SWTOR Big Gearing Changes in KOTET

SWTOR is making some big gear changes with the launch of the next expansion such as removing PvP gear.

Gearing Changes in Eternal Throne | 10.17.2016, 03:44 PM

Hey folks,
One of the things we talked a bit about on the stream is that there are gearing changes happening with Knights of the Eternal Throne. This thread is meant to give you a few more details on some of the things that will be happening in KOTET, along with being a place that I can address questions or concerns you have with these changes. First, here are the details on how gearing will work at level 70:

  • Once you hit level 70, the source of end-game gear will be Command Crates from Galactic Command.
  • Most activities in the game will earn Command Experience Points (CXP), which will earn you Command Ranks. Each time your Command Rank increases, you earn a Command Crate.
  • The higher your Command Rank, the better gear that will drop from your Command Crates.
  • The highest difficulty Operations and Uprisings, along with Ranked Warzones are intended to be the fastest ways to earn CXP. This means they are the fastest way to get the best gear.
  • Both PvP and PvE gear will come from Command Crates. Their gear is now shared as Expertise is being removed (head to this thread to discuss PvP/PvE itemization specifically).
  • Gear will no longer drop from bosses as all gear will come from Command Crates. All cosmetic/unique drops will still remain on those bosses (Stronghold Decorations, Wings of the Architect, etc.).
  • Players will be able to craft comparable item level gear without set bonuses.

That should cover most of the basic changes coming to itemization in KOTET. I know this is a lot to take in, so please ask any questions you may have in this thread and I will work to answer what I can!

-eric

PvP and PvE Gearing in Eternal Throne | 10.17.2016, 03:45 PM

Hey folks,

As we talked about a bit on the stream, there are some gearing changes happening with Knights of the Eternal Throne. The purpose of this thread is to go over how these changes will impact PvE and PvP gearing. Here are some more of those details:

  • Expertise is being removed from the game.
  • Any color crystals which have Expertise on them will be converted to a new type of color crystal – Mastery.
  • There is no longer an Expertise requirement to get into Ranked Warzones, this will be replaced with a Valor requirement.
  • PvE and PvP will share the same gear in Eternal Throne.
  • Crystals and Warzone Commendations will also be phased out in Eternal Throne, we will have more details on our conversion plans in the coming weeks.

That covers an overview of how the changes will impact PvP and PvE gear in Eternal Throne. Please let me know of any questions you may have and I will work with the team to get you answers.

-eric

Gearing Changes in Eternal Throne | 10.17.2016, 03:57 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Jerba

  • What happens to Priority Ops?

Priority Ops will no longer exist. They are sort of replaced in that Operations can be the daily bonus, which will award bonus CXP for doing them.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rolodome

Is there a cap to command rank? As in, for example, you reach "level 100 command rank" and you can progress no further?
EDIT: Also, will any of this affect gearing prior to level 70?

There is a cap. When you hit the cap you continue to earn CXP and fill your bar so that you "level." When this happens and you are at the cap you will get a Command Crate but not level up.

No effect below level 70.

-eric

Gearing Changes in Eternal Throne | 10.17.2016, 04:05 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by JackJack

3 questions
1. Just to clarify, you only have to hit level 70 to access command ranks, and not complete KOTET story, correct?
2. Is there a max level for command ranks?
3. Once we hit that level, will there be any other way to obtain rewards that we didn’t get?
Thanks

1) Correct, you only need to be level 70 to access GC.
2) Yes there is a max level (still in flux)
3) Yup

Gearing Changes in Eternal Throne | 10.17.2016, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamtas

also, what happens to all current commendations? do they turn into points or just rendered worthless?

Current Commendations will be going away, we will have more details in the coming weeks on their conversion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by De-mu-noki

First of, are these random drops, that is to say that if I’m extremely unlucky I can’t get the best earpiece for my char at all?
Secondly, are you saying that if a player grinds H2’s for long enough he can get Nightmare gear?

  • Yup, the drops will be random. The item type is determined by your Advanced Class and the item rating is determined by your Command Rank (higher rank = higher item rating). Keep in mind that you can always earn more Crates and that you can disintegrate any duplicate or unwanted items into CXP to get your next Crate faster.
  • Yes. All end-game gear (level 70+) can be earned by doing almost any activity. However, someone doing Nightmare (Master) level Operations, as an example, will get there substantially faster than someone doing easy/solo content.

PvP and PvE Gearing in Eternal Throne | 10.17.2016, 04:18 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by ShadowLordIV

Since bosses will no longer drop gear in operations will there be lock outs on the operations?

Yup, lockouts will still remain in place. Although they don’t directly drop gear they will still drop their other cosmetic rewards and will be one of the best sources of Command Experience Points.

-eric

PvP and PvE Gearing in Eternal Throne | 10.17.2016, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pietrastor

Balancing will be the key. If doing Opses rewards, say, 4x the Galactic Points than anything else thus effectively dumps way more crates on you faster, then it will still be totally worth to do Ops and gear the fastest this way.

Bonus aside, it is the goal that fastest way to earn CXP will be through the hardest difficulty Operations and Uprisings, along with Ranked Arenas.

-eric

Gearing Changes in Eternal Throne | 10.17.2016, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomerMorisson

So how are F2P/Preferred players supposed to get OP-worthy gear after KotET launches?

F2P and Preferred players will be unable to earn end-game gear since they will not have access to Galactic Command (GC). If they were a subscriber who went preferred and had earned gear through GC we won’t take it away, but they will be unable to earn additional gear (through Command Ranks) until they subscribe. They can still get gear through Crafting, that is unchanged.

-eric

PvP and PvE Gearing in Eternal Throne | 10.17.2016, 04:43 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Tsillah

How can you do the hardest difficulties without having gear first? This seems contradictory to me. Surely you first need a decent set of gear before you can touch NiM?

Fair point, but that isn’t too dissimilar to how it works now. If you are someone who loves Operations, as an example. You may start in Story Operations to get your Command Rank up and gear up until your character is ready to move into Master (Nightmare).

In general the rule for CXP is that the more players that participate in content, and the harder that content is, the faster you earn it. Although it isn’t as fast a Master Operation, doing a Story Operation is still worth more CXP then doing Heroics would be.

-eric

Gearing Changes in Eternal Throne | 10.18.2016, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnEaKyMan

  • Will item rating give an advantage over other players with lower item rating gear in Warzones?
  • PvE gear focused on having more accuracy, what is the case for PvP?
  • Will the PvE relics as we know them now activate in PvP?
  • Will the gear from command crates only be relative to the players current advanced class discipline?
  • Will command crate gear Bind on Pickup, Bind to Legacy or Bind on Equip?
  • Can galactic command crate gear be planted into legacy gear?
  • Will you accept my friend request? I saw you and Snave are BFF’s and I feel left out.

I’ll take a crack at these!

  • Yup. Having an item rating advantage would mean that you have higher stats. In Warzones especially there would be other factors at play such as any stat optimization and of course individual player skill.
  • There will certainly be some gear that has Accuracy, but the current intention is that the armor sets will be moddable so you could always change the mods to add or remove a stat, such as Accuracy.
  • We are still working out exactly how this will effect relics.
  • It is based on Advanced Class, not Discipline.
  • The gear will be bind on pickup, currently the other items in the crates (such as cosmetic items, etc) are bind on equip.
  • Currently, the end-game gear that comes from crates is moddable so you can add/remove the mods.
  • We are now best friends SnEaKy

Gearing Changes in Eternal Throne | 10.19.2016, 08:45 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by ZambedosNB

1) Will all armor-type gear that drops from command crates have set bonus or will you need to progress to a certain Command level before you can start getting those?
2) Will the bolster remain in SM ops? Will level 50 players still be able to enter SM ops?
3) Currently if you’re going into an operation there is about a 5/8 chance of getting a piece of gear, since the ratio of piece to players is 5:8. Can we expect anything near 5/8th of a Command crate for completing an op or is it much more/less? I’d imagine it will be tweaked some since before you could do SM ops all day long and not be working towards 224s and in this system you would be. However, if you can do two complete HM operations and still not get a single gear drop, I’d say the system is failing. While this can happen in the current system the odds are against it happening and there is also the chance for a better than average result: getting 2(+) pieces of gear from two ops. A sort of bell-curve type scenario whereas this new system is much more linear.

First off, keep the posts coming everyone! I am still going to try to answer as many questions as I can and I am continuing to pass your feedback on to the dev team. Now, for your questions:

1) You can get gear that has your set bonus as early as the very first Command Crate you receive at Command Rank 1.

2) Bolster will still exist in SM. If someone under level 70 is in an Operation they can still loot gear from the boss as they did before. It is when they hit level 70 that they will begin earning CXP instead towards Command Crates.

3) That is a fairly complicated question to answer, so, a few caveats. First, how many Command Crates you would earn from playing an Operation, for example, is dependent on a few factors. What is your current Command Rank, what difficulty is the Op, how many players are in the Op, etc. It is faster to level from Command Rank 1-2 than it will be at higher Command levels. The team is still turning the dials on CXP, but as we get closer to launch I will try to provide a more exact example of how much CXP you could earn in an Op/how many Crates.

-eric

Gearing Changes in Eternal Throne | 10.19.2016, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ligurio

Can you tell us if we earn CXP by killing a boss in an operation or do we have to actually finish the operation ?

If you are in an Operation you will get CXP for the following things:

  • Killing any enemy which is "Gold" or higher (this includes any bosses).
  • Killing the boss will grant each person in the Operation a BoP consumable which grants a burst of CXP.
  • If you queued through group finder, you will receive bonus CXP for completing the Op.

Gearing Changes in Eternal Throne | 10.19.2016, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlavivsAetivs

Hey Eric,
Will there be a weekly cap to CXP?
~ Eudoxia

Yes, there will be a weekly cap. However this cap is not being put in place to halt or slow progression in anyway. The purpose of the cap is a safeguard should some exploit or bug crop up which allows people to gain CXP in an unintended way. I can assure that cap will be really, really high!

-eric

  • EyesOfGehenna .

    wow, I need to let this sink in….that’s a major change in the set up of the game.

  • rippled

    I’ve been playing casually for years now, not heavy into end game gear progression any more, but these changes sound suicidal.

    Grind ops for a RNG loot bag of gear every X runs when you ding a conquest level? Seriously?

    1.0 PvP lootbox BS flashbacks…. I’ve seen shit….

  • Ben Gimson

    Genuinely interested to see whether the fanboys will actually be able to come out in force to defend this, um, ‘idea’…

  • John Kosto

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    • Jeffrey

      not long enough.

  • Nuno Bacharel

    Why care about Operations and learn their mechanics now…?

    • John Dullebawn III

      That is what the new players want, they use the excuse that they don’t have the time, 2 hours a week to learn ops is just too much for them to handle. Well they got what they want a 1st place trophy delivered to their inventory for not investing time or intellect.

  • IncuBB .

    Once you hit level 70, the source of end-game gear will be Command Crates from Galactic Command.
    Most activities in the game will earn Command Experience Points (CXP), which will earn you Command Ranks. Each time your Command Rank increases, you earn a Command Crate.
    The higher your Command Rank, the better gear that will drop from your Command Crates.

    What the fuck…
    What the fuck?!
    WHAT THE FUCK??!!!

  • Jamion

    I like the changes. We’ll have to see how they are executed, but other MMO have much better looting system than the antiquated one that SWTOR has been using. That’s not to say I don’t have concerns about the new system, but I do think it’s generally a good step and I look forward to seeing it in action.

    As for Operations we does those regularly any ways. Don’t see that changing.

    • fff

      >We’ll have to see how they are executed

      They have never executed anything well, not once!

      • John Dullebawn III

        ^^^^ thats the problem

    • guest

      Whatever drugs you are on I would like some please.

      • Jamion

        Other MMOs have implemented this system with extremely great success. This is not an original BioWare idea. The simple concept is this. Hard difficulty stuff will get you the gear the fastest, but you can also work your way towards that gear between the hard stuff. It incentives you to play all end game content and not just log in once or twice a week to grind out an op. Like I said other MMOs use this and it works brilliantly. I think your jsut really scared of change… I don’t blame change is scary, but “everything changes, even change changes.”

    • Meglivorn

      No, ops runners are whining becouse they see that someone who never run an ops will get the same gear as they did. Yes, it will be months later when they forget even what it was or have much better already but still… THEY WORKED SOO HARD FOR THAT, HOW THEY DARE TO…
      ^^
      Personally I had no problem with the current system and wait for the actual numbers and progression curve to judge the new one. The random box idea IS a bad one, sdince I like to plan my what order is the best for ne to obtain the pieces and how, but we’ll see.
      It’s too early to yell my throat out.

      • Jamion

        Other MMOs use the sort of system BioWare is introducing to great success. The Hardcore raiders will get the gear first, but it gives them incentive to work on other content between raids. It keeps you playing and it keeps you wanting to play.

        Now me and my crew we are going to hit the Hard Mode Operations as quickly as possibly and I expect to hit the GC cap as quickly as possible. The people that are whining now… they will whine no matter what. I have raided with some of them and they can’t stop talking about how great things used to be in vanilla WoW…. well screw them. The people that are whining here now are scarred. I don’t blame them for being scared, but I truly believe that this going to be a great system for the game (as long as BioWare gets the RNG balanced properly…) and it will keep people playing longer on a day to day basis. I suspect that as that happens it will drive new group content: Operation, FPs, etc

        • John Dullebawn III

          Ain’t scared of shit you especially, you will be the one wining when there are no players left.

          • Techne

            Um, your knuckles are dragging there, friend.

    • What other MMOs? Names please.

  • dzip.sys

    Buying what you want and need, paying with commendations, was – accourding to the stream – too confusing.

    That’s why we now get random stuff out of gamble packs — which means: maybe you never get a complete end gear set, because you have 50 belts and no headgear or similar.
    Not confusing at all.
    They now annoy and frustrate the player for no reason on purpose!

    • dzip.sys

      *according

    • de-chan

      Well you see… The problem consists of people (players) who are to stupid to play even a simple PC-Game ^^ … For example if they don’t now where to buy something the scream *ITS TO HARD MAKE IT EASIER!!!!* and the devs make a change so that everyone gets everything right into their inventories XD ..!
      In this case everyone will have the same RNG-chances on getting an item out of those boxes and the only things they need to do are A) do sth. IG e.g. H-Quests or so and B) klick on the crate in the inventory to open it and voila..!

  • pox

    Gambe packs for gear. They are on a good way, if the goal is to kill the game.

    • John Dullebawn III

      I agree they have to be doing this knowingly I mean no one can be this out of touch, changing things this bad this fast by mistake.

  • Ser JuJoo Guppy

    So, now to gear for ops, I now have to hope I actually get gear from this system…

    • NGE

      SWTOR’s NGE will finally arrive in Dec.

      Fight and die well, SWTOR!

      • Can’t wait for the next Star Wars MMO! I hope it’s soon :3

  • Yallida

    This is pure nonsense…

  • TMNJ

    Fucking genious. Only I started think that BW might be on their way to redemption, and now we get this.

  • keyb°rdbrokjn

    Oh boy. Why didn’t I expect that? I startet farming the highest Crystals on many toons, to hit 500 of them before KOTET is released.
    Of course they are removed with 5.0 (and conerted in something unknown).

    Why didn’t I expect that? Murphys law.

    I better stop this and don’t waste my time on this.

    • John Dullebawn III

      I did the same with exarch and ult exarch tokens as they give you Crystals from vendors. I bet I have 35 exarch and 14 ult exarch tokens lol

  • Dak Pax

    As gear is currently, one can rip out all modifications and drop into Legacy gear. This allows you to gear up one style of character (say, Sage/Sorc dps), and have multiples of that style without the need to individually gear up each one. This additionally allows you to gear up alts by getting set pieces, dropping into Legacy armor, and shipping it off (said Sage/Sorc dps gears up a Guardian/Jugg tank with the redundant tokens).

    So here’s a question:

    Does this spiffy new system do away with this Legacy armor perk? So if I wanted to run my Vanguard tank that I sometimes pull out for guild runs in a pinch, I have to grind like hell on that toon to make them worth anything?

    • I’d like to know this, too. If it’s all going to be static gear with no removable mods, they’ve just removed any reason to get legacy-bound gear.

      • John Dullebawn III

        Very good question

  • Tsvetan Dimitrov

    Good that i bought a founder pack for RO and that dulfy posted this guide :http://dulfy.net/2016/10/13/revelation-online-gearing-and-equipment-progression-guide/

    • v22i

      Does it have spaceships and light sabers?

      • Tsvetan Dimitrov

        who cares – it has raids and meaningful gear progresison

        • v22i

          I care.

          If you don’t care, there have been other MMOs–better than SWTOR–all the time, there was no reason–other than Star Wars–to keep playing SWTOR, for years.

          • Tsvetan Dimitrov

            Good for you then. Enjoy the grind

            • John Dullebawn III

              agree I played as I used to enjoy the community, that went to shit, and the raids were good quality. Not so much for the “Star Wars” even though it did add a little something. If this was ANY standard MMO it would have been dead 2 years ago its just the name keeping it going

  • Seph

    What the holy hell? I don’t even know what to say. I’m not sure I understand it. Or maybe I don’t want to as my common sense is revolting. So someone can in theory grind heroics on the right days to get top tier gear?

    • Nuno Bacharel

      Seems so, but if you raid, it will be faster ’cause you’ll get more CXP

      • dzip.sys

        Or you will be slower because it will take 3 hrs to get a full group… because everybody prefers grinding the faster content…

        • We already know that this is what’s going to happen. ^

          • Techne

            lol no

    • Gildor

      actually they say that an H2 will give much less xp than an ops, and you can’t infinite grind H2s you can only do then 1 per week, thats 71-73 H2 for imps and 69-71 H2 for pubs. And GC isn’t legacy is per toon.
      I will be very surprised if that gives you more xp than 2 ops.

      • dawgbone98

        IIRC, they also said you had to complete a full planet in order to get the CP from a heroic, and you won’t get any from the ones on the starter planet.

  • Devian
  • AdjeYo

    Could you fucking not, Bioware?

  • guest

    This might finally push me over the edge to finally uninstall.
    Talk about fucking MMO suicide.

    Not only are they removing obtaining the best gear from completing ops and warzones (the most difficult content), they are now tying gearing to yet ANOTHER LAMEASS RECYCLED CONTENT GRINDFEST.
    For fucks sake its like they had a meeting and asked everyone, “how can we suicide this game for good?”.

    You know what people will think now when you are finally decked out in the final tier of gear? Look at that poor sonofabitch with absolutely no life.

    I read the datamining about the command system, and although I was diappointed at it really not even being content but just another grind carrot, I thought to myself, “meh, no biggie I can just skip this lame garbage”. Well joke is on me I guess.

    The sad thing is that there was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with the existing gearing system.

    Gear was not at all hard to come by. Run KP or EV HM on half a dozen toons and you had a base 220 set just from the trash drops. Same with PVP. And I can’t even begin to imagine how irate pvpers are going to be about this.

    There is now absolutely no incentive to run ops or pvp. People are going to find the quickest grind and the handful who give a shit will just spam the quickest cxp. That shithead who lives in his moms basement and runs 8000 heroics and solo flashpoints all day will have better gear than ranked pvpers and NIM ops runners.

    This is also stupid because now most people have tons of toons. I personally enjoy playing many different toons on 3 different servers. But this FD up rewards system is going to force people to farm with the same toon.

    As if this was not all bad enough, RNG ENDGAME gear lootboxes? SERIOUSLY? For fucks sake.

    You want to reward multiple different kinds of content, fine, you already did that through the commendation system. You want to make that better, quit making the com gear so poorly optimized.

    In one fell swoop you idiots fisted both the pvp crowd and what’s left of the ops crowd. If 4.0 was a well lubed thumb 5.0 is a double dry fist. I hope you enjoy your servers full of basic attack spamming story warriors and ERPers cuz that’s all you’re going to have left.

    • I love your comment. If I could give it more than one thumbs-up, you’d know. <3

    • Jerry

      Yeh with no priority op system people will only ever do EV/KP and there will be no reason to do any other op. Theres not even any reason to do HM if you could do 2 SM’s in the time.

    • John Dullebawn III

      AMEN BROTHER!!!

  • Emprah

    There is one problem, but a BIG problem with this.

    The loot is random. If the boxes gave a commendation you could exchange for gear, I would be cheering here. Fuck ops and pvp, all hail heroics!

    • Ölmölmir Müff

      I guess they want to get rid of all non-casual players? Don’t know how they came up with level of stupidity. This is even for BioWare a whole new level of an idiotic idea.

      • Emprah

        I can only hope that the gear will be modded gear with non-bound armour items. Otherwise players will be totally at the mercy of RNG.

  • Randor

    Welp, this is the final nail in the coffin for my raid team. Half the team is F2P living on OPs passes, and now they can’t even gear without subscribing.

    Well, 5 years was a solid run!

  • AbnerDoon

    Honestly this is starting to sound like the EA BF series since #3. He who spends the most time in game gets the best gear. You can be a better player but you only spent an hour or two in game today.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/bb34f06d50e66124036fab6c5645d44eb3ac1dc11d3a70fa14b4e1e5baae1f1d.jpg Johnny No-life spent every waking moment and has the highest tier of armor and weapons. I hope you bring a squad because he is now a walking tank.

  • AdjeYo

    Why remove expertise? Expertise was a great way to give players something to strive for gear only obtainable (and only really very useful in) pvp. It was an awesome system, guess I should’ve seen Bioware meddling coming.

    • AbnerDoon

      Because just like Aim, Cunning, Strength and Willpower it is out of the understanding of the new gamers they are trying to cater too.

      • e0i9

        Like there are no other players you could ask, there are no guides on the internet, there is no tutorial page in the game.

      • AdjeYo

        Fair enough, though I personally don’t really care about the mastery thingy. That made little difference, but this is huge

      • KÖFTE(T)

        Most “new player” I meet are returning players, asking what the fuck happend to Cunning, Surge, Aim, Willpower. Or why there is no longer Expertise on their old PvP gear.
        🙂

      • But they’re removing the grind. I doubt that it’ll be difficult to get geared up with this Command system. It’s basically removing all incentive to run group content.

        • John Dullebawn III

          what part of this don’t you get you will need to grind MORE. Now you need to gain exp on every character to get good gear, then after you get the exp you need everything is random. So you will grind for hours and hours to get the head piece you already have. Re-Grind lol

          • I was moreso referring to the fact that stuff won’t be dropping in raids, and instead can be acquired through a solo experience. Also, we still don’t know if the gear will be moddable or not, so legacy-bound might make it easier.

            • John Dullebawn III

              Yea no info on that yet as far as modifiable armor, or at least if its all random drops don’t bind armor,hilts and barrels anymore it would at least be 1 step in the right direction, however we would still have the RNG issues for top rated Implants,Ears and Relics. Also from what I took from the article is that each alt needs the command experience to use the top level gear not just to get top level drops. If thats the case which I think it is then you would need to grind all alts to top exp levels to use the legacy gear, and deal with getting 5 chest pieces in a row due to RNG on top of that. Unless there is something HUGE they did not release in this article, this is by far their worst mistake ever, or their best move ever if they want to turn this into an online RPG or if they really are trying to kill this purposely

    • Johnny Wright

      Because it’s pointless to have a PVP stat just for the sake of separating PVP and PVE gear. Blizz got rid of it for WoW and it’s hardly the worst idea they’ve had.

      • AdjeYo

        But it’s not, it prevented top pve gear to dominate km pvp and vice versa.

  • Fred Garvin
  • Rip

    And theres the nail in the coffin…

  • No!
  • Unoshi

    lol

  • Seph

    So… if I understand correctly, PVE Gear now = PVP gear. But Ops give the best gear the fastest. So if you only pvp, you’ll be at a disadvantage against those that both do OPS and PVP for their PVP relevant gear. If that’s true, that is BS.

    • Becky

      They’re making a point of emphasizing that ranked pvp also gives a lot of CXP, so I wouldn’t rev up the waaaaahmbulance just yet.

      • AbnerDoon

        But who wants to do ranked after the rewards from this year? How many people that can’t do regular pvp will join up at the chance for better loot?

        This is what those of us still flying GSF get now during conquest weeks that reward for it. Groups popping in doing suicide runs throwing the match to get CP quicker.

    • reallynow

      PvE = PvP – Yes

      Only PvP and do nothing else? Yep disadvantaged. Broke too probably.

      Only PvE and nothing else? A little bit better shape because hurr durr Heroics.

      Imagine, you can do Heroics and get some fine ass top level gear…so you can grind more Heroics. The antisocial, “i’ll play the game how i want to” basic attack spammer will have equal gear with a raider who knows how to play a video game. Trophies for everybody!

      • Beroya

        So? The raider will get his set much faster, get a lot more use of it and will most likely never meet the anti-social player in-game anyway. Plus, let’s not sit here and pretend that finishing an OP is some grand achievement.

    • Liron Ben-David

      ops no longer drop gear all gear is from RNG lotto box you get as a reward from galactic command.

      • de-chan

        And the only positive fact is that the RNG-range is limited to your Class – e.g. if you open a crate with your *Powertech TANK* you will get an item accordingly (but what item is completly random!!!).

        • Tsvetan Dimitrov

          Is this confirmed? I read that from boxes you get gear for your advanced class, but there wasn’t anything about your current discipline

          • John Dullebawn III

            It would have to be, they would not, could not go as far as RNG for base class

            • Tsvetan Dimitrov

              After all the stupidity from BWA i’m not sure anymore

            • dawgbone98

              What if you are a spec swapper?

              Does the crate give you gear based on your current spec, or the one you were spec’d into when you got your crate?

        • gix

          How is this positive? With tokens you could buy what ever gear you needed. Tank, dps, whatever, it was your choice. Choice is good. Rng stinks.

      • Seph

        I get that. But what I heard is ops let you get there faster.

        • Stanley White

          they said ops and ranked get you there faster. so if you pvp and do ranked, you are on the same level as someone who does ops

          • Seph

            I see. Still digesting all of this.

          • dawgbone98

            Which would be fine if PvP ranked wasn’t just 4v4.

      • BrianDavion

        ugh RNG lotto boxes, blech,

    • Suoiciv

      We don’t know exactly if this is true. But we know the genius of BioWare. So 99% chance it’s true.

      X)

  • everything except “Yes. All end-game gear (level 70+) can be earned by doing almost any activity. However, someone doing Nightmare (Master) level Operations, as an example, will get there substantially faster than someone doing easy/solo content.” is blsht and they reached the goal to get rid of pvp and pve (ops) players, but who knows..

  • Jerry

    I suspect they are probably getting rid of the mod system in 5.0 too, and you will just get plain stat gear. Cybertech will be pretty much dead but they will probably give it something cosmetic instead.

    • Oio0

      If all gear turns into static gear, this will be the last day I log into this game.

  • Havik79

    So even though I know I am not fast enough for ops and do not do them, with enough grinding I can get ops gear?.

    • Yep! 🙂

    • John Dullebawn III

      YOU GOT IT!!!!!!

    • Techne

      Yep, we won’t be able to stand in front of the Sith Academy and be special snowflakes any more. It’s very painful.

  • Rip

    So someone who does a planet heroic or SM flashpoint can get the same gear as NiM brontes? HAHAHA.. cant wait to see how many players are left.

    • BM

      Hard to complain about this until you actually know what the time investment difference is. What if it takes months for a person to go the easy route and only days/weeks for people to go the difficult route?

    • Techne

      Yes, doing heroics or SM for months will eventually get you raid level gear. Or you could raid for it and get it in weeks, while enjoying the raid. Everyone’s happy.

  • Michal Placha

    This is so fucking dreadful…

  • Rip

    Dulfy, how can you support this type of game development? Theres no way I believe you think this is good. Please share your thoughts as a community leader.

    • I bet Dulfy spends most of her time in GW2 anyway 😉

  • MTCason

    Those decrying this as the ‘last nail in the coffin’ are a bit wide of the mark, I think. Consider this from the perspective of players who currently have no incentive to log in on a day-to-day basis. Now they DO have one. And a very valid one. This will add not only longevity to the game, but it will keep players engaged and active long into the future. That’s clearly the purpose and in that regard I think they are succeeding with flying colors. Many of us don’t do Ops. We don’t want to do Ops. We’ve had to resort to buying end-game gear and mods off the market (which I assume will still be possible, as nothing was said to suggest this stuff will be BOP). Now we can get it in our own right without having to spend untold millions of credits or slog through Ops that require a raid-level commitment in time. This is a perfect solution and I’m quite pleased about it.

    • Tsvetan Dimitrov

      People who log for a couple of hours in a week to raid won’t be able to. They have to grind their asses just to be able to enter NiM. No sane person would grind for several months content he doesn’t like just to be able to play (old) content he likes.

      • MTCason

        That’s the point, people no longer have to raid to get proper end-game gear. This allows an alternate route to that through more time-effective means. And it lets EVERYONE play the content they like to get end-game gear. Where is there anything bad in that? Other than for the elitists who want raids to be the only means of acquiring end-game gear. And they are few and far between.

        • Tsvetan Dimitrov

          You don’t get it, do you? Raiders don’t raid for gear, they raid because they like it.

          • MTCason

            And they can carry on raiding. This doesn’t remove Ops and they remain one of the best ways to get command points. Raiders have NOTHING complain about with this move. Not a thing.

            • Tsvetan Dimitrov

              Hell no. If i have to grind heroics and whatever just to get starting gear for HM and NiMs I better leave.

              • MTCason

                Where does it state you have to do that? This doesn’t affect anything until Level 70. You can carry on getting your gear however you like before then.

              • Tsvetan Dimitrov

                Don’t play dumb. You can’t finish HM in 208 today. And to get the equivalent of 2016 I’ll have to get 14 pieces, 6 of which with set bonus. With a RNG system. Fuck this.

              • MTCason

                You’ll have all of that LONG before level 70. It changes nothing at that gear level.

              • Tsvetan Dimitrov

                Dude, you obviously are not only a stupid troll but have a reading comprehension problems. Musco himself stated that the system will only work for 70 lvl players. And i’m done with you.

              • John Dullebawn III

                It changes everything. Wait and see lmao

            • John Dullebawn III

              LMAO nothing to complain about , gear is now random drops, no more can we run a boss to get a specific piece of gear, we have had no new content in 2 years. Ops have the same bugs they had 4 years ago. Don’t speak if you dont understand

              • Techne

                “gear is now random drops” – man, I played WoW for years, and I never got all the drops I wanted when raiding, because it was random. I always wanted a Thoridal, but I only ever saw 2 and I lost out on both of them. Nothing new about rng.

                “no more can we run a boss to get a specific piece of gear” – yes, raiding will be harder now for you. You don’t get gear handed to you automatically. If you raid for gear, you shouldn’t raid. If you raid to raid, who cares what drops? It might drop next time. We’ve been playing mmos that way for years.

                “no new content in 2 years” – yes, this is a real problem, seriously, and they should be ashamed. This is no way to run a game, we need new content regularly. At least a new dungeon here and there.

              • John Dullebawn III

                Still like your new gear system? Damn idiots messing up a game that was great a few years back.

        • John Dullebawn III

          If you don’t raid you don’t need endgame raid gear, if you raid you need it. If you don’t pvp you don’t need end game pvp gear. I dont understand why people want gear that they dont want to work for, or just dont need. And the whole “we dont have 20 hours to spend to run ops” is total crap. My guild ran a 2 hour weekly training operation group 3 times a week so everyone could make it to atleast 1 training session that got everyone up to speed.

    • John Dullebawn III

      No you will need to grind just as much as before. You thought it was bad to grind some creds to buy a piece? Now you need to grind, heroics,and FP’s ect to gear your gear. And if you read the orig post since the order was Ops/Fps/Heroics ect as far as what give the most points thats alot of hours. So instead of people running newer and increasingly harder content that teaches the proper way to use certain abilities and mechaincs and getting gear that way. Now you just grind the same old stuff you played a hundred times before for HOURS to get a random piece of gear that you prob already have 10 of. And last most players will never understand how to properly use their spec as they will not be forced to.

  • Oluf-Pelikan

    This is pure genius. People who left the game (and may return as a subscriber) ask for some stuff over and over again (people who are still subscriber want this too): Operations, Pazaak/Sabacc, … but what BioWare does: ignore all of that, instead they change things that aren’t broken at all. To annoy the remaining players and confuse returning players. And to appeal to some imaginary new players, who don’t get it how to play his mmo. Genius!

    • MTCason

      A handful of you are asking for Operations. The majority of the game’s playerbase is not. We wanted a means to get end-game gear without having to commit to a 7-10 hour raid every week just to do it. Now we can. That’s good for everybody. And the raiders can carry on raiding in Ops. This doesn’t stop that and I believe Musco stated that Ops will still be one of the best ways of accruing Command Points. There’s nothing to complain about.

      • Vendrine

        Yeah, absolutely nothing to complain about…. Except that gear is now complete rng, which is a complete f*** you to the high end playerbase.

        • MTCason

          You’re still getting gear for your specific class so it isn’t entirely random, no.

          • BM

            I don’t mind the new system, but I do agree with him. They should atleast make it so you can choose a slot or something. In pvp you get to choose exactly which slot you want to improve. In pve do certain bosses drop certain types of gear? Some randomness is OK but this might be a little too much.

          • John Dullebawn III

            MTCason we know exactly what you want End Game Gear, without needing to understand mechanics, proper gearing and REALLY understanding your spec and its rotation(s) and lets not forget today’s “I WANT IT NOW!!!!!” attitude. Yea its a game but at least when you looked over you max geared alt you felt accomplishment. And when I say mechanics I mean the true mechanics that are gone. 1 example using a PT as the OT on HM Walkers so you can use Oil slick on the MT to mitigate incoming damage when both walkers are focused on the MT ??? huh????. And now all gear is random lol. Everything that separated true End Game players from the weekend heroics warriors is now officially gone. We will have geared DPS running HM/NIM with endurance stims running, oh I forgot thats already here. FFS BW you finally killed the game congrats.

          • John Dullebawn III

            lmao random as in pieces head,chest,implant. My god

        • dawgbone98

          On one hand yeah.

          On the other hand, you no longer have to run an op for a single piece of gear, where you might have to roll against 8 people.

          I’ve lost the stupid offhand roll so many times I can’t even count anymore.

          Still not a fan of a lot of the changes, but this part here isn’t the worst.

      • chisscake

        why do you need end-game gear if you’re not doing ops,seriosuly what’s the point

        • Jextorr

          ^ This seriously says it all.

      • Naq

        “7-10 hour raid every week” Wut? How? Did they add new 7-10 hour raids?

        • AdjeYo

          The hyperbole is strong with that one 🙂

        • John Dullebawn III

          whats even more sad than players buying 7-10 hour raids I guess BW bought their moaning too!!!

          • Naq

            …if your raids are taking 7-10 hours, you are probably better off reading the articles here on Dulfy on rotations and gearing strategies, and maybe heading back to doing tacticals for a bit. I am doing my best to not say “Git gud.” and be nice about this but holy gasnorkidees.

      • John Dullebawn III

        well with the old system 2 hours a week in a newbro raid team you could have geared. Now you will need waaay more than your 7-10 hours a week to just get the command exp to get to your max command level. Then you will be playing for hours and hours just to get a command pack that already has that chest piece in it you already got 5 times before. In 3.0 there was no reason to complain about not having end game gear, in 4.0 with priority ops it was stupid easy with about 2 hours of raiding a week. Now you will need to play 20 times that much to get random drops. And also SINCE YOU DON’T RAID YOU DON’T NEED RAID GEAR. Congrats it was your complaining that got you here, enjoy your dead servers.

  • Zulu Ren

    In a nutshell: BioWare has lost all connection to the playerbase.

    • MTCason

      Just the opposite.

      • Rompe Himself

        Enlighten us on how you came to this belief. Today’s announcements have been a barrel of laugjs and facepalms so let the humour continue with how you think Bioware has not lost their collective minds.

        • kirk

          to be fair the creative minds that were behind KOTOR, ME, and the begining of Swtor are all long gone, and bioware is a shell of its former self.. they should just change the studioname to EAware

        • MTCason

          The playerbase wanted a means to acquire end-game gear without having to raid. This is it. The playerbase wanted an incentive to continue to log in on a daily basis and a means of max level progression. This is it. What part of this is bad? State it. Let’s hear it. Unless you’re just here to spew more condemnation without any cause.

          • Don Loco

            Considering the average player can hit those five levels in a few hours I fail to see what part of replay the same stuff all over (yet again!) equals as end game.

          • Rompe Himself

            Because no skill is involved in obtaining the best gear anymore with KOTET and maybe that is what the casuals who have no idea how to play want – this game to give them the best for minimal effort. After all they gave the companions steroids to help the shit casuals, why not give them the best gear now too without running ops since there are no more future ops to come.

            Bottom line I guess is that BW needs to cater to what is left which are the casuals who struggle with completing content which is just sad when swtor is one of the easiest mmo’s of all time.

            • Vincent van der Laan

              i agree this is such BS

          • lockstockbarrel

            So, you think everyone wanted gear without making effort? no, they didn’t. You think everyone wanted new things to log in and do daily? yes, but repackaged old content is exactly the opposite of that. What part of this is bad? All of it.

      • ScicleX

        You’re the reason hackers decide to track addresses through the internet to attack people at home. Your views are biased and your attitude behind them is horrendous. Please go be Amish.

        • Don Loco

          Don’t inflict that person on the poor Amish, they really are not that horrible.

        • Rompe Himself

          Not that I want to be defending MTCarson when he is clearly a BW/SWTOR fanboi who thinks the shit they are handing out is actually gold, but he/she is entitled to their opinion even if it is clearly biased and wrong.

        • dawgbone98

          I don’t like your opinion, you should be attacked!

          Seems reasonable.

  • Leah

    I was wondering if they would make preferred less punitive, but instead… they make it MORE punitive by removing even more gear acess :/ that’s ok bioware, I do have other games i could be playing.

    • Farlas816

      Well put!

    • kirk

      yeah i stopped subbing around a year ago, and with the announcement of this expansion i have informed my guild/raid team that i am Finished with the game and moving on to greener pastures.

      • Trumpcat

        And you were late, to be honest.

  • Jeffrey

    Thanks to these news, new players are flooding back into the game….

    Current players are drowning in the floods.

  • Jeffrey

    After 2 long years, endgame raiders have finally gotten what they wanted.

    Said Bioware Representative

  • Jeffrey

    Bioware is the best troll gaming company I have ever seen. True apprentice of EA

  • kirk

    whats the point of level cap increase when you provide no new Endgame? why more gear when looking at all the same endgame as they’ve had for years now.. this game is just gone down the garbage shoot and nothing but a crash grab for EA now.

    • MTCason

      This IS end-game. It’s the first time in 5 years we’ve had one in any proper sense.

      • kirk

        you sir, are a moron and have no clue what you’re talking about.. endgame for swtor has now been dead officially for 2 years.

        • MTCason

          This is an end-game system. What part of that isn’t making it into your thick head?

          • HMHero

            the part where endgame in an mmo implies new content, yes this is a new endgame system but it’s recycling of old content is unprecedented, or rather, it’s only precident is Swtor for the last 2 years

        • Jextorr

          I think you missed his point Kirk. He is saying the game is ending due to these choices. Hence it being content at the end of a game. Kudos for the clever and sadly accurate wording MTCason 😉

  • frickenWaaaltah

    Asked this in the original info thread but no one is looking at it anymore:

    “Must be a Premium player (subscriber status) as of December 2, 2016 to play Knights of the Eternal Throne.”

    Wait, really? If you aren’t subbed on Dec 2nd 2016, you missed it?

    • MTCason

      When it launches, you must be a subscriber to access the new content. That’s nothing revolutionary.

      • frickenWaaaltah

        Are you sure? I mean I’d assume that, but that’s not what it literally says.

        What it literally says literally means that those who do not subscribe on December 2nd will not be able to purchase this content in the future, which is something they actually have done a lot with monthly rewards like Nico Okar and special access chapters, otherwise I’d just assume they failed at speaking accurately.

        • Neg Sani

          Yes, we’re sure.

  • Jeffrey

    F2P and Preferred players will be unable to earn end-game gear since they will not have access to Galactic Command (GC). If they were a subscriber who went preferred and had earned gear through GC we won’t take it away, but they will be unable to earn additional gear (through Command Ranks) until they subscribe. They can still get gear through Crafting, that is unchanged.

    Pay2Win Confirmed ^

    • MTCason

      So a subscription is now Pay 2 Win?

      • Jeffrey

        There’s a difference between using an ops pass, completing an ops and getting gear and subscribing to get gear.

        That is a PAY 2 FUCKING WIN system

        • MTCason

          How do you figure? You can still get gear by buying it on the GTN. You can still craft it. None of those things require a subscription.

          • kirk

            you cant buy gear when you’re limited to 350k, and in no way for a 4 yr veteran of the game, does this game merit a subscription with the garbage its producing , or lack there of any new endgame content or anything fun for someone who mainly enjoys playing with friends, raiding on a competitive level (that now hasn’t existed for 2+yrs)

            • Dread Master Ozariah

              Yeah well, you couldn’t buy best gear even before those changes, so literally speaking – nothing changed to be honest. f2p and preferred players still in the same boat they were, just with different rules.

              • Bobbie Bowman

                How is that true? Pre-5.0 f2p players could obtain top gear, after 5.0 they would not be able to do so.

              • Dread Master Ozariah

                They still can buy it off gtn, should anyone craft it? No ops thou, ye, that sucks. As a sub i really hope BW will change this bullshit to be used by everyone, sub or not.

          • Jeffrey

            it’s still not the best gear. A f2p player can still complete nightmare ops without having to subscribe. Nightmare ops drop the best gear. Now, they cant even do that unless they subscribe.

        • Neg Sani

          You can make that argument and I don’t think it’s completely off base. To ease concern about this you should be able to bank up CXP to redeem for when you do subscribe. That would provide a huge incentive to subscribe.

          • John Dullebawn III

            I am not defending this new system by ANY MEANS its horrible and its the end for me after a lot of years playing. But for the FTP guys there will be crafted gear close to what the crates drop. So yea if your FTP you need to do xtra work to buy the gear instead of getting points. However the bottom line is if your a sub and don’t like this drop your sub and uninstall, or if your FTP/Preferred and don’t like this quit the game and uninstall. Other wise next year you will be complaining about another terrible xpac.

        • John Dullebawn III

          End Game is not “winning” its a perk us pay to play guys have. Its that simple. get over it lol. You pay nothing and get to experience 8 decent free storylines thats not enough for free?????

      • John Dullebawn III

        Oh yea don’t you know? If dropped out of school and you flip burgers at Burger King you deserve do drive a BMW, and if you dont pay anything to play a game you deserve everything those that pay for it have too. Its called Entitlement, its today’s way of life!!.

    • Ser JuJoo Guppy

      This is in fact technically true; subscribing will now give you better gear and a better edge. So he isn’t wrong exactly.

      But I also think if you are playing this game that much, you should sub to help keep it on life support.

    • Mike

      Too many entitled millennials……..get a job. All good mmo’s should be sub based anyways. F2P players need to keep their mouths shut because that is all they are. Unless you are spending money in the cash shop equal to a Sub, nobody cares what you think.

      • kirk

        swtor is no longer a good MMO, it doesn’t even produce MMO content.. its now a glorified monthly subscription Single player title. it threw out the right to be called an MMO when it stopped producing endgame content over 2 yrs ago.

        • Techne

          “a glorified monthly subscription Single player title” – I’ve played this as if it were KOTOR 3 with lots of erratic npcs running around acting nuts, and I’ve been very happy. I’d love an actual single player monthly title, if they’d just give us content.

      • Fred Garvin
      • Emprah

        Games used to be “pay for it once”, boy. Let me tell you a bedtime story.

        When I was a kid, I went to a store and bought a game with real money, not this internet or bank card nonsense, but real cashy spendy money. Than that game was mine until the end.

        Than came the days where this evil cad, Blizzard, found this subscription made by eviler but less popular minds, and made it mainstream.

        Now, games suck and you have to pay over and over and over again for the same game! If it is not subscription, its DLC. Its a horrible time to live in.

        I know it sounds impossible, but for once the millenials are right.

    • John Dullebawn III

      The crafted gear is not the same as the GC drops.

  • Jeffrey

    Everyone is different. Saying that please allow me to share how I feel. All that grind, all that comms and min/max pvp gear for each and every toon collected over the years, all those guides to gear up your toons, all those collected tokens. Then you tell me that after building a solid game (Yes I feel SWTOR was solid until the end of shadow of revan – Pre-KOTFE) all those countless grind hours are meaningless because you decided the game has turned casual enough that pve gear is now pvp gear. There’s no way this is a QoL. Maybe to someone who doesn’t play enough to understand the grind and is happy they won’t have to play extra time to get pve and pvp gear separately.

    To me, QoL is what they did with datacrons. Finding them spreads their bonus across all toons. THAT was a major improvement.

    How is it that the game will reach level 70 and players are still at legacy level 50? How about new rewards? New bonuses from legacy? Why does this not matter anymore?

    Because grind is no longer meaningful in swtor. Anything even remotely close to grind is being changed or removed.

    Casual gamers are taking over the industry.

    • Neg Sani

      >How is it that the game will reach level 70 and players are still at legacy level 50? How >about new rewards? New bonuses from legacy? Why does this not matter anymore?

      I think this new Galactic Command system begs the question, why didn’t they just increase the Legacy level cap to 100 and tie rewards to that instead of inventing yet ANOTHER grind module. Do the people that designed Legacy not work there anymore and that module just baffles the current programmers?

      • Brent

        If they tied GC crate drops to Legacy, why would anyone bother grinding more ranks for undesired crates anymore?
        If I reached Rank 50, and got the best gear for myself and all my alts through plugging them into legacy, would I even bother doing more content?
        Hence, how would BW ever earn my subscription monies ever again? I could just play Preferred forever.

        Being able to plug in gear to Legacy gear slots was never the intention of BW, it just happened that it worked when someone tried it in game, and they never bothered to restrict it afterwards anymore. They just let it be.

        There’s rarely any other MMO which allows sharing your high end gear with ALL your alts ever created. It’s a slap on the wrist for developers, because it circumvents grinding on all your other alts. Grind = Subcription = More monies for dev.

        So if i grinded my main Juggernaut and got to level 70 blah blah… did some shit and got all the end game gear, which I can transfer to my alts… I would not pay another penny just to use the Galactic Command loot crate bs.

        They did it so each of your alts has to PLAY, GRIND, and SPEND TIME.

        I hate it too, but what can we do…?

    • John Dullebawn III

      Preach on brother!!!!!

  • ROCKING RED REAPER

    The only good I see out of this is the fact that I can actually get nightmare level gear cause I don’t do enough ops to get even hard mode gear so I’m excited for that and I sub anyways so nothing wrong there and I personally have no qualms with pve gear being the gear for PvP too but what I think would be cool is that the vanity gear in the command crates would be old ops gear like the Kell Dragon gear and the dread master’s gear and some of the classics from level 50 and 55 plus maybe throw in some tuning and I would do it cause I love the Kell Dragon knight gear kinda like the level 60 starter token gear for knight except it lights up and I would like the dread master gear for my sith toons.

  • Vincent van der Laan

    why the fuck combine pvp gear and pve and wtf why the hell remove ops gear o.O now everyone can get nim ops gear basicly so useless o.O

  • Kubrickian

    That is the final nail in the coffin for progression based guilds who gear up from the boss drops in HM & NIM.

    • Trumpcat

      The progression based guilds did their progression two years ago and quit, since there hasn’t been content since then. Now you have just follow-up guilds that are trying to do what others accomplished.

  • Vincent van der Laan

    this is what happen forums f2players Ya its so hard to get good gear bioware is like ooh ya we wil fix that we listen to players who play for 2 months and ragequit then because it is stil to hard with fucking companions who 1 shot and where u dont need to gear them we fix it players who have been playing since beta been regular subs yo we want more end continent and harder challeges bioware is like ……. ignore ignore

    Bioware deliver team ya we have some awsome news end continent doesnt mather anymore no more ninja looters instead go on with ops its good for u ooh wait there was stil pvp lets remove expertise as well and make it fair to Noobs who already gotten their way with removing gear for companion s and get over powered companions with the perfect system of comand ranks ya u stil get points 3 mon ths latter every noob has max lvl comand rank and basicly nim ready ops gear who gives a shit its easy for them 😛

    • Emprah

      Did you forget that you’ll only get gear if you subbed?

    • Vincent van der Laan

      i know 😛 but stil its BS preffer gear trough opsing it gives me purpose

  • John Dullebawn III

    One last comment then I am gone. Congrats 1st place trophies for everyone!!! Everyone is equal.LMAO

    • Emprah

      Short bus person, you know that this will scr ew non subscribers deep and hard? Trophies will be strictly earned only if you pay more.

      • John Dullebawn III

        Not talking about FTP, if your FTP you will ALWAYS come up short, and shorter with each expansion thats how this system works, if you don’t understand that by now your the one riding the short bus.

  • chisscake

    “people who don’t want to do ops will be able to get end-game gear without doing ops”-why do you even need end-game gear if you’re not doing ops? what for? heroics?
    also random items in packs that’s just great, you’ll get 50 belts and 70 cuffs and no chestpiece

    • Mattador

      On the bright side, he says duplicate items can be converted into CXP.
      Looks we’ll be getting a lot of CXP, in that case. 😐 I miss comms already.

      • StarlaBlaise

        I wonder what’s the converting rate will be? 10:1?

        • John Dullebawn III

          ^^ exactly

  • Whitedragon
  • jaydog

    People keep saying it’s the ” casual players fault” and that hurts because i consider myself one due to the simple fact that i no longer had the time to dedicate to the game like before. I still maintained my main toon. I still enjoyed doing hardmodes and nightmare modes on my main toon. I enjoyed when i had the time, to join up with a group of competent players and work for hours to learn the mechanic of a new/hard raid just to get the new gear. It was a challenge. And it was rewarded.

    Now? It’s a joke. I can’t even defend this game anymore. Not even for the story. I stayed subbed to support a game that i enjoyed. Not for it to become pay to win. Hell, after today i won’t even ask my friends to try this game out. I will do the story of KOTET and that will be the end of swtor for me.

    • Dread Master Ozariah

      How exactly it is pay to win? P2W systems means you buy some over-powered gear without any efforts in-game. There is no such thing in swtor or in those notes.

      • Ominus

        because if you won’t sub – you won’t get the Command crate stuff, and thus you won’t get the end-game gear. You can’t participate *well* in warzones, nor do you get your gear from Operations bosses anymore, or be able to properly roll through it, I guess.

        • Dianiss RG

          …and that’s Pay-to-Play, not Pay-to-Win. P2W would be, in the context of 4.0, being able to buy better-than-224 gear on the Cartel Market for real cash–especially if that is the ONLY way to get such gear.

          • Ominus

            And how do you get the best gear then, after this patch? Nowadays you don’t need to pay for it – you can earn it through warzones or operations itself, not by being a subscribes. Granted – you’d need equipment authorization, but even that you could try to get through ingame credits with help of friends.

            No, with the new patch, if you want to get the best gear, you gotta pay up and be subbed, else you won’t get it. Sounds like P2W to me, only more cleverly disguised than ”buy it off our cartel market!”

            • Jojo

              Youre STILL getting it by playing warzones and ops etc. You just have to be subbed to access that content through the new menu.

            • Cuervo Fúnebre

              Or, as he said CRAFT it. That’s maybe boring, but getting it from crates instead of crating is a little bonus as subs.

              • John Dullebawn III

                yea you can craft some gear but not the the same gear that these crates will drop. No set bonuses and I am sure there will be a few other things that lessen the quality of crafted gear.

            • John Dullebawn III

              you are describing Pay to Play, this is a SUB game with some FTP content to wet peoples lips. Pay to Win would be if they add better gear than SUBS can get playing the game to the Cartel Market.

            • Dan Santos

              SWTOR is a PAID GAME with a really wide DEMO (so called “free to play”)

              Can you play for free? You can.
              But you want to reach all the content with no limitations? Then sub. Because, again, IT’S A PAID GAME.

              How hard is it to understand?

          • Emprah

            Even that would be better than drop crates. I could just unsub and buy the better gear.

          • John Dullebawn III

            Wait and see the new Galactic Command Crate random packs will be on the Cartel Market I guarantee it. Since the FTP people cannot get them, that will be their reasoning for doing it.

        • Jennifer Smith

          That’s not pay to win, that’s a standard subscription model. And you still have to grind the rank for the crates. Pay to win is buying the OP gear in the cash shop with no in game effort, only how big your RL wallet is and how deep you’re willing to dig. Can’t do that in SWTOR, the only cash shop gear with mods is level 40-42 requirement, not useful in endgame. People love to sling the term pay to win around, with little clue as to what it actually means…

    • Trumpcat

      No, playing Eternity Vault since 2012 IS FUN and you should be honored to pay for it!

      • Emprah

        Make Catmerica great again!

        • Trumpcat

          We are going to build a cat litter!

    • John Dullebawn III

      I agree all my friends on EVE that ask about another good MMO to try, I will be steering them and RL friends as far away from this as possible, such a shame 3 years ago that would have been the exact opposite.

    • Techne

      When they call you ‘casual’ they don’t mean the amount of time you spend in the game. Read the posts closely. You could spend 10-14 hours daily in the game, leveling alts, crafting, earning obscure achievements, and you’d still be ‘casual’ to them because… you don’t raid. And if you do raid, you don’t raid at the right level. Or you raid at a high level, but don’t raid with the right guilds. And so on. This is merely a particular form of narcissism, it’s not anything you or 95% of the player base needs to worry about. Play the game however you want.

  • Adamant

    Congrats to BW, they have discovered the ultimate endgame mode: masturbation. The only thing is: why should we sub for it???

    • Senya Tirall

      Better to rub for it than sub for it.

      • Captain R

        Senya knows better, heh? 😀

        • Senya Tirall

          I’ve got several things that are rubbable. Gotta take care of these things yourself when your husband is a non-corporeal asshole.

  • sentientomega

    How are lowbies going to gear up with 5.0? We used crystals to get components for outfit shells, but when crystals are gone, how will low-level chars upgrade?

    • Neg Sani

      Meh…I haven’t really seen the need to gear your character as you level. With level scaling and buffing in warzones, FPs, and OPs gear rating is pretty worthless for anything but ranked, HM/NiM ops. I was level 50 and wearing level 10 gear and doing just fine in most cases and last week I did solo heroics mostly naked.

      • sentientomega

        I’m not talking about group content, I’m talking about levelling through the planets, and solo FPs, alone.

        And while I’m happy for you that you were able to go through all that ungeared, I do prefer to have gear so I can deal damage and feel safer.

        • Neg Sani

          Right, no need for gear for those things either. I literally leveled 10-50 solo with level 10 gear and didn’t notice any great difficulty. I was doing class story, solo FPs and some heroics.

          • sentientomega

            With gear is faster, though. And when you have as many chars as I do…

            So, I hope that BW explains exactly what we’ll be getting from 1-70.

            • Neg Sani

              I was using the DvL legacy set they give you. As far as I can tell though your gear scales with you. Yes, it can go faster with better gear, but given how quickly leveling is (even without double XP) you level so quickly as to make gearing with comms fairly pointless as you’d constantly be inserting mods for minimal benefit. That’s not to mention how OP companions are.

              I think you’re overthinking gearing and have a pre-4.0 mindset about it. It used to be important. It just isn’t anymore. I am curious to see what they do to replace comms though.

              • sentientomega

                Does it scale in the open world, though? I hadn’t noticed it does…

              • Neg Sani

                With the DvL gear and XP boosts I leveled so fast I was usually overlevel for planetary content. I suppose you encounter a situation where you were under-leveled if you didn’t use any boosts.

            • Leah

              they said mods will be buyable with credits. aka sneaky way of trying to remove more credits out of the system, I will bet you everything that they will NOT increase quest rewards to compensate for crystals that players will no longer get)

              • sentientomega

                Every single mod, armouring and enhancement is available for 2 common crystals, at all levels the vendors are that sell them, from level 10 to 60. I wonder how much they’ll sell for credit-wise? And whether they’ll cost significantly more at 60-65 than they do at level 10? Because of powerlevelling, the costs were brought down, and when they brought in 4.0, no-one was expected to do anything beyond class and main planet story, anything else was an optional extra.

              • Leah

                if I were to guess? its going to be on a sliding scale, the way creating an outfit is right now (its significantly cheaper to add an outfit to your outfit tab as a lvl 1 or 2, than it is as a level 65) so lowest level mods will be the cheapest with price going up as the character (and mods) go up in level. exact prices? no idea. I would imagine at low levels they would be around 500 credits per modification. at higher levels maybe 20k per? I’m just guessing here.

    • Ravenschild

      1 toon cybertech,1 toon biochem 1 toon either armormech or synthweaving. That allows you to make armorings,mods and enhancements.

      • John Dullebawn III

        How does that fix anything? A main reason they did this new gear system was because of the people that did not run OPS complaining about how hard/expensive it was to make and buy good armoring on the GTN.

        • Ravenschild

          It fixes how lowbies are going to gear up easily. Lowbies do not run OPs typically. Please look at what I was responding to. As green data crystals go away in game people may have to gear their lowbie toons like they used to. By making the armorings mods and enhancements or buying them on the GTN. The response was a simple solution to that. Because that is what the original post in comments was about.

    • The lower-level mods will be sold for credits by the vendors now.

  • Jonathan Parker

    I don’t about this. I’m just now starting to run through ops with my first big guild, and I’ve been having fun running them and getting better gear than what I can get from the Fleet vendors. I guess I’ll still get the best gear from them, but it seems like they’re just turning everything in the game into one big grind, instead of specific rewards. This reminds me too much of The Division’s Underground expansion, where you just rank up doing the same activities over and over to get gear crates, until you max out and probably didn’t get anything you actually wanted unless you were really lucky.

    This really only fucks the free players. I’m subbed, and I have been since KOTFE, but I’m still very aware that this has now basically become pay to play again. The free, even preferred players can’t get top level gear. How is this free to play if you can’t get to the top level and top tier of gear? They’re going to be at a disadvantage in PvP, especially when you factor in the question of where they’re even getting gear without access to GC, and they’ll be unable to be up to par with top tier groups running high level PvE content.

    I’m okay with this for now, until I see more, but it just looks like a grind and an easy pay to play model to me, and that’s not okay considering how many microtransactions are already shoved into the game.

    • John Dullebawn III

      Your right about killing the FTP/preferred guys so most of them are gone, and a good percentage of the current subs are people like me holding on for one last xpac hoping for some real endgame content, so they will lose quite a few subs like me. Unless this brings in a whole other type of player that will sub I really don’t see a way out of this for BW other than canceling the game. Which btw I am starting to think is possibly what they have been trying to do.

      • Jonathan Parker

        I hope this doesn’t kill SWTOR, because I love this game. Also, I don’t want Disney to take advantage of something like that and make an MMO as bad as everything else they’ve made. Mainly, I just love SWTOR. As someone who plays this game specifically for the story (everything else is just a bonus that makes the game more fun), I have no problem with a delay of endgame content. I still have three operations to finish, and I’ve been loving the experience of playing them all for the first time with my new guild. I’m still going to play them, and now that will guarantee progress towards loot for everyone involved with the new system. Aside from that, I still have five characters to level and bring through the story. I hope this game doesn’t go dark for a few more years, at least. I was so devastated when SWG was shut down, I’d hate to see that happen again.

  • Paulo Gomes

    “F2P and Preferred players will be unable to earn end-game gear since they will not have access to Galactic Command (GC). If they were a subscriber who went preferred and had earned gear through GC we won’t take it away, but they will be unable to earn additional gear (through Command Ranks) until they subscribe. They can still get gear through Crafting, that is unchanged.

    -eric”

    And this is where I respectfully bow out. It was fun for the most part of 5 years or so, but these changes… I won’t even bother to comment on anything else. Good going, a new system where the only thing you have to do to get good gear is subscribe and grind old content to death. I don’t think this game is worth a sub atm. And now I know for a fact they don’t want people like me around.

    Good hunting out there people.

    • Kaelin

      “grind old content to death” ? I`m yet to see any information about uprisings, but we have them as a new content. They can be great, super boring or just ok, but for now its wrong to tell about grinding old content.

      Will not argue about anything else.

      Have to agree that end-game gear for subs only is a terrible mistake for a so called free-to-play game

      • John Dullebawn III

        They already said uprisings can be played solo or in team mode sound familiar? Can guarantee they will be a revamped FP that has to do with groups trying to destroy your allaince. Sounds like the same old lame version of endgame they have been giving us to me(star fortress) ect.

    • John Dullebawn III

      Yes Paulo they are doing their best to get us vanilla players that enjoyed having to think through real mechanics, ,enjoyed using intelect to have to gear and understand our classes and lastly enjoyed true “MMO” content out of this game asap and its working. Thing is with this last release they just lost their FTP people too. I have a feeling servers will not be having lag issues in the near future.

    • Naq

      “@Naquasivesh” on the NA ESO server, friendslist me. I think I will be going FTP as well. You know me, I’ll want to see for myself first, maybe uprisings are amazing, but it doesn’t look good.

    • Drivan

      @Drivan on the NA Server of EOS. Feel free to friend me as well!

  • Achrius

    I feel like I have to be the bad guy here. A lot of people are complaining about having to be a subscriber. However some of the best MMO’s out there are sub required with no free to play. If F2P players could have access to all the same stuff as a sub there would be no reason for anyone to sub, therefore the game would close due to no income generated (yes CM would still give income but not consistent). Personally i would love to see the game go back to Sub only, I have never seen a F2P game be anywhere near as successful as P2P games have been in the MMO world. This game does have a lot of major flaws but overall its a great Star Wars MMO ( NO its not as great as SWG and you will never convince me otherwise.)

    Now going away from that mess. Though I play the game mainly for the story I do agree it is really not worth the Sub for most people due to the lack of content. I am really hoping they actually do start releasing new OPs and other large group content to bring some life back into the game again.

    • Neg Sani

      I agree about subbing. Sorry, F2P people, it’s just hard to take complaints seriously when you’re leeching off of all of us subscribers. Yes, some of you occasionally buy things from the CM and contribute, many buy very little or nothing from the CM.

      I really think they should just eliminate their F2P model and give out 30-day trials like they used to have back in the day. If you’re enjoying the game, pay for it. It’s that simple.

      Except in very rare cases I just don’t accept that you can’t afford the expense. The overwhelming majority that complain they don’t have the money have no issue plunking down $60 for a new game, $20 for a 2 hour IMAX movie, or $100-200 a month for eating out at restaurants. It’s all about your priorities. If you can’t justify the expense then don’t play the game.

      • Ominus

        Or some people just want to play it casually because they don’t have enough time which wouldn’t be worth the money. If you’ve got little money, got to get by with counting every penny, and also studying, would you pay for it?

        And no, not talking about myself, but it’s easy to say such things. However, I do say F2P have no right for much complaining, no. They could get a little bit more, yes, but not much.

        • Neg Sani

          If I were going to log in for more than a few hours a month? Sure. Even as a college student I didn’t have much money, but I could scrape together $15 and I probably would have been playing at a minimum 8 hours a month, but likely much more than that.

          • Ominus

            As I said, some people have to live by every penny, and others still would like to play properly, if only casually. Not everyone has money/time as we do.

            • Neg Sani

              There are a few people with a decent computer and internet access who genuinely struggle to get by. But again, if you’ve got money to eat out, play other games, smoke, go out for drinks, movies, etc. etc. you’ve got the $15 for a sub.

              • Ominus

                There are more than a few, just because it’s not commonly admitted by people doesn’t mean the problem ain’t real. There’s enough people living in poverty, sadly, more than they’d like to admit. And they too would like to play properly. I do believe subscribers deserve more than F2P, absolutely, but it could be a little bit easier to get by too, instead of being forced to subscribe to get gear to properly play endgame with this new patch.

              • Neg Sani

                I know some people below poverty level. There’s always money for things they really want but that often comes at the expense of things they NEED. Example, I have a family member on a fixed income of $9,864/yr. He will tell you he doesn’t have money for food, medications, etc. But he will spend $150-250 a month on books, DVDs and gifts. I know this because I manage his income (I just make sure bills get paid and he has food, etc., the rest is up to him).

                There are people that make a lot less than that or nothing and are genuinely poor. But for most people below the poverty level in the western world they have a MUCH higher standard of living than those in the developing world. Point being, most people below the poverty level in the developed world can afford the subscription, they just don’t want to give up something else to pay for it and/or know how to manage their money.

              • Ominus

                Sadly, that is true, yes. But most people complaining they don’t have money do have money – as you said, they just don’t know how to manage their money. That family member of yours can say he doesn’t have money for that stuff, but he does. He just blows it on unnecessary stuff. I hope he’s grateful for you helping him out, it seems like a nice thing you do!

                But yes, that is precisely what I meant – the people who _do_ know how to manage money, and rather don’t waste it on a game, even if it is ”just” $15 a month, for some that’s a lot.

              • John Dullebawn III

                then they dont get to play it. I guess I will never understand that way of thinking.

            • John Dullebawn III

              I know and understand I was there myself man, but when I was there I understood that I just could not have access to certain things at that time. Its life, there is a sense of entitlement today that I don’t understand. If you cannot afford something at this moment you just don’t get it. There are other games, things you can do till you can afford it or have the time for it.

              • Ominus

                Then it shouldn’t be F2P at all, or at least make it clearly a ”trial version” up until KotFE or so; not just a cheap knockoff of the whole game which is only there to make people buy stuff regardless. (Equipment authorization; ops passes, warzones passes, et cetera).

                But let’s face it, without F2P this game would not survive at all.

        • bbb

          Seriously, my lunch costs more

          • Ominus

            Good for you, dude.

          • lockstockbarrel

            Would you still pay that much for it if you found out it was five years old and they had just repackaged it to fool you?

      • Fred Garvin
    • Paulo Gomes

      You’re missing the point, and at the same time answering your own question.

      It’s not if we have the money to pay a a sub, it’s do we feel like paying a sub is worth it.

      And you answer that in your second paragraph.

      I too would like the game to return to a p2p model. Unfortunately, and dismissing all the hype about the game doing well, they can’t. f2p saved this game. And I know. I was here since the start. Right until last December I maintained my sub.

      I don’t sub now because I don’t WANT to. No, the game does not have enough new content delivered for me to sub. And by the looks of things, it won’t have for a long time. And believe me, there are A LOT of guys like me out there, who still play in the slim hope that this game will be GREAT one day. This might just be the final push out of the door for them. I know it is for me…

      Alienating f2p and Pref players Is a HUGE mistake in my modest opinion. This game already has one of the most ATROCIOUS f2p models in the market. With this, it only gets worse.

      I don’t care about status, or if people playing the game are subs or not. I just want people PLAYING. Any measure taken to alienate players from the game is BAD, imo.

      • Achrius

        My first paragraph was more geared towards those f2p players who have never subbed yet still complain about content( guess I should have clarified that part), like really you want all this new stuff but your not willing to pay for it?

        • Jab

          F2P players who never subbed are on lvl 50 with orange gear mate. Are you sure you know what you are talking about? There is no SoR, KotFE and KotET without subing for a month. This is not about some lazy complaining idiots, who want everything for free. It’s about occasional players, who understand, that there will be limitations in their gameplay. But this time Bioware went too far. It will not attract me as a recurring sub, because I simply don’t have the time for the game. However because of the changes you will not meet us in any endgame ops, war zone etc. and we will also not participate that much on GTN. In the end that means less players in the game. Is that entirely OK with you? Because in my eyes Bioware is trying a new system, that can only fail. And it is not about prefs being cheesy little bastards.

          • Imber

            Agreed wholeheartedly. I am okay with subbing few times I can, but I don’t have enough time to play to pull out the money from my very tiny funds to pay monthly. I have struggled and got myself inventory expansions, artifact authorizations and basically anything I needed, as preferred player, and not complained. But now they went too far, in my honest opinion. And they will lose my occasional gonna pay to unlock chapters sub or I can pay this month sub and someone who really loved game, stood for it despite all its flaws.

          • Achrius

            Maybe it is just my server then, its plagued with complainers who refuse to pay for anything more than the 50 levels they were given and orange gear. again thats what my post was originally about, lol didnt expect the mass amount this would draw xD

        • Paulo Gomes

          Well, I’d have to agree with you then. If you never payed for anything in this game you are not entitled to complain.

      • Shawn Hargrave

        i wouldnt even call it a f2p model more like “as a subscriber” model its not meant to be free to play they just use it to entice you to join every 2 seconds when you see “as a subscriber”

    • Leah

      actualy. World of Warcraft is the only subscription only MMO that is wildly successful. all other subscription MMO’s are either extremely niche or quickly end up going some sort of subscription optional hybrid, whether its buy to play or free to play. there is a reason why so many MMO’s go f2p. because a lot of people prefer to pay a la carte, because a lot of people like it when subscription is optional rather then mandatory, and because in most cases, people paying a la carte? end up paying more, making companies more profit. I challenge you to prove me wrong. name me “best” MMO’s on a market that are subscription only and are making more money than f2p games. I dare you. other then WoW, (which is exception that proves the rule and even THEY added a quasi f2p option in a form of subscription tokens that can be bought with gold)

      what bioware is doing right now is… I don’t know what they are even thinking anymore. milking the game for the last few years before 2020 and expiration of Star wars license?

      edited to add. the point is not that $15 is not a lot of money. the point is – is that money well spent at this point? I can buy other games with it. I can buy a LOT of art supplies with it, pack of 8 canvases at michaels on sale is $10. is $15 a month actualy worth it for rehashed content that’s now 5 levels higher?

      • Achrius

        So the fact that FFXIV has over 7million subs and rising isnt wildly successful? Eve which has a few mil? and has over 20 free expansions. Oh and lets not forget old sub games that are now closed, Dark Age of Camelot, Ultima Online, Everquest when it was Sub. There are quite a few MMO’s right there that show how success and Sub go hand in hand. Rift before it went F2p was another one that was doing well before it stopped subs.

        I do agree I have no clue with what Bioware is doing though, they need to take a large step back and look at their current model and change it.

        • Achrius

          And to add to that FFXIV is doing far better than WoW is, and it has NO Market at all. There is a list of OPTIONAL Items you can purchase for very little money but thats it, and all that entails is 2 mounts, 4 costumes, and a few pets. and they arent even the best ones in the game.

          • Emprah

            Stupid weeaboo.

            • Achrius

              roflmao you talk big like you know MMO’s, asking for someone to prove you wrong, I prove you wrong in no time flat and that is your rebuttal? xD

      • John Dullebawn III

        FTP is for one thing, give them a taste so they sub. Thats it. If you want to spend that $15 on art supplies great that is a great hobby and good for you really. Just do not complain that you do not get the same level of playing that the people that will sacrifice those art supplies to play.

    • Trumpcat

      Question is, why keep paying to keep playing the content you’ve been playing since 2012? Unless you’re a new player, which proves another point: they are looking into luring new paying players knowing they have no means to retain the veterans.

  • 😐

  • Ominus

    I guess this has nothing to do with ”KotFE being a huge success” and ”subscribes levels never having been higher”. If so, they wouldn’t need such a desperate ploy for people to subscribe. Basically now they lure you in with endgame gear for Ops and Warzones. Pathetic.

    And this time you have to earn by… rehashing old content yet again. Wow, innovative! Just create an interface, some ”experience” and call it new content. BioWare surely tries to be deceptive and cunning these days…

  • Ry

    RIP end game …..what will be the point of running OPs now? I am in probably the biggest guild on The Ebon Hawk (Second Sith Empire), and we run different level of OPs (Intro to Advanced to Progression), and run OPs 5-6 nights a week. We enjoyed our progression through the different difficulty and enjoyed bringing new players and helping them gear up through different difficulty. A lot of us who run Advanced/Progression enjoy Min/Maxing gear, and mixing MK-1/MK-2 gears to get the right combination. Now what’s there to do if it’s all going to be random gear out of crates that pretty much everyone gets?

    Someone who has like 30 alts and can grind out Heroics on all of them, might be able to get better gear then someone who has 1-2 alts who is running HM/NiM operations. (Assuming legacy gear is still in place).

    • Belgalen

      Its amaze me how people read/hear what they want and not what they say: GC isn’t legacy you don’t get an account level count is a toon level count, so run all the heroics you want in any toon, they all get the same level and the random drops are class specific so it will only help a little if you have like 10 toons of the same class.

      • Ser JuJoo Guppy

        It amazes me, too, because you didn’t read what he stated. He mentioned LEGACY GEAR. As in, people can transfer the gear they earn across the toons via legacy gear.

        I still don’t really see an advantage having multiple toons regardless, but still. Should make sure you read things properly as well 😛

        • John Dullebawn III

          Multiple toons, so you can learn all playing styles and more important run more OPS a week lol. Well used to be that way, don’t think many of us will be running these same ops for another year

      • Ry

        Granted I don’t know all the changes that will be made, but I was thinking more along the line of dps/heal gear will have same stats across characters as they do now (crit/alacrity/accuracy). So running multiple toons means, you can transfer mods/enhancements through legacy gear. Better yet, what many of us vets have done is have multiple legacy sets that are fully augmented, and as each toon gathers 224 gear, we just upgrade our legacy set (with the exception of implant/relic/earpiece). I use the same legacy saber on my Jugg, Mara and Sorc. I don’t need to have 3 sets of gear, 1 would do for the most part. Sure the set bonuses are different, but that’s only needed for the one character that’s working on progression content.

        • MeisterYoda896

          all true you can do heroics on many toons and collect crates to “maybe” get a full set. BUT the big point and i think thats what belgalen was saiing is that only the the highest “Galactic Command” level drops the end-game gear.

          • Ry

            Yup, that is correct. My assumption was that if you have 20 alts and are running heroics (or FP or whatever) on them weekly, then they will be more or less on the same GC level. Of course this is a mute point if you are focusing on only one character and have your alts sitting around at lower level GC.

            I guess what upsets me a little is, theoretically someone who doesn’t step into the harder content can have better gear (through grinding low content), then someone who is putting in time in progression content.

            Again I don’t know the full details behind this, so I could be completely wrong.

        • John Dullebawn III

          What he was saying is part of the fun was mixing gear types (MK) versions to see what worked best along with alot of other gear modification experiments that we enjoyed as NIM players(tanks mostly). Now from what it sounds like no more (com-crystal gear) there will really be only 1 type of endgame gear the CM random crap. Anything that takes any real intellect is being removed piece by piece.

  • Kirill Zhmurenko

    So after reading this I have only one question: What’s the point of subbing? To get gear to do the same old flashpoints, ops and warzones I had been doing for years? This is ridiculous. I have to pay to get gear to do the same old everything, I am forced to pay to grind new gear doing 2-3 gear old content. I will sub for 1 month, do the story and say bye until new decent content. I don’t see a reason why a person who did this shit hundreds of times would pay 15 bucks a moth to do it again. You were a good fame, I will miss you Swtor

    • Drivan

      Pay to win the grindy, tedious and annoying way, brought to you by EA.

    • John Dullebawn III

      No you get sooooo much more, We get some brand new 25 minute long chapters to play that our compainions can beat while we eat our samwich’s!!!!!! Hell they should increase the sub to $50 for all that

  • Drivan

    I must apologize to all who read this.

    This could be the worst fracking idea ever…

    They have bastardized a system that actually works well in another game. They took the base idea and said, how can we make this suck donkey balls?

    ESO has a system where, after level cap you have to earn points in a “Champion System” and the gear you win and can use is based on your level in this system. Everyone gets their own gear no rolling to see who gets that much needed main hand weapon or the sought after helmet. When you run “pledges” or daily focused dungeons you earn a key and can use this key to open a chest that contains a random piece of gear. This random piece of gear is bound to your account and may be a great piece or a terrible piece.

    I honestly believe that SWTOR took this base concept and twisted it to create a longer gear grind.

    Here are the differences:
    1 Champion points are account bound and every character in your account gets them starting at level 1.
    2. Champion points are about character progression and the points gained help you to improve passive abilities like health regeneration, critical hit values, healing done or taken, Damage done, etc.
    3 Champion Points are less about the gear, some of the best gear can be crafted, teh best set bonuses drop as boss loot.
    4 Yes the bosses still drop loot! Everyone gets their own drops, but the stats may not be optimal. Sometimes you get a set of healer gloves, but they have a tank stat instead of a healer/dps one. Sometimes you get the perfect drop.

    The Champion grind in ESO is more of a balance between gear progression and natural character progression. The Command grind in SWTOR, so far, sounds like busy work until they figure out something better.

    • Naq

      Both systems hate my face. RNG thinks I killed its parents or something. I was farming for some boots I wanted the other day, 22 drops, all well fitted and prosperous. Its gonna be the same in swtor. Hit rate on everything. Least my heals wont miss.

  • branky

    So they are going to do it again…they did it be4, remove all coms from the game and replace them with new coms. and yes there will be a useless convertion.Most players are capped on most chars and will get robbed like they did 3.0 its a fuck old players we want new 1’s so we can push more packs policy. Most “founders”will see thrue this and only resub 30 days to get what they need.
    Another sad day for swtor its been downhill for such a long time… makes me wonder when its hits the bottom

  • michael fearless

    They’re finally getting rid of Expertise?

    This will be … interesting.

    • Captain R

      Finally! I mean, it was a huge gap in top wz, alot of people did 10-64 lvl anyway.

    • Lithari

      Well, i might be able to experiment with pvp without getting my ass handed to me by hardcore pvp’ers and their capped expterise gear.

      • Lumi

        You should not be “experimenting” with PvP at max level… If you need to “experiment with PvP”, you should do it at much lower levels where the gear difference is negligible…

        • ZapTheSheep

          Except that people wanted some of the baser rewards from PvP seasons. With so much of the PvP community having left with no new maps in a long time and no new game types, only the hard core were left and many of those were pre-made asshats. Even in between seasons, you would see full expertise builds going into unranked matches just to flex their e-peens. It discouraged more people getting into the PvP community and helped kill it off on some servers.

          • Lumi

            No, practically free server transfers are what killed the communities as a whole on some servers… And you can’t blame premades because only half the team is in the same group. It isn’t their fault you spent all your time leveling and none PvPing. If you are waiting until max level to start farming comms, you are doing it wrong.

      • Dakit

        This experiment will fail, the hardcore PvPers that are left will wipe the floor with almost anyone regardless of gear. There is a huge discrepancy between hardcore PvPer and new PvPer and it’s not gear. It’s the same with high skilled raiders vs casual raiders. both examples are like two different classes of players skill wise.

        • It still lowers the barrier. I was a pve-only player for years, and the fact that you need pvp gear to pvp was definitely a barrier. A new pvper will still get stomped by vets, of course, but for me getting stomped by a skill gap is not nearly as annoying as being stomped by people I know are also way better geared.

          • gua543

            That’s because you haven’t had a proper stomping.

  • Yallida

    New CS:GO?

  • Minola

    What about special modding for some pvp things? Atm i could grind some toons the daylie and got my mods/enh etc in an instant. With these changes we’ll loose all that. Yeah we can craft static gear but thats just useless without the setboni and all possible stats comps i.e. dd mods with life for my tank, cause noone needed that shitload of def…

  • FlyXan

    Well, I’m still unhappy about the alliance crates, no matter how many of those I turned in, there are still a lot of incomplete sets. And at least those stuff are legacy bound so I can move them between toons. Still…
    But this? Come on, I have a job, I’m not playing 16 hours every day, how the hell am I supposed to gear up my main and my favourite alts with randomised stuff – and I don’t even wish to max out all of my toons, only 3, maybe 4? At least BW could add the option to convert 3 or 5 duplicated (triplicated, quadruplicated, etc.) items to one that is missing from the set. That would help a LOT and I wouldn’t feel like I’m being ridiculed, when I get the same belt for the 20th time instead of the one headgear I’m missing to complete the set.

    • Lithari

      That happened to me in the LvD event boxes i got, i must have got the upper Armor box of the waistland raider armor pieces around 30x, but from what i have read, you can disinterate items you don’t want and it gets replaced by other random things, so if it can be done endlessly, you could technically keep doing that until you get what you want…..now if its a limited use thing, then its just a kick in the teeth.

      • FlyXan

        You can disintegrate duplicated items to get some CXP, not a replacement item.

      • John Dullebawn III

        It actually said you can trade it back in for a certain amount of points. The way it was worded was you only get a fraction of the points it cost back when you return it. Whats the actually percentage I don’t know. His quote below.

        “Yup, the drops will be random. The item type is determined by your Advanced Class and the item rating is determined by your Command Rank (higher rank = higher item rating). Keep in mind that you can always earn more Crates and that you can disintegrate any duplicate or unwanted items into CXP to get your next Crate faster.”

    • ConcernedGuest

      That’s the same story with me …

      Still the question remains: how much playtime must be invested to get a certain amount of gear?
      Up to know: running an easy prio OP (EV, KP, A&V, DF) getting at least one, sometimes 2 tokens (16 EV/KP with 10 ppl only) was normally here.
      With at least 5 chars (most time using 6-7 chars) per week I could collect 5-10 tokens and/or mats for crafting missing things (relics, implants, etc), sendable to other chars via legay items (at least tokens with inlays).
      Using mirrored chars (Guardian/Jugger or Van/PT) also spared time collecting gear thanks to legacy items.

      So after 2 prio weeks I could equip each char of mine with a mixed set of HC/NiM gear (mathematically) even by trading or bargaining (threateaning, blackmailing, yes yes I know … the end justifies the means ) with other ppl in the raid group for required gear.
      It was an acceptable amount of time. One raid for about 60-90 minutes in the evening per day is ok.

      At the moment I’m just gonna wait how 5.0 will be delivered (besides the expected bug feast). And if I don’t like it … well, time to go on with Witcher, still haven’t played DA:3 up to know, and my guitars are also getting more and more covered in dust.

      • John Dullebawn III

        I agree since I already re-subbed last week so I could get all the early goodies, I am giving this release a try but if it is anything like it sounds they just lost another player that was here and subbed since vanilla.

      • Paulo Gomes

        A fellow guitar player? Man, don’t let those axes get covered with dust. Mine get a proper beating… Every day. But that’s my job, so I can do it no other way I guess…

        • ConcernedGuest

          Well playing guitar, from time to time, doing lot of fitness, also martial art (Kendo with a little bit Kenjutsu and Iaido) … lots of interests and therefore no time for grinding a game.
          Playing out of fun: yes
          Grinding Prio Ops when time and need: yes
          Grinding just for the grind (H2, DvL): NO

    • John Dullebawn III

      Another thing to think about unless I missed it in the article is, If you max you CM experience to get the top level gear drops on your main, will your alt that uses that legacy gear need to be at the max CM exp level to use the gear?

    • Anne Rogers

      Nothing in life is free, right? You want the gear, work for it, bucko.

      • FlyXan

        Which is actually the point. I simply complained about the random that gives you 30 of the same item but none of the other, which is bloody annoying.
        But you can’t say I didn’t work for that 30. It was in vain though and that is the issue here.

  • Darth-Robin

    so all prefered players who have kotet will no longer being able to get any sort of gear wow that is seriously retarded

    pay to win right there.

    • FlyXan

      No, that’s pay to play. Sorry mate, I know it can be hard for the newborn to take in but nothing in life comes for free.

      • Lithari

        I agree, not really sure why people complain about having to pay to play a game, i mean the game is doing pretty good, so i saw this coming, but there will always be people wanting everything for free.

        • Adamant

          ikr, all those morons who expect to be able to play a F2P game without being subbed … unbelievable.

          • Zeus Fagervold

            F2P just means you get to play parts of the game for free, it doesn’t mean people work for free and you can just experience all their work without paying for it. What kind of fantasy world do people live in?

            • ShadoE

              I can see your point but the whole aspect of the RMT shop is the thing that should be making the money for them for the F2P aspect so….. I mean by your thinking you shouldn’t have to pay for the cartel market stuff by your statement when you’re paying a sub

              • FlyXan

                I love how people like to mix up things if they think it supports their statement.
                It is clearly described which elements of the game are available for F2P, Pref and Sub players. CM is a completely different thing. It’s available for everyone, who is willing to pay for it. And technically subs can use CM for free, although it is very limited (500 cc/month doesn’t allow too many / too frequent free purchases).

            • lockstockbarrel

              The kind of fantasy world where Bioware repeatedly repackages all their 5 year old content, puts out minimal new anything, destroys the gearing system, strands people on dead servers, and then requires people to pay monthly just to participate in something they won’t even call an MMO anymore.

              • Lol

                Lol strands people of dead servers lol! If you are “stranded” on a dead server it’s your own fault. I moved all my alts off Jung Ma when the transfers were $1. If you stayed on your shitty sever too bad.

              • lockstockbarrel

                So all the “people flocking back to the game” stuck on dead servers are to blame because server transfers aren’t $1 anymore and Bioware refuses to merge servers?

        • Jab

          You still need to sub for a month to get KotET etc. So how is that free? You still have escrow, no artifact authorization, no CC every month, just few characters per server (six I think) and many other things. What this new change means is, you will not meet preferred players in ops and war zones. So nobody will buy weekly passes. And less players will be attending. How is that for you?

          Btw as an older player I only have few hours for SWTOR per week due to family, job etc. So subscription really does not make any sense for me. I accept all those previous limitations (I bought the art. authorization for example) But this one really seems to limit my gameplay.

        • Dan Santos

          Look at this: “be able to play a F2P game”

          HHAHAHAHAHA

          People are really thinking this is a free to play game. IT IS A PAID GAME, for Satan’s sake.
          FTP means only you can PLAY a demo for free. And you can.

          And to be fair, it’s the largest demo in every MMO.

    • Dan Santos

      It’s a paid game. FTP and preferred are just playing the demo.

      Get over it.

  • xw-0-qw

    If you don’t have to pvp to get pvp gear, people will stop pvp’ing daily.
    Pvp will be on the same level like doing some Heric for credits.

    They finally killed pvp.

    • Stanley White

      unless you want to do ranked which in turn you need the valor which comes from pvp dailies

      • John Dullebawn III

        Valor will be the next to go, its just too damn confusing. LMAO

  • dank_memester

    Aside from stating the obvious, there’s a huge missed opportunity here.

    The fact that preferred and f2p players can’t get ANY items AT ALL (besides buying crafted gear from their already limited amount of money), but they can’t even gather CXP! It would encourage players to play subscription if they’d see that they gained 12 levels since their subs ran out, and for subbing, they’ll get the whole 12 packs at once! Of course, one could argue that players would only pay once per 6 months to collect 50 crates, but still, there could be a preferred/f2p penalty like 50 or 70% CXP gain compared to subs.

    But not getting CXP at all? I wouldn’t even think of playing a minute when my sub eventually runs out, because every minute spent in the game as a non sub is wasted, because simply by doing the most basic things, you could be earning precious CXP.

    But what am I saying? I’m already doing this.

    • Nogs sgon

      Problem is, you have to have content to get/keep people subbed. No new content for 22 months now as all they do is recycle old stuff.

  • Indrajit Banerjee

    The game Is eventually becoming more and more pay2win

    • FlyXan

      Here comes another one
      Can you purchase endgame or better than endgame gear for real money? That would be pay to win.

      I am more and more convinced that BW f***ed up the game with the f2p model, people just got greedy.

      • Indrajit Banerjee

        I’m not complaining at all, and I agree, they should remove the f2p model completely and make it compulsory to sub. They don’t want f2p players it’s pretty clear. But for me personally money isn’t the problem, I play lots of MMOs together and I don’t like to keep all games subbed just cuz I play 1 2h a week or so.

        • FlyXan

          “I play lots of MMOs together”

          Than your real problem is actually human phisiology (it takes time to eat, sleep, etc.) and that money doesn’t grow on trees, so you have to work. Not to mention your loved ones and friends also appreciate if they receive some attention from you. And there are only 24 hours in a day. 🙂
          I sympathise with you man, I have the same issues (the difference is I play only one game at a time, I watch movies and series besides that).

          • Indrajit Banerjee

            Dude playing 4 games for 2h everyday isnt that bad. And together doesnt mean i play all of them at the same time. K bye retard

            • FlyXan

              Dude, calling me retard is plain stupid. Or you have problems understanding English.

        • Dan Santos

          “they should remove the f2p model completely and make it compulsory to sub. They don’t want f2p players it’s pretty clear.”

          Of course they want. Lots of people try the game as a ftp player only to see how it works and then become a subscriber. I would not subscribe to a monthly paid game if I couldnt try it before for free.

          • John Dullebawn III

            Yea but a 30 day trial offers that as well

      • John Dullebawn III

        It would not surprise me in the least if they added these Command Packs to the Cartel Market in the near future at all.

        • FlyXan

          I hope this won’t happen. Ever.
          These boxes will contain endgame gear, not some new or mostly recycled visual enhancements like the current CM packs.

        • Belgalen

          The first thing they say was that Commands Packs can ONLY be obtained in GC.

          • John Dullebawn III

            Then next thing they will say is “We are adding Command Packs to the Cartel Market so out FTP players can have access to these packs” wait and see

      • Dan Santos

        All the gear you can get with real money is COSMETIC only. It’s all empty shells.

        If you’re talking about FTP restritions… well, here it comes: IT’S A PAID GAME.
        It always have been and always will be.

        They just opened a real big demo, so called “ftp”.

        • LAstinor

          Theres a reason why this game became F2P. And by kicking free players out from the playground, they just digging their own grave. Since this game can not stand on ts own. And secondly u forget 1 big thing. Many preffered players spent a lot of money on this game. You could say thatby casting f2p players out is not hurt. But casting preffered players out who could not allow the monthly fee for themselves, but sometimes they buy this or that from the store, just to make their restriction less, or buy an expac. They just cutting of a money tap. A money tap which brings huge amounts of money.

    • c1

      So, it was P2W from 2012 till F2P came?

    • John Dullebawn III

      Realistically what % of MMO’s ever executed a good FTP system. I know there are a few but come on FFS this is BW did you actually expect more. If you read the other thread on Galactic command there are 2 of the old Vanilla programmers that actually said 90% + of the orig team that made the good content is gone. There is no one left that actually listens to any of us. Its like they are dyslexic, they always give the opposite of whats asked of them. The new players were happy with this new content, the easy to play Storyline Chapters, Heroics and TFPT’s, all they had to do was add more of that for the RPG style people. And all endgame players wanted was more endgame!!! Then after reading that they change one of the few things left that actually worked and most players were happy with. As I said dyslexic idiots

  • Imber

    Welp, nice changes to gearing being unavailable to preferreds even more than before. Are they really taking all the comms away and lvl 70 purchasable gear. Holy crap. So much for me paying for sub now and then to unlock chapters and playing for fun.

    • Errtai

      This is exactly what they’re trying to prevent. Not saying good or bad; just pointing out the fact. Apparently somebody looked at the numbers, didn’t like them and came up with this “solution”. We’ll all see how it will effect the game of course.

      • John Dullebawn III

        Whats funny is when the “numbers” started looking bad us players gave them the answers and they totally ignored us, in fact they did the opposite. I have no idea how a company like this can stay in buisness period

        • Nogs sgon

          Because they are owned by EA and EA floats them. Add in that there are a lot of morons out there that pay $15 a month to play said single player game as well as buy cartel coins for every new recolor of a recolor of a recolor piece of armor.

          • needsomemiracle

            Well, this is ultimately the deciding factor, isn’t it? People are voting with their wallets for the game they want. It might not be the game you and many others used to like or will vote with your wallets for, but it’s a game that pays for itself.

  • HMHero

    no reason to grind for ‘endgame’ gear when the only new content is story, I’ll stick with my level 65 gear I guess

  • Whataretheythinking

    I think the gearing change is to try to lure f2p and pref into subbing, but I think they are just going to shoot themselves in the foot with this. Now as a f2p or pref you can collect crystals and buy gear that way, but with this new galactic command they won’t even be able to do that. I think it will lead to less people playing the game.

    • John Dullebawn III

      I think atleast 1/2 of the FTP and preferred people are just not willing to sub or spend anything on this game period. I agree I think they just lost 1/2 their FTP-Preferred and a good portion of their subs that were hanging on for this one last expansion like me.

    • MEX

      They said gear would be craftable. So just no set bonus for f2p/prefered

      • Nogs sgon

        When has crafted gear ever been worth a damn? And the ones that were, you still had to do ops/conquest to get the mats needed to craft

        • MEX

          It was worth a lot before 3.0
          I personally made quite a fortune on it. No need to do the ops for mats too. One could get them for credits, comms or RE. Not saying it was easy, but still possible.

      • Kooler

        The set bonus is what people work for.

      • LAstinor

        yeah gear will be craftable, means no gear for f2p/pref because most of them are cut off frm crafting by biowares idiocy, so they have a chance, buy it from GTN og wait no, they still cut off from there because players idiocy. ” Put everything to GTN at a price where f2p/pref players cant get them because of the not unlockable credit cap” (biowares idiocy). how many times i saw an item on the GTN just 1 credit above the cap. (answer is plenty of time)

  • ZapTheSheep

    I wonder how much of the old cartel market was f2p/pref buying ops/fps/pvp passes. They are going to lose those because there is no real point to it now.

  • d8

    I logged into the game… and now I don’t know what to do till 5.0.
    Till yesterday my plan was to grind as many Radiant Data Crystals as possible, but now… there is nothing to do that is remotely useful.

    • lockstockbarrel

      Try asking a dev. Maybe they’ll be helpful.

      • John Dullebawn III

        LMAO thats the best joke in the thread yet good one!!

    • Fred Garvin

      How can you say that!? Choices matter, my friend, and only YOU can tip the scales in favor of the Dark or the Light! Grind the exciting DvL Event for more thrilling rewards and save…….

      Ah, forget it, you’re right.

    • Paulo Gomes

      There hasn’t been anything remotely useful to do for more than a year…

    • ConcernedGuest

      Well, run yesterday 1 GSF daily on my imp pilot, 1 GSF daily on my reb pilot, and logged off afterwards … no reason to grind more radiant crystals cause for my tank chars (for new mk-4 earset implants).

      But the positiv effect on this: just cleaned the dust from my guitars and jammed for more than an hour ….

  • Seph

    Lol. I just can’t wait to hear what they’ll do with the pile of useless PVP comms I had stored up.

    • Kooler

      probably convert to small number of credits

  • ß

    Ummm… how will we buy Companion gifts in 5.0, when Common Data Crystals are removed?
    What will be the new currency for this stuff we’ll grind?

    • de-chan

      Credits it will be ^^ … I would guess the highest Comp-Gift (the ones from the Odessen Vendor Rank 6) will cost something between 50.000 and 100.000 Credits per gift (BUT THAT ONLY A GUESS!!!)…

  • Afaix

    yup, final nail in the coffin…at least for me.

  • Conny

    feels more and more like they are trying to kill the game on purpose. I would really really like to talk to someone that comes up with all this stupid ass shit on every big expansion. Because they NEVER listen to us gamers and just keeps fucking things up. AND holy hell how i hate new lvl caps. its just a huge F U to all that have worked for high end gear.

  • Johnny Wright

    So raiders are at the mercy of the RNG and still have to be subscribers to get gear.

    Essentially nothing has changed, but SWTOR is definitely doomed, amirite?

    • lockstockbarrel

      You could be preferred/f2p and just use Ops passes and Artifact authorization to play with your friends. Not anymore. You could kill bosses and get gear on each drop. Not anymore. You could do certain bosses for certain pieces of gear to drop if you/people in your group needed it. Not anymore. PvP and PvE gear used to be separate stats/distributions. Not anymore. Top tier gear used to be restricted to the hardest content. Not anymore. Used to use comms for a wide variety of things. Not anymore. But “Essentially nothing has changed” amirite?

      • Burritos

        Tell that to those who spent millions of cash and hours of grinding for Artifact authorization,etc,etc.

        • lockstockbarrel

          I think you missed the sarcasm there.

      • Przemysław Narbutt

        The game started without expertise 😉

        • Paulo Gomes

          Yes, and with pvp random reward boxes in 1.0… And there was a reason why they disappeared…

          • Przemysław Narbutt

            Same goes here. Random drop from crates cant give you two sets of items. This would be even more fucked up idea as random drop from crates is in first place. I hope they will somehow fix that.

    • Raiders didn’t have RNG before, as a raid team you could very specifically target/grind certain bosses to get missing pieces for your team, and be certain to get it. The random loot-boxes is actually the only part of this I’m expecting to be very annoying, the rest I can live with (and some of it is good, expertise was a rubbish stat).

      But yeah, the game is certainly doomed, just like every other time anything changed.

  • FFXIVTIMEEVERYONE

    Whether you love progression raiding or hate it, at least it was a reasonable means to an end. You do Story mode ops to get gear strong enough to do HM ops to get gear strong enough to do NiM ops. So the constant gear grind is to do be able to do more challenging content.

    Bioware is completely removing any reason to do this. Although it might take you “longer” as they are claiming, you can literally do anything once you hit 70 no matter how easy (as long as it’s GC eligible) and grind your way to the best gear in the game. They are completely replacing the need to have skill with the desire and ability to just dedicate a lot of play time.

    I have some dedicated people in my guild who flat out suck at this game but play more than anyone else, and some who only Prog raid and don’t play any other nights who are great at this game. Bioware is now rewarding the former rather than the later. So basically, this game has become “play-time-to-win”. Fantastic!!!

    • Udesi

      Omg you and @toldyouso are terrible hahaha give the guys a slack

  • BobbyOrr

    Is the GC account wide? I don’t see them say it is and most things hint at it being per character if they are subbed and level 70, but I think I might be missing the giant thing specifically saying it’s per character. I’m hoping it’s like gw2 masteries where you need to be lvl 70 to gain GC experience but it’s account wide.

    • Paulo Gomes

      It’s not. It’s per toon, not account wide.

      • BobbyOrr

        Where exactly does it say that? Like I said, I think Reading comprehensive is not my friend today

        • Musco_Sucksco

          They said it in the stream. So just like they have killed Group Content, they also just stuck a middle finger up to Alt-a-holics too. Good luck playing 10 different characters fuckers…..

          • Rompe Himself

            How else are they going to stretch out the grind if not by making it per toon. Just the same way they dragged out the grind with the Alliance being per toon and not legacy. Really makes the whole legacy system an after thought for SWTOR half the times.

    • Dulfy’s stream notes state that it will be per-character, but I didn’t actually hear that being said in the stream. Phrases like “The item type is determined by your Advanced Class” and the fact that this will replace operation drops do strongly suggest it won’t be legacy wide though. We also don’t know if that new stash will be legacy wide or not, and whether the items will even be BoP, so it’s all a bit speculative anyway.

      Won’t stop half the forums from proclaiming the game dead like they do every time anything changes, of course.

  • Matt Man

    what a fucking joke BYE

  • Lithari

    Wow, you guys are really going overboard with this change, i mean i can now try pvp without getting my ass handed to me by a hardcore pvp’er in pvp gear, which i am sure why the pvp’ers are moaning, they like killing the casual players since they don’t have the pvp gear yet, so that means an easy win for those that do have it.

    When it comes to getting gear via GC, they are actually shafting the pve’ers since ranked arenas and the hardest ops get the most points and to do the hardest ops you need the best gear to begin with, so i guess since i will be rolling a new character when 5.0 goes live, i will be level 70 at around chapter 2 end of my class story, so that will be cool and i will not have to worry about data crystals getting to 1000 anymore. lol

    I am looking forward to it to be honest.

    • Rompe Himself

      Not at all. Casuals more often don’t even know their own class let alone rotations (The amount of times I have seen DPS Commando’s using healing cell instead of DPS baffles me) so gear makes no difference when skill and some effort to know your class is involved.

  • Burritos

    So many worthless changes since launch. Take a look at Blizzard, and learn.

    • Nogs sgon

      That would require them to actually care about and play their game first.

  • fv

    Team meeting at BioWare about game changes:

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/wz-PtEJEaqY/maxresdefault.jpg

  • Yallida

    How to kill game…? Become Bioware employee and you gonna learn all secrets…
    Funny but remiands me one guy from here who was argue with everybody that only americans should making games… Well here you go…

  • Bryan

    They really don’t want this to be an MMO anymore. Which is fine. Stop charging for it like is was…

  • Told you so

    White knights and care bears.. where you at now?

    • Udesi

      Lol no seriously they love the game and I do too but EA is toxic this is how they operate. Bio doesn’t get a quarter of what EA makes with the crates to put into the game let alone their small team. Do Bio gets their Rep tarnished and EA gets away with the money

    • Ben Gimson

      Sad thing is they are STILL in this thread and STILL defending EA.

  • Kooler

    I constantly try to defend this game, but this completely screws over 90% of my friends who play the game with me because they are preferred and can’t afford to pay monthly for lackluster content updates.

    This is unfortunate 🙁

    • Udesi

      Sorry man.

  • Delectus

    I fail to see the point of doing operations now. Think about it, would you report to work if your paycheck was basically a % chance? Maybe you could get a big payout, but in all likelihood it will be the same crap you had before. This will backfire big time. I think the PVE PVP merger makes sense. I PVE, but would mingle in the PVP realm knowing my toon had a chance at survival.

  • Udesi

    I just want EA to close the game while it’s to still good. I don’t want them to mess with the lore only to feed their greedy hands. It’s like a puppy you had for years and it got rabies. Got to put her down…

    • Rompe Himself

      Hate to tell you this but we are well beyond that point. EA have driven it into the ground thanks to their greed and also the lack of vision and effort at Bioware Austin. While Bioware Montreal & Edmonton are working on making what looks like an amazing return to form in Mass Effect: Andromeda, Bioware Austin is the special cousin version who licks windows.

      • Paulo Gomes

        “The special cousin who licks windows”… That is a great one, congratz!

      • Anne Rogers

        Andromeda- from the idiots that shit the Mass Effect bed so thoroughly that the next game needed to leave the galaxy to avoid the mess?

        What are they- the neighbor that huffs paint before writing their next ‘totally awesome’ story?

  • Valkris84KT

    It’s TOO much RNG to be an MMO. Like seriously for those of you who enjoy this change you should just play iOS/Google play games for the same cheap thrill of opening loot crates tied to xp farming cause that’s “FREE” currently and does not require a monthly sub. This is the worst thing they could ever do guilds who don’t need need nor care about the rest of the peons around them as we can network among ourselves, raid for the BIS gear, and achieve feats/rewards the normal player couldn’t. This homaningized approach to bring so call balance waters down the entire process of what makes an MMO.

    It’s ok if everyone doesn’t have the best pve gear, it’s ok if everyone doesn’t have the best pvp gear, it’s ok if you didn’t get that special mount no longer available, it’s ok if you never even killed Revan. You should always be gated to content you didn’t play. This is gonna hurt guilds, slow down progression to a crawl, and create a false sense of accomplishment since those with a high command rank will have better gear vs those who earned it playing a fucking MMO. WOW did a lot of casual implementation to create a second generation community among oldtimers, however the very best gear was still gated to those who were willing to work for it. I’m sorry if I sound like a QQ’ing elitist but these changes hurt entire guilds of friends and families while giving all the incentive to the solo player.

    BW not only jumped the shark, they shit the bed as well. I have no more reason to play this game anymore. It’s no longer SWTOR it’s became a Recycled Space Diablo Like Looter with 0 intuitive endgame, 0 ambition, and with limited effort they can now just increase the lev 5 more times and rest all content again, and again which sounds a lot like Diablo. Which I love don’t get me wrong, however Diablo doesn’t require a sub to play, and it’s gearing resets every season. This game is horrible, and if you have a voice I strongly let BW hear it with your wallet and unsub or fill up that forum till they change this factor. If you kill a boss you should get gear, if you raid the hardest content then you should have the best gear. If you play ranked pvp, then you should have the best rewards, that’s why people play MMO’s.

  • mrrabbit

    I just had my son check out this thread. If you know me, you know who I’m talking about.

    Now he’s just a 13 year old kid who just likes to play along with dad just for fun. It’s adults that whine about game development politics and market exploitation.

    Kids are just kids.

    Well…right now he’s is just standing there in front of his monitor, with a Nerf gun in one hand, scratching his head with the other hand and repeating over and over as he reads…

    “Really???”

    =8-|

    I really wish Disney would protect their investment and its true potential by either lighting a fire under Bioware’s asses or by yanking the license and handing it to someone else who is willing to give people who pay for it what it is that they want.

    =8-(

    • Udesi

      I agree but they gave license to EA…

    • Paulo Gomes

      You can always trust kids to lay down the truth about things.

      At one point in this game’s history, 2 of my kids started playing. They were f2p, started down that road, but seeing as I had so much more to do, they started to nag me about getting accounts (specially because of Treek, my 8 year old LOVED Treek hehehehehe).

      So I did get them accounts. We’re a Star Wars loving family, and we did have a good time playing together. And yes, I had to shelve some doe to buy Treek for my younger one, or he would literally drive me crazy looool…

      That is, until this recent Single-Player stuff started. They have since left the game, moved on to greener pastures. Fortunately, my 13 year old is coming back to play with me in ESO.

      And yes, they still think I’m crazy because I care for this game.

    • TMNJ

      It’s really pissing me off how people believe Disney cares about SW. They don’t. They ABSOLUTELY don’t give a fuck about it. They probably have a huge empty storehouse with a big signboard near its door “Fucks we give about Star Wars”. The only thing they care is profit. And EA provides it.
      P.S. Sorry for being an asshole, just having an outburst.

  • Told you so

    Its clear now that EA does not want to continue supporting this game in the capacity it used to. I would say this is begining of the official end but that happened with the announcement of no new ops a over a year ago.

    • Ben Gimson

      Definitely. I felt like, with KotFE, that maybe this was leading us towards maintenance mode, with a slim hope that maybe they were working on something more real. Now though- especially based on how the KotET story ends in the datamined stuff- I know for certain that this really is the end :/

  • Donald Frederick

    While glad to be a sub again (was sub for 2 yrs then preferred for last 2 yrs til now), the snobbery of subs regarding preferred/ftp is just sad. It almost sounds like you rather have the game lose players and die instead of player with them. Makes game feel like a private golf course. Thankfully I know not all subs are like that. As to this topic, what does Bioware/EA expect to gain, cause I don’t it being profits.

    • Udesi

      Yes I want it to die while the lore is good. And I really hope you re sub because you like the game not because of us snobs

      • Donald Frederick

        As said, glad to be back. And yes, do enjoy playing, otherwise, why pay? My other remaining question is if comms will no longer exist will they be converted to this cxp or other reward since that’s what was done in the past on award changes?

        • Udesi

          No solid answer yet but the guess is credits atm.

    • Galen

      I foresee a great decline in everything, since most people i know who still play the game, myself included are preferred. And they bought ops passes to raid, or groupes up for pvp. Now with the gear restriction another great majority of players will leave. No one there to buy the ops passes that people see. Kinda defeats the purpose eh?

  • Sadriel_Fett

    Not sure how I feel about the new level cap. Seems kind of pointless. But, I am actually glad to finally be rid of PVP gear (expertise). Never did much Ranked PVP, but the idea of making ranked PVP based on Valor requirements seems like it is going to suck for those who maybe had a couple of main PvP toons and used Legacy armor to run their Alts through Ranked PVP. Guess we’ll see how that plays out. I don’t mind the idea of not having to deal with the armor roll drama in Ops and having to run the same Ops over and over and over for set pieces, but having to rely on RNG for what you get in the Command crates is pretty crappy. Seems like it’d be better to have a vendor or something that gives you set armor pieces for points or something, if you’re going to do it that way. At least before, you knew which Ops boss dropped which set armor piece you needed to get. So, you weren’t wasting your time on an Ops you didn’t need to do.

    • Udesi

      I agree with pvp seem like it might be more do able. Last time I left classes where unbalanced and healers Op as he’ll.
      On gear the point of MMO is bigger challenge bigger rewards. Earn to get is a very boring idea tbh.

  • Rompe Himself

    What baffles me the most about these gear changes is how they are making the top tier gear pointless. If you can get the best by doing just about anything, then what is the point of top gear when you only ever really needed it to do ops which casuals are too stupid and ignorant of game mechanics to do and BW have said they are not interested in pursuing, Instead focusing on making glorified versions of heroics under a new name: Uprisings?

    In other words:

    * If there is no new end game content or ops and everything is heading towards Star Fortress/Uprising style group content, what is the point of having the best gear? FP’s, Heroics, Star Fortress and Tactical can all be easily beaten with regular gear and a sliver of knowledge about your class (You’re a sage, don’t use your saber strike you scrub), so then what’s the point of top tier gear especially if metrics show the casuals don’t do ops?
    * If everything outside of ops can EASILY be beaten with regular gear (Stories, side quest etc), why strive to get the best gear?
    * What is the point of having the best gear if Bioware are focusing on making the game even easier the way they gave steroids to companions because the casuals couldn’t beat the game on their own?

    Just makes no sense at all.

    Dulfy, what’s your view on this?

    • Donald Frederick

      Maybe you answered your own question. Maybe they are trying to make it easier for casuals for some reason. Whether to make f2p to subs or other reason I don’t know.

      • Rompe Himself

        The only way they could make this game easier is if they automated it so you log in and BAM, you have completed all content just by logging in. 😛

        • Belgalen

          Well… some people in this page demanded to that be the case with the DvL event… you know, get all the rewards by just logging in the first day… they even made a petition for it.

          • Лев Сафаров
            • ConcernedGuest

              I FULLY support you in this … raised enough chars in those 4 years of playing, almost 2 dozends, deleted many of them and only kept 1 from each class for gaming.

              And getting content (even DvL) that I cannot play with my existing chars I won’t play at all.

              • Лев Сафаров

                Well thanks. Anyway event will end soon and petition doesn’t got enough votes. We do what we have to do.

              • Paulo Gomes

                I didn’t support your petition. But I thought it was one of the nicest gestures anyone has ever done in this game. I understood that ALL you wanted was to have people not get angry at “them”. I understood why you did it. It wasn’t to get all the rewards without doing nothing.

                The reason I didn’t support it was different though. I didn’t do the DvL “event”. And getting all the Achievements meant nothing to me, because I WANTED to participate… With two or several of my 24 lv 65 toons. Even if I did get the Achievements I would have to roll at least 2 new characters, and I didn’t feel it was what I wanted.

                I just wanted an Event EVERYONE could play and enjoy. That was not the case. And Achievements meant nothing to me, since I leveled a Light Side Marauder just to get Light-Side Jaesa, back in the day when leveling was a PAIN. And Bioware took that away from me. Since then Achievements mean NOTHING to me.

              • Лев Сафаров

                Well, i appreciate honesty. You probably said it better then i tryed to say in my petition. Anyway i just thought i need to try even if this means little or less then that. Maybe event where all characters could participate would turn players and make them wish to do it better.

              • Well said 🙂

              • Belgalen

                That’s your prerogative, as I said the most important thing is to have fun, if are not having fun then move on, no point in demanding something you didn’t earn.
                Like the people that let their sub expire and then they were complaining because they couldn’t play the HK chapter, after they find out it was great. You got plenty of rewards over the years for getting were you are. Wailing that you want the ones for te event just because you did it before and you can’t be bothered to do it again is lame.

              • Well said & sad but true :/ Wish u nice gaming wherever that is o/ Kind Regards: 4+ Years Sub & Adult Gamer who appreciates content where has to work for proggression no matter what area it is.. instanced or not.

            • Captain R

              I dont think its a good thing. Even if we played it all before, its not that hard to do it again. If you really like the game. I did all DvL in about 6 weeks, and it only took that long because of events. Character can be leveled to 50 in 6-8 hours, other things are pretty casual too.

              • Лев Сафаров

                I did this event 100% but it was not interesting, i hate do something 2nd or 3rd time, ofc if it not very interesting which was not in this game. Also appreciation would be cool for old players. If not whole event, they could at least create unique item. This event shows that they treat all players, new and who with game for some time in same way.

              • Captain R

                And why do you think you should get special treatment only because you played long enough? Do you know any other games who give something for long term subscribers?

                They addding a little stuff for Collectors Edition, but so rare and so little you barely believe they care. And they actually giving stuff for prolonged subbing, if you remember. That special chapter with HK-55 for example.

                I know this stuff is mostly garbage, but still. Subs will get cool mount and Shae Vizla soon, that is something.

              • Лев Сафаров

                Thats something but its not what you expect from this type of game. My guild all quit in 4.0 because of no new group content, tell them how mounts and decorative stuff will convince them to stay. Anyway i see no reason to continue this conversation.

              • Captain R

                Dont think I follow you here. Lets just hope things will change for the better. Cheers.

              • Indeed. I know one semi big Guild from The Red Eclipse that vanished cause veterans & semi veteran quit from there. Some including me will spread the Details about how Eaware does things with Swtor & hopefully it helps ppl to stay out of Feeding Milking Market a.k.a Cartel Market. Also not to Sub for some silly things like Mount & Another Generic Companion added to 15+.

              • Well Said & So true when comes to Half Blind & Greedy Eaware. Eaware is fit to be EA’s Lapdog team. Wish u nice gaming wherever that is o/ Kind Regards: 4+ Years Sub & Adult Gamer who appreciates content where has to work for proggression no matter where it is.. instanced or not.

          • Galen

            The people who “demanded” to get everything from DvL, i assume were veteran players of the game who have already done everything in the DvL in the 4-5 years that they have played this game.

            I being one of them, spent 4 1/2 years on this game completing everything story wise and operations wise. Don’t see how i should have to do it again cause BW is lazy to make new content. But whatever. Thats probably why i left the game. And i’m happy i did, seeing how there is no hope with this new expantion

            • Belgalen

              Someone like me that have 50k in achievements? played for 5 years and will keep playing? while people was wailing here about how lame the event was 3 guild mates and me run through the event and finish with 100% in a month and change.
              I haven’t play an agent in ages because i already have 3 but i needed 1 for the event so i play it and it was great, played warrior and it made me remember why i hate it soo much, get to kill wolrd bosses at level again in after years of face rolling them, doing Lost Island at level again almost as painfull at it used to be pre 2.0. And guess what it was really fun.
              That what a game is all about if you having fun what do you cared how other people get their gear, even with the best gear a bad player will never get the ‘wings of the architect’
              My point is while others were bithching about how lame the event was and demanded and auto complete at launch i was having fun with my guild mates.
              I will wait for launch and see how the system works and try it if it fun to play i will keep playing if not i will move on, i recommend to all people do the same, all the wailing and bitching about ‘this game is dead’/’biofail is killing the game’ got old 3 expantions ago.

    • Captain R

      So much hate for casual players. Buttburning effect?

      • Paulo Gomes

        Well, let’s reverse that, shall we? Why do casual players envy those people that put in the time, effort and playing expertise to get set-bonus gear? Why do they want it if they only play casually? That gear will make little difference to the casual player. It will make a lot of difference to the raider.

        It’s like wanting to buy a Ferrari to go to the supermarket and do some shopping. It’s idiotic. I have 24 toons, and only 6 or 7 of those have set-bonus gear. Only 2 of those 7 have BiS gear (Best in Slot, if you don’t know the terminology).

        Why fix what is not broken? Why take measures to further alienate raiders? It makes no sense to me. I could care less if casuals have BiS gear. They will STILL suck at Ops, no matter what. Do you think you can play HM/NiM (don’t care about Expert/Master, to me it will always be HM/NiM)just because BW hands you over a brand new set of BiS gear? Think again. It was NEVER about gear. It was about chops my fellow gamer. And it will always be about chops…

        • Captain R

          Funny, you think Im a casual player only because I accept the changes and dont hate casuals? 😀

          Sorry, sweetie, Im a veteran from day one with collectors edition, 94% of all CM stuff and alot of OPs stuff.

          And I said nothing about casuals getting top gear. Its just what you re afraid most likely.

          • Paulo Gomes

            No you’re not. You mentioned elsewhere that things are just as they were, because Ops drops were random. That just shows you have NO idea how Ops are run. Don’t talk about things you don’t know. Be a casual. Be proud of being a casual. But don’t be a liar.

            • Biower pls

              Dude, you’re wrong. He just told you: he has 94% of all CM stuff. The hallmark of a NiM raider for sure! He also has “a lot of OPs stuff”. Yeah.

              Oh well. Will check back in another 6 months. Provided this is still around…

              • Paulo Gomes
              • Captain R

                So you, as a pro skilled supa raida could predict a drop from a boss before it will actually drop? Please, share with the community your methods.

                Also, I can post a screenshot with me finished DvL for 100% (So killed mentioned raidbosses) and a fact that I did alot of OPs, but something tells me that you focused on it because of sad and bitterness in your life. So I`ll just live you be. For now.

              • Paulo Gomes

                That’s “I’ll leave you be”. Not “live you be”. After checking drops from Ops bosses you might want to brush up on your English as well.

                I have no bitterness in my life. Well, at least no more than a normal person. But thank you for caring about my well-being.

                You can screenshot SM Bosses all you want. I don’t really care. What really surprises me is that a “veteran” player like you has NO idea how Ops bosses drops actually are. You might want to check MY screenshot, someone there explained it for ya…

              • Captain R

                And here we go, when a troll it out of arguments he is going about mistakes with fast typing and auto-replacement. Classics! Also a classical “I dont care” pattern, after a dozen of posts when you actually cared so much 😀
                What next? Again about me havent seen a single raid? Oh, you actually posted that too ;D

                Omg, you know, I`m really sorry that I got you so deep in the ass, use some saliva on the wounds or something. As I can see you have alot of it.

              • Paulo Gomes

                Ok… If you STILL don’t know how Ops drops are, let me explain it to you:

                As you can see, they’re NOT random at all. You ALWAYS get these pieces. Of course, you can always get a drop that is not for your class. That means you have 1 out of 3 chances to get the drop you need.

                Fast forward to the 5.0 changes: EVERYTHING is RNG. That means RANDOM. Which means for 12 possible slots you have a limitless number of possibilities that you WON’T get what you need. And if these pieces are static as people are discussing, there will be no chance to rotate those items between your alts.

                Now do you understand, “veteran” player??? https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5ac5c2ddd679d84422fd90ae81e3e9cc2499667c9bae05b44da8a03a58aed329.png

                Oh and if you’re wandering what my source is… It’s right here in Dulfy. Check it out for yourself, if you want.

                http://dulfy.net/2015/10/20/swtor-gearing-and-operation-loot-table-in-4-0/

              • Captain R

                Shh, shh, your doctor with sedavites is on the way. So just wait a bit for a relaxing shot in so hard bombed ass.

                If you could actually see the future patch notes, you`d notice that gear will be class specified. And we dont know yet how hard to get a box. Maybe it will take 1 hour of farming, maybe less.

                I still dont understand, who you feel so ass bombed because of this change. Maybe because all the pro NiM raiding you did is now irrelevant and any causal white collar can get it?

                So basically you dont hate casuals, you hate that you spend so much time doing useless shit and now anyone can have it too? Well I have news for you – its just a game. Deal with it. Or dont. And wear a pro raider title with pride. I`m pretty sure thats the only thing you can be proud of. Shame really, but hey, its your life. Its your choice. And its your ass burning with “righteous” anger.

              • Paulo Gomes

                Great going. Not actually answering to what I’ve posted, just continuing the insults. Besides being stupid, you are also rude.

                I own you now mate. I just proved you wrong on all accounts. You have no idea how the gearing system works now, because you probably go around playing in your greens. And that’s fine. But don’t pretend to be something you’re not. And please don’t try to be condescending to me. Your low-level irony is wasted. In my time in this Forum I’ve had better and more entertaining from other people.

                You know, sometimes acknowledging you were wrong is a virtue, not a weakness. Try it out one of these days.

              • Captain R

                While I do understand why you continue to say this obviosuly stupid things (because you try to protect whats dear to you – raiding in swtor), I wont accept the stupidy of your constant rant about me personally. Thats why I keep saying that your ass is burning like olimpics flame.

                There is no obvious reason for me, either any other player to not to try raiding and hard mods in general, and in 5 past years every single player tried it at least once. Your argument is flawed in so many ways I just hope someone from the side could tell you this, because you`re obviously ignoring what I say.

                Drop system in SWTOR is clear as day, I cant understand why you keep ranting about it either. You will get a slightly adapted RNG system then you have now in 4.x. You dont like RNG? Well, deal with it because its going to happen. Dont blame me, blame modern tendencies in playing community. Games tend to give you gambling instead of direct access to gear. That makes progress seem longer and somehow more enjoyable.

                And no, you dont own me, I owned you because you`re still here ranting. And your burning ass simply cant allow you to stop. So you`re on my hook now =) Go ahead, continue to amuse the public. I wonder if you actually could say something productive this time instead of assflaming.

                And no, I wont stop untill you drop dead and leave this convo. I will be the winner here, you`re a loser. Simple as that.

              • dazedandconfused

                Bro, relax bro… you are taking this way too personal.
                I don’t know you or how skilled you are… maybe you are the awesomestplayer but rolled on a dead server so there is nobody to raid with and that is how you could be a “Founder” and still not know a 4 year old loot system?

                I’m glad you like the game and have supported it… even if you were a whale-by-proxy, that’s fine… more power to you. (I can’t actually believe you never spent CC on items… but if you have, then yes, the general conversion rate is about $1-120CC… also spending a billion credits to get 94% CM completion is more than just feeding the whales, they should give you a whale farmer cheevo ^_^ ) Again, all good bro… knock yourself out… I had many NiM raider teammates who would go gaga for cosmetic items, that does not mean you are a baddie.

                However, your reason to SWTOR and a Progression Raider’s SWTOR are distinctly two different games. That you keep posting on public forums how it’s all the same but different is just plain misinformation. Which is why I will try one more time to help you understand.

                If any of us leet raiders wanted a chest piece with set bonus, then we knew to save our roll for Karraga, because he always drops chest pieces and no; the random trash gear does not bolster your argument and neither does the deco drops, as each boss/op only dropped certain items. The chance was random but the item was not.
                If I didn’t want the chest or a teammate needed it more than I did or my main was already full BiS; I knew what pieces my alts needed and could could still be happy with selective loot that I would pass to an alt who might be called in to sub for tank/heals/dps if need be. For NiM, it might have even been necessary to swap toons for certain bosses that made team comp more viable. There was usually a lively discussion and guildies were genuinely happy someone on the team got upgraded even if they got nothing that night/week.
                With the new (or really old) RNG system, that has died… not only the ability to selectively loot but that whole progression community is pretty much toast. Anyone who has kept a progression team alive thus far will likely lose half the team and when that happens it will be very hard to fill that spot because no alts will be properly geared. We can’t quickly gear up a new team member. Raiders who only log in for raid night will never be able to keep in step with the group. etc.

                Multiple people have tried to explain it to you and it’s clear you either don’t get it or will not admit your error.
                And i’ll be honest…. I have no idea what 94% cm completion means just as much as being a warstalker in 2.0 may mean nothing to you. So, I can’t be jealous of that. That is not my SWTOR but I’ll guess it took some skill and devotion to do it. That’s your cheevo, be proud man.

                That being said, it has no place in a Raid is dead QQ rant. ^_^ If you want some street cred to prove that you understand the very-NOT-random loot system we have now… post your HM and NiM ops completion percent… post a parse… just post something related to the discussion.

                But for the love of RNGeesus stop saying that the new CXP system is slightly adapted. CXP is death to progression raids because of all of the above and more. That was my SWTOR and it is now slowly walking that green mile….. so heck yeah… I IZ BUTTHRT.

                and to summarize… there is exactly one non-event boss that has a true RNG loot table, Golden Fury. It’s easy to get to and has no trash and has very few mechanics. How often do you ever see spam for that raid? Why not? Because it is like CXP…

              • Captain R

                Long one.

                Ok, first of all thanks for being at least 1 adequate person here. At least I hear you. Second – I was raiding hard a few years ago, now I just do casual SM/HM runs with main chars, and really I dont like it anymore. I got 220-224 on 3 chars. Its fun sometimes though. For some reason, I cant spent every night on raids these days, once a week or less even. (Waiting for a hatewave from pro playas who have 100+ chars with WoA and 334 gear and raiding everyday)

                Third – I said about CM just to shut up that taco guy, I never ever put a equals between getting CM stuff and raiding. Simply stated that I have rare OPs and CM stuff. So dont say that.

                Fourth – Also I never put equals between getting gear from OPs and getting them from crates. You really do understand that getting gear from running Raids or OP are ultimately the same in all MMO, saying that someone dont understand the idea of gearing through dungeons is… well at best putting you well below the plank you`re trying to put me. To say it simple – showing how stupid you are, trying to explain so haaard things like gearing in MMO.

                Like you said, you dont know me, I dont know you, so saying such things is never a good idea.

                Fifth – CXP is “death” only to gearing top stuff through OPs. If you do raids only for gear, well… I think many raiders do raids because its fun. And for rare things like famous WoA.
                =========================================================
                Gear is just the way to do raids. From that perspective raids will come to life again.
                =========================================================
                I`m pretty sure that BW are not that stupid, they will put good alternative to raid drops. Maybe not at start, but occasionaly they will do it. Its logical and its the best choice.

                CXP system might save the game, if properly used. We`ll just see about that.

                Of course you are free to keep you ophinion and stay with the rest of the whining hoard. I dont care, all I want is SWTOR to keep going as long as possible.

              • Vladislav

                Well…. You know, that you can buy CM for credits… You don’t need to be from DAY ONE to get 94%… You don’t even need to play this game… There was enough exploit to get enough money to buy 94% of CM and still have some billions. Having items from NiM also doesn’t make you raiders, because…well… They was 5 levels below your character prior 4.0.. Also you mentioned 220-224 gear… Pal.. Please.. Stop it. I nearly crushed my face with facepalm. I feel sorry for your raid team (or you always run with PUG? Doesn’t matter). With this new stupid system not having full 224 means that you raided 2? 3? operations, saying that you have the same level of knowledge as hardcore raider and know how CXP system affect the what left of raider community is just… Pure arrogance. I can understand that you want to feel important, like a pro, but only Bioware will think about you as pro, because you saying thing that they want to hear. That they direction of game is correct. That they good developers. But they dead wrong. But people like Star Wars. Like Bioware’s story. So they continue to play. As casual. They getting pretty solid solo-content for like 15$. Whole game taking about 3-4 weeks for complete main story, side quests, that new story. If you working/studying.
                So returning to main subject. Don’t try to pretend that you was here for whole ~4 years, don’t try to pretend that you know raiding, because you are not.

              • Captain R

                For fuck sake, you people only want to see what you want to see!

                I fuking have full 224 1 main char and 2 others with 220-224 I play from time to time. Why da fuck you care how and what I play? If you think that I used ALL THE FUCKING CHEATS TO GET CREDITS YOU FUCKING WRONG! I got them by trading stuff on GTN, so fuck you with your fucking assumtions on things you dont even know!

                And fucking yes, I`m a pro, because I play for fucking 20 years in more than 7 MMO. I play SWTOR because I like it and I play all the content, from fucking solo to fucking NiM raids. So its you who fucking arrogant prick. Go and fuck yourself, raider-who-knows-it-all.

                And I was in SWTOR for all fucking 5 years, I was alone on empty fleet when many servers died. I was when SOR started, when CM started, with all the fucking changes and I played and had fun.

                SO ONE LAST TIME TO ALL IDIOTS LIKE YOU – FUCK YOU IN YOUR FUCKED ASS! I HAVE COLLECTORS EDITION GAME, I HAVE ALMOST ALL RARE STUFF IN THIS GAME, AND I HAVE A SHIT LOAD OF CREDITS TO DO WHATEVER I WANT AND BUY WHOLE GUILDS IF I WANT TO. SO FUCK YOU! IN! YOUR! FUCKING! RAIDING! ASS!

                END OF LINE.

              • Vladislav

                Wow, we have open fire here. Someone call firemen. And joking aside, just to be clear. You really think that having RNG hi-end gearing system is good?

              • Captain R

                Its much better if game will get rid of elitist raiding jerk offs.

              • Vladislav

                I’m asking you about another thing. I know you can read, you demonstrated it.

              • Hehe yep 🙂

              • Techne

                Wow… I actually read most of that from last month, and seriously, the amount of butthurt here is epic. If you don’t raid, you are trash. That’s all this is really about. But this is old, old, old, we had to deal with it way way back when Molten Core rockjocks preened on the steps of the Cathedral. What it amounts to is, ‘if someone doesn’t play the way I play, and ‘work’ as hard as I do, they are a child’. And the variant is, ‘if the company doesn’t cater to players like me, they suck and can die’. Narcissism – it’s a pathology. And to even begin to challenge this is to invite apoplexy in the other side (‘other side’ because it’s us against them). It would be hilarious if it weren’t sad.

              • Shawn Hargrave
              • Indeed.. Seem to be so & i Sincerely wish him good Mental Healing times 🙂

              • Well said & no reason for any one to go down to this Han Fan’s lvl & keep fueling him up. If he thinks he’s winner with saying last words then so be it 🙂 Like he said above “And no, I wont stop untill you drop dead and leave this convo. I will be the winner here, you`re a loser. Simple as that.”

                If person is so mental then sincerely wish good healing times & nice gaming in whatever game that is. Well written btw o/ Wish u nice gaming wherever that is o/ Kind Regards: 4+ Years Sub & Adult Gamer who appreciates content where has to work for proggression no matter where it is.. instanced or not.

              • Dazedandconfused

                94% of CM… As Dorthy from Nemo would say… ‘Whhooooowwwwoooow’ (sorry I don’t speak whale so don’t quote me on that)

                100% DvL… And [alot] of ops stuff that makes you 80% as good as a NiM raider?
                Nope… Sorry bub… If you don’t know bosses ALWAYS dropped loot for the same slot, regardless of SM, HM, NiM; then I can only assume you never cared enough to try to gear your toons.
                You love the RNGods because you almost always win the roll on the first boss but strangely, they only seem to bless you with “random” bracers and belts. ^_^

                I have good news for you though…
                Bioware is releasing a new game just for you; KoTET.

                May the whales fill thier manna and may the RNGods rain sweet collections upon them.

              • Captain R

                You trying to be funny? I havent spent a single cent on CM packs for last 2 years, I buy all stuff from GTN with credits. More envy now? Wait, there is more. While people like you prefer to think that everyone around is trash, it only shows that you`re even worse.

                I wonder if it is a local trend again, to think that if someone defends the game and not whining about how good it was before, then he is a filthy casual who never passed first boss on KP.

                And yes, while you cry a river here, I enjoy the game. So… keep the flame from your arse, someone still need to heat that oven of hatred.

              • Hihi lolz well said.

              • Wiuh.. Persistence is real.. Han Fan keeps on going 😮

              • Hehe exactly.. 😀 :/

              • Captain R

                Yep, I`ll be here as long as I like this game and for sure longer than you.

                And yep, I have alot more gear and CM rarest stuff you`ll never ever be able to get.

                So feel free to feel terrible pain in the arse. And be proud that you are a great pro gamer, at least when mama isnt looking.

            • Captain R

              Seriously, dude? You`re that butthurted? I havent heard such stupid things here for a long time.

              Drops are random, because there is a pool of items from each boss that can drop. You could get stuff for a tank, dps or heal from variety of bosses.

              After 5.0 things will change so you`ll get only gear for your class. Harder in a matter of drops, maybe, but you`ll get directly what your class will use.

              I`m sorry that I hurt your raiding feelings so much, but face the truth – raiding is about gear. To get gear and to do harder raids for even better gear. But that is all. Sorry that I broke your little faith in your special abilities and destiny as a mad skilled pro raider =(

              • Eban

                what you say is half true.
                you get a 2 pieces of gear dropped from a boss.
                1 is a known token piece and the other is random worse stat piece.
                There guides that tell you which boss in which operation drops for example a mainhand token or headpiece token. The rng drop are usually badly optimised gear noone wants.

              • Captain R

                Also there are chances for decorations which are too based on hidden roll after defeating a boss.

                Yes, you can get a token from a boss, and I already said that maybe they`ll continue with token system, so you can get universal token from a box and then buy gear from light side or dark side vendor. That would be nice.

              • Well Said 🙂

            • Shawn Hargrave

              hes a dress up carebear hes one those guys that stands on fleet after blowing his paycheck from wendys on cc look me at im a huge deal lol this is what ea thinks is a worthwhile customer while everyone else just laughs at them

          • Paulo Gomes

            From day one… Yeah right… But you seem to have a selective memory…

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c7bfee16a4aa8b64d22331726b37bc1a7d69a2fe9dd0b60dcbb6ca1f94e92962.jpg

            • Captain R

              In fact yes, I do have selective memory and some memory issues, most likely an OSD. So I try not to remember systems I dont really need. But it seems that you dont really care about my reasons, trollo. All you need is attention to your fat ass.

        • Donald Frederick

          Correct me if mistaken…. So your definition of casual player or not is based solely on ops experience, right? Not years invested, time as a sub, time played, groups played with, flashpoints done, just if played ops a lot?

          • Captain R

            Yes, he thinks that the only legitimate pro playa is the raider one. All others considered trash.

            • AdjeYo

              Right, he only repeatedly said he doesn’t care about wether or not casual players can get endgame gear. And why should he, there’s no reason.

              The real problem with this system is that we go from our current system for distributing gear through OPs, with zero RNG involved to a system ripe with RNG.

              I don’t care if they want to implement Galactic Command, but why not keep gearing in raids as it is and add Galactic Command as a way to get the gear though other content as well. That way raiders can keep getting gear how they’re used to get it, and people who don’t want to raid can get it in other ways, everyone’s happy.

              • Paulo Gomes

                Everyone would be happy… Except Bioware, who want you to grind old content to death, use a RNG system that may even prevent you from gearing up completely… All the while paying your monthly sub, because if you don’t you can’t use Galactic Command. It’s a gambit, the final gambit. There’s nowhere left to go after this. Remember how we said in this very Forum that after DvL there was NO way they could rehash old material even further? Boy I have to admit, I was wrong. DEAD wrong. And maybe I’m wrong now as well: leave it to them to find ways to fuck up a once-great game even further…

              • WELL SAID 🙂 SAD But True :/

              • Yes all good idea’s except i would make it harder to acquire equipment via Opses & to Opses than it has been for a long time now. Atm. it’s ridiculously fast so y would do that & take this Galactic Crap out of being linked Ops like Eaware is going to do. Argh.. Likely to Drop 4y+ old Sub before November’s automatic Renewal that’s at late month. Still in 2015 bought some CC’s even when Sub on so can say that have given my share of Support for this Half Mmo with Outdated Glitchy Game-Engine..

                Stopped buying CC’s after noticed how Greedy Eaware.. They’ve clearly been
                learning from their Evil EA Masters. Wish u nice gaming wherever it is o/ Kind Regards: Adult Gamer who appreciates content where has to work for proggression no matter what area it is.. instanced or not.

          • Paulo Gomes

            Ignore this other guy, he just has a thick skull. That is not what I said.

            You can do WHATEVER you like in this game. The way you spend your time in-game is as valid as mine.

            You don’t like Ops? Fine. You love them? Fine as well. What I’m referring to is the actual NEED to have great gear. BiS gear. And you only need BiS gear to do the most difficult type of content in the game. You can go all the way up to SM Ops with purple, non-set bonus gear, with augments. That’s Heroics, Tactical Flashpoints, Hard Mode Flashpoints, Eternal Championship, Star Fortresses and Story Mode Operations.

            The problem here is that up until now, BiS gear was for HM/NiM Ops. And the process to gear up was actually pretty fast and simple. You wanted to do HM/NiM? You went and did the content.

            I don’t care if people that don’t do Ops get the best gear in the game. It interferes NOTHING with MY playing experience.

            What I DO care about is that with this new system, gearing up for MY kinda content will definitely be a Nightmare lol. So now I will have to wait for LUCK to gear up my toons… And that will prevent me from actually playing, because if I’m a couple pieces short of a full set I won’t meet the dps check, which means the Boss will Enrage, and I will wipe the party.

            It saddens me that people don’t see just how simple this problem is…

        • Shawn Hargrave

          once again they sacrifice their HUGEST playerbase for a tiny one stupidest financial move ever. Imagine a car dealership taking all thier top selling cars getting rid of them and trying to sell 1 million dollar plus sports cars lol

  • Donald Frederick

    Personally I got a simple request ….. Can Baras’ mask be added back to the game to wear .please?

  • Dan Santos

    Fun fact: 90% of those people saying they will leave the game, will not.

    • Captain R

      Also fun fact: 90% of whiners here are subs, while they constantly refuse to approve it.

      • abaddonsmummy

        Hahaha my thought exactly.
        And they’re probably on every night.

        • Really doubt it with many ppl. Wish u nice gaming wherever that is o/ Kind Regards: 4+ Years Sub & Adult Gamer who appreciates content where has to work for proggression no matter what area it is.. instanced or not.

      • Shawn Hargrave

        id say the only 2 people who are actually sub is you 2 lol here a fun fact 90% of fanbois would eat a bantha poo if ea sold it to them

        • “fun fact 90% of fanbois would eat a bantha poo if ea sold it to them” Truee and if some Cool Looking Outfit or Mount given as Price for Eating that Bantha Poo.. Then ofc they would do it witho no hesitation 😀 :/ Eaware knows the right ways to earn some bling bling $ as Now Next Half Singleplayer Expansion Pre Order Reward is another Mount.. 😀 :/ 2nd Pre Order Reward is Mandalore Milf Companion who is another Generic Companion added to 15+ Comps that are Force Fed to player.

          Pretty much that many even if ignoring all Alliance Alert Missions that can be ignored & still proggress on Singleplayer Storyline. Yaiks Eaware.. :/ They know that many Kids & even Adults “Adults by age not mentally” spend real cash for Mounts so naturally they jump into it. Such are the Clever, but Filthy Business ways :/

    • darthz

      I am.

      • Same here & i know many who do the same & i know many Adults who have left earlier this year cause of Bad Direction by Eaware. Sad But True..

        I think leaning towards back to ESO soon. Housing comes there in early 2017 & it has Pvp with great Immersion <3 I'm Dropping Swtor Sub before Nov or Dec automatic renewal. Bringing Sub back to ESO for sure where i had it from ESO's
        launch to April this year. I took it off cause Zenimax treated EU supporters badly, but putting Sub back soon after seems that Eaware has no idea what they're doing.

        Very disappointing & even if January's new Grp Content announcement is
        about Ops then most likely won't appeal enough to get me back in. Release is
        usually 2-3x months from announcement & not just cause of that wouldn't get back.. Not being only one who leaves and good to know 🙂

        Wishu nice gaming wherever that is o/ Kind Regards: 4+ Years Sub &
        Adult Gamer who appreciates content where has to work for proggression
        no matter what area it is.. instanced or not.

        • Techne

          Fedaygin likes to stress that he’s an adult. Odd.

  • physnasty

    Limiting Galactic Command to subscribers only is complete crap. I agree that subscribers should get easiest access to end game gear, and maybe the only access to top tear gear (cap F2P and preferred players at a lower command level than subscribers). F2P and preferred already would be in for a long slog with no access to ops and ranked PVP, and limits on flashpoints (to an extent) and (probably) uprisings. As it is, it’s nice to use common crystals to at least get basic end-game gear for a character, but now that is impossible without crafting, which will be very time consuming and expensive. They said that the point of GC is to provide a map for players to follow to gear their characters, but now players who sub one month to get the KOTET chapters, will not be able to gear those characters whatsoever. Come on son!

    (yes, I get the point of limiting GC to subscribers is to curb players like me who sub to get the expansion, then unsubscribe to pay for conveniences in life like diapers for babies and food for the family; this feels like cutting off the nose to spite the face)

    • Rint

      Basic gear can be crafted and sold.

      • Need2Crash

        I will to be the crafter will sell that for prices f2p/perfered cant and wont be able to touch, seeing how craft gear now is 2m+

    • Eban

      theyve done this because they can not justify asking for a sub for story only content.
      People would sub 1 month blast through the shitty story and be gone til the next 4/5 chapters were out.
      They have no funding so its poorly written story and uprisings(which sounds like crappy tacticals) expansion which they cant charge for either due to the lack of anything decent.
      So they racked their brains to figure away to charge people a subscription and DarkvsLight 2.0 aka galactic command was born.
      Bioware masters at rehashing and calling it ‘new’

      • Need2Crash

        This so much, I think this a hell marry on how to get people to sub, which will have the opposite effect imo, f2p/perfered that payed for Ops/wz pass to get pvp/pve with set bonus will most likely say screw it and leave, and people that actual did sub will get annoyed by how long it will take to get gear with set bonus gears. Them making the gear random is proof enough of this.

        Then Again I see BW/EA make new pass that is for command rank points but some how making something stupid like for day.

      • Well said.. Sad But True..

        I think leaning towards back to ESO soon. Housing comes there in early 2017 & it has Pvp with great Immersion <3 I'm Dropping Swtor Sub before Nov or Dec automatic renewal. Bringing Sub back to ESO for sure where i had it from ESO's launch to April this year. I took it off cause Zenimax treated EU supporters badly, but putting Sub back soon after seems that Eaware has no idea what they're doing.

        Very disappointing & even if January's new Grp Content announcement is
        about Ops then most likely won't appeal enough to get me back in. Release is usually 2-3x months from announcement & not just cause of that wouldn't get back.. Not being only one who leaves and good to know 🙂

        Wish u nice gaming wherever that is o/ Kind Regards: 4+ Years Sub & Adult Gamer who appreciates content where has to work for proggression no matter what area it is.. instanced or not.

    • Shawn Hargrave

      i dont see the difference between group finder and gc lol the only difference if any is a bar showing a non war by doing rehashed content that goes left to right woohoo uprisings are most likely rehashed flashpoints/tacticals even if something new i highly doubt it subworthy. I find it wierd that they think this will make people and they wont even show the uprising stuff lol go figure

      • “i dont see the difference between group finder and gc lol the only
        difference if any is a bar showing a non war by doing rehashed content
        that goes left to right woohoo uprisings are most likely rehashed
        flashpoints/tacticals even if something new i highly doubt it subworthy.” <—– WELL SAID 🙂 Sad but True.. :/ SWG 2.. We want u & not to have anything to do with EA.. Ofc not possible yet..

  • Jab

    Well subs are obviously unhappy, prefs are unhappy and F2P are unhappy as always. At least Bioware will finally get to Guinness World Records. Because you know… They will fuck everyone.

    • Caveman

      Which is what was to be expected as soon as EA acquired Bioware. 😉

    • Well said.. Sad But True.. Dropping 4+ y Sub before Next Month’s or December’s automatic renewal.. Like wrote above ^^ Wish u nice gaming wherever that is o/

  • @BS_Whistler

    SWTOR: Coddling unskilled, illiterate casuals since F2P.

  • Remiel Pollard

    And the infantilization of their playerbase continues. GG, BioWare. So glad I found Black Desert.

    • Exactly.. I think leaning towards back to ESO soon. Housing comes there in early 2017 & it has Pvp with great Immersion <3 I'm Dropping Swtor Sub before Nov or Dec automatic renewal. Bringing Sub back to ESO for sure where i had it from ESO's launch to April this year. I took it off cause Zenimax treated EU supporters badly, but putting Sub back soon after seems that Eaware has no idea what they're doing.

      Very disappointing & even if January's new Grp Content announcement is about Ops then most likely won't appeal enough to get me back in. Release is usually 2-3x months from announcement & not just cause of that wouldn't get back.. Not being only one who leaves and good to know 🙂

      Wish u nice gaming wherever that is o/ Kind Regards: 4+ Years Sub & Adult Gamer who appreciates content where has to work for proggression no matter what area it is.. instanced or not.

  • Darth Sithious of the Empire

    This is exactly the mistake WoW made with legion. Making gear RNG isn’t a good idea.

    • guest

      Well since people could get top gear in the first week it kind of made gearing pointless so this means people need to do more content to gear hopefully.

      • It’s also Dev’s Fault to make the Char Proggression Gearing Wise too simplififed. So that can’t be explanation & if it is then Devs silly Boys been incompetent. Creating simplified content when it comes to gearing Character & like that feeding those ppl who like things to be handed with silver spoon. Yeah ppl gladly do more Content after Eaware finally gives some new actual Content & Content that’s not Connected only to Singleplayer Mode Expansion.

        Will see if these new planets that were mentioned are small Boxed instances or actual sized as planets were at good old early days. Wish u nice gaming wherever that is o/ Kind Regards: 4+ Years Sub &
        Adult Gamer who appreciates content where has to work for proggression
        no matter what area it is.. instanced or not.

  • Frigi

    With about 100 characters now, I was hoping for less grind to gear up, not more… Will have to see how this works out in practice, but am afraid it won’t make me very happy.

    • Captain R

      I have to ask… Why you made that much? 0_0

      • Frigi

        I enjoy variation.. I enjoy the class quests.. really, I am struggling to properly answer the question, as it probably feels as alien to me as my 100 characters feel to you. The fact that I can have many different characters to actively play with is the entire reason I am still subscribed to this game.

        But next to the class missions, the content I enjoy the most are HM FPs, and while during the 2.0 cycle I could just run the oricon story once to be sufficiently geared on any character that hit level cap, the HM FPs in that cycle were some of the easiest.. so it was a bit more work to compensate for pug randomness in the 3.0 cycle.. and what do they do? In the 4.0 cycle they allow all those people who don’t know what they’re doing to queue before reaching max level too (which I’d consider fine for ‘walkins’, bringing people who know what they’re doing, but should not be available to instant 60s that found the groupfinder button as their first click in the game) and now on top of all the unleveled randoms, we’re going to have to deal with ungeared non-subs too..

        So here I’m thinking the positive side to this, for me, is that I can outgear my content to the extent that I can compensate for the kind of groups I will be getting, and the negative side is that I fear it may take so long that I will be effectively forced to have a main or two primary characters.. Do Not Want.

      • ) ) ) sotmax ( ( (

        Still a player with smaller variety (8 for example) will have to grind a lot for gear them up..

  • abaddonsmummy

    This sounds genuinely interesting.
    I was sceptical when I first heard the announcement but gearing up (although easy for us vet’s) is getting overly complicated for new players. It’s a common Guild question.
    However it means using comm’s from another char to buy gear and send it across isn’t going to be so easy 🙁
    Nice PVP/PVE changes too.

  • Donald Frederick

    Last thought. I can’t imagine participating in the lvl 70 stuff requires it to be from a new toon cause why then have this 2xp for 2 months til dec launch to lvl ppl up to lvl 65 to start he expansion?

    • You won’t require a new char. It would be illogical and absurd.

  • chris

    “From gamers for gamers”? Sorry but that was the first topic on which nearly anyone on our server agreed: Nightmare gear is for people who play nightmare, not for such that are just playing some h2s. Why should a real gamer keep playing a game, that doesn’t care for any of his intrests? It’s just like none of the casual gamers will start playing swtor just because of that loot system, but many real gamers will stop playing swtor. So it will be like it was always; just ignore the players opinion and do what some designers think could be great. That’s how to destroy a great game!

    • Donald Frederick

      The arrogance cracks me up. “Real gamer,” “ignore the players opinion.” The limitations some subs (some, not all of course) trying to imply on who has the right to a viewpoint or any say. Neither you (nor I) get to decide who a real player is. The humor that someone could play hours a day/week but will still be called a “casual” because nightmare/ops bores them.

      • Rompe Himself

        To me, a casual is someome who is not interested in playing a game and learning it’s mechanics especially more so in a mmo where learning such things is vital when grouping. Chris is on point when he says it is a bullshit move by Bioware (yet again) to dumb the game down even more for these casuals who often don’t commit to this game and give them the best gear with minimal effort while ignoring people who not only do ops (hm/nim whatever) but also those of us who took the time and made the effort to learn this game so we could add to the swtor community or what’s left of it. It is those sort of people that kept swtor alive, not the casuals.

        • Donald Frederick

          That’s part of the arrogance I meant … No, it is not just those people that kept the game alive. It is everyone that has put money in the game, preferred and subs alike. You literally just implied that putting the time in doesn’t matter unless it is to play the game in the way you prefer. Everyone that has played the game has added something to the community. To imply different is not just wrong but simply elitist and its that type of player that makes games lose their fun to play.

          • Techne

            That sort of elitism is required to keep someone’s ego intact, if it’s tied to… wait for it… a computer game. You’re never, ever going to change it. Nothing to see here.

        • Well said 🙂

    • Well said Chris 🙂 I think leaning towards back to ESO soon. Housing comes there in early 2017 & it has Pvp with great Immersion <3 I'm Dropping Swtor Sub before Nov or Dec automatic renewal. Bringing Sub back to ESO for sure where i had it from ESO's launch to April this year. I took it off cause Zenimax treated EU supporters badly, but putting Sub back soon after seems that Eaware has no idea what they're doing.

      Very disappointing & even if January's new Grp Content announcement is about Ops then most likely won't appeal enough to get me back in. Release is usually 2-3x months from announcement & not just cause of that wouldn't get back.. Not being only one who leaves and good to know 🙂

      Wish u nice gaming wherever that is o/ Kind Regards: 4+ Years Sub & Adult Gamer who appreciates content where has to work for proggression no matter what area it is.. instanced or not.

    • Techne

      what is this “casual” v. “real” gamer you speak of? How does one measure that, exactly?

  • 90-B0-A

    Looks like they want less people playing the game. And they found the perfect strategy to achieve this goal: annoy everybody with stupid RNG boxes. Wll done, well done.

  • Ann Nonymous

    I log twice a week to do hm/nim ops with a nice group. I guess I am screwed given how little time I spend playing the game nowadays even if it is nim/hm content. It is not a lot of time but it is quality time and not grinding. And I have to regear all my toons again with the same story….

  • Rompe Himself

    So I noticed Dulfy now covers Revelation Online apart from BDO and GW2. I guess how tiny the content coming through swtor is of late makes it easier to play a new mmo perhaps? Dulfy, is RO any good so far? Looks similar to BDO though that is an outside pov.

    • Fred Garvin

      Tiny amount of content or not, SWTOR will always be Dulfy’s whale. She could’ve quit playing altogether and there’s no way she’ll stop having SWTOR coverage. This thread alone probably has more page views and responses than all GW2 and BDO posts all year. I swear BDO could announce you have to pay $5 every time you log in and that post would have 20 replies while a Cartel Market post that includes an outfit with what ppl feel is too large of a backpack will get 200+…lol

      • Shawn Hargrave

        LOL true i always come here for the lolz and to see how ea’s destroying tor pretty good and stop playing this shit years ago

    • GW2 is better than BDO. BDO Did Sink with user amount pretty fast after launch. Will see what happens with it. GW2 Created by Arena.net <3

  • Deshik

    lol they are making it easier to tell a sub from a non sub apart. Subs will run around in god tier gear and over 100k hp and prefs will be like lucky to get over 80k hp 😀

    • Lolka

      As it should be…

      • Лев Сафаров

        O, Sith Warrior sometimes say that. (:

    • ) ) ) sotmax ( ( (

      f2p in this game was never somthing more than a trial …
      Still devs have no idea what they are doing.
      I may sub for 2 months just to get the gear and probably back to gw2 again…personally

      • Enjoy time in beautiful GW2 created by nice Arena.Net team o/ I love that Universe, but atm. struggling between beautiful ESO created by Zenimax Studios & GW2. I think leaning towards back to ESO soon. Housing comes there in early 2017 <3 I'm Dropping Swtor Sub before Nov or Dec automatic renewal. Bringing Sub back to ESO for sure. Not being only one who does that and good to know 🙂 Wish u nice gaming wherever that is o/ Kind Regards: 4+ Years Sub & Adult Gamer who appreciates content where has to work for proggression no matter what area it is.. instanced or not.

        • ) ) ) sotmax ( ( (

          I really,really wish bioware learn a little bit from gw2. No paying per month plus no server downtimes plus no ninja loot and so many others,make the game just awwsome. I do love st ar wars universe but bioware still base their sales at star wars name only. They don’t care about their customers at all, and they don’t even bother to listen to anyone.

  • C_LaFontaine

    SWTOR 1.0 – Random RNG drops in OPs where you could be a tank and get healing gear as your drops. A big point of contention that causes a lot of players to leave in first six months after launch making the term “TORtanic” part of gaming lexicon.

    SWTOR PVP Update – Hey look, we added random RNG gear for drops. Oops, went over like a lead balloon upon launch, make quick fix to change system universally hated by PVP base and that caused PVP activity to plummet.

    SWTOR 5.0 – Let’s give RNG to everything – both PVE and PVP. What could possibly go wrong?

    Sorry to say it but I am going to. These guys have NO IDEA what they are doing. If you can not learn your lessons from the first two times you did it with disastrous results (and take a cue that the massive vitriol on the net since this announcement), then it is time to get another job. Upon launch, if implemented the way they are talking, this WILL, WITHOUT A DOUBT, have disastrous results.

    • Bryan

      You say learn from your lessons as if any of the original people are left… lol

      • Yeah there aren’t indeed as Evil Greedy EA sacked all Founding Crew before 3.0 :/ I liked some of them.. Dropping Sub before Nov or Dec automatic renewal. Not being only one who does that and good to know 🙂 Wish u nice gaming wherever that is o/ Kind Regards: 4+ Years Sub & Adult Gamer who appreciates content where has to work for proggression no matter what
        area it is.. instanced or not.

        • Shawn Hargrave

          i learned after launch with ilum how that went and when they shut down open world pvp there and tryed to force everyone into warzones that was it for me and ever since its just gone downhill i find it hilarious they just know figured out to remove expertise i said that in beta now all the scrub pvp’ers that are left that think there hot shit are gonna get exploded when its on equal terms lol /smh how tor still exists is mindboggling to me i do find it funny though how people keep falling for rehashed content being sold to them different ways lolz

    • Well said & good to hear that u 2 not taking this sillyness. I’m Dropping Sub before Nov or Dec automatic renewal. Not being only one who does that and good to know 🙂 Wish u nice gaming wherever that is o/ Kind Regards: 4+ Years Sub & Adult Gamer who appreciates content where has to work for proggression no matter what area it is.. instanced or not. Mmo gamer since early 2004.

    • Agreed.

  • doot doot

    Not sure who is designing this game anymore, but this killed any prospect of me actually wanting to play 5.0.

    • Same.. Dropping Sub before Nov or Dec automatic renewal. Not being only one who does that and good to know 🙂 Wish u nice gaming wherever that is o/ Kind Regards: 4+ Years Sub & Adult Gamer who appreciates content where has to work for proggression no matter what
      area it is.. instanced or not.

  • FFS

    “F2P and Preferred players will be unable to earn end-game gear since they will not have access to Galactic Command (GC). If they were a subscriber who went preferred and had earned gear through GC we won’t take it away, but they will be unable to earn additional gear (through Command Ranks) until they subscribe.”

    BioWare you had only one job, only fucking one and you ruined it!!! Ikr swtor never been on f2p stage and it never will but I had a hope

    • I concur.

    • Shawn Hargrave

      its ok they can use group finder its the same as gc

      • Mer Vila

        But we can never get geared like we used to. I´m pref player, I sub every now and then when I can afford it. Now why would I? The moment the sub ends, so does my grind for gear =´(

  • Kovandor

    The only good thing for me is the removing of expertise. It was always so bad, when I just joined in a random PvP warzone, and got destroyed, because I didn’t have any expertise item.

    BUT: “It is based on Advanced Class, not Discipline.” So if I’m unlucky, I can get a full tank gear with my dps jedi guardian? Or when I still miss 1 item, but it never drops? Disgusting. The itemization never should be soo random. At least, you should be able to choose what crate you get: tank, healer or dps….

    • “Disgusting. The itemization never should be soo random. At least, you
      should be able to choose what crate you get: tank, healer or dps….” <—- Exactly… Know many who have Recently left the Swtor Building after been Subs for a long time & i'll be joining them most prob. Before November's or December's Automatic Renewal.. Very disappointing & even if January's new Grp Content announcement is about Ops then most likely won't appeal enough to get me back in. Release is usually 2-3x months from announcement & not just cause of that wouldn't get back..

      Swtor's Eaware crew is just too blind to see on which path to take in with Swtor's Development. Now it comes Semi P2W @5.0 & then Ruining Pvp & making Mind Boggling other changes.. Just dazes the mind of Adult gamer who's been Mmo gamer since early 2004. Also long time old School gaming & Rpg fan. Loved Swtor on it's pre 3.0 days, but then feeling went to other side each month.. :/ Likely to Drop 4+y old Sub soon like said.. Still in 2015 bought some CC's even when Sub on so can say that have given my share of Support for this Half Mmo with Outdated Glitchy Game-Engine..

      Stopped buying CC's after noticed how Greedy Eaware.. They've clearly been learning from their Evil EA Masters. Wish u nice gaming wherever it is o/ Kind Regards: Adult Gamer who
      appreciates content where has to work for proggression no matter what
      area it is.. instanced or not.

    • I agree with expertise. When the game first dropped it was about skill, not gear. Now the issue is having enough players to pop queue.

  • Shawn Hargrave

    the real question it seems is galactic command worth a sub? so far it just seems to be a glorified group finder with a war tab and uprisings who knows? it sounds like though the f2p people are gonna die off in droves there goes a lot of cc sales and more.

    it really feels like ea is pushing the limit of what they can get away with and it seems like a lot getting people to do rehashed content in a 100 different ways hoping people will sub for a spruced up group finder with a war tab i dont see it happening but theres always a tool somewhere who falls for this b/c they keep doing it

    • Well said 🙂 Could’ve used dot there a bit more, but was readable 😉 Love this part among many others: “do rehashed content in a 100 different ways hoping people will sub for a spruced up group finder with a war tab i dont see it happening but theres always a tool somewhere who falls for this b/c they keep doing it” <– o/

  • John Doe

    lol and when i thought about comming back to the game they do this shit , it’s literally the WoW legion gamble system , meshing pvp into pve and what ranked dudes ? it’s been dead for years.. rip man

    • Fred Garvin

      It’s literally not the same as Legion at all.

    • Not 110% same as with Legion “Legion is mostly great expansion”, but y 5.0 in Swtor brings a lot of Crap moves :/ Before November or December’s automatic Sub renewal i’ll drop Sub after it’s been active 4y + “since launch so almost 5x” & even bought CC’s few times. So can say that given my support for Greedy & Half Blind Swtor’s Eaware Devs.

      Wish u nice gaming wherever it is o/ Kind Regards: Adult Gamer who appreciates content where has to work for proggression no matter where it is.. instanced or not.

      • John Doe

        Cheers for the kind response Freday , it’s similar in many ways to Legion especially since there are no PvP vendors anymore and you get the gear from gear boxes and world quest drops. The RNG is all to similar to me but Legion has 10 times the grind swtor has with the Artifact Power , No Lockout Mythic Dungeons + , Hidden Skins locked out before more grind , Suramar Area grind , etc.

        MMO’s are dead imo , last hope is Revelations:Online for me atleast , gl hf to you aswell.

  • Rodionova Nataly

    when 3.0 came out, i alredy sensed something’s wrong, thou it felt like everyone except me was happy with everything. Despite guildies and friends shouting at me “F U the game is awesome and has bright future” and bla bla bla i left. But i had my precious, priceless moments in the game, that i will never forget, i love my characters very much, they are all special to me, like book characters, i mean they’re alive, i never created just another random toon to grind something. I thank everyone i played with for making me happy. As pref from time to time i log in, because i miss old days and my characters, but after few minutes i realize there is absolutely nothing to do. Maybe i’d spend some time chatting with guildies, but they all left. Everyone i knew..And it makes me very very sad. Those old exciting happy days are no more. I think it is obvious why. I also check dulfy out of mad hope, to see if there are any positive tendencies.. But what i just read..i was right to leave. I just wonder if all commenters here who promised to cancel sub and leave the game would truly leave, because online games are like drug addiction, and however dissatisfied some players can be, they would rather pay till the end of their days for a rotting game, than leave their nice warm little nest and admit that the time has come to stop feeding this machine that’s slaughtering our will to play. There is nothing to pay for anymore. We need to draw a line.
    P.S. I Just want to thank you very very much, Dulfy, for everything you are doing, for creating this little sanctuary. Blesses to everyone.

  • Kplz

    Top tier gear is locked behind progression and the most challenging content for a reason. To coordinate a team of 8+ people from around the world should always yield the best rewards. To remove this as they are doing and giving this gear to Joe the Plumber who completes a 2+ heroic is straight up retarded and is the nail in the coffin. Raids now serve 0 purpose, 0 reward, 0 fun. I feel bad for anyone who continues to play this game, you must be insane, doing the same thing over and over again but getting the same shitty outcome, no new content.

    • Indeed.. “I feel bad for anyone who continues to play this game, you must be
      insane, doing the same thing over and over again but getting the same
      shitty outcome, no new content.” 🙁 I hope all those ppl get good Treatment & come out of the Eaware’s Favor Bubble 🙂 No offense ofc & really hope that they stop wasting real cash to this Slap in Sw Franchise Half Mmo.

  • Baconlicious

    When I joined a few years ago, I put up with nearly an entire year of F2P, and while it was, indeed, the worst trash ever, I survived simply because I thought the storylines and progression was worth it. While still not great, when I upgraded to preferred, I still felt somewhat rewarded for playing the game. But now… now, I find I can’t really enjoy the game unless I sub, and when I sub, I’m still miserable for other factors. In this case, I have zero interest in PvP or Operations, and I absolutely fucking detest RNG systems. To know that RNG is going to dominate how I gear my characters in 5.0 is going to make me unsub. To make matters worse, it punishes preferred players, of which I have many friends who are. I’ve been loyal for years, but that’s where I draw the line. It’s not worth it anymore.

    • Indeed.. Sad.. Well said “I absolutely fucking detest RNG systems. To know that RNG is going to dominate how I gear my characters in 5.0 is going to make me unsub. To make matters worse, it punishes preferred players, of which I have many friends who are.”

      Kind Regards: Sub since launch in #swtor & even bought Cartel Coins few times in 2015. Can say that given my share of support for Star Wars: The Old Republic 😛 Stopped buying after noticed that proper Mmo features didn’t come & even Galactic Starfighter didn’t get updates after Development was stopped in Autumn 2014 🙁

      Chat system is outdated just as the Game-Engine. Dropping Sub before November’s automatic Renewal. Wish u & everyone else nice gaming in whatever game that is 🙂

  • DonPicco

    As an early access player with full time sub… im really thinking of dropping this game. With this BS that BW is doin… i mean pvp sucks now days with all brain dead ppl in groups…. cant imagine in 5.0 with all pvers with no clue what to do… hiding behind gear with no skill…
    Good job BW …. my hat is off to you …

    • Well said: ” cant imagine in 5.0 with all pvers with no clue what to do… hiding behind gear with no skill…”

      Kind Regards: Sub since launch in #swtor & even bought Cartel Coins few times in 2015. Can say that given my share of support for Star Wars: The Old Republic 😛 Stopped buying after noticed that proper Mmo features didn’t come & even Galactic Starfighter didn’t get updates after Development was stopped in Autumn 2014 🙁

      Chat system is outdated just as the Game-Engine. Dropping Sub before November’s automatic Renewal. Wish u & everyone else nice gaming in whatever game that is 🙂

  • Morgulian

    Stopped playing half an year ago. Was thinking to give it another chance when expansion is out. This no pvp gear thing made me start thinking otherwise.

    • Yeah & many other changes and new “features” coming with 5.0 drive many Mmo & Adult Gamers away :/ Lasted longer than some Mmo’s ” which is about 3,5years as not counting the Kotfe launch that was lolz.. Sayonara Swtor & now waiting for that Miracle day when Eaware steps out of SW Franchise ” & hope to someone continue SW 1313. Which was Cover & Shoot SW game that was started by Lucasarts before Disney Scrapped them. Yeah i know.. Living the dream..

      Kind Regards: Sub since launch in #swtor & even bought Cartel Coins few times in 2015. Can say that given my share of support for Star Wars: The Old Republic 😛 Stopped buying after noticed that proper Mmo features didn’t come & even Galactic Starfighter didn’t get updates after Development was stopped in Autumn 2014 🙁

      Chat system is outdated just as the Game-Engine. Dropping Sub before November’s automatic Renewal. Wish u & everyone else nice gaming in whatever game that is 🙂

      • Techne

        pvp… adult… does not compute

  • adsfmovie

    Congrats Bio…

    I just can’t wait to see other people in game and elsewhere to whine on “how they can’t find more people to do opses” and how pvp is unplayable, because there are not many people who will be able to do it, and even if they do… they will be smashed by those who have better gear than they. GG WP NO-RE.

    http://s2.favim.com/orig/150824/clap-funny-horse-humor-Favim.com-3173783.gif

  • Annubis1991

    i’d be surprised if they ever… EVER…. gonna ask WHAT people want… make a survey… such a simple solution… and they can’t figure that out… they have tons of topics in suggestion threads but i doubt most of them they’ll ever do.. can’t they just for once for fucking christ ask people what they want and show them the working phase on it and then ask people what to change? until they satisfy most of them, and then release it….. rly? it’s that hard to do that?

    • It seems to be Hard enough for Swtor’s Eaware crew to fulfill these basic Things that Mmo Developers have done since birth of 1st Mmo Ultima Online. Shameful way for Swtor’s Skeleton Dev Crew to work :/

  • Dugu

    So quick question about pvp gear being taken out. So if pvp gear is no long going to be around, and we will use one gear set for both pvp and pve, does that mean accuracy is now needed for pvp. Or will we still have to have to have to sets of gear one having acc and the other having more crit and alac. therefore still having to have to sets lol.

  • Gagboot

    Looks like SWTOR is moving to the WoW rng boat now. How delightful!!! I have to say I quit subbing during the summer when it was set in stone there would be no new Operations or Flashpoints…ever…again. Story can only go so far and be done so many times until it is a solo un-funfest. At least raiding with guildies on a regular basis and making headway in nightmare was a challenge.But that is no more. But again, doing the same Ops, old Ops, over and over, finally forced all 30 of us to migrate to WoW. The rng based loot drops suck at the moment in WoW, but we got new Dungeons, Raids and new content. New raids coming out every few months and Dungeons. Being able to flex from 10 man up to 30 man instantly is so much better than a static number in SWTOR. Have fun getting to 70 with nothing to do but 2 yr old content and shitty gearing.So glad I quit. 900 million gold sitting doing nothing.

    • Gagboot

      oops..900 million credits….lol

  • Vilen

    Well it seems to me the only people who are having issues with this are the PvP’ers. I came from a game where there was no difference in stats and those that wanted to PvP did and those who didnt , did not… It had nothing to do with your stats. It was about personal choice but I will say we had areas where PvP was mandatory or you could choose to be in PvP mode wherever you were that did not mean everyone was PvP enabled jut those who chose to be. SO I dont see this as a bad thing at all.

  • Deeps

    what a load of bull shit!!!!
    what about all the wz comms ive saved up!!!
    ill be unsubbing fuck this shit.

  • Andeeroo

    Hard/nightmare mode ops should have crate reward quest and something similar for ranked wz’s. I feel like this will be added after some qq.

  • ) ) ) sotmax ( ( (

    Well….i just subbed only to solve my curiocity issues but i think this will be the last sub i”ll put in there.
    Honestly i don’t have any problem with those crates and rng etc, but to give no choice but grinding with all my toons to the hell of rng is pure shit. Taking away the ability to share gear with at least mirror classes is a big no go for me.
    I “ll stick to my favorite gw2 that don’t ask me every month for my money…
    Big post big truth….BW your a big shit and ty for ruining such a big title as star wars.
    I “ll keep myself to movies. .

  • Danold tromp

    Finally awesome swtor ill sub now

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