GW2 Upcoming Wintersday Balance Patch

Arenanet is making a balance patch with the Wintersday update.

Wintersday is coming fellow Tyrians and, during the recent AMA, I made reference to a small balance update and I wished to follow-up to let you know that we’re aiming to release that update next Tuesday, 12/12.


We’ve heard your frustrations with the burstiness of conditions invalidating power builds across game modes (though for differing reasons in each). Conditions have always been intended as a way to achieve strong sustained damage once it has ramped up.

This small update has primary two foci:

  • Pushing damaging burst condition toward ramping, sustained damage. This should create more opportunities for counterplay, but also feel satisfying to keep conditions rolling once you’ve ramped them up.
    – i.e. We’re tuning some skills that apply damaging conditions so that they apply less stacks up front, but last for longer. In total duration they’re almost the same before and after.
    – e.g. Purging Flames: Burning has been adjusted from 3 stacks for 5 seconds to 2 stacks for 8 seconds.
  • Re-vamping several passive vulnerability traits to offer more distinct opportunities or create synergy with other traits (rather than being standalone). At small amounts vulnerability doesn’t feel good and adding more vulnerability to something that is capped on it has little value. These changes will offer chances to spike up vulnerability when it is ebbing or encourage new build styles.
    – e.g. Mutilate Defenses: This trait has been reworked and renamed to “Expose Defenses”. This trait now causes your first attack when entering combat to inflict 5 stacks of vulnerability for 5 seconds. This ability refreshes whenever you use an elite skill.

As always, we’ll be looking for your feedback once you have had a chance to play with the upcoming changes. We’ll start a post here after December 12th to hear your thoughts, so please prepare your most constructive feedback.

See you in the lands!

 

  • Madeleine Leroy

    Every time you get the slightest bit of critique, you silence people by banning them from the forum. Arenanet, you know where to stick it…

    • Dazaroc SC

      Even the spanish forums that DON’T HAVE a CM for it’s own, are silencing and banning people for this reason.
      A forum’s goal is to share your thoughts and discuss with others or make suggestions to improve the game, but if you even VAGUELY suggest GW2 is not a perfect game or ANet is not a perfect company, they silence you and, in the end, they ban you.

    • Jalen Dmello

      Was it constructive or did it include personal attacks attacking a poster/dev/employees??

      Rules are rules bro, you can say whatever you want but consequences are yours to bear

      • Alot

        Around the HoT launch I gave an extremely lengthy critique which they banned citing personal attacks. As far as I could tell I never referenced a single other person in my post – which they opted not to clarify when I queried the decision.

        Personally i feel its greatest offence was being extremely popular during the height of their first PR disaster while not containing any of that emotional “You owe us all the stuff!” rants which invalidate the positions of most angry customer mobs making demands.

        I feel they stretch their own rules a bit further then is believable as well as some other iffy practices – like how they seem to lump completely different rebuttal discussions into a single feedback thread (like they did with the rng mount lootbox discussions into a single feedback thread) which on the one hand is a cleanliness thing and on the other hand feels like a deliberate move to hide different valid critiques in a big black box under an unrepresentative name.

        • Trillium

          Hm, maybe they still listen? I mean, they did try to fix druid dominance in raids, they just failed because they are incompetent.

          • Alot

            It was more to do with the change in their pricing model. I split it down the lines of explaining that as a company Anet could do whatever it liked as they were beholden to no written contract, how they had departed from the contract they had so far aspired to (and claimed to operate by) and I believe I then went through a list of all the promises they’d broken on their HoT splash page. Somehow that constituted a personal attack. PRetty much gave up on the official forums after that. I stop by each april fools to do a set of joke patch notes however.

            • Trillium

              Ah.
              If I was a head of a company, I totally would’ve deleted such a comment as well, even if I took it to heart. No business owner would want customers see THAT on their official forum.

              • Alot

                And there is the issue, if a term of service had been broken then the discussion should be deleted and a warning handed out. If no terms of service have been broken and you hand out warnings and deleting threads, you in pretty scummy territory.

                The fact that Anet does so little promotional work leaves it very vulnerable to negative press. May contribute to some of its more off-putting behavior in dealing with discussions – to which one should respond as a client however you feel fit.

              • Madeleine Leroy

                “Ah.
                If I was a head of a company, I totally would’ve deleted such a comment as well, even if I took it to heart. No business owner would want customers see THAT on their official forum.”

                Well then there is the difference between you/Arenanet and me. If I was in charge of a business, I would fix the problem that people had a lot of critique on and make a come-back with a nice response…

        • Ardenwolfe

          Agreed. It’s a major reason discussion on the official forums has become a wasteland of white knights and their ilk. I also suspect this was another reason for the ‘new’ forums.

          Regardless, they’re going to do what they’re going to do whatever the feedback. The recent mount fiasco proves this out. The only way they’ll change their opinion is when the money runs dry. And when that happens . . . it’ll be too late. Case in point? Marvel Heroes Online.

          But, in the meantime, the wheels on this bus will continue to go around and around.

    • Liberatus Blair

      On the new boards, there´s a bot banning post that violate their rules.
      Maybe it thought, your post wasn´t appropiate.

  • Razyiel

    curious about how much this will affect meta play…if the ramp up time is too long noone will ever use them again because the fights are not long enough to overcome the power burst

    • Alot

      I feel most high priority enemies in events in the new maps take at least 90 seconds to kill – which more then makes up for the 16 second ramp time. The other things to consider is that in most large scale events the objective is not to kill enemies but rather just to tag them – or rather ironically, to stack enough conditions that when the mobs down your glass cannon character, the condis on normal enemies will kill them on their own, giving you a guaranteed self rally.

      • Razyiel

        I mostly think about raiding.
        But for open world you can literally play whatever you like so it won’t have any impact there for sure.

    • Vuk Kulvar

      If the ramp up is too long, basically it’ll be condition for damage-sponge, power for anything else. There’s no point using conditions on foes dying too fast compared to the ramp up duration of conditions.
      Also, it can change balance in raids depending on the mechanics. If the boss can cleanse conditions or have immune phases (or if it leave the arena for a while), causing a “ramp down”, then Power will be better because there’ll be no DPS loss. Otherwise conditions will be better as it must lead to higher DPS once the ramp up is done.

  • Alot

    If you have 100% increased condition duration then (3)*(5*2) = 30 seconds of burning while (2)*(8*2) = 32 seconds of burning – which is a buff to all the game modes I play as long as they didn’t tweak the damage per second numbers.

    While I’m not qualified to speak about how pvp works, I always thought the issue were combos which instantly stacked a few stacks of every damaging condition in game – not a single condition which ticked slightly faster then is should have?

    • Ronald Rain Allan

      You forgot to add damage per stack. If you dish out 1000 burn damage per stack, by your calculations the old system will do 3000 damage per second for 30 seconds vs 2000 damage per second for 32 seconds with the new system. Tldr is duration increases, stacks and damage decreases.

      • lurker

        (damage*stack)*(duration*durationBonus) = totalDamage ; (1000*3)*(5*2)=3000, (1000*2)*(8*2)=3200

        • Alot

          One thing I feel I should clarify (seeing as different math skills seems to be a thing) is that before this change you would deal 30 seconds worth of burn in just 10 seconds while after this change you will deal 32 seconds worth of burn over 16 seconds.

  • Ayakaru

    condi builds are going back into the ground, knowing how anet hamfists their fixes 😀

  • Ainseland

    heeeelllooowww pow ps!!!!

    welcum bak

  • Breno Helinski

    They should reduce cond stacks WITHOUT increase their duration.

    • Orcus

      That would be the stupidest thing they could do.
      They want to increase ramp up time, not decrease condition damage. By reducing stacks and increasing duration by a correct amount, you get more or less the same damage. That guardian example changed from 3*5 = 15 total seconds of burning to 2*8 = 16. So it even slightly buffs total damage, but it takes longer time to do this damage.

      If they just reduced stacks, condition dps would be lower than power dps and it must never happen. It would invalidate all condition builds and nobody would use them because they would never be better than power builds.
      You need higher condition dps than power dps after a certain time (ramp up time) for it to even be viable.

  • espiegle

    is all this noise over PVP?

    • Apple Salad

      Plays a part I think, by lowering the tick dmg upfront and increasing the duration to compensate will allow counter plays. Eg. A guardian can kills of a player in 2-3 seconds by mashing a few buttons together to give out 12-16 stacks of burn AOE, dropping everyone nearby him the next second (Players HP doesn’t go up very high like bosses). By lengthening the duration gives out a chance for one to cleanse (Not funny as most cleanse is not instant, a tick or two still goes through)

      And I think the “balance” is interpreted differently here. The “balance” is not to make the condi damage equal to power. Otherwise there’s no point in having power or condi classes as both side does the same amount of damage. Think Anet is trying to separate the two now like in raids Dhuum requires Power and Condi class at play. Power for burst with lower overall dmg, Condi for higher overall dmg but requires time to ramp it up.

  • alexandr dumah

    this balance will kill only the expertise build and food on pve.

  • aimasira

    i cannot understand why they are doing balances on combat during the pvp season…

    • Ayakaru

      I, too, cannot understand why you’d call the fire department to extuinqish a fire during the weekends. I mean, it’s weekend, let’s not call them until monday morning so they can put out the fires. Until then, the fire can wreak on nicely.

      Do you get my analogy?
      There’s a problem, and there’s a solution, there is really no logic in waiting to fix a problem if you have a solution.

  • Robotsynonymous

    I’m just going to put this here for those of you who’re mathematically challenged…

    Let 1 stack = 100 damage per tick

    Before balance update:
    3 stacks for 5 seconds
    (3*100)*5 = 1500 damage
    1500/5 = 300 damage per second

    After balance update:
    2 stacks for 8 seconds
    (2*100)*8 = 1600 damage
    1600/8 = 200 damage per second

    Based on the example given by the dev, they’re looking to decrease condition DPS, but increase total damage done by extending condition duration. Doing this will give players more time to react with a counterplay, but punish them more for letting the full duration tick away. This increases the viability of certain counterplay tactics such as cleansing, healing, waiting for cooldowns, accepting death, and running away to that teammate carrying the team.

    • Ayakaru

      I was considering this actually;
      Burning does more damage with every passing second, same for bleeding, poison, etc.
      tick: damage (done in that tick):
      1 10
      2 12
      3 14
      4 16
      5 20
      6 24
      7 28
      8 35
      9 50
      10 80
      after 10 seconds, total damage done: 289

      instead of:
      1 28.9
      2 28.9
      3 28.9
      4 28.9
      5 28.9
      6 28.9
      7 28.9
      8 28.9
      9 28.9
      10 28.9
      after 10 seconds, total damage done: 289

      It works with your analogy to make the damage ramping up, and punish players for ignoring the condi’s

  • The One Copper Bard

    I know people will hate this change to condi damage but always do what everyone else does. Work around it by adjusting the build or go with another one. I’m prepared to with my Condi Rev 🙂

  • The One Copper Bard

    Wonder if something is going to happen cause ran into some ‘friends’ while working on a low level out in Sparkfly Fen.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c84e07877f72d697e431e7f8737f108e6265861d6e3382ea1f585b7e291d9034.jpg

    Dunno if anyone else has pointed this out or ran into them but this was a surprise. Sent them packing. Gonna keep an eye out.

    Hey Dulfy, anything on these sightings?

    • Maiden’s Errand

      Living Story season 4 explains it.

      • The One Copper Bard

        I’m fully aware on what LWS4 has. However, this is the first time I’ve encountered them outside of Elona.

        • Maiden’s Errand

          Then you know why they’re there.

          I fail to see the logic here.

          • The One Copper Bard

            I’m not going to explain on what I meant as my words were perfectly clear. If you cannot understand then you are barking up the wrong post.

            • Maiden’s Errand

              You ask “Hey Dulfy, anything on these (unrelated) sightings” on a thread about Christmas and I gave you the answer. Which you apparently already knew, but still were unable to make 2+2, because otherwise you wouldn’t ask. Then you give me attitude.

              In fact there is actually another practical reason for the sightings https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/15905/awakened-wandering-in-sparkfly-fen which Google would have told you in seconds. But it wasn’t removed after Halloween in order to tie it in with Living World S4 so that’s pretty awesome.

              So anyway, what is wrong with you?

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