SWTOR Bioware Discussion on Master Mode Operation Gear

Bioware is interested in your thoughts on some proposed changes to Master Mode operation gear drop.

Discussion Topic: Master Mode Operation Gear Drops | 06.14.2017, 09:29 PM
Hey folks,

Since the launch of Galactic Command we have made great strides to change it to be a supporting gearing system versus the primary means of gearing your characters. We still have improvements to make and we will be talking more about gearing methodology in an upcoming discussion topic. For today, we really want to focus on the drops currently coming from Master Mode Operations, as this has been a hot topic. Let’s start with some context on how gearing currently works for Operations at each difficulty (all examples assume 8-player):

Story Mode Operations:

  • Each boss drops a specific Tier 2 Legendary quality item
    • Ex: Soa in Eternity Vault will always drop 2 offhands

Veteran Mode Operations:

  • Each boss drops a specific Tier 3 Legendary quality item
    • Ex: Soa in Eternity Vault will always drop 2 offhands

Master Mode Operations:

  • Each non-final boss in an Operation will drop random Tier 4 Prototype and/or Artifact quality item
    • Ex: Killing Nefra in Dread Fortress will drop 2 random items which will be of Prototype or Artifact quality
  • Each final boss of an Operation will drop a specific Tier 4 Legendary quality item
    • Ex: Dread Master Brontes in Dread Fortress will always drop 2 gloves

Gods From the Machine does not follow the above rules. Here is how that works:

  • Story Mode – Each boss will drop a specific Tier 3 Legendary item
    • Ex: Tyth will always drop a Tier 3 relic
  • Veteran Mode – Each boss will drop a specific Tier 4 Legendary item
    • Ex: Tyth will always drop a Tier 3 relic

The key issue with Master Mode is the gear you are receiving isn’t being consistently provided as it is with the other Tiers. The primary reason is we wanted the Gods from the Machine Operation to contain BiS gear and be the most consistent source for Tier 4 gear. But, since we only offer one boss encounter right now, it’s making it difficult for you to obtain Tier 4 gear. We have been discussing two ideas to address this issue and would like your feedback:

  1. We double the amount of drops awarded in both 8 and 16-player difficulties. This means there is a random aspect of what is dropping, but there will be more chances of receiving Tier 4 gear based on the number of players participating in the Operation.
  2. We leave the amount of gear drops as is, but we add Unassembled Components to each boss. This would mean that players running Master Mode would not only be receiving a chance at Tier 4 gear, but they are also working towards being able to upgrade/purchase the Tier 4 gear they need. We realize Unassembled Components have been attributed to PvP activities, but we could make that adjustment.

So what do you think? Do you like or dislike option 1 or 2 above? Is there something you are concerned about with either idea? What idea was not mentioned that you think could solve this? Let us know!



  • KissMethod: KeepItSimpleStupid

    Seriously, just use a simplified gear-token system so we can use the gear-token the boss drops to go and buy the gear piece we need.

    • Logan

      The old way worked just fine honestly. It’s like they have no clue what to do next, so they just retweak things that didn’t need to be touched. I mean, did the comms really need to be renamed to Crystals? Did SM, HM and NiM need to be renamed to SM, Veteran and Master for OPS? But that new ship map doe…

      Oh and before the guy with tourettes about constructive solution or living in the past comments that my posts are apparently in the same vein, that’s just our given right as free folks to comment as we please, be it “part of the problem” or a solution. Though, to debate for debate’s sake, rolling back IS a solution. Old adage, if it’s not broke, don’t fix it. My old man use to say, if something being done stupid or wrong, don’t fix it with something even worse. That’s everything they’ve “Made better” lately. I love the game, and I’m definitely part of the group of let down players by how things have been lately. But I will say the time I loved this game the most was before 4.0 dropped. Things went to shit drastically when that dropped.

      • LargeMass

        I would think that many of the people who posted above would hardly say…the game in 2014 “wasn’t broke”.. people are never satisfied. Heard the saying The grass isn’t always greener?


        • Logan

          Oh I’m hardly saying that the game was perfect back then, just that it was better than it feels now. You should see my grass, it’s totally greener on that other side..I can see it. My eyes wouldn’t deceive me….right?? They better not be..

          Well, that is the stigma of our flawed species. Neverending satisfaction. I mean they wouldn’t have written a song about it if we were ever satisfied. Hell, if I was ever satisfied with all of the shit I’ve been collecting, you bastards making millions off me on the GTN wouldn’t be satisfied either in your diabolical greed!

          Now I will admit, I started playing the game in 2014, so my baseline of how the game’s health/direction starts there. I have heard some wonderful stories about the game pre 2014. And how some felt that RoHC sucked big blue balls from a Trandosian. And some feel that the F2P launch killed the game (I’m a sub, not supporting or slamming), etc. Not going with anyone’s feelings or thoughts. Merely saying that for me…I liked the game the most in 2014 up to launch of 4.0. For me, that’s when I felt a major tectonic slide in the game. Of course there were things I didn’t like much, but most I could live with. It was just a tilt then…for me.

          The moral of the story is basically, just let people vent. Even if it’s not productive or relevant. Venting allows people to get over their pent up hostilities and move forward with accepting the new and hopefully better direction someone else is trying to move in to make up for their idiocy. I mean like I said, I’m skeptical about things because of the past, but I’m trying to give them the benefit of the doubt in making things right. #MakeSWTORGreatAgain. Sorry, had to.

        • HMHero

          You just don’t understand the difference between better and perfect, these words are easy to look up and mean drastically different things, you should check out their definitions.

      • LargeMass

        FUCK!! Sorry….my Tourette’s.

        • Logan


  • Tony

    Unassembled component drop, no question. The grind in Pvp is maddening, the crate drops are frustrating and worthless, and the attainability of 248 gear from ops is totally server or guild dependent. My guild is the ops guild on Bergeren and we are struggling to keep a HM prog team together. We have lost tons of people because of the elder game drought.

    • Logan

      The PvP grind is Oedipal in nature. Yes I’m sure that’s not even a word, but I need a broach for my eyes after I grind out just the daily, forget the weekly. It’s amazing too, because I swear, when I get 2 wins, the daily crate sucks, but when I have 4 losses it’s better. Same goes for the weekly, if it’s lots of losses, I’ll get a Schem. It’s like they know!

      I’m on Begeren as well, and our pop is hurting, even moreso for competent OPS players. My guild is tiny, and I don’t have the ppl to even think about organizing a SM Op let alone a HM one. So I’ve been a full time PUG for a LONG time. And the downside is that trying to find a PUG slot for HM is still not all that easy, sadly.

      Parts of the GC system are ok, but overall, I wish it would just be set on fire.

      • Tony

        If you love ops, which for me is what I enjoy doing the most, join Blitzkrieg. We run stuff daily with HM prog, just having reliability and scheduling issues with regulars on that front.
        In general, the lack of dynamic eldergame content has me getting bored with the game. I am finally paying attention to my Pub toons a bit, but after 2.5 years of obsessive play, I feel like I may end up taking a game break like I did after 1.0.
        They need to double down on ops, daily areas and adding more content to the casinos like…Pazzak!

  • Shadowofdeath

    It would have to be more than a few unassembled tokens, as in, enough to get a quarter of a piece of gear from a vendor.

    Last thing we want is to have someone do the math and say “we’d have to do every master mode operation every week for a year to afford a full set of T4”

    • dfacts

      This exactly. More pieces. Many NiM raiders don’t have time or inclination to farm pvp for the rest of the components they’d need.

    • A quarter might be asking a little much, with tokens you only get one token per 8 bosses on average. UC are a little less convenient since you also need to get the 242 piece and you gear 8 people slowly instead of your most critical raid members fast, but the flexibility of UC makes up for that I think.

  • Fred Garvin

    3. Rollback game to 2014.

    • Yallida

      100% this ☺

      • Paulo Gomes

        I’ll take your 100%, and add 100% of my own.

    • LargeMass

      See answer above, living in the past doesn’t make the present any better.

      • Fred Garvin

        See answer right here in which I don’t care about your acceptance of mediocre effort on a AAA IP.

        • LargeMass

          We’re not talking about acceptance Fred. We’re talking about your hang up’s…namely being stuck in the past. AND.. “Bioware being interested in your thoughts on some proposed changes to Master Mode operation gear drop.”….But if it make you feel better, you don’t have to care 😀

          • HMHero

            Your complaints would hold more weight if you yourself would have posted a single opinion as was asked for, all you are so far is a contrarian and a hypocrite calling people out for exactly what you are doing, just admit you have no opinion and let others have theirs or it’s obvious you are just trolling this topic.

          • Fred Garvin

            You can care for all of us, LargeMass. I read this reply and heard it in Craig’s voice.


      • Unoshi

        really…. you do know that, that was the best way to obtain loot right… this whole command stuff is just a cluster fuck in a cluster fuck.. you talk about give constructive feedback… that was constructive feedback rollback to 2014 cause there was nothing wrong with the loot system and the game was a whole lot better comparing to what they do now, so yes that past would have made for a better future

        the reason why people don’t even bother with giving them feed back on said topic, is because they have been doing so since this game went f2p and 8/10 the feedback has been ignored.

        • LargeMass

          Really…was it….THAT great?! I could probably fill this page with the “trash BW” talk of 2014. Point for that would be, not satisfied then, not satisfied now. Have a tangible constructive solution. 🙂

          • Unoshi

            apparently you don’t seem to know the difference between it was better compared with now and omg it was so fucking good hmm. cause i never claimed it was “That good” but it’s all good. you seem to be the type that if someone doesnt share your view be gone. I gotcha.

            • LargeMass

              Well…”better” people seemed to not be satisfied with that either. See the 2014 “cluster fuck” lol. But hey it’s me right? Not you? Here is the thing…at least BW is asking. To me, how can that be a bad thing…if they do something with it…….that’s another story.


            • Paulo Gomes

              He’s also missing the FACT that we used to have RNG in the game, back in the day. It was taken out because EVERYBODY HATED IT.

              So Galactic Command is indeed a sort of return to the past… Which defeats his argument that they “can’t go back”… But that’s just me, what do I know. I’ve only been here since launch…

          • Paulo Gomes

            Well… If BW hadn’t changed the loot system we would not need a tangible constructive solution to the problem in the first place… The previous system worked just fine. This was a change no one wanted, no one asked for. They did it anyway, despite the out roar of the community against it. Typical BW. And now they introduce a new tier without having the content to show for it, creating yet another clusterfuck…

            They create their own problems, and then ask for the opinion of the community on how they can be made better… Fred Garvin gave them the correct solution.

            • LargeMass

              Right Paulo, but they did…cant go back. No Marty Mcfly’s here. “Just fine” is a relative term. And if I’m correct BW can typically do what they want to with “their” game right?? Did they need permission to make the changes they did? Fred Garvin used a “Just fine” reference of time long gone. 2014 the community shucked this shit just as much as you guys are now. Who is right and who is wrong lol…


              • Paulo Gomes

                Yeah, they can do whatever they want with their game.

                As I can do whatever the hell I want with my money. And just between the two of us: it isn’t being spent on TOR anymore…

                And why can’t they “go back”??? Didn’t they go back to group content after the KotFE/KotET debacle? Didn’t they just recently change the loot system to something that resembles the previous system, only more difficult to understand and more convoluted?

                Are you aware of the shitstorm in Forums EVERYWHERE when Ben Irving, that classy dude announced Galactic Command? Are you aware that Bioware often do EXACTLY the opposite of what is the general consensus of the community? Were you here when they made a poll about changing the companions’ power? Are you aware that they did EXACTLY the opposite of what the community expressed? Were you here when guys like me claimed that story-only driven expansions would put a serious dent in the game? Well… Guess what? I was right, and the almighty BW were wrong mate…

                They sure don’t need our permission man… But they sure do need our (your) money… Wouldn’t it be nice if, for once, they did what their PAYING CUSTOMERS want, for a change?

              • LargeMass

                Paulo…you’re not a paying customer. You said so yourself. LOL I love you guys 😀

              • Paulo Gomes

                You’re missing my point man. I’m not a paying customer because I got fed up with these guys. I was for the longest time. And there are a lot of guys out there like me. A LOT. You can believe what I say, or not. But you can’t hide the truth. This game has seen better days, playing population is scarce. And I can prove that:


                Glad you love me. And “my” guys as well. Happy trails to you too man…

            • abaddonsmummy

              Hey Paulo always good to see you man, hope you and the family are well.
              Regarding this topic and gearing in general, because Bioware listened to the players is exactly the reason why they had to introduce the new tier because gearing is stupidly easy now.
              Even at tier 4 i’m getting about 8 cxp boxes for running sm ops, filled with 244 blue, 246 purple and 248 legendary, which I’m throwing out to my alts at a ridiculous speed.
              I took my Command level 1 Sith Jugg (who I’ve not used in 5.0) into HM DP this week and was pulling 7k dps without set bonus as he is in nearly full 244/246 with 240 crafted relics/ear/implants from all the cxp boxes I’m getting on my mains.
              Your right no-one asked for the change, I think they wanted to breath new life into the boring comms/crystals we’ve had for years and it backfired on them, but now I think they have listened to players concerns and made gearing stupidly easy, if over complicated.
              It won’t go back, it may completely change in 6.0, but until then it’s now much easier than it was.
              This is why I think it’s important to take these opportunities when offered, because if we don’t they wont be offered anymore.
              Now content to grind it on…….that’s another matter entirely 😛

              • Paulo Gomes

                I’m not against a new tier. I may have come off slightly more negative than I actually am on this.

                I can’t really comment on how easy or difficult it is to gear up these days. I leave that to you guys that actually play the game.

                Biggest problem I have with this system is gearing alts. I mean, I have 28 toons. OF COURSE I never had all of them at top tier, but I like a few of them nicely geared. You, know, my Engineering Sniper, my Deception Assassin, a couple of healers… And maybe a tank, since I’m a pretty lousy tank.

                With this system it’s virtually impossible for me to do that. If and when they solve the alt problem I may actually come back. Even with GC. I’ll take the grind. Just don’t make me grind ALL of the 28 toons lol…

              • abaddonsmummy

                Honestly it’s never been easier to gear alts now. When one of your toons hit tier 3 or 4 (so easy now with cxp boosts from vendors and legacy boosts) you can then farm this gear out to your toons as before with legacy gear, then you can farm EV/KP/S&V (the easiers HM ops) and send the set bonus gear to them too.
                I’ve had to spend millions on extra storage bays on my mains for all the 240+ gear I’m getting from cxp boxes and form Ops boss drops.
                I’ve geared several Command lvl 1 toons to full hm ops ready this way.
                You only need 1 or 2 high level toons to do this and with the new 25% cxp legacy level boost for toons under lvl 300 it very easy.
                But as easy and as fun as this is it’s not as much fun as getting good new group content 🙁

              • Paulo Gomes

                Well then… Maybe it’s about time I logged in and checked the game out. Maybe when the latest Op is finally done…

  • gua543

    Option #3 – Release more bosses.

    • LargeMass

      See answer above.

      • gua543

        I’m well aware that my answer doesn’t help in any way to the devs, but they’re treating the symptoms, not the cause. The whole loot system right now is broken – it’s a monumental grind with really crappy changes of getting something decent.

        On the one char that I managed to try out this new system before my sub ran out, I got 2 of my pieces from the crates, and the other four from unassembled ops drops. I reached GC level 70. And this was supposed to allow casuals to get set gear quicker than before? What was the problem with getting a starter set for sm ops with basic comms?

  • Yallida

    We’ll… This is stupid… Why on earth Unassembled Components should drops from Master Mode ops?
    Let me be clear I’m not PVPer and I do PvP only for daily and weekly quests and I think is enough to collect UC… Yea it’s take much more time to collect missing 248′ but come on… If UC drops from Master Mode it should drops from Veteran Mode also (over 80% raiders left in this game do mostly HM ops) or they shouldn’t drops in any kinds of operations… IMO UCs should stays only in PvP area of activity…

    • Logan

      I personally don’t think that UCs should only be just in PvP. Not speaking for me, but the people who don’t PvP or do OPS, generally will have to grind a LOT for max gear to drop from GC crates. I think that UCs should either drop from Crates as well, or can be selected as disintegration reward instead of CXP, like an option, pick either CXP or a certain amount of UCs per disintegration points. I don’t think they should be in OPS either, because you can win the roll for the Tokens to trade for them. But I think they should drop for pure PvE players.

      • ConcernedGuest

        Even if I dislike PVP and as once fully addicted raider but now (hopefully) cured and only casual player and raider I tell you …
        … ppl who do not PVP or HC or NiM operations just have NO NEED for endgame gear.

        For what? running around on some planet daylies with 248er gear? How ridiculous. How boring.

        On many planets you don’t even need gear. Put a mainhand on your char and its good.
        Yesterday I walked rishi with my jugger, tankgear on the guardian, only equipped with implants, ear, relics and mainhand and while running dailies NO ONE stood a change.
        Everything died within moments.

        Or flashpoints. Buy some 230 gear set, or run a few SM ops for 236 and its more than enough.

        Or maybe I have just seen to much ppl geared up in HC gear (casually farmed in EV/KP) thinking they could just go through a other HC ops on the flyby without even having the slightest idea how to play their class or to know some real boss mechanics.
        Well, no offense meant.

  • abaddonsmummy

    Kudos for asking the community.

    • Dr. Mike Wendell

      You drank the koolaid, didn’t you?

      • abaddonsmummy

        I assume this is a reference to the Jonestown suicide/killings.
        So I guess you don’t think them asking the community is a good thing?
        As someone who has been disappointed in Biowares communication and handling of things I thought you of all people would approve of this type of community based interaction and feedback exercise, no?

        • HMHero

          Don’t forget Heaven Gate, you’re not being inclusive with your outrage.

      • Shawn Hargrave

        That one serves it and stockpiles it lol

  • Mark Bishop

    Doubling drop rates would be the most helpful. It would almost ensure there is a piece of gear for everyone in the group if loot rules are set up by the group leader. Nothing worse that spending hours on a dungeon and not getting any drops.

  • Or… crazy thought – release the rest of the operation.

    • LargeMass

      That’s not what they are asking. So think of a constructive solution to the question they are asking, and send them the feedback. You’re part of the problem.

      • HMHero

        What you are doing is also not constructive and part of the problem.

        • LargeMass

          I don’t have a complaint about this post, I think its great they are reaching out to the community, to find out what the “players” think. I’m not lulling around wishing there was a “full” Operation, instead of giving some constructive feedback about proposed changes to MM.

          • Logan

            That may not be what they are asking, but reread above. “Gods From the Machine does not follow the above rules”. Teacher why would that not follow the rest of the rules? Because Billy, we’re being cheap and don’t want to worry about keeping our paying customers paying and haven’t released anything worth while to keep their attention and want to siphon from them while we lazily release a full Op, over the course of the whole year…

            When 4.0 Dropped, they released a Story AND both Rav and ToS. That was…like 2 years ago, and what they give us, is a single boss, and now 2-3 months later, another boss. Whereas I’m greatful we are at least getting something, but come on, work harder, and release the whole damn thing at once. It’s not like they are taking their time as to not have any bugs in it Eternity Vault .

            Ergo, from my rant, a solution to make the drops better for HM Gods would be…as Crolug so well put, focus fully on Gods Op, and finish it now. Problem solved, and it was Constructively offered. Done.

            PS. I also don’t have a complaint about the post in relation to them asking for our feedback. HOWEVER, I can say as part of experience, they have generally ignored us for a long time now. So pretty much everyone here has a “I’ll believe it when I see it” mentality about what they are now trying to do for us. Devs are finally seeing some writing on the wall, and are trying to kiss our ass to make us happy. They’ll need to go beyond to achieve that with a lot of the players who have been around for a while though.

            • LargeMass

              I’m giving Keith a chance is all I can say. I’ve seen a shift in behavior. Whether that ends up for the best or worse. Time will tell. It’s going to take “a little bit of time” to undo the shit-storm. But far a FACT…the communication is getting better.

              • abaddonsmummy

                Yes this, this is a definite shift in behaviour.
                I guess like you it troubles me when we see the change start to happen that people have been screaming for years for, to be listened to, to change the games focus finally, yet it get’s the same banal responses that we see here.
                Your always going to get posts like crolug’s, just here be edgy and try for votes, or like others who’s only input is to defend the complainers right to complain.
                It forum life here 🙂

          • HMHero

            You have yet to give any feedback constructive or otherwise about the topic, all your comments are just criticisms of other peoples opinions. As you said above, ‘part of the problem.’

        • abaddonsmummy

          So wait, your complaining about him complaining about someone complaining off topic.
          Wait am I now complaining? Damn.
          Anyway I had my say on the official forums.

          • HMHero

            I don’t really feel like I’m complaining about anything, yet, just posting my observations for now.

  • HMHero

    Pieces should drop from all ops bosses like before, exactly like it was before.

  • Wayshuba

    I believe the normal saying is “too little, too late.” In BW’s case in regards to SWTOR it instead is “too late for too little.”

    They really screwed the pooch with the introduction of the CxP system – and they are not going to recover from it (see latter quote above).

  • Praedicator

    I like the New gearing system. So i can pve and pvp and gear my main and alts faster with the highest tier.
    Still dont get why people still and always complain about everything as always.

    • Emon McCullen

      I’m in the same boat. While every1 was bitching for months how bad the CXP system is, I actually renewed my sub due to the triple XP event and was able to get 4 sets to almost full 246/248 gear. After that I started the next 2 sets which I got started off with some crafted 240 stuff and they were on all 236-248 gear within 2-3 weeks. This is more than enough for all SM stuff and some HM stuff as well.

      Before 5.2 I was never able to consistently get BIS pieces as the HM raid of the week was removed. Since then my total gear rating was better than ever.

      • Dilemmas

        You can both say that now, but the system is so dramatically different to what it was. The design philosophy went from GC crates being the only source of good gear, to being a supplementary source.

        As it is, the system is in a good place for PvErs, but PvPers have to gind for a lot longer, and aren’t having such a good time with it, and it’s created a power gap between players in WZs.

        • abaddonsmummy

          The grind is a lot less, with 3 alts in Tier4 I’ve kitted out my other dozen alts in purple 246 or gold 248 gear and I can craft all Iokath relics/earpices/implants with all the schematics I’ve got form the boxes at tier3/tier4 and now im getting to craft 246 items.
          Your right it was harder at the start, but now it crazily easy.

      • abaddonsmummy

        Yeah I’ve never known it so easy, yet people are still living in the past with, it was simple in 4.0.
        It was also boring in 4.0 where I hit the max with all my alts and for what felt like ever had nowhere else to go with them, running ops was pointless as the certs/crystals were pointless and maxed out and you had all the set bonus’s.
        Now it feels like whatever I do I’m getting crates and good gear, crazy amounts of good gear that I’m sending over to my alts.

        • John Dullebawn III

          I agree the weekly HM op that dropped 224 gear was crap in 4.0 made it too easy to gear in top tier gear. Still its even easier now. Was bored and joined an EV HM, had a guy is basically full 248 gear. He must have died 12-14 times and kept complaining about how easily he dies in this great gear. LoL say hello to our new player base.

      • John Dullebawn III

        That’s the problem for most people, all the Bis gear you got that quick? Let me guess you were running NiM content every day? No you were gaining CXP the fastest way you could, in other words the easiest way you could. Gear is no longer something you work hard to gain, its just given to you for gaining a new cxp level. But hey since thats how alot of people seem to like it, its yours. Just a shame what happened to the basic ability level of people playing this game. Sad to see it. But what’s to be expected when everything is handed to people for finding the fastest easiest way to get the best gear the game has to offer. The funny thing is alot of people think since they have BiS gear they are hm ready lol. GL SWTOR

    • Vanechka

      I CXP system is great. I have to say at the beginning it was a bit rough but it’s getting better and better,It is easy to gear up alts if you know how to. I think the people angry about the system is because they do not understand it. Knowledge is power my friends.

  • Jordan Allen

    I love’d this game, but the directions the game was taking were constantly at odds with the wishes of the subscribing player base (including myself.)

    I haven’t end game raided since the Eternal Throne update, I canned my sub, and have only been on briefly to assess the train wreck of the command XP system. I’d love to come back, but until the game (and in specifics BW and EA management) treats its sub and loyal player base with respect, I can’t see that happening.

    Sorry Eric and team. I know BW has had a ruff few months, but the truth is that it seems to stem from spineless management and poor focus/direction. Everyone knows the shop floor engineers and team members work hard and pour their life into these projects. But there just appears to be no clear direction or strong leadership focused on:
    a) firstly keeping the existing subscriber base happy
    b) growing that subscriber base.

    Content is king, and at the moment it’s been over 2.5 years since the last full operations were released. The game since the release of 4.xx has been a mess of poor decisions, with time, money and resources spent on modifying systems that didn’t need fixing and were not broken; instead of developing new content. Now since you’ve made a mess and wasted cash, you’re having to spend yet more time and cash on fixing a now broken system… instead of new content!!!

    Ask any subscribing player, whether they be PvP or Op focused, and each one will tell you they would have preferred new operations and PvP instances based on existing lore and storylines, vs. a brief solo extension to the excellent 0-50 class stories. That can realistically only be enjoyed the first time. For players with many characters (your subscribers) this just becomes a grind as there are no class differences.

    SWTOR 3.XX was the last great expansion.

    • abaddonsmummy

      That was a good post mate but I personally think it’s all a matter of perspective.
      For someone that was a happy non hardcore raider I really missed the group content progression that hasn’t happened like you say in 2.5 years but what we have had is a huge single player story focused expansion over 2 years that has brought an influx of new players into the game which at the same time drove a lot of the hard-core raiders away.
      Our guild is 1/2 new players and 1/2 old players(quite a few returners), and the thing I’ve realised about the players that have left over the years and guilds that have crumbled is that this started to happen before Kotfe/Kotet (and yes they left at Kotfe too), players just get bored and move on to different things.
      My old guild died during Rothc, plenty of new content there but the players got bored and went to other games or real life.
      The new players in our guild were brought in by Kotfe Kotet and loved it (going by what they are saying) which has then brought them into the raiding aspect of the game and has got them to sub.
      You see its a difficult balance to keep everyone happy and Bioware got it wrong in my opinion with Kotfe/Kotet for 2 years, but I now believe they’re on the right track again with Iokath and it’s multi focus content, giving dailys, pvp, group content.
      Here’s hoping they can continue that in 2017 with Keith at the helm.

      • Paulo Gomes

        Well, it may be a matter of perspective Abby.

        But the numbers don’t lie. Population in this game is slowly but steadily decreasing. That’s the only point I don’t agree with, when you say KotFE/KotET brought in new players. If it did, a lot more went away.

        Yes, people come and go all the time. BUT browsing this site you can clearly see that on a scale of 0 to 6, NO SERVER GOES ABOVE 2.


        Now you can’t tell me that that is a healthy gaming population.

        Here’s hoping they can turn it around. I for one would love to come back to the game. I have the will to do it. I just need some incentive…

        • Drivan

          I think it is all about perspective and location. Perhaps in teh UK and in some areas of Europe the player base is growing, but it is definitely shrinking in the US SWTOR the US servers are barren for the most part. Perhaps there are players coming back on RP servers/communities and in casual communities, but end game communities are dead.

      • ThatGuy

        I’m going to state the obvious by saying that SWTOR is an MMO. The addition of online single-player content was a huge mistake, and marketed the game to the wrong group of people. We have since gotten an influx of noobs with little to no raid awareness, have no idea how to work as a team in PvP, and generally create headaches when joined in group content. The public-facing dev team (not necessarily the programmers) has consistently lied out their ass with “everyone loves what we’re doing”, and “our subscriber base just keeps growing”, and “lots of ‘exciting’ new content coming soon”, and whatever other non-truthful crap they’ve touted over time.

        The majority of veteran players have gone. It’s evident when reading most of the class guides that were written for 5.0. If the game is going to survive, it needs to go back to being a true MMO with regular, consistent content additions. I somehow doubt that will happen, not unless EA decides to hire a couple dozen people to work on the game.

        This is coming from a realist, and not a pessimist. I still play the game, and would love to see it get better. I just don’t see it happening anytime soon.

        • Paulo Gomes

          Since you did mention it: I actually saw an announcement from BW on Facebook that they were hiring… I don’t know if it’s for BW Austin, but they are doing it…

      • John Dullebawn III

        Until they can fix alot of issues I dont think its going to matter how much endgame content they release, unless tehy would do something crazy like release a full operation a year(yea right lol). When weekend warriors running heroics and SM PF’s are walking around in the same gear as a NiM raider there is a serious issues with how the system handles gear. Raiders do not and will never want to not only have to gain 5 new levels every new release, have to gain 300(maybe more soon) GC levels per alt and new token alts, plus work on their raid content. They have this gearing system so out of wack not sure how they will repair it. And yea it does bother me after working on NiM content for hours and hours. Completing said NiM content then a guy that just plays heroics and sm content has the same gear sometimes even better than what I just gained for hours clearing NiM? not cool BW

    • Nananananananana Batman

      Could not agree more.

      Ben Irving, who was in charge of production, seemed to be the big wrench in the works. The new guy does seem to actually listen to the playerbase and is interested in changing things for the better. But I don’t know if it’s too little too late. All the good will they had they squandered. Most of the people I used to raid with since 2.0 and through 3.0 all quit the game at some point in 5.0. People that have played the game since beta and they just had enough.

      Fact is they made this system and now we’re stuck with it. I do like how it’s a supplementary system now, as it should have been, I do like how they’ve eliminated PvP specific gear giving everybody the opportunity to PvP, I do like how everything builds into this system and the adjustments made since they launched it. But there still are a fair amount of issues. The grind is still far to much. It is still alt unfriendly, punishing the most dedicated playerbase, and it desperately needs a legacy system involved in it. The lack of good meaningful group content that is well made and enjoyable seems to be something they’re trying to rectify, but the drip feeding of it is not a good release strategy.

      I hope they turn it around but I dunno. Bioware needs to realize that the chances of them bringing in a mass of new players with these instant ___ tokens and singleplayer this and that isn’t going to happen. They need to start keeping their core playerbase happy. The ones that have been playing for years, through all the shit decisions, and still want to play the game. It’s much easier to keep a current customer than it is to get a new one, and it’s much harder to bring a disgruntled customer back tha both of those things.

  • ckm

    🙁 Put all boss T4 legendry gears (or little bit better maybe 250) on master mode.. all players can focus get gear like old times when S&V and TFB nim mode come..

  • guest

    If you are not going to put 248’s on NIM non-final bosses, the least you can do is let each boss drop a specific 246 unassembled slot. No more RNG. and no more blues/greens. You made a big mistake introducing legendary and now you have a big gear bloat problem.

    Unassembled components are a nice idea, but with the way you have them set up to require an upgrade to purchase is too convoluted. You would have to drop a difficulty level to Hard Mode to obtain the desired piece to use your components to upgrade.

    Any piece in any tier should be directly purchasable for components.

  • Ann Nonymous

    “We leave the amount of gear drops as is, but we add Unassembled Components to each boss.” You still need the previous piece…and it is extremely alt unfriendly. At least if the shells weren’t tied to a particular class. Anyway I am unsubbed since a few days and don’t intend to resub with the current system (Going through KOFTE with each toon is pointless, so alts don’t gain any command points, having to run a bunch of PVP to get PVE gear, meh).

  • Nuno Bacharel

    Lol, someone still struggling to gear around this days…?

  • EyesOfGehenna .

    You need to deal with the fact that most people do not have NiM on farm. And that means wiping on bosses with zero rewards and losing credits, while you can go full retard in pvp and lose every match and still gain components towards your next BiS slot.

    As long as that inequality is not dealt with, your system sucks. How can it be that failing in pvp rewards you and failing in NiM doesn’t? And then when you do finally succeed at downing that boss in NiM, you don’t even get BiS gear most of the time? You guys at BioWare are full mad and the fact that your new ops is taking forever to come out is also not the players’ fault but you do punish them for it. Just let go and give all NiM bosses BiS drops. It’s the only thing that can even begin to make it fair. Just dancing around that is not.

    If you want to give Unassembled Components, then you need to reward that to people in activities where more people can actually gain rewards. NiM is not a farm for the vast majority of players and pvp is because it requires zero skill to gain currency.

    You’re still barking up the wrong tree and your biggest mistake since launch year is Galactic Command and 7 months in you’re still clinging to it as if it was your mother. It’s not. It’s a mistake that should be undone. You act in raiding as if it’s special to win it, but in pvp you give it away. Just a matter of time played. As long as you keep that alive, you’ll never fix the underlying inequality. You fail again.

    • John Dullebawn III

      Well the issue with NiM and the new gearing is, NiM drop quality gear used to be the best in the game and not really needed, was just a benefit to acquire so your group could clear NiM a bit easier/faster. But now with G.C. and pvp and pve gear being the same there will never be a way to fix the issue you brought up about NiM content. Some people me included don’t think that BiS tier is really needed anyway. Wasn’t it Failure who did all the 5.0 Ops in 224 gear? I think that’s right. Anyway with the way they give 248 gear to weekend warriors running heroics and story mode FP’s there will never be a “fair” way for people who only use operations to gear again. But as I said earlier 248 gear or BiS gear for any level (when we hit 75,80 ect) is not needed it used to be something “shiny” that you were proud to own and install in your armor, they took all its worth and tossed it out the window.

      • EyesOfGehenna .

        I agree with you that the top tier never made sense in NiM, but it’s what drove people to do it. I personally would’ve prefered seeing more cosmetic rewards that you can show off having done NiM as it is, but there is another side to it. NiM was not doable for most players. The level of coordination and precision required just isn’t for most players. So the problem was that the investment into NiM mechanics was a poor one because it benefitted a relatively small group of players. I believe that this one reason why they started including 224 gear in HM to begin with. The other being that most people like to get “the best gear” even if they don’t need it and the object of a game is to keep people playing. Not saying it’s the best solution but I think that’s what’s behind that.

        The problem with 5.0 is that they stopped rewarding NiM fairly compared to other activities in the game. I don’t see why it makes sense to hand out BiS gear in PvP for showing up while in NiM you first have to work at beating bosses (and fail lots of times for most players) only to be rewarded less than BiS gear. That just makes zero sense to me. The only reason I can see is that they worry that the remaining hardcore raiders would get BiS gear too quickly but to punish the whole raiding community for that just baffles me.

        All in all 5.0 broke my will to play this game. I tried with 5.2 but I just didn’t care anymore. I think I’ll wait a couple of expansions and then I’ll play it for a couple of months and then I can leave again. That seems a fair assessment considering how fast new content comes out.

Back to Top