SWTOR Game Update 5.5 arriving October 10

SWTOR is dropping Game Update 5.5 on October 10 with some content shuffled into Game Update 5.6.

Any update in the Roadmap? What about 5.5? | 09.13.2017, 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by RevorteX View Post

Dear developers,

I know you had a lot of trouble the past couple of weeks due to certain weather issues and problems,and I hope everything worked out after all for the team.

So on to pressing matters:
1.Any news on how the Roadmap will pan out the following month/months?
2.Any news on the pending 5.5 update? We thought it will come out in September.
3.Any news on more class balancing?
4.Any news on returning companions? Some of us are eagerly waiting for certain companions.

If you give us a little hints on these notions,it would be great,cuz we are impatient to hear something. You were rather silent lately,which is understandable due to unforseen issues. Please let us know in a brief post,what is the direction.

Thank you!

Provide you with updates, I can!

  1. The roadmap is still in progress. We have been shuffling some things around with respect to 5.5 and 5.6 and we need that to settle before we can let you know exactly what is coming and when.
  2. It was our plan to put out Game Update 5.5 in late September but we have made the decision to move it into early October (currently 10/10). We did this to allow us more time to focus in on quality for our Game Updates to avoid some of the issues we had with 5.4.
  3. Class balance is still planned for 5.5. I expect I will start putting out those details starting next week.
  4. We know returning Companions is something there is great interest in. As soon as we have an announcement on any Companions coming back in a Game Update, you will be the first to know!


  • Eban

    1. Soon™
    2. Soon™
    3. Soon™
    4. Soon™

  • Vader

    So no dcxp until october instead of september

    • Blackfrost

      dcxp is going on now till 5.5

      • Vader


        • Hamlina

          no isn’t, dcxp returns with 5.5

          • Vader

            They said they would bring it back in september with 5.5 but know 5.5 isnt coming out until october if they bring it back until october then the glitch in the dailie areas will probaly be patched

            • Vader

              I want to know if i have to wait until 5.5 or if it will still be back in september

              • Hamlina

                keep watch of the tracker and youd have your answer. but here is a copy from it-

                Hey all,

                Recently, we have had more maintenances than normal. This was compounded by our update issues last Thursday which led to over 10 hours of maintenance. Thursday’s issue along with the extra downtime have impacted all of our playtime, and they especially are bothersome when you consider how much XP and CXP you lost from the Double XP/CXP event was running along with the over the top CXP for Daily Areas. So, to make sure your characters can take advantage from both, here’s what we going to do:

                Since the Double XP/CXP event ended on Tuesday, we’ve decided to bring it back earlier than planned. That is, we had scheduled to make it available in December around the holidays, but it’ll return with the launch of Game Update 5.5. That will give you another full week to benefit from the event.
                The Daily Area bug is also going to stick around for a few weeks. As Eric mentioned in another post, our plan was to fix it next week in another patch, but we’ve decided to hold off any changes until Game Update 5.5. I’m personally leveraging this as a means of playing my other toons and raising their Command Rank to 300. Honestly, it’s been a lot of fun seeing so many other players taking advantage, too.
                It is very clear everyone is really enjoying higher rewards on the older Daily Missions. As a result, we are exploring some options such as increasing CXP values above their base rewards, making rotating daily objectives worth high bonuses, and more. We will let you know where we land on these discussions, but one thing is for certain, higher CXP values are very motivational.

                Again, I want to thank you all for your patience the past couple of weeks.


                so again, the dailies won’t be fixed until 5.5 in October, and Double CXP will be brought back when 5.5 hits, instead of the December holidays.

              • Vader

                Ok thank you ill keep checking

  • AbnerDoon

    Read the comments in that thread even some of the long time folks are calling bs and questioning the future of the game. Not that they have many old forum goers left. :p


  • Shawn Hargrave

    still find the companion thing hilarious we will give you “your” companions back when we feel like it! we are looking into taking your ships away and giving them back at a later date as well as taking speeders away and other things as part of a new expac called the the eternal rehash!

  • Havik79

    Almost half way through September and still no roadmap, what a joke.

  • Sweet

    This looks like me when i’m asked how my project is advancing and i haven’t done shit yet.

  • How about info on the next raid boss you lazy fucks?

  • Paulo Gomes

    Oh dear, oh dear…

    I was going to comment on this, but I’m not.

    I am going to advise all you fellow readers to check Eban’s post. It REALLY sums up everything there is to know.

    Also AbnerDoon’s comment is right on the mark. Read the thread in swtor.com. Even the most patient players are losing their patience.

    It’s beyond pathetic at this point. May the Force be with us all, because BW certainly isn’t.

  • Cole

    Can’t get back the companions you want, can’t reject the ones you don’t, new ops take forever to drop, class no longer effects story, new stronghold decos only added in cm…

    • Cole

      Oh and forever grind to max out the 20 plus companion affection bs.

  • Jasken

    Just one disappointment after another.

  • Jep Fareborn

    They gotta save the ‘BIG News’ for the NYC Cantina Event. Give ’em a break and stop pestering them at least until the day after! ;p

    • Darth Gnaw

      well, if that was the plan I’m pretty sure he would have said so. They don’t generally miss opportunities to build hype for the cantina events.

  • DerpDude

    “Sorry guys….no roadmap…it got turned into road-kill…”

  • This sounds like they really don’t know what we can see in Patch 5.5

  • Lyr03

    One year, only 2 gods from the Machine, 1/3 operation. What do I expect ? Nothing.

  • Zasz

    Eric really mastered the art of writing alot but saying barely anything.

    He might aswell write “update 5.5 probably coming in october. No other news available”. Saying there are lots of things planned is no information.

    • Guest2

      It’s past time that wretch got fired just like the rest of the crew. He tries to make it seem like he is answering, taking us all for fools, seriously ffs…

  • Wayshuba

    I’m telling you folks, the announcement from EA that they are shutting down the title is coming soon.

    • d8xC0

      No. It’s late.

      People say it’s going down since 2012.

      • gua543

        F2P saved the game then. Who’s going to save it now, since they shoved a middle finger in the face of those players?

        • Mark Saunders

          they have innovated. it’s called Free to Pay. It’s where your free to pay for the game, if you’re a fool. Which I must be, as I pay. Their marketing is aimed at people like me. 🙂

          • Guest2

            Then why the fuck you keep paying, are you a fool as you say yourself???
            Am i dreaming, what kind of sheep gets blatatly manipulated like this?

            Shut down the game already ffs. And banish Musco and the devs from the videogame industry.

    • Vergansito

      Nahh that won’t happen EA is completely capable $$ of keeping those light servers running for many years ahead.

  • Meric Usco

    So much information.

    The will be an update, sometime in the future, we don’t know when.

    It will bring you some new stuff and changes. But we don’t know what it will be.

    Thank you, who would have thought…

  • E

    Lol, sorry for anyone who is trapped in the bubble.

  • Kaelin

    Wow!! Don`t get me wrong, I love that game, but was their post worth it? I think most of us can agree the answer is “no”. No hints about update, not useful information, only the fact we have to wait more time for that update and “the roadmap is still in progress”, shame on them with this one.

    • Sally Bowls

      It was unsatisfying. But I saw value in saying that the announced Sept patch has officially slipped to 10/10.

  • TheCulprit

    What would it take to save this game? Post realistic goals for making the game awesome…I really can’t think of anything, story-wise, for the game to go on. I mean the last 2 expansions brought the game right into a dead end.

    I’d suggest creating a new branch. Create SWTORII, new engine/etc – pick up after the original Class stories finish, maybe after Oricon. This time continue the Star Wars story. Intro a new class or two. Allow imports of old toon stats. Maybe a choose your adventure intro that allows you to say what happened to your toon between end of the class story and star of SWTORII.

    • John Kosto

      Actually, NO story is a dead end. There are endless possibilities of ideas that would remove the Eternal Fleet out of the picture. Here’s one that I can come up with right out of my ass in the laboratory on my break between the classes I teach:

      The Gods Of The Machine operation escalates, with the last Droid of these super advanced super powerful droids on Iokath being the last boss, which requires the whole Eternal Fleet to destroy, storywise. After the end of the operation, release a Flashpoint, with the story ending by completely annihilating Iokath in a massive space battle, while at the same time the whole Eternal Fleet is sacrificed, including the Gravestone (or not).

      Tough immoral decisions on part of the ex-character, ex-outlander, ex-alliance commander, ex-eternal emperor bring you in the limelight, where the whole galaxy blames you for the sacrifice of millions of lives, the ones operating the Eternal Fleet. You spend a few years in shame, as a disgraced ex-Hero, while both the Republic and the Empire spend all of this time rising up from the ashes, and once again fighting over the control of the galaxy. The Republic wants to restore piece, while the Empire wants to dominate everyone. You are asked to come back to action, as the only one who can help your side win this war, because of a very powerful artifact that you recovered while in exile. An artifact that holds the key to victory. Add some mystery, some action, some reconciliation with the old companions, take this game back to how it was during 1.X – 3.X, and just leave the whole KOTFE/KOTET mess in the history books.

      One can dream….

      • Mark Saunders

        I’d deffo go down the route of sith vs jedi again. We all know the alliance cannot last. It WILL be broken. Personally, I’d have each class story become part of this betrayal. Was it a traitor on the Jedi side joining the dark side? Was it the obvious Sith calling? Each class story tells a different path to putting where ToR’s story should be, Sith vs Jedi.

        The smuggler could be asked to do smuggling of all sorts of weird and abstract things… but who for?

        The trooper fights the ground missions finding out who gave what orders.

        The Jedi consular would try to stop the alliance breaking apart. Using politics and diplomacy, uncaring of who was to blame.

        The knight has to take down the ex-alliance traitors whoever they are.

        The bounty hunter would be asked to kill a Jedi. So… oh, wait, now he’s asked to kill some Sith… where’s this leading?

        The inquisitor becomes close to a politician on the dark side and he leads him to make certain planetary decisions in the interests of the Sith, but what’s his goal?

        The knight fights through wave after wave of enemies not knowing why they attack him until the truth is found out..

        Most, likely by the imperial agent who’s job it is to find out such betrayals for the alliance.

        I’d have that it was a Jedi who ultimately broke the fragile alliance, but it’s complicated. Both sides become a shell of their own teachings as cross-teachings took control. Ultimately, the Jedi council had to act, knowing full well that the alliance was breached and the Sith were scheming as Sith often do.


        • Dustil schmit

          I rather they go back further in time towards the rakata age in a new SWTOR or when the republic is being founded that might be interesting.

      • That sounds awesome. Make ur own MMO, I will sub!

        • Rob

          I second that! 😛

      • Dustil schmit

        I wonder if malgus or jadus are going to be used for this “order”

        • John Kosto

          Well Malgus is dead… so that can’t happen. None of it will happen anyway though, because Bioware will not save this game in any possible way, a shutdown looks much more likely.

    • HMH

      The only thing I see bringing back a significant amount of returning players is new classes and a mess of new playable races coupled wit

    • DualBlastersGuy

      I can’t see anything less than selling the license to another studio that,

      A) Has big MMORPG experience –and I mean successful, not “Free-to-Play before Year One is even half-done.”
      Maybe the guys who made Asheron’s Call a 17-year success? Maybe CCP Games? For the love of FSM, even Blizzard has got to be a better choice than this deluded embodiment of Dunning-Kroeger Effect…

      B) Knows what the sweet blue rat’s fuck it’s doing, and gives a sweet blue rat’s fuck about doing it even halfway competently, let alone anything like “well”.

      C) Studio implied in (A) and (B) then given at least a couple of years to do a ground-up re-build/re-invention of the game a la Final Fantasy XIV 1.0 —> 2.0

      D) SW; tOR is over in its current incarnation, and I strongly suspect that there will not be an independent entity called BioWare left within the next few years either, even if Anthem does well (which I just don’t see yet another pure RNG-loot-based, probably micro-transaction riven Destiny clone doing. BioWare hasn’t known how to do anything but clone –and even that half-assedly– in the last seven years with any understanding of what it’s cloning, so….yeah. Generic Destiny Rip-off With Cash-Shop #3,456,987 –pardon: Anthem— mostly forgotten in a year, I think, with BioWare soon to follow.

  • Fred Garvin

    Note to OP: you don’t need to give them excuses they have plenty already. Was Austin really impacted by Harvey at all?

    • Bakgrind

      As a life long resident of Austin I can honestly say that Harvey did not have any impact at all. As many others have said the majority of SWTOR staffing and creative efforts is being diverted to Anthem . Now what could be attributed to the hurricanes is the one that hit Florida because the most populated US server Harbinger hasn’t risen to standard population in about a week.

    • Paulo Gomes

      The only hurricane that hit BW happened in 2007. It was hurricane EA…

  • Mark Saunders

    soooo nada? Sounded like a politician giving an answer without giving an answer. Since when did players have to ask for information, especially when subs are involved? I don’t think any mmo has as much radio silence as ToR. A1 and 4 were fob-offs. 3 is just so vague. Only answer 2 seems acceptable considering the recent downtime mess.

  • Beastcave

    Soooo, they answered 1 out of 4 questions… Last time I was in school a 25% grade was an F.

    • AbnerDoon

      Maybe they grade on a curve. A really big ass curve. 😀

      • Dr-Waffle The-Third

        Theres no other classmates. So its still a 25%

  • Amodin

    1. We ran over that roadmap. We know where we are going, and it’s not straight ahead. However, we don’t know what we are going to do and scrambling for some kind of content, more CM ingenuity and yet another droid pet that looks like the others.

    2. “It was our plan…” really means that we got lazy. We call this one “Quality of our Game Updates”, but really the preview window is STILL busted.

    3. Nerf healing some more, so they can’t do DPS at all. “That’s our goal and know your role!” is our new class balance motto.

    4. No, you can’t have Jaesa. We know you wanted her back, but too bad.

    • AbnerDoon

      Answer 1 all I could hear was Talking Heads reading that. lol

      • Shawn Hargrave


      • Don Loco

        Spot on.

    • Paulo Gomes

      Too bad. Vette was worth a sub from me when she returned. Jaesa is the same case. I would gladly do a sub to have her back.

  • Jarjar

    This comment section gives me cancer…

    • John Dullebawn III

      I know of a good chemo center

      • Vergansito

        Ha ha, touché!

  • DualBlastersGuy

    So glad I unsubbed from this piece of shit train-wreck of a WoW clone.

    Against my better judgement, I gave them just one more go with Mass Effect: Andromeda –psychotically crazy SJW writers, openly racist developers, some chick’s face being tired, and all– because I really do love Shepard’s trilogy that much (probably close to 1500 hours in a dozen full-trilogy play-throughs by now).

    And CAD 50.00 along with 145 hours later, the final verdict is in:

    BioWare is forever dead to me.

    For the love of Mike, EA, take this lamed up old horse out back and shoot it. I mean, that’s what you do isn’t it?

    Put BioWaste and this cavalcade of incompetent morons out of our misery already, there are times when false hope really isn’t better than no hope.

    • Fred Garvin
      • DualBlastersGuy

        ^That^ stupid attempt at a cool-kid meme tells me that someone cares more than they want us to believe.


        • Fred Garvin

          It’s at least an 8/10. I have low faith in your rating system.

          • Dustil schmit

            It’s a three at most.

          • Big Mac

            Nah, Dual is spot on with your lame attempts at a meme…

          • Rance

            There’s only one memedragon m8.

            • Fred Garvin

              Nobody should aspire to be a memedragon unless they too like posting the same meme over and over and always irrelevantly.

        • Twoandahalfcents

          Fred Garvin. Once again substituting wit with random images.

      • blah

        idk what swj even means. may be a american/generational thing. SO yawn.

        • Big Mac

          Fred is just being his usual ass monkey self…

        • Dr. Mike Wendell

          Either Single White Jew or Social Justice Warrior. Take your pick.

      • TheCulprit

        The SJW is immune to all insults: scoundrel, parasite, swindler, racketeer, that runs off him like water off a raincoat. Call him a SJW, and you will note how suddenly he recoils:
        “I have been found out!”

        • HMH

          It’s funny how people that use terms like social justice warrior as an insult are themselves, with complete lack of any self awareness, defenders of what they perceive as social justice.

    • Whitedragon
  • Kubrickian

    It’s already leaked out that most of the office in Austin is working on Anthem. Any extra minutes they can manage they’ll do as a favor for the 2 man SWTOR team (Eric, Keith).

  • Guest

    Seriously. Why is there so much hate for this game? If you all hate it so much why do you waste your time posting here? Go play something else and comment on that game.
    I know I’ve heard it before “I can say what ever I want”. But really, is all this hate and venom constructive? What does it accomplish? I used to enjoy coming here and discussing the game but now it’s just too toxic here. Too bad.

    • John Kosto

      We also used to discuss the game here and enjoy our discussions, but there is no game anymore. So… it’s not even about having the right to say what everyone wants. It’s that there is NOTHING left to talk about.

      Where is this venom and toxicity you talk about? Apart from one specific post, there’s nothing else to justify your accusations. Just a lot of people that are disappointed with the current state of affairs. That’s all.

    • Guest2

      The game is a total and absolute dissapointment for veteran players, and becomes a dissapointment quickly for new players.

      The devs are among the most incompetent i’ve seen in the industry, and the community management is pathetic, with Musco throwing redeemable codes like someone who throws a piece of flesh to a hungry pack of dogs. That is probably the most disgusting i’ve seen in all my years as a gamer.

      The content comes very very slowly, and when it does come, it’s so buggy and poorly implemented that they often end up taking the servers down for hours. All the money and effort goes to the CM in a pathetic attempt to milk the proverbial cow.

      I love Star Wars, i truly do. Hence why i cant wait for this game to be shut down and dissapear already, maybe that way there will be a chance for something new to appear. It’s past time they unplug it, it’s just worthless and i do hate it with all my heart and cant wait for it to vanish once and for all, and all it’s crew to be fired immediately.

      • Guest

        Oh yea and i do hope Anthem flops real bad just like ME Andromeda did, that way maybe Bioware can be finally shut down too, failure after failure after another fail. I do hope that company fails so hard they have to dismantle it completely.

    • Paulo Gomes

      A number of reasons spring to mind for this “hate” you speak of. Let’s recap:

      – These guys continuously lie about schedules and intentions. The never again 1 year without Ops, now the latest “Op” being delivered until the end of the year probably not happening as two examples;

      – They deliver half the content other MMO’s are delivering, at twice the pace. And when they do deliver, it’s a bugfest. May I take you to December of 2014. On day 2 they dropped they last good expansion on our lap for Early Access… Full of game breaking bugs. And went on a one month vacation. But hell, at least in those days we had content;

      – They continuously ignore the majority of feedback the playerbase gives them. Many people were against the direction shift with KotFE (it seems plausible to say now with good reason), they ignored the gigantic shitstorm that Galactic Command caused on all the Internet Forums I know that follow TOR. A game management that ignores its playerbase is doomed to fail.

      Now I know what you might say next. “Why don’t you guys move on”?

      Because there’s nowhere to move on to, gaming wise. If we were talking about a Fantasy MMO, we would be spoiled for choice, wouldn’t we? Alas, this is Star Wars. And as I’ve said countless times here on this very Forum, these incompetents have the monopoly on all things Star Wars.

      It’s only fair that they also get the monopoly of the toxicity on all things Star Wars.

      Hope that was enlightening to you.

      • Perfectly said

      • Mikey Moo

        I agree with most things, but I don’t agree that shifting focus the way they did with the expansion was the wrong thing to do, or ignoring their players. Honestly there were a lot of people demanding more story, much of the “end-game/raiding/etc” community had long since abandoned the game, because newer games with focus on those things came out, and that community always jumps ship that way. Many people coming into the game that didn’t play it before, are coming into it seeing a BioWare tag and reading what the game always marketed itself to be in the first place, and they log on to experience story content, and they expect to see more when they’re finished with what is there. So while I will agree they do ignore their players in many areas, the story focus shift was the right call to make, it made them a lot of money, and earned them a lot of positive publicity at the time. Ultimately, I think they should be delivering more content overall, more frequently, but things always get increasingly slow as hell in between expansions and I don’t see that changing with this particular game, ever.

        • Paulo Gomes

          Maybe. I do know there were also a lot of people that were excited about the change. I remember very heated conversations here on Dulfy, where I was on the receiving end of some very heavy flack…

          But I don’t think it earned them a lot of money. And if it did at first, it cost them a lot of subs after. They tried to do something in the vein of what WoW did, and it didn’t work. Didn’t work for WoW either: a number of 5 million players reputedly left the game in that period. But I’m no WoW expert, someone else can come in and fill the blanks on that one…

          Bottom line: there is always space for innovation. They tried it, it didn’t work. WoW returned to the thing that made it number one in the MMO world, other successful MMO’s are doing the same. Story is by far the best aspect of this game. But the story they came up with on KotFE was a disappointment for me and a lot of people. It was NOT epic. A story that only makes sense if you play a Force using class. I’m not going to say it was all bad, it had its moments. But the overall outcome is very weak.

          Maybe it could have been the right move, had it been done properly. But we can’t really discuss what might have been. We can only discuss what was.

        • Rob

          I’ve said before that a lot of people were after KoTOR 3, so BW did the right thing in marketing to these people. Any business would be silly not to try and get a new customers on board.

          The problem came when they changed direction so radically that it came at a detriment to their existing customers. I think that is where the anger toward BW began, by all means go after more solo orientated gamers, but they have neglected their large portions of their original playerbase in doing so.

          BW didn’t show any loyalty toward to the customers that they already had and that breach of trust is ultimately something that is very hard to forgive.

    • Shawn Hargrave

      Whats there to be positive about

      • Acknowledge the good

        Everything you used to love about the game is still there. Music, dialogue, vistas, story. If you’ve finished the game then just move on. The constant criticisms only obscure what it still offers to new players.

        • Ben Gimson

          “If you’ve finished the game then just move on”

          Do you genuinely not see the issue, right there in your own response? You shouldn’t be -able- to ‘finish’ an MMO.

          • John Dullebawn III

            its called xpacs , ffs get with it

            • Ben Gimson

              You mean the xpacs with a couple hours worth of content at best? Those ‘xpacs’?

        • Wayshuba

          Just to be clear from my perspective – I usually pay $40-$60 in total for a game I can finish and then move on from.

          For a game, that costs you $180/year – you should honestly be getting a much content ANNUALLY as you would from those three games you would on from and you should never “finish” the game.

          With BW, you are paying $180/year for a $20/DLC worth of content…..

        • Shawn Hargrave

          If everything i loved about the game was still there id be playing still. The criticism is right on the money if you dont like what i post /shrug im not going anywhere and im not gonna be an EA tool saying oh yeah come play this rehashed pile of shit

    • DerpDude

      If I should take a guess, people are dissatisfied with the direction of the game since it went on lifesupport back in 2012….I know I am.
      Spoke my mind back in the 1.3 patch and promptly got banned from the forums…
      “When the ban is going to be lifted: Never”

      Even though the game was a WoW clone coated with a Star Wars paint, it still had some unique stuff and showed promise….5 years and the game has gone from beta to open beta and now to open alpha.

      At this point, being constructive is pointless….what all this hate accomplishes is to vent frustration for players who once loved the game.
      You could be a 5 (soon 6) year loyal subcriber with a terrific track record on the forums with pulitzer award winning material written there…even then, EAWare would still just flip you the bird.
      At this point EAWare doesn’t even bother about brownie points anymore, only the cash shop.

    • Vergansito

      This is the only place when there is no censorship and i’m glad about that, yes one or two trolls commenting here and there but at least there’s no Musco here banning people at will. If you cant’s stand that you should return to the official swtor forums.

    • Ben Gimson

      It’s called bitterness. Most of the people here are sick of watching BW ruin the game they used to love. Why waste effort being constructive when BW ignore everything the players tell them?

      • Vergansito

        Because they still have hope?, its not that easy to let it all go…some people can but not all. Personally i’m not sick of watching BW ruining the game, i have accepted they are incompetent people being fair i have fun watching all their stupid decisions.

    • Rick Sarahi Collins

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5b52edbba7de0230aacc35f581a2d3ad75d8e89aa5384530fee89da482f9da02.jpg I’m with you dude. in the words of Cap Jack Sparrow to all you haters ” you need to find your selves a girlfriend /( boyfriend ) mate”

      • Vergansito

        This is “haters” territory as you call them. They are gonna eat you alive here sparrow go back with Musco, he he

      • Dr. Mike Wendell

        Some of us have been engaged three times. Already been down that road.

    • John Dullebawn III

      Maybe becuase many of us have years of time invested into what was a great game, and we still hold a 1 % chance that this game could possibly climb out of this RNG, unbalanced hell hole its currently in.

    • TheCulprit

      it’s a jaded community of SWTOR lovers – and Dulfy is awesome. Now we come together and commiserate and get Dulfy some advertising clicks.

      Solidarity in knowing we’re not alone out here watching such an awesome game turn to suck before our eyes. It’s like a support group. Stop coming here and complaining about the complainers.

      • Paulo Gomes


        SWTOR Anonymous…

        “Good evening. My name is Paulo. I used to love SWTOR. But I’ve been on the wagon for over a year now. I don’t even log in to the game anymore. I still think of all the fun I had in the game, all the joy it used to bring me. I used to have friends playing with me. But that’s all in the past. I now see the game for what it is. And if you are reading this and think this is a great game, do not despair. We have a strong community of people to commiserate and have fun… While pointing out all the flaws of the game. Come to us, experience our 12 step program to turn you into a “hater”. Go on, do it. It’s a hell of a lot more fun than the actual game.”

        • John Kosto

          Bioware actually has implemented the 12 step program on SWTOR:

          1. Fallen – no new group content, weakest story since launch
          2. Chapters – each update is a single chapter of more weak story for 1 year
          3. Throne – more chapters! still weak story! no group content!
          4. Rehash – same planets, same foes, different name (uprisings)
          5. Repeat – level 8 more toons to 50, do all content again and again (DvL)
          6. Reskin – all items are now available in more colors!
          7. Delay – every update, every expansion, every update all delayed
          8. Debug – everything is working as intended, but also is an exploit
          9. Command – RNG crates for gear! Endless crap!
          10. Companions – screw that. They’re dead or missing. Here’s 39 new ones.
          11. Content – Minimal new GSF & PVP content for years, no new game mode
          12. Endgame – what endgame? 4 new Operation bosses in 36 months this December. The 2 Monoliths on Ziost, and the 2 Gods From The Machine. Since April 2015? Just 2 bosses in 30 months.

          When from December 2011 to December 2014, we had almost 50 bosses (The 9 main operations of this game – EV, KP, EC, TFB, SnV, DF, DP, Rav, ToS) with 46 bosses + Eyeless, Toborro, Xenoanalyst) and I am not even counting the World Bosses on the planets.

          4 fucking bosses against 50 in the same time.

          • Paulo Gomes

            Shit man… I hadn’t even realised that right up until now.

            4 fucking bosses against 50 in the same time indeed.

            And WE are the people that love to hate on the game… Yeah right, it’s our fault to expect them to work for a living…

            • John Kosto


              50 bosses in 3 years.
              4 bosses in the next 3 years.

              Again, I am not including the World Bosses in the first segment, because one could argue that they spent years developing the game prior to its release. But these 50 bosses were are released in updates and expansions., with the exception of Eternity Vault. So it’s still fair to include all 50 of them in that 3 year time span.

          • Rob

            Wish I was a sub still just so I could link your comment on their official forums. These facts about Operation bosses need to spread throughout the community.

            Seeing it written down has really made the reality hit home. There is no chance of a revival whilst BW are steering the ship is there? 🙁

  • Didier

    Sadly, it seems that in SWTOR class balance means nerfing the weak and buffing the strong 🙁

    see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUpk_qkqsZ8

  • The One Copper Bard

    Some friends of mine talked me into trying SWTOR again after a year hiatus as a preferred player. Oh my gosh has everything changed. Feels very bizarre. Least the PvP is still there-ish and getting Huttball more than what I used to lol.

    Saw on what they have on the Cartel Market. That one merc outfit going for a lot of CC’s. Used to get that at a decent drop rate out of so-and-so pack quite some time ago. Almost fell out of my chair at the price x_X

    • Darth Ji’inx

      Recently, they’ve been temporarily bringing back popular, old pack items for direct sale. That’s why they’re priced so high.

  • Elrandil

    This game no longer makes any sense from any class perspective. SWTOR is not some Star Wars based shooter with irrelevant story, but a game where story is the core. I remember a game like Guild Wars for which I had to pay about the sum of 1-2 months of subscription and every expansion pack cost no more than 25 EUR. Each expansion to Guild Wars was massive, new explorable maps, new group content, new skills, weapon and armour skins. They were delivering each expansion more or less once per year. In-game events consisted not only of additional quests and currency, but also had major towns decorated accordingly and were adding new play modes. Anything similar to that in SWTOR is rakhgul event. SWTOR players are not getting the quality and content for which they pay for.

  • Just to be clear, we are less than a month from the next proposed major patch and the only thing we know it will contain are class balance changes? This has officially become a shit show…

    • AbnerDoon

      It will also contain the fixes that were supposed to be in 5.4 that they really hope work this time. 😀

      • Like when I login on most of my toons and all their skill points are reset everyday? Fuck bioware for real…

        • Yeah or skills not working at all whenever the game feels like it…

    • Alan Lockwood

      Hey wait, maybe they have a HUGE surprise for us 😀

      • Darth Funky

        More Disappointment?

        • Bang bang


          • DualBlastersGuy

            YUGE BUGS!!
            YUGE, believe me, YUGE!

        • TheCulprit

          would that really surprise you?

    • Whitedragon
  • Vergansito

    and now you have become a complainer and a hater too. welcome to the club!

    • John Dullebawn III

      Yes welcome

    • lol ,im not a hater
      but i think they could do more for the game and that the last 2 years been not good for game.
      i still love this game

      • Vergansito

        Well i can pretty assure that the rest of the people “complaining” here as you call it still love this game too that’s why they are here discussing it, still you call them haters because they complain? i mean you were complaining too on your first post.

  • Anthony

    I tried to make a comeback but honestly i am done. Logged in last night and no one running ops, waited forever for FP. Loved the game, truly did. Make drastic changes to the game for the better or kill the game. This could have been one of the greatest game ever!

    • D_Pulse

      Change servers. I moved to Harb from JC and am running pug ops back to back. No wait times on FPs. Ranked was popping till 3 am last night.

    • Yusefudo

      thats why our guild in total whent to wow swtor is dead

    • Vergansito

      Some people say that even now Harbinger is a desert place, anyways stats indicate it has a little more activity than JC that’s for sure but only at prime time. Just bear in mind that you’ll gain more lag and the general chat is extremely toxic there.

      • Branovices

        Sounds tasty. Ice cream? Pie? Cake? Maybe it’s all of them.

        Oh. Desert.


      • Kubrickian

        JC is definitely dead now. Just pulled my last usable toon out of that server. Dead in a sense that the GTN has no crafters or selection of armor. Harbinger is definitely the last server I don’t count Ebon Hawk because they don’t really do content they just dress up and ERP in their strongholds. The foreplay they do on fleet to get people to go back to their strongholds is a huge turnoff.

      • Jasken

        Harbinger doesn’t have the population it once had. Prime time sees maybe 90 people on fleet pub side and 150 imp side. There was a time a year or two ago you saw multiple instances on fleet on both sides.

  • Theminiature Painter

    cant believe this game is still running, and how SLOW they are at updating

  • samryan@outlook.com

    Sick of ops and flashpoints they too long just to organise a group and you hardly every get anything worth while as the other group members group the best gear and leave you with shit and you only to get booted by idoits cause they want to rush.
    Swtor do us all a favours and just get rid of ops and flashpoints and give us more chapters, better storyline contents and a new class character get rid of the nonsense of constantly nerfing character claiming it is rebalancing them.

    • John Kosto

      I have never booted anyone in flashpoint and operation runs, but I wish I could boot you.

    • Paulo Gomes

      Well, if you get booted out of group content a lot… I don’t know, but have you considered it might be YOUR problem and not everyone else’s?

      Also: if you just want more chapters and stuff, no group content… Why the hell does it bother you so much to have BW nerfing classes? You can do that stuff in your slee… Sorry, in greens! While drooling all over your keyboard, and spamming the “1” key. IF your comp doesn’t finish the chapter by himself.

      You seem to have a few problems mate. But I doubt a change in the game’s orientation is going to solve them…

    • Errtai

      From your comment I understand that you like watching every cutscene during flashpoints. You’re the minority then. Accept this and accept the fact that 99% of the players just like to spacebar cutscenes, avoid trash mobs as best as possible, kill bosses, get loot and get out. After 6 years, I don’t think you will find many people who will enjoy Taral V, never spacebar cutscenes, kill all adds because why not, and enjoy the scenery.

      You should group up with people who like things slow as you do. You may group with guildies or search for like-minded players on the fleet; something like “LFG for a random FP but NO rush and NO spacebar” will do.

      Also please don’t forget that this is an MMO. Meaning group content is the center of it. The moment you get rid of fps and ops’ as you suggest, it won’t be an MMO. People like single player games, sure, but those games don’t charge you $15 every month.

      A successful MMO should have both story and enough group content to keep everyone active and playing.

  • samryan@outlook.com

    No wonder this game is now dying bring back the group contents was the worst mistake swtor dun in the last 6 months going back to the days of 2.7 version where flashpoints and ops killed this game.

  • Sam Ryan

    The main reason why guilds are dying off are cause of the way concern guilds are run and the way newbies are treated.

    • Eban

      Wooo 3 stupid comment posts in a row.
      You’re on a roll mate.
      Can’t wait for the fourth, what will it be?
      “More ghost town servers please, sick of seeing other players online”
      “more reskins please, me love reskins”

      • Paulo Gomes

        “More little stupid droid pets as subscriber rewards. We don’t have nearly enough of them.”

        “Give us the ability to summon comps on the move! Yes, that’s a great idea!”

        Oh damn…

        • Errtai

          That “replay the whole game again” thing last summer was probably the worst thing happened in TOR’s history.

          • yes it was,
            it also broke my patience and last hope i had in with the devs. it was the worst thing they ever made.

            • Paulo Gomes

              A slap in the face of every veteran TOR player. TOTAL disrespect for the people that supported this game, some of them from day one…

          • IncuBB .

            Well, if BW would allow to play my character story (main story) again – i’d play it again with pleasure.
            Unfortunatly the only story i can replay is shitty kotfe. Which i HATE!

  • Zallestar

    I remember when I began playing this game back in 2012. I started a Sith Warrior and was instantly hooked, and even though it took me 1-2 months to realize you couldn’t skip all the side quests (as this was my first real MMO experience), I enjoyed every second of it. A year later, I maxed my Warrior and started an Inquisitor, which by far became my favorite class in the entire game. The Lightning DPS tree led to me running around Belsavis with my Thundering Blast going “UNLIMITED POWER!”, and the healing spec made me feel like some sort of evil witch doctor. Once my Inquisitor was fully leveled, I did end-game content for hours on end, and when I couldn’t be bothered to do FPs/Ops, I’d go to the fleet and roleplay with friends until 3 AM–often on a school night.

    I’ve paid a ridiculous amount of money for this game, $810 just on membership fees alone (there’s no way I could find a number for the endless cartel coin purchases and gift cards I redeemed–yes, I was a Cartel whale and I feel pretty bad for it in hindsight). I’m happy I couldn’t ever find a way to clock my game time because it would certainly be around 4-6 months in total. Honestly, I thought it was all worth it. I was so immersed by SWTOR that I started memorizing dates, biological data, and other pieces of lore that only made me feel further entrenched in the story.

    I remember the feeling after I’d spend days or sometimes weeks grinding dailies out in order to get a rare armor set, mount, or lightsaber in order to fulfill my vision of the ultimate Sith Lord. There were days when I would just travel to Korriban and sit around in my favorite Command Throne and watch all the Sith Acolytes run around dueling each other and dying to the K’lor’slugs that had infested the planet. Occasionally I’d help someone out with Red Machine or Armed and Dangerous, walking through the entire heroic area and curbstomping everything in my path (the looks of the Acolytes were priceless).

    Then, once the level adjustment updates dropped, and KotFE came out, I started playing less than I usually did. However, I could understand why these updates happened (level adjustment wasn’t nearly as bad as I thought it would be, and I could see why BioWare would want to go back to a KOTOR-esque theme–especially when I hit end-game Odessen and I’d get those wide screen text windows). Even though I didn’t like the updates personally, I was okay because there was a fairly decent chunk of the community that did.

    Then KotET came out, and everything pretty much went downhill (maybe it already had gone downhill and I hadn’t really paid that much attention–I was always running old flashpoints/roleplaying). I thought I would see my beloved Jaesa and Khem again (maybe they were re-added in those companion missions–I never really bothered to check anyways), but I didn’t. My all-powerful Sith Lord slowly started to feel like a loner, due to both my companions being gone and the community pretty much being dead after the first week. Once I finished KotET, I finally realized that my Emperor–the Sith Lord that my character would die for in a heartbeat, the ultimate power in the Galaxy–was no more than a bipolar person with very large family-related issues. Even though I was *extremely* upset with Vitiate’s (I’m never going to say that horrible new name) remodeled strategy, I honestly didn’t care. All I wanted was to join Vitiate in his new conquest of the Galaxy, and rebirth the Sith Order and destroy the Jedi. If there was an option to let him kill my character (even if it was permadeath), I’d have taken it at this point (I’m not even going to deny the fact that I’m fanatically Imperial). But no, I was forced to kill him. I honestly cried when I struck down my inspiration through all my years playing SWTOR, but I knew it was for the best. The best Sith Lord in history was killed by EA’s horrible storytelling.

    I must admit, though, that even with all the BS the game fed me, I was still loyal to it. I came back and played for about 2 hours, only to realize that the memories of 5 years prior were just that–memories. At this point, Dulfy (and even the SWTOR forums now) are basically all about BioWare’s absolute complacency regarding their community, and to be honest I don’t disagree. The game I practically worshiped as a young teenager is now (in my opinion) the poster child for a game taken over by corporate greed. There is no longer any hope in my eyes–these fleeting updates are becoming farther and farther apart, and I think the Deep Core would be easier to navigate than these convoluted, lie-filled road “maps”. Once this is posted, I’m going to uninstall this game (and probably feel horrible for the next week for doing it–but it’s for the best). If this company can no longer take suggestions from its paying community (which I feel it’s reached this point already), then if you have any shred of individuality left, you should do the same thing I did. Hopefully they will learn a lesson from all of this. Bye SWTOR.

    [Shoutout to Wayshuba for helping me realize how much money I fed to this Sarlacc Pit of a game.]

  • John Kosto

    To the person who removed their post for no reason?

    1. You can definitely go back to your bank account statements (or your mom’s?) and calculate very easily how much money you have spent on Cartel Coins. Any way that you chose to pay for them has to be electronic money transfer, so that means that you can trace it. I would NOT do that if I were you, because I actually find money spent on Cartel Coins wasted money.

    2. You can also trace exactly how many hours you have played, unless you have deleted characters that you have played a lot with. Login with every toon you have played, type /played and it will give you a time. Add all the times, and there you have it.

    3. Vitiate/Valkorion/Emperor/Tenebrae is a pretty cool entity in the Star Wars universe (he basically kind of founded the Sith Empire) but he is in no way cooler than Darth Sidious or Darth Vader. Darth Sidious is the only Sith Emperor who was ruled the ENTIRE galaxy, and Darth Vader is a cyborg with black metallic body parts and suit, has the voice of James Earl Jones, a red lightsaber, and Force chokes admirals to death for fun. Also, the most powerful Force user in Star Wars. Ever. So. Many. Midichlorians.

    4. I think you probably became a tad too obsessed with the game. As in, maybe 10 times more than you should have.

    • Paulo Gomes

      Kosto… Don’t tell me you used the midichlorians line. Shame on you.

      Hey, that’s a good one.

      Look, since so many people (actually not that many anymore) acuse us of only complaining and not discussing the game (it’s not like I see ANYONE discussing how great the last Dailies area or the new Strongholds are, but hey), let’s have it:

      Who is the greatest Sith Lord of all time? Or at the very least, maybe not the greatest or most powerful, but just the one you like the most, for no particular reason other than that’s the way you like it?

      Mine is Darth Bane, the guy who invented the Rule of Two.

      I’ve shown you mine. Now show me yours.

      • John Kosto

        Darth Bane is VERY high for sure, if you have read his novels. Freaking amazing trilogy. But since you picked him, I will have to go with someone else. I am gonna go with Darth Sidious, but not just his stories as shown in the movies and the Clone Wars tv show. Also the book Darth Plageuis (which also gives us insight to the few previous Sith Lords before Palpatine, Tenebrous, Venamis, and Plagueis, and they are all cool).

        But Darth Sidious was just something else. His masterplan span across more than 50 years and he is the only one who actually fulfilled the Sith Grand Master-Plan, so respect to him for that.

        • Frebu

          He really didn’t. He took control of the the Republic but that was only a portion of the galaxy(smaller even then what is playable in swtor base) and it lasted a whole……..what 20, 30 years in total? It was pretty pathetic honestly in the long run, he spent 50 years taking control of an existing power and couldn’t even hold onto it for just as long. But then again I think any Sith following the rule of two is pathetic, always standing on the brink the loss of everything. When Sidious and Vader died much of the knowledge they held died with them(no matter how many times sidious was resurrected in the expanded universe by unimaginative authors)

          • John Kosto

            He took control of the Galaxy. That’s how it’s presented. Whether he controlled every single life on every single planet, is irrelevant. He was still the most powerful and most dominant Sith Lord of Galactic History, even if it was for 20 years. That’s still 20 years more than anyone else.

            • Frebu

              A millennium of planning for one darth to blow his load for 20 years worth of ruling, totally worth the complete destruction of the sith……….just saying in the grand scheme of things a couple years of power doesn’t make you the best……….it kinda makes you one of the worst. Sidious got lazy and overconfident and it ended the true line of sith knowledge..

            • HMH

              Idk, nobody thinks of Alexander or Napoleon taking over the entire world anymore even though that’s how things were presented at the time…

            • Paulo Gomes

              And at the same time, he did what Bane intended to do, but never could. In THAT sense, I guess your Sith Lord is superior to mine. Even if mine invented the damned Rule.

              Damn… Got outsmarted by Kosto… AGAIN…


          • Paulo Gomes

            It was not only that he took control of the Republic. It was more like he wiped out the Jedi. Well, most of them. And you have to understand the reasoning behind the Rule of Two. For that, you have to understand that the Sith culture itself is anathema to uniting against a common enemy. The notion of “self” is more important than the notion of community. That was always the problem with the Sith Empire: too many factions fighting for power among themselves. Acolytes being pitted against acolytes, apprentices against apprentices, Lords trying to murder someone on the way to Darth, Darths plotting bigger conspiracies to ascend to the Dark Council.

            TOR does a great job at showing this. Yes folks, I’m going to PRAISE the game for once. Both the Sith Warrior and the Sith Inquisitor class demonstrate this problem. You are always the pawn in some plot between higher ranking Siths. Even other classes show this: the Imperial Agent story shows how much of a power struggle is going on between the Sith and the military…

            Darth Bane saw all this. He saw how the Sith Empire was annihilating itself from the inside. All that power (UNLIMITED POWAAAAA!!!) squandered away in petty struggles…

            It does have its drawbacks, like you so cleverly pointed out. But ultimately it was the most efficient way to defeat the Jedi, and take over the Republic…

            • John Kosto

              Well Paulo, perfectly said. The Rule of Two was great, and it led to constant strengthening of the Sith Order, which led to Darth Sidious basically destroying the entire Jedi Order. And it didn’t even happen in a full war scale massive battle. It happened from within. It happened after 40 years of plotting and planning, with the absolute betrayal. From the shadows, not out in the open.

              30 years of absolute power is still 30 years more than anyone else in the Star Wars universe. No other Emperor or Sith in general had ever seized control of the Galaxy. I don’t know why these guys are trying to diminish which part of the galaxy Darth Sidious controlled, but he controlled pretty much the entire galaxy, except from some sytems in the Outer Rim and the Unknown regions. That’s a pretty big deal if you ask me. That’s still hundreds, if not thousands, of systems. Why do some people have the impression that he controlled like 5 or 10 planets?

        • Paulo Gomes

          “If you have read his novels”…

          Now you’ve hurt my feelings, John. You really have…


          • John Kosto

            That was a general “you”. I know that you specifically Paulo, must have read the novels. Otherwise you wouldn’t have picked him.

        • Rob

          Have to agree that Film and TV don’t really do Sidious justice. And as I’m a massive fan of the ‘Rule of Two’ implented by everyone’s favourite Bane, the fact that Sidious managed to rule the galaxy and almost eradicate the Jedi is testament to his cunning and power.

          The problem for me arises that Yoda and Obi-Wan need to be alive for the Original Trilogy when in reality it would make more sense story-wise for them to have been constantly hunted by the Empire which means that Obi-Wan would never be able to reside in Tatooine for 20+ years under the Kenobi name.

          So because of the poor story in the Prequel Trilogy I don’t think Sidious can be considered the greatest Sith Lord, mainly as he allowed too many important Jedi to remain at large. Not his fault though, just poor story telling IMO.

          • Ben Gimson

            Tbf, Kenobi probably didn’t use his surname when/if he visited any of the major settlements on Tatooine.

            • Rob

              I get that, it’s just Obi-Wan’s presence on Tatooine doesn’t really serve any purpose except to push him into his New Hope starting position. Vader thinks his child is dead, doesn’t know about twins. So Obi-Wan staying on Tatooine actually puts Luke in more danger as if he is discovered, Vader and Sidious would ask questions as to why he chose to hide out near the Lars farm. They’d investigate and discover the uber force sensitive Luke.

              • Ben Gimson

                Mhm, suppose one could argue he’s there for when Luke is ready for training, but who knows. I don’t think GL put much thought into details like that when he made the films.

              • TheCulprit


          • John Kosto

            Wow, what do you mean the poor story in the prequel trilogy? I can understand (though I don’t agree) how some people criticize the dialogue or the visual effects… but the story is freaking great. Much more elaborate, meaningful, logical and complicated than the original trilogy. And maybe some people don’t like that, but that doesn’t make it poor. It’s pretty damn well thought over story.

            • Rob

              Perhaps I misspoke John. I agree that overall the outline plot of the Prequel Trilogy is good. Possibly Phantom Menace is the best story-wise of any of the Star Wars films. If Lucas had cast a better kid for Anakin, dialled back the cheesy dialogue and got rid of Jar Jar, it would have been a good film. Same goes for Attack of the Clones, good story and probably the best film of the PT in terms of character development and relationship building. I have nothing good to say about Revenge of the Sith though, for me it’s just the worst. So many disappointing ends to stories that had so much more potential.

              I will have to disagree that the PT story is better than the OT story though. Although to be honest I’ve read many far better stories that the films really don’t represent the Star Wars Universe to me anymore.

            • TheCulprit

              I have never heard anyone defend the Prequels. I think the three of them are the three worst movies ever made. You can choose the order. Red Letter Media has a funny take down of all three, each “review” is as long as the movie.
              I pretend they don’t exist. I have the originals, and KOTORs, Jedi Academy, some of the novels. Prequels were nothing more than a money grab and do not fit Lore-wise with the rest of the Star Wars mythology.

              Midichlorians?!? LOL

              • John Kosto

                Good for you. You obviously did not understand the movies, it happens. Not everyone can think about what is actually happening in the movies, some people watch them for the lightsabers and for how evil and cool Darth Vader is. So that’s still ok.

              • TheCulprit

                you’re pretty funny. Pretty sure I went at it with you once before on this site.
                I think you were the Political “Scientist.”

                98.97% of people mock/ridicule/disparage the prequels. But I guess you are among the 1.03% of the Star Wars fans that “really understands” what’s going on. (you’re so smart!)

                Lucas doesn’t even understand what’s happening in the movies. He started filming before he even finished the first draft of the script. It was an incoherent mess. I’m glad some people enjoyed it – probably the ones who like all the CGI and lightsabers – but trying to pass yourself as really understanding something that was just too deep for dumb masses, that’s just too funny. You must really love you.

              • John Kosto

                Made up (and completely inaccurate) numbers, lies about George Lucas and what he did, subjective opinions phrased in a pompous way only to impress, and projection. Very typical when someone wants to come up with arguments when they don’t have any. But I can try to do the same:

                “The movie is awesome and annihilates everything you have ever loved. The script is very deep and impressive, and everything makes sense, it’s just that you don’t understand it because you behave like a
                professional “cinematographer”. I don’t really mind that some people didn’t enjoy it, because the movie was a coherent brilliance. But you can try to pass your negative opinion as something that is objectively true, that’s amusing. You must be in love with yourself”

                Well actually mine makes a lot more sense, it’s not far from the truth.

                PS. I am an actual scientist, not a political scientist, whatever that means in your head.

              • TheCulprit

                you’re right, anyone can say anything. Opinion is like that. Except I have evidence – the movies themselves. The suck was so strong Lucas sold the IP.

                Projection: is what you’re doing.

              • HMH

                98.97% of people mock/ridicule/disparage the prequels.<— this is projection FYI

              • TheCulprit

                this is hyperbole – a rhetorical device, using exaggeration to make a point.

                Projection is accusing others of what you’re doing. just FYI. Like accusing me of trying to be edgy or phrasing things pompously, like you two are doing.

                You guys lovers? I’m been down this before with both of you. Unless you’re a sock account liking your own comments or something.

              • HMH

                nah man I guess we both just like to get down with the same kind of idiot

              • HMH

                you really dont get that you are projecting your opinion onto 98.07% of the whole world? I think you do

              • TheCulprit

                you do not understand what Projection means.
                you do not understand what Hyperbole means.
                Go back to school. Stop calling people much smarter than you idiots.

              • HMH

                When you quit projecting your personal negativity onto all of Star Wars fandom with hyperbolic percentages I will absolutely stop.

              • HMH

                You should get out more, make more friends, there’s tons of people that don’t let their edginess ruin the prequels for them.

                Ask any Star Wars fan under the age of 25, they won’t even know what you’re talking about.

              • TheCulprit

                Edgy? What makes me edgy? I guess I’m too old to know what that means.

            • i like the prequels

        • TheCulprit

          Midichlorians destroyed Star Wars lore – everything Yoda taught Luke to become a Jedi was about devotion, perseverance, study, meditation, seriousness, sacrifice. “Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.”

          After prequels a Jedi’s power is based on a biological accident. Yoda didn’t know what he was talking about, apparently. Crude matter is all important.

          originals: Force Power = training, dedication
          prequels: Force Power = Midichlorian count, genetics

          Difference between working your whole life and amassing a fortune, vs inheriting a fortune. Night and Day. I couldn’t think of anything to destroy Jedi/Sith mythology more.

          • John Kosto

            There is nothing accurate about this. When you explain the nature of something, that does not make it less unique and special and magic. If anything, it adds to the magic of it. This is a beautiful universe that we live in, and being able to observe micro-organisms with microscopes and the fabric and the structure of the universe with telescopes, makes it even more beautiful to our eyes. Adding knowledge does not remove beauty, it does the opposite.

            So the Force is still a mystical thing, it’s still an energy of all living beings, and the fact that it owes its existence to these micro-organisms called midi-chlorians, does not remove anything from the beauty and the magic of The Force.

            In every part of the Star Wars universe and its stories, there has always been the concept of being “strong in the Force” and not everyone could do it. It was never a question of working hard to be able to move rocks and throw lightning. You could get better at it with practice, but you needed to be strong in the Force already. Nature & Nurture. Just how real life is, you know.

            • Paulo Gomes

              Shit man, that was beautiful. Poetic even! In a nerdy but awesome kind of way.

              It actually brought me to another one of my loves: guitar playing. And it’s pretty much as you say. You need the talent, but you have to work hard at it. REALLY hard. I used to practice for 8 hours a day. Sometimes even more. But it was a labour of love. It wasn’t a grind, to put it in terms we TOR players know VERY well lol.

              Music is mystical as you say, but the desire to improve does not make it less so. Rather the opposite.

              GREAT post. At least this miserable game is an excuse to get positively surprised by these little conversations of ours…

      • Rob

        Currently liking Darth Krayt, as we all love a bit of fallen Jedi. Favourite of all? Since you’ve taken Bane, I’ll take Exar Kun. I only wish we’d have got a few novels about Exar Kun & Ulic Qel-Droma and that Era before Disney got their hands on the EU 🙁

    • gog

      Regarding bullet point #3:
      I know this is very much a matter of personal taste, but up to Ziost, I genuinely felt Vitiate was the coolest villain in SW, better than both Sidious and Vader. A lot of that had to do with much about him still being unknown, but the things we did know made him far more dangerous and harder to put out than an other SW villain.
      Sidious ruled the galaxy sure, but his knowledge and power in the force wasn’t near Vitiate who was close to achieve true immortality and end the galaxy (If it hadn’t been for that pesky Jedi/Sith/Smuggler/Bounty Hunter/Agent/Trooper). Vader was really powerful but without the brains of Sidious & Vitiate.
      This was before the dumbass KotFE/KotET story lines which made him far less intriguing since it was both a poor idea and poorly executed. Also, Valkorion is such a piss-poor name, sound more like a name for a morbidly obese nobleman rather than the most cunning, dangerous and powerful villain in TOR.

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  • Foff

    Hmm,a discussion with no sticks and stones,i can do that too.I’m not a big fan of the Star Wars universe,saw all movies but only liked the last one;really liked,and there i’m a fan,the animation movies and series,except for the last one they made:Star Wars Rebels;it’s to much “computerised” made…And,for those of you who like the animation part of the SW franchise like i do,if you didn’t yet,you should watch the Clone Wars produced by Genndy Tartakovsky (Samurai Jack…).That said,this is my preferred character from SWTOR:
    Darth Marr
    The character as presence and impact on you from it,you can almost feel and see his power by the way he walks and moves,and his masked voice,damn,it gives me goose bumps lol.
    Go back and remember this https://youtu.be/dykZj0-WftY
    And guys,keep in mind that,opinions are like assholes, everybody has one 😉
    P.S.-to xLetalis from who the video is,hope you can forgive me for using your video “wargamerbro”,and thank you 🙂

    • Asteron123

      Most illuminating.

      • Twoandahalfcents

        Urgh! Sorry, but Tartakovsky’s clone wars is horribly overrated.

        Ugly designs. Phoned in voice acting. And ridiculous degrees of Force-wankage.

  • Rompe Himself

    Ooooooooooooh boy, I see I am right yet again about the bullshit from Keith and Eric. Notice Eric hasn’t posted anything since starting the shit storm? Where oh where is the content I asked in a previous thread. Now it seems I have to ask the BW Austin defenders (Even they don’t come out to defend this game much anymore), where oh where, is the communication gone? It seems to me fucktard Eric has gone right back to his old ways as it was under Ben, and Keith has scaled right back in communicating. And when they do, it is nothing more then empty platitudes and believing their own bullshit or cherry picking threads to comment on to make it look like they are in the forums.

    It is truly astounding how useless these dumb bastards are. They release next to no content all year (despite Keith when he came on board saying how many exciting plans and events were lined up) and STILL cannot write up a wall of text and call it a road map. Still not a peep from them about how Gods will not be finished this year, still not a peep about a great many things the player base is screaming at them for like returning companions or bug fixes. We are half way past September and yet here we are, more excuses, more talk that they are focusing on quality (Someone should remind Keith to look at BW Austin’s ENTIRE patch track record to see what a joke he has become saying that – BW had issues with patches weeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllllllllllllll before 5.4 ffs) and content that only BW Austin considers exciting.

    Every MMO out there can tell you many months in advance what is coming down the pipeline. Even shitty no name MMO’s can put out a road map. Someone bitched about STO before. Compare the content that game STILL gets compared to SWTOR. Compare how often they get patches to SWTOR. SWTOR is in maintenance mode. They are just milking it for all they can while putting into the game the barest minimum content to keep people subbed. I mean let’s face it, if they totally stopped, who would bother subbing. At least this way, BW Austin can trick some die hards into subbing until the end.

    Lest I forget class nerfs – oooooooooh man, that is the proof right there that they do not listen to anyone.

    It truly makes you wonder what the hell they are doing with all their time. If they haven’t even worked out what is going to be in 5.5 and that was meant to be released originally end of September, how the hell does this company even function? And looking at that thread on swtor.com, it seems much of the feeling mirrored here on Dulfy is now in full swing on the official forums. I think except for the few desperate gullible who still drink the BW Austin kool-aid, I think it is safe to say that not even God/Allah/Buddha/Q/Your personal Deity can save SWTOR anymore while it is in the hands of BW Austin. I think 2018 could be the year that sees the end of SWTOR (the remaining player base) if 2017 is anything to go by.

    SWTOR deserves better then this. BW Austin should be burnt to the ground and never be allowed to dev for any game, not even a mobile app.

    Oh and Paulo, I wouldn’t rate him the greatest but I still love the idea of a Sith lord who didn’t give a fuck about other sith lords and was for all intents and purposes, the vampire boogeyman among Sith & Jedi alike – Darth Nihilus!!

    • Vergansito

      How the hell does this company even function? I thihk that’s a pretty simple answer, EA has many games and their Star Wars priority title right now is Battle Front II. Being a billionare company they can mantain swtor on life support till 2023, no problem. It’s a shame of a game right now.

    • Shawn Hargrave

      look at battlefront 2 and mass effect the new one thats where tors budget went. EA has long moved on from tor. What kind of a company releases only part of a raid? How about taking companions away and giving them back as “new content” lolz I dont know how anyone can take tor seriously. If they dont give a shit about their own game why should i? or you

    • Kubrickian

      I think you are wrong about Bioware defenders. They went the way of the dodo around 4.0. It’s especially sad to see them claim a hurricane that did not affect their part of Texas as the reason an announcement of a plan was to be made. An announcement that will be significantly altered by the time January rolls around and they have nothing to show for it.

    • Meelis S

      Its all coming down to this. Keith cant say anything regarding long term plans because there are NON. They work and live on monthly basis. If things go south too fast they know EA pulls the plug and it will be done.
      So many are not looking in big picture. Why do new ops bosses separately? Until you face the truth and realize because they may run out of money from EA they cant do long term plans with such a small crew who is doing pve content. Remember half of whole team at least doing Cartel market stuff. They did all they could with 4.0 already with alliance recycling all old content. Whats the next step? Well nothing much left. Lower the monthly fee hoping bigger playersbase to return. But even that wont help with 5.0 changes and grind. So its kinda closed circle loop but i call it dead loop. Its momentum will run out fast.

      • Rob

        Dead loop, a good definition of the game’s current direction. I think we’ve hit the tipping point now, too many seem to be seeing the truth and have stopped believing the lies. It was bound to happen eventually, I thought it might have happened sooner (toward the end of 4.0) but like you say, silly CM gimmicks have allowed them to trudge on for another year.

        Paulo said it well. There’s no f2p card to play anymore and essentially no content, so only one place it can eventually go. Such as a shame as I still believe this game has massive potential. But there needs to significant investment for there to even be a chance of a future and if EA didn’t invest during the brighter days (1.0 – 3.0), why would they invest now?

  • Zallestar

    Regarding John’s comment: I have no idea why my post was deleted (I sure as hell didn’t do it), but there’s no way I’m even going to bother reposting it. I definitely was obsessed with the game, and that is why I posted in the first place–to show that even the die-hard fans are pretty much done with this game.

    • John Kosto

      I think you should post it though. It was a beautiful post.

      • Paulo Gomes

        It was. I was in the process of replying to it, but was unable to.

    • Rob

      Was it deleted because Disqus designated spam? If so, it should be on your homepage still. For some reason Disqus regards a long post with lots paragraphs as spam despite the grammar being correct. Copy and paste it, take out the paragraph breaks and it should be fine 🙂

    • Paulo Gomes

      But that’s what we were: die-hard fans. Man, you should see our posts around the time Oricon came out. Dare I say it doesn’t get any more fanboy than that.

      My friend Kosto here called my attention to a fact I was oblivious to, even if it was right before my eyes. in the time span we got 50 Bosses spread around the many Ops we had in the golden period of TOR, we got 4 bosses instead. 4 bosses in 36 months man.

      Thx Kosto. I’m stealing your lines here buddy. And calling it “new content”…


      • Rob

        As long as you don’t hide your comments behind a RNG grind fest I’ll be happy :O

        • Paulo Gomes

          Hey man… I’m just happy to be able to steal lines from my friends to spice up my comments. Still waiting for that lawsuit from the pinnacle thing mate…

          • Rob

            Hehe, I’d forgotten about that. However since it’s you Paulo I’m willing to let it slide. Pretty sure I’ll be stealing some of your quotes in the future though 😛

            • Paulo Gomes

              Please do mate, please do. I only steal from the best. If you steal from me I’ll take it as a huge compliment.


              • John Kosto

                aaaawwww <3

    • Errtai

      I was so die-hard, so that when people started to leave the game in masses after 4.0, I refused to do so and stayed. I buried my head in the sand. But 5.0 was that famous nail in the coffin.

      I am still around though, checking Dulfy almost on a daily basis. Still waiting for that update that will make me return. But instead I find myself reading about GW2’s new expac or BDO’s latest patch notes :(.

      • Rob

        Same here mate and for most who I was guilded with. If it wasn’t for Galactic Command we’d probably still be rolling on 3-5 year Operations through sheer routine rather enjoyment. I believed BW’s outright lies for a brighter future for far too long, mainly because at the time I wanted to believe them. I wanted it to be the game I believed it could become so badly I blinded myself to the facts.

        I still pop here to Dulfy whilst I’m at work to see if there’s news that BW are gonna get their act together, but let’s face it, every week it’s only the Cartel Market that seems to get any attention from BW, the rest of the game has been allowed to fall in a state of disrepair where it will take huge investment of time, money and imagination to save. None of which I think BW either can actually deliver on.

        • Meelis S

          CXP system was final draw for many. Alliance already was huge grind enough. CM gets attention because thats only thing keeping this ship floating. Cant blame them for doing it. But you cant decive old players for too long only focusing on new fluff and 10% for actual content

          • Rob

            Oh I agree that the CM is probably keeping the lights on at BW Austin. That’s why they’ve gone the direct sales route and put popular items on there. Although I’ll have to disagree on whether they are to blame. For far too long they’ve neglected game content, so they fact that they need the CM sales to save them week to week is because of their own shortsightedness.

            I had some really good times playing for a long time, perhaps there is a chance for a future, but it’s gonna take a minor miracle for the tide to change. Until then I will reminisce fondly about SWTOR in the form it was until 4.0 as it’s a different game now.

            • Meelis S

              There is no chance for future with this game for simple reason. To break out this closed loop they need a lot money to INVEST into NEW huge content update and reduce grind especially RNG element. EA wont do that because they got burned 2 times already with this game. First on relese and second time after f2p model change.
              Thats why this game is done. I played this game since beta and i had too great times and fun guild runs. I even did nightmare modes mostly when i left end of 2016. New players are not even close to try Nightmare modes properly. They just need to adapt and play a lot to even beat Hard mode ops. Old player are leaving so group content is doomed and whats left is single play command crate opening journey…. Problem is that what you will do with all that end game gear if you finally get it? No one around left to group up to do the content this gear was ment for.

              Before 5.0 you always got at least some gear for effort if guild was properly managed for each run and everyone geared towards harder ops mode. It was fun. While doing so all excessive gear was transfered to alts to keep alts fun to play and also level up and fill missing spots if needed. Even sometimes just to play other class in endgame opses for a while. Now its all dead thanks to rng. I’m not even bothering to comment the loot you get now from opses its not same anymore. Still need to grind command ranks and boxes to upgrade and so on.

              Game is dead from multiplayer aspect very soon.

              • Rob

                I couldn’t agree more with all this, and I don’t have much to add, it just about perfectly sums up endgame right now 🙁

      • Bakgrind

        I’ve been gone from the game for 2 years now. And I said to myself when I did leave that the only way I would return to the game is when SWTOR gets added to the Origin’s Access . I feel that $5 a month would be a very fair price as the game no longer lends itself to be a “Premium” service to me.

        • Rob

          Since the MMO part of the game has essentially been marginalised so badly over the last few years I think they should just do away with subscription completely at this point and do an xpac every 6-12 months. A subscription just doesn’t make any sense when you look at the amount of ‘content’ they trickle out.

          And let’s face it, hardly anyone who is left playing is there for the MMO anymore, everyone is there because it’s Star Wars and they want story. They may as well just bite the bullet now and deem this KoTOR 3, that’s what they’ve been driving toward for a couple of years. 🙁

          • Paulo Gomes

            I’m not sure about the KotOR 3 part there, but it is pretty obvious by now this is no longer a triple A MMO. They cannot charge roughly the same as other MMO’s are charging. Maybe lower the sub price substantially and charge for the xpacs? I’m fine with paying for expansions, I always did that prior to KotFE.

            Also Galactic Command drove a lot of f2p players away. It seems they forgot that those players saved this game from closing down, once.

            Wonder what they will do if EA decides to pull the plug again, like they wanted to back then… No more f2p card to play, no content… Doesn’t look good, does it?

            • Rob

              It does not Paulo, it does not. 🙁

              It wouldn’t surprise me if 6.0 offered up everything on the Cartel Market catalogue style, just for one last cash grab 🙁

            • Meelis S

              This will happen rather sooner than later EA pulling the plug.
              I left game start of this year and have no regrets. This endless farming and grinding EACH character companions AGAIN and also influence on top of alliance points already was too much. Now they added cxp on top of that…

              You have to really be insane to farm all that for each character… Alts? yeah forget playing alts then.

              Totally backwards what MMO should all about. And ask so much monthly fee compared to other MMO’s who have tons more new content coming out past year.
              I predicted 2017 will be last full year for this game and its still on track. I have 1 to 5 hope left that this game wont be shut down before end of 2018. There just isnt enough new players to join compared to old ones leaving game.
              EA wont allow this game to be around if Bioware Austin team could be used elsewhere. As soon cartel market spenders realize they cant sell anymore everything will plummet very fast. Thats only thing keeping this game alive and both EA and Bioware know it. Hence they put EVERY desired item on direct sale into cartel market. As soon sales plummet its over.

          • Ben Gimson

            Deeming swtor as KotOR 3 would be an insult to what KotOR 3 could have been :O

  • ConcernedGuest

    Only still in the game because of the raid group i’m in …they need their tank. But only coming on for the raids, doing nothing else anymore.

    Left for EVE on the black thursday some weeks ago.

    I’ve finally got tired after all those years. All those broken promises that everything would be better.
    Finally lost hope of correction of all those bugs in the game still release, missing codex entries, codex entries not triggerin anymore (ruined H2 quests), so much more.

    • Emon McCullen

      Interesting. I’ve been with SWTOR for about 4 years before I got tired of it. I became tired with EVE after only a few weeks 🙂

    • Vergansito

      Go tank Go!

    • Paulo Gomes

      Most difficult role to play, for me at least. I was a mediocre tank, although I did do some tanking back in the day… Mostly with my Shadow. For some idiotic reason, I always found the Shadow tank the easiest to play.

      You just give those Bosses some hell man. Wish I still had a raiding group. Maybe I’d still be playing, even if very sporadically…

      • Errtai

        I was always in raid groups where we had really good tanks, so I never had the chance to improve my tanking. But I think it’s one of the easiest roles to play.

        Easiest: Healer. Mostly just stand still and keep everyone alive. Fight mechanics usually don’t apply to you.

        Easier: Tank. Sure there a few fight mechanics you need to know but that’s about it. Mostly it’s about watching your debuffs and calling the other tank to take over.

        Hardest: DPS. All fight mechanics apply to you. No only you should be killing stuff and fast, but you’re also expected to click things, stand on things, don’t stand on things, kill adds, stun adds, interrupt adds, pull adds, aoe adds, don’t aoe adds, deactivate things, activate things, stop dps, burst dps, don’t stop dps but do not burst dps either….

        Pfff, then stand in front of the boss, do not stand in front of the boss, watch the screen for your name and if you see it click things, kill things, solve puzzles, jump platforms, but do not jump to certain platforms, match colors, deactivate mines… oh my God, this shit is hard!!!!

        TL;DR version: Tanking is a lot easier than DPS :).

        • Rob

          For sure, I always preferred Healing and Tanking over DPS. DPS was stressful work. And then there was all those the practice hours on your ship dummy to get your rotation perfect. I only really ever managed to perfect one, which was Saboteur/Engineering. Even then I was never fully confident in my ability to clear certain bosses (Fuck you NiM Styrak!! ) 😛

          • Paulo Gomes

            Oh! Another Engi Sniper! I knew there was something I liked about you!

            • Rob

              Lol. Great minds think alike 🙂

        • Paulo Gomes

          Yeah, I never saw it from that angle. You may be on to something there…

          Only point where I raise an eyebrow is that tanks need super acute awareness. The tank switching thing I was never good at. I mean, I could do it, but it wasn’t effortless.

          But I also ran with EPIC tanks. man, those guys were great. So the most I did were some rare HM Ops as tank. I mean, NEVER in NiM…

          Other than that, I was really good at some dps and some healing. Sage healing I never got a good grasp of (as in NiM. HM, SM, or Flashpoints and that sort of stuff was not a problem). I was a really good Operative healer, and a decent Merc healer. My main dps was undoubtedly Engineering. I ran Engi when NOBODY was running Engi (you know, when EMP Discharge would reset your global CoolDowns. Those were the days for Engi). The guys that played with me let me do it… Because it was me lol. Other guys had to respec. Had some good runs with my beloved Deception Assassin, but that was nerf dependent lol. Did some runs with the first ever character in this game, my lovely Sentinel Watchman. Or rather Watchwoman… Make that Watch’ilek looool… But I don’t think I ever got the grasp on Sents/Maras. At least not the way I saw some guys do it. Epic players man. I guess I must be an epic player now, with standards in this game dropping so low…

          • Rob

            At one point I was in progression 3 times a week as Tank, Healer and DPS. Those were some awesome times and I played with some epic players as well. I saw some guys play as Sentinel and Shadow DPS and be freaking sweet! I never really got my head around Melee DPS so it used to blow my mind. I used to hope they thought the same way about my sweet Gunnie 😛

            Also used pretty much ran SMs with whatever was needed as well so had some fun times playing classes I had no idea how to play. But that was part of the enjoyment, the variety and the challenge of trying something new.

            • Paulo Gomes

              Oh, I have great memories of SM Ops. Because those would have the funniest stories, you know? Go PUG some Op, just for the sake of it.

              I remember a particular guy… We were doing TfB and went for PUG. This guy… This freaking guy was the greatest noob I have ever seen in my life!

              I must say: me and the guys I ran with NEVER booted anyone from an Op or FP, except if they were rude to us. I mean, REALLY rude. Lack of education and general manners I cannot stand.

              But this guy came in like he owned the Op! Seriously! In his greens, taking on trash and Bosses alike even before a RC. Unbelievable! But he was doing it with such panache, it was fun. Very polite, but an absolute noob.

              Of course, we knew what was going to happen. We tried to explain the ropes to him, but we knew that Operator IX was going to be… Let’s say an experience…

              Sure enough, we find that the guy is colour blind. I’m not kidding, the guy was colour blind! We kept typing “Orange!” “Orange!” or yellow or whatever. But he would not move into position.

              Strike one.

              Ok, so we make him stand in the middle. No colour for him. Just click and channel the switch. Click and Channel.

              He didn’t. Just going at it, fighting like crazy… Which was pointless.

              Strike two.

              Ok. Regroup and this time click and channel. Click and channel.

              He did click. But he didn’t know what channel was…

              Strike three.

              Same thing. Click and channel this time. CLICK AND CHANNEL!

              Well, he did… But not for the whole duration. He thought it was enough, and went back into the fray…

              Strike four.

              Next time we do it. Finally. But I was having so much fun, because in his mind he was doing a perfect job! He was besides himself with pride in what he had “accomplished”.

              Awesome noob guy, wherever you are: you are part of my TOR memories. We probably took the record for MOST TIME in TfB in SM… But it was AWESOME! Leslie Nielsen awesome. May the Force be with you, noob guy…

              • Fred Garvin

                This is a great thread of comments and also a little telling about the state of the game as everyone is talking about it in the past tense.

              • Paulo Gomes

                You know Fred… There’s this line in Star Wars movies: “I have a bad feeling about this”.

                Now, I’ve never been one to profetize about the end of days in TOR. You know where I stand, we’ve seen enough of each other’s posts to know EXACTLY where we both stand.

                But lately I’ve been feeling like it’s time to reminisce about this once great game, because for something I cannot really put my finger on, I don’t think we are going to be able to comment on this game much longer.

                So yeah, maybe this is a last goodbye at this game. And to a lot of people here on Dulfy I’ve come to appreciate and respect. Even those that don’t necessarily think the way I do.

              • Fred Garvin

                Agreed. I wonder if they will wait out one last possible money grab with the release of E8 in December? Then again, they’ve failed to capitalize on Star Wars Celebrations, the release of Episode VII (which had a WoW: Legion ad in front of it when I saw it…lol) so why would they make any effort now? They haven’t even hinted at an expansion, are behind on their “Op”, can’t release a roadmap that covers more than a few months…I’d guess they are just waiting until profit margins hit a certain point and then they’ll pull the plug. Probably early to mid next year.

              • Rob

                I said to Paulo that I reckon they’ll use the CM as a catalogue in the future for a last desperate cash grab. They’ve already got the Catalogue basically done as ‘Collections’ just adding CC amount to a buy it now button wouldn’t take a lot of coding. 🙁

              • Errtai

                I am 100% certain that 6.0 won’t come this year. Last year around these days we were watching the trailer for KotET. 2 years ago around these days BW was promoting KotFE like crazy. This year, it’s October in 10 days and we have nothing.

                Which means there will be nothing.

              • Rob

                For sure, especially as it seems they can’t even finish a staggered Operation over the time span of a year. Either 6.0 comes out in December-ish and they just do away with Ops (if you can call GotM that) altogether again or they finish the Operation next summer (in the current time frame) and 6.0 comes next Autumn. It’s a sad state of affairs 🙁

                But like you say, they’d have been promoting the next round of the Valkorian family soap opera already if there was any chance of 6.0 this year.

              • Rob

                You’ve always a least hinted toward hope for the future Paulo, so for you to thinking it’s near the end then there must be a reason. I hope I haven’t sucked the optimism from you with my pessimism. You at least gave me a reason to believe, even if BW didn’t 🙂

                I think it might be that the general feeling is that even the BW fanatics are no longer believing the promises they hear. It’s a case of heard that before for most of what is said. Replacing Ben with Keith hasn’t helped in the slightest and I’ll whisper this but things seem to only have gotten worse under Keith, that could be because he’s still dealing with the fallout of Ben’s bad decisions but the fact that he can’t ever deliver a Roadmap on time is ominous. Surely they must have at least an outline of what is in 5.5? It was due at the end of this month, they should’ve been already testing it for release!

                I’ll miss these Disqus chats with all the heroes on here as well when the game eventually goes under, give me hope that we’ll be playing it again and discussing present day raiding before that happens Paulo 😛

              • Paulo Gomes

                Oh I’m bringing myself up to the task of reprising the game. Not as a sub, but maybe just revisiting the class stories and all the awesome places this game indeed has.

                I can’t put my finger on it man. I really can’t. But there’s this feeling of impending doom over me when I think of the future of this game.

                I mean, look around. More and more people come here saying they’ve had enough. Updates not happening, or happening with the usual problems. No word from the guys at BW regarding the future.

                As Gog says above, they need to blow it out of the park for the game to have a small chance of competing with the other companies. As we write these lines, I’m sure someone at BW is reading them and feeling our pain man. I really do. But with what we by now have figured out is a skeleton crew, they can’t do anything about it.

                This game needs a SERIOUS investment. And why would EA do that? Not even a hint from them. Quite the opposite. There are rumours people from BW, Austin have already been diverted to BW’s next game, “Anthem”… They got this game where they want it. As Wayshuba said in another post, 3 Hypercrates are worth almost a year’s sub. How many people come out and buy them?

                Time we faced that this is the game we got. It ain’t getting better. Only worse.


              • Rob

                It’s been obvious for a while that these cash shop gimmicks are the priority for BW/EA, its just too easy for them to make money without doing anything. Direct sales have just been the nail in the coffin. I said before that if they can make x months subscription money from clicking a few buttons and making a few ‘rare’ items available, why would they invest in proper content that takes time, money and imagination.

                Like you say, the game is where EA want it, just a cash cow they can milk for as long as possible. It seems we’re at a tipping point though, so many discontented voices, the most I’ve ever seen. And since the recent track record of BW has been so bad, we cannot possibly hope for an amazing 6.0 update. It is impossible to imagine them bringing an update similar to Makeb or SoR in terms of content levels and variety.

                The one thing that will always bother me, is how did it come to this? Star Wars IP and all. This SHOULD be the premier MMO or at least on par with it’s competition. When did EA lose faith that BW couldn’t deliver? Possibly when SoR hit and it was buggy as hell. It’s been nothing but disappointments since then.


              • Wayshuba

                There is not going to be a 6.0. EA is close to calling it on the title, that much is clear at this point. All they are doing is milking the suckers that are left for as much as they can just before they call it. Typical EA modus operandi.

                I think, SWTOR will become an interesting study in the future. No title on the market ever had the potential to be a serious contender with WoW than this title did. But, from the start, it suffered from a team without experience in MMOs, a certain studio arrogance based on past successes with single-player RPGs, and poor choices in individuals who were responsible for running the title.

                I still believe, to this day, if those issues had been dealt with, this title would account for 15%-20% of EA’s revenues today and it would be huge game receiving a boatload of investment each year. Instead, something that had so much potential was run into the ground by mismanagement and inexperience.

                The reason I believe so many a disappointed is they KNOW this is the case and SWTOR just never had a chance at reaching it’s potential. We lament what could have or should have bee rather than accepting what is and has been.

              • Rob

                Have to agree on all that, I think if EA had backed TOR or like you say gave it to a studio with MMO experience, it could have been a different story. I doubt they’d do quite as well as the 15-20% revenue but no doubt they’d be making a fair amount and we’d possibly be singing a different tune.

                I’ve always enjoyed reading your posts Wayshuba, you do a lot a research to back your comments up and that should be appreciated even if it’s not always what any of us want to hear. The facts are the facts regardless, it’s not your fault the game and BW are in such sorry condition.

                So keep up the good work my friend 🙂 Hopefully you’ll turn enough fanbois to the truth that they’ll turn on BW and we may get the MMO the Stars Wars franchise deserves even if to facilitate that game TOR has to die.

              • Wayshuba

                Thanks for the compliment.

                As for the 15%-20%, let’s do a little math exercise.

                SWTOR sold 2 million copies at launch. Had they had a product that would retain customers, figuring an average fee of $14/month (since you can buy packages ranging from $13-$15/month), that would be $336 million in revenue a year (just from subs).

                Now take a look at other popular AAA MMOs as examples. With a focus on content generation and continuing marketing of the game, you should be able to double that population over the next two years. And then add 50% of that over the following two. Most decent AAA MMOs with a serious content focus tend to grow in their first years, before they plateau. WoW grew subs for 7 years before plateauing; Lineage and Everquest for six years; Guild Wars and LOTRO for four years. You get the picture – good MMOs tend to grow over their first 4-6 years in subs, not decline.

                That being said, SWTOR could have (should have) reached about 5-6 million players/subs by their fourth or fifth year. At 5 million players, they would be generating $840 million in revenue, at 6 million that would be slightly over $1 billion in revenue.

                WoW peaked at a little over twelve million subs. SWTOR, with the Star Wars brand and financial backing of a company with deep pockets like EA, could have reasonably obtained half of the peak WoW population. Still not a WoW killer, but definitely reasonable to assume a strong No. 2 in the market.

                EA is currently forecasting sales this year to be almost $5.1 billion. If SWTOR had 5 million active subs right now, they would represent 16% of all company revenues. If they had six million, they would represent 20% of them.

                To be frank, this is the same math EA ran in the beginning and why they were willing to invest $200 million into the development of the title. However, they never achieved it because, to be honest, BioWare was the wrong studio to tackle this and, like lessons learned from FFXIV, they refused to hire people with actual MMO experience or listen to long term MMO players in beta for feedback.

                Again, this will soon be a case study in a product that really could have but never did because the wrong people (and studio) were involved.

              • Rob

                Sweet Math 🙂 I was wrong to doubt 😛

              • gog

                I have the same feeling as well, it just seems to be dying. Which is a shame since it did have soooooo much potential to be great.

                Think I’ve reached the point where BW really needs to blow it out of the park if I’m gonna go back to play it, after far too much time in ESO and a bit of nostalgia in WoW, TOR just feels small.
                I prefer the randomness and scale of PvP in ESO, or the variety of it in WoW compared to the 4v4 or 8v8 TOR is stuck with. Then there’s the solo PvE part, where both WoW and ESO have better built worlds, where free roaming is far more rewarding and there’s so much more random minor details scattered around. And both games churn out so much more new content compared TOR.

                The main thing that made me love TOR was the unique class stories and the different ways you could play through them, but post RotHC, that’s been more or less absent. It feels more like a single player RPG with some MMO elements in it than the opposite. More Skyrim than ESO, but with a cash shop instead of a modding community. Got 1.5 year when in it was the most fun game in the world for me, but doubt I’ll ever feel that way for it again.

              • MKDAWUSS

                I think there was also a case of the game being unable to keep up with expectations. For a game that sold itself as heavy on the story (which it was – class quests and all), it soon became difficult to keep up with once people finished Corellia and the end of their class arcs.

                I would say the beginning of the end was SOR, when you had the Empire and Republic joining up to take down a common enemy, and the PONR was KOTFE when the entire board was more or less reset and our characters stopped being who they were (Darth Imperius, the Woidwolf, Havoc Squad boss) and became this someone else called the Outlander.

                Part of me hopes that when they do shut it down, we can play an offline version of it since it does have enough single player content to sustain itself in that respect.

                And when it does, we can put Legacy canon to rest, knowing that Disney isn’t going to add anything to it (or ruin anything from it – I doubt they’ll be determining a canon Imperial Agent now like they would have done under only one canon [see also: Revan, Marek Steele, Jaden Korr, et al.]). Which, now I’m somewhat thankful for as I can just have my own canon which can come from both and neither. I probably should have done that (might still) with my Darth Imperius – instead of doing the KOTFE/KOTET arc, I should have just written fan fiction where she gets involved with the likes of Black Sun, the Hutts, and the rest of the criminal underworld.

              • Rob

                I’m scrapping KoT** from my Sith Warrior as well. At no point did I want to kill the Emperor, I was his Wrath! If my death would have facilitated his glory then I would’ve paid it gladly 🙂 Although by the end of KoTET they had messed about with him so much he was no longer Darth Vitiate in any form, which was just a shame. The mass murderer I had grown to love as a Sith, went and got into some lame family drama 🙁 Thanks for ruining some excellent lore BW, thanks a bunch 🙁

                For me the TOR story ends probably at the same time as you, pretty much after Oricon. Taking down rogue Dread Masters still seems story relevant, but SoR and especially Ziost where stopping the Emperor from being reborn doesn’t sit well especially from a Warrior point of view. Maybe the other classes including Inquisitor have a vested interest in this, but not my Warrior. He wants Vitiate back and running the show 😛

              • Rob

                Brilliant 🙂 That story made me smile and reminisce about an old guildie I had who was colour blind. He was a PvP beast and he used to join up for SM Ops now and again if we could convince him. Sometimes he’d run away from AoE healing think it was damage, but was my philosophy in my guild, inclusion. I wouldn’t force anyone to play Ops/PvP/FPs if they didn’t want to but I wanted everyone to have a chance at experiencing some excellent content.

                I was the same with PUGs as well, I can’t ever actually remember kicking anyone from any group unless they were AFK without warning for a huge amount of time. I’ve picked up some idiots but got far more nice people, who on occasion would end up guilding with us.

                Wow, I really want to sub and play some old school Ops now. Damn you BW! How dare you make a game so good and let it fall into this state 🙁

        • Jasken

          I agree, I always ran as a Healer in raids, and loved it (minus commando heals). So much easier than DPS or Tank.

        • gog

          From all MMO’s I’ve played, tanking is the one thing I’ve never been able to figure out, I just can’t do it. With one big exception: In WoW during WotLK i mained a feral druid, which I had in a weird DPS spec with some tank abilities for solo content. I still couldn’t main tank to save my life, but for some weird reason that character made for an incredible “Oh shit the main tank died”-backup tank. So whenever the tank died in a random PUG, I jumped into bear form, popped all CD’s (usually the healer realized I went tank) and usually made it through the fight.

          Healing is in the middle for me, love to heal in PvP since ppl expect to die there so I can just focus on keeping everyone alive. Also, I draw more aggro than the tank from good enemy players, which gets really fun when you start to kite players from objectives and let the DPSers have their fun. Never liked it in PvE tho.

          Stealhy melee DPS is my favourite, played those in all games (Feral kitty in WoW, Operative in TOR, Stamblade in ESO). Usually you make sure you’re on the opposite side of the mob from the tank, if you start to take damage you go into stealth to drop the aggro. The rotations are usually pretty irregular depending on what’s happening in the fight, but I have an easier time adapting to that compared to a standard BiS rotation.

          Pretty fun how we all prefer different ways of playing our characters 🙂

          • Errtai

            That is true, everyone has different ways of playing. Tanking, as Paulo said, requires a lot of awareness. Which I personally have. After all, back in the day I was the raid leader playing Sentinel. Sentinel raid leader!! SENTINEL RAID LEADER!!!! That’s close to impossible :), and I was one.

            So, needless to say, my strength was always melee classes. Sentinel, Guardian and Vanguard have always been my favorite classes. Especially Guardian which is my main class right now (not that I’m playing much, but still).

            I know I could have been a really good tank had I not been in groups that already have great tanks. So when/if I’ll join a new MMO in the future, I’m sure my main class will be a tank class.

            • Rob

              I’d have love to have raided with you Errtai, Sentinel was the one class I really couldn’t get my head around and I always enjoyed watching people do that class well 🙂

              For me Tanking was a natural progression as the first character I got to 50 was the Jugg. So at first I’d Tank SM EV and then KP just because everyone who I was playing with went the Marauder or Sorcerer so it was forced upon me 🙂

              It wasn’t until I went over the Rep side a couple of months after launch and did Jedi Consular-Sage story, that I realised how different the classes actually were, before that I’d assumed that it was all the same apart from a new class traits, what a noob lol. 😛

          • Rob

            ‘Pretty fun how we all prefer different ways of playing our characters’

            That’s what made raiding fun for me, I’d see people do insane things with Sentinels/Maras or Shadows/Assassins and I’d be in awe. I could run these classes with ease at SM but for the harder HMs and NiMs I always preferred ranged DPS. Give me a Commando/Merc or Gunnie/Sniper and I’ll light up the world. I ran with a guy who could play Sage DPS better than anything I’d ever seen and that was a nightmare for tanks and healers as he’d be pulling aggro left, right and centre lol. But damn did we clear some bosses with him, some bosses I didn’t think I’d ever clear.

            Personally I loved to heal in PvE and PvP over anything else, maybe because the first Progression I ran all those years ago was Sage heal and I became pretty adept at it. But Jugg tanking will always have a special place in my heart as that was the first raid group I was leader and I had some awesome times on Teamspeak with that bunch 🙂

            It’s just a shame that hardly anybody from that Era is no longer about. 🙁

            • Paulo Gomes

              “The Christmas Eve drunken takedown of the Dread Council”??? Shit, that almost sounds like a freakin’ movie. Or something that should be a movie looooool… I’m not sure I want to know what happened that night, just IMAGINING it is good enough for me!

              • Rob

                Well the background isn’t very interesting. Basically Christmas Eve fell on our usual progression night (think it was Rav at the time), so we decided that we wouldn’t bother again until after the new year. So I went out and had a few drinks with some mates and logged in when I got back late evening. There was 5 of the usual team online plus a couple others. They were in the process of trying to PUG someone when I joined.

                Now as it was Christmas, most of us had been drinking and were continuing to do so, I don’t encourage such behaviour to anyone reading but it was Christmas so who cares lol. Also something to note was that this was just after SoR had hit and we were all level 60, even if we were still in 55 gear. One of the guys who wasn’t in our progression team had a lock on DP and needed the final boss for the HM achievement.

                Suffice to say the whole thing was a shambles 🙂 But a really fun shambles as we were all over the place with our tactics. Plus we were laughing like schoolchildren every time we wiped and it just kept getting funnier and funnier the longer we tried and failed. I think it took us more than 3 hours to eventually kill those councillors. But by the end it wasn’t even about actually killing them, we were just having a great laugh together. Afterwards we ended up doing EV SM just for the joke as we’d been so terrible and needed the ego boost 🙂

              • Paulo Gomes

                See? That’s what I’m talking about. I mean, it always sounds like we progression raiders were such a serious bunch, taking everything so seriously that we didn’t have fun with the game. Well, if you went NiM you’d better have your chops together for sure, it was the hardest content in the game.

                But there were also those crazy nights… The most fun I had, and this was later in the game, was with this all Portuguese guild I ended up with. We would do the craziest shit! We’d go jump in the Sarlacc pit in Tatooine just for fun, and the achievement of course (I already had it, but what the hell). It was a very small guild, maybe 7 to 10 people online at the most on busy nights. But boy, did I have fun. We tried to kill Lucky, in Borellia… Sorry, Corellia… NAKED!!! Yeah, you read right. This was before the level sync, of course. We took off all our gear, and tried to kill Lucky naked.And we did it! We tried to get an Ops group going, but it never happened. But by this time, the game was REALLY bleeding subs. I was so fed up with my guilds disappearing, I ended up putting almost all my toons in this native Portuguese guild.

                And there they remain, most of them. The last time I logged in I was Guild Master. No one had logged in in ages…


              • Rob

                Absolutely, NiM was tough, there can be no doubts about that and beating the toughest fights was an achievement, but that wasn’t what the game was all about for me. Sure toward the end of my TOR days that was about all I used to look forward to, but before the game took a huge downward turn, there was so many other random things going on, mainly because there were so many more players.

                Taking down a World Boss naked though, kudos! Wish I’d thought of that 😛

                Shame to hear about your Guild 🙁 But I’m pretty sure a few of mine will have gone the same way. I’m guessing there will only be a few large guilds left now, as there’s just not enough players left to sustain the small guilds anymore.


      • Shawn Hargrave

        Why? You dont even have a new raid to do lol just piece mealing that raid what a joke lol

        • Paulo Gomes

          Yeah you’re right… But I miss the guys I used to hang with. The game wasn’t just “the game” you know? It was a meeting place too. When I first started in the game I had 3 or 4 guys from my hometown that started playing with me too. Having people playing with you can make all the difference. And then all the people I met ingame from all over the world… All gone man, all gone… What a shame…

          • i also miss the old people from guild when we had 16m runs nrly every night .
            shame they let game go to this lvl 🙁

            • Rob

              I haven’t run a 16m since the days of 3.**. Took over my guild at the start of 4.0 as my friend left the game, but saw a dwindle from 20+ regulars to less than 10. I went on so many recruitment drives but the game was haemorrhaging so many players, still is in fact, that I felt lucky if I could put together a 8m Op group together without Pugging. Not that Pugging is bad, it’s just I thought many times that holding the guild together was pointless if we had to PUG constantly 🙁

              I passed the torch after 5.0 hit as I had no interest in a RNG grind. I wondered how they were getting on so I logged on a couple of months ago, and I was shocked to see only 4 people turn up all evening. 🙁

              • HMH

                This is so similar to my experience it’s… well, I guess I’m not surprised.

              • Rob

                Think many of the ‘old guard’ will have a tale similar to this and we will all share in the frustration that BW continually allowed the game to bleed players without admitting that the game direction decisions they’ve made have been nothing short of a disaster. That is why I think EA won’t get behind them and invest in the game, BW have proven that they cannot be trusted with that kind of money.

                I assume it’s EA’s plan to essentially milk TOR and then let both TOR and BW die off after ‘Anthem’ flunks as well. I personally wouldn’t like to see the end of TOR, still think there is potential in the heart of the game but if TOR’s death allows EA to make a better Star Wars MMO with a better company than BW, I think at this point I’d pay that price gladly.


  • Rompe Himself

    It says something for how many fans SWTOR has that no one has made an offline version of SWTOR the way they have with WOW, SWG, STO and others. Either the game is too much of a mess to make it work or it isn’t worth the effort.

    Personally I would love to see a pre 3.0 version of SWTOR be made so we can continue to play this game when it was great before all the good dev’s left BW Austin and those remaining went and fucked everything up. And to think, this useless piece of shit dev studio was created JUST for SWTOR. They had one job and they couldn’t do it right.

    Maybe there is something for BW to learn from all this including EA – Don’t give game responsibility to studios that neither have the skill or ability to create/maintain it (BW Montreal for Andromeda, BW Austin for SWTOR).

    • Meelis S

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2923776fa147c938cb808a4b908f1236d649ce107582f5720f14d93cd33169b3.jpg Well lets face it – this could be it. Even if it wasnt already so obvious

      • Rompe Himself

        Lol at the post. Let me guess how fucktard Musco chose to respond – by banning that guy rather then you know, address the problems that guy mentions?

    • Asteron123

      If this game does meet its demise at some point, it is my hope that there is some way to at least download and play the Class Storylines again in some form.

      • TheCulprit

        that would be awesome

    • Shawn Hargrave

      There is no bioware anymore its just ea bioware is just a nameplate on a building.

  • Neg Sani

    Wasn’t the roadmap just supposed to cover the rest of 2017? It’s basically October and they take most of December off. So they can’t release a roadmap of the next 2 months because it’s not ready yet? O.o

    BW, the idea of a roadmap is that you share with us an outline of what you’re working on and planning for the next 1-2 years. We’re not asking for you to share code and fixed dates. “Shuffling things around” is inherit in the idea of a roadmap and should in no way affect the release date of said information.

    Dare I say, it’s even a way of bouncing ideas off the playerbase. If you announce something catastrophically stupid a year or two in advance maybe the players can inform you of what a terrible idea it is (i.e. original implementation of Galactic Command) so you don’t get too far along in development with no opportunity to redirect dev resources before you torpedo the game.

    • Paulo Gomes

      They do this all the time. Remember how half assed the “announcement” of the DvL event was? They basically dropped it on our laps and ran for cover with that one…

  • Tsais

    How about fixing some of the ancient friggin issues, so that mouse clicks in the UI actually go to the window that’s on top rather than to the window underneath?

  • Tom C. Granger Jr.

    Bioware promises a full Operation by end of year…NOT. (You got 2 bosses) could not even finish 1 new Operation for the game.sad.

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