Producer's Livestream SWTOR

SWTOR 5.8 Developer Livestream Coverage & Notes

SWTOR 5.8 Developer Livestream Coverage & Notes.

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  • Conquests
  • Ashara Return
  • Vector Return
  • Izax Background
  • Izax Gameplay


Just some screens showing the new conquest UI.



  • Catch up with Ashara and see how she has grown in the meanwhile – she has been studying the force without her master
  • Both Ashara and Vector are class specific companions – Only Inq/Agent can get them

Gods of the Machine Lore/Izax Background

  • Izax trailer:
  • New weapon on Iokath, people were aware it was there before. These were powerful droid weapons by previous creators of Iokath and deployed to primitive words. As players took on Tyth, players discovered that there were more. These droids kinda coincide with the Zakuul gods. Scya keeps these droids in control the best she can.
  • Izax is the most powerful of these droids and is set to Nightmare level difficulty.
  • First pull on PTS lasted 7 seconds and no one has been able to beat it on PTS. Fourth phase comes back to the mechanics of second phase but with a whole ton of adds. You will get swarmed by little spider droids.
  • Izax has been built up as an engine of destruction. Each boss in GOTM has been a step up in difficulty. Izax has longer cooldowns between attacks but his attacks have much higher base damage to show that devastating effect. His HP in Veteran mode is 104 million and his enrage timer is 58 minutes but you won’t be able to last that long.
  • It will take you 13 seconds to run back to Izax after a wipe. In Scya’s room there is a hidden mini boss that you can defeat to bring down your run back from 64s to 12s.
  • You won’t be able to control Izax on Iokath after defeating him.
  • If you beat Izax in the release period after 5.8, you will get a title and a rare item from Izax (similar to Wings of Architect) that is bound to legacy. If you beat it after the release period, the item will still drop but it won’t be bound to legacy.

Class Balance

  • Class balance changes will come out in 5.9. It will be mostly utility changes and making changes to skank tanks (tanks that wear DPS gear)

By Dulfy

MMO guide writer and blogger. Currently playing and covering SWTOR, GW2, and TSW.

319 replies on “SWTOR 5.8 Developer Livestream Coverage & Notes”

Everything is fine 🙂 People are happy 🙂 Game prospers 🙂 Quality content 🙂 Cartel Market is best 🙂 Loot boxes are funny 🙂 Take all my money 🙂 Good vibes 🙂

Don’t worry I’m sure you can do it. I mean they said no groups on the PTS have been able to….

But I’m sure once you drop that you’re the “Outlander” he will just pack it in. 😀

Don’t worry my guild either we lost our dedicated raiders to FF and ESO. With the exception of one group no ones made it past veteran Tyth.

I think we should take bets whether they have to hire some raiders to come back and beat it before the month is out. Or if no one at all gets the reward.

You must have the ‘Attuned Pummeler’ – ,the EXCALIBUR weapon of SWTOR, equipped in order to defeat him.

Boss health varies between 6-7 mil HP to 13-14 mil HP in Hard Mode. Fully augmented and optimized heals/DPS are between 132k and 135k, depending on class of course, and for tanks, they can go to more than 145k with a high endurance build.

Is top DPS still around 15k? That’s what I’m seeing on some guides (though those are over a year old now.)

It is around those numbers yes, but I dont think there are any players left that can do those numbers. The average swtor player these days will probably do 10k dmg (in an op). Even on veteran, bosses nowadays take 7-8 minutes, idk what fucktard has come out with the brilliant idea to make ONE fight an hour… Guess this is their newest idea for creating content, next expect all op bosses to get 100+ million health in the newest “event”.

[OP is Fred G]

Yeah, if the comp is 2T/3H/11DPS and the avg damage is 9k you’re looking at a 17.5 minute fight. Can you imagine wiping at 15 minutes? Lmao.

Looking back through my logs for the latest WoW mythic raid we’ve had some fights go 8-9 minutes but they have tons of mechanics that keep you occupied. Even with interesting mechanics though I think I’d get tired of 15 minutes+.

I was thinking the same thing, spending an hour to reach the boss and then wiping after 15-20 min of boring fight, with an inch of getting him down. And let’s face it, all “mechanics” in that last pieces of an op can be summed up as – throw a bunch of useless adds at them and once that’s done throw some more

Nope, these are not accurate numbers, 10k is not very common on boss fights. Only very few players do that and not on all bosses, only on a few of them.

Oh? Well I haven’t been in an op since last May, and back then we were doing between 8k and 9.5k dps.(granted, that was with the overpowered mercs and maras) I thought with those new augments it would’ve jumped maybe another 500 or even 1k but like I said, there aren’t people left that can actually do that kind of dmg.

Well, there is definitely an increase of about 500k because of the new augments, but as you said, 9.5k is pretty much the maximum for the majority of players that actually know how to do a rotation…. and then you have a very small percentage that can do more than 10k on single target bosses. If you have bosses with adds, ranged with great AOEs or dot spec disciplines can go up to 12k or slightly more, but that’s not the norm I would say, it’s leaderboard material, and still, nowhere close to 15k of course. Here, choose a boss and see for yourself:

Interesting, on the dummy bosses (like Nefra) the top dpsers back in May were completely different classes. Now it is powertechs everywhere! And to think powertechs were hardly welcomed in a hm/nim raid…

Well you know the drill. PvP’ers cry because they can’t win and they are so butthurt in their nerd rage, that they demand class balance…. and then Bioware goes and nerfs classes like Commandos/Mercs and Shadows/Assassins and DPS Sages/Sorcs, which were quite alright in PvE to be honest, and now these classes are not the flavor of the month in PvP (as they were for months), but they were also affected in PvE, when there was no need to.

Yeah, this happens every time when BW start doing “balance”. First were the sorcs, then shadows, opers, now mercs and maras. And the funny thing in their latest screw up is, that nobody had any issue with mercs damage, everyone (in pvp) had issues with their almost god-like defensive cds. And in typical bw “we listen to players feedback” fashion, they nerfed the dps. Which as you said, led to them go to almost dead last in the charts.

No, definitely not 15k. Maybe on boss fights like Fabricator and Malaphar, where you either get a huge damage buff or the boss gets its armor reduced, but on dummy parsing I think top performances are at about 12k, which means less of course on regular boss fights.

A good dps will do between 9 and 10k on the dummy and slightly less on bosses, depending on the boss of course.

Mmmkk. Yeah, that’s going to be one long ass fight. Anyone beating that deserves a free month of sub or something.

The difference in DPS numbers between games is interesting to me. Everything is relative of course but it’s just odd. I want to say pulling 4k DPS back in SoR was good? Can’t really remember. Now in WoW I’m doing 2+ million DPS, have 8 million HP, and am fighting a boss with 6 billion health…lol. Looking forward to the stat and item level squish in the next expansion.

Half right, I believe the enrage timer was a joke from listening to the stream, but I never heard them saying the HP was a joke so I think that’s true.

Yeah, given the state of SWTOR these days I don’t see many beating that and I doubt many will come back to try.

have I not been paying attention since the chiss update or has there been no update to the theron arc yet?

[OP is Fred G]

We’re they seriously not even able to get the thumbnails correct on their agenda? FFS. And it starts immediately with the unorganized rambling and giggling and talking about how Keith has nothing better to do than to troll chat 🙄

I can only handle a few minutes of this clown show. Looking forward to a big boy dev stream this Thursday.

Yep. If i had to livestream in front of many people for my job, as they do… I would rehearse or at the very least check if the files were set up correctly. Amateur hour over here.

[OP is Fred G]

You have to wonder if they’re just doing it on purpose. How can you be like “This talking point is about Ashara, I need a pic of Valkorian.”

Trolling and rambling, laughing on a developer livestream is done on purprose because they do not want to look stupid by not having meaningful content to share for such a small time.
Other games who do these livestreams make jokes IF there is something from sidenote to add but main focus is always new content and detailed explanation.

Queue the losers crying about comments made about SWTOR. Oh wait, thegoalie79 is already on it. At least he never has issues jerking off to his pic of Musco.

thegoalie79 I think the danger of trying to tackle something that you see as an issue is that you actually become the issue.
I used to come on here and battle with some very negative posters because I like the game and still play and couldn’t understand their point of view. I have always argued however that if you are abusive then the message you try to put across is diluted and people only see the negative and don’t listen to your points.
I’m not going to tell you what to do, you’re your own person, but maybe tone it down and argue points of fact and interest, as a player there are some good talking points both positive and negative.
We all know it’s not all sunny in Swtor town.
Over time I began to understand their issues, and their anger, a lot of them still love the game but want it to be so much better.
If it wasn’t for them on here and the forums we wouldn’t have the turn around from story to a fairer group/pvp/story focused content, we wouldn’t have the easy gearing we have now (it was tough at the start) and even now the dev’s make comment on podcasts that the decisions they make are made with the players reaction in mind.
I’m not going to lie, some of the posters here are just her for the hate or lols or votes, with like you say the same meme’s, but if you dig a bit most are huge fans of the game and the genre and want a great game again.
Anyway just my two pence (cents for the americans) worth.
Don’t become the problem man.

While that is some good advice, said person just seems to enjoy pissing in everyones beer so to say and doesn’t really seem to give a damn about the game. Just really has fun stirring the shit pot. Thanks for trying though.

that Koth there reminds of my Koth, I wonder how mony worms did he feed or if a tree came out of his belly

So Izax’s HP in Vet Mode 104mil and the enrage timer is 58 minutes?..4 words..what the absolute fuck?..that makes no fucking sense..i mean..who the fuck is gonna beat that?

I guess that is the newest idea from BW to keep people playing. Instead of making actual content like new planets and exploration/dailies zones that will take 1-2 hours, they make one boss and then just pump him up on health so it takes forever. The creativity this guys have at coming up with ideas about putting out the tiniest trickle of anything and get away with it is amazing

Actually it is. I was there and they quickly admitted that. I guess Dulfy was not paying attention or something?

I would hazard a guess that it’s more like even Dulfy’s patience as ran out with Bioware and ‘jokes’ are wearing a tad thin on even her these days.

But this is EXACTLY the problem I pointed out to weeks ago, when I put up a link to an ESO cast.

These guys are simply unprofessional and lousy at their jobs.

Of course, you can say it’s Dulfy’s fault, she wasn’t paying attention.

Well, what about not making stupid jokes altogether? Putting your message across in a concise, deliberate and professional manner? I guarantee you this sort of thing would not happen.

Stop with the juvenile behaviour already. People are PISSED OFF. This Op should have been here 3 months ago. THREE MONTHS.

Man, I don’t know how some people enjoy this freak show…

I think they are trying to be light hearted and show that they are having fun which I don’t mind HOWEVER that should never spill over into inaccurate information jokey or not.
I still don’t know if the damage done and it’s total health is b*llshit or not.
Poor show from them IMHO. We need facts.

[OP is Fred G]

Exactly. Same with the thumbnail for Ashara not being correct. Was that a joke too? They just seem like idiots and I can’t figure out if it was always this way and I didn’t have anything else to compare it to or if they gradually turned into this as resources were stripped from the game.

I know tomorrow when I watch Blizzard’s Battle For Azeroth update stream they will act professionally and the game director will actually be the main person on the stream giving useful information…not hiding in his office trolling chat like a 12 year old.

Hey, I don’t even wanna go there. The guy responsible for this game is “trolling chat”… How amusing.

I wonder if the people that like this sort of behaviour conduct themselves in the same manner in their own jobs… Those that actually have a job, that is. Pitiful display.

its like i said before imagine these guys at wendys

me: ill have chicken sandwich combo with a large coke
eric musco: ok thats a baconator with a small iced tea
me:uugh noooo
eric musco: did you know theres a new chicken sandwich coming out next month!
me:leaves wendy
eric musco: hey that dude didnt pull around for his baconator and ice tea? wtf
dev: hey i worked very hard on that baconator!!
EA: ok were gonna need you all to drop what your doing and work on our new “anthem” fast food chain

I love how they just gave up putting companions into story missions, so now we get one minute long conversations and that’s it. Couldn’t even figure out a way to allow other classes to get them either. You had a really good idea going there, Bioware, threading together the class stories (even in a small way) through their companions, but now it’s just disappointing and forgettable again. At least I got Elara back with a meaningful story before you gave up entirely.

Its because there is literally no money for for development. So they go for the easiest way and less money needed. Otherwise it would be plain obvious to even diehard fans that game is no longer supported actively by EA. All the devs have moved to Anthem or left Bioware.
I saw news few days ago that another long time Bioware employees have left recently from anthem game team also.

sad but true. why the first thing I posted in Twitch chat on this stream was about how this is the only MMO I play and begging EA not to shut it down.

Not only dev employees, but Drew Karpyshyn, too, left Bioware sometime during past week (again). And he was working on KotET story…

Are you kidding me? How can a subscription-based, microtransaction-ridden MMO not have any money to use for development? Maybe they’re falling apart because so many people hate the way they’re doing things now. From the loot box infested SWTOR to half-baked Mass Effect Andromeda, and now another game reminiscent of Destiny and Division? People sense a trend, and they don’t like it anymore. Maybe they should focus on actual content now instead of tossing a dozen Cartel Market items in every month or so.

I hear you. Grateful I got my space husband, Quinn back before Bioware just threw their hands up in the air “whatever” when it came to companions. I really feel bad for teh players who were attached to Andronikus and Risha and even Vector. Vector was a sweet romance and deseres some effort 🙁

I am sure that people other than myself were thinking that the original companions were going to be re-introduced during some part of the KOTFE/KOTET story line which would of made a lot more sense. Instead we got the Lana and Theron show. Not that I dislike either one, but it seriously did not need to be all about them

Oh boy Elara that commando medic is my toon’s wife, best thing ever. She actually helped healing a flashpoint on her own back in the day

Damn straight! Best companion ever! She was my favorite companion on my first character, stayed so ever since.

It’s taking them nearly one complete year (and technically more since you have to take in development time for the first boss) to complete one raid/OPS.

First boss Tyth came out around April of 2017. It’s now March 2018.

bioware is just some of the worst. A company that I used to buy anything from without a second guess is now a company all I do is second guess them as they continue to show their incompetence in an MMO game.

So they gave Aric Jorgan to all classes which -if you think about it for a second- makes zero sense for some classes, but they’re not giving Ashara to anyone else but the one single class that didn’t even make sense since day 1?

Ashara cannot be turned to dark side and unless you played a light sided Inquisitor, all the convos with her made little to zero sense. I never understood why she didn’t leave my DS5 Inq the at the first spaceport when she had the chance!

She is actually a perfect companion for a Jedi Knight or Consular, even a Warrior, and Bioware should have made her available at least to all Force sensitive classes. If Aric Jorgan or Rusk or Yuun can work with a Sith or an Imperial Agent, then why can’t Ashara work with my Guardian or Sage?

Anyway at this point of the game, who cares, right? Yeah thought so. Sorry for the ramble.

Ashara is the Ashoka of SWTOR – Grey in stature, bright in wisdom, and beauty forbidden by the Jedi SJW Code. My LS Sorc only wanted to get in between her legs in lustful seduction. :p

I actually hated Ashara on my LS Sorc XD like he was trying to be nice and offer an honourable exchange of a Holocron for access to a ghost and then she betrays you turns you in and bitches that you killed her Masters who dind’t HAVE to die if it wasn’t for her. I felt like she was forced on my Sith :/ It got REALLY pervy when all of a sudden flirt options showed up and it made me uncomfortable.

I agree my Jedi Knight wouldn’t mind her and even my jug would get along with her and help her see the gray path.

Exactly my thoughts. She was forced upon the Inquisitor! Just like Rusk was forced upon the Knight, or just like the Warrior couldn’t kill Malavai, or just like most of the Bounty Hunters would have either killed Skadge or left him to rot on Belsavis after the mission was done there.

My point is, Ashara should have been one of those “universal” companions. This is a big, very big even, opportunity missed right there in my opinion. I can understand Risha not joining anyone but my Smuggler but Ashara just joining the Inquisitor just doesn’t make sense!

But as I said, nothing at this point make much sense, so who cares one cannot get another generic companion or not.

I thought Ashara was supposed to be the same as Jaesa, she could go light or dark depending on your sorc. And then they cut out the dark options for some reason leaving you with an out of place Jedi companion.

Its a little sad so little is said in 30 minutes.

Though given how disappointing the last companion returns were and that they have failed to address that, more of the same can be expected.

While all that time spent on the final raid boss that is not aimed at casuals (i.e. their own words a PUG killer) and the VET mode can’t even be completed by their influencers who must be as hard core raiders as they will find. So how good a business move can this possible be.

Maybe it’s an attempt to bring some of the hardcore raiders back and sub, but seeing as most will now be under geared as time has passed I don’t see how that is going to work. ( A short window between 5.8 ad 5.9 to gear up in order to get the achieve/drops etc)
And long term will they stay?

As you say, hard core progression raiders will have gone elsewhere, 2 years without an op boss, then 5 spread out across 12 months just isn’t enough. So at best they have a gear grind just to be able to do this, though I suspect there just isn’t enough to draw them back. I know my old guild aren’t coming back, and even if people do if 2018 follows 2017 it will be very very little slowly released so it will be back to games that cater to raiders.

I agree, to bring out a boss aimed at hardcore raiders in a game that has chased them all away is stupid, decent boss drops or not.

they are way over of the point of no return.all raiders went away long time after sor 2014 was last real expension.even if they make 2 new ops now most of them wont come back as they pissed off from ea and bioware too much now.

If they want old raiders to come back they need to bust out some new raids at a bigger pace then what they are doing.
I would advise them to reuse some old boss mechanics on new NPCs to save time. Maybe the final boss of each is the completely new thing IDK.
I just dont see it working the way its going.

Yeah I don’t get this from their angle. My guild was big into raiding although I’d never claim us as ‘hard core’ and they bailed in ’13 due to lack of interest in the raids back then, much less how few have been added since then. Making something to appeal to a population that is mostly or completely gone is an odd decision.

It sad how disconnected Keith, Musco and Charles are from the player base of the game.
The act like it’s 2013 and SWTOR is successful like WoW in 2008.

If it was successful then we’d be drowning in new content (or at least we’d have something worth the money they ask monthly). We wouldn’t have an update with just an UI change, 2 class-specific companion (that means 6 without “new” content) and a single OP boss (OP made in more than a year).

At this point, whatever is left from the dev team just seems to be putting pieces of existing unused content together to keep the game running longer with minimal effort. If the game was successful they’d invest more time, money and human resources so it doesn’t happen.

Eric has stated for quite some time that he plays mostly Overwatch.

One of the reasons why he keeps making so many game information related mistakes when he writes stuff on the forums probably.

Just out of curiosity who is interested in returning companions?
I personally don’t get it, it really annoys me, but is it a thing people like and look forward too?
Not trolling genuinely interested.

No idea. Probably 14 year old players that creating “Love threads <3<3<3". Waiting for these useless 2 minute cutscenes with "ohhOhh so sweeeett <3". And we paying sub for that with hope they going to add real content. I stopped to play, still got 2 months of sub. Iam pretty sure this game is going down, nothing will help it. Iam sure 6.0 will be crap with more companions, maybe 2 flashpoints and cartel items. Checking dulfy and iam not surprised there's only CM promotions.

A lot of people get attached to them. Vector was one of my favorites from the agent story (my first story in SWTOR) so I understand it but not with the poor way they are being reintroduced in these short cut scenes.

Yeah I get that, I’m attached to some of mine too that’s why I only ever did it Kotfe with 2 toons, 1 rep and 1 imp for the achieve, because I didn’t want others to be taken away.
And you can still get them back from Odessan at the vendor if I remember right which seems to negate the whole ‘returning companions thing’ does it not?
It’s been a while since I’ve done that whole story bit, I avoid it tbh.

Oh I don’t disagree with you here at all. Just giving the PoV I’ve seen from those that want them back; they want them back with some closure, some explanation of the time lost between them instead of just clicking the console.
I had so many before I let my sub die last year that I didn’t care anymore. I just worked on Lana and kept her with my main jug tank when I played, I finished the first Zak stuff but never touched the 2nd set (can never recall which Kot was first these days).

Yeah I suppose you want the backstory/closure on what happened to them.
From what I hear on here the wait wasn’t worth it as the returning stories were lacklustre. (never done the returning stories so don’t know first hand)
Shame that.

That’s what I hear too. They wait for more story and it’s essentially: “Hi! I’m back!” and that’s about it. Not worth the wait really. =/

Which seems odd as their making such a big deal about it in there streams and roadmaps.

I still remember the community arguing for a way to get companions back due to crafting. Then the devs going over how companions would make these epic returns in a timely fashion. Now we are in year 3 and they are still trickling them out.

Makes me happy they caved in and put the companion return feature in. :p

Outside of the ones we got during the first year of KotFE most of the returns have been substandard. Changing the unique abilities they had and weapons was also disappointing.

It drives me nuts that they attached some of the companions that were bottom of the barrel picks to the story. We now have companion returns in a state that is pathetic.

Yeah I couldn’t agree more with this.
The 2 times I did the story I went straight to the vendor/datapad on Odessa and got them straight back.
Wondered at the time if I would regret it.
Glad I did now, not worth the wait it appears.

whats funny about the “crafting” argument is that the maximum your old pre-kotfe companions could have been at that time was influence 10 due to the nerf. Which now only costs about 40,000 credits to achieve influence 10 on any companion and replace them *sigh*

I’m just glad my space husband was one of the last ones to get a decent-ish come back. a meaningful re connection. really feel bad for the players who liked Andronikus and Risha. it was so half-assed

Before they took them away I couldn’t care less.
My Mara used Quinn to heal because I had to (before all comps could do everything) but I did like Jaesa.
Then they made all comps do healing/dps and tank and gave us like 50+ of them.
They have lost all meaning now.
And if you’re still waiting for an old companion to return that you lost over 2 years ago (rough guess of time) then it’ll take a lot more than a 2 min cutscene to reconnect to them.
You would need like class chapters again to rebuild that bridge.

There’s the odd one I still like, like my first HK that I did the mission for and my first Treek, always liked Scourge and Torian, and my Dark Jaesa ;), they all however became a joke with them all being clones of each other.
Kotfe gave us half a dozen more interesting looking ones during the star fortresses, but still again clones and the CM a dozen more, again all clones. So as you say it became pretty meaningless. Then having them return in a grandiose fashion (that’s french for crap btw XD) and call it content?
I don’t get this move, never have done.

I’m not really interested anymore.

Every companion is just a generic POS from what they used to be. They used to have unique abilites but bioware removed nearly all that.

Now they are nothing more than copied and pasted tanks, dps and heals with a different skin and skills for each are nearly the same.

I have no use for 35+ generic companions anymore.

Theran still has Holiday, tho. ;p Wish she was a companion – could become a ‘Mobile Emitter’ ala Doc from Star Trek Voyager

there exactly the same lol what they did to hk was shit absolutely ruined him especially after that bs quest to get him smh. Its pokemon thats what there trying to do lol

Of all the CC I spent playing this game, Treek was the best chunk of coin I ever spent. Back when the companions each had a specific role, Treek was a new toons dream of a companion. Tank, heal and dps, all in one companion.

I remember the first time I got to Fleet and saw someone running around with her as a companion. “You can have your own Ewok companion!? I want one!”

Jeez 101 pages and 1000+ posts *shivers*.
I accept that there are parts of the games that I don’t partake that are popular like pvp, starfighter (i’m just crap at them) and RP, but i never knew there was such a thing going on with companions.
Maybe this whole companion thing is bigger than I thought. Seems a shame on them then that the return of them seems poorly done.

I thought it was kind of cool at first. Especially when they made old companions essential to the main plot again. ie Kaliyo, Scorpio, Vette, and Torian. But these newer ones like Andronikos that are 2 minute cut-scenese are not even worth the wait.
Its like a build up of sexual tension only to have your partner prematurely ejaculate. Sure you got there, but, seriously?! Its disappointing.
If they can’t come up with a decent way to bring a comp back at this time, I would rather see them put resources into other aspects of the game instead of rushing it out because people keep asking, “wheres my characters significant other at”?
They need to save those unreturned characters and turn some of them into villains for a 6.0 or something and make it worth waiting for.

Wasn’t Scorpio the main villain at the end of that story, so it meant that some players couldn’t use her anymore which seems a waste, especially if you’ve stuffed million worth of gifts into her for crafting.
But I get what you’re saying about them playing a more interesting role in the game, so long as they don’t take them away, as a crafter I found it very frustrating.

I heard rumors that its possible to spare Scorpio at the end and keep her. I was hell bent on destroying her and didn’t choose any dialog options that entertained that though…

Yeah she was annoying in the end and killed her too if I remember correctly. Weirdly I saved Arcann.

Dunno about keeping her as a companion, I spared her (on my warrior nonetheless, don’t judge, it fits with my headcanon) and she takes the place of the previous Iokath overseer, forgot his name. You get a message from her after that, telling you she’s experiencing a metamorphosis, so to speak. That’s about it, don’t remember her or her new self getting mentioned in the post-KotET Iokath story.

I think its the same few posters keep posting page after page as opposed to a real indication of interest, with may of the posts being meaningless and fan fiction.

It is also perhaps an example of one of many awful decisions in the last year. A game that prides itself on story where the big bad is force redeemed while unconscious, mostly ignored and now in a few lines of dialogue will go from someone that committed war crimes to the players love interest. It seems the writing team is done with crafting meaningful realistic stories and just wants to see how farcical they can make the story before someone notices.

I’m just getting enough companions to do the maximum crafting bit while I have HK-51 out doing my tanking.

Here’s the thing I find hilarious. Someone actually took the liberty upon themselves to stalk my conversation to carry it over someplace else and when I tell a tall tale lie about being Jewish someone thinks they won something.

You guys really are retarded on here. Worse than the Dark and Light jackoff’s on Facebook. Let you all know I’m trolling to sucker y’all in for a response and you still can’t take the hint I’m being a smart ass on being a Jew. I don’t care about religions, just care about reactions that you all give =)

HK-51 doing the tanking? Did BW fix the HK-51 tank bug? Last time I played HK had an aggro drop in his tank stance leftover from his pre-4.0 days…

Wasn’t aware he was bugged as I recently got back into the game itself. I just put Lana on DPS and haven’t looked back since I main a tank.

When there were actual stories and (fun) mission associated with the companions, yes it was fun. The stories could have been done better and woven into the chapters much better.
The way they are doing it now?
They missed a HUGE opportunity to make Lord Scourge and Kira’s return epic and make sense in the story. Now, no matter how they bring those 2 back it will suck compared to how they could have done it within the first few chapters of KotFE.

The problem is in how EA/Bioware REALLY dropped the ball in the story-telling aspect in the game.

Think of it: Our character gets captured by Zakuul, frozen in carbonite for FIVE YEARS (!) and little-by-little some companions return with a brief convo that at least make some sense… However, the bulk of our companions return with not so much as:

“WTF happened to you?”

“I missed you!”

“I thought you were dead!”

Or even a:

“Sheesh! You’re so high and mighty now as the Alliance Captain of the Universe and you couldn’t even be bothered to use your friggin’ droid armada to look me up and at very least let me know that you still gave a damn about me?” (Influence reset to zero)

Sloppy (damn sloppy) story-telling.

It’s no wonder swtor isn’t doing well. A raid/OPs that maybe 1% of the population thats left in swtor can even attempt to do but it take nearly a year to get it out.

What a waste of “F”ing development time.

OPs are great but damn. This kind of development isn’t retaining or bringing in new gamers.

The Developer is just 1 smart guy with glasses, so i don’t think they are wasting too much time definitely…

Trololoolz.. 😀 😀 *Rolls on da floor giggiding & holding belly* x) “Smart” being the word and then 1x Sweat Pants on basement working with Raid that comes out in pieces.. 😀 🙁

Queue the losers crying about comments made about SWTOR. Oh wait, thegoalie79 is already on it. At least he never has issues jerking off to his pic of Musco.

I didn’t watch the stream, but perhaps there are phases that buff your damage output? There are other ops bosses in the game that do that, such as Fabricator in KP and Malaphar in ToS HM.

Though if the enrage is anything like they are making it out to be… one might say you’re stuck with your normal DPS power…

I know that, but it isn’t relevant. The point is that it is hyperbole meaning that it might not be an hour long… but it IS going to be long. And if the enrage timer is going to be long, then they expect the fight to require some length of combat.

If only bioware actually cared about swtor and released proper expansions like world of warcraft

I think its more EA doesn’t care about Bioware. SWTOR team is actually really small right now. The rest of Bioware is working on Anthem, if Anthem fails Bioware will become the latest victim in studios EA has brutally murdered.

Bioware has already been brutally murdered by EA, many years ago. Perhaps if Anthem fails, Bioware will get a proper burial, instead of being kept around in this undead state.

Bioware is still good even if they are trying to make their games more generic. Would suck to never play a new Mass Effect or Dragon Age game.

I don’t really blame EA as much as I blame Bioware. I am sure that EA never told them up front when they were discussing SWTOR in the board room “Here take this 200 million and do your worst.” Bioware had full creative control with an almost unlimited budget and lots of resources to get the job done.

They just simply blew it by using an Alpha game engine. Bad game design and a lack of an end game content. So much so in fact that it went FTP and a cartel market was added within 11 months of being released. Bioware just seemed to be cursed with self inflicted acts of stupidity.

While the game is better today by leaps and bounds than it was at launch as far as class mechanics and game play. KOTFE/KOTET wasn’t as popular with the fan base as they would of liked and in fact I would dare say that the majority of the fan base prefers the class stories of the vanilla game over KOTFE/KOTET. And now we all shake our fists at EA and wonder why they are taking resources from the game and not putting any back into the game.

EA is in a Catch 22 type situation where they have to ask themselves why should they invest more money into the game when Bioware doesn’t even know what their fan base wants from them.But the more important reason is that their sub numbers really don’t warrant anything but the piece meal content that we are being forced to get used to receiving.

You make some interesting points there, but I think there are two things at work here.
I agree with you that Bioware is in a situation of it’s own making.
It was they who misguidedly took us down this route of Kotfe/Kotet not EA and subsequently chased a part of the player base away from the game.
It was an attempt to bring in new fresh blood on the back of the the excellent vanilla stories by creating a story arc and also many players were wanting more story content.
But not JUST story content. Not ONLY story content.
Not only that, it is was awful linear story, especially for non force alts.
DvL was I think an attempt to give group players something to keep them busy while Kotet/Kotfe was ongoing as they were aware then of the backlash coming over the forums.
The budget was spent on the new story arc, and Kotfe wasn’t finished, so they needed something quick to fill a gap and DvL was born. Now I didn’t mind DvL (yup I got hell on here for saying that), see I’m an achievement whore and it was very easy to get the 2nd top tier with minimum fuss, the top tier was just silly imho, but I get how players who were already p*ssed at the way the game was going would furious at this low content move.
I’ve lived through many gear changes in swtor whether is was crystals, tokens or CXP boxes, they’re all the same to me.
Not going to lie, CXP was tough at first but it got progressively easier quickly as they listened to feedback and now its p*ss easy, and crafting the second highest tier 246 is real easy and cheap to buy on the GTN. The problem I think with CXP was that it came at a time when there was no new group content to grind it on. A bad move by Bioware that backfired again,
I do think however that EA is taking people and resources from Bioware, due to Anthem pressures, leaving Bioware only able to produce what they are at the moment.
I’m seeing a lot of new players coming through now, our guild are picking up 4-5 a week, and we’re small fry, but they’re are much less experienced players around. Run a raid with pugs and half the group runs around clueless.
However as you say play wise and mechanics wise it’s still a really good game, it has come on leaps and bounds since the early days and is great fun to play BUT content in a game like this is the key. You could have the best playing game in the world but without content it’s a dead duck.
We’re definitely going in the right direction now with decent quality (not quantity) MMO content coming out in OP’s and flashpoints/daily’s etc, story has been stripped back to sensible levels but its sadly piecemeal, which is fine for daily’s/flashpoints/warzones etc but terrible for OP’s.
And from what they are saying piecemeal is the future :/

I largely agree with this. KotFE and especially KotET show sign of their reach exceeding their grasp badly and rushing to tie up loose ends out of far of not getting another chance later. 4.0 was the exact opposite problem of 2.0. They originally overcompensated to cater towards raiders and while raiders regard Oricon .etc as the peak of the game, swtor was bleeding players badly and the meme of “swtor’s dead” had already been cemented.

Now this actually sounds exciting. Will it get me back into logging in regularly? No. But I will want to be part of a raid group to beat this guy.

The producer dont get banned kid, he owns the game that happened to monkey face down…but have good news for both if you came to my place tonight perhaps we can reach an “agreement” and let you play again at my house mmmmm

When you try to hard to be someone else because I don’t know your life was shit, troll, or the fact you just love Keith so much you decide to act like him….yeah must be the latter……..

Mosco is gonna be here too so np we can play in couples, gonna show you izak power in advanced….you re gonna love it!

LOL….hard to believe people still fall for the companion bit. They take your comps away then give them back as “new content” lmao smh oh look another giant droid to attack!! it only took them what a year in a 1/2 smh

Peopel asking for hard content want nightmare Ops (they are additional to story mode and verteran mode operations). Nobody wants regular veteran mode ops hard as nightmare.


lol that was a joke, they were joking, now who is the idiot? mmm, anyways it appears to be a tough fight in order to keep the sub bois “busy” and subbed for the times to come…

Any idea what drives the limitation on companions now only coming back to their original class? Assuming it’s not just malice, do you suppose for some reason it’s that difficult to code to make a companion available to all classes? They take the time to work out the dialogue for the class-specific conversations… do they not have the time and resources to knock out five lines of dialogue generic enough to work the other seven classes? Just seems like an odd restriction to suddenly impose.

I am assuming that it’s indeed laziness, and that somehow activating a dialogue triggers a short scene, which does the exact same thing as the relocation console on Odessen works. That’s the best explanation that I can give, I wish they would make it an Alliance alert for all toons that have started the KOTFE/KOTET crap, at this point it’s the least they should do..

Maybe money. EA was one of the companies that the voice actions union had their strike against. Base rate of pay was increased because of it. Less lines means less time in the recording booth and therefore less money spent on the voice actors and the recording booths.

Pure guess though.

I still remember the community arguing for a way to get companions back due to crafting. Then the devs going over how companions would make these epic returns in a timely fashion. Now we are in year 3 and they are still trickling them out.Makes me happy they caved in and put the companion return feature in

The phrase bioware used is, “Doing it right” when returning companions.

Bioware and their crew are either just some of the most “F”ed up people around or just incompetent because when we talk about getting companions back and “doing it right”.

bioware screwed that up so bad with what they have done “doing it right” is a complete joke.

I’m thinking they are. The Raid Designer describes his job as killing players in entertaining ways. This suggests he isn’t looking to challenge players or give them decent content he just wants to kill them making the experience one of respawns and waiting to discover the next minor mistake that will wiping the raid group. Fun fun fun.

While returning the companions is done in 3 minutes of cut scenes with badly written dialogue. If you have someone coming in for 6 months to write dialogue they seem to have done the bare minimum, while bringing VO actors in for so very little. You have them in the studio why not record more than a few lines.

But not to worry the devs are determined to ignore all comments they don’t like and ignore the issues facing the game.

I don’t’ see how it would do anything other than flop.

It’s something like 3rd in line to similar games and each of the ones before it haven’t done all that well from their makers either. Not bad but not great.

Add in EA has pissed off a lot of gamers for a while now with the bullshit they did to BF2 and their “F” up ideas for microtransactions. Word got around about how EA was designing things and that will be remembered and brought back up as Anthem gets closer.

Honestly, I’ll be shocked if it does well. I think it will still sell a large number of copies but not in the capacity to be called “doing well”. Flop is much closer to what I think will happen.

imo i think they deserve nothing less anyway simply because they sacrificed ME and SWTOR for that niche title and “sorry sad copy” of Destiny…

I am really pissed off, i don’t know if they can’t be creative any more or just some random idiot at this studio (or EA i don’t really care) came up with the idea: “You know what? I like Destiny… why we don’t do copy-paste and name that pile of shit a bit different?” Yea they tried to do copy WoW paste SWTOR and failed, so why this would go any different?

If it doesn’t then we might see the Dragon Age reboot. SWTOR will never be more than what it is now. Just a trickle of content with short-term communication and more CM stuff. If that’s cool, then you might be happy to play SWTOR for years to come still.

Of course if Anthem goes south then BioWare might suffer the same fate as Visceral. That might also be bad for SWTOR since I can’t imagine it’s a big money maker for EA.

It looks like you started the thread with the question, I don’t see anyone calling you anything but rather answering a question you posed.

They’re trying to be special and witty about stuff like most people on here. Just watch on a post that I’m about to do 🙂

Ok……now i’m really confused.
I thought the bots were here to wrack up votes or give the background appearance of a real poster in order to drop some spam, bypassing disqus’s security.
But now were getting something different, random guest posts with copied and pasted posts.
Sheeeeet, I’m out.

It looks like you started the thread with the question, I don’t see
anyone calling you anything but rather answering a question you posed.

Yeah that’s a baffling one, makes no sense as to what I thought they were up to.
An individual playing games maybe?

It’s set to Veteran (aka Hard Mode), but it will be as difficult as previous operations/bosses in Nightmare difficulty…. if any of that makes any sense :’)

lmao. So, if I understand their thinking here:

Step 1: Drive away raiders by abandoning traditional end game for two “expansions” in favor of on-rails chapter storytelling.
Step 2: Piss off on-rails chapter storytelling fans by abandoning chapters in favor of old content rehashing, minuscule amounts of story in occasional small content drops, and releasing one new Ops boss every couple of months.
Step 3: Release a final Ops boss that is set to a difficulty that only the people who were driven away from the game years ago in Step 1 have a chance of defeating.

Have I missed anything?

That’ BW logic for you. If there is any wonder left how could they screw up a golden goose franchise namebrand…

It seems to be this is by design, its been pointed out many times but Keith in his wisdom has decided what the game needs is a pug killing OP as the focus of 2017/18. Not sure how many hard core raiders they have left to appreciate this or how many gambling boxes they buy but I’m sure time will tell if Keith made the right call.

Though to be fair, its not just pug killing the op designer detailed his job as killing the players in interesting ways. So possibly looking to drive dedicated raiders away with boss mechanics that aren’t designed to be challenging but impossible.

Queue the losers crying about comments made about SWTOR. Oh wait, thegoalie79 is already on it. At least he never has issues jerking off to his pic of Musco.

Its a nice triggering effect isn’t it? A lot of these toxic no has-been’s were asking for it 🙂

Yeah but kind of pointless ant the end, SWTOR is a mess and even worst the Star Wars franchise too. I mean if you are still enjoying the game fine, go and play it but the franchise as a whole (including games) is on very unhealthy state right now and nope Disney is not gonna move a finger regarding EA.

In all honesty, they need to get away from the whole companion bit and do need some competent people in the livestream chat stuff. I do like SWTOR but felt like I was watching giggling kids.

Class balance changes will come out in 5.9. It will be mostly utility
changes and making changes to skank tanks (tanks that wear DPS gear) NOOOOOOOOOOO

So basically I need to wait 3-4 years for a decent stretch of content to play with for a day. That’s the gist of what I’ve read from Dulfy over the course of several months after I just stopped playing SWOTR. This isn’t ground breaking news of me needing to resub to this game asap to try out ‘new’ features. Some of these features should of been added/adjusted to the game a long time ago. If Bioware and EA want to impress me instead of doing flash sales in the Cartel Market then release an actual expansion that consists of 5 new flashpoints, 3 new raids, 100 new quests, 6 new zones/planets, and a longer story interaction that spans for more than a day every 1-2 years. Not just add a little here and there every 1-3 months.

Pretty much. I came back to play KOTFE and KOTET and completed both story lines with 6 classes in 8 days.

You done better than most, I don’t think many people get through them 3 or 4 times. Once its clear its one size fits all story and mostly on the rails game play it gets hard to basic attack your way through. Or play it on VET or Master mode, only they weren’t really balanced for this and waves of trash is harder than the final fight.

Even still the quality and quantity isn’t on the level with something like ESO. In the past year while BioWare has been dicking around with 5 bosses for a single raid, two flashpoints, and a shitty planet zone that adds nothing, in the same amount of time Zenimax Online has released the Morrowind expansion (one raid, about 15 hours of questing, and a new zone), Horns of the Reach (two “flashpoint” dungeons), Clockwork City (one raid, a decent zone, and about 3 hours of questing), and Dragon Bones (two more “flashpoint” dungeons). Pretty much double what BioWare has put out, and a substantially higher quality both in storytelling and gameplay.

Then get on to the business model behind what they’re offering. ESO you can sub to play everything or pick and choose what you want to play and buy that specific stuff pieced out. In SWTOR you sub or you’re fucked. Even the stipend that they offer their subscribers is different. SWTOR offers what, 500 or 600 cartel coins? Barely enough to buy a legacy unlock of gold Cartel Market armor. ESO again offers more, 1500 Crowns per month subbed to be exact, almost the entire cost of the sub as it is. And you don’t have to wait for every month to roll over either. If you sub for 3 months you get 4500 right then and there. Then just look at how they’ve handled the Cartel Market stuff. Gold items that used to cost 240 coins to unlock for an account are now 400 (iirc), silver is now 240 instead of the 100, and bronze is gone replaced by “platinum” which will eventually be 800 to unlock for an account. All in an effort to nickel and dime their customers. Meanwhile ESO if you buy something or get something in an RNGbox it’s unlocked for your account. Period.

I don’t even really like ESO, at least the game part of it. But I do have to admit they are running a better business and giving more to their playerbase. While EA is trying to squeeze every coin out of their players, with contempt I might add, other developers are trying to foster a mutually beneficial relationship with their players. It’s sad. They have the money. They have the license. They can have the talent. It’s just that they don’t fucking care anymore. So then we have to ask if they don’t care then why should we?

Yeah it is a better deal with ESO but I’ve decided to play WoW for the time being and it has paid off for me to be honest. Found a Guild, Raid the new/current content 2-3x a week, enjoying the hell out of Mythic Keystone runs, and already unlocked 4 out of 6 new races for WoW’s newest pre-release expansion BFA that should be released sometime this year or so. But if I ever get bored I’ll give ESO a shot. Have a few friends that enjoy playting that MMO off and on every once in a while.

Glad that i didn’t pay a single cent for watching The Last Jedi Bonus disc the day before yesterday, i wasn’t expecting more, the movie was bad hence the behind the cameras and extras were even worst…
Man the stupid director “justifing” his stupid decisions….Keith and him should go on a date…my 2 cents.

I applaud Hamill and Fisher posture regarding their characters end though, specially Hamill… Rian Johnson and Keith must be related….sigh. RIP Star Wars.

[OP is Fred G]

Meh…Hamill has doubled down on spewing the corporate line. I like him but in regards to his TLJ defending and trashing of ppl who don’t like it he can kiss my ass.

Yeah, but I imagine having Disney’s lawyers on your case must NOT be a nice thing to happen. He does have a contract he must respect… And let’s be honest: if you want to work in Hollywood you have to toe the line. Don’t hold it against him.

[OP is the Dark Brotherhood’s most lethal assassin, Paulo Gomes. WE KNOW!!!]

[OP is Fred G]

As I said above, there’s not bashing the film (which I understand) but bashing ppl who don’t like it with the “Oh, it wasn’t what you specifically wanted so thats why you didn’t like it” crap is out of line. I’m sure there are a lot of actors who have to promote a film they really don’t like for every studio out there. They don’t all go that far.

Well, I’m not aware of those statements. But I believe you, and if that’s what he’s saying then yeah, he’s out of line.

I just wish people would stop making excuses for the film. It was BAD. No, scratch that. It was HORRIBLE. I specifically wanted ONE THING: a good movie, with a good story. I didn’t get that. The one thing I expected. For the story to make sense, at the very least.

It’s a pity, but Hollywood is too busy patting itself on the back and being the moral compass of the world to deliver good movies. TLJ is not an isolated case. There’s a lot of moral preaching going around. And I mean: people in THIS industry are trying to tell other people what is right?

Clean up your own house. THEN you can come and try to sort mine…

[OP is Fred G]

Aside from other snarky comments, as an example he posted a selfie pic on IG from the premiere with the cast. They’re all smiling and off in the corner of the pic is just a random person looking serious. His caption is (not word for word cause I’m too lazy to go find it): “Here’s everyone all excited at TLJ premier and in the corner is that one guy who isn’t because it wasn’t what he THOUGHT it should be.”

Disney seems like they are in damage control mode between TLJ and the upcoming Solo movie that they are pretty much already writing off.
They need to stop rushing out a movie a year out of greed and take their time
as its creator did. 3 years apart wasn’t unreasonable.

They’re going to burn this franchise to the ground. The only glimmer of hope I have is if KK someway, somehow gets removed from Lucasfilm and someone competent gets the job (Dave Filoni?????). Privileged white male or not.

IMO the ones praising TLJ as a good movie don’t know about cinema. I mean they haven’t watched enough good quality movies to distinguish good from bad.

[OP is Fred G]

That I can’t agree with as I’ve seen some people whose opinion on cinema I respect quite a bit praise it. These are educated actual critics who have had interesting thoughts on other films and who I’ve grown to trust as a pretty accurate barometer on how good/bad a film will be. Not just Joe Blow Movie Buff Superfan who only watches certain types of movies.

I didn’t hate the new ones, I didn’t love them. Then again I also didn’t mind the room – so my taste is trash. I know this.

I think I’ve just lowered my expectations so that the most I can be let down these days is “meh.”

But that’s the point. I mean, I also love “The Room”.

It’s ok to like really bad movies. I love LOTS of bad movies. I love those Jean-Claude Van Damme movies for instance. I really do!

But I KNOW they’re bad. I don’t come off pretending to be an avant-garde film critic and saying “you think it’s bad because you don’t understand the movie”. No, they’re bad. Awful. And I know it.

I don’t pretend they’re the next “Citizen Kane”.

Never seen any Jean-Claude Van Damme movies, are they as bad-good as Hercules and Xena?

I didn’t realise people thought they were connoisseurs because they watched the new star wars. lol Looks like I’m completely out of the loop.

No offense, but your head is in the sand.
It was widely publicized when the movie released that Hamill said “Luke was not himself in TLJ” and he told Rian before shooting how he felt.
A few days later Disney started blaming Mark Hamill for TLJ not selling as many tickets and MH was forces to rescind his statement.
This is not unlike 2 years ago when Lucas was asked what he thought of TFA and he responded that he “regretted selling his baby to white slavers”
Disney threatened him and he also retracted his statement. and since that Lucas’ “opinion” of Rogue one and last jedi was “lovely film, thanks”
At the end of the day, star wars is a job for Hamill. He has a family. He needs to continue to get work. Disney is famous for its blacklist in LA.

Well Lucas probably wasn’t lying about Rogue One, since it is indeed a great film. We all know how Hamill feels about Luke Skywalker in TLJ. He hates it. You can tell by the 100 different times that he said that in various interviews. Retracting that statement doesn’t change much, which I am not even sure he did.

[OP is Fred G]

I like R1 but didn’t think it was great but whatever. R1 is interesting to me in another way since most everyone likes it but ignores that KK was also in charge of it. Not saying you are, John, just mentioning R1 brought this to my mind. In particular, the Darth Vader scene, among others, was added when the “studio” wanted changes and I think we know who the “studio” means. And I can say that though it was clearly fan service that moment was awesome.

And I agree, I never saw an actual retraction by Hamill just a change in direction. Since he’s someone who cares very much about SW and seems like a good person in general, I wouldn’t be surprised if he legit did that on his own when he started to see the attention his comments got. Even though it appears he definitely disagreed with Rian Johnson’s choices I don’t doubt he still likes and respects him and doesn’t want to piss on his shoes.

I’m going to be that guy.
Yes be prepared.
I thought Rogue One was not that great, it was okay, average.
There I said it.
I loved Vader’s scenes, and visually it was amazing, the space battle was great.
But the rest of it was meh, really meh.
Think the characters weren’t developed very well.
Never really cared for any of them.
They at the end were doing a suicide mission and when they started dying off I just shrugged.
I never went oh no that character has died, I just didn’t care.
And the droid K-2SO was all wrong, putting comedy character in a war film just felt out of place.
It would be like putting one liner comedy into Saving Private Ryan, just doesn’t work.
When he died I was thinking ‘good, finally’.

But I suppose when compared to TLJ then it’s fucking epic.

[OP is Fred G]

Most of those reasons for not liking it are the ones that made me just “Like It” as in when asked about it I usually respond, “Huh? R1? Yeah, it was pretty good” with a shoulder shrug and avoidance of further conversation about it because I have little interest…lol.

Yip same, I watched at the cinema and then at home sat through half of it and got up and did something else.
Look at those new Star Trek movies with Chris Pine, they are way more enjoyable than any the recent Star Wars films and I never watched the Trek TV shows but I’d rather sit and watch Star Trek Into Darkness 1000 times than TLJ ever again.

The best test to what these new movies are worth is checking how many times you go back to re-watch them.

Just think:

How many times did you go back and watch the OT?

How many times did you go back and watch the Prequels again, dodgy as they may be? (I actually love the Prequels, in a guilty pleasure sort of way).

Then you tell me how many times you go back to watch Rogue 1, TFW or TLJ again. Screw everybody else’s opinion, do the math on your own tastes. And I did actually enjoy the new ones under Disney’s umbrella. But I re-watched R1 and TFW exactly ONCE.

TLJ I will NEVER watch again. And after TLJ, TFW lost all appeal to me, because TLJ ruined it. Yes, TLJ was so bad it actually ruined the previous film, because nothing makes sense anymore lol…

Honestly I would watch every movie except TLJ. That is the one Star Wars movie to date I will never pay another dime to see. I have watched all of the movies many, many times and do enjoy them for what they are. TLJ however killed any desire I had to see any future Star Wars movies. To each their own.

Of course. I’m not trying to tell other people not to watch these movies. If you like any or all of the above good on you.

What I DON’T want is people telling ME I didn’t enjoy TLJ because I didn’t understand it. Or it was not what I expected. I understood it just fine. And yes, I expected a coherent story. Stupid of me, I know.

[OP is Paulo Gomes. Praise to our Night Mother, she watches over us all.]

[OP is Fred G]

FYI…awesome sig but if you are using it in any way to guard against your comment being botted put it on the top. They must only copy a certain number of characters before cutting off the rest based on some of the posts I’ve seen them make.

Very interesting thread, loved hearing people opinions, I’m bit late to the party so I won’t interpose, but I agree with the majority of what you’re all saying about TLJ.
One thing sadly saw no love for Revenge of the Sith. I wasn’t a huge fan of it on release, but it has now become my favourite in the series as I feel it is multi layered. (I’ve probably opened a sink hole of derision for myself here :P)
Anyway I just thought I’d drop this here as I heard it this morning on the radio during my commute to work and about drove my car off the road in astonishment.
Best Film…..Best Director……and weirdly not best sci-fi (given the first 2 listed here).


Well, this doesn’t surprise me. And “Best Visual Effects” is deserved. Aside from an odd-looking Yoda, TLJ is a tour-de-force. Visually and sound-wise you can’t fault this movie.

“Best Costume Design” is fine I guess. It depends on which films it was up against. But I think the Prequels were superior in costume design.

The rest is rubbish. And the fact it doesn’t surprise me is because people’s standards have dropped so low it’s hard to even have a conversation with some.

I see it in music all the time. People come up to me going “have you watched so and so? They’re amazing!”

Sometimes they ARE amazing. Most times unfortunately they’re terrible. And then I have to proceed explaining exactly why they are terrible, which doesn’t go over very well. The singer is out of key, and sometimes (many times???) when he’s not out of key he’s lip syncing… Or the WHOLE BAND isn’t REALLY playing, there’s a backing track going on. Most times there are more dancers on stage than musicians… Which they don’t even need, because they’re lip syncing to a pre-recorded track… omfg…

I usually just nod and say: “yeah, they’re great” and move on. Not worth the trouble.

A sign of the times my friend. Sign of the times…

Are you kidding??? ROTS is AWESOME! In reality it’s the culmination of an anti-climactic series of 3 movies GL did. People miss that fact many times.

The Prequels are anti-climactic. You KNOW what’s gonna happen. You know who is Darth Vader. You know the Empire is going to win. You know it ALL.

Where GL really went wrong, in my opinion, was in putting so much blue or green screen stuff in there. It really doesn’t look good, and it hasn’t aged well.

But the story is good! Sure, the acting is wooden, the love story is meh… But the fundamental story is good. In fact, in TLJ we had exactly the reverse: great visuals, very good acting… But no freaking story!

Really, people seem to miss the Roman numerals at the beginning of the movie. There’s a reason it’s Episode VIII. And when you start a series of 3 movies WITHOUT AN ALREADY WRITTEN STORY…

Yeah couldn’t agree more although I prefer the saber battle in TESB over ROTJ, both have great climactic ends but that ‘special’ line from TESB wins it for me, with as you say ROTS a strong third.
Not many will argue that Hayden Christensen despite his best attempts didn’t make a good Anakin, it was a role that was too big for him imho, and even acting stalwarts like Natalie Portman (she seemed to struggle in an awkward love story) and fellow scot Ewan McGregor didn’t stand out.
Only Ian McDiarmid (yet another scot, born a stones throw from me in Carnoustie :P) stood out as the excellent Palpatine/Emperor and embraced the role fully.
To me it was the superbly tragic story of Anakin’s turn from light to dark in a bid to save the one he loved that made it a great film.
Well written and planned, unlike what we’re getting from Rian Johnson’s efforts.
I just can’t fathom why Disney are basically letting him have carte blanche over the last two films in the franchise. His Filmography is less than impressive and he’s ACTUALLY making it up as he goes along.
I mean……..WTF?
Oh and don’t worry about your English, it’s superb, in fact better than mine although we do like to ‘play about with it a bit’ up here.

I’ll have to slightly disagree there Abby. I think McGregor was the best thing about the prequels. Him and McDiarmid of course. But if not for Ewan the movies would be so much inferior. Just my take on the matter. It’s not a fact, just opinions.

The only reason I put the lightsaber fight in ROTJ above the one in TESB is because in ROTJ we see them fighting as equals. Or maybe Luke is slightly above his father, being younger and not half machine. Anyways, it’s the only time we see Vader taking a beating… And it happens in the end of the OT… Not like Kylo, who gets his ass handed to him from the first time he fights Rey, an untrained… I was going to say “padawan”, but she’s not even a Padawan! Whatever…

For emotional content alone, of course the fight in TESB takes the prize.

JJ Abrams directed TFA. Rian Johnson did TLJ, as we all know and hate. Now JJ is coming back to try and fix the outstanding “work” RJ did on TLJ… I don’t think he can do anything after Ep VIII, and frankly I don’t care. The next time I spend my money on a Star Wars movie will be to see “Kenobi”, if and when it comes out.

And ONLY because I am a HUGE Ewan McGregor fan. Long before he ever did anything Star Wars related. I won’t go to see “Solo”, I won’t see Ep IX.

I’d sooner return to play TOR than go see a movie done by these people loooool…

Exactly. Jar Jar Abrams coming out and saying “If you didn’t like TLJ then you are racist” is such utter bullshit it is sad. They fucked up, end of story.

[OP is Fred G]

I still think that AotC is the worst SW movie. At least TLJ had some artistic visual appeal (and better acting.) With that being said, I’ll watch AotC before I ever watch TLJ again because Obi-Wan. But really this is like saying piece of dog shit #1 smells slightly less offensive than piece of dog shit #2. I’d rather not be making a choice between different dog shits.

[OP is Paulo Gomes. Walk in the shadow of fear, and bring glory to our Dread Father.]

That’s interesting. I’ve thought about it many times. And for me TLJ still takes the prize as worst film. Because the story is so bad no amount of better acting or visual effects can counter that.

But TLJ is more of a symptom of things than a one off example. There are countless examples of how film craft has been reduced to its minimal efforts. The film industry is simply not putting out good quality stuff. Not like it used to. You just have to look at all the reboots that they produce. Nothing shouts out lack of inspiration than that.

But that could also be said about the music industry. And boy, do I have strong opinions on that. But that is so far remove from the topics this Forum covers that I won’t rant in that particular direction…

[OP is Fred G]

There are good films out there, they just increasingly don’t make it to theaters or spend little time there.

I think the fretting over reboots and sequels is a bit overblown and ignores other times when the movie industry relied on this tactic. Look back through the years and you’ll find entire eras where studios churned out low budget crap with contract actors at a pace of multiple films a year, critics bemoaning the ruination of youth due to film series like Friday the 13th, and decades worth of horror (‘70s and ‘80s especially) and sci-fi garbage (particularly the ‘50s and ‘60s), and bad comedies ((‘80s and ‘90s.) Somehow the industry survived and people look back at this garbage with fondness. Almost every time I watch an ‘80s comedy “classic” I’m amazed at how bad it is. Not funny and bereft of any artistic merit.

However, this current era does have something theaters never had to contend with in the past which is the ability to watch content on tablets and phones and to watch at home on very large screens with excellent sound for a reasonable price. I think good content will always be available but where it is found may change or already has based on the technology available to access media.

Interesting. I think AOTC is fairly solid.
I would say TPM is kind of a throw away movie because it is the lease needed. The Midiclorian line, and the line about him having no father is the only thing that really carries over into ROTS if you want to understand the origin of Anakin.

IMO the prequels should have started with AOTC,
ROTS would be second but end at the attack on the temple.
and the third film should have been devoted to order 66 and Vader and Boba hunting the main jeid one by one instead of rushing it into a little montage.

I like R1 OK but think the Vader scenes are gratuitous and unnecessary and the movie would be better without fan service scenes like those, Leia at the end, and the dudes from the ANH cantina cameo.

The main characters were totally forgettable, especially the ‘bad guy’.
I actually had to google him as I’d forgotten his name, you should NEVER have to do that with the ‘bad guy’ in a Star Wars film, they should be instantly memorable.
That said it was mainly good film, the main story was good and the battle/space battles well above average and well thought out.
Importantly overall, it made sense unlike TLJ.
Oh….and I actually liked K-2SO, the least artificial of the actors imho :P.
As for Vader’s return?
I loved it, it fitted in well and made the film for me.

Well it’s the only good Disney Star Wars movie, and the only one not trash, so….

[OP is Fred G]

To me there are films that are important to cinema’s history and transcend mere entertainment. Those are masterpieces and they can come from all genres. If you feel R1 is such a film than more power to you. I disagree but it’s one of those things that is personal to the viewer and has no way of being proven with the exception of perhaps the way a film is viewed generations later.

There’s also the definition of “masterpiece” itself. To me it’s like putting a film into a HoF. To others it just means “it was the best film I saw this summer.”

You can shove the last jedi as deep as you want clown i don’t have an issue with that…happy?

[OP is Fred G]

It’s a futile argument to tell someone their favorite films aren’t great but yours are. It also just draws a line in the sand and immediately makes you sound like somewhat of a prat.

I happen to agree on 2001: A Space Odyssey but there are plenty of people who think it is boring and, regardless of any points you or I could make, that is their personal reaction to it and it is valid. People’s reactions to films even change over the years and something they think is genius can later become average or a film they hated can become a favorite.

Wrong moron not my films, they are classic stuff wether your like them or not, even if your favorite movie is the last jedi, fine by me…still you can’t change facts.

[OP is Fred G]

Your eloquent reply has completely changed my mind about “classic stuff.”

[OP is Fred G]

Lucas’ comment was ridiculous. He also made billions off of the sale and I’m not someone who suddenly acts like the prequels are genius and Lucas is a martyr to be pitied. I’m tired of his moping around and patting himself on the back. Nobody forced him to sell.

As for Hamill, there’s not bashing the film and then there’s bashing fans…which he’s been doing and just recently did again. He can kiss my ass for it. And if he signed a contract that says he has to bash fans who don’t like the film he can doubly kiss my ass.

“billions” seems like a lot to us… But he actually sold Lucasfilm for a years worth of starwars profit. It averages 4 billion in merchandise a year. It was way undervalued.

And, well, I’m not sure what “bashing” from Hamill you’re talking about. The ones where he said he was angry at fans for how they treated 10 year old Jake lloyd? he wasnt wrong…

[OP is Fred G]

Awwww, either…

A) Some 12 year old is angry posting on Dulfy tonight because they didn’t get enough likes on social media or

B) One of the usual mouth breathers on here is hiding behind the Guest tag.

Eat a Snickers and go away.

Why indeed. But you were vague and a google didnt turn anything else up LOL
its all good.

You’ve basically just said people shouldn’t be hard on Hamill for giving up his integrity because he wants to get paid.
Erm na, he can get praise by sticking to his honest opinion regardless if it costs him money but by backtracking and thinking of the cash then he can’t complain when he gets criticised (and rightly so).

He can’t have it both ways.

Yeah, but I think its more about survival. They likely threatened to sue him for “sales lost” I actually have something from his personal starwars collection because he started selling it off which tellls me he might not be in a good “cash” place. Its easy to judge someones integrity from here, but you might do the same if you were in his actual position.

I don’t doubt his motivation.
Money talks.
If I was in his position I would have likely done the same.
But I’m not going to give him credit for such an act because he’s getting paid.

If he stuck to his guns and went ”sod the money, TLJ sucks” I would praise him to the heavens for being honest.
But he went ”sod the fans, I want paid, TLJ is awesome” , well in that case Mark loses credit.
Like I said he can’t have it both ways.

Exactly, also bear in mind Fred that Hamill doesn’t own the character “Luke Skywalker” that pretty much belongs to Disney as it is mentioned on the Bonus disc. So he had two choices from my point of view: 1) Don’t participate in the new trilogy, not receive a single penny $$ and Disney killing his character or 2) Participate in the new trilogy despite all the mediocrity but win a bunch of millions just like Harrison Ford….i will choose option 2 too always…

I would love to know if Keith realizes what a state his decisions have left the game in. Hell even die hard white knights that attacked any poster that said anything negative are now posting how they are off to play ESO or WOW.

Really guys one cant talk seriously with some of you guys, sooner or later you start to behave like a bunch of retards so….let’s do that…

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