SWTOR Bioware Explains Patch 5.4a Hiccup

Bioware released a statement regarding today’s patch hiccup.

Game Update 5.4a | 08.31.2017, 11:56 PM
Hey everyone,

I want to start by apologizing for the unexpected and prolonged downtime today. This isn’t something we ever want to happen, but when it does, we take it seriously and do everything we can to resolve the issue or issues. We are adding additional processes to try and prevent this particular situation from happening again. Here’s essentially what took place today and what’s behind the long downtime:

What happened? Wasn’t this tested?
The issues we encountered were fairly complex, and having more than one just made things complicated. The first problem was the patch for our BitRaider and SSN launchers were inconsistent and ended up causing different issues after we took the servers out of maintenance. As a result, some of you actually received a game patch, while others didn’t get anything. You’d think we would catch that in our normal tests, but it was an oversight in our process which we have since corrected. The big issue was part of the patch that should have been included was missing data, so it was pulling information from 5.4 instead of 5.4a. The net result was a variety of issues – including some of the patch changes didn’t seem like they were deployed.

Although we extensively test all of our updates at all stages of the process, the missing parts just caused enough oddball problems, we had to take the game down again to figure out what was going on. In reality, had I been a little more patient, we would have caught the issues beforehand, yet the long downtime would not have been avoided. In addition, not everything we had planned to fix is actually included. For example, we have resolved the exploit with the Umbara Stronghold, but it didn’t make it in the 5.4a patch. Therefore, we have our normal infrastructure maintenance planned for next Wednesday, so our current plan is to deploy the change at that time. We implore you to not participate in this exploit as we don’t want any further disruptions in your game play.

Players lost time today, especially in the EU, is anything being done?
Losing playtime is always painful, especially when there is a “double” event running and Dailies awarding crazy high CXP. I’m kicking around a variety of options with the team, as we want to apologize and reward your patience. Some of you have asked to have our Double XP/CXP event extended and others have asked us to keep the current CXP amounts for the Daily Areas. Others have asked for different compensation, and we’re looking at all options as the last couple weeks have been tough on all of us. We’ll lock down what exactly we’re doing and let you know in the coming days.

Again, thank you all for your patience today.

–Keith-

  • AbnerDoon

    The sad thing is they didn’t even patch the exploit. It still exists until the regular patch next Tuesday.

    You can bet they will be crossing their fingers and hoping for a patch that takes. I hope they decide to extend the bonus XP/CXP a week.

    • Vanguard

      They’ll probably extend it, I’d be a bit surprised if they took a different route

      • AbnerDoon

        They misread the situation and player base fairly often.

        Tomorrow free taunlings for all! :p

        • ConcernedGuest

          What good is a taunling?
          I need something that gives me an edge in the game. No usless crap.
          Give me a pet that can do some damage, or healing or something else … that can be used in a FP or operation.
          Give me some gear that is leveling on its own, always haveing HM stats with 6.xx, 7.xx,
          That would be ok

          • That’s exactly why they’ll give you a taunling.

  • Vincent van der Laan

    for sub players they should be compensated by extra game time to their sub like 7 days free

    • Lithari

      I totally agree, though this opinion has nothing to do with the fact that i have 4 days left on my subscription.

    • Ezechiel Darken

      On what basis? You already agreed to not being compensated by playing this game, read the rules.

      • DerpDude

        On the basis of showing respect to your paying customers when you are the one mucking things up. (read you as EA)
        It’s “101” in customer service.

        • Ezechiel Darken

          They are far beyond the point of showing respect, mate.

          • DerpDude

            I know…EA completely missed that memo and doesn’t give a shit about their customers.

    • Zasz

      Additional game time always sound unproportional. I would be ok with ingame stuff that helps with progress of any kind. Double XP is always a good thing for the overwhelming majority. A pet isnt a reward. Only a small group of players are interested in more pets even if its just like the last, just labeled different. Im not one of those.

  • CRAZYMARY

    Whats si the exploid?

    • Michael

      The room to buy the umbara SH requires 60 Umbara comms to enter. Some1 figured out that a flagship summons will get you in there. Bypassing the 60 comms. They came out early on this being an exploit so don’t do it

  • Michael

    Worst run game. I had to argue with customer service for a 1/2 hour today to freeze my account.

    • Darth Ji’inx

      What does Customer Service have to do with how the game is run?

  • Lol

    They should have killed this Bitraider crap years ago. It’s only causing problems.

    • Zasz

      I dont get why they still use it. Did they ever justify it?

      • I’d venture a guess that converting to something else would cause even more problems (just in the transition) which would piss off the fanbase just as well.

  • Ezechiel Darken

    No one gives a crap about their new SH, people are already frustrated with only one FP that takes 15 minutes to complete even on Master Mode. It’d be okay if they’d just quickly add it to the game, instead they needed extra 48h to test it and it’s still not working properly as even GTX 1080 stutters on train part.
    They took 10 hours of gametime away from us and still didn’t fix a thing. I am trying to find some positive things about last night maintenance but I can’t. Last few months were fubar’ed by Bioware really hard, they didn’t even bother with making new weapons for ranked season, they just reskinned Tempted Apprentice lightsabers. This game is going downhill.
    Why am I playing it, salty fanbois? Because it’s Star Wars MMO. Give me any MMO in Star Wars universe and I am gone from SWTOR for good, even when it’d be renewed SWG.

    • Threjyan

      can u link me, a video or tell me anyone that makes that FP in 15m (master mode)? i am really looking forward to see it.

      really impressive

    • Mattador

      SWG Legends has over a thousand people and the devs are working on new content that wasn’t in the game originally.

  • DerpDude

    Rewards ? Like what ? Another recolored “R2” pet and a 10% discount on selected Cancer Market items which none buys ?

    • Rance

      Sssh, they are dumb enough to take that comment as what the player base has been waiting for all these years.

      • DerpDude

        o.O
        ….sorry, I’ll “Zip my Lip”.

  • Fred Garvin
  • d*ü

    And still, they keep using BitRaider.
    Everybody get’s what he deserves.

    • UnkPunk

      Step 1: Install Swtor launcher.
      Step 2: Edit the config file and remove the required lines of text.
      Step 3: delete bitraider folder
      Step 4: Enjoy not having slow updates.

      That’s the first thing I always do when redownloading swtor. Bitraider is the worst thing they ever added…

  • Amodin

    They can’t even fix two year old bugs, nothing new here. Disney and EA should be embarrassed how this game has been done. It really was a great game at one time.

    • Mattador

      It’s always been kinda ‘meh’ from day one if you ask me.

      • This is true. Also, there is way more stability and direction under Disney than there would be under LucasArts (which is obvious if you know about the issues that basically led to LucasArts quitting game development).

        • Jep Fareborn

          Uhhh INFINITY much??? Derp!

          • Isla Avery

            The only thing derpy is using the word derp unless you’re 12.

            https://www.google.com/amp/kotaku.com/how-lucasarts-fell-apart-1401731043/amp

            SWTOR would have been a bigger shitshow under LucasArts, if they could have managed to hold it together and remain focused long enough to deliver.

            Infinity isn’t as bad as LucasArts’ project graveyard, IMO. But you do you, little guy.

            • Jep Fareborn

      • Bakgrind

        So true. And if it wasn’t for it having the Star Wars label it would of shut down long ago.

        • MKDAWUSS

          See also: SWG

          • Shawn Hargrave

            swg emus are still around

      • John Kosto

        Nope, it used to be a great game. With tons of content and interesting stories, missions, and events.

        • Mattador

          Far as I can tell, that content is still in the game.

          • John Kosto

            Yeah, that awesome content is still in the game, and we have played it 1000 times, that’s exactly the problem.

            It might be “meh” for you, but hey, that’s just your opinion…man…

            • Mattador

              Same can be said for the thought that it was great, and that it sucks now. But people talk about it like it’s fact, so I do the same, I guess.

              • Rance

                Tbh vanilla Swtor is seen by most of the player base like the golden age of the game, even us who are labelled here as trolls for constantly criticizing the game praise it.

              • Paulo Gomes

                Oricon.

                THAT’S the pinnacle of this game, that phase right then and there. It don’t get better than that. It’s been downhill ever since. Slowly downhill at first, and then it picks up speed during the KotFE/KotET phase. And it still hasn’t slowed down, imho.

              • Shawn Hargrave

                ilum at the get go when 100s of people were fighting in molasses at a whole 1 1/2 frames per second was it for me i dont give a shit about instanced pvp and they just threw in the towel on open world pvp after that then i hear james ohlen saying if theres more then 15 people in one area the area cant handle the load. Why i love swg emus and having those huge battles in restuss and theed and the lag isnt that bad either

              • Rob

                Hey! You stole my pinnacle quote 😛

              • Paulo Gomes

                Well, it’s a good quote, and one I happen to agree with. Sue me. 🙂

            • Paulo Gomes

              That… And the fact that they keep coming up with strategies for us to play old content like it’s new, perpetuating the hamster wheel…

              • Shawn Hargrave

                you mean the whole piece mealing an operation over months isnt exciting to you? lol you know you want to fight over sized droid bosses over and over that they claim are “super weapons” lolz /smh

              • Paulo Gomes

                Exciting??? By the time all the bosses come out (8 months for TWO bosses) it will be old content as well! And I’m not even counting how many Ops other MMO’s are getting in the time span we are getting ONE phased Operation… I’m not even going to go there… looool…

              • Shawn Hargrave

                Haha

              • Fred Garvin

                Tell me about it.

                WoW: Legion patch 7.3 alone has more content than SWTOR has released over the last 3 years. Since they beginning of this year until now they’ve delivered 2 full raids (with another coming in the Fall), several dungeons, and new zones that are full of mounts, pets, and toys that are earned by playing the game; not buying gambling crates. Their short animated cutscenes also deliver more real story than all of KotFE and KotET’s teen family drama garbage that negated most of the story we had been playing from 2011-2015.

        • Rob

          I’ve said before numerous times that if you discovered SWToR tomorrow having never played it, it is a great game. There is a lot of content in there for a new player before you hit the brick wall of repetitiveness.

          My frustration like yours and many others’ comes from having been playing since launch, the lack of anything new of substance essentially forces me to not to play a game I enjoyed for a long time.

    • Mark Saunders

      Thing is when I go in to play, committed, I enjoy it. I think it’s still great game, but lacks newer content. I enjoy Kotet etc even if others didn’t. It’s also nice to see others on the dailies. I’d find it was just me on some of them. That’s frustrating.

    • Dr. Mike Wendell

      Two years? The screwed up Taris bonus series goes back much father than that.

  • Drivan

    They will compensate you with whatever costs them the least.
    500 Free cartel coins and extend the event by a couple days.

    • Rompe Himself

      Nah, they will just either extend some event or give some existing trash pet or speeder for free.

      • Ezechiel Darken

        I think they won’t even extend cxp event, which is sad. This double (c)xp event already brought many players back to game – around 250 people on fleet in general, in all instances at one time. I hope they won’t screw it up.

        • Rompe Himself

          I didn’t mean they would extend CXP event. I meant just any other upcoming recycled event.

  • Mark Saunders

    “keep the current CXP amounts for the Daily Areas.” This. the cartel coins would be nice but would be easily wasted. getting to tier 3 on alts would be better than a few coins for RNG items.

  • Eban

    The only headline I want to see is SWTOR Bioware Explains The State of SWTOR and why its so bad.

    • Rompe Himself

      The only headline I want to see is “EA shuts down and fires incompetent BW Austin team and brings SWTOR under the control of EA DICE/Criterion Games/Motive Studios for ongoing future development.”.

      • Bakgrind

        Well they can’t shut down Bioware/Austin just yet.They are to busy working on content for Anthem. And after that they will be working on the next Dragon Age game. They will still have that 3-5 man team working on SWTOR so never fear about that!

  • Ezechiel Darken

    “Enjoy a full week of double rewards: XP, Command XP, and much more!” By >much more< they mean extra valor, gg.

  • Paulo Gomes

    I just have to laugh. I really do. Thank the Force I’m not active in the game, or I might actually be pissed. As it turns out I’m just amused.

    Some people here might remember that I came out and criticised BW for postponing patch 5.4 in 24 hour windows, instead of postponing a week. My reasoning being that THAT way they would have enough time (hopefully) to suss out EVERYTHING that was wrong with the patch.

    They didn’t.

    And this is what we end up with.

    C’mon people. What will it take for you few that still have confidence in these guys to realise they are not able to cope with this game? It seems they can’t do ANYTHING right. And before the righteous come and teach me the lesson that “computer games have problems”… Yes, I know that. But this many problems???

    Every time I come here hoping for a glimmer of hope that might make me want to return to a game I once loved I’m greeted by this spectacle.

    C’mon BW. It’s REALLY getting embarrassing now. Yeah, we have better communication with Keith. Big deal. The gremlins, shenanigans, bugs, silly exploits that DEVS THAT PLAY THEIR OWN GAMES would find on the spot are the same. Or worse. Face it, you can’t cope with the Blizzards and Bethesdas of this world. You don’t have the chops.

    And never will.

    • Dr. Mike Wendell

      And yet they make millions and millions in profit.

      • Paulo Gomes

        Show me those “millions and millions in profit”. I look at EA’s yearly financial report every year it comes out. You prove me wrong. Show me where TOR is making millions.

        • Dr. Mike Wendell

          I get enough bigotry from BW and EA staff. If you’re going to reference a video, please make sure it’s got captioning on it.

          • Whitedragon

            no body likes a cry baby!

        • eckostylez

          http://investor.ea.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=712515-16-138
          “For the three months ended June 30, 2016 , digital Net Revenue was $689 million primarily driven by FIFA Ultimate Team , Madden Ultimate Team , and the Star Wars franchise”

          • Paulo Gomes

            *sigh*

            Yes, I know all about that. My question was rhetorical, since there simply is no DIRECT reference to “The Old Republic”.

            As always, EA don’t show the profits (or more likely, losses) associated with TOR.

            Net Revenue is too broad a classification. They put ALL their net revenue COMBINED.

            Even Star Wars franchise is too broad of a term to link DIRECTLY to TOR. They have “Galaxy of Heroes” and “Battlefront” too, don’t forget.

            To put it in simple terms, and just so that we understand what we are talking about:

            NOWHERE IN THE FINANCIAL REPORT IS “THE OLD REPUBLIC” REFERENCED IN INDIVIDUAL TERMS. As has been the case for EVERY other financial report I have consulted from previous years.

            • eckostylez

              The question was to show that SWTOR does not give EA “millions and millions”. They do not state specifics on any of their financial reports, that’s what all publicly traded companies do.

              http://investor.ea.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=712515-16-86

              “For the three months ended December 31, 2015 , service and other revenue was $445 million , primarily driven by FIFA Ultimate Team and Star Wars: The Old Republic.”

              If you really want to believe that FIFA Ultimate Team gave EA $444.x million in that period, be my guest. You can be as disingenuous as you’d like. This game would’ve shut down by then if that were even remotely true. It makes millions for EA and requires little upkeep for them in cost.

              This should be obvious if you can employ logical reasoning without letting your bias fuel your thoughts. Anything that has to be programmed is going to have bugs no matter what. Nobody’s code is perfect and QA is not going to catch every single kind of scenario where a bug may occur (or think of unit tests that can accommodate for every kind of plausible action). Even the software being used to run this website has been filled with bugs, exploits, security vulnerabilities, etc.

              People like you and Rompe complain about the smallest inconveniences over a game. You ignore the reality of the game development process. Do you act like this with everything you pay for? You are the “get me your manager” moms of the video game industry.

              • Paulo Gomes

                Rompe already made the financial points very accurately in his response.

                I am very aware of the difficulty of coding a game, and this game in particular. Perhaps even more so than you. This is part of what what I replied to Rob in another post:

                “But this company has been on a roller coaster of people coming in and out. Their main game coder quit some time ago (a year ago perhaps? If anyone can determine the exact date please do so). And as we all know, this game runs on a modified Hero Engine. Now, when a main coder leaves you can have one of two situations: either he was able/willing to delegate and share his work with the rest of the team, or not.”

                But that difficulty is PRECISELY why I think patch 5.4 should have been delayed for a week:

                “See, this is what I don’t get: why postpone in 24 hour windows? Why not come out and postpone it for a week? Sure, it would piss people a bit more than 24 hours. But it would piss them once only (hopefully). Takes the pressure off the guys that are solving and then testing this bug, and it’s a lot better than looking more incompetent every time you don’t meet the deadline.”

                As for logical reasoning… You tell me how a game that is at it’s lowest population point EVER is putting in those fabled millions you speak of. And here, I CAN prove that. It seems people are still unaware of this useful link to something that reflects the TRUE state of this game. You go on ahead, visit the site and spin it ANY way you want to mate. Go back, do a history of ANY server. On a scale of 0 to 6 NO SERVER IN THIS GAME AVERAGES MORE THAN 2. In fact, the MOST POPULATED SERVERS DON’T REALLY REACH 2 The less populated ones don’t even average ONE.

                http://swtordata.com/server_statuses

                Millions hey? Yeah right. I’ll just leave you with a graph for the server I used to play on, The Red Eclipse.

                “There are none so blind as those who WILL not see…”

                https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/346136e4249504d2886ddd3effc0754fe261b6d4588be1eca0fffcdae27aaee9.jpg

              • Rompe Himself

                Another saying that comes to mind when I read that fool fanboi drivel by eckostylez was “A Fool sees not the same tree a wise man sees”.

              • eckostylez

                When did anyone mention the game is bringing in more money than it did previously? Changing the goalposts much? If you don’t want to believe that this game brings in millions for EA, fine. You’re just being silly to think this game would still be around if it wasn’t.

                The link you provided is useless. There are no exact numbers there, nor is there any kind of legend to even get a realistic number from the averages. Also, just so we understand one another. This game never had “close to a hundred servers in the United States alone”. There weren’t even close to 100 worldwide (unless you want to count the separate service servers, which you don’t get to “choose” from, since they are parts of the main game server).

              • Paulo Gomes

                I can’t exactly recall the actual server numbers, I’ll give you that one. But I remember 78 servers at one point. Which point that was I cannot place correctly. But maybe it was separate service servers. I can’t say.

                What I do know is that I had queues to log in with that many servers. And there was no f2p model up. ALL subs. And an ESTIMATED number of 1.5 million plus players.

                There’s a very good reason for this game still being around. The fact that EA have the licensing for all games Star Wars. Considering that burying this game and making another one would be even more expensive, it’s better for EA to keep this one afloat with minimal staff, while cashing in on the OTHER SW titles they have.

              • eckostylez

                They would not operate a game at a loss. No company does that, especially one that is publicly traded. EA does not care about the whims of its player-base. It cares about it’s primary shareholders.

              • Rob

                ‘EA does not care about the whims of its player-base. It cares about it’s primary shareholders.’ Hard to disagree with this.

                This misguided logic however is why we are having this discussion. Surely it makes more business sense to make the best product you can and then reap the financial benefits? At no point can you ever deliberately make/keep something sub par and hope to succeed in the long term.

                We can surely all see that SWToR will be killed any day now, the moment it posts a loss it’s goodnight.

              • Paulo Gomes

                Hence the phased Operation. Hence the rush to go live with a broken patch. Hence the ridiculous “road maps” to assure us that the game is moving in the right direction.

                All the signs they are living on borrowed time. And cannot afford to slip down any further…

              • Rob

                I agree, but food for thought….

                A fair few years ago EA’s FIFA franchise was getting blown out of the water by their competition Pro Evolution Soccer (PES), however EA got their shit together and are currently dominating the market, despite in my opinion FIFA 17 being inferior to PES 17.

                Now I mention this as I believe it offers a small hope that EA could see the light of revive their interest in ToR and compete with WoW etc. You know I’ve no love for EA or BW and I’ve been fairly gloomy in my predictions for the future but thinking about the PES predicament EA had a while back is at least evidence that EA can turn things around.

                I thought this might be a ray of sunshine for you Paulo 🙂

              • Paulo Gomes

                Not just for me Rob… For everyone that still thinks this game has amazing unrealised potential…

              • Fred Garvin

                Why are you reposting yourself?

                You wanna talk about ignoring reality of the game dev process? You just described yourself and every other boot licker for this game that apparently doesn’t have to ability to see what nearly EVERY other MMO is delivering these days. SWTOR has the biggest IP and delivers the least content and the most problems with the content they do have.

              • Rompe Himself

                Not sure what small inconveniences you think I am complaining about when what I stated was the broader situation with SWTOR and the shit show that is BW Austin and Keith. I don’t care about this hiccup because it is not the first nor last we have seen in this game. They have had far worse ones so I am not surprised and when I heard of this, I simply shrugged my shoulders and thought “Typical”.

                True, I have never worked for a game developer (and I doubt nor have you) but I have worked for a software company that made software for large businesses and government/local councils here across Australia. And speaking from experience, I can say that the company I worked for, their QA process was far more strict then BW Austin who have left so many known bugs through. But sure, a game is more complex then some of the software I was part of. However, take your fanboi goggles off and look at the bigger picture if you have the courage.

                Some realities to digest:

                * “Nobody’s code is perfect and QA is not going to catch every single kind
                of scenario where a bug may occur (or think of unit tests that can
                accommodate for every kind of plausible action). Even the software being
                used to run this website has been filled with bugs, exploits, security
                vulnerabilities, etc.”

                Valid points indeed but while most companies do their BEST to find and iron out as many as possible, BW Austin on the other hand have become increasingly lazier and lazier with every patch. Compare past pre 4.0 patches vs. post 4.0 patches and see how there is a steady decline in quality of QA within this game to say nothing of what bugs are fixed. And truly there is no excuse in the world for this because even during testing on the PTS, players would report issues FOR BW Austin yet they don’t bother to fix them and let them go into live. I remember a certain past exploit was reported to BW Austin before it went live, then they let it go through and waited for players to find them before bringing down the ban hammer on them rather then you know, BW Austin having done their fucking job and fixed it before it went live as it was reported to them in the PTS. Even their day or two early access offer has become a glorified QA session for anyone who participates in it. That to me is incredibly lazy and irresponsible by BW Austin. With the company I worked for, besides the QA team and the Customer support team who backed them up when possible for further QA testing, We had select Councils we gave early test versions of our software to help further QA our product alongside our in house QA team and all the bugs found by these councils did NOT end up in the live version. Sure, some bugs of course still got through, but the one’s reported, did not. The difference? One company cares for the standards of the software they are delivering to their paying customers, the other (BW Austin) claim to, talk like they do but prove otherwise.

                * Consider that this game still wants players to pay a sub but look at the mediocre content they have delivered since 4.0. Compare the shit that was Keeping up with the Valkorians (KOTFE) to past content. Once upon a time, BW Austin cared what they put out. Now?? They cut corners wherever they can. Compare what other big mmo’s out there (WOW, FF, ESO, GW2, fuck even TSW) are delivering while BW Austin try to cut as many corners as possible by delivering:

                – Uprisings which are just cut sections of existing Ops and fp’s and calling it brand new.

                – A stronghold AND fp in the same content release………………….except the sh is just the fp stripped down while expecting subs to stay subbed for this farce.

                * SWTOR has the biggest IP in the world. This game should drown EA in money, much like SW Battlefront has done for them. But no, BW Austin, created specifically for SWTOR have gone to shit in the last few years and the game shows it. It is sad when lesser IP’s are able to retain bigger bases then a Star Wars one. Once upon a time, SWTOR was proudly mentioned in the EA stockholder reports. Now, it is ignored. Just look at the EA video released a while back advertising all the different products coming out and look how much play time was given to SWTOR vs the rest of the vid.

                Many many more points I can bring up but I would hope you get the point on this post plus my earlier posts at the top of this thread. Bottom line is simply this:

                Regardless how much money SWTOR makes, it is not going back into this game whatsoever and when you consider what this franchise can offer and by extension, this game, it is an outright travesty what BW Austin are delivering to paying customers while the rest of the MMO world laughs at this once great game that could have, SHOULD HAVE killed WOW. In the hands of a competent dev team, it would have.

              • eckostylez

                Why are you changing the discussion? SWTOR makes millions for EA, period. If it wasn’t, they would have shut down already (seen it already with games like TMO, Tabula Rasa, Saga of Heroes, etc). I

                You’re biggest complaints are what the game is now. That’s fine, I don’t disagree. EA knows that they can continue to make money off this game without have to provide anything significant in terms of content and without having to put any kind of majority of that money back into the game.

                Do not act like you are special because you played this game since launch (as have I, my UID on the forums is probably much lower than yours). I was there with the horrible December bugs.

                All your complaining is not going to accomplish anything. Some of your statements are just plain ignorant.

                “A fucking website is not hard to maintain ffs”. Yeah, I am sure it would be completely wise to hire a high school kid that can maintain PCI compliance.

              • Eban

                ”SWTOR makes millions for EA” your basing that off that from a report dated 2015?
                Well the game is a shadow of its former self so the profit they were making 2 years ago is vastly different from then to now.
                This is why when they do those finacial reports theres no sign on SWTORs name.
                Those servers and subs have changed a shit ton in 2 years.
                I seriously doubt its millions and millions of profit.
                Enough to keep it in the green but not worthy of mentioning.

              • eckostylez

                KOTFE had the highest subscriber count at any point in this game. They would not be wasting money to pay for employees to support this game if it was not giving them millions in profit. We saw the same thing with SWG, so I don’t know why everyone is so surprised.

              • Paulo Gomes

                That’s a lie, and something you cannot hope to prove. There are no numbers for subs published. EVER. ANYWHERE.

                Stick to facts, or this whole conversation is pointless.

              • eckostylez

                It’s literally in the prepared statements of the financial reports for that quarter. KOTFE saw the highest number of subscribers in this game’s history. But please, continue to be disingenuous in thinking that this game doesn’t make them millions. You haven’t provided one shred of evidence to back that up.

              • Paulo Gomes

                Exhibit A (and the only one you’ll ever need):

                http://swtordata.com/server_statuses

              • eckostylez

                Exactly how are you calculating anything from that. Those are just population indexes (guess what, this game has not had a ‘very heavy’ or ‘full’ server since 2013). You clearly no nothing when you think a game such as SWTOR would even have a “main game coder”. Do you know how things like scrum and agile work? Too bad, you’re not going to have the Star Wars MMO that you want. It’ll be another 2 years before EA kills SWTOR, and then probably another 2 after that before we another Star Wars MMO. And guess what, that one is going to have the same problems.

              • Eban

                KOTFE did have the highest.
                ‘Did have’ is the key words here.
                People left in droves cause it was so bad.
                And the employee’s you speak of, theres a skeleton crew working at Bioware Austin these days.
                Its common knowledge they have downsized the dev team.

          • Rompe Himself

            Lol, nice attempt at changing the facts to suit your argument. Paulo is still spot on.

            Let’s have a look at the full paragraph instead of cherry picking a sentence to validate your flimsy point,

            I quote from your very own link:

            Product Revenue

            For the three months ended June 30, 2016, product revenue was $684 million, primarily driven by FIFA 16, Star Wars Battlefront and Madden NFL 16. Product revenue decreased $59 million, or 8 percent, as compared to the three months ended June 30, 2015. This decrease was driven by a $264 million decrease primarily from the Dragon Age, Battlefield and FIFA franchises. This decrease was partially offset by a $205 million increase primarily from Star Wars Battlefront and the UFC franchise.

            Service and Other Revenue (Where you quoted from)

            For the three months ended June 30, 2016 , service and other revenue was $587 million , primarily driven by FIFA Ultimate Team and Need for Speed 2015. Service and other revenue for the three months ended June 30, 2016 increased $127 million , or 28 percent , as compared to the three months ended June 30, 2015 . This increase was driven by a $165 million increase primarily from Need for Speed 2015 , FIFA Ultimate Team and the Star Wars franchise. This increase was partially offset by a $38 million decrease primarily from The Simpsons Tapped Out and the Titanfall franchise.

            It isn’t SWTOR that is making EA happy. In fact SWTOR was not even mentioned whatsoever in that report from EA to it’s investors like it had been in previous years during the glory days of SWTOR. SW Battlefront is what is making EA happy in terms of money, not SWTOR. It is why they are making a sequel for Battlefront while SWTOR languishes with the mediocre dev team it has who have no imagination, drive or ability to make something of the game. They, like EA, have given up on SWTOR and now just in it to milk it til it dies a death this once great game, so full of promise, does not deserve.

            • eckostylez

              The question was to show that SWTOR does not give EA “millions and millions”. They do not state specifics on any of their financial reports, that’s what all publicly traded companies.

              http://investor.ea.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=712515-16-86

              “For the three months ended December 31, 2015 , service and other revenue was $445 million , primarily driven by FIFA Ultimate Team and Star Wars: The Old Republic.”

              If you really want to believe that FIFA Ultimate Team gives EA $444.x million in that period, sure go ahead. You can be as disingenuous as you’d like. This game would’ve shut down by then. It makes millions for EA and requires little upkeep for them in cost.

              • Rompe Himself

                Not to rain on your parade, but I think you would be shocked to see how popular the FIFA franchise actually is, especially in football loving countries.

              • Rob

                I live in the UK and my assumption without looking at the figures is that the FIFA franchise is probably EA’s most profitable venture. Mainly because of footballs worldwide popularity.

              • eckostylez

                So you believe that from the quote, FIFA made all the millions and SWTOR only made thousands? Sure, be as obtuse as you’d like.

              • Paulo Gomes

                Obtuse…

                Why I even bother is the real question I should be asking… But here goes:

                In Europe, football is big (that’s soccer for all you Americans). I mean REALLY big. I know. I live in Portugal, home to arguably the best player in the world today. I don’t really care about football, Formula 1 is my thing. But everybody in European countries goes crazy on football.

                What do you think? More people like Star Wars? Or football? Never-mind what you think, football wins by a large margin.

                My kids play FIFA Ultimate Team. They used to play TOR. They don’t anymore. They had subs (payed by your truly, of course).

                And FIFA UT is a multi-platform game. You can take your mobile, and get in with the action anytime, anywhere.

                TOR’s population is estimated to not reach a million players worldwide… And I’m being generous here.

                Take that into account, and it’s fairly obvious what game is making millions…

              • eckostylez

                OK, you’re right. From that financial report (which you said you read), FIFA made EA $444.x million and SWTOR did not make any millions.

              • gog

                Ok Paulo, time for some serious talk here, my homeboy Zlatan is the best player in the world, not that wimp Ronaldo…. 😉

              • Paulo Gomes

                I don’t know man… My wife knows more about football than me. That’s the extent of my football knowledge. Ibrahimovic may be better, that’s fine with me. If you talk to me about Ronnie Peterson, the “SuperSwede”, THEN I might have something to say…

              • gog

                TBH I lost interest in football years ago, but I do enjoy watching Zlatan still. Prefer hockey and MMA, sadly there aren’t many great Portuguese athletes in either sport afaik.

              • Rob

                All this football talk and no mention of Messi!! Blasphemy!!

              • Rob

                I don’t doubt SWToR is profitable, EA would close the show down if it wasn’t. My argument would be that worldwide a high percentage every football fan that is of gaming age and has access, will likely own a copy of FIFA or PES (the competition), or both.

                Just on the sheer scale of the market I would deem FIFA, easily EA’s most profitable venture. A sport watched by billions and a game marketable to 100s of millions of customers.

              • eckostylez

                There’s nothing wrong to say FIFA makes EA a shit ton of money. It’s just completely disingenuous to say that SWTOR isn’t making them millions and then use that to whine and complain about the state of the game (which I have already agreed is bad). These are the people who can’t move on to another game or let SWTOR go and would rather complain about every minuscule issue that arises.

              • Rob

                I happen to agree with you, I was merely stating my belief that a large portion of their profit was driven by FIFA. That isn’t to say SWToR didn’t make them a pretty penny, I have no doubt it did. Like you say it requires minimal upkeep and has huge micro transactions added now.

                Sorry if we got our wires crossed, I just believe that FIFA is far more profitable than SWToR. I would like to see the profits made from SWToR reinvested into the game, but that’s another discussion.

              • eckostylez

                Oh definitely FIFA is most likely way more profitable than SWTOR.

              • Eban

                yeah I am confused too.
                It did seam like his point was that SWTOR was making them a barrel load and up there with fifa.

              • Rob

                Yeah I don’t think he clarified his point very well but I do agree with him that EA would pull the plug if it wasn’t making any money.

                However the way they’ve allowed this game to fall so far behind there competitors doesn’t bode well for any future. Think we can all see that it’s just about milking it dry whilst dangling a carrot of promise in front of the few subscribers who remain.

                One day soon even the most ardent BW fanatic will lose the faith and it will be goodnight. If EA do release another Star Wars MMO in the future will you play? I’d have reservations based on how this game has been treated.

              • Paulo Gomes

                Man, you got it completely backwards. I HAVE moved on to another game. Alas, it’s not Star Wars. It’s way better than TOR, but it’s not Star Wars.

                You see, the problem is that these incompetent sob’s that run this game have a monopoly on all things Star Wars. THAT’S the problem.

                Minuscule??? Now you’re pulling my leg. You mean to say that a group of devs that are supposed to test these patches NEVER FOR ONCE considered someone might make a Guild Summon to a player that didn’t have the Stronghold yet??? That’s the FIRST THING THEY SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF. Incompetence. Pure and simple. You don’t even have to agree with me, since Keith has acknowledged it was a royal fuck up himself.

                What about the time they dropped SoR FULL OF GAME BREAKING BUGS on us players… And went on fucking vacations??? You talk like this is the first time they’ve messed up. It isn’t. And we, the serious players of this game who have been to Hell and back with these people, have warned them time and time again. Still they don’t listen.

                And you, I’m sad to say, are part of the problem. If you fail to see all this I’ve been writing about… You’re truly one of the “converted”…

              • eckostylez

                So what is your moaning and bitching going to solve? Besides deter maybe new players who may want to try out this game? Good job!

                What I don’t understand is you said you moved on to another game already. Then halfway through your asinine post, “we, the serious players of this game”. So much for moving on (if you truly did, I wouldn’t be seeing your incessant comments on Dulfy).

                You think it’s so easy to just produce the most perfect, infallible code. Like I said before, you are the “get me your manager” mothers of the video game industry.

              • Paulo Gomes

                Easy answer for ya: I don’t care about TOR anymore. If I did I would be logged in, playing it, not bothering to come here. What I do want is a good STAR WARS MMO to get off on. Until I get that I’ll bitch and moan as much as I want to.

              • eckostylez

                If you didn’t care, then you wouldn’t be here showing how much you care by wasting time coming up with whiny comments. You’d be better off playing on a private server where your moaning may actually get some changes done.

              • gog

                Thing is, for those of us who’ve played TOR for years, seeing TOR in its current stage is like watching how an old close friend of yours become a heroin addict. We still care, but are saddened that they’re nothing but an empty dying shell of their former self, with all that wonderful potential completely wasted.

              • Rob

                Well I think Paulo was talking of the monopoly EA have on the Star Wars label when it comes to gaming. More to the point Paulo like me was there from the start, so to see how bad the game has become is pretty heartbreaking.

                If you’re happy to play the game in it’s current state, good luck to you, but you shouldn’t hate on someone who wants it to improve. The fact that as a playerbase we are so diverse in what we want, isn’t a problem for me. I believe that if BW pulled it together we could all be happy.

              • Eban

                The devs will never gain any slack and rightly so.
                SWTOR when first released was a mess but they did a great job of fixing it.
                Said loads of times around 2.0 to 3.0 this game was doing brilliant.
                Then for reasons unknown things went way way way downhill.
                When you take a IP as big as Star Wars and ruin it then people are forever going to be pissed.
                Plus its hard to be sympathetic to incompetence.

              • eckostylez

                There are 7 devs left working on SWTOR, compared to 30+ at 2.0. You are not going to get the content you think you deserve and not going to have 0 issues in the games. Look at how long it took to “fix” the council cheevo in EV. Of the 7 devs, 3 of them are have worked on this game for the majority of its lifetime.

              • Eban

                Exactly thats my point.
                If this game was making millions and millions then the dev team would still be 30+
                Its low dev team / low new content / low profit

              • eckostylez

                No, lol. EA knows that they can continue to make millions while not having to have a fully staffed development team. If this game was not making them millions, it’s plug would have been pulled not longer after that.

              • Eban

                No wait hold up..theres a difference between millions and making millions and millions.
                We all agree they are making some kind of profit but they aint making a massive profit like previously.
                Claiming this game is making them a ton and up there with fifa is where this discussion began and called BS

              • eckostylez

                Except no one has claimed it was up there with FIFA. It was that this game makes EA millions and millions. Which it does. We know exactly how much money was spent creating this game and have a basic understanding of upkeep. Based on financial reports since launch, this game has made EA millions and millions in profit. If this game wasn’t, it wouldn’t be around anymore. The EXACT same thing happened with SWG. For people who say they’ve been here since day 1, they sure do seem surprised about seeing the same things since day 1.

              • Eban

                Thats the thing it sounded like you did , it came across to a few people here that was your entire point.

              • Rob

                The question is why is there so few devs? Why does BW/EA seem content to run ToR with a skeleton crew.

                You say ‘content’ and ‘deserve’ like BW is doing a fine job at the moment. They still charge a premium subscription rate, surely that ‘deserves’ a premium game?

              • eckostylez

                Because they know that they can still make money off this game (it’s six years old at this point), without having the need to create significant content. I don’t think BWA is doing a fine job at all. This game has been downhill since 3.0 pretty much.

                But they are not going to have high operating costs for a 6 year old game that can’t keep a steady membership that has an average increase trend. They are going to milk it for what it’s worth. Complaining about it won’t resolve anything. Play if you still find the game entertaining. Don’t play it if all you want to do is whine about every single issue that arises.

              • Paulo Gomes

                Finally! Something we can agree on. Well, almost. I’ll still bitch and moan, but the rest is fairly sensible.

              • Naq

                So. I’m fighting my way through the 9th Arena of the Maelstrom, surrounded by fire, blood, the bones of the fallen, fighting demons tooth and claw for a shot at a really cool new staff, when in the distance, I see a signal. The “if you don’t like it, just leave” alarm was pressed and I’ve been summoned.

                These people aren’t whining. They are the people who still care enough to complain. The people who can’t post their opinion on the official forums because they will be deleted. When the last complaint is silenced by the sensitives who can’t handle criticism, that is the same moment the game officially dies, or worse, lives on as the awful shallow husk of what it could have been until the last whale spends his final dollar on the latest shiny stupid garbage they release instead of content.

                These aren’t whiners, or doom sayers. These are the people who stay to voice their discontent until the end, in the place they still can. They are that girl on top of the mountain with the baseball bat, trying to save the world from the meteor. Its hopeless, but its what they’ve decided to do because they still give a shit.

                Now everyone play nice, mommy has a staff to farm. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/828bcbd708e3ad8f6009cb4221010c1be03edbed170e59723044c0c97998aabc.jpg

              • gog

                I just cleared the normal maelstrom for the first time last week, gonna be fun to see how many times I die the first try I try the veteran version this weekend…. Good luck with your farming!

              • Naq

                I’ve got the last boss in Vet down to 25% health, but died right as I went to start executing. Taking a break and trying again. Still its nice to be 8/9 done. I think I died about 40 times to him alone so far.

              • gog

                Have a feeling it’ll be something similar for me, at least my CP is pretty high, might have to respec though. You’ll get the boss eventually.

              • Naq

                Got him. No use for hammers, but I’ll take the win. Current gear is 5 Julianos, 3 Willpower, 2 Grothdar Monster Set. Nonset Flame staff main, Non-set Resto staff backbar(Willpower though so they aren’t red chrome).
                https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/855c87a0791697a6e578713dde3a286dbc8fe7bbc055f4e1b503df962814ff88.jpg

              • gog

                Congrats! 🙂 and she looks pretty cool with that hair too.
                Spent all weekend doing achievements on my stealthy NB main just to obtain dyes. Still use Night’s Silence + Night Mother’s Embrace (5p each) on her just for the stealth bonuses, purely a thief/assassin character. Gonna grind vet maelstrom with the warden another weekend instead, unless I get stuck in PvP with that toon, still want the black/white dyes from the higher ranks there…

              • Naq

                I have some friends playing Destiny 2 right now pulling out their hair over dyes being single use. I love that I can change my look daily if I like, and it adds value to so many achievements so you can seek them out as a personal goal. Rewards for playing the game, who’da thunk?

              • Rompe Himself

                Will you marry me?? 😛

              • Rob

                It is true that complaining to BW is literally like shouting at brick wall. Throughout 4.0 I complained endlessly about their game direction on the official forums. Alas, nothing changed, instead they kinda went the other way with a kind of ‘fuck you, we know best’ attitude toward their customers.

                I don’t feel I whine about every issue that arises. I’m intelligent to realise that all games have bugs and patch delays etc. However the issue of game direction is one I will never stop complaining about because I simply to do understand why they would allow this game to fall into such a woeful state. It’s not like a few more devs will bankrupt EA. I believe a thriving ToR would be way more profitable than this abomination we have before us.

              • Paulo Gomes

                It’s a ratio problem. How much of a skeleton crew does it take to run the game with minimal profits. How much personnel EA can cut from BW, or divert them to other places and keep earning some money.

                We’ve been at each other, and we agree on the fundamentals of the problem all along. And no, we’re not going to get the same treatment as other AAA titles. Yes, the quality is going to suffer.

                Question is: is that good enough for you? It certainly isn’t for me. You can bet your lightsaber I’m going to come here and cry, moan or whatever each and every time they screw up. Because as far as I know the cost of subscribing is roughly the same as other AAA titles out there.

                You wanna play in the big league, you gotta keep your chops up. Or else.

              • Rob

                That’s the thing for me, BW/EA are happy to charge the same as WoW but they can’t get anywhere near the level Blizzard are at. For a while they made a decent fist of it, but those days are long gone. It’s not like a few more devs would bankrupt them, at least then they could be ‘seen’ to be a least trying.

              • Rompe Himself

                What this game should do is either TRULY go F2P like TSW did or charge a far far less sub fee to match the pittance of content now being released. That way, BW Austin can continue to be the lazy useless fucks they are with their little skeleton crew of incompetence, while the customer is not being ripped off anymore charging premium sub fees while getting next to nothing in new content. WOW, FF & ESO deserve to charge what they do. SWTOR has no business charging a sub fee anymore. But EA is in charge, so yeah, not going to happen I know.

              • abaddonsmummy

                Do we know these employee numbers are correct.
                I’ve been suspecting it for a while but it’s hard to truly ascertain exact numbers.

              • Paulo Gomes

                Incessant? Hardly. Maybe on this post, and the other one I referenced you to. But I don’t post nearly as much as I used to.

                “Serious” as in a player who was here since day one (almost, I had a problem with my ISP right at launch. Not REALLY day one, but hey…), active both here and in the official Forum first actually. “Serious” as someone who advised against the KotFE/KotET direction the game went to (and I got a lot of flack right here on Dulfy as a result. A LOT). “Serious” as someone who played this game from top to bottom, cleared all material there was to clear, except pvp. “Serious” as a Guild leader. “Serious” as someone who ALWAYS paid his subscription, even when the game went f2p. “Serious” as someone who dished our the doe to pay not for one, not for two, but three subscriptions of the game, one for himself and two for his kids (who saw the light way before daddy did, and quit the game).

                Now, as to moving on… There are more important things in my life than a computer game. I’m sure you have those too.

                Maybe I haven’t moved on. Because there’s nowhere to move on to, gaming wise. Were we to talk about Fantasy MMO’s… Oh I’d be spoiled for choice mate. But Star Wars… Nope. No exit from that one.

                And here’s the thing you should be thinking of. There are a lot of guys like me. A whole lot. We just need an excuse to return to our lightsabers and sniper rifles and whatnot. These guys aren’t providing that excuse. Other MMO’s are basically saying: “hey, you know we don’t have lightsabers, but we do have an interesting, functioning game”. And they’re winning! Taking players out of this game, players that NEVER wanted to leave.

                Try to see it from our perspective, for once. We don’t want to hate the game, we want to love it. Again. Just provide the excuse…

              • abaddonsmummy

                Yeah you can’t even compare the two, football is uber massive and Star Wars is niche and Star Wars PC MMO (these gaming rigs are expensive) is even more niche.
                Yes SWTOR makes them money but nothing compared to the world religion that is football.

      • Shawn Hargrave

        the millions arent from tor though LOL

    • Shawn Hargrave

      im just waiting for the doors to shut and the next star wars mmo comes out which i hope is better and not ea related until then ill be in swg emu’s

      • Sorotia

        Good luck getting anything Star Wars that isn’t EA related these days, unfortunately. With how lazy they were with Battlefront…I don’t know if I see playing a new Star Wars game for a long time…SWTOR is all I have but unfortunately it isn’t in great shape. 🙁

      • bob

        and if they do shut it down and make a new SW MMO it will be just like SWTOR. SWTOR has been far more succesful then SWG. Why would any MMO Star Wars or not follow SWG model? SWG was a complete failure. It was so bad even Sony didn’t follow that model again.

        • Shawn Hargrave

          Im playing swg right now lol the game so bad they have tons of emus of it tor is not doing well they cant even make a complete raid lmao.

          • bob

            then how come a single tor server has higher pop then all of the EMUs put together?

            • Shawn Hargrave

              Lol yeah ok keep drinking the kool aid dude.tors already had server merges take a look around here your the only fanboi tool left in this ghost town

              • bob

                yes it did have mergers and now each server can hold more then 5 regular servers. SWG had all of its servers merged and destroyed. Now there are only EMUs the most populated only has 500 people. The only one drinking kool aid is you if you think that SWG EMU has more people then SWTOR

              • Shawn Hargrave

                lmao ok spinmiester /smh you should work for ea dude. You must not be looking at the right emus then. swg emus havent had any server merges lolz. Man you are a tool lol. Server merges happen because people have left the game not to increase people rofl!! you keep defending your glorious game white knight!

              • bob

                no i said SWG merged all the servers. You don’t know how to read do you? People left SWG in droves it had the highest attricition rate of any MMO ever.
                So they merged servers fast. Then they shut the game down.

                I never said there were any SWG EMUs. I said the highest pop EMU only has 500 active players. Of coruse that includes multiboxing.

                I don’t need to defend it its already more succesful then SWG ever was.

                You however still need to keep attacking because nothing you say or do will change that SWTOR is the second most succesful western MMO of all time.

              • Shawn Hargrave

                first off you come on here like before attacking/fanboing away doing nothing but defending your pile of shit that everyone here has either left or tired of no new content so lets get that straight. Secondly if you played the emus you would know thats you bs and just you trying to troll and fanboi again lol

                you dont seem to understand what server merges are and why they happen /smh (server merges on a emu LOL)

                Take a look around dude i should call guiness world records with you worlds last fanboy!

              • bob

                simple question if SWTOR is such a shit game how come it has more players then SWG or SWG EMU ever had? EMU is free why aren’t more people playing that instead of SWTOR?

                I NEVER SAID SEVER MERGERS ON AN EMU! I said SWG when it was run by SONY had Server mergers. SWG EMU doesn’t have enough people to fill 1 server the most populated only has 500 people

              • Shawn Hargrave

                Your the only one saying they arent like i said white knight take a look around you your fanboing away and your so concerned about swg and emus if all of this is true why would you care? If its really no threat and only 500 players lolz at that why bother? Ill tell you why b/c your the last fanboi left here tors had to server merge 2 times harbinger and what servers are left barely have 60 players on at a time well on the emus theres always more then 60 Players lolz so you keep at it white knight be sure to buy plenty cartel packs lmao

              • bob

                its not a threat… you started this by claiming SWG EMU is superior so by your own logic if SWTOR isn’t a threat ans SWG EMU is so much better why post about it?

                on and TIME DID TELL SWG Failed SWTOR is still alive and doing better then SWG ever did.

              • Shawn Hargrave

                No you started this like the last 100 times you come on here and start a fanboi fest and white knight away hey guess what swg is still here to. I never said tor was a threat to swg b/c its not lol but you sure do come on here start a white knight charge in a ghost town lolz its funny how theres emus of such a suposed bad game eh seems people like it enough to bring it back

              • bob

                never said SWG EMU isn’t still around i said SWG by SOE is gone. SWG EMU has a very small community.

                And SWTOR is still here larger then SWG and SWG EMU ever were.

                All it takes is 1 person to make a EMU. The largest SWG EMU is 500 people

                that’s pathetic

              • Shawn Hargrave

                LMAO you think 1 person can start an emu aaaawhaha man are you clueless you want know whats pathetic starting another pissing match with me “again” and not realizing your in a ghost town and fanboing away take a look around dude just smh

              • bob

                that’s exactly what happened with Warhammer Online’s EMU. It was one guy who got it up and running.

                If i’m in a ghost town how come SWTOR has more players then SWG ever had?

              • Shawn Hargrave

                Im an i.t tech dude theres no way in hell 1 person can run any emu lolz it takes a LOT you have no idea. Like i said take a look around the majority of people are dirching tor i know your busy obessing over swg this and that but might want to take a look around

              • bob

                no you’re not. and yes 1 person created the Warhammer EMU.

                and? There are more people playing it then complaining about it. Same with WoW.

                How come you can’t answer the simple question. If SWG was so great why are there so few people playing it?

              • Shawn Hargrave

                Lmao man your dilusuonal. My i.t degree says otherwise.How come your obsessed with swg? Your question is you fanboing and bs thats why i cant answer a question made up in your mind.theres more people in emus then tor at this point. This from my roommate who logged onto tor saw 52 on harbinger lolz went on the emu was over 230 people were on tattoine alone Youve come on here for the 1000 time obsessing about swg it obvious you consider swg some kind of HUGE threat to your precious shitpile guess what the emus are here and they aint going anywhere so keep going lets hear hear it tor has 2 billion subs and more fanboism lmao

              • bob

                HAHA You supposdely are in IT and you have a roomate? HAHA oh that’s pathetic

              • Shawn Hargrave

                Its my sister whos needs a place to stay while they rebuild her house from the recent fires here last summer god your a stupid idiot i see why you play tor now lol. Just fyi dude im a retired it tech i own a medical marijuana dispensary and i make more $$ in one hour then youll make in a lifetime /smh

              • bob

                haha now you’re retired? haha your story keeps changing. It’s not your sister last month it was your friend who was your roomate. You’re post history doesn’t lie.

                So you went from IT tech to you own a Dispensary. That is such bs.

                This is hilarious you are RPing a rich person. Oh man keep this going

              • Shawn Hargrave

                Yeah says the 40 year old living in in his parents basement on a swg rant lol

              • bob

                someone is projecting. HAHA you already admitted to being 40 years old, you only talk about SWG and look you lied about your jobs. HAHA PROJECTION

              • Shawn Hargrave

                I made 181,002 today what did you make today at wendys huh? As for projecting lol take a look in the mirror dude my parents been dead 10 years i havent spoken about swg other then here when you had tantrum here i notice you dont want to discuss swg anymore lol

              • bob

                HAHA omg that is such a complete lie. You are claiming you made over $181k in a day owning a dispensary when the most popluar chain only makes 1 million gross a year. The average is around 60k-100k a year.

                OMG you are just so awful

                BTW if you are making 181k a DAY why are all of the SWG BEGGING for Money? You can’t even fund a single one of them?

                HAHA oh this is hilarious.

                please keep going

              • Shawn Hargrave

                Lmao you have no idea absolute 0 about dispenseries dude thats whats really funny 100k is what i make daily why i retired from being an i.t tech man you are you beyond the autism spectrum lol btw shit for brains you might want to check the newest post here about more server merges lol tors going so strong there gonna be down to what looks like 5 servers lmao swg never had this many merges enjoy your shitbox lololz

              • Lingtan

                I normally don’t comment on here, but this is just absolutely wrong. I have played on many EMU servers and they were always full of people. The one I’m playing on right now, have an average of 900+ every single day.

              • bob

                oh cool Shawn is using a sockpuppet account how pathetic There isn’t a single SWG EMU that has over 500 players

    • Vay

      You wanna hurt me? Go right ahead if it makes you feel any better. I’m an easy target. Yeah, you’re right, I play too much Swtor. I also love it too much. I could be a cold-hearted cynic like you… but I don’t like to hurt people’s feelings. Well, you think what you want about it; It’s not changing. I like… I like it. My friends likes it. My family like it. ‘Cause It’s the real article. What you see is what you get

      • Paulo Gomes

        Sometimes the truth hurts. No, it doesn’t make me feel better. What would make me feel better would be an MMO worthy of the Star Wars brand. But as you so eloquently put it, we ain’t gettin’ that. Not with these people. So hey… To each his own. Glad you, your family and friends are happy with a sub-par product. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

      • Rob

        Grand prize for movie reference of the month 😛

      • Rompe Himself

        Paulo is far from being a cold hearted cynic, regardless if you are quoting from Planes, Trains and Automobiles which given that scene, actually doesn’t really apply to what Paulo said but I digress. He speaks the truth as usual which is uncomfortable for those who have their undying devotion to swtor/BW Austin badges firmly embedded into the flesh of their chest as a mark of pride like Darth Jinx or Abaddonsmummy to name but two.

        Understand that players like Paulo and many others who inhabit this page (myself included) played this game from the very start and we have had to witness this game descend from it’s once lofty and promising point (Oricon) to the farcical crap it has become of late post 4.0, all the while begging the devs to stop driving off the cliff but then being insulted by them as they drive off the cliff with their claims of listening to us. Everything they have done since 4.0 points to the opposite of listening. I remember Abaddonsmummy talking up SWTOR getting a single solitary Op boss in an uncompleted Op a couple of months back like it was a big achievement. What a farce. This is what the game has come to. BW Austin have successfully divided the player base into two groups.

        Players who demand better for their sub money to match what many other sub based mmo’s (and even B2P mmo’s like GW2) are putting out. This group also has left in frustration at the mind numbingly stupid decisions this game has made such as GC/RNG Crates, recycled content and bugs never being fixed (It is now well over a year since GTN Preview Window has been borked but BW Austin can’t bring themselves to admit it and fix it or the Romance companion gift, broken since 4.0).

        Then there is this other group of Players (Commonly known as Fanboi’s) who think BW Austin can do no wrong and support them in every idiotic wrong decision they make even when it is killing the game and subs are leaving in droves. This group are also happy in accepting the meager content being released and talk it up like it is epic and comparable to any mmo out there. And they will never accept that the player base is a shadow of it’s once former self pre 4.0. Their rationale is “look how much money this game makes”. Yeah we all know how stupid and living in denial this group are………

        If BW Austin had any brains (which we know they do not), they would stop what they are doing, get rid of their little player advisory group (whatever they called them) since it is clear what they suggest is just as stupid as BW Austin given the state of the game, and do a total reassessment of all the past 2-3 years of fails under Ben and course correct this game’s direction. But the fact BW Austin keep moving in the same direction that has seen the player base demolished, shows that zero fucks are given by the devs and they will just milk this game til it dies a sad, inglorious death.

        “Oh but Rompe, Keith communicates with us more, His a player like us. He cares what we think”. Does he now? Or is this just more of the second group of players living in denial and talking up a mediocre point to convince themselves this game is alive and well? Keith is more of the same as has been proven all year. He talks a bigger game then Ben sure, but has shown himself to be just as deaf and blind as Ben. Yes, Keith inherited a fine mess with a Ben Irving run SWTOR, but if he is in charge, he sure as hell isn’t turning this car around. He is just talking our ear off with bullshit platitudes as the car goes over the cliff.

        And for this, I prefer Ben out of the two. At least Ben didn’t bother wasting his time trying to bullshit or even talk to the players for what is going on. Ben did what he wanted and thought GTFO to anyone who objected. And that is what happened. Many peeps GTFO. Keith, on the other hand, like Eric Fucktard Musco, talks out his ass and paints a pretty picture but then bullshit meets the reality wave when patches come out and we see that Keith is just more of the same.

        Said it once, say it again: Same shit SWTOR script, different shit actors.

        • Eban

          ^fantastic post

        • Ezechiel Darken

          I also love how players who say “this game isn’t going downhill” are usually players who came to this game after 4.0 or are stuck in vicious cycle of doing SM and regs only.
          *stands up and claps for Rompe then logs off SWTOR and launches ESO*

          • Paulo Gomes

            Most people that support these guys are either completely blinded by the Star Wars franchise or are recent players that have no idea what is going on around them, MMO wise.

            Take ESO, for instance. A game that also runs on a modified Hero engine. You see the problems these guys have introducing ONE Stronghold. I wonder: if they had to present the equivalent of 40 Strongholds, like ESO did, how many problems we would have…

            • Rompe Himself

              Not to mention how many years would it take BW Austin to deliver 40 strongholds if they can’t cheat like they did with the latest sh being a stripped down version of the FP. 😛

              • Amodin

                Last two*

                Fixed. You forgot Manaan, it’s just like the FP area outside.

                Shomer shabbos!

              • Ezechiel Darken

                I just wrote some comparison. I didn’t play ESO for some time and I just noticed what ZOS gave us compared to Bioware “extra hyper mega uber pro dlc givers”.
                Homestead – few dozen SHs.
                New DLC – Morrowind. New class, new abilities, new PvP mode, new story, new trial/operation.
                Horns of the Reach – two dungeons/flashpoints, new bonus sets + new monster sets, new chevos, titles, bosses. Also new account-wide costumes.

                Bioware:
                – broken FP and broken SH.

                kek

            • Ezechiel Darken

              To me it’s enough to say that Oricon was the best spot SWTOR was at in its entire history. I started playing shortly before RotHC was released, maybe one or two weeks earlier. Story content was okay, ops were kinda challenging and people had tons of fun doing it – remember HM Lost Island, nightmare of progressive guilds? It was a FP and still much more challenging than today operations. Game has been dumbed down, yet people still wipe on KP or EV bosses. Regs are dominated by Mercs with 3 lifes because for Bioware players saying “give IO better heat management or/and quicker ramp up so it’s competitive Merc spec” equals “give Mercs better dcds than tanks have, give them Saber Reflect + Enraged Defense in one gcd”. When people asked to nerf Merc’s survivability, Bioware simply nerfed Arsenal DPS and justified it by saying all dps must be in specified spot around 9-10k dps top. After that they stayed with nerfing dps. I have a feeling they know they are doing the wrong and stupid thing, they are just to proud to admit it and prefer to trash their own game rather than type on forums something along the lines of “sorry, majority of you was right and we were wrong, let’s rebalance classes”.
              I won’t even start about same ops for 2 or 3 years now. I won’t even start about Bioware saying “double cxp, xp and MUCH MORE” is the same as “double cxp, xp and valor”.
              Bugged CZ dailies are still bugged dailies, they didn’t fix those because it’s good PR for fanbois who prefer to grind cxp rather than play better MMOs. SWTOR is AVERAGE at most, it lives mostly off Star Wars label.
              Only reason why I am logging into SWTOR is solo ranked. It’s nothing like it was at S3 but it’s still more competitive than HMs these days.

            • Bakgrind

              Not to be that guy, but Zenimax licensed the Hero Engine when the studio was founded, it was just used to quickly get working prototypes of the game, while a separate team was busy developing the proprietary engine that would
              actually power the online title.

              http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-Elder-Scrolls-Online-Doesn-t-Use-the-Hero-Engine-Developer-Says-272344.shtml

              • Paulo Gomes

                Yes, I’ve heard that too. Nonetheless, the Hero Engine logo does appear when you log on to ESO (at least it did, I haven’t played in a bit).

                In any way, they did what BW should have done: take a template and build a reliable, stable engine. I don’t know if you ever played ESO, but I can tell you that it’s open world pvp would make TOR die an agonising computer death.

        • Rob

          I couldn’t agree more with everything you said. My problem is that I don’t game at all anymore, I don’t wanna play any other MMO as I’ll feel like I’m too late to the party. So for ToR to have gone downhill so badly really hurts me, I want to play, I have the free time and the money to pay for a subscription but I will not as I can’t accept this version of the game.

          If they got their shit together they’d have my custom for life, alas, like you say, they seem intent on driving off the cliff.

        • abaddonsmummy

          Since you were lovely enough to name me twice I have to respond.

          I ‘talked up’ as you say content because that was what we were all wanting, end game content that we were missing for years so it was very welcome to see some.

          You make some good points although your perspective on it is very skewed.

          Remember that Bioware had just finished the AWFUL Kotet and Kotfe, a single player driven project they were invested in for years, planned and budgeted for a year in advance, so there was no going back no matter the feedback during it.
          So the story driven direction was coming to an end and they were well aware what the fallout was from the existing player base at being left wanting for years.

          Tempers were high and they had to do something and as I saw it Bioware had two options

          Option 1. Pull all their resources together, plan a Operation, Daily planets, Flashpoints etc etc for us disappear for a year or two and give us a scheduled release in a few years like all the other MMO’s do, with all the content at once in an fanfare of trumpets. This is the common practice in MMO’s.
          Pros to this is we get a chunk of content that will keep us busy for a while when it arrives.
          Cons to this is that in the meantime there’s going to be a big backlash regarding ‘no new content for the existing player base’ while we wait and the usual ‘game is dead’ shouts. Tbh their fault for years of no end game content while they churned out single players nonsense.

          Option 2. Give the players a Bi-monthly/quarterly small content boost instead of bringing it all out at once, trying to keep content flowing constantly a bit at a time to appease the angry end gamer players.
          Pro’s to this is that every few months we get something, either another ops boss in the Gods of the Machine Op, a flashpoint, new planet and dailys, Strongholds, QOL improvements, and a PVP area, all a bit of something to keep people happy (well some lol).
          Cons to this I see are every small release is micro analysed, pulled apart and not judged as part of a whole project but as a disparate part of random content, and because when it’s been completed in a day or two people look around for something else to do and it’s only old content left again.

          One of my favourite Op’s of all time is ravagers in sm and hm but if I imagine them releasing it piecemeal, one boss at a time and it being judged in the same way as Gods of the machine is I probably wouldn’t like it as much as it wouldn’t flow the way it does for me as a whole Operation should. Going from boss to boss, area to area gives an Operation the ‘complete’ experience.
          There’s a great saying that ‘the whole is greater than the sum of it’s parts’.
          To clarify what I’m saying here is I think it’s a big mistake to release an Operation in this piecemeal manner.

          I’m not a fan of the regular content releases to be honest but I completely see what Bioware are trying to do for their players.

          Regarding ‘fanbois’ it’s hilarious to see this still getting used, especially toward me as there are many many things I don’t like about the game, to me though it’s still the best MMO out there and I’ve played most BUT hey that’s just my opinion. At it’s core it’s still an excellent game but it’s mainly excellent older content. There are plenty of other people I’ve seen on here of late that enjoy the game but I’m sure they also have issues with the game that they don’t like.
          Can the ‘haters’ (again laughing that I have to use these words) still say the same or are they that jaded that they can’t, or won’t?

          ‘BIG Caveat’ – I’m not calling every who has problems with the game hater’s, most like me have genuine concerns and want the game to be better, it’s the same three or four on here that know who they are and are not here for the improvement of the game, sadly much like yourself Rompe.

          • Rob

            A good post, I agree a lot with what you said and I can understand BW trying to go after their former KoTOR players with their KoT** fiasco I really can. KoTOR 3 is game many have been crying out for for years, any business would be silly not to try and get some of that revenue. However going after these KoTOR customers at the detriment to your current customers is a ridiculous business strategy. I think this is the main reason for many peoples anger, it’s the breach of trust and lack of loyalty.

            My view when you talk of ‘the project’ is just a very genuine concern that the CM is far too prevalent within the game. By that I mean, if they can click a few buttons and make the equivalent of 3-6 months worth of subscription money in one go, where is the need to invest in good quality content that brings back and maintains subscribers?

          • Rompe Himself

            I feel almost dirty admitting this but you too make some valid points Abaddonsmummy, however you too also miss the point or mark on others.

            My point of you talking up the piecemeal Op where you said it was a quote “Massive” achievement. You are correct when you say it was what many of us was waiting for, that is proper end game content as opposed to stupid single player only content (whose replay value was non existent nor could be enjoyed with friends) that had no replay value.

            But what they gave us, this new piecemeal Op, is far from a “massive” achievement. For starters, it was a single solitary Op boss (at the time) who’s mechanics are pretty simple compared to past (and better) Ops. They didn’t exactly make it great. Let’s not bullshit ourselves and wear fanboi goggles. There was only one reason and one reason only they made this Op boss. They threw it out in a desperate, piss weak effort to stem the flow of peeps leaving as you well pointed out and it shows. There was nothing great about it compared to say your favourite Op Ravagers (Now that is a true Op) or my favorites “Terror from beyond” & the classic “Eternity Vault “. No real thought or effort went into it. It was a by the numbers Op boss, lacking in imagination. But at this point, BW Austin had painted themselves into a corner and were being punished for it.

            They said no more would we wait for a long time for Ops and then went and took a dump on said promise for over 2 years (among other promises) while they gave us the god awful “Keeping up with the Valkorians”. Amazing how they missed the point that when the (supposedly) majority of SWTORs player base said they wanted more story, they instead gave us a story about the Valkorians while relegating our character to an impotent support cast role. Oh you’re the leader of this rebellion? Great, but get out there and do everyone’s fucking bidding. Oh now you are the single greatest force in the universe, Great, now do the Republic or Empire’s bidding. BRILLIANT BW Austin story telling *SARCASM* (Note I said BW Austin, not Edmonton etc as they know how to write a game story even if Andromeda was woeful game wise). I cannot feel bad for BW Austin because all the above was self inflicted. They had time after time after time, warning after warning after warning, to change things, to listen to the people but Ben Irving, that eternal piece of shit, thought he knew better and now we have a more talkative version of Ben in Keith. He talks a better game and says things will improve but then does the same very thing Ben does, ignore player feedback and so here we are, SWTOR is a mess almost beyond repair and the player base decimated. And all the content under Keith is now too little, too late and doesn’t really change the direction this game is heading, just prolongs the inevitable. The patient has by this point, been riddled with so many bullet holes and Doctor BW Austin is only offering us a band-aid to fix the problem after all this time.

            Sure, the dev team is smaller now but the problem with BW Austin is that the team that is left are useless and lazy to say nothing of lacking in imagination and tone deaf in what we want. It doesn’t help that their former Op dev left BW Austin and Gods of the machine shows that those devs left, have no clue how to make a good Op, even if it is one op boss at a time. I bet you could have waited for Gods to be finished and not done a single Op boss til it was completed, and it will still be the worst of all the Ops SWTOR has to offer. So yeah I guess we could be happy with what we get like you are, but I choose not to be because quite frankly, while BW/EA have the cheek to charge us full sub fees while returning very little, they deserve all the scorn, criticism and more they get from not just me but by anyone who sees the joke that is this so called “content”. BW Austin put themselves here. Why should I be positive and reinforce their behavior? They continue to talk shit up after all this time, blatantly lying to us and ignoring our feedback, not giving us what we want. Why should I be positive about this?

            Let me ask you this Abaddonsmummy – If BW Austin released as the next Op boss, something that just stands there and gives you the middle finger while you whittle it’s health down, would that be an achievement by BW Austin in your eyes? And lo and behold, let us now further pretend and say that with the third Op boss, came the fourth with it and it was something that just stood there holding up a neon sign saying “BUY CARTEL COINS YOU BASTARDS”, would this too be counted as something great? You seeing my point yet? You congratulate BW Austin for giving us an Op boss but quite frankly, for the sub fees being charged, for what other MMO’s are offering, what they are delivering does not deserve your congratulations. It in fact positively reinforces their belief that what they are doing and providing is sufficient. Minimal effort, minimal content.

            And this is what led me to my two groups comment. The content that this game pumps out is mediocre. You have admitted so yourself for which I applaud you in admitting (finally). However what this game has done is trained those who don’t have common sense, live in denial or know better to accept what they put out and because these people are either too obsessed with SWTOR (the few left), or it is their one and only MMO so don’t know better, BW Austin is being rewarded and continue to do what they do thinking they can get away with it. And these peeps see the pittance of content as something bigger then it is. THEIR VIEW IS SKEWED. I see this game for what it is. A once great game turned tragedy and it breaks my heart.

            Do I wish it would be different?? TOTALLY!!! I had some great years when this game launched all the way to SOR with my wife and many friends and guildies who sadly all left the game because after SOR, they started seeing the writing on the wall. I held in there with my wife as we loved this game and bought cartel coins to reflect said love to help further support the game along with our 6 month subs, but after playing 4.0, after they did a litany of utterly stupid changes to the game like GC/RNG crates to name just a few, this game was well on its way over the cliff and we chose to no longer be a part of it. And the worst thing as I said?? This game had the potential to kill WOW, this game even now has the potential to be turned around. But the dev team in charge are too lazy and incompetent to put in any real effort. I mean just look how they cut corners everywhere they can and I am not talking about CM reskins. Look at Uprisings or the new SH for example. It is just a stripped down version of the new FP. WTF!!!! They have become complacent with this game and now only put out this little bit here and there to keep the lights on for as long as possible to appease EA’s all consuming hunger for profits. The worst thing is they could make so much more money if they only put in the effort. Hell, this morning I got an email from TSW (The Secret World) about how they added to TSW Legends, a new OP for 40 people in their New York part of the game. TSW is F2P yet they can do that meanwhile SWTOR still can’t finish the latest Op. We are now in September and like many predicted, it won’t be finished on time. It is made more embarrassing when you think of the IP. This should make EA so much money because it’s Star Wars for fucks sake!!!!

            So your so called “BIG Caveat” is flawed at best and utterly wrong at worst. I have said over and over if they got rid of GC/RNG and started giving us PROPER content to reflect the sub fee they demand, I would so be back in. But since 4.0, 2 years on, the trajectory of this game is downwards with not even a glimmer of it ascending. But unlike you, I will not congratulate BW Austin for doing these tiny little efforts while they bullshit to our face and let the game go down and down. BW Austin got themselves into this position. It wasn’t EA, it wasn’t you, nor me or anyone else that fucked SWTOR. It was BW Austin. They chose the direction for the game post 3.0, they thought of KOTFE/KOTET, they made changes the forums here, on reddit and on SWTOR.com said would be a disaster and chose not to listen. Even now, they continue on the same path. Can you honestly tell yourself this game has changed since Keith took over?? Look at what he has done in comparison and see it is just as I said, more of the same. Different actors, same script.

            That is the major difference with you and me. You want to be positive towards BW Austin no matter what, even lying to yourself when you openly admit you are not a fan of many of their changes as per your post. Me? I am blunt and honest and say it how it is. When BW Austin TRULY does something positive to help this game, not just beat the ever loving shit out of the slowly dying horse that is SWTOR, then I will support them. A lot of my complaints and points have been said by many on the forums and ignored by BW Austin. As the past 2+ years have shown, they just want to promise the world but give us scraps and tell us to be happy with that.

            No Thanks.

      • Fred Garvin
    • Rob

      Indeed Paulo, we were talking of incompetence last week before this happened, and this isn’t the first time they’ve fucked up royally, like you say. At some point you have to look a the facts and see this for what it actually is, an absolute woeful excuse of a game.

  • Duderino Gamer

    Loosing playtime is painful to everybody, I only had a 4 hour window to play that day and sadly it was taken up by this “Hiccup”. I understand some things cannot be avoided and mistakes happen, we are all human. I was mad at first, less so now, yet I feel some compensation is deserved for those most effected by this. Thank you for explaining the situation to us and good luck in preventing future outages.

  • Dr. Mike Wendell

    They’re looking at compensation? Surprised. They never have in the past when they screw up something. How about all those other times they promised something to us we’ve never received?

  • Guest

    How about as compensation they get rid of the command crates and go back to the old comm system. I feel that would be great compensation. RNG garbage is still RNG garage no matter how many cxp I earn.

    • Leah

      at least you can get a full starter set with command tokens now… so that’s a start

    • Whitedragon

      Command crates is life yo!

    • j’oe

      yeah comms were great, just remember the hords of people with bonus-less gear and high endurance dps mods

    • Rompe Himself

      Nah that won’t ever happen. If they got rid of the GC System and it’s RNG crates, people might be inclined to return to the game despite the mediocre content they are struggling to push out and if that is the case, they may have to up their game and put in some serious effort to keep those returning players they once gave the middle finger and took a dump on.

      BW Austin would much rather forget trying to lure former players back or new peeps and instead are more then happy to keep the lemmings left in SWTOR where they can put in minimal effort for minimal content and get away with it.

    • Agreed I fucking hate it.

  • Whitedragon
    • Darth Ji’inx

      You’re a few days late…

      • Rompe Himself

        Story of his life really. 😛

  • AbnerDoon

    They are leaving the “exploit” up another week for shits and giggles. No patch until next Tuesday. So the daily planetary missions are still giving out a decent chunk of CXP for the old weekly areas until then.

  • kirk

    still using bitraider for this game? I lol

  • Shawn Hargrave

    God your stupid lol. Do you understand what retiring from a job means? Why i would want to continue being an i.t tech when im offered my own dispensary that i can own and run and pulls in over a 100 mill a year after taxes lol. I have donated to emus dude of course they need $$ another thing you dont understand its not cheap running an mmo with no income hell tor cant even do it charging people. Lol at the fanboing stilll about tor go read the thread about server merges here and youll see how “well” its going /smh

    • bob

      I do but apparently you don’t. Retiring from a job doesn’t mean you get 100k a day

      Haha now you were “offered” your own Dispencary that makes 100 million a year which btw would make it the most succesful Discpencary in the entire United States.

      Right you donated that’s why ever month they need money to keep the servers up. HAHA oh you are such a creative liar.

      Please go on.

      • Shawn Hargrave

        Think what ya like dude i see why your so triggered by swg and why you play tor /smh as for donating like i said and what your to stupid to get is mmo’s cost money to run but what do you know? Tors on its last legs and your here concerned about my job and swg lol.

        • bob

          HAHA Oh my god you really are autistic. You don’t even know what Triggeded means.

          I do know what it costs to run SWG EMUs abotu 1,500 a month which you a multi millionare can’t even donate to a game you love. HAHA

          You have been saying SWTOR is on its last leg for 5 years now. Going all the way back to Gamebreakers website yet it has outlasted Gamebreaker.

          Come on go back to talking about how someone gave you the most profitible Dispencarary in the entire world.

          • Shawn Hargrave

            lol you come on here triggered start a pissing match obsess over my life you need to get laid dude what a sorry life you must have. 1500 bucks a month to run an emu LOL takes a lot more then that this is what i mean ill let you get back to flipping burgers

            • bob

              yeah you really don’t know what Triggered means. You were the one claiming you make over 130k a day and someone gave you the most profitable Dispencary in the United States ALL WHILE YOU HAVE A ROOMMATE HAHAHAHA

              But some how can’t afford to fully fiance a SWG EMU even though you could easily fiance your very own new MMO.

              What life you must have if you have to lie so badly about it.

              So tell me how much does say the Bloodfin server cost to run a month?

              • Shawn Hargrave

                /smh at the “triggered” response who started this huh? YOU over me mentioning swg lmao as for the rest blah blah blah go get laid dude

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