SWTOR Proposed Class Changes for Arsenal Merc/Gunnery Commando in 5.3

Bioware published another round of class changes for Arsenal Merc and Gunnery Commando in Patch 5.3. This will bring in some nerfs to those specs.

Class Changes: Arsenal Merc / Gunnery Commando | 06.16.2017, 11:06 AM
Hey folks,

Round 2! Below are the changes planned for Arsenal Merc / Gunnery Commando in Game Update 5.3. Here are the notes from the Combat Team:

Quote:
Note: All changes below are currently in development and are subject to change before being released.

Mercenary
Arsenal

  • Blazing Bolts deals 4.89% less damage and costs 20 heat (up from 16)
  • Barrage no longer increases the damage dealt by Blazing Bolts, but still finishes its active cooldown
  • Riddle no longer improves Unload
  • The critical damage bonus provided by Target Tracking is now 15% (down from 30%)
  • Decoy now has 2 charges (down from 5)


Commando
Gunnery

  • Boltstorm deals 4.89% less damage and costs 20 energy cells (up from 16)
  • Curtain of Fire no longer increases the damage dealt by Boltstorm, but still finishes its active cooldown
  • Rotary Cannon no longer improves Full Auto
  • The critical damage bonus provided by Deadly Cannon is now 15% (down from 30%)
  • Decoy now has 2 charges (down from 5)


DevNotes: With the changes to Arsenal / Gunnery, we wanted to bring the Discipline down to its target DPS. We also wanted to make heat / energy cell management a little more challenging for the Arsenal / Gunnery player, so we slightly increased the cost of Blazing Bolts / Boltstorm while reducing the damage it deals.

Another goal we had for Arsenal / Gunnery was to tone down its burst damage potential a bit, so we reduced the critical damage bonus granted by Target Tracking / Deadly Cannon to shrink the size of those big Heatseeker Missile / Demolition Round and Rail Shot / High Impact Bolt critical hits.

Finally, we felt that Decoy needed a significant reduction in power, so we reduced the number of charges it provides from 5 down to 2.

Let us know what you think of the changes coming to Arsenal and Gunnery in GU 5.3. Thanks!

  • Durr

    So back to useless?

  • Matt Man

    still got my reflect im good
    but honestly they should share this with PT/VG

  • BobbyOrr

    Lol. I don’t even play anymore but on paper, that’s one of the biggest nerfs i’ve seen in a game in a long time. Out of curiosity, does anyone know about what %dps nerf this will be?

    • Durr

      It is an extraordinary nerf that will make gunnery unplayable. These people have no idea what they are doing. Killing pve dps commando completely (because assault is useful only on handful of bosses).

      • TheCulprit

        I don’t know, but am I the only person who plays the same spec regardless of the parse? My main is Madness sorc since beta to a few months ago when the sub ran out. I noticed it’s been weak since 5.0 dropped, but I’m not so far out of whack that I can’t clear dps checks.

        I don’t remember if it was 2.0 or 3.0, but one of those Madness was a monster and fotm. That was extra fun for a while until it got balanced, but I still played it. Why give up a spec, unless you’re a hardcore raider NiM or something? You just play the style you like, right? I like DoT ranged, so that’s what I play. Just me?

        I don’t get the “they nerfed my spec!!? Now it’s useless and can’t play it anymore” attitude.

        • Yallida

          It was around 2.8 till 3.0….
          Peeps will leave Arsenal Merc because now clicking 5 buttons they won’t be master of dps… Which makes them pathetic…

        • Paulo Gomes

          It depends on the nerf, really. If the basic characteristics of the class are changed to the point it’s painful to play it I put it aside.

          I remember the nerf to Operative healers. Now they DID need a nerf, I’m not disputing that. Anyone that played a Operative healer knew they were OP as hell. But it was so radical it almost became a different class. And because you lost all burst healing you were always over compensating for that. It was really not fun.

          In recent times some of that lost burst healing was returned to the class via Utilities, and I picked it up again. Still my favourite class to heal.

          But no way as fun to play as it used to be…

        • You’re not the only one – I’m playing powertech pyrotech since the beta, I love it even more now, after BW cleaned up the specs and it is really all about fire now :). The same before with my fury warrior in WoW since I acquired berserker stance (can’t remember now – lvl 30? 40?)

      • Yallida

        LoL it’s gonna be harder to achieve current level of dps but still possible… And you already crying that they destroy class… LoL you just make my day… 😁

    • Damian

      Nerf is definetely similar to 4.0.3 Marksmanship and Advanced Prototype. It is going to be 1000-1500 DPS nerf.

  • Tony

    With these changes, are they accounting for the fact that many raid groups assign DPS to specific tasks to minimize the weakness of the class? When this happens, melee end up doing long, sustained damage on the majority of boss fights against near-stationary targets with buffed abilities, their weakened dps counterparts are on boss/adds just as much as they are and will simply do less damage, period. Karagga for example. Minimal movement required for a Mara, they will be on the boss ass much as a Lightning Sorc, but the LS has not a prayer for similar numbers. True, you have fights like Titan 6 that require lots of movement that advantage ranged, but those fights are less than half of all boss fights.

  • Jeremy Drake

    Lol it was fun when it was super easy to play aye everyone. Maybe it will be fun to start playing again that it might be a little more challenging.

  • Seph

    Lol. Parsing stats are not hugely important in pvp. Survivability and burst is where it’s at. The merc imbalance was due to the overly generous dcd’s given to a ranged class. This doesn’t address that at all.

    • Shadowofdeath

      I’m assuming they will be addressing DCD’s after they (try) and bring all classes in line with where they want their DPS to be at

  • Jeremy Drake

    So True Seph.

  • gua543

    Should have addressed the defensive cooldowns more, they’re the real trouble. But dps nerf was needed, arsenal mercs/gunnery mandos have way too much burst and way too much sustained damage with literally endless resources during single-target dps.

  • Ravarah

    These are just changes to the specs, not the base advanced class, so they wont list the dcd changes (if there are any, god I hope so) so wait until full patch notes. Other than that I’d say the changes are good.

  • Ernie Bellavita

    Come on everyone know it’s the dcds that are ridiculous

  • John Kosto

    Ugh, I don’t like the fact that Commandos/Mercs are now the flavor of the expansion, and everyone has one, but having an Arsenal Merc since 4 years ago, I can’t say I am excited about the heat management changes. I utilize my AOEs a lot while raiding, and this will make a significant difference in tactic when you have to burn multiple adds in HM raids.

    I just wish they could just buff the DPS classes that need buffs (Powertechs/Vanguards, Sorcs/Sages, Guardians/Juggernauts mainly) or some specific specs (Sniper Marksmanship wtf) instead of this.

    • Paulo Gomes

      Same old, same old. The nerf bat continues to hammer down each class until it becomes painful to play it. In the aftermath of that, classes that do NOT get the bat become the next fotm.

      Case in point? Deception Assassin. Received no DPS buffs for as long as I can remember, but since virtually every other class was run over by a truck lo and behold: it became of of the strongest, if not THE strongest melee dps class.

      Expect the nerf bat to come down on those next…

      Oh: and wasn’t getting rid of Expertise the solution to all the pve/pvp unbalances in the game???

      What happened to that ingenious solution?

      • John Kosto

        Nah, Infiltration/Deception is a great DPS discipline, but no need to be nerfed at all, and I doubt it’s the STRONGEST one as you say. It’s exactly where it’s supposed to be, and since my main toon uses that, I refuse to believe that it will be nerfed, since it wasn’t even mentioned in Keith’s previous post about class balance.

        • Paulo Gomes

          Not my words, dear friend, not my words. Taken directly from the Deception PVE Class Guide:

          “As Deception stands to benefit most of all specs in the game from the stance doubling bug, its current single target dps is without equal. With the addition of Reaping Strike, the Reaper’s Rush utility, and changes to the uptime of Dark Embrace and the cooldown of Force Cloak, Deception has received a strict damage increase from its levels in 4.0. So, even without the stance doubling bug, the spec should be able to compete with/outperform Carnage, Fury, Hatred, Arsenal, Marksman, Concealment, and all Juggernaut, Powertech, and Sorceror specialisations in a single target parse.”

          http://dulfy.net/2017/01/17/swtor-5-0-deception-assassin-pve-guide-by-jaek/

          I have no idea if the double stance bug has been corrected. Even so, it stands as a mighty melee dps spec, as the author says. And being arguably easier to play than Annihilation that follows a strict rotation instead of a priority system I’d say it’s a safe bet that if not the most powerful at the very least it comes in a close second, with the added bonus of being easier to play.

          Could it be we are DISAGREEING on something??? Is this the beginning of a war of words between us??? Have I finally met my match on this Forum???

          πŸ™‚

          • John Kosto

            No we don’t disagree, because as you said, these are not your words πŸ˜›

            I don’t think you should just have taken the guide author’s words for granted, especially when not presented with actual data. Bant’s theory crafted predictions, but also parsing data taken from here, show that Deception/Infiltration is not actually high on the ranking, even though it’s better than average of course:

            http://parsely.io/parser/leaderboard/all/all/4000000/all/live/0/

            You can choose 1.5 mil or 2.5 mil target health as well, and the only case where you will see a Sin high on the board is the 1.5 mil target, which makes sense, since it is a bursty spec. For longer fights, Operatives, 2 out of 3 Marauder specs, Mercs, Virulence Snipers and even some Juggs, out-dps Shadows.

            And yes, the double stance bug has been fixed since months ago. So while Infiltration and Deception are still among the high ranked ones, they are definitely not one of the top ones, and do not need any nerfing at all.

            • Paulo Gomes

              That’s perfectly fine with me Kosto. As I said, I’m a bit (a lot) out of the loop, haven’t raided in AGES. So take my impressions on classes with a grain of salt…

              You know, my first chars in this game were, in order:

              – Watchman Sentinel
              – Sage Healer
              – Deception Assassin
              – Engineering Sniper
              – Operative Healer

              If I had to rate them, I’d put Engineering first, Operative second, Deception third, Watchman fourth and Sage fifth.

              So, Deception ranks pretty high on my prefs list. It was the third one ever created, and I got a lot of mileage out of that one. I never really liked my Sage Healer, but I fell in love with my Operative. Watchman went through a very complicated period, but now it’s ok I guess. But I never took to Sentinels. My favourite dps class to this day is Engineering, although I must admit to have LOTS of fun with Marksmanship. But Deception is very cool, and I hope they don’t mess with it. You know, just in case I return to the game…

          • Jaek

            LOL that was during class stance bug, my guide still hasn’t been updated by Dulfy! Deception is in a fine place right now, I think it’s very balanced.

          • Yallida

            Everything is stronger than spec dps…

          • Ry

            The bug was corrected several patches ago. Also not all assassins benefited from the double stance. You ONLY benefited from the bug if you were specced into Deception at the moment the expansion rolled out. Which meant, anyone in Hatred/Darkness or created after the expansion didn’t have the bug.

      • Yallida

        Strongest melee DPS in PvE are Guardians/Juggs… They do a lot more dmg than maras and sins… Because of saber reflect and retaliation… So maybe stop watching parses and look about boss fights…
        For example: KP HM last boss… Sins do there around 9-10k dmg in strictly single target rotation plus aoe on adds. Juggs do there around 11-12k dps just hitting their reflect… And if they are in dot spec they can easily hit over 13k via reflect and dot spreading… And this example is only one boss fight while it’s possible to do in almost every single one encounter…

        • Paulo Gomes

          I stand corrected. This is what happens when you haven’t played the game for months, haven’t raided in well over a year and still comment on the classes…

          • Yallida

            Well I play this game since lunch without any break so…

            • Paulo Gomes

              Me too, I played since launch (I think that’s what you meant, if you only played the game since LUNCH there would not be enough time to level a char to Endgame hehehehehe). But unfortunately I have had enough of the idiotic management of a game that could be monumental. Exactly one year after SoR I stopped subscribing, although I continued to play it. But these days I don’t even log on to it…

            • HMHero

              if current patterns are followed you should be letting your sub go because of bad dev and management decisions by dinner

        • Elruth

          they have reflect but it now it misses and quite often and you don’t use retaliation as dps unless you are rage, also if you were to look at challenges and the leaderboards you don’t see jugg at the top most of the time besides those few select juggs but they are below marauder and leth usually or barely above. Jugg is still one of the strongest melee classes but the reflect issue causes it to be below leth on heavy reflect fights (if they can survive the damage)

        • Jaek

          Wow KP HM prog confirmed as indicative of NiM prog

          • Yallida

            Wow which part “for example” u did not understand? OMG… Somebody pls tell me that not everyone has such problems to understand meaning of “example”…
            U wanna next example ok…
            Yesterday Dread Fortress Master mode:
            Guardian tank: almost 8k dps on Draxus and same result on Corruptor Zero.
            Guardian dps: 10k dps on Draxus and nearly 13k on Corruptor Zero and all thanks to dot spread and reflect.

            • Jaek

              Mara is/can be competitive or stronger than Jugg on those fights (as Carnage at least). But on the fights that actually ‘matter’ – MB/Revan HM, Brontes/Terror/Stryak Nim – juggs are well behind mara.

    • Damian

      Juggernauts are fine with Freeezing Force DoT utility.

      • John Kosto

        I have to admit that I don’t know about this one, since my Jugg (and my Guardian) are pretty low in the list of preferred alt toons, but I think they can’t compete with other classes.I haven’t seen any Guardian out-dps me when we raid, and I am playing an Infiltration Shadow, not a Mara, a Saboteur Slinger or a Commando who are at the top of the charts.

    • Ken Hamlin

      Just make all classes have same DPS/heals output in PvP period, nerf it there not through the entire expanse of the game.

    • De-ranker

      Sorry, I think you forgot operatives #nerfedsince1.0

      • John Kosto

        Operatives are the highest parsing class right now…. definitely no need for buff.

        • De-ranker

          PVE’ers lol

          • John Kosto

            LOL a pvper

    • Davrel Kex

      The problem with buffing everyone else is that it becomes an arms race, and makes time to kill in pvp way too low, and makes the pve content too easy. The content is balanced around certain metrics and numbers. Noone likes to be nerfed, but the truth is nerfs have to happen to order to keep the game even a little bit balanced and the content challenging.

  • Not John Wick

    I wonder how many mercs and commandos left in wzs now

    • Alivan

      lol

    • Durr

      Why? They did not touch their pvp performance. They still got their heal to full 3 abilities. What Bioware is doing here is killing the commando as a viable dps class for pve.

      • Bang bang

        Doesn’t say its for pve only, just reducing the damage and making heat and engery more challenging for the spec

      • Ken Hamlin

        It’s mainly for PvP nerf but PvE players are getting shafted due to PvP complaints.

    • John Kosto

      The same as before since these changes have not been applied yet

  • Alivan

    What about IO?

    • Damian

      Both IO and Arsenal are going to be nerfed but IO will be slightly nerfed while with these changes Arsenal just goes on Lightning and Makrsmanship level.

      • Durr

        It doesn’t make any sense. IO is mostly useless on most of the master operation bosses, and 100% unplayable in PvP. Why would they nerf it? This is ridiculous. Are they trying to kill the commando class again?

        • Damian

          Only fights where I would not prefer to play IO are: Calphayus, Colonel Vorgath, Titan 6, Olok the Shadow and Operator IX. Neither of these is serious boss. And IO is playable in PvP, even funny, you can dot-spread πŸ™‚ They are going to nerf it because IO does more damage than melee DoT specs (except Lethality). And yes, it looks like they don’t want to see Commando the most popular class. Blame re-rollers.

          • Durr

            NiM Brontes is not very IO friendly either. Dot spread doesn’t make the spec any viable PvP wise. It’s still the underdog of all PvP specs. There are few other bosses with more intense target switching and burst requirement where Arsenal is better than IO, like the TfB and Styrak.

            • Damian

              IO does on more than Arsenal on every challege. Especially Brontes where the fight is about burn phase. Styrak is sustain combat if you know how to manage your GCD’s. And maybe TFB because there its not sustain. But there is no DPS check if you know how to play the boss tho.

              • Ken Hamlin

                IO takes a bit to get to the damage output vs what arsenal does. Sad truth is many simply don’t know how to play the classes then complain.

              • skillpause

                takes a bit? Its definetly in the top 3 hardest specs in the game. Arsenal is 3rd hardest from the bottom maybe.

              • Ken Hamlin

                Let’s see now, arsenal is instant and the easiest of all rotations. It takes time before it’s at its peak for damage output. So again, people need to learn all classes before they go complaining, which is what PvP is good for. If you actually read the article it even states where this change is coming from. Like it, don’t like it, I don’t care, BW will be making the changes no matter. PvP cries, they come running with the tissues.

              • skillpause

                I think you misunderstood my comment, I was saying Arsenal is in the top 3 easiest classes in the game. Compared to it, IO doesn’t take a ‘bit’ to outperform arsenal. It takes a lot of learning. Thats why IO shouldnt be nerfed. If anything, the heat management should be a bit easier, because as of right now, its a single target spec that punishes target switching. 1 interrupt from a knockback can throw you rotation off.

              • Ken Hamlin

                My apologies, I did misunderstand your comment. In all fairness, it’s PvP that’s raised a ruckus over this. Make PvP have a set dps, heals and tank #’s. A buff for some, debuff for others. Cheers

              • skillpause

                Guild wars 2 seperated each specs damage output in pve and pvp. And it works like a charm.

              • Jaek

                It’s definitely not.

              • skillpause

                Then tell me what other spec needs as much attention on rotation, energy management as IO, if you dont use TSO exactly where you need to use it, you overheat, if you use vent heat anywhere else than where you need to use it, the alacrity boosts throws off your magshot procs. IO is one of the most unforgiving specs and its a single target spec that punishes target switching, so tell me, what spec is harder than IO right now?

              • Jaek

                In terms of OPTIMAL play, lethality/deception/anni/carnage I’d argue are all more difficult than IO.

                I’ll reason it all out here.

                1. Deception:

                Low skill floor, but a HIGH skill ceiling. It’s the only spec which actually has in-built RNG and requires on-going decision making in SWTOR.

                2. Carnage:

                Obviously harder than IO, especially when trying to play at optimal levels. It’s simply faster, and running a Radley-Walter’s rotation leaves even less room for error than IO.

                3. Anni:

                Anni is hard for the same reason IO is hard (barring the energy management), but is melee.

                4. Lethality:

                Same as anni. Easier rotation/priority list, however it’s somewhat counterintuitive (whereas IO is very very intuitive/prescriptive). Melee

              • skillpause

                Deception is the only spec that requires on-going decision making? IO’s general rotation has 4 choices after unload.

                Electro net if you have supercharged gas, thermal detonator if your heat is below 10(or you can decide to risk it and it could work out), missile blast if its procced from volatile if target is under 30% if your heat is below 20 after unload.
                You have to pay attention to supercharge,and your heat at all times.

                And thats just the general rotation, then comes heat ramping. I have anni’s in my guild and they don’t seems to have a hard time managing energy.
                Lethality I agree, easier rotation but how many skilled operatives do you see running around as dps? Not too many, IOs? Same, maybe 1-2 out of 500 mercs.
                And all those specs have a priority system attached to them afaik.
                IO doesn’t.
                No spec you listed punished target switching as much as IO.
                A single interrupt from a knockback can throw your whole rotation off because if unload’s raised CD after 4.0
                Since the 4.0 nerf Arsenal was virtually the better spec in every single fight on merc.
                While deception, Carnage, Annihilation are all viable specs in raids.
                Lethality not as much

              • Jaek

                Deception has only been ‘viable’ since 5.0. IO has been viable since 4.0.

                Yes IO is punished more with stop starts, I agree, same with target swapping. But it doesn’t actually use a priority system apart from a couple of GCDs per cycle, by and large it’s very inflexible.

                Deception is basically 100% priority list since it CANNOT be prescriptive, its main ability is literally given off of RNG.

                Like I said, optimal play rankings only. Once you know your rotation etc. IO is basically brain dead. Too much heat? Just substitute rapid shots in.

                Deception requires ongoing decision making throughout the entire rotation, almost every GCD, to keep it up there. Look at my updated Dulfy guide (linked in comments) to see the sheer extent of factors. You have to track 3 separate internal cooldowns, watch Relic procs to decide when to delay and not delay Maul, decide when to delay and not to delay Discharge, etc. It’s also melee, which is punished heaps in SWTOR (though less so in 5.0).

                What I said wasn’t a question of viability/difficulty to learn; merely difficulty to play at the 0.000001% level.

              • skillpause

                IO has been not viable since 4.0 actually. When the nerf hammer came down on it. Come 4.0, Arsenal was the better spec in virtually every fight.
                IO has actually been viable BEFORE 4.0.

                And priority systems are actually easier than fixed rotations, to me at atleast.
                As there are very few fights with a 100% uptime, and most of the time even if it is. You will get multiple knockbacks that could interrupt your unload or throw off your magshot procs.

                substituteing rapidshots in not only will lower your dps by the thousands, it will also fuck up your magshot procs, which is basically your highest dmg ability which also vents your heat when procs.
                So your resource management gets even harder.

                And while RNG based priority systems can be harder, it shouldn’t be in the game as RNG doesn’t promote skill.

                And both assassin specs are getting buffed come 5.3
                While according to rumor they also plan to nerf IO.
                Which doesn’t deserve a nerf at all.
                I wouldn’t mind a bit lower dummy dps, if they made target switching and heat management easier.
                But as of now, looking at parsely. There are very few bosses where IO reaches its potential dps. if there is any at all.
                And what’s the point of nerfing a class that almost nobody plays?

              • Jaek

                Okay several things you mentioned. Not really interested in an argument but got to clarify.

                1. there are several fill gcds per cycle in IO which can be power shot or rapid shots, it doesn’t really matter which. Rapid shot in those to manage heat, you can sacrifice maybe 400-500 DPS and literally never overheat ever, just use rapid shot instead of every powershot except the one powershot needed to proc Mag shot

                2. If you think IO wasn’t viable in 4.0, you have a warped view of i. what viability constitutes; and/or ii. how to play io.

                If you want to talk about VIABLE, look at Hatred or Pyro PT in 5.0, or Deception/Concealment in 4.0. Those specs barely, BARELY broke viability and even me bringing my main spec to Brontes NiM caused a bit of a ruckus in my server’s end game community.

                Arsenal did comparable damage with a low skill floor, it did not mean IO was not viable, just that it was the harder option.

                IO worked in plenty of fights, was vastly superior to Arsenal in several, and could be made to work if you could play the spec properly.

                3. Hatred has received TINY (and extremely deserved) buffs in 5.3, Deception is receiving none (not an issue, Deception is very well balanced atm).

                4. Priority systems are easier than strict rotations in the sense that they are more accommodating for fuck ups. So, if you are a weaker player, they are easier. Yet, the stronger a player you are, the less your uptime will be fucked (e.g. Veldix pulling 6.7k IO DPS on Revan CORE in 4.0) by mechanics. Thus, if fuck ups aren’t a particular issue, priority systems become substantially harder than strict rotations for the 0.0001% of quality players left in SWTOR. This is because, when those priority lists become complicated, the player is not going to merely scroll through a flowchart (for Deception) but weigh up literally risk/probabilities of proccing passives, while tracking multiple invisible cooldowns, as well as moment to moment buffs/relic activations. It requires substantial more raid awareness as one cannot default to a wrote playstyle.

                5. IO is extremely viable atm for NiM. People don’t play it not because it is BAD, but because Arsenal is passable and easy af, and deserved nerfs.

              • skillpause

                I dont think you ever played IO.
                First of all there is only 2 fill gcds which can be rapid shots, and those are in the general rotation, you can do rapid shots instead of EN/TD/MB and you DO rapid shots at the end of the general rotation before mag shots.
                So there is only 1 gcd which can be rapid shots to not delay mag shot procs.
                And in the general rotation there are 2 PS that proc MS.
                If you do not believe me that IO has nothing over Arsenal since 4.0 maybe you should read the 4.0 Merc dps DULFY guide that says the same as me.

                For priority systems being harder than static rotations I could just say how hard Arsenal is compared to IO then.

              • Jaek

                Don’t straw man me. Arsenal has a priority system but it’s simple af.

                Just read my Deception guide (comment section for updated version)

            • Ry

              A ‘good’ raider plays the entire class, not just a spec. Don’t expect every fight to be IO friendly or every fight to be Arsenal friendly. When you run in the NiM level, you have to keep up with both dps specs and sometimes even the healing spec. If you find a boss IO unfriendly, switch to Arsenal and vice versa.

              • Durr

                I am running NiM levels since 3.0 and Ive been playing IO on bosses that are not very IO friendly back when Arsenal was absolute trash. So please don’t lecture me on how a “good raider” should play merc, tyvm.

              • Ry

                I’ve been doing NiM raiding from 2.0 before you were able to faceroll NiM raids in 3.0 being 10 levels above operation…so please. If you were a ‘good raider’ than you wouldn’t be bitching about something as trivial as IO being unfriendly on certain bosses. Like I said…. learn to swap specs if something is unfriendly.

                Plus IO has been like in the top 3-4 parses ALWAYS.

            • De-ranker

              You’re incorrect, it’s nowhere close to an underdog, it’s a top tier spec. The only unviable specs are pyrotech powertech and lethality operative.

              • skillpause

                “top tier spec” how many IOs do you see on a daily basis? I’ll answer, 0

        • De-ranker

          Are you high? IO does better than Arsenal in pvp when you get the heat management down.

          • Durr

            “IO does better than Arsenal in pvp”

            No, it doesn’t.

      • Yallida

        Finally

    • Yallida

      I would say that they shouldn’t touch IO…
      True it’s doing hell good dmg but… It’s way much harder to achieve that than Arsenal…

  • Guest

    I guess they don’t want us Mercs to be able to solo Shae Vizla anymore after our PUG wipes themselves.

    • Yallida

      It’s about time… Time comes when u gonna use more than just 5 buttons…

      • De-ranker

        No, they’ll still be using 5 buttons, they just won’t be pulling top dps with those 5 buttons anymore πŸ˜‚

        • Yallida

          Now you just ruin my world mister πŸ˜‰πŸ˜‚

  • Jonathan Parker

    I’m really not a fan of ignoring the actual changes everyone wants regarding the DCDs, and just nerfing the damage of our most useful ability pretty hard.

  • Fortissimus

    any chance of a pvp map where everyone can 1-shot each other regardless of armor, class, or ability? that would be one very challenging and competitive pvp match almost always…

    • Alivan

      yes, that’s Battlefront for you

  • Justin

    People want the DCD’s nerfed but they aren’t really for the DPS specs, they were given to the Merc/Mando for the healing spec so they can’t be exploded easily like in the past. Those DCD’s are necessary for Merc/Mando healing with classes putting out such high burst. Pre 5.0 a Merc healer would stand no chance being focused by two Fury Mara’s. You have to look at all three specs to understand the full picture. So they can’t wreck the DCD’s much so they are lowering the DPS. The main problem with SWTOR is there’s such a small percentage of players that actually know how to play their classes so you get all these cry babies calling for nerfs to other classes because they believe they are so “Over Powered” getting their asses kicked all the time by them. Look at Operative, that class has never been the same since the first nerf in 1.0 time. Also, people complain about Merc/Mando right now but the class that if played right and can wreck any other class being played with equal skill level are Snipers. Snipers have an absolute insane amount of DCD’s. 4 shields, 2 rolls, 3 stack of shields that can be reset every 6 secs, heals in cover, heals on roll, heals with ballistic shield, class is insane. I didn’t even list everything they can do for DCD’s lol. The class I think that has the most right to complain are the Powertechs and Vanguards. They are a melee class made of glass, you pretty much have to have a pocket healer and guard in WZ’s to live any amount of time with them and do decent with them. Operatives have no chance to do the sustained damage as ANY other class unless you are exceptional with them and the conditions are just right and even then you wont hit 6500+ DPS in a WZ with them ever. Mara’s, Snipers, Mercs, Sorcs and in some cases Jugs can pull 6k plus. Ive gotten 6400 on my Sorc playing lighting (Keeping everyone dotted and hitting lots of AoE), 6500 on my Merc playing I/O, 7k on my Mara as Anni but don’t come anywhere close to that as an operative.

    • De-ranker

      Been waiting so long for an operative buff that I forgot I was nerfed

      • Davrel Kex

        Oh stop, Operatives were designed for harassment, node-capping/defending, and 1v1’s and they have been kings of that aspect of pvp for a few years now.

  • Yallida

    Well… If all of you would consider fact that Arsenal Merc were overpreform in terms od DPS sience 3.0 right now you are taken into the line finally…

  • Yallida

    And one more thing… Stop crying about PvP performance… They say clearly first line is tune DPS and HPS… So changes to utilities will come in second line… So in the other words… Another Nerf for mercs is on the way… 😁

  • Robin Darcourt

    “U play lightning sorc? even glitched, your class is not good for nim content, u need to go arsenal merc” lmao kek

  • Nananananananana Batman

    Good. The class is overperforming in literally every part of the game. In reg PvP matches you get 9/16 people playing Merc/Commando and in operations at least 4/8 people in my experience are Merc/Commando in some form or another. Arsenal should not be this good. Burst specs should not be this good. Sustained specs should do higher damage in the long run, burst specs should hit hard within certain points of their rotation and then peter out a bit leading to less DPS in the long run. That’s the way Lightning and Marksmanship are, that’s also the way Carnage needs to be brought into line. Especially for a spec as easy to play as Arsenal is where you have a 6 button rotation, and one of those buttons is on a fairly long cooldown (Net). It’s a braindead spec that needed a nerf.

    Another thing they need to look at is the Merc DCD that they added in. Tuning the burst DPS is fine, but that DCD is also insanely powerful as well. It’s always bugged me that the DPS/Healer class of the Bounty Hunter/Trooper has a better stock of DCD’s than the Tank side of Bounty Hunter/Trooper. Powertech and Vanguard needs something kind of desperately come 6.0.

    • Houston Neal Kirby

      Please forgive me!! What is DCD?

      • John Kosto

        Defensive CoolDowns. All the abilities that help a class survive a fight, and in the case of DPS Commands/Mercs, while also doing a tremendous amount of DPS. Forget about healers, they are almost immortal if a player knows what they are doing.

        I personally think that the proposed changes will reduce DPS way too much. I am against these changes. And nerfing in general I guess, just buff other classes.

        • Nananananananana Batman

          I’d typically agree with you, but I also know that’s the way it can’t be and shouldn’t be done. The problem with buffing everything up is that time to kill is already really really low in PvP, and this is made even more evident when it comes to burst classes that can chunk people down for half of their HP in a few moves. It’s why AP/Tactics was nerfed for PT/Vanguard, because it was dealing substantially more damage than it should have. It’s why Carnage/Combat needs to be nerfed down as well, because once BH/Commando get nerfed all everybody is going to do is move on to playing a Mara/Sent.

          Some people will be like, “lol, PvP. Who gives a fuck. Bunch’a whiners and cunts.” In some respects they can be right, but here they aren’t. PvE and PvP are both different sides of the same coin in this game. What happens in one affects the other, and balance changes need to take both into account. In an ideal world PvE and PvP would both have different balance stats but that would also needlessly over-complicate the game. It has to be done. It’s either nerf the stuff that’s god tier or kill an entire game mode.

          • Invalid

            Just because people are playing merc and globall you doesnt mean the dmg needs to be nerfed. You’re def frustrated for pvp. Insted of that,maybe you should learn to play your class. If a mara globals you in a few secs is because you suck. Carnage mara is hard to play. Its overperforming cause beastfury’s clipping rotation. If you dont clip, dps is very low. Sniper mm in pve and sorc lightning without the bug is a joke. So again frustrated pvpers like you cry cause they die inated of learning the class and all pve suffer. Everytime its the same. Instead of listening to the good pvpers and work from that they do this shit. GG bio and gg nananana noob

            • De-ranker

              You are correct, the damage needs to be nerfed because any noob can pull top dps with one hand while wearing a blindfold.

            • Davrel Kex

              You have no idea what you’re talking about. I’ve been playing merc since 2013 and I’ve seen it’s ups and downs. Right now, it’s a fucking joke. There is absolutely nothing besides another arsenal merc or maybe a mm sniper that has a chance against me in a one on one scenario. I have just too many ways to hinder you, too many ways to protect myself, and I can pump out hilarious damage all the while. The only time I go through my full set of DCD’s is if 2-3 people are on me, and even then I can pretty much guarantee I WILL kill at least one, maybe two of you. I love the class, but it is *way* too powerful for pvp right now. It has zero counters or weaknesses.

              • Invalid

                its not the dmg that needs to be nerfed. Its the dcd’s. You can stand still and dummy dps. Utilities need to be nerfed.
                And cause you play merc since 2013 i give that you good at it. But how many are good at playing merc? Most people rolled merc cause of insane dcd’s.
                If 3 good players are on you(if they know their class) you dont kill 2, maybe you dont even kill 1. Regular wz’s are full of idiots. So again its a big discussion about pvp: what lvl of skill are you and what’s your opponents lvl, whats your gear, what is the skill of your teammates.
                So again, the dmg is in a good place, the utilities you got its the main issue.

        • hulkette

          Yep, thx to all the Cry Baby that cannot play, it ll be harder for me and my guild to fall nightmare (we have max 2 mercs dps in the groupe and those mercs were playing the game since begining not just since the up of DCD)..

          It was Ok to get a nerf on the dcd (as you said, it s even better to up other classes), but why nerf our dps….???

          • Yallida

            Maybe because it’s to easy to achieve high dps… Maybe because it was overtuned since 3.0. It’s the only spec that don’t need any effort to do almost the highest dmg in all ranged classes and have way too many selfheals… And finally 5 buttons specs it’s way to easy to play in every single one aspect of this game…

            • Saturnin

              Maybe 7 binds are a challenge for you. You sweat by playing. The only real advantage for a merc is his mobility. A mobility that the sniper does not have. So stop yelling at the rape, before the up, no one complained of the merc.

              • Yallida

                LoL… I’m not yelling… I’m probably one of happiest people in the world. Finally after 3.0 and 4.0 Merc will get dmg Nerf… Because since Shadow of Revan and Knights of the Fallen Empire mercs was constantly buffed. Every class lose their critical damage bonus but not mercs. Even now mercs won’t lose it… It only be nerf by 15% but finally their will be nerfed and put into the line with other ranged classes.

          • Ry

            I think this kind of proves the point of why mercs needed nerf…. In most progression team, you have mercs taking up 1-2 of the dps slots. Leaving 7 other classes having to fight over 2 spots (one of which usually goes to a sniper). You will almost never see 2 assassins/2 juggs/2 PT/2 Operatives/2 Sorcs on one progression team.

            Arsenal is a ranged burst class that outperforms it’s counterpart melee dps Powertech AND has better defensive cooldowns AND can self heal.

            It’s performance should be in line with Lightning Sorc and Marksman Sniper (both of which needs to be buffed a bit).

    • gua543
    • Saturnin

      In reg PvP matches ? Do you have statistics on how many mercs are playing on your server? A hard work that requires to play all the time … I see few mercs in the top dps. Maybe you’re playing a secret class that requires more than 300 binds … Simulator of line pilot on swtor, I say bravo … With your 9 binds, your brain must bleed … Can you also spit on the scrapper Scoundrel and the powertech prototype ? You cry just for the dcds, the people rage not to have this facility to easily kill a merc …

  • Arvolenn

    rip mercs but only laughing till they show how badly my sniper is gonna get by a sledgehammer πŸ™ and i know itll be pretty bad

  • Spc

    So now commandos will be worst class to play, good job bioware πŸ™‚
    People will adapt and switch to other classes and forget commandos.

    • Leth

      They are still playable you fucking retarded jew.

      • Lol have you ever play commando on Master op’s? WiTh this nerf commando will be useless in MM ops. There are Never on top dps atm. YOU are THE retard mate.

        • Corpsewalker

          If I still play sorc and pull off enough damage in both DPS specs to meet and surpass requirements, and you cannot meet the mark after this comparatively tiny nerf, then you probably want to rethink NiM raiding……

          • skillpause

            “tiny nerf”, on paper, this is the biggest nerf in the game in a long time

        • Nihilus

          Looking back at this, it’s absolutely true. The forums are now full with people providing actual evidence that this is the case. DPS checks are impossible or nearly unmanageable even with perfect execution and gear in some cases. Parse stats show that a handful of specs, including Arsenal now do less damage than the bare minimum to comfortably handle Op mechanics at higher difficulties. Arsenal is factually at the bottom of the DPS chart. So that means that either, A: It wasn’t overpowered before and this small nerf proves it; B: The nerfs are worse than some acknowledge or C: Bioware is so bad at balancing that they managed to turn one of the best specs into the worst with one single balancing update.

      • Spc

        Yep, they will be useless especially in MM ops.

      • Durr

        You are a fucking scum.

      • TheCulprit

        how’d you know he was jewish?

  • Sotos

    They could just adjust survivability and reflect and instead of that they just burie the class. Gg bw

  • AdjeYo

    I get that Arsenal needed some nerfing. Especially the surge bonus nerf makes sense to me. But to remove the 10% damage bonus on Blazing Bolts AND nerfing its damage output seems a bit much to me. I mean Blazing Bolts accounts for like 35% of a Mercs total DPS on a dummy parse.

    • EyesOfGehenna .

      You say you don’t get the double nerf and yet you explain perfectly fine why it needed to be nerfed…

      • AdjeYo

        I’m saying it’s going overboard to remove a 10% damage bonus that’ll always be up when you use the ability and nerfing its damage might be going overboard a bit. It’s not like Arsenal’s DPS is so high that it’s a big problem. Sure it should be nerfed a bit to bring it more in line to where it should be, but it’s mostly its burst and defensive capabilities that should be looked at.

        • EyesOfGehenna .

          Considering what they wrote about class balances in general it seemed clear their plan was to bring down overall DPS. They said they want the ranged burst dps down to -5% of target DPS. If the DPS is in the plus and I’d say it is overperforming, then you need to take some strong measures to bring the overall DPS down that much. So you need to nerf a major skill and as you said BB counts for 35% of your total damage…so there’s the prime nerfing target. Lightning and Marksmanship are the other ones in the same category but those are already in the minus so if anything they’ll get a small buff I’d think.

          Virulence should be interesting for nerfing purposes.

  • Alex Crawford

    Still waiting on buffs for all my operative specs

  • De-ranker

    Damn it… guess I can’t hit for 50k reflecting heatseekers on my operative anymore

  • mike2

    Why are they just slowly killing the game? I mean i still want to play but they are pissing all over every class at this point

    • Noomi

      Its all thanks to the whiney PvPers. Because they can’t play the game they want they demand Bioware screws over everyone.

  • Bogdan Paunescu

    Pff, Arsenal Merc has been my main since before SoR. Only ranged dps spec I like. GG, time to go back to lightning sorc(lol)

    • gua543

      Oh boohoo, my 5 buttons class is not ridiculously OP anymore. Git gud, scrub.

      • Fallen

        Nothing like a troll in the know

      • Bogdan Paunescu

        I’m good enough to play this game for fun. There are plenty of challenges in real life that are more important.

        • gua543

          So what do you care that your class gets a nerf then? Playing for fun means not going above the difficulty of sm ops and you can enter with whatever you want there.

          • HMHero

            ^fun police

          • Bogdan Paunescu

            Fun for me is doing NiMs and the pvp daily. Not fun is getting the speed runs and deathless achievements πŸ™‚

    • Noomi

      You can thank the PvP whiners for this.

  • Saturnin

    I understand the nerf of dcd. But for damage, I find it ridiculous. It is Bioware who bows against the pressure of players who scream their despair in a mmorpg that does not suit them. Instead of nerf unnecessarily why not propose another cycle of dps with new spells? I propose a petition for a more complex new cycle. You have to save Merc Ryan. I’m ashamed to be as useless as the sorcerer. Hopefully my brain holds the shock for 7 binds. Fotm becomes a shitty class. Thank you mourners

  • John Doe

    Wow that’s a real good reason to come back πŸ™‚ Considering how broken Mercs have been this expansion so far πŸ™‚ Needs more nerfs though !

  • Fuzzypaw

    Well damn, I liked playing the OP commando. I didn’t have to gear up as much to keep up with the other guys, and it was super easy to me. We’ll see how this all plays out.

  • Alivan

    GJ, only took you since Nov 2016.

  • Noomi

    Thanks PvP whiners for ruining our gameplay

    • lol class balance

      pve’ers have plenty of options to pve with.
      pvp has been plagued by mando/merc since 5.0 to a level you clearly can’t imagine, understand or comprehend.
      this needed to be done.
      pve gets everything. the entire gearing structure for pvp got wiped out for the sake of pve scrubs. and here you are crying about a small but much needed nerf to a ridiculously fotm class.

      • Calure

        The PvP gearing structure actually made it easier for PvE players to get gear before they went into PvE. It actually affected PvE players as well; especially the more casual ones. “Having options to pve with” is not really a reason to nerf a class in PvE as well as PvP. I could just as well say you could just roll a Merc instead of complaining about not being as OP as a Merc.

        They need to separate PvP and PvE when it comes to buffs/nerfs if they want either side to survive.

  • Patryk Jesionek

    Now nerf Operative/Scoundrel self-healing in DPS spec

  • Jawa Jay

    PvP’ers are the pathetic scum of the game. They are mostly jobless fat Β£ucks living off the government and have no life’s no jobs live in their parents basements or low income community housing with others just like them and the only women they see are their mom’s when they bring them more mountain dew, spray cheese, funions, and whatever junk food they live off of to the basement or women on port sites. They were the bullies in school who turned into obese failures later in life and now get fun of so when they get beat by another class they cry for a nerf.

  • Chakalenbogen

    Not happy with the changes at all.. that’s nerfing the Merc WAY TOO MUCH!

Back to Top