content than SWtOR.

FFXIV is not eastern, even though it’s made in Japan, shows our ignorance as what an eastern and western mmos are.

Actually look stuff up, SWTOR is not a content MMO.

I don’t general say this, but your an idiot!

Btw, if you surf more posts of that Dakit dude, you`ll find that all of his posts are pure panic and whine 😀 And he says all the same for about half a year.

For example he said that there is no sign that second season aka KoteT is going out 😀 Yet here we go – KotET is at the hand and that dude keeps telling that there will be no more things again 😀

My projection on KoTeT was wrong, but only because I didn’t think they had the voice overs already recorded…they have no more voice overs, there will be no more new content this time.

I was salty with KotFE at first, I played this game for 3+ years and they turned it into the laughing stock of MMO’s.

So why you keep posting about it?

Isnt it because you want SWTOR to be better? Why all the pain?
It will go again on good rails, just have faith. If you dont, dont spoil this game to others who still love it.

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