GW2 Arenanet On Next Raid Wing Difficulty

Arenanet Raid Designer Crystal Reid has a few comments regarding the difficulty of Wing 4 and the next Raid wing on the forums today.

New forum, so I’ll jump in with a new post on this.

We won’t be adding a different difficulty tier at this time. Raids need to continue to remain the most challenging content in the game, and they aren’t designed to be accessible by everyone from a skill perspective. Could they be more accessible from a “finding 9 other players to play with” side? Sure. That isn’t always an easy problem to solve, and any solution would detract away from the team making more raid content. We’d love to get more content out to you guys faster really.

I see a lot of comments about W4 difficulty, so I’ll add some notes on that as well. Balance came in later than expected since we had far more bosses and content to test than usual. Are we totally happy with how balance turned out? Yes and no. The Mursaat Overseer base difficulty is too easy, but we were very happy with the CM difficulty. For the next release we’d like to get difficulty tuned more back in line with Spirit Vale. However, some of that original difficulty and magic is hard to re-capture. You never forget your first raid boss kill.

Source:Β https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/113984/#Comment_113984

  • shameonyou

    Yessssss…keep denying 90% of your player base any hope of even seeing the raid boss in action. That’ll work just fine.
    I’ll say it first, I am doing all wings on a regular basis and have already obtained legendary armors, but without an introductory difficulty this content is dividing the players. even within the same guild. I have to allocate two different slots for guild raids, but even so I’m often encountering guildie, whose builds and rotations are insufficient, came to me confidently and said they can dps.
    I really don’t know what else to say apart from, yes, go to qtfy and make yourself a copy and robot on demand. And some of them don’t even care about the rewards, they just want to see the raid bosses and know the lore. I perfectly respect that. Anet has hidden an entire WM arc within the first 3 wings and many story-lovers in my guild didn’t (and couldn’t) know about it until I mentioned them.
    Spirit Vale is simple enough for a regular 8 men group to carry 2, but seriously wing 4 is a good difficulty to get people started. If they don’t want to make the rewards too easy to obtain just hide them behind the challenge mote. If they think a separate difficulty takes too much time just tune the stats. Seriously there are so many ways around this.

    • Madeleine Leroy

      Let them delete raids, push content like what made the game stand out in the first place and keep making more dungeons and other five man content. I’ve also been raiding on a weekly basis, but I see a pattern were so called “hardcore players” are leaving this game because it lacks “hardcore content” (let’s be honest, raids in GW2 are very easy) and the players that made this game big (casual noobs that can only press 1 and 2 who are unfortunately 90% of the player base) are leaving because a lot of content are now locked for them while they bought this game back when it was a very easy game. Again, delete raids and go back to the early stages of this game (skill wise) or keep losing players and money. Anet hasn’t always been the best in marketing their game.

      • Shaggy

        i dont mind them keeping the current difficulty level- the early game is still super easy to the point that a lot of people are turned off by how slow and repetitious it feels (especially since story missions are level-gated now).

        so the increase in difficulty is good.
        but what isnt good is not providing a way for solo or small-party players to enjoy major content. raids are neat, i get it, but without a new dungeon, all we get are the open world events. they should add at least one or two new dungeons. even if theyre higher difficulty, it gives us something to aim for, tangible goals we can reach towards.

        • Blazing_Blue

          This I agree with. No point deleting raids since there is an audience for it. When raids weren’t there, that’s all people were complaining about. Keep up the fractals but please bring back the dungeons. The story of path of fire will create good dungeons and provide hard content for 5 man teams.

          • Zis

            Just add a new path to each existing dungeon…

            • Shaggy

              that would be boring for everyone though- weve already played the dungeons to death, if a new path was added, it wouldnt really satisfy anyone on any side of the argument. it wouldnt change anything at all.

        • Raizel

          That already happened with HoT maps and mobs: then people started complaining about it being too hard….

          • Shaggy

            people will complain either way- the ones that complain about it being too easy are different from the ones complaining that its too hard. you have to figure out which is better for the community and the game overall.

            even if people complain its too hard, theyll keep trying unless the difficulty curve is super steep, which i dont think is a problem
            but if its too easy, more players will get bored and leave the game, which hurts the community and the experience. its a careful balance, but theres definitely more logic in having increased difficulty as long as its not excessive.

          • Narottam Zakheim

            Well theyve done a lot of work to fix the HOT content…. at first it was restrictive and unrewarding…. I actually quit the game for a while because I didnt like the new maps….. came back obviously πŸ˜›

            while working on my legendry HOPE… ive started doing HOT metas daily and have come to really love them…. by now most players have gotten down the mechanics… and to me they feel like accessible “Raids” that anyone can enjoy…. and have become quite rewarding too….

            In the metas you get 50-60 players all cooperating on separate objectives… all working toward the same goal…. there is a lot of communication… or banter at least…quite beautiful rly…. so I think these maps fulfil the purpose of giving more challenging content that would be impossible for 5 or even 10 people to complete on their own…. yet everyone can play as they like without the need for meta builds… to me this is more what GW2 is about…. I hope to see more of this type of content released in the future.

            Im a pretty serious player but have yet to dip my toes into the Raid scene… and yeah it feels pretty inaccessible… I would like to get into them… not for the rewards per say… not really interested in stat changing armour… nor the skins…. but I would like to play all that the game has to offer… and see the story.

            I dont rly like the meta build thing…. that you have to get the exact right gear and follow a rigid rotation to be valid… this seems out of step from the whole GW philosophy… but some are into this so its good that it is available…

            Ive decided that when I start raiding Im gonna go in as a healer…. I created a unique toon to be a druid… Ill gear her in the current meta gear and play accordingly…. Ill leave the rest of my chars to play as they like across the other game modes and wont worry about it…. this is my solution

            Ive been rly waiting for things to even out…. as time goes by… more and more players will become adept…. making it less hard to get into good groups…. I think this is happening already… at some point beating raids will be as standard as completing metas… just a matter of time

  • hardy83

    All I want is for them to recycle the raids into either small zones, or just cleared solo areas for people to explore. Is that asking too much?
    I get it, you don’t want all the rewards and stuff to go to the “non-elites”, but come on, this game encourages exploration and your cutting out chunks of the overworld map.

    There’s no reason not to have an easily accessible cleared instance of the raids to anyone who wants to explore it alone. Even if this is 2-4 months after the raids release.

    • Sty

      Except it already is very easy to join a cleared instance of the raids via lfg and explore it as much as you want (with the associated lore).

  • Alot

    This is the reason I don’t mind a bit of power creep (or extremely niche appropriate builds) with new expansions releases. It means that old raids get slightly easier to do.

    I wouldn’t mind if raids were nigh impossible save for the fact the legendary armors are only available by completing the current raid set.

    • Ares Zax

      Indeed! This is exactly what happened to dungeons. With the introduction of HoT, elite specializations (along with more widely accessible Ascended gear) meant that now just 1 or 2 good players could easily carry a team full of newbies. This meant that you could hop into any random dungeon LFG and still have a good chance of completing it. End result: on days when there’s a dungeon daily, you see lots of LFGs pop up and fill within minutes (if not seconds). It’s only because dungeon rewards got a commensurate nerf that we don’t see them being more popular.

      Regardless, I have no doubt that PoF will wind up making the old raids somewhat easier. Already my raid group is talking about how Druids switching from Magi’s to Harrier’s will result in a DPS increase for the team while ALSO improving their healing/buffing ability. The new elite specs will also bring in new mechanics that the old raids frankly weren’t designed to account for. (Again, just like what happened with dungeons.) It’s not like ANet’s going to say “Oh, the new elite specs are disabled in old raids.” That would just be stupid.

  • FrycoN

    All pve raiders already have legendaries, other ppl getting their armor from wvw and pvp so whats the point? who cares?

    • :3

      Yup, that was really the only reason any non-raider would drag themselves through it. Now good luck recruiting to those ppl

      • Saihah

        Why would you actually want to feel obligated to engage in content that you don’t want to do, for the sake of rewards?

        Raids should not be designed to accommodate non-raiders. Raids should be designed to be fun for raiders.

        • :3

          Exactly, except the means of switching stats/rune whenever you want rather than carrying several sets every time is usefull to *every player in game not only raiders. If you wanted that ?? you had to raid weather you liked it or not

          Now not anymore as there are other means, the player pool for raids shrunk

          • Alot

            Do you have any idea how much times (and the minimum amount of weeks) it would take to get a single set of stat changing armor out of WvW? Personally I have no idea – but it is huge.

            Same with structured PvP. Though I view the time to craft stat-changing armor from pvp as fair, You only get 400 shards form completing the entire spvp track – and you need 650 for a single piece of stat changing armor. The big caveat though (as you can redo the last, inefficient, reward box) is that you only get enough league tickets for 1 or 2 stat changing pieces every season.

            These were great additions to the game and a near adequate rewards set for people who dedicate their gaming experiences to WvW or PvP exclusively but the amount of time it would take a new comer to complete an entire stat changing set in WvW or PvP is ridiculous.

            Even if you not a great player, seeing as skill is needed across both PvE and PvP, I’d say you still better off trying the raiding route for an entire set of legendary armor then the other game modes.

            • Raizel

              Well PvP and WvW ones trade skill for time, I think it’s fair if one is not able to raid.

              • Alot

                Its definitely fair. If you aiming for a full set of stat changing armor though (as opposed to 1 or 2 pieces) its just seems more time efficient to go from pleb to raid elitist then the years it would take you to get get the stat changing PvP set.

                I’m not opposed to the current system at all, just my view that if you new to GW2 and enthusiastic about it, raids are the most likely approach to get you a full stat changing set in under 3 years.

              • :3

                Its take 4-5 weeks to get the tickets to craft one legendary in WvW if you hit the last chest every week .So a full set is about 6-7 months, its pretty fair deal to do something you like than to do something you don’t like especially with the elitist mindsets plaguing that area

              • Alot

                Care to list how many 5 minute ticks it would take to hit the last chest every week in WvW?

                We can assume the player is on the winning server every time he plays, is getting the +1 tick from the previous weeks participation and +1-2 from his rank.

                I think stating it takes 4-5 weeks of wvw is a bit misleading without giving the minimum hour requirement you’d need to complete each of those weeks.

              • :3

                Lmao 4-5 weeks is based on the ticket gate and not time spent

                If there was no ticket gate ,we could keep earning and it would be too easy to make
                It why the veterans are complaining that we are hitting the last chest too soon and would like to keep earning the tickets

                https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skirmish_reward_track

              • Alot

                Again, the time required to hit the ticket gate is incredible. You can only get that many tickets in 4-5 weeks but the hours played to get that many is unbelievably high.

                Not against the time requirements, it’s just by far the most time consuming way to get stay changing arm Or.

              • Ares Zax

                It’s definitely more time-consuming, but PvP/WvW Legendary armor also has easier access thresholds. For the most part, you can go solo into PvP/WvW and just slowly earn a bit towards your Legendary armor every day. You’re not beholden to the whims of 9 other players or their schedules (not to mention that if the raid meta changes drastically with PoF, you could be looking at some very expensive re-gearing. PvP re-gearing is completely free and in WvW, if you do nothing but cap camps and sentries, you can accomplish that in Exotics or lower).

                So yes, while I would say that raids are still faster (provided you’re willing to run meta builds AND have a good static group), PvP/WvW is easier.

  • :3

    When you have a raid instance where 8 can carry two or when some them are be soloed (lmao) you have failed the challenging aspect for the 5%
    So i don’t get your challenging content line there lmao

  • Ipos

    GW2 Raids are hard?

    Good one.

    • The One Copper Bard

      Have to get past the elite boss group that will hinder you from entering the raid wing πŸ˜‰

  • Trillium

    My first reaction was “Ahahaha, who on Earth gets their first raid boss kill in GW2, come on, its such a new game!”
    Then I realized I’m probably getting old and there are people for whom GW2 is their first MMO. That’s scary (that there are such people, I mean, not the getting old).

    • OldTimer

      Mine was similar. More like, “Magic hard to recapture? You never forget your first raid boss kill?” I gave up raiding years before GW2 was released and I’d have to Google my first and last boss kills.

      As for the rest, I’ve never played a game where everyone was satisfied with the difficulty of raids.

      • Trillium

        Your name is very fitting.

    • Answerer

      I mean, what is defined as the first raid boss kill?
      I played GW1, can we consider Dhuum, Mallyx, or the Darknessss as raid bosses? If not, then my first raid kill was in world of Warcraft, but even then, the raids of gw2 are so different i still consider the vale guardian a clean/new kill

    • Emil33

      GW2 is my first MMO ~ hangs head in shame ~

      I missed out on GW1 , I tried WOW and disliked the graphics, I also have a FFXIV account but always make my way back to GW2 … besides being a die hard console gamer the only other PC game Ive played is Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 …

      I will not get a chance at a Raid Boss …. sucks but raids are for the elite and I cant seem to get a crack at them LOL

    • Ardid

      I’m also an old player (like… 18 years playing?). I have played lots of MMOs, but GW2 is the first one I’ve stick to. I haven’t killed any raid boss yet in any MMO.
      People varies, there isn’t any need to get scared of that.

  • Mike Yorku

    Other than exploring large new maps on mounts, I haven’t really seen anything in expansion that I’m looking forward to. These updates are pretty meaningless to me. πŸ™

    • The One Copper Bard

      Sometimes one must wait until everything is fully released to see on what they have in store for us. Remember, those were demo runs that they gave us and not the entire bucket of ice cream πŸ™‚

    • nadrian3k

      My advice is to wait for some opinions, some live streams and youtube videos AFTER it releases and then decide if you really want the expansion or not.

      I for one bought it because what they showed compelled me. I like the fact that they put an accent on quantity of “Stuff” now….but that being said each has he’s own needs.

      Don’t rush.

    • viguiry

      You’re not a gw1 player

  • Lockheart

    Fractal difficulty is currently far ahead of raid difficulty.

    With only 5 people, the mechanics tend to require everyone to participate. Rather than the raid setup where they just have people acting like turrets that dodge sometimes.

  • Theminiature Painter

    maybe make gw2 end game content worth doing by adding proper rewards?

  • naght

    so is this “expansion” only…for mounts and new OP-trait-line-at-launch, only thing I’ve seen is that gw2 gets literally a desert load of stuff; and no gw2 raids are not hard, compared to fracs they’re AC p2

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