GW2 Arenanet Statement on Mount Adoption License Fiasco

Arenanet have released a statement regarding the Mount Adoption License Loot Boxes.
Hi,

We made a commitment to you in March 2012 that we’d fund GW2 live development through non-pay-to-win microtransactions. We try different ideas, but we always hold true to that commitment. We’ve been collecting and discussing your feedback on the Mount Adoption License, and today I’d like to acknowledge and respond to the concerns you’ve raised, and to share our perspective with you.

You have valid concerns about random boxes. We hoped that the design of the Mount Adoption License would be reassuring. In this case, we made some missteps:

  • At a time when there’s a lot of debate about random boxes in gaming, we should have anticipated that a new system with a random element would cause alarm.
  • We released mount skins with three different purchase models, but with the majority of skins released so far through the Adoption License. It’s easy to perceive this as intentionally channeling you toward randomization.
  • The Adoption License is a large set at 30 skins. We stand by the work our artists put into each skin, but it’s understandable to see this as pushing down the odds of acquiring any one skin, and to worry that we might add more skins to lower the chances further.

Here are some of the benefits we had in mind when designing the Mount Adoption License:

  • You get a brand-new, unique mount skin every time, for a substantial discount versus an individual purchase price.
  • It uses a progressive mechanic. Every license gives you a new skin to use and increases the odds of acquiring any remaining skins.
  • You’ve requested variety, and this is a way to support variety. Individual sale is a mechanic that works with a few, flashy skins. Using a grab bag mechanic gives us leeway to create skins to suit a wide range of player tastes while offering a lower price per skin.

Microtransactions can be polarizing, and we’ve received both positive and negative feedback on the license. We won’t change the existing license in a way that would invalidate the investment players have made, but I want to confirm to you that our next planned mount skin releases will focus on individual sales like the Reforged Warhound and bundles like the Spooky Mounts Pack. We will not add any skins to the currently available Adoption License, thus not pushing down the odds of acquiring any one skin in that set.

We appreciate the thoughtful feedback many of you have provided, and that you hold us to high standards for monetization. It’s been a challenging but wonderful goal to support live development and Living World purely through optional microtransactions, and it’s your support that’s made that possible. Thank you.

~ MO

Source: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/15523/a-message-about-the-mount-adoption-license

  • Joshwana

    tl;dr “We’ve heard your feedback and are changing nothing”

    • Jalen Dmello

      To be honest i don’t think they can change since many ppl already brought them. They could reimburse the gems but it would be too much to sort out

    • Ardenwolfe

      Well, to be fair, they’re changing nothing about this instance. But, supposedly, they won’t be doing it again.

      Yeah . . . still waiting for Black Friday on this mess. Maybe then. But over $100 to the guaranteed mounts I want is a little much.

    • Cloudz

      If they make a change then happens to the people who already bought it under the current system? SOL? The best thing to do is not add anymore skins to the license like they said and go back to the regular system.

      Even when Anet acknowledges they did something wrong and say they won’t do it again people still aren’t satisfied lol.

    • Did you miss the part where they said they’ll not release any future mount licenses? Just the “expensive” specialty skins.

      • lithlius

        they didnt say ‘just expensive specialty, they just said theyd use more of the solo skin or themed bundle system i dont see why people assume ” OMG all mounts skins now 2000 gems” when it doesnt say that AT ALL

        • I’m going off of existing price schemes, bud. They’re not going to offer single skins cheaper than what they offer now, or everyone who bought one (reforged, Halloween) would complain.

          Eliminate the mount license and what do you have left? $20+ skins/skin packs.

      • artanis00

        MO didn’t say that. He said the next releases will be solo or bundle, and that no new mounts will be added to THIS lootbox.

        Basically, if they decide to do this again, they won’t reduce the chances of getting one of the current 30 by putting more in the pool, and instead make a new pool.

        • I read that as they won’t offer rng/random skins like the specialty license, in addition to not adding more to the existing pack. Meaning: you either buy a pack of 5 skins, or you buy the single, specialty skins. They’re not going to offer discount skins, especially now that the price has already been established.

  • Shaggy

    they addressed the odds, at least, but i still think theyre overpricing things.
    i think it creates a pay wall that discourages moderate players from even paying attention to the gem store in the future.

  • lithlius

    Yeah the price really wasnt the issue, it was the rng aspect of it. hell not even the rng but the HUGE rng . I still think they shouldve done a ” mount type” RNG box that atleast would be somewhat better. Im pleased with their answer and hope that they see its not that not the whole idea was bad just overcomplicated.

    • Not really HUGE rng when you can’t get duplicates.

      • lithlius

        It reduces the more you spend, yes but it is still a lot of rng for a very little payback for the amount of money.

        also consider this. The Griffon is basically an optional you really dont NEED the griffon AT ALL for the expansion or otherwise and if you are one of thge people who wont care or have the time to go for it, you buy the random adoption lets say 3 times and 2 of those are a griffon skin. you LITERALLY got NOTHING for those 800 gems on those. So yeah it is an specially bad RNG design.
        also, read your comment on how now there wont be any variety? LOL thats a silly argument when that hasnt stopped a net from releasing silly recolors or simple texture change gliders before , you think itll change for mounts? lol

        • Well, now you can spend $20 and get exactly what you want. 👍🏼

  • nadrian3k

    inc 2000+ gem mounts because 25$ for 1 skin for 1 pet is worth it and not disgusting in any way shape or form.

    • And yet, community outrage was directed at the cheaper alternative…

    • Neltisen

      $100 for 3 skins was not much better

      • nadrian3k

        That’s why i didn’t buy them also. Things are getting out of control.

  • FrycoN

    “We stand by the work our artists put into each skin”
    -Who design thos ugly skins that no one wants?
    -Why do even release them if not for pushing down the odds of acquiring one skin we wonna get..
    Lets be honest there is about 5 legendary looking skins, rest looks average others even garbage.
    Bad things happen now in Anet and its not gonna get you larger fanbase that you desperate looking for.

  • shameonyou

    The response is expected, and I’m glad they’re reverting to selling individual skins, but the reforged warhound skin is still too expensive. It was only there to produce the illusion that the alternative (adoption license) is the better option. They can’t honestly expect people to believe a skin is worth 2/3 of the price of the expansion.

    • That’s all we get now.

  • Trixstir

    700 for a glider you always used vs a 2000 mount skin that you switch between because you need a different mount for something els. Seems legit. Ya there may be a bit more work in it but 1000 or even 1500 would be a little bit more reasonable. Or if you want to RNG mounts put some good ones in the BLC and I bet no one would of even bat a eye at this.

    • The point is, now we won’t have the “random mounts” from the mount license for 400/ea., and instead we’ll have the specialty skins for 2000 only. (aside from the occasional pack)

      • Azulrose

        Not necessarily, the reason the warhound was 2k is because it changed the whole model, animations, and effects, so unless all future skins fall in that category, they shouldn’t be 2k.
        Remember, the spooky pack was 2k, which had 5 skins, so it wouldn’t make any sense if each of those skins was suddenly worth 2k. I assume their future releases will be sold individually at 600-800 and at 2k in pack form. I still think this is a better system that the RNG one.

  • Droknar Naramor

    Guys guys listen you don’t need skin to use mount. If you don’t want to pay just don’t buy them. You want to buy skin for 25$ or pay 25$/month without getting anything? ANET doesn’t run on air remember.

    • Miguel Felgueiras

      Yeah while were at it why dont they put loot boxes with the best gear and weapons in game. But calm down guys if you dont want to buy them dont buy them. Remember ANET doesn run on air even though GW2 is one of the most sucessful MMOs out there, and its expansion was also praised making ANETs bank account definitly not one to laught at. After all its not like having purchable skins and loot boxes goes against what ANET said when they released GW2 where the game would be a 1 time purchase without any microtransactions am I right?

      • Sty

        Except it was 1 time purchase and no additional fee for consistent content updates. So nothing to do with mictotransactions which are basically the only way to make the game live if you don’t charge for new content.

        • Zis

          Who knows? Maybe Isla wants us to see and ad everytime we kill a champion…

      • Because a game could never possible evolve, especially not in response to corrected expectations or other outside variables, no no no. It has to keep the same philosophy FOREVER, amirite?

        Best gear & weapons actually ADD something to your character’s performance, they’re not just skins. But hey, good job — now we get to pay $20 for future skins.

    • Azulrose

      Look I get it’s not a mandatory thing, but it’s still annoying. So far we’ve been able to choose what we wanted. You have no guarantee of getting what you wanted here. You could literally have to spend $120 before you get the skin you like, and that is a dishonest gamble that forces you to buy more if you want anything. Most people have no issue paying for cosmetics and helping A-net sustain itself. But bringing such a casino induced mechanic is messing with the straightforward honest systems they had before. It’s understandable that people will be mad, because it just looks like a cash grab. It feels disrespectful to your client.
      If you go to the supermarket to buy a pineapple you won’t expect the cashier to spin a roulette and tell you “congratulations! you have bought a pen!” Same thing is at works here.

    • Gundam

      They launched a fucking expansion less than 3 months ago, if they need gems store and freeze GW world in current state to “not run on air” then there is no hope for this game. Anyone is here long enough to remember: zhaitaffy festival, tower of nightmares, distraction of lion arch ? Even freeking asault of mordremoth prior to Hot relese. For now we got LW3 zones that most of them was dead 3 weeks after releasing, running ley sparks and bandits bosses………yeaaaa

      • Vladislav

        Don’t forget, that Expansion cost something. You saying like Expansion was free to developt for them and all outcome from selling it is profit. It doesn’t work like this.
        Also, this Expansion is bad (in my opinion ofc). They don’t wanted to kill HoT meta map, so they didn’t added anything like this in PoF, but meta was main reason why HoT became so popular.
        So yes. You can say that they failed with PoF and now they need money.

        • Zis

          I hated meta maps very much. I like to roam freely and do whatever I want (or with some friends) not having to wait for the 50+ zerg to do something midly interesting (if you think pushing 1 like a monkey is interesting that is). I wonder how the poor souls that play now HoT are going to do the meta.

          Vanilla maps are superior than HoT’s. PoF is a bit in the middle so I say it is a good idea and I hope they do the same in the next expansion.

          Meta maps, bad idea.

          • Vladislav

            Meta maps is great idea. Also, for last 4 days i watched how meta goes and it still fine.

  • Sty

    At least this system ensures a bit of diversity and I don’t think calling it a fiasco is accurate.

    Anyway, this system is designed to get lots of new mount skins with a lower price and developers don’t need to touch it for a long time. So they can focus on other sell systems, i.e. the individual skins and bundles at higher prices that they are already developing. It makes sense to me. But I agree that the random system is not good for players that are tunnelling on specific mounts and/or skins and that don’t want to put effort into earning it.

    Though, in my opinion, I’m more tempted to get 5 mount skins for 2k gems, even if they are totally random (and globally decent, especially with the 4 dye channels), than 2k on a single mount. And I’m quite sure I’m not the only one.

    • Azulrose

      the alternative should not be 2k for a single skin.. no glider was ever 2k. I would understand 700/800 gems for them, but not 2k.

      The diversity the system assures is flawed. On one hand you can get skins for mounts you dont have. On the other hand, say that you got 4 contracts to attempt at RNG, its entirely possible for you to just get springer mounts. The diversity is not assured nor the reward is not consistently beneficial to the player.
      Its a decent system if you have stockpiled gems/gold or have money or in case you have the time to grind gold. Sadly this is not the case for the majority of the player base, which explains why so many people are mad. It just feels predatory to those who definitely cant invest as much in it and get what they paid for, youre always going to have to spend more than you wanted to if you are going for a specific skin.

      Also, mount skins should not cost as much as a legendary weapon, and you may end up spending just that to get the one you want. Now, if they had added the celestial/legendary looking skins as an actual legendary, with a gold sink, then it would have felt better to obtain them after spending than much, but the rng is just insulting.

      • Sty

        It’s flawed if you aim for a specific skin. If you just want a new better-than-standard skin from time to time, then it’s a decent mid/long-term system. But, if someone wants one specific skin out of the 30 ones, well it’s not for him.

        I agree that the 2k-gem skin is quite pricey, even if it’s probably fair in terms of development time compared to the other skins (between 320/400 gems per skin).

        • Azulrose

          Thats exactly my issue here, even if you want just any skin, you can end up with griffon ones despite not having said mount. Or maybe you want a jackal one and end up getting 5 springers in a row. Nothing is guaranteed except that you wont get duplicates.
          If Anet really had had no chance of implementing a secondary system for this i wouldn’t be upset. But there were many things that they could have done. For example, look at gold lion keys, Anet could have implemented more expensive gold contracts that let you chose, or packs for specific mounts, themed packs, or even random packs with one of each mount. But none of this was done, there is no attempt to reduce the rng in this system, so it stops being “fun”.
          You can cater to both groups, (the people who just want any skin every now and then and the people who want specific skins or a skin for a specific mount) at the same time without turning the mount skins into a casino, but they still did it nonetheless

  • Ayakaru

    To be honest, While 2k for one skin is to much, they rng basic mount skins weren’t that bad. None of the skins are actively ugly.
    And be honest, despite all the outrage, this is far from the worst thing anet ever pushed out through the gem store. My entire reaction was disappointment, both at anet and the playerbase

    • it’d be nice if you could just buy a license for 400 gems, which opens like a reward chest that lets you pick the one you wanted.

    • Scutilla

      Your first statement is a matter of opinion- I personally don’t like most of the “elemental” mounts, I think they’re too flashy.

      I wholeheartedly agree with your last statement, though- not being able to just get one of each is my main reason for not buying despite the RNG.

      • That’s why the normal, yet stylistically varied skins were nice. You had options for the sparkle fiends, and options just for customization.

  • Thalia

    tbh: I think if it werent random and each skin for – uh lets say 400gems nobody would have said a thing.

    • I know, right?

      Ikr? It’s weird that a whole staff of devs could not come up with your idea, and utilize it… Like, really… I would have definitely bought the cosmic skins if the sale was the way you described.

  • IchbinVol

    Take 2/3rds of your skins, and sell them for around 700 gems (same as a glider) each, and spread them out over time. Take 1/3rd of them and make them rare drops around PoF content. There, everyone’s happy. You get your money, and we don’t torch & pitchfork. But what do I know…

    • Cezar Andrei

      This, gentlemen, this…

    • visher

      Well, they wanted to try smth new and felt kinda adventurous 😉

  • Mysterio

    Not sure what the beef is.

    Pay more and get the one you want.
    Pay less and take “the box”.

    The fact that they don’t repeat from “the box”, makes it even fairer…

    • KJ

      What if you want 1 specific skin to match your primary character? Maybe a cosmic griffin for your astralaria weilding, zodiac armor wearing character?

      Would you buy the full pack for 9600 gems? Or risk up to 12000 gems on roulette to gain it?

      Fact of the matter is neither of those are feasible ways to acquire a skin, and very few people desire the full set OR have the $100 to pay for it. It starts to feel like these skins are ‘locked’ behind a large paywall if you are in the mindset I described above..

      (btw thank you for being the first person of your viewpoint to talk with any level of class in these comments)

    • Neltisen

      Yeh, beef is 2000 gems, you pay 400 gems per pack, where beef got 1/30 chance, good luck

  • So, basically the future will involve LESS skin variety, as skins will be relegated to individual “special” items (forged) and packs with the same theme (halloween) EVEN THOUGH people complained about having to buy the whole pack at $20 when they didn’t want the full set. So we’re good with that? A single skin every month or so for $20? As opposed to a grab bag, 2/$10? Further, the current pack at 400 gems/skin is something like 118 or 128 silver.. Which is less than one would expect them to sell for if they were an in-game, bind on use drop. If you have the discipline/time that’s 1 skin/day farming (because if you had a job you wouldn’t be throwing a fit over this).

    Good job guys, less variety. You did it. /s

    • Madeleine Leroy

      I also don’t have a freaking clue why Arenanet keeps listening to those crybabies. The people who scream the loudest get the most attention, I hate it…

      • Cloudz

        There’s only two ways to gauge community opinion. Sales and those who speak up. If they actually changed their stance I highly doubt they went solely on forum feedback. It’s more likely that they weren’t seeing the sales they were looking for in ADDITION to bad feedback.

        If they went off the forums alone I imagine the gemstore and balance patches would look very different.

    • AD

      No, why would it mean less variety? ANet can keep producing the same amount and if they are worth buying, people will buy them

      • They are not going to release packs like the license again, only skins like the reforged single (which is species specific, IIRC) or the Halloween pack. Because people did not like the grab bag notion, even though it’s affordable with in-game gold, and even though it has the best RNG mechanics I’ve seen in an MMO (still RNG, but.. not as bad as it’s usually implemented).

        So it means less variety because they’ll only be releasing an expensive specialty skin, or a 5 pack. And the 5 pack isn’t going to be anything semi-normal (like most of what is in the mount license collection) so anything along those lines in the future is unlikely to be released as a pack — because people want the shineys. Which means… less variety.

        They’re not going to produce the same amount without license collections. They’re not going to release 4 packs of skins per month, or 20 new individual skins. People are salty enough as it is about the rate that new things are introduced to the BLTC. Can you imagine the “WHY ARE YOU MAKING SKINS WHEN THERE ARE BUGS IN THE GAME REEEEEEEEEEE” comments?

        Also the “if it’s worth buying people will buy them” — take a look around LA, and tell me how many of the new skins you see. When I logged in it was almost everyone (that had mounts, anyway). AND YET, the outcry of the decision has resulted in an end to the license collections *in the future. So your logic doesn’t really hold up. People bought the mount license packs, and bitched all the same.

        • visher

          still don’t inderstand how what you are writing about is bad. variety-VARIETY-variety-what?
          we get generally better quality with insurance on what we get. as of variety, just open the damn glider panel now, is this low variety to you?

          and yes, ppl bought one or two licences, many didn’t even understand how it works at first. do you think ppl would keep buying this shit if devs would just drop 30 new skins there every month? hell no. nonetheless, it doesn’t matter what most ppl bought/didn’t buy, it’s all about the whales and addicted ppl who really pay on such cash grabs. and they paid, just look at gem/gold curves, so this mechanic would be returned in game in some form in future just you wait. it already was in game for about a year actually, since devs started to drop exclusive acc bound skins in BLCs.

    • Rick

      You nailed it. The bitches ruined this game once again. I wish Anet would completely ignore their cesspool forums.

    • Batchie

      you mean gold, not silver

      • Sorry, been playing BDO. 🙂

  • MissKatMoon

    I better buy the right skin for 2,000 crystals, than unnecessary shit for 400! Because of the randomization, I can not get the right one for 5 attempts.

    • Unfortunately you only have the one skin available for 2000.

      • Neltisen

        unfortunately, if i want 3 skins of these 30, then it’s 3 skins for 9600, not quite better

  • lore

    I think all the random boxes in these games have to go, it’s time.

    It is just viewed as negative and trickery now, so it is bad press for any game to use them. Think BF2…

    The best part is that these games don’t need them. Here’s why:

    1) If someone is not going to spend money on a game- they aren’t going to spend on it. A loot box, just because it has a cheaper price- will not entice them because they just aren’t going to spend.

    2) People that want to spend and support the game will. So don’t use these cheap tricks on them. Why would you want to disappoint people that want to give you money? Let them make a fair purchase for an item they want this way they feel satisfied.

    I will give you an example:

    I actually spend more on GW2 each month than if it had a 15$/ month sub. I looked back at last year and I spend roughly $17.30/month on the game (not including the x pac as well).

    I did not buy one single random item. I bought quality items that I wanted and I felt satisfied with the purchases.

    You don’t need to use the cheesy random box thing. For every one customer that is happy and gets an item they want- you piss off the other 50 people. Why piss off your customers? It just makes no sense……

  • Mike Yorku

    It’s 9k gems for the 30 mount SKINS. That’s over $100 or 2777g (last I checked this morning). That’s hilarious.

    • Steve

      I’ve been buying gems with in-game gold for the past few months, whenever prices get low. Had over 10k gems saved up. Bought a 10 pack of licenses and got almost every skin I wanted. Total cost: $0.

      Still hilarious?

      • shameonyou

        Very hilarious.
        People are more than happy to pay Anet for convenience as long as the price is reasonable. Then we have people defending Anet, who still want money btw, by suggesting everyone grind and hoard up so Anet wouldn’t earn a single dime.
        So… instead of a win-win, a lose-lose is a better option I see.

      • Neltisen

        there are people with less luck. I’d rather pay 2000 gems per skin I want than 9600 for all 30 (where I want only 3 of them, with my luck, it would be in last packs)

    • $100 for 30, $20 for 1, $20 for 5 pack.

  • Rick

    In other words, the sycophant, bitch-ass players on this game just ruined future skins being released. Now only 2000 gem Cadillacs will be sold.

    Well done sycophants…you leftest shits ruin EVERYTHING.

    • lithlius

      I feel like you are a sycophant but for the total oposite,

      just because they said they are looking and not doing this mistakes again in no way it says all skins will be 2000 gems. ypu are a pesimist sir.

      • Except they DID say they will no longer pursue a license option, and that they’ll focus on single skins (like the reforged) or the pack of 5 (Halloween). They’re not going to reduce prices for specialty skin. So now you get fewer options, for more gold/gems.

        • Name

          No, they said the next planned releases aren’t loot boxes, and they won’t add anything to the existing loot box. There’s nothing saying they won’t do another loot box in the future.

    • shameonyou

      Now before we all start calling each other names like a “sycophant leftest”, maybe we should take a step back and view both the adoption license and the fixed mount skin objectively.
      Neither are okay. Period.
      It’s not okay to lure people to gambling so they have to buy junks before obtaining the items they want, and it’s certainly never okay to maliciously rise the price of a fixed skin so that people are forced to be believe the former is acceptable.
      It’s simple consumer psychology. Someone present two bad choices where one option may or may not be as bad as the other, but in the end both are never acceptable to begin with. Let’s say the adoption license never exist, do you think the price tag of the reforge houndskin is acceptable on its own? Is it okay to charge a mount skin, something you might spend few minutes to admire, 2/3 price of the expansion? For the same amount of money they gave you at least 2 maps each with their quests and meta events. How do you justify that?
      Predatory gambling practice has to go. The expensive price of the fixed mount skin is also Anet’s own doing as it’s their attempt to elevate their lootbox system. It should have never been 2k to start with.

    • Jalen Dmello

      If its rng related then i rather have them obtainable in game than on the cash shop.

    • PrincessFilth

      Is this real life? Did you just blame “leftest[s]” for mount skins in GW2?

    • Neltisen

      2000 per skin is still better than 9600 gems per skin or two (tbh, inside this 30-pack there are only 3 skins that interest me, which translates for 3200gems per skin – 2000 is still cheaper!)

  • Alicii in Wonderland

    My opinion: I don’t need 30 skins. I would prefer better some themed 4pack like fire, iced or whatever. Yes variety but, that’s cost way too much. Perfect way for me would be single item that even could cost 700 gems. And that forged skin would be 1000 gems. This would be normal costs. Today I give up and get that contract because, maybe I will get something good. I got three coloured skimmer . Yeah, 400 gems went to garbage. Because I don’t care what colour is my skimmer, nor my raptor. I find that useless. Something different like fire griffon or ice bunny is cool. But I even don’t care about bunny, I mostly use Griffin or jackals, so. There it is. I would probably buy star and fire Griffin skin, but hey I’m not dumping that money again.

  • FrycoN

    Wtat they should do is release each skin from “adoption” separate.

  • Sotos

    A pack of four at a time, in time depth.
    They rush out to release them all. They make them rng cause they are greedy.
    Thankfully is not something that i really need as the griffon itself(250g are a lot but affordable).
    Also the only that manage to do with those skins is to make postprocessing even worse. Now my eyes hurt more with all those fancy skins around

  • oic

    the problem is getting ppl to waste money on getting skins they don’t want. So essentially ppl are spending 9600 gems on 1 skin. If all skins were of equal quality, then there wouldn’t any complaint. Its because so many of them are junk and only a handful look good

    • Talindra

      People spending 9600 gems on 1 skin is an incredible misstatement of the facts.

      • Azulrose

        true, but hes right about the quality issue. And while maybe you wont need to invest the full 9600 gems, if you like one specific skin, you are probably are going to have to spend more than what you would for say, any glider skin, since its completely random.
        Not to mention you can get skins for mounts you dont have nor care about.
        I think that if they hadn’t added the legendary looking ones in the mix it would have been fine, but most of them feel like buffer to prevent people form getting the shiny ones fast. Its definitely not a very honest system.

      • True, I spent the 9600 gems on 5 skins (1 for each mount).

      • I found a troll

        If you like all 30 skins, plan to cycle through them, apply different ones to different characters, then yes…. sure.. buy the pack!
        It’s not a misstatement of fact if you want literally 1 skin… And many people only want 1 to match thematically with their main (ie firey mounts for hellfire characters).
        In this case, you either buy the whole pack at a marginal discount to ensure you get that 1 skin, or you pull the RNG lever like a game of slots, and risk paying 12000 gems, because that one skin you want is just as likely to be the 1st one you get as it is to be the 30th. THATS the problem, and that’s why people are upset.

      • I found a troll

        If you like all 30 skins, plan to cycle through them, apply different ones to different characters, then yes…. sure.. buy the pack!
        It’s not a misstatement of fact if you want literally 1 skin… And many people only want 1 to match thematically with their main (ie firey mounts for hellfire characters).
        In this case, you either buy the whole pack at a marginal discount to ensure you get that 1 skin, or you pull the RNG lever like a game of slots, and risk paying 12000 gems, because that one skin you want is just as likely to be the 1st one you get as it is to be the 30th. THATS the problem, and that’s why people are upset.

  • Mars

    I’ve said this elsewhere, but for me it’s a question of my own selfishness vs. the quality of the game and it’s long-term health. $120 bucks or whatever sucks for sure, and the fact that a good majority of them are just recolors (and six of them are skimmer…ugh) is hard to swallow, but on the other hand it’s a great, great game that doesn’t have a subscription and they need to make money (and they’re doing it in a purely cosmetic way). Even if I buy two a month, I’m still spending less than WoW (in my mind the game’s only worthy competitor at this point). The 2k for the Warhound is just absurd, however. At any rate, I guess in the end I have to support it, even as it makes me a bit nauseous.

    • Smix

      While I understand where you’re coming from (GW2 has no subscription and you want to support the game so it can continue to grow) you should never feel as though you HAVE to pay money to support it. The onus is on Anet to produce content that their player base WANTS to buy, not feel obligated to buy.

      You ever heard the phrase “Vote with your wallet”? Well that exactly what should happen here. The community reacts badly, doesn’t buy these mounts skins and what happens? No, Anet doesn’t shut down GW2, they learn a lesson. They have a meeting where they say “Well the community reacted badly to this and didn’t want to spend money, so let’s come up with some new ideas and try that instead”. That’s business and ultimately Anet is running a business where they need happy customers who are getting the products they really want.

      Help keep GW2 a quality product by letting Anet know the good from the bad.

      • mike_o_transaction

        If they would have added more content in the game instead of only adding content in the gem store they would have a lot more money right now. They probably would have the monopoly in MMO’s and they would have pushed WOW from its throne. But they went with gem store only way and very very very little content updates. The biggest issue is that they do not play their own game 🙂 And btw the meetings are more like: “how can we trick people in paying more money that the content is worth. With gambling tactics.” best regards

  • hardy83

    Well… We all knew it was gonna happen with mounts. It’s a big money maker in every game, and the industry is slowing moving to gambling for everything.

    I don’t fully blame ANet for doing it. They are business and saw potential profits and went for it…

    However… It was bound to backfire. Even if this is fairly tame, though overpriced, by comparison, because of the BS by companies like Ubisoft, Activicion, EA and others. The concept of RNG gambling is very top of mind right now, and any use of it will draw ill will from people.

    I’m… Sort of OK with it. I mean it’s really stupid and incredibly overpriced but… I guess it’s fine… I’d prefer individual skins for $10ish bucks, but this in an MMO shop where every developer thinks every shop item is “premium” thus we end up paying a whole games worth of money for one skin… but I would prefer a $20 guaranteed unique skin vs RNG 30 where most of them are bleh.

    I do appreciate that they listen and take feedback, as opposed to those other companies I mentioned that really don’t care about gamers or the quality of their products.

    • Alot

      I’ve been playing GW2 exclusively for ages and the older mmos I played (WoW and Terra) didn’t use mounts as cash cows at the time. Could you give examples of games where mounts are cash cows, I’m just not familiar with them?

      • Raijin

        You are completely wrong. There are many mounts on wow cash shop. There price can go upto 45$. People are overacting on price part.

        • Raijin
          • nadrian3k

            If i wanted that i would play WoW not this game. This game offered something else compared to WoW. I don’t want it to turn into it.

        • Alot

          And this is the exact root of the problem in my opinion. While there may be some or other mounts for sale in the Wow store, there are hundreds of mount skins available in game at no cost. Similar line of thought with the overwatch lootboxes – while purchasing them gets you more stuff quickly, you earn them in game relatively quickly.

          My ideal fix to the current rng fest would have been to leave the system exactly as is, add a single extra mount to the adoption licence drop table every month and every month rotate a new currency to one of the meta-maps which would allow players to grind for a single adoption licence each month.

  • mike_o_transaction

    First off, I am a big fan of gw1 and I was a big fan of gw2 for four years, but lately I’m almost exclusively playing gw1. Shout out to my boy Lemming! If they would have just make annual expansions for gw1, instead of gw2, we would now have the biggest and best MMO ever made in existence. Tragically we all know, they have chosen the gw2 gem store way. But if I clearly reconsider my thoughts, I’m really glad that they made gw2, because every single good programmer they had back then eventually left ANET and that’s exactly why it’s now impossible for them to destroy gw1. There is basically no one left who could implement a cash store into the gw1 code.

    • GW1 has already had a store in the game for many years, It is found in the main menu. You can buy outfits and character slots and a few other things. Granted that it wasn’t updated as much with new things, but it is there.

    • LeeboyPancakes

      “we would now have the biggest and best MMO ever made in existence” your words doesn’t seem to be biased at all there, mate. You’re right! There is definetly no cash store for gw and they definetly don’t charge 35€ for a Mercenary Hero Complete Pack. You may like, love, adore something. It’s completely up to you. But if you let those feelings get to you at a discussion, the chances of you having a valid point is close to zero.

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c348d990f1536602222047fc465d76bcd00ab839b58b90a6f223015d940fd71e.png

      • mike_o_transaction

        in gw1 every single expansion was basically as big as the base game. in gw2 they added like 3 maps for an expansion which you have to buy if you really are playing the game. and if you defend their aggressive money grab tactics I assume you are either an arena.net employee or are already really big invested in the game 🙂 that’s by the way their biggest dirty trick. you think you have to play because you are invested and not because you love the game (gw1 was the love part). now they have like 10 times more employees, but if you look up the big programmer names, no one is left in the company ^^ and if you take money inflation into account you will see that they had more money available when they sold just expansions in gw1. if you can’t get rewards in the game why should you play gw2? i went back to gw1 after they added more and more content into the gem store and basically zero content into the game. i really don’t understand how you can defend their gambler tactics. maybe you are really an employee and they have whole teams spamming propaganda in the forums. that would explain how there is almost no new content while having about 300 employees 🙂

        • Real Talk

          Wall text. Stay in gw1 we dont need someone like you in gw2

          • mike_o_transaction

            tldr: about the endgame: (no pay to skin) gw1 >>>> gw2 (pay to skin)

            • LeeboyPancakes

              Ok darling, you’re missing my point completely. And again, the reason is the fact that all your opinions are biased and mostly based on assumption. Did you even read my answer or did you let your auto-defence mechanism to write all this? Either way, let’s observe some delightful parts in your “I’m right if I write a lot” of a text, shall we? “in gw2 they added like 3 maps for an expansion” let me fix that first. It’s 12 maps (HoT only) if you put guild halls into equation (why wouldn’t you anyway). And in those maps there are events, metas, achievements, armor and/or weapon skins, all and all, new content. “and if you defend their aggressive money grab tactics I assume you are either an arena.net employee or are already really big invested in the game” Yes, because no other person can possibly have a different point of view than your almighty eyes. I’m neither an arena.net employee nor a person who is defending the way of their marketing (I mean, I don’t know why you assumed that in the first place). But either of those are beside our point since my answer was about GW1 too having a cash store with unnecessary items. I even provided you with a screenshot but I believe the foam created around your mouth has spread to your entire face and weakened your vision unfortunately. After you wipe it all up, take a good look at yourself. People have different opinions about things, just like they have different reasons to do things. You might love GW1, I said it before, it’s absolutely fine! No one’s forcing you to do otherwise. But just because you like honouring something you like, doesn’t give you the right to extract opinions from unusual places faster than a dog that was fed laxatives. You keep saying that there is no content in GW2. Did you even logged in once in last 2 years? Have you ever raided? Have you done new fractals? Did you even tried checking current events for god’s sake? There is still a lot to do in game and we’ll be having a new episode of Living Season 4 in two weeks. Which means more content, in case you don’t understand how this is related. You say “the gw1 store is basically empty and does not in any means influence any of the endgame.” I SHOWED YOU A GODDAMN 35€ WORTH OF STUPID MERCENARIES. Can I get any clearer than that? How is the store of GW2 being full of cosmetic crap effects the end game? If anything, those idiotic toy soldiers are more effective on gameplay compared to colorful walking devices.

              • mike_o_transaction

                the endgame is cosmetics, that’s a fact, and grinding gold to buy stuff in the gem store is just no fun at all. in gw1 you have to kill a challenging boss or do something meaningful to earn your items. players can see what you have done when they look at you. in gw2 all you can see is that someone either farmed gold for a ton of hours or payed with his credit card (which is from a time efficiency perspective cheaper). and if a company is just focusing on the content of the gem store, instead of focusing on the content of the actual game and you still defend them, you have to be either an employee, getting money for doing propaganda or you just disagree because you like conflict because you aren’t happy in real life which is probably the case here taking in account how rude you have written to me 🙂

              • LeeboyPancakes

                You know what, this is my last advice for you. And it has nothing to do with Guild Wars in any aspect. If you’re discussing, arguing or even talking with someone, try to read or listen to what they say completely before answering them. Don’t just hear/read the beginning and the end and try to bring scraps together to make a point. It makes you look incompetent. First of all, “players can see what you have done when they look at you.”, really? See, this is where our opinions differ. I play the game for myself, not for others’ appreciation. I go for an item because I love how they look, not to show off to others how much I grinded for it. You’re too narrow minded to see different perspectives. I had no intentions of defending anything or anyone to begin with, like I implied earlier, I’m not happy with their marketing policy for either GW1 or GW2, but since you completely ignored my first comment, yet decided to answer with a “ohemgee i luv gw1, so fuck you” type of comment, I decided to reply and actually defend GW2 because the points you make has no base and mostly not true at all. I was simply trying to point out your biased ideas make you ignore the facts (WHICH AGAIN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SECOND GAME). I believe you fail to see it for yourself, because you’re too afraid to burst the prejudice bubble you created in your head. I understand, you want everyone to see things the way you see it, but you better wake up buddy, it’s not going to happen. Keep your accusations. In your little mind assume that I’m getting paid or I am not happy with my life. You know, whatever helps you sleep at nights. Oh by the way, the real rudeness here is taking things out of context in an arguement. If you’re hurt by random strangers’ words online, I can only feel sad for you. The world must be really scary 🙁

  • mike_o_transaction

    They promised mounts and we already payed for them with buying the expansion. The game is not really f2p because you have to buy the expansion! And now they want to get players in buying the mounts for basically triple price of the expansion. But we already payed for them when buying the expansion… This feels like a nightmare to me. A horrible nightmare!

    • PJ

      Your points are absolutely ridiculous and show zero reasoning skills. The base game is entirely free and can be played for hundreds of hours; the expansions are optional. If you bought the most recent expansion you can get the mounts. PERIOD. The licenses are entirely cosmetic, cheaper than single skins, and can even be bought for in-game currency through the gem exchange. So what exactly is the nightmare here?

      • Jalen Dmello

        Rng?? Like pages, videos and posts of Rng behind this.

    • Real Talk

      You are a joke, stay at free to play, don’t come to pof

      • mike_o_transaction

        I have no problem in paying for a game. In fact I prefer to pay for a game. But The problem here is that after you have to payed for the game, you have to pay for the, lets call it, ‘micro-addons’ (because half expansion would be to much). And after you bought both ‘micro-addons’ you have basically no content in the endgame. The only thing to do in the endgame is to charge up your gems, buy all stuff you want in the gem store and fall for gambling tricks to pay even more as you normally would. It’s called mind games 🙂 EDIT: and the fact that every single gw1 addon was as big as the gw1 base game and the micro-addons in gw2 are just 3 little maps filled with ‘swinging a sword’ grind, shout out to my boy colin “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJkkxIdvBEw”, is just hilarious. I don’t understand why they do not add more content in the game. They have all tools they need since vanilla gw2. If they would just start to add normal content instead of gemstore stuff, players would just scream “arena.net please shut up and take my money!!!”. I would gladly buy the complete arsenal of the gem store if they start to add fresh playable new content!

    • Neltisen

      Yeh, Skyrim or Witcher is not F2P either, because you have to buy the expansion!

  • Alot

    I was looking for one statement, that they wouldn’t add another 30 mount rng fest this expansion – by its absence expect another one shortly.

    Unfortunately their justification section is complete bullshit. We already had a flashy 5 mount pack which cost 1600 gems, implying that individual mounts should cost around 400 gems anyway. Plus from years of following them complain about how hard it is to make new armor pieces, its pretty obvious that the difficulty is in preventing clipping and not providing minor color pattern alterations and gluing on fx effects onto existing armor piece. If you believe these two point of mine, then understand that the mount skins are extremely low effort creations (they managed to push out 30 of them in a month for crying out loud) which means their justification point 1 is rubbish.

    Their justification point three seems to be that they can only create a wide variety of mount skins people want if they aren’t directly purchasable – which is also rubbish.

    Justification 2 is just plain silly. If they want to take purchases down the chinese rng route that is their choice to make (potential profits, outrage and all) but this ‘progressive increase’ argument argument is nonsense. If you after a single skin and you take 10 tries to get it, you’ve payed 3000 gems (higher then the warhound skin). Its predatory marketing combined with an average outcome of horrendously overpriced purchases.

    GW2 can do whatever they like, its been a while since I’ve seen any moronic press releases from Anet though. Back to the gutters I suppose.

    • Real Talk

      I did not read this wall of text after “complete bullshit”. Your reasoning is probably complete bullshit

      • Alot

        Can write but cant be bothered to read. You’ve made it half way to sentience mate, make the final push so I can acknowledge your perspective – regardless of whether I agree with it.

  • Trillium

    Well, they needed to sell other skins besides start griffon and star dog, It’s understandable.

  • Real Talk

    If you can’t afford it, don’t buy it. Problem solved. You can keep using your basic mount without making it hard on anet.

    • mike_o_transaction

      rather then thinking about if you can afford it, you should rather think about the value of an product. Parents normally teach their kids to look at the value of and product and compare it to other goods. If it is not worth the price, only a fool would buy it. And recoloring a skin is done in 1-2 clicks by a designer. Do you think that a recolored mount is worth double or almost triple the price of a complete game? I’m curious about your answer 🙂

      • Io

        Not worth it at all. But thats from my point of view who doesnt like flashy skins (Legendary and gliders). The only mount skin that i want (not need, like those hyperbole players) is the shiba inu one. But i dont want to gamble for it so i just ignore it and use the vanilla skin. On the other hand, my guildmate has a really rich parents and he thinks all these mounts worth the price because not everyone can afford it (which is true). However, i think like that is because there is no good-in-my-taste recolored mount skin yet. If i do find one, im definitely would pay 2k gems for it like the forged mount skin.

        The point is, if you dont want to gamble or cant afford it then dont buy it. If you could afford it or you wants to gamble for it then by all means buy it. IMO, all these whines makes the community looks like those whining kids in store throwing a fit on their parents for a toy.

        • Io

          Forgot to mention value of a product, its a game. Of course none of these cash items worth the money. After all you already spend too much time playing to get those gold. Use the gold to buy gems then its kind of worth it.

  • Taiwan Wolf

    I just wanna buy what I want, not a chance at it. Is that so wrong… Illegal gambling boxes that somehow hide in gray areas to avoid being illegal are getting out of hand in games. I swear one day it’s going to get so bad real life will start converting into loot boxes and I wont even be able to buy the groceries I want anymore. I’d have to buy a box of food and hope it has something I can/want to eat inside it. Hopefully I can even buy that though because my job will reward me with a box that may or may not contain my paycheck. If I end up getting a crappy reskinned T-Shirt I’ll end up unable to pay my rent.

    • mike_o_transaction

      that’s exactly my horror vision. micro transaction were terrible because you didn’t buy a complete game. you just bought a piece and they sell you as little as possible for as much as possible in a micro transaction.

      now you buy only a chance for something you want. and the odds are really out of hand because politics are to slow with execution of the gambling laws.

      but sooner or later the gambling bubble will bust!

    • Jebaited ROFL

      dont buy if you dont have money, this game doesnt force you to buy anything from them and the mount skins its just aesthetics nothing fancy. you’re just jealous of others getting all the skins they want while all of you kids whine about RNG boxes .maybe you can tell your mom to buy it for u, dont buy if you dont have money end of the story..

      • Io

        This. Its just a skin, you dont NEED it, you just WANT it. Whining about the rng is exactly the same as whining about why they sold good stuff on gemstore… in a game where you could convert golds into gems… basically the same as buying a glider skin from vendor with gold. “But we want some effort for it, not just buy it” and what happen when anet introduced the legendary backpack? People also whine about it, too hard or too long… gw2 community sure is on of the top tier of whining community list.

  • Neltisen

    I hope there will be sale for black friday. I would not pay $100 for 3 skins I want, but $50, I would consider

    • Ray Koopa

      Same here; 100$ is just plain silly. I’d also think about it for 70$; but that’s already a painful limit.

    • Real Talk

      They usually dont do Black Friday as well as they should. Nothing goes on sale that you need

  • Mr. Principal

    This issue is still going on..?! It’s getting silly to continue discussing this RNG thing over ‘n over.. Even though I’m against RNG thing.. I don’t whine about it.. after all.. those skins won’t affect the gameplay or anything.. they’re just aesthetics.. If you have the money and want to support Anet.. buy it.. if you can’t.. then you have the “gold to gem” option..

    • Alot

      Were you happy with the rewards of the last set of living world episodes? If yes, great for you. Personally I’ve felt (and I feel a lot of people feel) that while the narrative and game play of GW2 is great there is a serious lack of end game rewards to justify playing this mmo for prolonged periods of time.

      While fashion is obviously optional I truly feel that collecting fashion pieces is the only casual end game GW2 has – which means, to me anyway, locking all the fashion central to the main aspect of the expanison behind rng real money loot boxes does effect game play to an extent.

      • Mr. Principal

        Re: rewards.. Well.. I can’t say I’m that happy.. but there could be better rewards than what’s awarded.. Rewards need to be better and varied..

        Re: Fashion.. I’m with you in this point.. but still.. GW2 has many things to do for “end game” thing.. dungeons, raids, fractals, open world events & bosses (which they need a better loot – rewards!)

        RNG & micro-transactions in gaming are here to stay.. Whatever we customers do or say.. Businesses will not change their acts or policies.. I’ve never seen any company doing it anyway..is there..?

        • Alot

          I agree that all the end game activities (fractals, raiding, dungeons, metas ect) are great. Its just the stuff you get from completing them which feels sub par.

          While there will always be rng and micro-transactions, its just a matter of how they implemented. Look at overwatch’s loot box system where you earn the boxes fairly fast but can purchase more. If we had a version of that system, perhaps where through grinding a different type of content each month (fractals, those pvp mini-tournaments, a random meta map, a new or old living world map) you could save up enough of a new currency to purchase a single mount skin “native” to that map (or if you already had that mount from an rng box, you’d just recieve an rng box to consume instead) and seeing how quickly Anet seems able to produce these mount skins, they could just add another low-tier mount to the pool to compensate the fact that people would be getting a free low tier mount every month for free (or one every two months, depending on whether they didnt get enough currency from that months event).’

          When people complain about rng purchases, its seldom out of protest for extortion tactics alone, its about the balance between extortion tactics and the rewards which are attainable for base purchase in game. If we could go from living world releases with reward tables consisting of ascended rings, new stat combos, a living world helm and a living world glove piece to living world releases with ascended rings, new stat combos, a living world helm, a living world glove piece and a single grindable mount skin per map I would say that the reward structure of GW2 (like everything else in PoF) is awesome.

      • Jwhite

        Im not happy with the ls3 rewards not am i sad/disappointed. After all, once you got full ascended its just a journey to fashion wars. Wait, im actually happy with the rewards since they made it easier to get HoT stats ascended trinkets. What im not satisfied is the medium and heavy skins (Seriously anet, its time for a non trench coat medium and no buttcape heavy). But if you only play for a reward, im afraid that gw2 is not for you since there is no gear treadmills… or it is the right for you since you can gets the endgame gear easier now?

  • Jwhite

    You just prove that gw2 community are mostly filled by spoiled kids. In a no monthly subs and no premium item store mmo where you can farm gold and convert gold to gem, yet people still whine about gemstore exclusive. Smh

  • Narottam Zakheim

    this reasoning is pretty limited…. for instance Im not really interested in the star dog or griffon… there are other ones I want…. jackalope and triceratops for instance…. Each player has their own vision for their characters…. some of the models might not get much trade…. but out of the entire player base Im sure there would be a pretty decent spread of sales over the whole range… with a few being superstars…. i can see how they need to stand by thier guns atm… to not piss off too much the players who ran out and fell for this shit… I expect that in the future they will come out with different packs so we can get the items…. probably in the form of mount specific random packs… to lessen the odds…. i bet that in the future they wil also release a guaranteed license for a higher cost

    In this game given the transmutation system the only real rewards are skins… since all u need is the base model to get the stats you need….which are easily obtained in many ways… at least for me… customizing and evolving my characters is the only reason i play… I see them each as living art pieces… with unique style and personality… all of the gaming streams are means to an end… to gather resources to further customize my characters.

    All of you who advise to just not buy them are really missing the point…. business is a relationship between supply and demand…. Most of the customer base are looking to equip their characters with a unique look as well as great functionality… this is what its all about…. why should customers say nothing if they are unsatisfied with the products being supplied? It doesnt serve the game for the business to implement practices that alienate their customer base… if we say nothing and just dont pay… or even leave the game… then the game is ruined for all of us…. decrease in saes means less money for further development.

    Ive been playing this game since start and Ive seen it grow from pretty meager beginnings to a wonderfully detailed content rich gaming world… all of this development came from an ongoing conversation between players and devs…. ive been impressed to see how responsive they are and have taken player feedback seriously and have worked accordingly…. therefore the game as it is… is a cocreation between the company and the players….

    Theyve tried something new here…. it was a really bad idea…. If nothing else I think this huge backlash will prevent them from trying to do things like this in the future… that in the long run will benefit us all and keep the whole game healthy… it doesnt matter what other games do here… it matters what GW does…. as i said Im sure they will release other ways to get these skins in the future once all the drama dies down…. when they do i will purchase the skins i want from this collection…. until then i will be proudly be riding vanilla

  • Garçon

    Here’s my take on this. That Warhound skin is ugly and shit. It looks so bad even if I can appreciate the effort that went into modelling it. The few skins I want are locked behind the license.
    Why don’t they release all the skins in the license as individual skins for 2000 each like the Warhound? I know I won’t be salty if they did that because I have no problem paying that much for a skin. They can leave the license in the shop and the people who want them all, don’t want to pay that much or like the gamble can go for that option.
    The reason I won’t be touching the skins for mow is that the pool is just too large that there is a high probability of getting a simple pallet swap.
    The main issue here is options. Give players more options and they will be happy.

  • Oscar Eduardo Maciel Castillo

    Fiasco.

  • mike_o_transaction

    Looanet has now less money with about 300 employees, as they had with gw1 where they had about 30 employees

  • HadesClutch

    Come on Arenanet, admit it – you anticipated this reaction. You guys just wanted to see how far you could push the envelope. Yes, I am aware that you have zero chance of getting duplicates but that doesn’t quite address the problem that is cash sinks using a system that promotes RNG. This is why Black Lion Chests suck and you tried to do it again with a different incentive and yet it still doesn’t make things any better.

  • K.

    I agree with you, for the first time its actually a nice gambling feature in a game. It offers loads of variety and means that not everyone is going to be riding the same mount as you. Its great to get loads of mount skins out very quickly too. 12 000 gems for all 30 (random) vs 12 000 gems for 6 skins (at 2000 gems each)

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